fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,397 
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Hebrews
Oct 13, 2019 10:13:28 GMT -5
Post by fearnot on Oct 13, 2019 10:13:28 GMT -5
Intro
the book of Hebrews has a lot of Old Testament quotes in it,
but its main goal of this book, is to prove the superiority and perfection of Jesus ,
in every way:
As the perfect once for all sacrifice for sin
as the perfect high priest
as better than any angel
etc.
and therefore believers have superior privileges.
The author is unknown, but almost certainly was not Paul but whatever man wrote it, it was Holy Spirit inspired.
.
Nor is it clear exactly what group it was for, tho because of so many Old Testament references, it would seem like a large portion were in fact Hebrews, tho it could have had Gentiles and believers and unbelievers all mixed together.
Hebrews: 1-5
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
It starts right off with God....and that He spoke ( in the past) to men, by the prophets who then spoke to men what God said.
However, now He speaks by God the Son ( who is also 100 % God as well as 100% man)
It is not that the Old Testament was or is wrong, but incomplete, much of it was in symbols , signs, types, etc. pointing to the completion in Jesus.
When we read "in these last days" at first we might wonder about and say: Last days???
That was over 2000 years ago!!
But as for me, I always remember the verse in 2 Peter 3:8
"But do not overlook this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day".
Also the 'last days' are between Christ's first coming and His second coming.
Jesus is not only heir of all things, all things were created by Jesus.
It occurred to me that if I even am assaulted again about am I really saved, or about death etc.....
that Jesus my Savior,
and is the one by which the universe ( time, space, matter etc.) came into being,
can also
complete that which He has begun in me and see me thru to Heaven.
Having completed His Work of salvation Jesus now is in Heaven seating at the right hand of God the Father.
Then we come to how superior Jesus is to angels ( that He created)
"having become as much superior to angels as the name he has inherited is more excellent than theirs".
There have been and still are religions, cults etc. that worship angels and claim Jesus was an angel....
So the next verses deal with that:
Angels are messengers, servants, created beings
God the Father never said to an angel ( as He did to the Son)
"“You are my Son,
today I have begotten you”?
It is true that for a 'little while' ( while on earth as 100% man ...and still 100% God
Jesus was a little lower than the angels,
so that He might die for the sins of those who would believe.
But this is no way meant He was an angel.
Another confusion is the term used for Jesus as the Angel of the Lord for preincarnate appearances of the Lord Jesus Christ know as Christophanies.
Tho not everyone agrees about that.
I know we are not to quote anymore but this one time I will quote John MacArthur who
'seems' to agree about the Angel of the Lord being preincarnate appearances of Jesus
when he says:
"John MacArthur comments on the Angel of the LORD noting that
"This special individual spoke as though He were distinct from Yahweh,
yet also spoke in the first person as though He were indeed to be identified as Yahweh Himself,
with Hagar recognizing that in seeing this Angel, she had seen God (v. 13). Others had the same experience and came to the same conclusion".
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,397
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Hebrews
Oct 14, 2019 11:33:59 GMT -5
Post by fearnot on Oct 14, 2019 11:33:59 GMT -5
Hebrews 1: 6-14
Here is another point against Christ being an angel
and that is that Jesus is to be 'worshiped' by the angels
Angels don't worship angels.....but they do worship God.
Nor are angels to be worshiped!!
Jesus is not the 'highest' angel or the most superior angel, He is the Creator of angels!
We are not to 'worship' angels...only... God.... and thus we worship Jesus because He is God ( NOT an angel).
Which is not to say angels are not powerful they can be like wind or flames of fire...
but they are servants of the Creator.
Then God the Father says to God the Son:
"Your throne, O God.."
God calls Jesus God ( not the head of angels, not an Earthly king but
God)...
And Jesus throne is forever and ever.
Jesus loves righteousness but hates evil ( He is not neutral or ambivalent about good and evil).
He is Holy, righteous and without sin.
Jesus is the anointed king.
It goes on to point out that the universe is wearing out
and will perish....
(but God will not)
And again the contrast of angels and Jesus, God, the Father, never asked any angel to sit on His right hand but Jesus does.
and tho we may have troubles and woes from this world, it is only for a time,
because the time is coming when Jesus enemies ( and those who trouble us)
are put into subjection.
And again a contrast they are ministering spirits ( for our ( my) Lord and Savior.
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,397
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Hebrews
Oct 15, 2019 10:11:53 GMT -5
Post by fearnot on Oct 15, 2019 10:11:53 GMT -5
Hebrews 2: 1-5
Because Jesus is God the Son
( and not an angel....He is God the Son, Eternal, Creator, Savior, Lord of Lords and King of Kings, all powerful, victorious, all knowing etc etc.)
we now have the complete superior revelation and we must not just know the good news but give our lives to Jesus and not just drift on by.
If we after hearing the Truth the greatest danger is if we drift back to self, and slide easily into Hell.
To just hear and maybe even mentally agree ( to some extent) is not enough, we must believe and apply it to our lives, it must be our priority in life,
This is not a suggestion or optional....this is a command not to neglect so great a salvation.....the cost of doing so is eternal sorrow, pain, agony etc.
If a person were on a boat and wanted to go from one seaport in their country to one a little bit away....but fell asleep, they could drift right into another country ( very hostile).
This is what will happen to those who hear the word but don't act on it....they drift and do not make it to Heaven but drift right into Hell.
God used angels and prophets to give His Word and then God the Son who is THE WORD, how can we neglect so great a salvation?
The answer is of course we can't if we turn our backs on it!!
I think a lot of people might be of the impression that they are 'basically' 'good' people and they aren't necessarily adamantly opposing the gospel, they just neglect it and figure as a good person, they will drift to Heaven, if there is a Heaven....
but this is a lie the devil uses to let them drift all the way to Hell.
It's amazing the things people will believe with almost no, or, no evidence.
But when it comes to Jesus, who He was ( and is) there is a plethora...a LOT of evidence.
Interestingly, a lot of people will say: that yes, they believed Jesus was a real person, actually even a good wise person with some nice ideas....
either not knowing He claimed to be God.
He could not be a good person if that was not true, he would either have been a liar or crazy....but not a wise and good person.
He either was and is God or not.
However besides His Words that no one could ever surpass there were other things that point to the absolute truth about Him
there were the eyewitnesses
and the signs, wonders and miracles He did
and not only that but He gave them to others gifts according to His will.
God did not subjugate the world world to come to angels
Angels always refuse being worshiped ( only God is to be worshiped).... but Jesus did not refuse to be worshiped.
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Hebrews
Oct 15, 2019 11:59:59 GMT -5
Post by Cindy on Oct 15, 2019 11:59:59 GMT -5
I'm going to reply inside your posts.
Intro
the book of Hebrews has a lot of Old Testament quotes in it,
but its main goal of this book, is to prove the superiority and perfection of Jesus ,
in every way:
As the perfect once for all sacrifice for sin
as the perfect high priest
as better than any angel
etc.
and therefore believers have superior privileges.
The author is unknown, but almost certainly was not Paul but whatever man wrote it, it was Holy Spirit inspired.
.
Nor is it clear exactly what group it was for, tho because of so many Old Testament references, it would seem like a large portion were in fact Hebrews, tho it could have had Gentiles and believers and unbelievers all mixed together.
One of the most important things to know and understand about the book of Hebrews is that it's a divine commentary on the prophetic meaning of the ceremonial law. In particularly Hebrews explains the significance of the offerings and feasts in Leviticus. So you could say that it's a commentary on Leviticus! All through the book, the author stresses the importance of applying and practicing the doctrine spoken about in our life. Hebrews is invaluable in helping us understand the OT and the supremacy of our faith. It was most likely written between a.d. 67–69, only 30 years after Jesus ascended into heaven. .
Hebrews: 1-5
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
It starts right off with God....and that He spoke ( in the past) to men, by the prophets who then spoke to men what God said.
However, now He speaks by God the Son ( who is also 100 % God as well as 100% man)
It is not that the Old Testament was or is wrong, but incomplete, much of it was in symbols , signs, types, etc. pointing to the completion in Jesus.
When we read "in these last days" at first we might wonder about and say: Last days???
That was over 2000 years ago!!
But as for me, I always remember the verse in 2 Peter 3:8
"But do not overlook this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day".
Also the 'last days' are between Christ's first coming and His second coming.
All very true, but there's something else that we should consider. I haven't looked in the commentaries to see if others have said this before, but it's what I see when I read this. First, we know that God uses words very specifically in our Bible. In other words, He's very careful about what He says and how He says it. So when we read the words, "in these last days", we can know that God wants us to realize that He is speaking about the last days. God knew and knows exactly what in His Word and about Him will be attacked and how the false teachers will try to "prove" they're right. Therefore He tells us here and now, that the only way God will speak to us during these days is through Jesus. In the past, God spoke through prophets, through visions, and dreams, etc. But that's not going to happen anymore. Yes, He did partically fulfill a scripture during the first Pentecost when all of the disciples began speaking in other languages telling people about Jesus, but that too won't happen anymore. Now, we're told, we will hear from God only through Jesus, His Son. (and Jesus turns us to His Word.)
This immediately proves that anyone who says they are a prophet is lying. Anyone who says they've had a vision or dream from God is lying. It also begins to show us the supremacy of Christ.
.
Jesus is not only heir of all things, all things were created by Jesus.
It occurred to me that if I even am assaulted again about am I really saved, or about death etc.....
that Jesus my Savior,
and is the one by which the universe ( time, space, matter etc.) came into being,
can also
complete that which He has begun in me and see me thru to Heaven.
Yes, He can and He even says that He will! You need to look for those promises. (like in Philippians 1:6)
Having completed His Work of salvation Jesus now is in Heaven seating at the right hand of God the Father.
Then we come to how superior Jesus is to angels ( that He created)
"having become as much superior to angels as the name he has inherited is more excellent than theirs".
There have been and still are religions, cults etc. that worship angels and claim Jesus was an angel....
So the next verses deal with that:
Angels are messengers, servants, created beings
God the Father never said to an angel ( as He did to the Son)
"“You are my Son,
today I have begotten you”?
It is true that for a 'little while' ( while on earth as 100% man ...and still 100% God
Jesus was a little lower than the angels,
so that He might die for the sins of those who would believe.
But this is no way meant He was an angel.
Another confusion is the term used for Jesus as the Angel of the Lord for preincarnate appearances of the Lord Jesus Christ know as Christophanies.
Tho not everyone agrees about that.
I know we are not to quote anymore but this one time I will quote John MacArthur who
'seems' to agree about the Angel of the Lord being preincarnate appearances of Jesus
when he says:
"John MacArthur comments on the Angel of the LORD noting that
"This special individual spoke as though He were distinct from Yahweh,
yet also spoke in the first person as though He were indeed to be identified as Yahweh Himself,
with Hagar recognizing that in seeing this Angel, she had seen God (v. 13). Others had the same experience and came to the same conclusion".
Hebrews 1: 6-14
Here is another point against Christ being an angel
and that is that Jesus is to be 'worshiped' by the angels
Angels don't worship angels.....but they do worship God.
Nor are angels to be worshiped!!
Jesus is not the 'highest' angel or the most superior angel, He is the Creator of angels!
We are not to 'worship' angels...only... God.... and thus we worship Jesus because He is God ( NOT an angel).
Which is not to say angels are not powerful they can be like wind or flames of fire...
but they are servants of the Creator.
Then God the Father says to God the Son:
"Your throne, O God.."
God calls Jesus God ( not the head of angels, not an Earthly king but
God)...
And Jesus throne is forever and ever.
Jesus loves righteousness but hates evil ( He is not neutral or ambivalent about good and evil).
He is Holy, righteous and without sin.
Jesus is the anointed king.
It goes on to point out that the universe is wearing out
and will perish....
(but God will not)
And again the contrast of angels and Jesus, God, the Father, never asked any angel to sit on His right hand but Jesus does.
and tho we may have troubles and woes from this world, it is only for a time,
because the time is coming when Jesus enemies ( and those who trouble us)
are put into subjection.
And again a contrast they are ministering spirits ( for our ( my) Lord and Savior.
Hebrews 2: 1-
Because Jesus is God the Son
( and not an angel....He is God the Son, Eternal, Creator, Savior, Lord of Lords and King of Kings, all powerful, victorious, all knowing etc etc.)
we now have the complete superior revelation and we must not just know the good news but give our lives to Jesus and not just drift on by.
If we after hearing the Truth the greatest danger is if we drift back to self, and slide easily into Hell.
To just hear and maybe even mentally agree ( to some extent) is not enough, we must believe and apply it to our lives, it must be our priority in life,
This is not a suggestion or optional....this is a command not to neglect so great a salvation.....the cost of doing so is eternal sorrow, pain, agony etc.
If a person were on a boat and wanted to go from one seaport in their country to one a little bit away....but fell asleep, they could drift right into another country ( very hostile).
This is what will happen to those who hear the word but don't act on it....they drift and do not make it to Heaven but drift right into Hell.
God used angels and prophets to give His Word and then God the Son who is THE WORD, how can we neglect so great a salvation?
Notice that in this section we're warned not to "drift away". It doesn't say we should be careful not to hear something that somehow makes us instantly turn away from God, but rather that we don't drift away. Drifting is something that happens slowly, over time, and that we someone or something else to control. When we're floating in the ocean, the tides carry us wherever they want to and we have no control over them as long as we continue to allow the tide to do what it wants. However, we can control it if we wish to. We can fight the tide by turning over and swimming against it. To be warned not to drift away says a LOT.
It says for us not to take our salvation and our belief for granted. After all, we should be living it daily. We should be thinking about Jesus all through the day and not just when we read our Bible. Our thoughts about Him shouldn't be the kind of thoughts that are so boring they'd put you to sleep. They should be exciting thoughts or thoughts that are so interesting that they cause you to want to talk to Him about them or perhaps research it more in His Word.
To not drift away also tells us that we are to be in control of our thoughts at all times. (which of course God tells us outright in other scriptures.) By being in control of our thoughts, this makes us ultimately in control of our emotions and actions. Therefore we could not drift away when we are the ones controlling what we think and feel and how we act.
What else do you see it telling us?
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,397
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Hebrews
Oct 15, 2019 12:17:21 GMT -5
Post by fearnot on Oct 15, 2019 12:17:21 GMT -5
I thought what you said in this was super great!!!!
Quote Cindy :-)
"In the past, God spoke through prophets, through visions, and dreams, etc. But that's not going to happen anymore. Yes, He did partically fulfill a scripture during the first Pentecost when all of the disciples began speaking in other languages telling people about Jesus, but that too won't happen anymore. Now, we're told, we will hear from God only through Jesus, His Son. (and Jesus turns us to His Word.)
This immediately proves that anyone who says they are a prophet is lying. Anyone who says they've had a vision or dream from God is lying".
I know there are those who say they are Christians who go about saying: I got a message from God for you......
I thankfully have not had that experience, but I know others who have
and I always wondered....why did God give somebody else this so called 'word'....He could have told the person directly Himself......which right there is suspect
but here in His Word He says it is false and a lie.
I imagine some people are so deceived, they somehow think the 'words' they think they are getting....are really from God, but perhaps, are in fact, from demons....or as you said, just outright lies and they know it.
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Hebrews
Oct 16, 2019 7:43:32 GMT -5
Post by Cindy on Oct 16, 2019 7:43:32 GMT -5
I thought what you said in this was super great!!!!
Quote Cindy :-)
"In the past, God spoke through prophets, through visions, and dreams, etc. But that's not going to happen anymore. Yes, He did partially fulfill a scripture during the first Pentecost when all of the disciples began speaking in other languages telling people about Jesus, but that too won't happen anymore. Now, we're told, we will hear from God only through Jesus, His Son. (and Jesus turns us to His Word.)
This immediately proves that anyone who says they are a prophet is lying. Anyone who says they've had a vision or dream from God is lying".
I know there are those who say they are Christians who go about saying: I got a message from God for you......
I thankfully have not had that experience, but I know others who have
and I always wondered....why did God give somebody else this so called 'word'....He could have told the person directly Himself......which right there is suspect
but here in His Word He says it is false and a lie.
I imagine some people are so deceived, they somehow think the 'words' they think they are getting....are really from God, but perhaps, are in fact, from demons....or as you said, just outright lies and they know it.
I totally agree with you though. I think too that people who think they have a word from God about someone, do it because it makes them feel important.
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,397
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Hebrews
Oct 16, 2019 11:38:21 GMT -5
Post by fearnot on Oct 16, 2019 11:38:21 GMT -5
Hebrew 2: 6-13
Verses 6, 7, 8 comes from Job 7:17, psalm 8: 4-6, even Genesis 1:26.27
Why does God care about men....
well He created them
and
Jesus, God the Son actually became a human.
But Son of man does not necessarily mean specifically Jesus but rather just humans.
Men and woman were created in God's image.
And our original purpose was to be good stewards of God creation,...this honor was given to men, and not to the angels.
But in verse 8 the writer switches to the Son of man to THE Son of man ( Jesus) and makes a contrast. Jesus will, in the future ( as 100% God and as 100% human) rule the earth.....we do not see this yet.....
but also, we will be back to our original state in the future
In verse 9 the author clearly states he is talking about Jesus.
And we see that Jesus's suffering on the cross was not that something went way wrong, or was an unforeseen accident, but was planned from the beginning.
The reason was to pay for the salvation of those who would believe.
This suffering by Jesus was unbelievable love!!!
And so we were made clean and can stand in Heaven sanctified because He was perfect and Holy and could pay the cost of our sins.
Instead of being ashamed of us He will call us brothers ( and sisters LOL).
It also shows how complete a work was done, to the point He is not ashamed to call us His brethren.
A good thing to think about when tempted to be fearful or hurt of the lack of acceptance of others......I ( we) are excepted by God.....sooooooo
And then again the writer quotes from the old testament Psalm 22:22
Jesus actually delights in us!!!
How amazing is that?!!
and the 2nd quote in this passage is from Isaiah 8:18
Where it says God gave Him 'children' ( believers).
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,397
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Hebrews
Oct 17, 2019 12:27:46 GMT -5
Post by fearnot on Oct 17, 2019 12:27:46 GMT -5
Hebrew 2:14-18
Jesus had to become human in order to live a perfect life so He can save the children ( us believers).
We are flesh and blood but sadly the body has aches and pain, sins, temptations
and since Jesus came to save men ( and not angels) He had to be made like men in every respect....
even to the point of dying
Satan's biggest weapon ( and man's greatest fear) is death, and Jesus robbed the devil of it by His death and resurrection.
It was through the devil's temptation, that sin and death entered into the world when Adam and Eve sinned,
but to those Jesus saves, they will not enter into the 2nd death of Hell, but live eternity with Him.
It was not that Jesus killed satan at the cross,
but that ,the devil's power of death over the believers was destroyed,
( even tho their sin filled physical body will die), t
hey will live eternally ( with a new perfect sin free body in eternity future). Our sin is forgiven and Jesus has conquered death.
For Jesus, God the Son , to have become an angel would have been an unbelievable stooping of His nature,
but He did not do so , because He was not helping angels,
so instead he stooped even waaaaaay lower and became a man.
As an angel He could not atone for our sins.....no angel could do that for mankind.
Angels cannot fully sympathize with man,
but when Jesus became fully man ( as well as being fully God)
He could sympathize with our weaknesses,
being tempted in all things as we are ( yet He never sinned).
He has real mercy and love towards us....
"because he himself has suffered when tempted, he is able to help those who are being tempted."
For some reason this passage about angels reminds me of the incident I have told you about a few times before, only....this time thinking about it....I thought of how even IF it really had been angels....how different it would have been if it had been Jesus in the flesh that almost evening.
I told you about the guy who picked me up as I was hitch hiking....only he took me not where I wanted to go but somewhere where all I could see in any direction was miles and miles of flat land ( no houses or farms visible....
And then there was a big police station in the middle of nowhere and 4 or 5 police standing outside and a stop light that turned red.....so I was able to get out of this car ( having for once understood I was in grave danger).
I always wonder if the off duty policeman was really an angel.....and lets say he was
He gave me great 'logic':
telling me it was almost dark
(I was trying to hitch a ride back to where I had wanted to go in the first place)
and that all the guy had to do was wait awhile and then turn around and pick me back up!!
That sort of reminded me of how a real angel might not have the full compassion of Jesus
Who if He had picked me up that night.....I imagine the conversation might have been very different because of the great love and compassion He would have for me.
I think He 'might' have said something like: ( tho of course I cannot speak for my Lord really)
Oh beloved child, it breaks my heart you continue to put yourself in harms way, and allow yourself to be continually abused.....
Do you not know how much I love you? I died for you...you are precious to me
This life you are leading now, is full of darkness, pain, ugliness, etc.
This is NOT what I want for you...there is no beauty or love in the life you are living now
And so on....
which to me is just a small example of the difference between the angel ( who was logical)
( and, who IF really an angel,
God sent to save me from either instant death
or a horrible existence captured by this guy.... and then death)
And Jesus, who has so much love, pity and compassion
that He took all my sins
and paid what was the equivalent of an eternity in Hell, for me.
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Hebrews
Oct 18, 2019 9:17:47 GMT -5
Post by Cindy on Oct 18, 2019 9:17:47 GMT -5
Hebrew 2: 6-13
Verses 6, 7, 8 comes from Job 7:17, psalm 8: 4-6, even Genesis 1:26.27
Why does God care about men....
well He created them
and
Jesus, God the Son actually became a human.
But Son of man does not necessarily mean specifically Jesus but rather just humans.
Men and woman were created in God's image.
And our original purpose was to be good stewards of God creation,...this honor was given to men, and not to the angels.
But in verse 8 the writer switches to the Son of man to THE Son of man ( Jesus) and makes a contrast. Jesus will, in the future ( as 100% God and as 100% human) rule the earth.....we do not see this yet.....
but also, we will be back to our original state in the future
In verse 9 the author clearly states he is talking about Jesus.
And we see that Jesus's suffering on the cross was not that something went way wrong, or was an unforeseen accident, but was planned from the beginning.
The reason was to pay for the salvation of those who would believe.
This suffering by Jesus was unbelievable love!!!
And so we were made clean and can stand in Heaven sanctified because He was perfect and Holy and could pay the cost of our sins.
Instead of being ashamed of us He will call us brothers ( and sisters LOL).
It also shows how complete a work was done, to the point He is not ashamed to call us His brethren.
A good thing to think about when tempted to be fearful or hurt of the lack of acceptance of others......I ( we) are excepted by God.....sooooooo
And then again the writer quotes from the old testament Psalm 22:22
Jesus actually delights in us!!!
How amazing is that?!!
and the 2nd quote in this passage is from Isaiah 8:18
Where it says God gave Him 'children' ( believers).
Verses 6, 7, 8 “But there is a place where someone has testified: “What is man that you are mindful of him, the son of man that you care for him? You made him a little lower than the angels; you crowned him with glory and honor and put everything under his feet.” In putting everything under him, God left nothing that is not subject to him. Yet at present we do not see everything subject to him.” (Hebrews 2:6–8)
comes from Job 7:17, psalm 8: 4-6, even Genesis 1:26:27
““What is man that you make so much of him, that you give him so much attention,” (Job 7:17)
“what is man that you are mindful of him, the son of man that you care for him? You made him a little lower than the heavenly beings and crowned him with glory and honor. You made him ruler over the works of your hands; you put everything under his feet:” (Psalm 8:4–6)
“Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground.” So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.” (Genesis 1:26–27) I agree those verses come from the first two, but not from the verses in Genesis. While Genesis agrees that God made men to rule over his creation, the scriptures aren't enough alike to say the one came from the other. But I can understand where you would think it was similar.
You did a really good job on this portion!
Hebrew 2:14-18
Jesus had to become human in order to live a perfect life so He can save the children ( us believers).
We are flesh and blood but sadly the body has aches and pain, sins, temptations
and since Jesus came to save men ( and not angels) He had to be made like men in every respect....
even to the point of dying
Satan's biggest weapon ( and man's greatest fear) is death, and Jesus robbed the devil of it by His death and resurrection.
It was through the devil's temptation, that sin and death entered into the world when Adam and Eve sinned,
but to those Jesus saves, they will not enter into the 2nd death of Hell, but live eternity with Him.
It was not that Jesus killed satan at the cross,
but that ,the devil's power of death over the believers was destroyed,
( even tho their sin filled physical body will die), t
hey will live eternally ( with a new perfect sin free body in eternity future). Our sin is forgiven and Jesus has conquered death.
For Jesus, God the Son , to have become an angel would have been an unbelievable stooping of His nature,
but He did not do so , because He was not helping angels,
so instead he stooped even waaaaaay lower and became a man.
As an angel He could not atone for our sins.....no angel could do that for mankind.
Angels cannot fully sympathize with man,
but when Jesus became fully man ( as well as being fully God)
He could sympathize with our weaknesses,
being tempted in all things as we are ( yet He never sinned).
He has real mercy and love towards us....
"because he himself has suffered when tempted, he is able to help those who are being tempted."
For some reason this passage about angels reminds me of the incident I have told you about a few times before, only....this time thinking about it....I thought of how even IF it really had been angels....how different it would have been if it had been Jesus in the flesh that almost evening.
I told you about the guy who picked me up as I was hitch hiking....only he took me not where I wanted to go but somewhere where all I could see in any direction was miles and miles of flat land ( no houses or farms visible....
And then there was a big police station in the middle of nowhere and 4 or 5 police standing outside and a stop light that turned red.....so I was able to get out of this car ( having for once understood I was in grave danger).
I always wonder if the off duty policeman was really an angel.....and lets say he was
He gave me great 'logic':
telling me it was almost dark
(I was trying to hitch a ride back to where I had wanted to go in the first place)
and that all the guy had to do was wait awhile and then turn around and pick me back up!!
That sort of reminded me of how a real angel might not have the full compassion of Jesus
Who if He had picked me up that night.....I imagine the conversation might have been very different because of the great love and compassion He would have for me.
I think He 'might' have said something like: ( tho of course I cannot speak for my Lord really)
Oh beloved child, it breaks my heart you continue to put yourself in harms way, and allow yourself to be continually abused.....
Do you not know how much I love you? I died for you...you are precious to me
This life you are leading now, is full of darkness, pain, ugliness, etc.
This is NOT what I want for you...there is no beauty or love in the life you are living now
And so on....
which to me is just a small example of the difference between the angel ( who was logical)
( and, who IF really an angel,
God sent to save me from either instant death
or a horrible existence captured by this guy.... and then death)
And Jesus, who has so much love, pity and compassion
that He took all my sins
and paid what was the equivalent of an eternity in Hell, for me.
 Very good! You're doing great!  |
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,397
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Hebrews
Oct 18, 2019 11:32:41 GMT -5
Post by fearnot on Oct 18, 2019 11:32:41 GMT -5
Hebrews 3: 1-6
Having shown Jesus as better than prophets, and angels the writer is now going to show Jesus is so much better than Moses.
Well it shouldn't have been so, but in a way, I was a little surprised at being called a 'holy' brethren and yet, sanctification ( being made more like Jesus) is what is going on.
I have to thank you so much for all your help and encouragement in this area for me ( of course in many others as well).
I have been able to talk a bit ( just chit chat) with the two neighbors we've talked about....but you helped with my attitude so much and to some extent they must sense it.
Anyway, back to the text :-)
it goes onto say we share in a heavenly calling.....
I have to keep reminding myself, this world is NOT my home.....my home is in Heaven .
and I am to consider Jesus ( more and more) Keep my mind set on Jesus....what He has done for me, who He is etc. I will be always learning more about Him thru all eternity.
When I am tempted to look at my situation, circumstances etc in this world and maybe be tempted to be down, I need to immediately change my focus ( I should have already have done so) to Jesus.
It reminded me of when I am looking at an image I am going to paint....I study it very carefully, looking at all the little details....well, I should do waaaaaay more than that, when thinking about Jesus.
As an apostle He bring His final Word to us, and as a priest He brings us to Himself.
In a sense Jesus was faithful of course God the Father ,
as a man on earth He , in another sense, as God the Son ,
He was faithful to Himself.
The comparing of Jesus to Moses, who the Jews honor so highly, might seem a bit strange, but the point is about being faithful.
Moses as only fully human, was considered extremely faithful to God....but He did fail on several occasions....
Jesus never did, and so "has been counted worthy of more glory than Moses".
I can't help but think of Creation vs evolution when reading verses 3 & 4.
No one really believes a house builds itself, or a computer builds itself, of a 747 builds itself over billions of years laying in a garbage dump
and yet, they manage to believe that the universe came into being out of 'nothing'
and then inanimate elements by random chance brought forth life
and life thru random accidents, mutations etc.
made a human brain which to this day cannot be duplicated.....
Instead the truth is:
"the builder of a house has more honor than the house itself.
(For every house is built by someone, but the builder of all things is God".
Moses did not own the house of believers but He was faithful to God who did own them.
Moses was a servant, Jesus is the owner., but while on earth He was faithful as a son over God the Father's house.
We as the 'house' need to 'hold fast'....our Christian life is not one moment of a prayer and then we live like we belong to the devil. To endure is our proof we are saved...it is God's power that allows us to be able to do so.
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Post by Cindy on Oct 19, 2019 9:43:54 GMT -5
Hebrews 3: 1-6
Having shown Jesus as better than prophets, and angels the writer is now going to show Jesus is so much better than Moses.
Well it shouldn't have been so, but in a way, I was a little surprised at being called a 'holy' brethren and yet, sanctification ( being made more like Jesus) is what is going on.
I have to thank you so much for all your help and encouragement in this area for me ( of course in many others as well).
I have been able to talk a bit ( just chit chat) with the two neighbors we've talked about....but you helped with my attitude so much and to some extent they must sense it.
Anyway, back to the text :-)
it goes onto say we share in a heavenly calling.....
I have to keep reminding myself, this world is NOT my home.....my home is in Heaven .
and I am to consider Jesus ( more and more) Keep my mind set on Jesus....what He has done for me, who He is etc. I will be always learning more about Him thru all eternity.
When I am tempted to look at my situation, circumstances etc in this world and maybe be tempted to be down, I need to immediately change my focus ( I should have already have done so) to Jesus.
It reminded me of when I am looking at an image I am going to paint....I study it very carefully, looking at all the little details....well, I should do waaaaaay more than that, when thinking about Jesus.
As an apostle He bring His final Word to us, and as a priest He brings us to Himself.
In a sense Jesus was faithful of course God the Father ,
as a man on earth He , in another sense, as God the Son ,
He was faithful to Himself.
The comparing of Jesus to Moses, who the Jews honor so highly, might seem a bit strange, but the point is about being faithful.
Moses as only fully human, was considered extremely faithful to God....but He did fail on several occasions....
Jesus never did, and so "has been counted worthy of more glory than Moses".
I can't help but think of Creation vs evolution when reading verses 3 & 4.
No one really believes a house builds itself, or a computer builds itself, of a 747 builds itself over billions of years laying in a garbage dump
and yet, they manage to believe that the universe came into being out of 'nothing'
and then inanimate elements by random chance brought forth life
and life thru random accidents, mutations etc.
made a human brain which to this day cannot be duplicated.....
Instead the truth is:
"the builder of a house has more honor than the house itself.
(For every house is built by someone, but the builder of all things is God".
Moses did not own the house of believers but He was faithful to God who did own them.
Moses was a servant, Jesus is the owner., but while on earth He was faithful as a son over God the Father's house.
We as the 'house' need to 'hold fast'....our Christian life is not one moment of a prayer and then we live like we belong to the devil. To endure is our proof we are saved...it is God's power that allows us to be able to do so.
I'm glad you've been able to chat with your neighbors lately. I'm sure they have noticed the change in you - which may give you a great opening for the future sometime, as you can tell them that the change they noticed was caused by the Lord as you contemplated His Word.
I think we all have to frequently remind ourselves that our home is in heaven. But the other thing that most of us need to also remind ourselves of is that heaven isn't "someplace up in the clouds", and isn't some kind of immaterial place. We aren't going to be a bunch of ghosts, nor will we all be sitting around on clouds playing harps. Instead, we will be going to a very real place...a place we will be able to see, touch, taste, hear, smell, and interact with, just as we will be able to interact with each other in our very real bodies. New Jerusalem will be more then large enough for all of us all by itself, but God will also make us a brand new Heaven and earth, brand new planets never touched by sin, for us to live and play on too.
I'd like to look at this again though, just quickly as it's such an amazing verse....
“Therefore, holy brothers, who share in the heavenly calling, fix your thoughts on Jesus, the apostle and high priest whom we confess.” (Hebrews 3:1) First, as you pointed out, we are called "holy", not "becoming holy" but simply, "holy". Wow! I know I sure don't feel holy 99.9% of the time! But we are holy because God has made us holy. Since God is not bound by time, He sees us as we will be when we get to heaven, and our transformation and salvation have been completed. It's kind of ironic, because people today are all wanting to know the future and try finding it out through occult means which God condemns. But those who are saved can know the future because God tells us what is going to happen to us personally as well as to the unsaved and the world in general. For us, we will be 100% Holy! What an amazing and wonderful thing to reflect on!
Second we're told that we share in the heavenly calling. That's also spoken of here, “Brothers, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead, I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus.” (Philippians 3:13–14) which shows us that while we most definitely will be made holy, and be made Christ like, we are also supposed to be pursuing Christlikeness ourselves, by reading God's Word, reflecting on it, praying, and applying His Word to our life. It's a constant thing of walking a way with the Lord, falling down, being picked up and dusted off, and starting over again to walk with Him...only to fall down, be picked up and start again LOL. But that's what this life is about. Constantly straining toward being more like Jesus. We tend to see our failings more then our successes, but eventually, when we look back at our life, we do see how much we've changed. Paul mentions this calling too: “encouraging, comforting and urging you to live lives worthy of God, who calls you into his kingdom and glory.” (1 Thessalonians 2:12) which shows us again that we will fail to live this way at times. But our Lord will forgive us and we can start again every time we confess our sins, which makes our God even more amazing! This also mentions that we're not only called into His Kingdom, but into His glory as well! We will quite literally reign over people, or countries, or towns or whatever...it depends on how well we obeyed Jesus here. That's how "real" heaven is!
Finally, the author tells us to fix our eyes on Jesus, and gives us two examples of what we can reflect on about Jesus - that He is an apostle, sent by the Father, and that He is our high priest. Jesus filled both of these positions (and still fills the one of our High Priest) in order to help us. So when we reflect on these, we can reflect on the ways Jesus helped us by being our high priest and by being an Apostle. Now, for the real, "finally" lol, if we pay attention as we read the Bible, we'll be surprised by the many different ways and times the Lord tells us what we should think about and what we shouldn't allow in our minds.
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,397
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Hebrews
Oct 19, 2019 11:21:53 GMT -5
Post by fearnot on Oct 19, 2019 11:21:53 GMT -5
That's a great point, we already know what the future will bring, no need for occult ( which is either phony, at best....or demonic).
I don't feel holy 99.999 percent of the time LOL
So there, I finally 'beat' you at something....
OH
ummmmmm
but it not a good thing sigh! ha ha
But....... the great thing is, we both will be 100 % holy!!!
Yeah!!!, that is sooooo much better!!!!
It made me think of a toddler ( your description of our 'walk' in this life.....fall down, get back up and toddle a bit more and boom! fall down again, but toddlers do not give up, they are determined to walk!!!
I also really loved your description about the New Heaven and earth and even Heaven now!!
I did not sleep great last night awake in the middle of the night for several hours, and in pain.
Today, we are going to some friends of Hossanah's to celebrate Vanessa's birthday
( belatedly) so I have to shower, get Vanessa's gift packaged etc.
But I keep falling asleep
So this day's lesson might be shorter.
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,397
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Hebrews
Oct 19, 2019 11:40:31 GMT -5
Post by fearnot on Oct 19, 2019 11:40:31 GMT -5
A Rest for the People of God
Hebrews: 1-7
Jesus said:
“Come to me, all of you who labor and are burdened, and I will give you rest"
Matthew 11:28
I am always up for a nice rest!!
However the writer gives a warning since Jesus is soooooo much better than the prophets, the angels, and Moses....we are not to harden our hearts ( taken from Psalm 95)!
I thought of
"The dog returns to its own vomit, and the sow, after washing herself, returns to wallow in the mire.” 2 Peter 2:22
He uses Psalm 95 as an example of how the Jews harden their hearts in the wilderness ( after escaping from Egypt).
Some people say: If I saw a 'real' miracle from God, then I would believe,
and yet,
the Jews in the wilderness, had seen many such miracles and yet they harden their hearts.
Miracles do not always ( perhaps seldom if ever) produce real faith/belief
so we need to take care!!
Plus God does not always make it easy, and it often involves a long period of time.
The writer states an unbelieving heart is an evil heart.....that is certainly something to beware of!! It can lead you to fall away from God and that is truly frightening...and a very sad and horrifying state indeed!!
You can go to Hell easily by falling away, but you can't get to Heaven that way.
One help ( and maybe one of the reason for not neglecting the fellowship of believers, the church) is we can help and encourage each other......
like you do here, for me :-)
Daily ( as much as it is possible).
We ARE our brothers keepers ( in answer to Cain's question).
Thus we can help each other endure to the end as we are all part of the body of Jesus.
We encourage it others in love of the Lord, applying His word to our lives etc.
In our hanging in we also become more assured of our faith.
Sadly even tho the Jews came out of Egypt, they rebelled over and over, therefore they were not allowed to go into the promised land.
This does not mean, if a true believer has a moment of unbelief ( many believers may have) that they will thus never go to Heaven...but it is a warning of the seriousness of unbelief,and we might be disciplined.
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,397
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Hebrews
Oct 20, 2019 11:06:49 GMT -5
Post by fearnot on Oct 20, 2019 11:06:49 GMT -5
Hebrews 4: 8-
The 'real' rest, the ultimate rest, the best, eternal spiritual rest....... is of course Jesus!!
It should be a given, that Moses's 'rest' ( not really a real rest at all)
or Joshua's ( temporary rest from physical war)
or anyone else's
is no comparison at all
The 'rest' of Canaan was a shadow, a 'type', a symbol of the true Sabbath....our eternal rest in Jesus.
Therefore Let us pay attention and be diligent and not drift into disobedience
However, this is not a command to do 'works' to be saved
It is be diligent to 'rest' in faith and belief in what Jesus has done, and not to drift into sin of disobedience.
The next verse is one we often memorize as Christians,
and for sure
God's Word is powerful and can change us
but it is also a powerful Word of warning against sin, and not to drift into sin....
discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart.
And also a warning to enter into God's rest thru Jesus.
What is also totally amazing and miraculous is the Bible is alive, as in 'alive'!!!
It can go right into the heart convicting a person of sin, and cutting it out.
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Hebrews
Oct 21, 2019 9:45:23 GMT -5
Post by Cindy on Oct 21, 2019 9:45:23 GMT -5
That's a great point, we already know what the future will bring, no need for occult ( which is either phony, at best....or demonic).
I don't feel holy 99.999 percent of the time LOL
So there, I finally 'beat' you at something....
OH
ummmmmm
but it not a good thing sigh! ha ha
But....... the great thing is, we both will be 100 % holy!!!
Yeah!!!, that is sooooo much better!!!!
It made me think of a toddler ( your description of our 'walk' in this life.....fall down, get back up and toddle a bit more and boom! fall down again, but toddlers do not give up, they are determined to walk!!!
I also really loved your description about the New Heaven and earth and even Heaven now!!
I did not sleep great last night awake in the middle of the night for several hours, and in pain.
Today, we are going to some friends of Hossanah's to celebrate Vanessa's birthday
( belatedly) so I have to shower, get Vanessa's gift packaged etc.
But I keep falling asleep
So this day's lesson might be shorter.
A Rest for the People of God
Hebrews: 1-7
Jesus said:
“Come to me, all of you who labor and are burdened, and I will give you rest"
Matthew 11:28
I am always up for a nice rest!!
However the writer gives a warning since Jesus is soooooo much better than the prophets, the angels, and Moses....we are not to harden our hearts ( taken from Psalm 95)!
I thought of
"The dog returns to its own vomit, and the sow, after washing herself, returns to wallow in the mire.” 2 Peter 2:22
He uses Psalm 95 as an example of how the Jews harden their hearts in the wilderness ( after escaping from Egypt).
Some people say: If I saw a 'real' miracle from God, then I would believe,
and yet,
the Jews in the wilderness, had seen many such miracles and yet they harden their hearts.
Miracles do not always ( perhaps seldom if ever) produce real faith/belief
so we need to take care!!
Plus God does not always make it easy, and it often involves a long period of time.
The writer states an unbelieving heart is an evil heart.....that is certainly something to beware of!! It can lead you to fall away from God and that is truly frightening...and a very sad and horrifying state indeed!!
You can go to Hell easily by falling away, but you can't get to Heaven that way.
One help ( and maybe one of the reason for not neglecting the fellowship of believers, the church) is we can help and encourage each other......
like you do here, for me :-)
Daily ( as much as it is possible).
We ARE our brothers keepers ( in answer to Cain's question).
Thus we can help each other endure to the end as we are all part of the body of Jesus.
We encourage it others in love of the Lord, applying His word to our lives etc.
In our hanging in we also become more assured of our faith.
Sadly even tho the Jews came out of Egypt, they rebelled over and over, therefore they were not allowed to go into the promised land.
This does not mean, if a true believer has a moment of unbelief ( many believers may have) that they will thus never go to Heaven...but it is a warning of the seriousness of unbelief,and we might be disciplined.
Hebrews 4: 8-
The 'real' rest, the ultimate rest, the best, eternal spiritual rest....... is of course Jesus!!
It should be a given, that Moses's 'rest' ( not really a real rest at all)
or Joshua's ( temporary rest from physical war)
or anyone else's
is no comparison at all
The 'rest' of Canaan was a shadow, a 'type', a symbol of the true Sabbath....our eternal rest in Jesus.
Therefore Let us pay attention and be diligent and not drift into disobedience
However, this is not a command to do 'works' to be saved
It is be diligent to 'rest' in faith and belief in what Jesus has done, and not to drift into sin of disobedience.
The next verse is one we often memorize as Christians,
and for sure
God's Word is powerful and can change us
but it is also a powerful Word of warning against sin, and not to drift into sin....
discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart.
And also a warning to enter into God's rest thru Jesus.
What is also totally amazing and miraculous is the Bible is alive, as in 'alive'!!!
It can go right into the heart convicting a person of sin, and cutting it out.
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,397
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Hebrews
Oct 21, 2019 11:17:33 GMT -5
Post by fearnot on Oct 21, 2019 11:17:33 GMT -5
ahhh you said: a permanent rest....
what a joy to look forward to!!!
Not a lazy rest ( which I sometimes like)
because we won't be 'tired' or in pain etc.
on the other hand
we won't be bothered by sin any more....ever ever again
not our own sin or anybody else's sin
I am looking forward to that!!!
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,397
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Hebrews
Oct 21, 2019 11:58:37 GMT -5
Post by fearnot on Oct 21, 2019 11:58:37 GMT -5
Hebrews 5: 1-6
First off the high priest had to be a 'man'....
(not a woman
or
in this day and age
any of yhr 'sp'called' the 51 'sexes'
or more I've heard 80 something or even more
it keeps growing according to people's mental illness, fantasy, sin or whatever)
nor was he chosen from angels
He had to be compassionate
Chosen by God
and learned thru suffering
Why is this of any importance to us today?
Because the more we know about Jesus, the closer our relationship with Him will be.
Actually our pastor is doing a study on the triune God we have spent 3 or is it 4 Sunday's on God the Father so far
but we will get to Jesus and the Holy spirit
However, this passage/verses is teaching us about Jesus.
it also points to why we need a 'high priest' ( Jesus our Savior)
because of our sins....
We see Jesus Holiness and majesty and our wretchedness and sins.
Jesus went thru life experiencing what people go thru ( and could sympathize and have pity and compassion on us),
but ....He, never sinned.
Old testament priests had to offer sacrifices or themselves but Jesus as pure, holy, without sin did not, He had perfect superior qualifications
But, not only that,
we are in Jesus and He in us, therefore we are a chosen generation.
and.....
a Royal priesthood as 1 Peter 2:9 says.
Jesus did not exhalt himself ( He was to suffer and die) but rather gave God the Father the glory.
No angel or man is called the Son of God, by God the Father.
This is taken from Psalm 2:7
Then quoting from Psalm 110:4
The writer points out Jesus was not a priest according the the Levitical order, but was totally different according to the order of Melchizedek ( a greater order than Levi)...and it forever.
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Hebrews
Oct 22, 2019 9:50:27 GMT -5
Post by Cindy on Oct 22, 2019 9:50:27 GMT -5
You're probably writing your post now. So I'll have to wait till tomorrow to see it I guess. Hope you have a good day!
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,397
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Hebrews
Oct 22, 2019 12:31:52 GMT -5
Post by fearnot on Oct 22, 2019 12:31:52 GMT -5
Hebrews 5:7-10
Jesus has always been 100% God ( He had no beginning, and has always been all knowing, all powerful, infinite, and eternal)
However, in order to save those men and women who believed in Him,
He became also 100% man ( he did not stop being 100% God, but He limited himself while alive on earth as a man).
And He was NOT here as an angel.
Being a man here gave Him much sorrow ( to see His creation wallowing in sin).
As a man, He pleaded ( even with tears) with God the Father, concerning our weaknesses of sin ( as our High priest)
I have read it was not that Jesus was so much praying not to die ( He came for that very reason) but praying to be taken out of death....to be resurrected.
And God the Father heard God the Son.
Nevertheless, Jesus was not spared from suffering being tortured but also something no one could do suffer eternity in hell for millions or billions of believers.
Jesus was of course always obedient as a man...but He also learned thru terrible suffering to continue to be obedient....all the way to the death on the cross.
Tho I sometimes joke about not having the rocking chair I thought older people would get....
it seems that on a silly minor minuscule level,
believers often also get harder lessons in obedience as we grow
( lessons that may involve a bit of physical pain...not the cross, and certainly not spending eternity in hell for billions of souls),
loss of loved ones ( but not being abandoned by God) etc.
Jesus was made perfect....He was already perfect as God, but He was made perfect as man by always being obedient...even in great suffering. If we too are to grow we find that suffering is needed, few grow when everything is easy and rose petals.
Also He became our perfect high priest and sacrifice for our sin.
When we have salvation, one proof of it is we obey Jesus....it shows we are believing and trusting in Him
the writer comes back to the order of Melchizedek and Jesus as it's high priest. ( Psalm 110:4)
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,397
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Hebrews
Oct 23, 2019 10:36:52 GMT -5
Post by fearnot on Oct 23, 2019 10:36:52 GMT -5
Hebrews 5: 11-14
Warning Against Apostasy
It seems that the writer knows that many of the hears have become dull of hearing, and have not grown in faith but are like 'baby' Christians, and are in danger and he is warning them.
They should have already been able to teach others, but instead, like babies need the basics and are in need of someone to teach them.
The writer most likely wanted to get into a 'meaty' discussion of Melchizedek ( pointing out things like: he had no father or mother, no beginning or end of days, a priest forever etc.)
In any case, he had a lot to say, but could not to babes in Christ.
Adults acting like children is not a pretty sight, Peter Pan is maybe is fine as a story, but kind of pathetic in real life. I actually had a friend a few years back who made it clear to me, that was her goal...never to grow up. This is different than being the 'trusting' God like a child, by the way....this is an adult who does not want to grow....and thus often does not fully trusts God either ( this has been a big problem for me).
He could have easily been talking to a great many Christians of our day.
It seems the hears had a good start but then became dull of hearing and stopped growing.
They may have been in danger of backsliding....going back to some of the Jewish laws and ways. Maybe the persecution made then afraid also.
But a first sign in this danger is dullness to God's Word.
You are either growing or 'dulling'.
Maybe that's why so many false teachers of today get a good foothold among the churches of today.....many of the folks want nothing but 'baby talk'....and only if it 'sweet' ( you deserve to be rich, well etc.)
So instead of becoming teachers, they gather for themselves those who would give them babies milk.
I see this is some of our worship songs.....its not necessarily that they are apostate or worldly, but they often are geared towards baby Christians, instead of some of the great old hymns that were really 'meaty'.
Its not that I hate them, in fact, they are often 'catchy', have a nice beat and so on....but after repeating the same line more that 4 times or more.....it does seem more like for babies and children...
milky and not meaty.
I watched a video where a person was critiquing some of today's worships song and they repeat a line 17 times!!! Now I get it, that the idea may be to truly mean the words....so singing it more than once, may have that effect.....but 17 times?
People today want a watered down, dumb downed Christianity....they don't want things to get to deep, besides it just causes strife.....so they stay unskilled in the word, and remain babies, who are in grave danger of wolves coming in and snatching them.
Babies can't make good decisions.
, they often do not know good from evil
so, ummmm no, correct doctrine is vitally important.
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Hebrews
Oct 23, 2019 12:19:33 GMT -5
Post by Cindy on Oct 23, 2019 12:19:33 GMT -5
ahhh you said: a permanent rest....
what a joy to look forward to!!!
Not a lazy rest ( which I sometimes like)
because we won't be 'tired' or in pain etc.
on the other hand
we won't be bothered by sin any more....ever ever again
not our own sin or anybody else's sin
I am looking forward to that!!!
Hebrews 5: 1-6
First off the high priest had to be a 'man'....
(not a woman
or
in this day and age
any of yhr 'sp'called' the 51 'sexes'
huh? what does this mean?
or more I've heard 80 something or even more
it keeps growing according to people's mental illness, fantasy, sin or whatever)
nor was he chosen from angels
He had to be compassionate
Chosen by God
and learned thru suffering
Yes, and it's very important to note that he learned from suffering - which you did say. You just didn't say how that's important for us and why it is....so you might want to cover that too.
Why is this of any importance to us today?
Because the more we know about Jesus, the closer our relationship with Him will be.
Actually our pastor is doing a study on the triune God we have spent 3 or is it 4 Sunday's on God the Father so far
but we will get to Jesus and the Holy spirit
However, this passage/verses is teaching us about Jesus.
it also points to why we need a 'high priest' ( Jesus our Savior)
because of our sins....
We see Jesus Holiness and majesty and our wretchedness and sins.
Jesus went thru life experiencing what people go thru ( and could sympathize and have pity and compassion on us),
but ....He, never sinned.
Old testament priests had to offer sacrifices or themselves but Jesus as pure, holy, without sin did not, He had perfect superior qualifications
But, not only that,
we are in Jesus and He in us, therefore we are a chosen generation.
and.....
a Royal priesthood as 1 Peter 2:9 says.
Jesus did not exhalt himself ( He was to suffer and die) but rather gave God the Father the glory.
No angel or man is called the Son of God, by God the Father.
This is taken from Psalm 2:7
Then quoting from Psalm 110:4
The writer points out Jesus was not a priest according the the Levitical order, but was totally different according to the order of Melchizedek ( a greater order than Levi)...and it forever.
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Hebrews
Oct 24, 2019 8:30:39 GMT -5
Post by Cindy on Oct 24, 2019 8:30:39 GMT -5
Hebrews 5:7-10
Jesus has always been 100% God ( He had no beginning, and has always been all knowing, all powerful, infinite, and eternal)
However, in order to save those men and women who believed in Him,
He became also 100% man ( he did not stop being 100% God, but He limited himself while alive on earth as a man).
And He was NOT here as an angel.
Being a man here gave Him much sorrow ( to see His creation wallowing in sin).
As a man, He pleaded ( even with tears) with God the Father, concerning our weaknesses of sin ( as our High priest)
I have read it was not that Jesus was so much praying not to die ( He came for that very reason) but praying to be taken out of death....to be resurrected.
And God the Father heard God the Son.
Nevertheless, Jesus was not spared from suffering being tortured but also something no one could do suffer eternity in hell for millions or billions of believers.
Jesus was of course always obedient as a man...but He also learned thru terrible suffering to continue to be obedient....all the way to the death on the cross.
Tho I sometimes joke about not having the rocking chair I thought older people would get....
it seems that on a silly minor minuscule level,
believers often also get harder lessons in obedience as we grow
( lessons that may involve a bit of physical pain...not the cross, and certainly not spending eternity in hell for billions of souls),
loss of loved ones ( but not being abandoned by God) etc.
Jesus was made perfect....He was already perfect as God, but He was made perfect as man by always being obedient...even in great suffering. If we too are to grow we find that suffering is needed, few grow when everything is easy and rose petals.
Also He became our perfect high priest and sacrifice for our sin.
When we have salvation, one proof of it is we obey Jesus....it shows we are believing and trusting in Him
the writer comes back to the order of Melchizedek and Jesus as it's high priest. ( Psalm 110:4)
Hebrews 5: 11-14
Warning Against Apostasy
It seems that the writer knows that many of the hears have become dull of hearing, and have not grown in faith but are like 'baby' Christians, and are in danger and he is warning them.
They should have already been able to teach others, but instead, like babies need the basics and are in need of someone to teach them.
The writer most likely wanted to get into a 'meaty' discussion of Melchizedek ( pointing out things like: he had no father or mother, no beginning or end of days, a priest forever etc.)
In any case, he had a lot to say, but could not to babes in Christ.
Adults acting like children is not a pretty sight, Peter Pan is maybe is fine as a story, but kind of pathetic in real life. I actually had a friend a few years back who made it clear to me, that was her goal...never to grow up. This is different than being the 'trusting' God like a child, by the way....this is an adult who does not want to grow....and thus often does not fully trusts God either ( this has been a big problem for me).
He could have easily been talking to a great many Christians of our day.
It seems the hears had a good start but then became dull of hearing and stopped growing.
They may have been in danger of backsliding....going back to some of the Jewish laws and ways. Maybe the persecution made then afraid also.
But a first sign in this danger is dullness to God's Word.
You are either growing or 'dulling'.
Maybe that's why so many false teachers of today get a good foothold among the churches of today.....many of the folks want nothing but 'baby talk'....and only if it 'sweet' ( you deserve to be rich, well etc.)
So instead of becoming teachers, they gather for themselves those who would give them babies milk.
I see this is some of our worship songs.....its not necessarily that they are apostate or worldly, but they often are geared towards baby Christians, instead of some of the great old hymns that were really 'meaty'.
Its not that I hate them, in fact, they are often 'catchy', have a nice beat and so on....but after repeating the same line more that 4 times or more.....it does seem more like for babies and children...
milky and not meaty.
I watched a video where a person was critiquing some of today's worships song and they repeat a line 17 times!!! Now I get it, that the idea may be to truly mean the words....so singing it more than once, may have that effect.....but 17 times?
People today want a watered down, dumb downed Christianity....they don't want things to get to deep, besides it just causes strife.....so they stay unskilled in the word, and remain babies, who are in grave danger of wolves coming in and snatching them.
Babies can't make good decisions.
, they often do not know good from evil
so, ummmm no, correct doctrine is vitally important.
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,397
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Hebrews
Oct 24, 2019 10:12:09 GMT -5
Post by fearnot on Oct 24, 2019 10:12:09 GMT -5
I really liked your reminder....it means studying the Bible on a daily basis!!!
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,397
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Hebrews
Oct 24, 2019 12:04:55 GMT -5
Post by fearnot on Oct 24, 2019 12:04:55 GMT -5
Hebrews 6:1-8
Leaving the elementary doctrine of Christ does not mean, forget the foundation ( nor the Old Testament), but rather, stop being baby Christians,
and move on the deeper things, grow more mature and more like Jesus, have a deeper relationship with Him.
I think today many are content being 'babes' in Christ, after all, growing up can mean some work, and some discomforts. They are happy to be saved and going to Heaven but doing a Bible study each day, is some work.
But the writer is warning there is are grave dangers in staying a baby....
so go on to solid food.
Predators rather go for babies who are weak.... than fight a strong adult.
If we have truly repented we not only have permanently changed our minds about sin, but our behavior as well. The ceremonial washing in the OT pointed to this.
The Jews had ( and have) a 'works based' ethics, as do many religions and cults.
If your good deeds are more than your bad,
if you are 'basically' a 'good' person and not a mass murderer,
they think God will let them into Heaven....
but if you do not have the Savior ( Jesus who paid for all your many sins) then they are 'dead' works
( even if your 'works' look good on the outside, there is sin, in some
way attached...maybe pride, boasting etc etc.),
and you will not get to Heaven but rather eternal judgement.
Verse 4 might be very confusing....
some have taken it to mean a saved person can lose their salvation, but that is not possible.
However, some people can hear the gospel, and really understand it fully, and yet, they come to the conclusion that it was fitting, right, that Jesus should die.....because they deem Him guilty!
That person cannot be saved, because they understood clearly but totally turned and walked away from being saved....they really cannot understand any better, they made a choice with open eyes.
This is not about a believer who truly wants to do right, who love the Lord and want to be with Jesus for all eternity...
but yet sins.....
their heart is not hardened against Jesus.
This is a warning to those who fully consciously reject the gospel ( it is not they they do not understand it...
they have been around it,
but to fall away means they were never saved to begin with.
Those who never go on....'baby' Christians ( and I pray they really are) need to be in fear of eventually walking away because they were never really saved. In other words, they might really be baby Christians or never were saved....but to be sure, one way is to grow.
The wheat and the tares are often together in the church.....some tares remain, but some just walk away.
There has been a popular worship leader who have been in the news lately who have done just that ( one hillsong leader
and a 'famous pastor who said he felt so 'free' having abandon Christianity.....it says he never was saved....
as to the hillsong guy, He has changed his words to say he is 'struggling'
but, no matter what songs he wrote or sang, no matter how 'spiritual' they were or how charismatic he was....
if
his 'struggle' were to end in his too walking away,
like the pastor did
then, he too was never saved.....not that they 'lost' their salvation.
It is possible for a real Christian to have a severe 'struggle' but one needs to be more in the Word, in prayer, with other Christians, etc.
But these two men obviously shared in much of the goodness of being in the church....
as did Judas when he was with Christ, he tasted the heavenly gift,
but Judas was never a born again believer tho he walked 3 years with Jesus.
The 'falling away is not from salvation ,
but from the truth you have clear knowledge of.
There is a danger of 'knowledge' without faith
( some people might feel proud because they have a superior brain and they know more about the Bible, than many believers....but they do not have the faith, change of heart etc.of a true believer with less knowledge )
Surely the pastor who walked away, had a pretty good knowledge of Christianity.....
but He wanted to be 'free' to ...
well, sin, drink and be merry.....he was never saved.
And as such, they hold Jesus in contempt and believe He should have been crucified as guilty....they hearts are totally hardened.
Thus they are cursed and headed for Hell.
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,397
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Hebrews
Oct 25, 2019 10:09:37 GMT -5
Post by fearnot on Oct 25, 2019 10:09:37 GMT -5
Hebrews 6: 9-14
Tho some needed the previous warnings, not all did, and so now the writer talks to them.
Whereas having a knowledge of the things of God will not save anyone, ( without faith in Jesus),
the greater thing is salvation ( not just head knowledge), and the things which accompany salvation,like:
"the love that you have shown for his name in serving the saints" .
After being saved, compassionate, loving acts are evidences of that salvation ( even if facing many hardships of varying degrees).
And God will not forget our service and sacrifice...for His name and His glory.
The writer encourages them to keep on with the same diligence, perseverance and earnestness..
and to have the have the full assurance of hope until the end
( having total confidence in God that He will keep His promises ( not I 'hope' so, but knowing God does not lie).
Another reason is so that they do not become sluggish
but rather
imitators of those who through faith and patience inherit the promises.
Being dull in hearing, leads to being dull and sluggish in conduct,and if we want full assurance, we need to preserve and not become lazy.
This does not mean we are always looking for some grand spiritual thing to do....it's the perseverance in the small things ( doing for others whatever our health will allow), consistent in our prayer and Bible study etc.
Of course we want to be first and foremost more and more like Jesus, but we can also learn and be imitators of those who trusted and believed in God.
God made a promise to Abraham that he would have a child...talk about having patience, he waited 24 years and still no son! Nevertheless, he did in fact, get a son.
God is trustworthy and keeps His promises ( tho sometimes there is a waiting period....a tad longer than we might wish, maybe).
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Hebrews
Oct 25, 2019 10:51:11 GMT -5
Post by Cindy on Oct 25, 2019 10:51:11 GMT -5
I've been trying to reply to this and to the private message for over an hour and it just won't let me for some reason. If I click on the reply button so I can quote your posts, etc. then it says the site times out and won't load it. So I'm going to try and reply in the quick reply box, and hope that works. But I'll be smart and copy my reply and email it to myself so I'll have it on my kindle. Then I can try posting it from my kindle and see if that works.
I would think that you, and everyone else would be sick to death of hearing me harp on the fact that God demands that we be in His Word daily. I'm sick of saying it myself LOL. But I desperately want other people to realize it and get started doing it so they too can begin to reap the benefits from it. And so I continue to harp on it....
What you've said about leaving the elementary teachings of Christ is very good! I'd like to include though, for those who may not know it, that the author is actually speaking about teachings from the Old Testament about Christ.
I also don't understand where you got this from: "However, some people can hear the gospel, and really understand it fully, and yet, they come to the conclusion that it was fitting, right, that Jesus should die.....because they deem Him guilty! That person cannot be saved, because they understood clearly but totally turned and walked away from being saved...."
I don't see in those verses anywhere where it could indicate that someone thought that Jesus deserved to die or that they saw Him as guilty. If anyone did think those things they most certainly would NOT have understood the gospel at all, because the gospel stands on the fact that Jesus is pure and sinless and not deserving of death, but that we are sinful and do deserve it.
They had been enlightened - in other words, they'd been taught about Jesus, so they had the knowledge, but having the knowledge doesn't equal being saved. Also, having an experience of tasting the heavenly gift doesn't equal salvation. (Remember the different kinds of "faith" we talked about) Being partakers of the Holy Spirit, or shared in or are sharers of the Holy Spirit, also doesn't make someone saved. Think of Judas as an example. Verse 6, to fall away, means to commit apostasy (like so many are doing now. So all of this shows that he's speaking of someone that's not truly saved, but claims to be. A wolf in sheep's clothing. Everything else you've shared about this if very good! Yes, it's a warning for true Christians to keep growing, and to persevere. It again shows the importance of remaining in the Word constantly and consistently. That's why Jesus says things like He does in John 15:7, and John 8:31, although I prefer the way the ESV translates it: ESV | Jn 8:31 So Jesus said to the Jews who had believed him, “If you abide in my word, you are truly my disciples.
I also wanted to touch on the idea of what kind of knowledge the people who aren't really saved might have about God and what the Bible teaches. I'm even speaking about people who've gone through seminary and aren't saved. They do not understand what the Bible teaches or have a true knowledge of God. They can't because those things are understood only through the Holy Spirit and they don't have the Holy Spirit and never have had Him. They can talk big and have great sounding sermons that even seem to make sense - especially to others who aren't saved; but they don't have a clue what the Truth really is. And that's just so very sad...
As I said, you did great!
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,397
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Hebrews
Oct 26, 2019 11:37:13 GMT -5
Post by fearnot on Oct 26, 2019 11:37:13 GMT -5
Oh you are right, I didn't mean what I was said was actually in the Bible....
I was (wrongly) saying that if a person:
" have tasted the goodness of the word of God ...
Combined with
"they are crucifying once again the Son of God.....
and holding him up to contempt."
since they walked away....it would be ( I was thinking)
that holding Jesus in contempt
and crucifying Him again
seemed like to me, they were saying the considered Him guilty.
Sorry, I get carried away at times
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,397
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Hebrews
Oct 26, 2019 11:41:30 GMT -5
Post by fearnot on Oct 26, 2019 11:41:30 GMT -5
How weird what the computer is not letting you do....
it does stuff like that to me more times than just once.
Sometimes, as I am about to post something, instead of posting it here on this board.....
it jumps to the old board
in the past, I would lose everything I wrote
Now
I am constantly copying every few paragraphs and then even posting and then editing ( so I can write more, and thus not lose everything like in the past......I have learned my lesson!!!
But why it jumps back to the old site.....I have no idea?????
Anyway, I've been sick the last couple of days, and still am...thus the shorter bible study versions.
Devon stayed home two days in a row being sick, and Hossanah is sick also, but went to work today.....she has to be absolutely unable to get up before she will miss a day of work.
Not like me....I am waaaay more whimpy.
But I really am sick....I kept Leonard awake ( so he was praying for me) as I coughed and coughed the night away LOL
Between coughing, letting the cat out and in and out and in, and going to the bathroom, I still managed to get 10-15 minutes naps last night.
I am hoping that I can go to church tomorrow even so.
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,397
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Hebrews
Oct 26, 2019 12:24:05 GMT -5
Post by fearnot on Oct 26, 2019 12:24:05 GMT -5
Hebrews 6: 13-20
The Certainty of God's Promise
Now the writer is explaining on what basis we can be imitators of those who in the past thru patience and faith would inherit the promises of God.....
It is based on God's certain promises....He cannot lie......and His promises have never failed in the past either.
God wants to bless His people. We may have trials, but like Abraham we can wait with patience.
men will often take an oath , a solemn promise, a legal verbal guarantee
( to tell the truth and nothing but the truth,
or to do or give a certain thing etc etc.).
But sometimes men lie, find excuses to wiggle out of their promises....
God however never does....if He makes a promise He will keep it ( tho it may take longer than we wish....His timing is not always what we want, because we are not always patient.
His promises and His oaths we can be sure of....they WILL happen,
that is strong encouragement for us to have patience.
and even more than Abraham had, we also have Jesus where we can take refuge.
This we can can fast to, cling to, trust in.
Our anchor ( God's promise, Jesus) hold us steady, we will not be moved.
Without such an anchor we most likely will be shipwrecked when a storm comes.
We trust in Jesus who went before us...
a high priest forever after the order of Melchizedek
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,397
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Hebrews
Oct 27, 2019 10:21:02 GMT -5
Post by fearnot on Oct 27, 2019 10:21:02 GMT -5
Hebrews 7: 1-10
The Priestly Order of Melchizedek
Now the writer gives us some more details about the 'mysterious' person Melchizedek,
and how he corresponds to Jesus.
For one thing he is both a King and a Priest ( that was always separate for the Jews).
Jesus's kingship came from the line of Judah.....but where did His earthy/human priesthood come from.....not Levi, but rather Melchizedek.
Melchizedek was a king of peace ( and Jesus is the ultimate King of Peace).
Only Melchizedek and Jesus were both King and Priest, in all of scripture.
Melchizedek blessed Abranham, and Jesus blesses all His followers.
Melchizedek received a tenth part of everything from Abraham.The Christian is willing to give everything to Jesus .
And there were other likenesses....
But then we come to verse 3:
"He is without father or mother or genealogy, having neither beginning of days nor end of life, but resembling the Son of God he continues a priest forever"
People and scholars throughout the ages have tried to discover who this mysterious person was.
To me, it seems like it might be a Christophany ( an appearance of Jesus as a human before his birth).
Then in verse 4 gives an additional point of information about the tithe...it was from the 'spoils' and to me it seems like it was the best of them.....like we want to give Jesus our best.
And it seems the point is being made that the Levites themselves thru Abraham gave Melchizedek the tithes, showing just how great this Melchizedek was.....which shows how much Greater Jesus was, is and shall ever be.
The fact that Melchizedek has no death seems to also point to Jesus ( I think).
Then to make the point even stronger that the Levites paid the tithes to Melchizedek was in verses 9& 10
"One might even say that Levi himself, who receives tithes, paid tithes through Abraham, 10 for he was still in the loins of his ancestor when Melchizedek met him".
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Very good! You're doing great! 
