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Post by Cindy on Jul 7, 2016 10:27:32 GMT -5
Sounds good to me. She may have gotten busy or perhaps is sick.
I wanted to add a little more about nations too. God ordained that there would be nations (remember the "table of nations" that we looked at that showed who the founding fathers of them were?) He also ordained government for those nations and that we are all to obey our governments. In fact, there will be nations on the earth even during the Millennial Kingdom, and the nation of Israel will be the head of them all at that time. Part of the reason I had us look at the table of nations was because it's part of God's plan for the world, for both gentiles and Israel, now and through the tribulation and millennial kingdom.
So what does God do with Israel now that the Church has the job of telling the world about Him? Remember when we talked about Daniel 9:24–27?
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fearnot
Living With Pain
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Post by fearnot on Jul 7, 2016 17:37:24 GMT -5
I am thinking of Romans where it says something to the effect that our salvation (and commission to do what the Jews were supposed to do), will make them jealous and envious, and begin to draw some of them to the Lord...is that what you were asking?
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Post by Cindy on Jul 11, 2016 9:45:53 GMT -5
I am thinking of Romans where it says something to the effect that our salvation (and commission to do what the Jews were supposed to do), will make them jealous and envious, and begin to draw some of them to the Lord...is that what you were asking?
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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Post by fearnot on Jul 11, 2016 15:36:25 GMT -5
Awww thank you!
Eva wrote to us in the accountability thread, about why she hasn't been with us for a few days.
One thing is, she is going to be tested at work, and has to study for that.
But I think she said this weekend she may be free..... also spoke a little about her study in John.
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Post by Cindy on Jul 12, 2016 10:00:54 GMT -5
Yeah I saw it. I've got to get at least a little done here though. In Romans 11 we are told that God did not reject Israel when they rejected Jesus. He did punish them, but He has not rejected them. He couldn't do so because if He had, it would have made Him a liar, and God does not lie. So all the promises God made to Israel will be fulfilled, and that will happen during the Millennial Kingdom. In fact, that's what the Millennial Kingdom is all about. If anyone has any doubts about Israel's status in God's eyes, you should read Romans 11 and study it. If you read Deuteronomy 28:1-14, you'll see many promises God made Israel IF she was obedient to Him. Obviously, she has not been obedient, and therefore instead of blessings, she's received and still receiving the curses which are listed starting in Deuteronomy 28:15. However, notice what God says here, toward the end of the list of blessings: “The LORD will establish you as his holy people, as he promised you on oath, if you keep the commands of the LORD your God and walk in his ways. Then all the peoples on earth will see that you are called by the name of the LORD, and they will fear you.” (Deuteronomy 28:9–10) Then see what happens in the next chapter: “Moses summoned all the Israelites and said to them: Your eyes have seen all that the LORD did in Egypt to Pharaoh, to all his officials and to all his land. With your own eyes you saw those great trials, those miraculous signs and great wonders. But to this day the LORD has not given you a mind that understands or eyes that see or ears that hear.” (Deuteronomy 29:2–4) Then he begins to tell them that they are to enter a covenant with God: “All of you are standing today in the presence of the LORD your God—your leaders and chief men, your elders and officials, and all the other men of Israel, together with your children and your wives, and the aliens living in your camps who chop your wood and carry your water. You are standing here in order to enter into a covenant with the LORD your God, a covenant the LORD is making with you this day and sealing with an oath, to confirm you this day as his people, that he may be your God as he promised you and as he swore to your fathers, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. I am making this covenant, with its oath, not only with you who are standing here with us today in the presence of the LORD our God but also with those who are not here today.” (Deuteronomy 29:10–15) But then, Moses tells them that he already knows they will not obey God and because of that, they will be thrown out of the land and have to deal with all the curses! In the next chapter though, the Lord tells them that when all this has happened to them, and they begin to turn back to Him and begin to obey Him with all their hearts, then God will return them to their land. Furthermore He says: “The LORD your God will circumcise your hearts and the hearts of your descendants, so that you may love him with all your heart and with all your soul, and live.” (Deuteronomy 30:6) This last part has not happened yet, but will happen toward the end of the tribulation.
We know that God is returning his people Israel to their land, which is an amazing fulfillment of prophecy. But it also confuses many people. They think that all Israel should be obeying God now since He is returning them to the land. But that's not true. God has not yet opened their minds to understand Him, and so they can't yet believe. God explained how this would happen to His Prophet Ezekiel. Please read Ezekiel 37:1–28 so you'll know the prophecy and we can discuss it next. (Barbara, I'm sure you can take your time reading this as Eva hasn't even seen any of this yet, so we'll probably have to wait awhile before we can go any further.)
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fearnot
Living With Pain
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Post by fearnot on Jul 12, 2016 16:50:43 GMT -5
I may reread them, as I read Romans 11 last night, and Ezekiel just now.
I have a question about it all ready but I will wait and reread and this next time pray and ask the Lord to open my eyes to understand the dry bones part.
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Post by Cindy on Jul 13, 2016 10:20:16 GMT -5
great! Feel free to ask anything any time hon. I'm going to try and wait another day or two before explaining the dry bones prophecy though.
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fearnot
Living With Pain
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Post by fearnot on Jul 13, 2016 15:51:59 GMT -5
Okay, I will wait :-)
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Post by Cindy on Jul 14, 2016 11:23:10 GMT -5
I'm sorry this thread doesn't flow well like it should, but having to keep waiting, I lose my train of thought, so that by the time I start writing again, I have trouble getting back to what I was originally talking about. On the other hand, because I have to wait or at least try to, it gives the Lord more time to remind me of different things that I should write about. It's funny how reading the gospels or Acts, which is what I'm reading now, can teach and remind you about things we're talking about in this thread.
The Lord brought me back to the table of nations once again last night and then again this morning during my study of Acts 2. I keep thinking about how Eva said she didn't think God was concerned about nations anymore and that thought horrifies me. Acts 2 is all about the reversal of God's judgement at the tower of Babel where He confused the languages. In Acts 2:1–13 He sends the Holy Spirit who causes everyone to be able to understand what's being said in their own language. This is a foretaste of what we will have for eternity. Remember that after God confused the languages, we were then told about the table of nations. Here in Acts 2:1–13, that is also duplicated, for after the Holy Spirit causes the people to understand everything in their own language, we are again given a list of nations. This is like an update on the table of nations we studied originally.
The reason I was so horrified that someone would think that God wasn't interested in Nations anymore is because of what Satan wants to do. He wants to be like God and be worshiped instead of God. Satan is the prince of this world, and is also called the god of this age,and the ruler of the kingdom of the air.(John 12:31; John 14:30; John 16:11; 2 Corinthians 4:4; Ephesians 2:2) Do you remember how Satan tempted our Lord at the beginning of His ministry? One of his temptations was to offer all the kingdoms (nations) of the world to Jesus if Jesus would just worship him. This is ironic because all the nations of the world belong to Jesus anyway, since He is God, but what Satan was really offering the Lord was to allow him to skip the crucifixion and have the nations as His right away instead of having to wait. Jesus did not do what Satan wanted and thus saved us all from a horrible, fate! Because Satan is the ruler of this world, he is the one who makes up the worldview that all unbelievers have, the view that we all held about this world before we were saved. Satan is the one behind the idea that we all need to have a good self esteem, and be self confident and take care of ourselves before others (the opposite of what God teaches of course); he's behind the idea that all people are basically good, and all the other things we've all been told and taught since we were babies.
God had many reasons for ordaining that we would have nations, but one of those reasons was to protect us from Satan. As long as there were nations, one person could not cause the whole world to sin. Satan has a number of goals that he wants to attain, and one of the biggest ones is that he wants to be king of the world in reality and not just in the spiritual realm. Therefore he has put into the minds of men that nations are a bad thing and that we would all be better off if the world was united under one person. To put it another way, Satan is the author of globalism. He wants to rule this world and make everyone worship him instead of God. To do that, he has to get rid of national boundaries. To unite the world he has put into men's minds that there should be only one world currency instead of a bunch of different ones from each nation. He tells men that will make it easier for them to make money and to spend money. No borders will make trade and travel much easier he tells us. Having only one form of money will make the economy much more stable, he whispers to men. Finally he tells men that the biggest problem the world has is religion and he reminds people of all the bad things that have been done in the name of different religions over the years. He doesn't want to do away with religion entirely, because ultimately he wants to make people worship him. He starts by telling people that the world could finally be at peace with one another if there was only one world religion. He makes up a new religion by mixing together the elements of all the worlds religions and offers it to the world as a way to stop war and terror and to unite mankind. Eventually he will have no more nations, but instead one world supposedly united by all having the same form of money and the same false religion.
As you can see then, the whole idea of globalism, of one united world, is not from God, it's from Satan. It's what Satan wants so he can destroy us. But Satan and the man he has prepared for this time, the antichrist, are very good at making people believe his lies, and making people think that all he wants is peace, when the truth is that what he wants is to cause humanity to worship him and to destroy all who refuse to do so. This is what he will do during the Tribulation. We are seeing the preparations for this even now.
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fearnot
Living With Pain
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Post by fearnot on Jul 14, 2016 18:45:07 GMT -5
Yes, the globalists were dealt a blow with Brexit, on the other hand, I have no doubt satan will find a way to use it to his advantage.
But like you said, people will really believe that a one world united will stop wars, end invading countries for their 'valuables be it oil or whatever, one money system ( be it a chip or whatever) will make everything sooooo much easier, and the mantra about all the wars religion has caused has been drilled into kids from practically their first day at school...
how ever being spiritual, or new age, or channeling, magic, witchcraft, connecting with the 'god' within etc. is all A-OK!
Interesting enough tho, is even the 'old' guard religions, Hindu, Buddhism/yoga, Islam...are given some slack....
tho Islam, for example, actually does cause lots of murders, non-believers still blindly say, its all Christianity that is 'hateful' and causes wars etc.
And yet, day by day by day, Jihadists murder 50, 60, 100 people a day....but one would be hard pressed ( impossible really) to find any Christians doing so daily.
Sadly, even today, in France over 70 were killed and perhaps 150 injured and the count might yet go up.
I am not saying that even a true Christian could not do something like kill someone, but it is not a main tenet of Christianity.
Nevertheless, the devil has blinded unbelievers....and evil and terror seems to be getting worse by the day.
People will more and more being wanting safety and peace, so things like no borders, no counties, just one religion ( but not Christianity), one money unit will sound better and better.
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Post by Cindy on Jul 18, 2016 11:13:12 GMT -5
I'm not sure that the globalists have been dealt a blow by Britain bailing out... I have a feeling that they have a plan to bring everything together in a different way, and may be using Britain to bring it about even. We'll just have to wait and see....
Still no Eva....
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Post by evafromgreece on Jul 18, 2016 13:26:21 GMT -5
"In other words, God no longer dwelt in the Temple in Jerusalem, but instead dwelt inside every believer, no matter what race or nation they came from, or whether they were free or slaves. "
Hello guys :) I believe we were saying the same thing, but I expressed this wrong. I meant that a Jew could be part of the church, know Jesus and get saved like any other person.
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Post by evafromgreece on Jul 18, 2016 13:53:25 GMT -5
I'm sorry this thread doesn't flow well like it should, but having to keep waiting, I lose my train of thought, so that by the time I start writing again, I have trouble getting back to what I was originally talking about. On the other hand, because I have to wait or at least try to, it gives the Lord more time to remind me of different things that I should write about. It's funny how reading the gospels or Acts, which is what I'm reading now, can teach and remind you about things we're talking about in this thread.
The Lord brought me back to the table of nations once again last night and then again this morning during my study of Acts 2. I keep thinking about how Eva said she didn't think God was concerned about nations anymore and that thought horrifies me. Acts 2 is all about the reversal of God's judgement at the tower of Babel where He confused the languages. In Acts 2:1–13 He sends the Holy Spirit who causes everyone to be able to understand what's being said in their own language. This is a foretaste of what we will have for eternity. Remember that after God confused the languages, we were then told about the table of nations. Here in Acts 2:1–13, that is also duplicated, for after the Holy Spirit causes the people to understand everything in their own language, we are again given a list of nations. This is like an update on the table of nations we studied originally.
The reason I was so horrified that someone would think that God wasn't interested in Nations anymore is because of what Satan wants to do. He wants to be like God and be worshiped instead of God. Satan is the prince of this world, and is also called the god of this age,and the ruler of the kingdom of the air.(John 12:31; John 14:30; John 16:11; 2 Corinthians 4:4; Ephesians 2:2) Do you remember how Satan tempted our Lord at the beginning of His ministry? One of his temptations was to offer all the kingdoms (nations) of the world to Jesus if Jesus would just worship him. This is ironic because all the nations of the world belong to Jesus anyway, since He is God, but what Satan was really offering the Lord was to allow him to skip the crucifixion and have the nations as His right away instead of having to wait. Jesus did not do what Satan wanted and thus saved us all from a horrible, fate! Because Satan is the ruler of this world, he is the one who makes up the worldview that all unbelievers have, the view that we all held about this world before we were saved. Satan is the one behind the idea that we all need to have a good self esteem, and be self confident and take care of ourselves before others (the opposite of what God teaches of course); he's behind the idea that all people are basically good, and all the other things we've all been told and taught since we were babies.
God had many reasons for ordaining that we would have nations, but one of those reasons was to protect us from Satan. As long as there were nations, one person could not cause the whole world to sin. Satan has a number of goals that he wants to attain, and one of the biggest ones is that he wants to be king of the world in reality and not just in the spiritual realm. Therefore he has put into the minds of men that nations are a bad thing and that we would all be better off if the world was united under one person. To put it another way, Satan is the author of globalism. He wants to rule this world and make everyone worship him instead of God. To do that, he has to get rid of national boundaries. To unite the world he has put into men's minds that there should be only one world currency instead of a bunch of different ones from each nation. He tells men that will make it easier for them to make money and to spend money. No borders will make trade and travel much easier he tells us. Having only one form of money will make the economy much more stable, he whispers to men. Finally he tells men that the biggest problem the world has is religion and he reminds people of all the bad things that have been done in the name of different religions over the years. He doesn't want to do away with religion entirely, because ultimately he wants to make people worship him. He starts by telling people that the world could finally be at peace with one another if there was only one world religion. He makes up a new religion by mixing together the elements of all the worlds religions and offers it to the world as a way to stop war and terror and to unite mankind. Eventually he will have no more nations, but instead one world supposedly united by all having the same form of money and the same false religion.
As you can see then, the whole idea of globalism, of one united world, is not from God, it's from Satan. It's what Satan wants so he can destroy us. But Satan and the man he has prepared for this time, the antichrist, are very good at making people believe his lies, and making people think that all he wants is peace, when the truth is that what he wants is to cause humanity to worship him and to destroy all who refuse to do so. This is what he will do during the Tribulation. We are seeing the preparations for this even now.
Oh! Maybe I was misunderstood! I didnt mean that nation should not exist , or that globalization is good. I meant that anyone could be saved , no matter where he is from. |
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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Post by fearnot on Jul 18, 2016 19:27:23 GMT -5
Hi Eva:
Yeah! There you are :-)
How did your test go?
Well even with a language misunderstanding, it worked out, because Cindy elaborated more, and I always learn something new, as I am sure you do too!
Happy you are back!
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Post by Cindy on Jul 22, 2016 13:06:09 GMT -5
"In other words, God no longer dwelt in the Temple in Jerusalem, but instead dwelt inside every believer, no matter what race or nation they came from, or whether they were free or slaves. " Hello guys :) I believe we were saying the same thing, but I expressed this wrong. I meant that a Jew could be part of the church, know Jesus and get saved like any other person. Oh! Maybe I was misunderstood! I didnt mean that nation should not exist , or that globalization is good. I meant that anyone could be saved , no matter where he is from. |
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Post by Cindy on Jul 26, 2016 11:34:15 GMT -5
I had to come back and figure out where I was lol. Anyway, next we'll be looking at the transition from Israel to the Church, what that means, and when it happened and how it affects the rapture, tribulation, and millennial kingdom.
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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Post by fearnot on Jul 26, 2016 22:09:33 GMT -5
Sounds good! Thank you.
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Post by Cindy on Jul 27, 2016 10:24:09 GMT -5
We know that God had raised Israel up to know His Word and His Will, so they could teach the rest of the world about Him, so that the Gentiles could also be saved. The problem was that Israel didn't do that. Of course, God knew that would happen, and He planned for that as well. Even so, He still gave them a chance to be all that He had created them to be when Jesus came the first time. That to me is amazing, since most humans would have simply written them off and had nothing more to do with them. Another reason we can be very glad that we're not God and He is! Jesus constantly called the nation to repentance so that He could bring in the Millennial Kingdom then, but as we know, they rejected Him, compounding their sin.
What God does next with Israel should be very comforting for all of us, especially any who are ever afraid that they could lose their salvation. God had been guiding and teaching Israel since choosing them to be a nation of priests, for about 1,475 years before Jesus started His ministry. Because of all the knowledge they had about God, they were the very best representatives of mankind at the time Jesus came. There was no one even close to them in their understanding of God and His ways, even though they'd messed a bunch of it up over time. So God sent His Son to them, and remember, Jesus only went to the children of Israel first. He did not teach any Gentiles when He first began His ministry, because salvation came from the Jew's and it was their right to be given the chance to be saved so they could then do their job as a dedicated and consecrated nation of priests and take the message of salvation to the rest of the world, as He had always planned. The world would have been placed under Israel's rule in order to make it easier for them to teach the nations. In other words, if Israel had accepted Jesus as their Savior, He would have begun the Millennial Kingdom then. He still would have had to die first and be raised from the dead, but after that, instead of starting the church like He did, He would have begun the Millennial Kingdom.
But the Jew's were stubborn and wanted to do things their way instead of God's way, just like we do. Because they didn't want to give up their positions of power, because of their pride and stubbornness, the Nation officially rejected Jesus as their Messiah when they declared He was doing miracles by the power of Satan. (Matt 12:22–37; Mark 3:19–30) It was after this that Jesus began teaching in parables and also began teaching the Gentiles as well. Israel had lost their chance as a Nation. Individuals could still be saved, but the nation's chance to have all Israel saved and begin the Millennial Kingdom then, was gone. They had instead compounded stored up wrath for themselves by rejecting the Son of God. And so Jesus also began to teach His Disciples and prepare them for their job as head of the Church when He was gone.
In Acts 2 we're told about the day of Pentecost when God sent the Holy Spirit to the disciples and they began to preach powerfully in other languages. These were known languages as the people who were in Jerusalem to celebrate the feast, all recognized their own language being spoken by the disciples. The languages the Spirit gave them were actually a sign of judgment to unbelieving Israel, and showed that from now on God's people would come from all nations. It marked the transition from Israel to the Church. We're shown this in 1 Corinthians 14:21–22 among other scriptures. Let me share what MacArthur says about this as I think it will help you understand it better -but I'll put it in my own words so it will be easy for Eva to understand it.
Paul was quoting Isaiah 28:11-12 in 1 Cor 14:21-22, but he put it in his own words instead of quoting it exactly. He explains that many centuries before the Lord had predicted that one day He would use men who were foreigners who spoke other languages as a sign to unbelieving Israel, who "will not listen to Me." These "strange tongues" or languages are what they knew as the gift of languages, given only as a sign to unbelieving Israel. That sign included cursing, blessing and authority. To emphasize the cursing, Paul quoted Isaiah's words of warning to Judah at the time of the judgment from Assyria. At that time too the leaders rejected what Isaiah said to them, so they were told that the time would come when they would hear Assyrian, a language they could not understand, indicating judgment. Jeremiah also spoke something similar of the Babylonians who would come and destroy Judah (Jeremiah 5:15). What both Isaiah and Jeremiah said, had already come true by the time Jesus came to them. Therefore, when the apostles spoke in foreign languages that day on Pentecost, the Jews should have known that the judgment prophesied and historically fulfilled, first by the Assyrians and then by the Babylonian captivity, was about to fall on them again because they had rejected their Messiah, including the destruction of Jerusalem again, just as it had happened in 586 bc by the Babylonians.
As Peter continued to preach the gospel to the people that day, he warned them to disassociate themselves with Israel ("this corrupt generation")and be saved. “With many other words he warned them; and he pleaded with them, “Save yourselves from this corrupt generation.”” (Acts 2:40) It was too late for the nation, but as I've said before, individuals could still be saved. Keep in mind however that this was not an easy decision for them. One very good thing they had that we don't, is a very strong sense of community and family. To believe in Jesus could very well mean losing their families and friends and possibly their business, their way of making money even! To ask the same thing of us would be to ask us to pack whatever we could carry, and leave our families, our job, our church, and friends, and never, ever speak to any of them again. That's the choice they had to make because it could turn out that way for them, and did for many of them. They were very grateful to discover that God had given them a new family of brothers and sisters in Christ. Honestly, even today when a Jewish person chooses to believe in Jesus, they are often disowned by their families and community no matter where they are living- whether it's in the US, Europe, or anywhere else.
There's a couple of things we need to be aware of about the judgment that came down on Israel for rejecting Jesus. First, as we have already discussed, the more knowledge a person has, the more that God expects from them, and the harsher they are judged. That's one reason why teachers are judged more harshly then others - that and the fact that they're responsible to teaching the Truth. Israel had ALL the knowledge available about God at that time. No one knew more than Israel did, therefore their judgment would be very harsh after all the years of teaching they'd had.
Secondly, God judges sin more severely at the beginning of a new era in Salvation history. God killed Aaron's sons Nadab and Abihu for trying to present “false fire” to the Lord (Leviticus 10). This was at the very beginning when God had just established worship at the tabernacle for them while they wandered in the desert. He also had Achan killed for disobeying orders after Israel had entered the Promised Land (Joshua 7). In Acts 5, God kills Ananias and Sapphira for lying to the Holy Spirit. There are other examples, but the important thing to remember is that when God would establish a new era for the people, He would severely punish sin in order to show them that He was to be taken seriously, and also as a warning for us (1 Corinthians 10:11–12).
What's happened then to Israel? They are under God's judgment for their sins, in particularly the sin of rejecting their Messiah. God is disciplining them even today. Any Jew who accepts Jesus as their Messiah is saved and becomes a member of the Church, the Body of Christ. They are then no longer "Israel" for in the Chruch, we are told: “Here there is no Greek or Jew, circumcised or uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave or free, but Christ is all, and is in all.” (Colossians 3:11) When they become a Christian then, they are no longer under God's judgment of the law, but now under grace.
But God is not done with Israel. He has not thrown her away. Instead, He has basically put His dealings with Israel on hold while He focuses on getting the gentiles saved. The day will come soon though, when God will once again put His focus on Israel. When He does, they will go through a very hard time as part of their judgment, but it's also to cleanse them and conform them into the image of His priests, and the Godly Nation He intended them to be. At that time He will then keep all of His promises He ever made to Israel. As I said before, this should comfort us, because it shows us just how patient God is with us. He simply doesn't ever give up on us, even if we give up on Him! One way or another, He will conform us into the image of His Son. It is simply and totally impossible to lose your salvation!
This has gotten pretty long, so I'll stop here. Tomorrow, (or when the Lord gives me the time) we'll talk more about what happens and is currently happening to Israel, and hopefully, also the church, and what our part in all of this is.
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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Post by fearnot on Jul 27, 2016 18:13:10 GMT -5
That was so encouraging, the part about God never giving up on us!!!!
Thank you.
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Post by Cindy on Jul 31, 2016 10:47:41 GMT -5
Glad you liked it hon! You might also like All intercessors needed an intercessor. I know it doesn't sound like the same subject matter but it is lol. I really wanted to get back to this, but now it looks like it's going to be tomorrow at the earliest.
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Post by Cindy on Aug 1, 2016 12:29:55 GMT -5
Again, notice how God dealt and is dealing with Israel. He did not throw them away. He did discipline them and still is, but they have not lost their place in His eyes. He told them at the very start that He would make them a nation of priests, a holy nation, and that is exactly what He is going to do. Even though they have constantly sinned, constantly turned away from Him and gone their own way, (just like we do) He still plans on keeping every single promise He ever made to them. They WILL be saved and they will be a holy nation of priests! That should show us how He deals with us as well. God does not give up on us stubborn sinful humans, no matter what. Instead, He does whatever He has to in order to get us saved and once we are, He never, ever, let's us go. Think too of the fact that God intended from the very start that Gentiles be saved too. That was to be the whole purpose of Him teaching Israel. Since that didn't work out, God simply did it another way. He started the Church, and now Gentiles are saved too! That shows us too that we cannot cause God's plans to fail. For example, we often blame ourselves if we think that someone died or might die without knowing God and being saved. We think that because we didn't say or do something differently or well enough that it's our fault. That's simply not so. God never counts on us to do His job, or any job, even those we think He's given to us. He knows who belongs to Him and He will make absolutely sure that person gets saved even if He has to do it all by Himself, by sending them dreams, visions or speaking to their heart, etc. I'm not saying that lets us off the hook if we sinned, only that we cannot blame ourselves if another person is not saved. God does not leave something that important up to sinful people like all of us.
Notice again too that before Jesus started the Church, it was to have been Israel's job to bring the Gentiles into God's Kingdom. It was only because they didn't do their job that God began the Church so we could also be saved. God never intended for us to be left out of His Kingdom and didn't allow that to happen. Notice again too that Jesus did all He could to get the Jew's to accept Him so that they could be the ones to bring us into the Kingdom. It was only because they refused that He began the church. Right now, as I said before, Israel is under God's judgement for refusing their Messiah and because of that, He has taken His hand of protection away from them for the time being. Now we have to go back to when we discussed Daniel 9:24–26. This tells us about God's timing for everything that would happen to Israel, including what would happen after Jesus was killed. Look at verse 26: “After the sixty-two ‘sevens,’ the Anointed One will be cut off and will have nothing. The people of the ruler who will come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end will come like a flood: War will continue until the end, and desolations have been decreed.” (Daniel 9:26) The Anointed One is Jesus; when he is "cut off" is talking about his death on the cross. The people of the ruler are the Romans who in fact did come and destroy the city and the temple. Notice that we're told that war will continue to the end and "desolations" have been decreed". The word "desolations" means destruction, ruin, horror, and that's what has been happening since Jerusalem was destroyed and will continue until the end of the Tribulation for Israel. Daniel 9:27 tells us several things. We see that somehow time will be stopped for Israel until the antichrist confirms a covenant of peace with them that is supposed to last for 7 years. So we have a huge gap in time from the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple in 70ad just as was foretold by Daniel in verse 26 and by Jesus, until the covenant of peace is signed by the antichrist. We're told that half way through these 7 years the antichrist will end the sacrifices in the temple which tells us therefore that the temple will have to be rebuilt before this happens. We're also told that the antichrist will defile the temple with an "abomination that causes desolation", this is the same one our Lord spoke of in Matthew 24:15 and Mark 13:14. What this means is that the antichrist will do something in the temple that will cause it to be defiled, that will make it unclean and unfit for anyone to worship God in it. Some think that the abomination could be the image of the antichrist that's spoken of in Rev. 13:14–15. I think it is more likely that he will sacrifice something like a pig which the Jew's consider to be unclean, and that the image will be set up immediately after that, when he declares himself to be god. Paul says that “He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God.” (2 Thessalonians 2:4).
We'll discuss what's going to happen during the tribulation a little later. Right now I want to emphasize the time element that God has given us here. He has told Daniel that Jerusalem and the temple will be destroyed , which we know happened in 70ad. Then there is a huge gap in time that nothing is said about. The next thing we're told is about the antichrist and how Israel will know that their last 7 years have begun - when he confirms that covenant or treaty. So God's "clock" for Israel stopped in 70ad. It's on hold. It will not begin ticking again until the antichrist confirms that treaty. Then, suddenly, God begins to focus on Israel again and explains the last 7 years in detail.
What about all the years in between though? Why aren't they spoken of? Why didn't God tell Daniel about them? We know what happened - Jesus began the Church and Gentiles have been being added to God's Kingdom ever since then. We know that the Bible speaks of this time period as "the time of the Gentiles" and Luke 21:24 Jesus, speaking about the Jew's, Israel, said: “They will fall by the sword and will be taken as prisoners to all the nations. Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.” So we know that just as God told Daniel, that war and horror will fall on Israel for all the years from 70ad until the end of the tribulation. However, we're also shown that the time of the Gentiles will change at the beginning of the Tribulation. Up until then, the time of the gentiles speaks about Gentiles being saved and being part of God's Kingdom. Once the tribulation begins though, it changes to punishment for those Gentiles that refused to be saved! We can see this in Revelation 11:2 because in this scripture, God tells them not to measure the court of the Gentiles, showing that now the Gentiles are rejected. We know too that the bible also calls the time from Pentecost until the rapture the "age of grace", because it's through God's grace we gentiles have been saved; whereas the time from Moses until Jesus started the church the "age of the law". There is also another name for the time of the Tribulation. God also calls it the "time of Jacob's trouble". “How awful that day will be! None will be like it. It will be a time of trouble for Jacob, but he will be saved out of it.” (Jeremiah 30:7) Over and over in the OT, God speaks about this time and very specifically relates it to Israel - not to Gentiles. It's as though Gentiles don't have anything at all to do with it.
This makes a lot of sense though, because when God's clock begins for Israel again, the last gentile will have been saved, and the last Jew to be saved and made a member of Christ's body, the Church, will have been saved too. The age of the Church must end before the Tribulation begins. Why? Because the Tribulation is not about Gentiles, except for those who have refused God's gift of salvation like we saw in Revelation 11:2. The Tribulation is not about Grace, like the age we are now living in. The tribulation, Jacob's trouble, is about the Law, it's about Israel, and it's about God's Wrath being poured out on those who refused Him. We, who have been saved, are told that Jesus rescues us from the wrath of God that is coming, (1 Thessalonians 1:10) and that God has chosen us to be saved through Jesus, not to suffer His wrath (1 Thessalonians 5:9). And that the day will come that He will give relief to all of us who have been saved while He punishes all those who have not been saved (2 Thessalonians 1:6–8) . As you can easily see then, there is absolutely no purpose or reason for the Church to be on this earth when the Tribulation happens. Instead, it's all about Israel, the law, and those Gentiles that did not accept God's offer of salvation. It's a time of judgment and punishment.
Although when the rapture happens, the last Gentile will have been saved, and the last Jew will have been made a member of Christ's body, the Church, there will still be a chance for people to be saved after the rapture. But there will be a difference between their salvation and ours. Those who are saved after the rapture will NOT be part of the body of Christ. They will not be members of Christ's body, the Church. This is another reason we can know that the Church will not be on the earth when the tribulation happens. During the Tribulation, when a Jewish person is saved, they will still be considered to be part of Israel. Remember, God promised them that "all Israel will be saved". I want to quote this in context for you so you can see it in full as that's important: “I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in. And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: “The deliverer will come from Zion; he will turn godlessness away from Jacob. And this is my covenant with them when I take away their sins.”” (Romans 11:25–27) Notice that "all Israel will be saved" happens AFTER the full number of the Gentiles has come in. The "full number of the Gentiles has come in" simply means when every gentile that is going to be saved and part of the body of Christ, has been saved. So when the last Gentile that God has elected to be saved, accepts Christ, the church age will be over. We're told that the deliverer, who we know is Jesus, will come from Zion, and since we know that Jesus in now in Heaven, this must happen when He returns the second time. So when Jesus returns, at His Second Coming, at that time, "all Israel will be saved!" Notice again that the focus is on Israel and God's promise to them.
Quickly, why does God say that "all Israel will be saved" and yet in other places show us that only a small remnant of Israel, one third of them will be saved? (Zechariah 13:9) Which is true? Both are. It depends on when in time you look at it. A HUGE number of Jew's will be saved during the Tribulation. To start with God will supernaturally save 144,000 Jew's who will be witnesses to the rest of Israel, (Revelation 7:3–8) and then God will also send two supernatural witnesses to Israel to save many. (Revelation 11:3). Many Jew's during the Tribulation will follow the antichrist instead though. Jesus warned the Pharisees of this when He said: “I have come in my Father’s name, and you do not accept me; but if someone else comes in his own name, you will accept him.” (John 5:43) They will not be saved because they again refuse Jesus. So right up until the very end of the Tribulation, the prophecy that only a remnant will be saved will be true. To understand how the prophecy that "all Israel will be saved" we have to next understand that it was explained that only those Jew's who obeyed God were considered to be "the True Israel" in God's eyes. When Jesus returns, all those Jew's that are left will call Him Savior, and so in fact, "all Israel will be saved."
I'm sorry this is so long, but I wanted to get it finished so I wouldn't lose my train of thought again. Next we're going to talk about God's prophecy to Ezekiel about the "dry bones", which tells us about Israel in the end times through the Tribulation.
Let me know if you have any questions about this.
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Post by evafromgreece on Aug 1, 2016 15:47:09 GMT -5
"When He does, they will go through a very hard time as part of their judgment, but it's also to cleanse them and conform them into the image of His priests, and the Godly Nation He intended them to be"
and this will happen after, or during the Millennial Kingdom?
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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Post by fearnot on Aug 2, 2016 19:23:43 GMT -5
Thank you Cindy. I really like the way you cleared up yet another so called Bible contradiction.....all Israel with be saved vs. 1/3 will be saved.
But on that note ( who will be saved during the tribulation), does that mean that NO Gentile will be saved during the tribulation, because it is ONLY about Israel?
I am confused because in the Left Behind books and others like it, some 'gentiles, along with 1/3 of the Jews are saved.
But it sounds like that may not be true?
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Post by Cindy on Aug 3, 2016 10:10:23 GMT -5
The day will come soon though, when God will once again put His focus on Israel. When He does, they will go through a very hard time as part of their judgment, but it's also to cleanse them and conform them into the image of His priests, and the Godly Nation He intended them to be. At that time He will then keep all of His promises He ever made to Israel. and this will happen after, or during the Millennial Kingdom? Thank you Cindy. I really like the way you cleared up yet another so called Bible contradiction.....all Israel with be saved vs. 1/3 will be saved.
But on that note ( who will be saved during the tribulation), does that mean that NO Gentile will be saved during the tribulation, because it is ONLY about Israel?
I am confused because in the Left Behind books and others like it, some 'gentiles, along with 1/3 of the Jews are saved.
But it sounds like that may not be true?
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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Post by fearnot on Aug 3, 2016 13:47:58 GMT -5
Wow! I didn't realize it will be like the age of the law again!
I thought Gentiles could be saved, but I misread what you wrote, because I thought you were saying during the tribulation no gentiles could be saved....
I think what confused me was when you wrote that the tribulation will start after the last Gentile was saved.....
but....
I didn't get that you meant, the last Gentile to be saved in the church age as the body of Christ.....
those saved during the Tribulation will be as a part of Israel.
As always, thank you for clearing that up!!!
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Post by Cindy on Aug 4, 2016 10:15:30 GMT -5
Wow! I didn't realize it will be like the age of the law again!
I thought Gentiles could be saved, but I misread what you wrote, because I thought you were saying during the tribulation no gentiles could be saved....
I think what confused me was when you wrote that the tribulation will start after the last Gentile was saved.....
but....
I didn't get that you meant, the last Gentile to be saved in the church age as the body of Christ.....
those saved during the Tribulation will be as a part of Israel.
As always, thank you for clearing that up!!! |
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Post by Cindy on Aug 7, 2016 8:06:19 GMT -5
Please read, Ezekiel 37:1–14. Remember that Daniel learned from studying God's Word that Jeremiah had prophesied that it would soon be time for Israel to go back to her own land. There were several prophets alive at the same time as Daniel - some older, some younger than he was. Among them were Ezekiel, Habakkuk, Jeremiah, and Zephaniah. Today we read the prophesies they wrote and know without any doubt that they were all true prophets of God. When they were alive, because they were true prophets and because they knew God and His Word, they also knew that each of the others were also true prophets. But the rest of the people alive in that day didn't know that. When we read the books they each wrote we discover that most of the people did not believe them, and mainly it was because they didn't want to know the Truth. They didn't want to admit their sins and have to repent of them. (just like it was in the time Jesus was here) However, those who truly belonged to God knew, and they listened to these prophets. Daniel also studied the prophesies of Ezekiel, and one of his prophecies also relates to the end times future of Israel. It's called the Valley of the Dry Bones.
We know from the previous chapter as well as Ezekiel 37:11 that the dry bones represent Israel. God shows them as bones that are dry and white with age, showing that they'd been lying in this valley for a very long time. Keep in mind that when the bible speaks of someone being dead, like it does here, it's not necessarily talking about them being physically dead, bur instead speaking of spiritual death. The people were alive, but the bones showed that they had been dead spiritually for a very, very long time.
In this prophecy, God brings Israel to life in stages. First the bones come together, then tendons and flesh are on them, then breath enters them, and finally, God puts His spirit in them. Let me share what one of my books say about this, as it is a prophecy that is being fulfilled even now:
The prophecy spoken by Ezekiel indicated a gradual coming together of the nation of Israel. The bodies of Jews were scattered all over this figurative graveyard that contained the bones of other civilizations now dead, such as the Hittites, Assyrians, Babylonians, Chaldeans, Medo-Persians, Romans, and so on. But the dead bones of Israel would be different; they would gradually leave the graveyard of dead civilizations and once again become a living nation. Indeed this is what has happened with the resurrection of Israel in the twentieth century.
A noise and rattling sound. The single most influential event that helped to draw the Jews back to Palestine from around the world was the signing of the Balfour Declaration in 1917. Nothing creates a noise and rattling sound more than a war. But there's actually more to the story of the noise. By 1916, World War 1 wasn't going well for England. The UK was desperate to find a method of manufacturing TNT quickly in order to repel the advancement of the Germans (and nothing makes a noise quite like TNT) A brilliant Jew named Chaim Weizmann invented a formula that made rapid production possible, which helped to change the course of the war. In return, the prime minister of England told Dr Weizmann to name his reward. Rejecting personal recompense, Weizmann requested that Palestine be declared the national homeland for the Jewish people. As a result, the Balfour Declaration was subsequently drafted and signed on November 2, 1917.
Bones coming together. In 1917, there were fewer than 100,000 Jews living in Palestine; but that would quickly change. For the first time the nation that controlled the land (England) gave official sanction to the scattered Jews to reclaim it. The bones were beginning to come together.
Tendons and flesh appearing. By the 1920's the bones were coming together but there was no meat on them. There was little national consciousness among the Jews. The government was British, although a few small Jewish unions called kibbutzim were beginning to crop up. However, all this changed when the Arabs began their assaults on the Jewish settlers. The defenseless Jews marshaled together in strength and unity to resist a common foe. The strength from the tendons and flesh was beginning to grow.
Skin covering them. The organizational unity and ability to self-govern became apparent following the establishment of Israel as a sovereign state in 1948 and it's recognition by the other living nations of the world. With skin covering the tendons and bones, the body of Israel was now recognizable, but there was still no "breath" within. This prophecy clearly indicates that Israel would be physically regathered before she was spiritually reborn.
But there was no "breath" in them. The word breath (Hebrew, ruach), when used symbolically in Scripture, indicates spiritual life. From the time God breathed into Adam the breath of life to make him a living soul, God has been more interested in man's spiritual life than in his physical. Mankind, for the most part, operates in the opposite manner; and the Jewish emigration to Israel is no exception. Essentially, the regathering of Jews into their homeland beginning in 1917 has been primarily a physically, politically and economically motivated experience. The majority of Jews who inhabit the Promised Land today have no "breath" in them. That is, they are not committed to God by faith and practice. Many tend to be rather secular and humanistic. Theodor Herzl was actually an atheist and the Zionist movement he founded was not a spiritual organization, but instead reflected strong humanistic tendencies. In fact, the Zionists in the Israeli government today frequently find themselves at odds with the orthodox rabbis and other minorities who are likely to serve and live according to the Old Testament.
But this will one day change. It is significant that Israel is only "a breath away" from completely fulfilling Ezekiel's prophecy in chapter 37, and this could happen within the very near future. In fact, the greatest prophetic event will take place in a sudden flash and without warning! Global Warning by Tim LaHaye and Ed Hindson on pages 124-126
Ezekiel 37:15–23 shows us that Israel will no longer be divided into two houses when God begins to bring this prophecy together. (remember that the Old Testament shows us that Israel was divided into the northern kingdom and the southern Kingdom before they were taken to Babylon) This has already come true as Israel today is one nation, and not divided into two kingdoms like they were before. If you continue to read on from there, or if you read the chapter this one, you'll see that both are speaking of the Millennial Kingdom. So God has placed this dry bones prophecy right in the middle of talking about the Millennial Kingdom.
As you can see, this prophecy explains why Israel is so worldly today and it tells us that the day will come when God will give them His Spirit to dwell in them. In other places in Ezekiel as well as in Jeremiah 31:31–40 and the books of the other prophets, God says this will happen when He puts a new heart in them - a heart that will love God and obey Him. It shows that this happens at the end of the Tribulation when they see Jesus returning to save them from the antichrist.
If you have questions you need to ask about the dry bones prophecy or anything else, please feel free to ask them.
Now, after all we've studied, I'd like you each to explain to me why the church can not be on the earth during the tribulation. Please tell me every single reason you can that shows the church can not be here then. Since I'm pretty sure that Barbara understands this from what she's already posted, I'd like Eva to be the first one to explain this to me. When Eva is done, then Barbara can explain it, ok? The reason I'm not sure if you understand all this Eva is just because you don't write very much about it, so I don't know how you're thinking or how much you understand. This is the only way I could think of to make sure you both really understand what I've been trying to explain all this time. After you've both done this, then we will start talking about the rapture and then the tribulation.
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Post by evafromgreece on Aug 9, 2016 14:49:05 GMT -5
Although when the rapture happens, the last Gentile will have been saved, and the last Jew will have been made a member of Christ's body, the Church, there will still be a chance for people to be saved after the rapture. But there will be a difference between their salvation and ours. Those who are saved after the rapture will NOT be part of the body of Christ. They will not be members of Christ's body, the Church. This is another reason we can know that the Church will not be on the earth when the tribulation happens. During the Tribulation, when a Jewish person is saved, they will still be considered to be part of Israel. Remember, God promised them that "all Israel will be saved". I want to quote this in context for you so you can see it in full as that's important: “I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in. And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: “The deliverer will come from Zion; he will turn godlessness away from Jacob. And this is my covenant with them when I take away their sins.”” (Romans 11:25–27) Notice that "all Israel will be saved" happens AFTER the full number of the Gentiles has come in. The "full number of the Gentiles has come in" simply means when every gentile that is going to be saved and part of the body of Christ, has been saved. So when the last Gentile that God has elected to be saved, accepts Christ, the church age will be over. We're told that the deliverer, who we know is Jesus, will come from Zion, and since we know that Jesus in now in Heaven, this must happen when He returns the second time. So when Jesus returns, at His Second Coming, at that time, "all Israel will be saved!" Notice again that the focus is on Israel and God's promise to them.
So the gentiles t hat are going to be saved during the Tribulation are considered Israel and not church? |
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Post by Cindy on Aug 10, 2016 11:29:08 GMT -5
Although when the rapture happens, the last Gentile will have been saved, and the last Jew will have been made a member of Christ's body, the Church, there will still be a chance for people to be saved after the rapture. But there will be a difference between their salvation and ours. Those who are saved after the rapture will NOT be part of the body of Christ. They will not be members of Christ's body, the Church. This is another reason we can know that the Church will not be on the earth when the tribulation happens. During the Tribulation, when a Jewish person is saved, they will still be considered to be part of Israel. Remember, God promised them that "all Israel will be saved". I want to quote this in context for you so you can see it in full as that's important: “I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in. And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: “The deliverer will come from Zion; he will turn godlessness away from Jacob. And this is my covenant with them when I take away their sins.”” (Romans 11:25–27) Notice that "all Israel will be saved" happens AFTER the full number of the Gentiles has come in. The "full number of the Gentiles has come in" simply means when every gentile that is going to be saved and part of the body of Christ, has been saved. So when the last Gentile that God has elected to be saved, accepts Christ, the church age will be over. We're told that the deliverer, who we know is Jesus, will come from Zion, and since we know that Jesus in now in Heaven, this must happen when He returns the second time. So when Jesus returns, at His Second Coming, at that time, "all Israel will be saved!" Notice again that the focus is on Israel and God's promise to them.
So the gentiles t hat are going to be saved during the Tribulation are considered Israel and not church?
"Now, after all we've studied, I'd like you each to explain to me why the church can not be on the earth during the tribulation. Please tell me every single reason you can that shows the church can not be here then. Since I'm pretty sure that Barbara understands this from what she's already posted, I'd like Eva to be the first one to explain this to me. When Eva is done, then Barbara can explain it, ok? The reason I'm not sure if you understand all this Eva is just because you don't write very much about it, so I don't know how you're thinking or how much you understand. This is the only way I could think of to make sure you both really understand what I've been trying to explain all this time. After you've both done this, then we will start talking about the rapture and then the tribulation."
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Post by evafromgreece on Aug 16, 2016 16:11:08 GMT -5
Please read, Ezekiel 37:1–14. Remember that Daniel learned from studying God's Word that Jeremiah had prophesied that it would soon be time for Israel to go back to her own land. There were several prophets alive at the same time as Daniel - some older, some younger than he was. Among them were Ezekiel, Habakkuk, Jeremiah, and Zephaniah. Today we read the prophesies they wrote and know without any doubt that they were all true prophets of God. When they were alive, because they were true prophets and because they knew God and His Word, they also knew that each of the others were also true prophets. But the rest of the people alive in that day didn't know that. When we read the books they each wrote we discover that most of the people did not believe them, and mainly it was because they didn't want to know the Truth. They didn't want to admit their sins and have to repent of them. (just like it was in the time Jesus was here) However, those who truly belonged to God knew, and they listened to these prophets. Daniel also studied the prophesies of Ezekiel, and one of his prophecies also relates to the end times future of Israel. It's called the Valley of the Dry Bones.
We know from the previous chapter as well as Ezekiel 37:11 that the dry bones represent Israel. God shows them as bones that are dry and white with age, showing that they'd been lying in this valley for a very long time. Keep in mind that when the bible speaks of someone being dead, like it does here, it's not necessarily talking about them being physically dead, bur instead speaking of spiritual death. The people were alive, but the bones showed that they had been dead spiritually for a very, very long time.
In this prophecy, God brings Israel to life in stages. First the bones come together, then tendons and flesh are on them, then breath enters them, and finally, God puts His spirit in them. Let me share what one of my books say about this, as it is a prophecy that is being fulfilled even now:
The prophecy spoken by Ezekiel indicated a gradual coming together of the nation of Israel. The bodies of Jews were scattered all over this figurative graveyard that contained the bones of other civilizations now dead, such as the Hittites, Assyrians, Babylonians, Chaldeans, Medo-Persians, Romans, and so on. But the dead bones of Israel would be different; they would gradually leave the graveyard of dead civilizations and once again become a living nation. Indeed this is what has happened with the resurrection of Israel in the twentieth century.
A noise and rattling sound. The single most influential event that helped to draw the Jews back to Palestine from around the world was the signing of the Balfour Declaration in 1917. Nothing creates a noise and rattling sound more than a war. But there's actually more to the story of the noise. By 1916, World War 1 wasn't going well for England. The UK was desperate to find a method of manufacturing TNT quickly in order to repel the advancement of the Germans (and nothing makes a noise quite like TNT) A brilliant Jew named Chaim Weizmann invented a formula that made rapid production possible, which helped to change the course of the war. In return, the prime minister of England told Dr Weizmann to name his reward. Rejecting personal recompense, Weizmann requested that Palestine be declared the national homeland for the Jewish people. As a result, the Balfour Declaration was subsequently drafted and signed on November 2, 1917.
Bones coming together. In 1917, there were fewer than 100,000 Jews living in Palestine; but that would quickly change. For the first time the nation that controlled the land (England) gave official sanction to the scattered Jews to reclaim it. The bones were beginning to come together.
Tendons and flesh appearing. By the 1920's the bones were coming together but there was no meat on them. There was little national consciousness among the Jews. The government was British, although a few small Jewish unions called kibbutzim were beginning to crop up. However, all this changed when the Arabs began their assaults on the Jewish settlers. The defenseless Jews marshaled together in strength and unity to resist a common foe. The strength from the tendons and flesh was beginning to grow.
Skin covering them. The organizational unity and ability to self-govern became apparent following the establishment of Israel as a sovereign state in 1948 and it's recognition by the other living nations of the world. With skin covering the tendons and bones, the body of Israel was now recognizable, but there was still no "breath" within. This prophecy clearly indicates that Israel would be physically regathered before she was spiritually reborn.
But there was no "breath" in them. The word breath (Hebrew, ruach), when used symbolically in Scripture, indicates spiritual life. From the time God breathed into Adam the breath of life to make him a living soul, God has been more interested in man's spiritual life than in his physical. Mankind, for the most part, operates in the opposite manner; and the Jewish emigration to Israel is no exception. Essentially, the regathering of Jews into their homeland beginning in 1917 has been primarily a physically, politically and economically motivated experience. The majority of Jews who inhabit the Promised Land today have no "breath" in them. That is, they are not committed to God by faith and practice. Many tend to be rather secular and humanistic. Theodor Herzl was actually an atheist and the Zionist movement he founded was not a spiritual organization, but instead reflected strong humanistic tendencies. In fact, the Zionists in the Israeli government today frequently find themselves at odds with the orthodox rabbis and other minorities who are likely to serve and live according to the Old Testament.
But this will one day change. It is significant that Israel is only "a breath away" from completely fulfilling Ezekiel's prophecy in chapter 37, and this could happen within the very near future. In fact, the greatest prophetic event will take place in a sudden flash and without warning! Global Warning by Tim LaHaye and Ed Hindson on pages 124-126
Ezekiel 37:15–23 shows us that Israel will no longer be divided into two houses when God begins to bring this prophecy together. (remember that the Old Testament shows us that Israel was divided into the northern kingdom and the southern Kingdom before they were taken to Babylon) This has already come true as Israel today is one nation, and not divided into two kingdoms like they were before. If you continue to read on from there, or if you read the chapter this one, you'll see that both are speaking of the Millennial Kingdom. So God has placed this dry bones prophecy right in the middle of talking about the Millennial Kingdom.
As you can see, this prophecy explains why Israel is so worldly today and it tells us that the day will come when God will give them His Spirit to dwell in them. In other places in Ezekiel as well as in Jeremiah 31:31–40 and the books of the other prophets, God says this will happen when He puts a new heart in them - a heart that will love God and obey Him. It shows that this happens at the end of the Tribulation when they see Jesus returning to save them from the antichrist.
If you have questions you need to ask about the dry bones prophecy or anything else, please feel free to ask them.
Now, after all we've studied, I'd like you each to explain to me why the church can not be on the earth during the tribulation. Please tell me every single reason you can that shows the church can not be here then. Since I'm pretty sure that Barbara understands this from what she's already posted, I'd like Eva to be the first one to explain this to me. When Eva is done, then Barbara can explain it, ok? The reason I'm not sure if you understand all this Eva is just because you don't write very much about it, so I don't know how you're thinking or how much you understand. This is the only way I could think of to make sure you both really understand what I've been trying to explain all this time. After you've both done this, then we will start talking about the rapture and then the tribulation.
Ok, before my answer, I wonder how are we sure that this prophecy talks about these historical events in Jewish history, and not something else, for example how the church was formed from dead bones and then the church got the spirit? Couldnt this mean this also? This might be a silly question, though |
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