fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383 
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Hebrews
Nov 24, 2019 10:22:47 GMT -5
Post by fearnot on Nov 24, 2019 10:22:47 GMT -5
[smear:#e61944]
Hi Anna!!!!!!![/smear:#3b19e6:1] :D
[smear:#e64519]Nice to 'see' 8-) or is it 'hear' you again ::).....here LOL[/smear:#32a730:2] :D
[smear:#217a7c]Thank you :)[/smear:#9e12f2:3]
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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Hebrews
Nov 24, 2019 11:30:56 GMT -5
Post by fearnot on Nov 24, 2019 11:30:56 GMT -5
Hebrews 12: 3-4
[smear:#e61943]Do Not Grow Weary[/smear:#a719e6:0]
So we are to keep looking to Jesus in this life. Even if the worse torture and death were to happen to us, we even then, would not come anywhere near close to suffering eternity in Hell for billions of people ( as our Lord and Savior Jesus did.
And as hard as it sounds, suffering can be divine....
we grow very little spiritually if we are at ease ( this is true physically also...no pain, no gain) .
Nevertheless, most of us, do not relish the idea of suffering, and begin to quickly whine, complain, etc.
How can we get help?
Look to Jesus.
Actually again in the physical world, it often happens, that if we have some ache or pain,
but then we get fixated on something else, the pain lessens.
There are lots of examples of this, I think Lamaze is based on that idea ( it did not work well for me, but then, having a baby is kind of unique, and I know it was a help for some of my friends).
Frankly, I wish instead, I had know then to look to Jesus!!!
Clearly Jesus is the ultimate example of faith under the most extreme conditions that ever existed or ever will.
Therefore, He ( Jesus) is what can help us ( me) not grow weary,
because the temptation to grow weary and/or faint is certainly there for me!!
We also know Jesus endured hostile, cruel, sinful, evil men
( He could have blinked and sent them all to Hell)...
but He did not...
He endured, because He knew the victory was assured ( and He had love that is so far beyond my comprehension).
He even prayed:
[smear:#872fa3]“Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do.”
[/smear:#1b7781:2]
The truth is I have not had to shed blood for my faith.....only endure an occasional mild scorn,
And in a strange way, tho ( so far) most American Christians have not suffered physically for their faith, they are more and more subjected to a kind of mental 'suffering' through the media, internet, movies, newspapers,
and the like....it can be an overload, that can be wearisome.
and then there is that somewhat ominous two words:
"not yet"
Which means...I ( we Christians) need to be prepared, because it might yet happen( suffering imprisonment or physically torture and/or death, for our faith)....
not that it will,
but if we cannot endure some scoffing....
we will be hard pressed to endure worse.
I do not mean to suggest that ridicule is not at all painful, it is.
I have heard some adults express they would rather have had parents give them an occasional spanking...than the constant belittling, scorn which was greatly damaging.
However, with both types of cruelty, we have Jesus as our example, and the Bible.
Today is super short as we are going to church and that is a 3 hour or longer affair ( we also take the kids to MacDonald's....
and today we have Doug coming,
the landlord wants to meet with us etc.
This coming week all the kids are off for the whole week!!!!
I never had the whole week off for Thanks-giving???
So we will be kid sitting for 5 days....
well no...
4 days because Hossahah and Brian will have Thanks-giving off
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Hebrews
Nov 25, 2019 12:53:03 GMT -5
Post by Cindy on Nov 25, 2019 12:53:03 GMT -5
That's true!!!
Thanks.....I had heard that about courage before......but had 'forgotten' it.
Oh and thanks about the Alzheimer's test
but I thought it was something that slowly got worse over time?
That maybe at first, you might forget names, or places, words etc.
and then over the years
it got worse, until you no longer recognized your closest loved ones?
otherwise......
why do Leonard and I keep forgetting stuff?
I sure am blessed to have you to ask all manner of things!!!!!!
Anyway, everyone gets some memory loss as they get older. That's natural and normal. (If someone's telling you they don't have any memory problems and they're over 60, they're either lying or haven't recognized their problem yet, which is unlikely.) To be perfectly clear, everyone that's healthy gets some memory loss as they get older. People who live with pain and/or illness have more memory loss then those who are healthy as a horse lol, because our brains are very busy dealing with our pain and thus have less resources to use to remember words etc.
Hebrew 11: 32-36
[smear:#e61944]Gideon[/smear:#18128b:1] defeat a huge army with only 300 men.....an impossibility
unless.....
God intervenes
Barak ( kind of a 'coward-ish fellow needing Deborah courage to defeat a different army)
nevertheless
Samson's last act was an answer of prayer with faith to God...tho knowing he would die.....he defeated the Philistines
Jephthah also defeated an enemy ( the Ammonites) with the power of God
In these case you could say the results of their faith was pretty spectacular.....but clearly this is not always so
and to be noted all these had some pretty spectacular 'flaws"!!
As did David and even Samuel....
if God did not use flawed people, then He could not use anyone.
The fact that these men and others did such things like:
"conquered kingdoms, enforced justice, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions, quenched the power of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, were made strong out of weakness, became mighty in war, put foreign armies to flight."
Was not so much because they were such great men, or even in praise of them but rather showing what God can do for those who have faith in Him.
I think Daniel was in view for Stopping the mouths of Lions ( and it was God who did that), and likewise for Shadrach, Meshach and Abed-nego..God quenched the power of fire
and so on.... by faith, we are more than conquerors thru God..
They as are we, naturally weak, but God can make us strong and do impossible things that we otherwise could never do.
On the other hand we must know that tho faith can produce all manner of wondrous feats etc.
We must also know that it can also be that we might or will endure much suffering.... including torture and death.
But wait....
Some could accept release from such horrible torture.....
all they had or have to do is.....deny their faith....
But they did not.....
why???
They would not exchange anything this world had to offer because they were looking towards eternity....
And so much for the health and wealth false gospel!!!
The choice was: their bodies or their souls....which should suffer?
their bodies for a short time, or their souls forever?
And tho mocking surely is a lot better than torture, it still 'hurts' it hurts our soul personally and even for pity for the ones doing the mocking.
“Women received back their dead, raised to life again. Others were tortured and refused to be released, so that they might gain a better resurrection.” (Hebrews 11:35) This isn't talking about them denying their faith or exchanging their souls so they could stop the torture etc. Instead, it's saying that after they'd been tortured and their captors were going to let them go, they refused to leave because they knew their sufferings would lead to a richer and better resurrection experience.
This is also speaking about people who had been raised from the dead. They rose to more life here on earth, which is certainly no picnic. The only people who were glad about it, were the loved ones that had been missing them. They however knew that they now had to die again before they would finally be resurrected in their new bodies in heaven with God.
Hebrews 11: 37-40
And now we come to some of the more horrifying tortures and manners of death to some martyrs ( stoned and/or sawed in two)
and yet ,
I think its been documented that many many martyrs seemed to have 'unexplainable' peace, lack of fear, and seemingly lack of much pain.....
Think: Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego , for example.
It was, is, and will be, God, who gives them the grace, comfort, and ability to endure such torture and die....looking forward to seeing Him.
Because, I think without God and His Word, it would be impossible to trust Him while being sawed in half!
Others were also extremely poor ( with only skins of animals to wear), [smear:#7619e6]"destitute, afflicted, mistreated"[/smear:#4ec23d:1]...
The sort of people that many of the wealthy or middle class etc. don't deem as worthy....
However, God says:
they were those [smear:#407e1f]"of whom the world was not worthy".[/smear:#771698:0]
These same saints often wandered about and lived in caves.
Again, so much for the 'prosperity' false gospel.
Which is not to say, God might not give some believers prosperity.....but to think He will do so for all, and we can expect and demand it as our right.....just is not true.....just look at Bible truth and history.
Even this very day, Christians all over the whole are being martyr for their faith.
Furthermore, these martyrs and sufferers in the Bible, did not receive the promises in their life time. They sacrificed earthly comforts for future eternal ones. They counted God as more important they even their very lives ( never mind comforts).
And so they had the approval of God ( what could be better?)
but why did they not receive what was promised?
[smear:#3fba5e]" since God had provided something better for us, that apart from us they should not be made perfect.[/smear:#821c98:2]
So neither those who had great triumphs nor those who suffered greatly for the Lord.....received the promises at that time)....For one thing Jesus had not died yet...
but also, even today, this is not our home, tho once saved our lives are eternal and with God, we wait to be with Jesus face to face.
Amen, well said! The faith of OT saints looked forward to the promised salvation, whereas the faith of us after Christ look back at the fulfillment of the promise.
So from this chapter we learn that God works through faith and faith alone. Exercising faith is the only way to please Him and receive His blessing. We learn that faith is a gift from God through the Word and the Spirit. We don't get it ourselves but we can increase it by abiding in His Word and prayer. Finally, this chapter shows us that faith is always tested.
Hebrews 12: 1-2
[smear:#e6192b]Jesus, Founder and Perfecter of Our Faith
[/smear:#ae19e6:3]
One might think that there is a group of people watching us from Heaven run our earthly race on earth,
but since the writer has been speaking of all the many heroes of faith gone before us, it is more likely he is taking about them ( many who were victorious in all sorts of battles including being martyrs....
The Bible and its word are what encourages us in our race.
However to run our race, we don't want to be entangled by sin, which at the very least will weigh us down, and bring us sorrow so we do not win with joy.
It is only with Jesus ( the Author and finisher ) we can do this ( yes we will still sin, but we ought to be shedding them over time with God's help).
Not only that but this race is generally not to be expected to be a short sprint, but and long endurance race.
We are not really to lie down in a bed of rose petals, when the Lion is out and about looking for those he may devour, this is a spiritual war and battles rage.... we need to be running ( in many ways, studying scripture, praying, giving etc. etc.)
We are not to beg for our little small pet sins:
saying:
it's not THAT bad to watch this or that, or do this or that, etc.
no...
rather we should ask:
is it a sin, does it grieve my God, is it slowing me down in my race?
I don't know ,
but perhaps there is
or
was at one time ,
no rule saying a runner in a race could not carry a log, or perhaps a bag of food....
but who would do so and expect to win??
Likewise, why would we plead watching for hours on end some dubious slightly off color movies, shows, etc. or indulge our self in 'tiny, wee, little' sins?
Do they help me run the race for my Lord Jesus?
We want to win...not sin.
Another thing is we can't keep looking back and carrying the burden of past sins, they will slow us down and Jesus paid for them, so once confessed, leave them!
( I know that can be hard, when the enemy constantly reminds you (me) of them, but we have to understand what he is doing, and leave them).
What is the race that is set before us....well faith, obedience, self sacrifice often times, renewing our minds with God's Word the Bible, becoming more and more like Jesus etc.
Again this race is not to work our way to Heaven,
being saved, we are going to Heaven,
but we want to then live a life pleasing to God, and perhaps taking others with us.
And most likely, we will not find praise, by the world, but that is not our goal.
Nor can we do this, unless, we keep our eyes on Jesus....
in our own strength we will fail!
He is our supreme encouragement!
What a excellent perfect example.
We don't want to be looking at the menacing hurdles of this life ( satan, demons, worldly pleasures, sin, self
opposition, afflictions, mockings, etc.) but rather keep our eyes on Jesus.
Like blinders on a horse, we keep our eyes off of those things that will entice or scare, etc.
Keeping our eyes on Jesus: its the only 'safe' way to live....even if tortured or martyred.
we want to keep our eyes on the real prize.....Jesus.
I keep remembering the refrain to a hymn:
[smear:#1c7d73]Turn your eyes upon Jesus,
Look full in His wonderful face,
And the things of earth will grow strangely dim,
In the light of His glory and grace.[/smear:#782072:2]
We 'look'... by continue to study to Bible for one thing.
So Jesus endure the worst that could or will ever be.....and how did He do that?
[smear:#e65d19]"for the joy that was set before him endured the cross"
[/smear:#459d28:1]
He did not fear the world's contempt and trying to shame Him....
He could have stopped it at any moment...
but instead He endured it.....the greatest love, that will ever be shown ,for the completely undeserving.
And then....
He [smear:#548e28]"is seated at the right hand of the throne of God".
[/smear:#7c2a96:3]
I love how you've explained everything. You've done a great job! 
 Good to see you Marlene! You've been missed! [smear:#e61944]
Hi Anna!!!!!!![/smear:#3b19e6:1] :D
[smear:#e64519]Nice to 'see' 8-) or is it 'hear' you again ::).....here LOL[/smear:#32a730:2] :D
[smear:#217a7c]Thank you :)[/smear:#9e12f2:3]
Hebrews 12: 3-4
[smear:#e61943]Do Not Grow Weary[/smear:#a719e6:0]
So we are to keep looking to Jesus in this life. Even if the worse torture and death were to happen to us, we even then, would not come anywhere near close to suffering eternity in Hell for billions of people ( as our Lord and Savior Jesus did.
And as hard as it sounds, suffering can be divine....
we grow very little spiritually if we are at ease ( this is true physically also...no pain, no gain) .
Nevertheless, most of us, do not relish the idea of suffering, and begin to quickly whine, complain, etc.
How can we get help?
Look to Jesus.
Actually again in the physical world, it often happens, that if we have some ache or pain,
but then we get fixated on something else, the pain lessens.
There are lots of examples of this, I think Lamaze is based on that idea ( it did not work well for me, but then, having a baby is kind of unique, and I know it was a help for some of my friends).
Frankly, I wish instead, I had know then to look to Jesus!!!
Clearly Jesus is the ultimate example of faith under the most extreme conditions that ever existed or ever will.
Therefore, He ( Jesus) is what can help us ( me) not grow weary,
because the temptation to grow weary and/or faint is certainly there for me!!
We also know Jesus endured hostile, cruel, sinful, evil men
( He could have blinked and sent them all to Hell)...
but He did not...
He endured, because He knew the victory was assured ( and He had love that is so far beyond my comprehension).
He even prayed:
[smear:#872fa3]“Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do.”
[/smear:#1b7781:2]
The truth is I have not had to shed blood for my faith.....only endure an occasional mild scorn,
And in a strange way, tho ( so far) most American Christians have not suffered physically for their faith, they are more and more subjected to a kind of mental 'suffering' through the media, internet, movies, newspapers,
and the like....it can be an overload, that can be wearisome.
and then there is that somewhat ominous two words:
"not yet"
Which means...I ( we Christians) need to be prepared, because it might yet happen( suffering imprisonment or physically torture and/or death, for our faith)....
not that it will,
but if we cannot endure some scoffing....
we will be hard pressed to endure worse.
I do not mean to suggest that ridicule is not at all painful, it is.
I have heard some adults express they would rather have had parents give them an occasional spanking...than the constant belittling, scorn which was greatly damaging.
However, with both types of cruelty, we have Jesus as our example, and the Bible.
Today is super short as we are going to church and that is a 3 hour or longer affair ( we also take the kids to MacDonald's....
and today we have Doug coming,
the landlord wants to meet with us etc.
This coming week all the kids are off for the whole week!!!!
I never had the whole week off for Thanks-giving???
So we will be kid sitting for 5 days....
well no...
4 days because Hossahah and Brian will have Thanks-giving off
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
|
Hebrews
Nov 25, 2019 13:10:42 GMT -5
Post by fearnot on Nov 25, 2019 13:10:42 GMT -5
Hebrews 12: 5-8
We do tend to 'forget', which is why we need to be in the word daily.
And perhaps the exhortation about being disciplined is not exactly a favorite thing to remember,
and yet
it is not a loving parent that never takes any responsibility to teach and discipline their children.
And as we have already touched on, a bed of roses does not teach us much ( except perhaps, to be selfish, self-centered, lazy etc.)
Suffering does effect everyone, and it is not easy to endure,
but when we understand, God will use it for our good, it takes some of the sting out of it.
And for most of us in America our trials are not to be compared with the martyrs of old or even Christians today over the world....
again tho, I want to make it clear...
it not that our trials are nothing at all...
we too have sorrows ( loved one die, are severely injured, suffering from painful cancers etc. etc etc.) , pain mentally and physically and they do hurt, often a lot.....
but still...we are not being sawed in half for example.
Still, we are sons and daughters of God, and we do have painful discipline at times.
Therefore, let us not be forgetful, when trials comes our way. Let's remember God will use it to grow us.
Strange as it might seem it is because He loves us....
is it really a loving parent who gives their child endless toys and lets them run wild?
He will make us strong and not weak, build character, compassion, helping us become mature in our faith and not always babies, etc.
Frankly, let's look at our world today....many a parent have been called up as child abuse for any small amount of discipline......and what has that wrought ( not talking about very real child abuse)?
Children in college who are so weak, they cannot bear to even hear someone else with a different opinion.....
they need a safe space to go blow bubbles, and watch puppies, and play with crayons....
not that there is anything innately wrong with those things ( I love kittens and puppies also),
but to not be able to tolerate anything different without having a major breakdown?
I too, am afflicted with such weakness, for example, I do not like to hear people use my Lord and Savior's name in vain in endless swearing.....still, I endure it ( with prayers...not bubbles).
Suffering does tend to remove a lot of silly foolishness from our lives....a lot of fluff.
I have often been able to deal with suffering from something I have done that I know I deserved ( a sin),
but there have been many a time, when I felt hurt or incensed, because I did NOT do anything to deserve it....
What I forgot....
was that Jesus did NOT deserve any of the punishment He took!! So who am I to grumble?
Another thing tho, is it proves we are His children and not illegitimate children.
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Hebrews
Nov 26, 2019 10:49:21 GMT -5
Post by Cindy on Nov 26, 2019 10:49:21 GMT -5
Hebrews 12: 5-8
We do tend to 'forget', which is why we need to be in the word daily.
And perhaps the exhortation about being disciplined is not exactly a favorite thing to remember,
and yet
it is not a loving parent that never takes any responsibility to teach and discipline their children.
And as we have already touched on, a bed of roses does not teach us much ( except perhaps, to be selfish, self-centered, lazy etc.)
Suffering does effect everyone, and it is not easy to endure,
but when we understand, God will use it for our good, it takes some of the sting out of it.
And for most of us in America our trials are not to be compared with the martyrs of old or even Christians today over the world....
again tho, I want to make it clear...
it not that our trials are nothing at all...
we too have sorrows ( loved one die, are severely injured, suffering from painful cancers etc. etc etc.) , pain mentally and physically and they do hurt, often a lot.....
but still...we are not being sawed in half for example.
Still, we are sons and daughters of God, and we do have painful discipline at times.
Therefore, let us not be forgetful, when trials comes our way. Let's remember God will use it to grow us.
Strange as it might seem it is because He loves us....
is it really a loving parent who gives their child endless toys and lets them run wild?
He will make us strong and not weak, build character, compassion, helping us become mature in our faith and not always babies, etc.
Frankly, let's look at our world today....many a parent have been called up as child abuse for any small amount of discipline......and what has that wrought ( not talking about very real child abuse)?
Children in college who are so weak, they cannot bear to even hear someone else with a different opinion.....
they need a safe space to go blow bubbles, and watch puppies, and play with crayons....
not that there is anything innately wrong with those things ( I love kittens and puppies also),
but to not be able to tolerate anything different without having a major breakdown?
I too, am afflicted with such weakness, for example, I do not like to hear people use my Lord and Savior's name in vain in endless swearing.....still, I endure it ( with prayers...not bubbles).
Suffering does tend to remove a lot of silly foolishness from our lives....a lot of fluff.
I have often been able to deal with suffering from something I have done that I know I deserved ( a sin),
but there have been many a time, when I felt hurt or incensed, because I did NOT do anything to deserve it....
What I forgot....
was that Jesus did NOT deserve any of the punishment He took!! So who am I to grumble?
Another thing tho, is it proves we are His children and not illegitimate children.
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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Hebrews
Nov 26, 2019 13:15:28 GMT -5
Post by fearnot on Nov 26, 2019 13:15:28 GMT -5
Hebrews 12:9-12
The writer has been talking about discipline and God as our Father
and now he points out that most of us have (fallible) earthly fathers, who we love and respect,
and want their love and respect.
Those fathers ( in general) discipline their children ( as well as teaching them, giving them direction, love etc.).
And we should respect our human flawed earthly fathers, even more so we should be 'subject' to our heavenly Father God.
But instead, we tend to complain more about God, than our human fathers.
People have this insane idea that 'being free'... to always be the captain of self ,is the ultimate goal....
yet, invariably, such a person almost always becomes greatly addicted and a slave to all manner of sins
( drink, drugs, sex etc.),
and basically never grows up to be useful to anyone,
( not even themselves...as they are headed often to an unpleasant death...there are different kinds of deaths).
The consequences of being a 'free' spirit, a rebel without a cause, etc. is deadly.
For example...a small child may wish to run into traffic, but then their dad comes along and says: no!
The child does it again .....and the father gives him or her a smack on the behind.
The child does not like that!!
But another child runs in the street and the father say...oh that's fine child.... 'be free'!!!
And the next day the child runs in the street, and is hit by a car, and they are killed.
Which child was really loved?
Most people do not ( at least at first, love being disciplined by Father God....but when you see it as either protection, or growing us etc.....it changes our perspective).
Not only, is God's discipline, for our benefit
( I.e. drugs, drunkenness, endless one night stands, etc etc. will kill us),
it will begin to make us holy!!!
We find ourselves drawing more and close to God in afflictions ,as we pray more and more,
and in doing so we become more and more like Jesus.
Pride is lessened and we become more humble.
We can learn to have compassion, pity, and love for others who are suffering.
Even losing a loved one, a husband or a wife, or a beloved child, is God drawing us to Heaven where we will be reunited, without any more tears.
Sometimes when hurtful things happen to us, we think there is no sense to it, God is allowing misery with no plan, or reason......
yet in fact, He is drawing us closer and closer to His loving arms.
Unlike human parents, who can make mistakes in their discipline based on raging emotions, sins etc.
God always does so, with only our best interests in mind.
We can keep in mind that while suffering, we are sharing (even if to a small extent) in His holiness.
It also weans us from this world.
A child might be holding onto a dirty, torn, broken, ragged, doll or toy not wanting to let it go.....not knowing their Father wishes to give them a much much better gift....but in order to get the beautiful new, they have to let go of the dirty rag.
So we have to let go of being 'free to be a rebel and sin, and satisfying only self'....
wanting our Heavenly Father and goodness much more!!!
Being a rebel is not often truly 'peaceful', there is often a LOT of drama, but not peace.
With God there is peace that passes understanding.
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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Hebrews
Nov 27, 2019 12:57:40 GMT -5
Post by fearnot on Nov 27, 2019 12:57:40 GMT -5
Hebrews 12: 13-15
The writer is quoting from Proverbs 4: 25-27
[smear:#3ea968]Let your eyes look directly forward,
and your gaze be straight before you.
Ponder[c] the path of your feet;
then all your ways will be sure.
Do not swerve to the right or to the left;
turn your foot away from evil.[/smear:#e61982:0]
The idea of keeping your paths straight, is not to get distracted ( by worldly things , getting discouraged and weary, etc.), to keep you eyes straight ahead on your goal, do not wander off into sin's evil.
Of course to do this we need God's strength ( and we will fail now and then, but we make it our goal)
We want to remove the 'stones, stumbling blocks, logs, and garbage' ( sins) from the path or our lives...and this will have an effect on some coming after us ( we don't want to mislead the lame coming after us).
We are all 'lame' with sins, and it slows us down.
In addition, we want to strive for peace with everyone.
It seems we have some trouble doing that even with other believers..
but pursuing peace is not an optional choice, however this does not mean we are to compromise our beliefs.
Also this does not mean that we are saved by works, because an unsaved person cannot not successfully do any of this, and they do not really really 'love' in a righteous, Godly way, which is the only real way to have peace.
Holiness comes only from God....and thus is a proof of being born again, saved.
For one thing we do agree with what God has said in His Word the Bible and ask for it to be applied to our lives.
We also want sin out of our lives.....we used to chase after it ( now it tries to chase us, but we do NOT want anything to do with it....tho we do fail, we hate it).
We want to now be like Jesus!!!
We now longer want to be self centered, tho we still fail in that from time to time, but it is no longer our goal.
We want to pursue kindness, compassion, pity and love, forgiveness, and mercy.....which is what we would want for ourselves.
and...
We want to help each other obtain the grace of God
However we have to be careful of the root of bitterness, which can so easily beset us!!
And bitterness can be like a very very long tap root....it often does not want to be pulled up!!!
it's strange but some of us like too wallow in it....poor me they did me wrong and I am angry at them!!!
This attitude can stop all growth, so I expect the devil likes it a lot when a Christian gets caught up in it.....
Again tho, think of the one who could have been really really bitter....Jesus....but what did He say: Father forgive them.
Bitterness is an unwillingness to forgive.
Do we like to be around bitter, complaining people? Then why do we wish to become one?
This is ultimate self!! Be careful not to nurse a grudge, going over and over in your mind what 'they' said or what they did to ME!!
It's poison to the soul!
And it can spread....it roots can go to our family, friends, neighbors, church etc. and defile many.
But we can pray that God will help us root out, the root of bitterness, because it can come into any 'garden'
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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Hebrews
Nov 28, 2019 13:01:33 GMT -5
Post by fearnot on Nov 28, 2019 13:01:33 GMT -5
Hebrews 12: 16-17
One might wonder why is Esau picked out as example concerning the root of bitterness?
[smear:#cc0829]"that no one is sexually immoral or unholy like Esau, who sold his birthright for a single meal".[/smear:#2e8912:0]
It mentions he was sexually immoral and sold his birthright for a meal.
It shows Esau put himself, and what he considered or deemed he deserved, needed, what was his 'rights' ...he put way above God ( if he cared truly at all)....really he had no need for God.
His focus was on pleasures for himself...and basically thought the things of God were worthless....a cup of soup was worth more.
But when he realized he would lose his double portion of his father's inheritance (
again all about self....
I don't think being the spiritual head of the house meant anything to him....
then he was grieved.
You have to wonder that he could not even miss ONE meal???
However, it was not this one act, but a lifetime of disregard concerning the things of God.
This is a warning to us, that we do not let the pleasures of the world, power, the sensuous and sensual, and the like, lure us.
All believers were at one time like Esau....we may have wanted the 'blessings' ,
but not God Himself,
and we did not have faith....without faith it is impossible to please God.
[smear:#a719e6]"...without faith it is impossible to please him, for whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him" Hebrews 11:6
[/smear:#339b32:1]
And then Esau did not repent of his sin, he only regretted the consequences of it.
Esau said he would die if he didn't get a cup of soup, but instead, he did die, without eternal life with God. That is so sad. He was rejected because he rejected God.
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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Hebrews
Nov 29, 2019 12:43:32 GMT -5
Post by fearnot on Nov 29, 2019 12:43:32 GMT -5
Hebrews 12:18-21
[smear:#982510]A Kingdom That Cannot Be Shaken[/smear:#2c3a8d:3]
The writer now contrasts the scary terrifying old, with the joy and glory of the new.
In one sense the old Jewish law, with the mercy and grace of Christ and Christianity.
The Jews he was writing two seemed to not exactly know what they possessed in Jesus,
and were considering disregarding it for something a LOT less ( old legalistic Jewish law)...
Esau had done the same....given up something so very worthwhile ( his birthright) for something so much less, a bowl of soup).
Esau did it because he was hungry, and these Jews were coming under persecution as Christians ( but presumably would be fine....at least for awhile, if they went back to Judaism).
But the old way was filled with terror and judgement:
[smear:#8e145c]"a blazing fire and darkness and gloom and a tempest
and the sound of a trumpet and a voice whose words made the hearers beg that no further messages be spoken to them....
“If even a beast touches the mountain, it shall be stoned.”
Indeed, so terrifying was the sight that Moses said, “I tremble with fear.”[/smear:#177e11:2]
However
The new was Joy, peace, a celebration with angels, believers and God.....
who would choose the old darkness, and gloom?
I know I went over some of the things a person might become bitter about
but I also wonder, if a root of bitterness might have been springing up,
because of worldly persecution they were experiencing.
and that bitterness, said go back?
Apart from the blood of Jesus they could see the majesty, power of God,
but more importantly also only judgment of their sins and inapproachable and terrifying God.
I've heard people flippantly refer to God as the big guy in the sky usually adding a haha
but no God is Holy, not a joke, and He is more powerful then our small brains can imagine etc.
But that is not what the Christian has!! We have peace that passeth understanding.
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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Hebrews
Nov 30, 2019 12:41:32 GMT -5
Post by fearnot on Nov 30, 2019 12:41:32 GMT -5
Hebrews 12:22-24
Now we are shown more of the contrast between the two mountains ( covenants)
One, mt Sinai .... (the Mosaic covenant )= fear and not salvation
and is a consuming fire,
whereas, the one we are heading to,
Mt Zion,
is grace, angels ( we as believers do not worship angels but we worship God with the angels),
saved believers, etc.
Sometimes nonbelievers scoff and insinuate that when believers die, they will just be spirits,
sitting for all eternity,
on a cloud with a harp
( actually, I never quite understood the insult....I think even that would be cool LOL)...
That the verse says 'spirits', could be mistaken by those scoffers, to prove part of their point.....
But actually, these believers are waiting for their resurrection bodies.
Also, the Bible makes it clear Heaven and eternity, will be soooooo much more ( than cloud sitting).....this verse is just a touch of what it will be like.
Let's not forget, that besides believers and angels, Jesus will be there.
Frankly, I think I could spend eternity, just being loved by Him ...
and yet, I know there is sooooo much more, than I can even imagine
( a new Heaven and universe also).
Jesus is no longer on the cross, He is in Heaven.
Abel's animal sacrifice was accepted because he gave it in faith, but the blood of Jesus actually saves.
Tho some commentators think that it refers to Abel's actual blood ( being killed by Cain) which cried out to God ( for vengeance) ....but either way, there was no atoning power....
whereas, Jesus blood is for salvation....forgiveness and love beyond understanding).
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Hebrews
Dec 1, 2019 11:39:27 GMT -5
Post by Cindy on Dec 1, 2019 11:39:27 GMT -5
OK, before I read your replies, I want to let you know what's going on and what you can expect in the future with me. I don't know if you saw my post in the chat thread last week when I explained that the tests came back showing that I have Emphysema now. That's what made me so sick in August and why I still don't feel completely better...because I'm not. The doctor has prescribed an inhaler that will help me feel better, but it costs $400 a month, so we can't afford it. Thankfully the hospital can get it for me for free, but it takes time to get it started, and generally longer this close to the end of the year. So eventually I'll have the inhaler and will hopefully be able to breathe better. Actually I think it's kind of funny (in an ironic kind of way) that you have a fear of not being able to breathe, but I'm the one that will most likely die because I can't breathe. Honestly, it doesn't scare me though. Being sick is no fun and I don't look forward to any more flares like what happened in August, but when they happen, I'll obviously deal with them, just like I did the last one, until it's over or I die or the rapture happens. (I'm voting for the rapture lol) One thing that's really weird though is that a major symptom of Emphysema is coughing and I haven't coughed even one tiny time since before August...can't even remember when the last time was!
But what you can expect....I don't think anything will really change too much, but some days I just don't feel well enough to do anything. That's what happened on Saturday. I meant to come here yesterday, but woke up feeling awful and wasn't up to doing anything at all. So the only real change will be that if I don't show up, you can know that I'm either not feeling well at all that day, or don't have any internet and it's most likely that I don't feel well.
Hebrews 12:9-12
The writer has been talking about discipline and God as our Father
and now he points out that most of us have (fallible) earthly fathers, who we love and respect,
and want their love and respect.
Those fathers ( in general) discipline their children ( as well as teaching them, giving them direction, love etc.).
And we should respect our human flawed earthly fathers, even more so we should be 'subject' to our heavenly Father God.
But instead, we tend to complain more about God, than our human fathers.
People have this insane idea that 'being free'... to always be the captain of self ,is the ultimate goal....
yet, invariably, such a person almost always becomes greatly addicted and a slave to all manner of sins
( drink, drugs, sex etc.),
and basically never grows up to be useful to anyone,
( not even themselves...as they are headed often to an unpleasant death...there are different kinds of deaths).
The consequences of being a 'free' spirit, a rebel without a cause, etc. is deadly.
For example...a small child may wish to run into traffic, but then their dad comes along and says: no!
The child does it again .....and the father gives him or her a smack on the behind.
The child does not like that!!
But another child runs in the street and the father say...oh that's fine child.... 'be free'!!!
And the next day the child runs in the street, and is hit by a car, and they are killed.
Which child was really loved?
Most people do not ( at least at first, love being disciplined by Father God....but when you see it as either protection, or growing us etc.....it changes our perspective).
Not only, is God's discipline, for our benefit
( I.e. drugs, drunkenness, endless one night stands, etc etc. will kill us),
it will begin to make us holy!!!
We find ourselves drawing more and close to God in afflictions ,as we pray more and more,
and in doing so we become more and more like Jesus.
Pride is lessened and we become more humble.
We can learn to have compassion, pity, and love for others who are suffering.
Even losing a loved one, a husband or a wife, or a beloved child, is God drawing us to Heaven where we will be reunited, without any more tears.
Sometimes when hurtful things happen to us, we think there is no sense to it, God is allowing misery with no plan, or reason......
yet in fact, He is drawing us closer and closer to His loving arms.
Unlike human parents, who can make mistakes in their discipline based on raging emotions, sins etc.
God always does so, with only our best interests in mind.
We can keep in mind that while suffering, we are sharing (even if to a small extent) in His holiness.
It also weans us from this world.
A child might be holding onto a dirty, torn, broken, ragged, doll or toy not wanting to let it go.....not knowing their Father wishes to give them a much much better gift....but in order to get the beautiful new, they have to let go of the dirty rag.
So we have to let go of being 'free to be a rebel and sin, and satisfying only self'....
wanting our Heavenly Father and goodness much more!!!
Being a rebel is not often truly 'peaceful', there is often a LOT of drama, but not peace.
With God there is peace that passes understanding.
Hebrews 12: 13-15
The writer is quoting from Proverbs 4: 25-27
[smear:#3ea968]Let your eyes look directly forward,
and your gaze be straight before you.
Ponder[c] the path of your feet;
then all your ways will be sure.
Do not swerve to the right or to the left;
turn your foot away from evil.[/smear:#e61982:0]
The idea of keeping your paths straight, is not to get distracted ( by worldly things , getting discouraged and weary, etc.), to keep you eyes straight ahead on your goal, do not wander off into sin's evil.
Of course to do this we need God's strength ( and we will fail now and then, but we make it our goal)
We want to remove the 'stones, stumbling blocks, logs, and garbage' ( sins) from the path or our lives...and this will have an effect on some coming after us ( we don't want to mislead the lame coming after us).
We are all 'lame' with sins, and it slows us down.
In addition, we want to strive for peace with everyone.
It seems we have some trouble doing that even with other believers..
but pursuing peace is not an optional choice, however this does not mean we are to compromise our beliefs.
Also this does not mean that we are saved by works, because an unsaved person cannot not successfully do any of this, and they do not really really 'love' in a righteous, Godly way, which is the only real way to have peace.
Holiness comes only from God....and thus is a proof of being born again, saved.
For one thing we do agree with what God has said in His Word the Bible and ask for it to be applied to our lives.
We also want sin out of our lives.....we used to chase after it ( now it tries to chase us, but we do NOT want anything to do with it....tho we do fail, we hate it).
We want to now be like Jesus!!!
We now longer want to be self centered, tho we still fail in that from time to time, but it is no longer our goal.
We want to pursue kindness, compassion, pity and love, forgiveness, and mercy.....which is what we would want for ourselves.
and...
We want to help each other obtain the grace of God
However we have to be careful of the root of bitterness, which can so easily beset us!!
And bitterness can be like a very very long tap root....it often does not want to be pulled up!!!
it's strange but some of us like too wallow in it....poor me they did me wrong and I am angry at them!!!
This attitude can stop all growth, so I expect the devil likes it a lot when a Christian gets caught up in it.....
Again tho, think of the one who could have been really really bitter....Jesus....but what did He say: Father forgive them.
Bitterness is an unwillingness to forgive.
Do we like to be around bitter, complaining people? Then why do we wish to become one?
This is ultimate self!! Be careful not to nurse a grudge, going over and over in your mind what 'they' said or what they did to ME!!
It's poison to the soul!
And it can spread....it roots can go to our family, friends, neighbors, church etc. and defile many.
But we can pray that God will help us root out, the root of bitterness, because it can come into any 'garden'
Hebrews 12: 16-17
One might wonder why is Esau picked out as example concerning the root of bitterness?
[smear:#cc0829]"that no one is sexually immoral or unholy like Esau, who sold his birthright for a single meal".[/smear:#2e8912:0]
It mentions he was sexually immoral and sold his birthright for a meal.
It shows Esau put himself, and what he considered or deemed he deserved, needed, what was his 'rights' ...he put way above God ( if he cared truly at all)....really he had no need for God.
His focus was on pleasures for himself...and basically thought the things of God were worthless....a cup of soup was worth more.
But when he realized he would lose his double portion of his father's inheritance (
again all about self....
I don't think being the spiritual head of the house meant anything to him....
then he was grieved.
You have to wonder that he could not even miss ONE meal???
However, it was not this one act, but a lifetime of disregard concerning the things of God.
This is a warning to us, that we do not let the pleasures of the world, power, the sensuous and sensual, and the like, lure us.
All believers were at one time like Esau....we may have wanted the 'blessings' ,
but not God Himself,
and we did not have faith....without faith it is impossible to please God.
[smear:#a719e6]"...without faith it is impossible to please him, for whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him" Hebrews 11:6
[/smear:#339b32:1]
And then Esau did not repent of his sin, he only regretted the consequences of it.
Esau said he would die if he didn't get a cup of soup, but instead, he did die, without eternal life with God. That is so sad. He was rejected because he rejected God.
“See that no one is sexually immoral, or is godless like Esau, who for a single meal sold his inheritance rights as the oldest son.” (Hebrews 12:16)
About Esau, the way the verse is written, doesn't imply that he was sexually immoral, but only godless, which is what most commentaries say. However there are a couple that say that perhaps the author is suggesting that Esau was also sexually immoral since both go together so often, but that there is no biblical evidence that shows him being sexually immoral. He did marry foreign wives, which his parents didn't approve of, but that in and of itself isn't sexually immoral. He was however very bitter about his brother taking his inheritance. So much so that he vowed that he would kill him which is why Jacob's mother sent him off right away. It took many, many years before he got over his bitterness toward his brother, and then only did because he was very prosperous in his own right.
I'm not sure what you're talking about when you say you have to wonder that he couldn't miss even one meal.... do you mean the meal that he sold his birthright for? If so, the way Genesis 25:28–29 is written seems to imply that he had been out hunting for a long time and so was very hungry when he finally got home. I know when Bruce has been out hunting all day, he comes home starving too. Other days he could skip a meal, but not those days! He eats a big meal on those days.
Hebrews 12:18-21
[smear:#982510]A Kingdom That Cannot Be Shaken[/smear:#2c3a8d:3]
The writer now contrasts the scary terrifying old, with the joy and glory of the new.
In one sense the old Jewish law, with the mercy and grace of Christ and Christianity.
The Jews he was writing two seemed to not exactly know what they possessed in Jesus,
and were considering disregarding it for something a LOT less ( old legalistic Jewish law)...
Esau had done the same....given up something so very worthwhile ( his birthright) for something so much less, a bowl of soup).
Esau did it because he was hungry, and these Jews were coming under persecution as Christians ( but presumably would be fine....at least for awhile, if they went back to Judaism).
But the old way was filled with terror and judgement:
[smear:#8e145c]"a blazing fire and darkness and gloom and a tempest
and the sound of a trumpet and a voice whose words made the hearers beg that no further messages be spoken to them....
“If even a beast touches the mountain, it shall be stoned.”
Indeed, so terrifying was the sight that Moses said, “I tremble with fear.”[/smear:#177e11:2]
However
The new was Joy, peace, a celebration with angels, believers and God.....
who would choose the old darkness, and gloom?
I know I went over some of the things a person might become bitter about
but I also wonder, if a root of bitterness might have been springing up,
because of worldly persecution they were experiencing.
and that bitterness, said go back?
Apart from the blood of Jesus they could see the majesty, power of God,
but more importantly also only judgment of their sins and inapproachable and terrifying God.
I've heard people flippantly refer to God as the big guy in the sky usually adding a haha
but no God is Holy, not a joke, and He is more powerful then our small brains can imagine etc.
But that is not what the Christian has!! We have peace that passeth understanding.
Hebrews 12:22-24
Now we are shown more of the contrast between the two mountains ( covenants)
One, mt Sinai .... (the Mosaic covenant )= fear and not salvation
and is a consuming fire,
whereas, the one we are heading to,
Mt Zion,
is grace, angels ( we as believers do not worship angels but we worship God with the angels),
saved believers, etc.
Sometimes nonbelievers scoff and insinuate that when believers die, they will just be spirits,
sitting for all eternity,
on a cloud with a harp
( actually, I never quite understood the insult....I think even that would be cool LOL)...
That the verse says 'spirits', could be mistaken by those scoffers, to prove part of their point.....
But actually, these believers are waiting for their resurrection bodies.
Also, the Bible makes it clear Heaven and eternity, will be soooooo much more ( than cloud sitting).....this verse is just a touch of what it will be like.
Let's not forget, that besides believers and angels, Jesus will be there.
Frankly, I think I could spend eternity, just being loved by Him ...
and yet, I know there is sooooo much more, than I can even imagine
( a new Heaven and universe also).
Jesus is no longer on the cross, He is in Heaven.
Abel's animal sacrifice was accepted because he gave it in faith, but the blood of Jesus actually saves.
Tho some commentators think that it refers to Abel's actual blood ( being killed by Cain) which cried out to God ( for vengeance) ....but either way, there was no atoning power....
whereas, Jesus blood is for salvation....forgiveness and love beyond understanding).
Thinking about Heaven...about the rapture, the millennial kingdom, and then eternity, is my favorite pastime. The other day though, I heard a song that put goosebumps all over me! It was a take off of the time between the Millennial Kingdom and Eternity, when we will hear God say, "Behold, I'm making everything new! I will wipe away every tear. There will be no more death, no mourning, no crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away. ” And then, before our very eyes, at the same time somehow keeping us all safe, we will be privileged to see the end of this earth and universe, and the making of a brand spanking new one for us to live and play on for eternity! Our eyes will finally see what Paul is talking about in this verse: “However, as it is written: “No eye has seen, no ear has heard, no mind has conceived what God has prepared for those who love him”—” (1 Corinthians 2:9)
Very well said! You're doing well!
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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Hebrews
Dec 1, 2019 11:48:51 GMT -5
Post by fearnot on Dec 1, 2019 11:48:51 GMT -5
Hebrews 12:25-
[smear:#e6191a]A Kingdom That Cannot Be Shaken[/smear:#3b19e6:0]
This starts with a warning or a command....Don't be blind, be very careful to pay attention, don't turn back, don't do like those in the past did, turning back ( to other gods, sin etc.) to death ( they did not escape they died in the desert, and pharaoh who turned from God also, died with all his soldiers in the sea.).
Jesus word's are always for our benefit, and our the final Word, and out of love.....don't turn away!
God did warn them from Mt Sinai, how much more should we listen, and obey when it comes from heavenly mt. Zion.
Turning away or going back, does not mean escape!!
God voice shook the earth when he spoke at mt Sinai...giving the 10 commandments
( maybe the church today could use a 'little' of that thunder and shaking, since it seems like some believers are asleep LOL)
When Jesus comes again...there will be even a much greater earthquake!!
In one sense there is an 'escape'.....
that is to flee to Jesus....the firm rock!
Our earth is not a firm rock....we think terra firma....as if earth were a solid rock ( actually its not really there is lava, and tons of water...
and if we look to build a firm life on a firm foundation here.....
it will, in the end, show itself to be more like a bog.....
The true solid 'rock' is Jesus.
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Hebrews
Dec 2, 2019 10:53:09 GMT -5
Post by Cindy on Dec 2, 2019 10:53:09 GMT -5
Hebrews 12:25-
[smear:#e6191a]A Kingdom That Cannot Be Shaken[/smear:#3b19e6:0]
This starts with a warning or a command....Don't be blind, be very careful to pay attention, don't turn back, don't do like those in the past did, turning back ( to other gods, sin etc.) to death ( they did not escape they died in the desert, and pharaoh who turned from God also, died with all his soldiers in the sea.).
Jesus word's are always for our benefit, and our the final Word, and out of love.....don't turn away!
God did warn them from Mt Sinai, how much more should we listen, and obey when it comes from heavenly mt. Zion.
Turning away or going back, does not mean escape!!
God voice shook the earth when he spoke at mt Sinai...giving the 10 commandments
( maybe the church today could use a 'little' of that thunder and shaking, since it seems like some believers are asleep LOL)
When Jesus comes again...there will be even a much greater earthquake!!
In one sense there is an 'escape'.....
that is to flee to Jesus....the firm rock!
Our earth is not a firm rock....we think terra firma....as if earth were a solid rock ( actually its not really there is lava, and tons of water...
and if we look to build a firm life on a firm foundation here.....
it will, in the end, show itself to be more like a bog.....
The true solid 'rock' is Jesus.
What book do you want to do next? Or would you rather pick a topic study? |
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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Hebrews
Dec 2, 2019 12:11:42 GMT -5
Post by fearnot on Dec 2, 2019 12:11:42 GMT -5
I would be fine with either.....do you have a choice in mind?
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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Hebrews
Dec 2, 2019 12:49:14 GMT -5
Post by fearnot on Dec 2, 2019 12:49:14 GMT -5
Hebrews 12: 27-29
These are the last 3 verses in ch. 12
[smear:#5b8d2b]27 "This phrase, “Yet once more,” indicates the removal of things that are shaken—that is, things that have been made—in order that the things that cannot be shaken may remain.
28 Therefore let us be grateful for receiving a kingdom that cannot be shaken, and thus let us offer to God acceptable worship, with reverence and awe,
29 for our God is a consuming fire".[/smear:#ab239a:0]
The 'yet once more', referring to the shaking that will happen when Jesus returns
but maybe more so
at the very end when the universe is rolled up and destroyed and then the new heaven and new Earth.
And all the sin, evil, pain, sorrow, etc. will be gone forever.....only the Holy, good, eternal will be able to remain.
Tho much may be shaking in our present world and our lives, we know and can hold onto with gratefulness that a kingdom which cannot be shaken will come. It is a good exhortation, motivation and encouragement to keep on standing firm for Christ.
The kingdom that is coming, will not be of law ( because there will not be sin), but of love.
There is so much to be joyously grateful for!!
So so much of what many of us stew, worry, complain, agonize over today, has no real eternal significance, therefore, the old saying to count our blessings, and be grateful for what God has done, and will do, behooves us.
We have been so blessed, God has not changed, He is still a consuming fire, but not to us, and we should be forever in awe that this is so.
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Hebrews
Dec 3, 2019 10:04:49 GMT -5
Post by Cindy on Dec 3, 2019 10:04:49 GMT -5
I would be fine with either.....do you have a choice in mind?
Hebrews 12: 27-29
These are the last 3 verses in ch. 12
[smear:#5b8d2b]27 "This phrase, “Yet once more,” indicates the removal of things that are shaken—that is, things that have been made—in order that the things that cannot be shaken may remain.
28 Therefore let us be grateful for receiving a kingdom that cannot be shaken, and thus let us offer to God acceptable worship, with reverence and awe,
29 for our God is a consuming fire".[/smear:#ab239a:0]
The 'yet once more', referring to the shaking that will happen when Jesus returns
but maybe more so
at the very end when the universe is rolled up and destroyed and then the new heaven and new Earth.
And all the sin, evil, pain, sorrow, etc. will be gone forever.....only the Holy, good, eternal will be able to remain.
Tho much may be shaking in our present world and our lives, we know and can hold onto with gratefulness that a kingdom which cannot be shaken will come. It is a good exhortation, motivation and encouragement to keep on standing firm for Christ.
The kingdom that is coming, will not be of law ( because there will not be sin), but of love.
There is so much to be joyously grateful for!!
So so much of what many of us stew, worry, complain, agonize over today, has no real eternal significance, therefore, the old saying to count our blessings, and be grateful for what God has done, and will do, behooves us.
We have been so blessed, God has not changed, He is still a consuming fire, but not to us, and we should be forever in awe that this is so.
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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Hebrews
Dec 3, 2019 11:20:27 GMT -5
Post by fearnot on Dec 3, 2019 11:20:27 GMT -5
One idea is to maybe just have a bit of time talking about the scriptures that as you wrote are about:
"Heaven...about the rapture, the millennial kingdom, and then eternity"
I would love to be so greatly encouraged, and as you said it is one of your favorite pastimes.
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Hebrews
Dec 3, 2019 11:22:17 GMT -5
Post by Cindy on Dec 3, 2019 11:22:17 GMT -5
that's fine with me, why don't you go ahead and start a new thread about it then?
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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Hebrews
Dec 3, 2019 12:35:31 GMT -5
Post by fearnot on Dec 3, 2019 12:35:31 GMT -5
Hebrews 13:1-2
Now we come to the last Chapter in Hebrews.
having looked at how the believer is to please God by hearing the Word etc.( loving God with all our heart),
The writer now looks to loving our brothers and sisters in Christ,
( and even our neighbors because such loving behavior, may also be the way, some non-believers are brought into the fold.....be lead to the Savior).
Our conduct should be always salted with love....
but sometimes it's hardest to be loving with those closest to us ( family like husband or wife, children, and our brothers and sisters in God.....and easier to be kind and loving to a stranger).
However, as we do so, we may point people to the love of Christ.
It is only by the Lord's power we can do this, because we are not yet perfect, rather, we are still sinners and fallen people....
We don't make it happen,
God continues it in us.....
we can tho sometimes stop and fail.....
still, as we do love our brethren, we give God the glory.
[smear:#c24019]"By this all people will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
John 13:35[/smear:#623bb4:3]
Further tho, we are to show hospitality to strangers:
Jesus said in Matthew 25:35
[smear:#e11235]" For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me"[/smear:#6d389c:2]
In our endlessly busy busy world of today, this could be easily overlooked, but it should not be so.
Some of our 'busy-ness' ( maybe a lot) is really selfishness....computer /video games, concerts, movies,
shopping for fun stuff, vacations, etc etc.
I am wondering if showing hospitality could be extended to mean, even showing interest to a stranger standing in line at the store, or hospital waiting room, etc.
I understand, in today's world, some would be a little leery of inviting a total stranger into your home for dinner....one might start with 'strangers' at church, or an elderly person., or a new family that has moved in
We live with much fear, and sometimes rightly so....the world is sinful and wicked.....
yet, we either have God and eternal life...or we do not.
Also I don't think it is to be done with the idea, the next week, the 'stranger' will invite you in for a supper.
There is also the aspect, you might be entertaining an angel....
but again, this is not the motivation for doing this.
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Hebrews
Dec 4, 2019 11:32:47 GMT -5
Post by Cindy on Dec 4, 2019 11:32:47 GMT -5
Hebrews 13:1-2
Now we come to the last Chapter in Hebrews.
having looked at how the believer is to please God by hearing the Word etc.( loving God with all our heart),
The writer now looks to loving our brothers and sisters in Christ,
( and even our neighbors because such loving behavior, may also be the way, some non-believers are brought into the fold.....be lead to the Savior).
Our conduct should be always salted with love....
but sometimes it's hardest to be loving with those closest to us ( family like husband or wife, children, and our brothers and sisters in God.....and easier to be kind and loving to a stranger).
However, as we do so, we may point people to the love of Christ.
It is only by the Lord's power we can do this, because we are not yet perfect, rather, we are still sinners and fallen people....
We don't make it happen,
God continues it in us.....
we can tho sometimes stop and fail.....
still, as we do love our brethren, we give God the glory.
[smear:#c24019]"By this all people will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
John 13:35[/smear:#623bb4:3]
Further tho, we are to show hospitality to strangers:
Jesus said in Matthew 25:35
[smear:#e11235]" For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me"[/smear:#6d389c:2]
In our endlessly busy busy world of today, this could be easily overlooked, but it should not be so.
Some of our 'busy-ness' ( maybe a lot) is really selfishness....computer /video games, concerts, movies,
shopping for fun stuff, vacations, etc etc.
I am wondering if showing hospitality could be extended to mean, even showing interest to a stranger standing in line at the store, or hospital waiting room, etc.
I understand, in today's world, some would be a little leery of inviting a total stranger into your home for dinner....one might start with 'strangers' at church, or an elderly person., or a new family that has moved in
We live with much fear, and sometimes rightly so....the world is sinful and wicked.....
yet, we either have God and eternal life...or we do not.
Also I don't think it is to be done with the idea, the next week, the 'stranger' will invite you in for a supper.
There is also the aspect, you might be entertaining an angel....
but again, this is not the motivation for doing this.
Well, hospitality can involve anyone, but the main definition, especially as the apostles meant it, is to invite someone into your home so you can provide them with either food or lodging or both. While many people today are scared of strangers for the reasons you said, we aren't supposed to be. Instead, God tells us to use common sense...but not the kind of this world. Instead we're to look at others using the mind of Christ and the intelligence that God gave us. If we see someone and after prayer decide that the person is too dangerous, then we should pass them by. But if we decide that they aren't too dangerous, then we should invite them in.
The reason I said "too dangerous" is because God expects us to count on Him to protect us. But at the same time, He doesn't want us to be stupid about things either. So you don't go and invite an escaped criminal into your home, or a person who has a dangerous look about them or maybe they just look angry, and you can see they carry weapons. But if you see someone that's homeless and they don't appear too dangerous to you after you've prayed about it, then you invite them to your home, offer them a bath while you wash their clothes for them perhaps. Then feed them and offer them a bed for the night. We can do that because we know the Lord will not only protect us, but He will also provide whatever food or supplies we need. The homeless man doesn't have that because he doesn't know our Lord the way we do.
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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Hebrews
Dec 4, 2019 11:49:52 GMT -5
Post by fearnot on Dec 4, 2019 11:49:52 GMT -5
Thank you!! I was in fact, pretty much thinking of what you said so much better!!! :)
In fact, it occurred to me, ( if we had had room in our small car ....but we did not with 3 children in it)
The homeless woman we gave money to at the entrance to the church, would have been a good person to have invited for a meal, and a shower.
The tricky part is how to offer a shower without offending .....
She was not 'smelly' or 'dirty' but clearly homeless.....not a scammer pretending to be
We had a neighbor about 5 or 10 years back...who was 'different'
a very smart lady, and had been at one time very wealthy
but her life had been filled with all manner of abuse ( in fact so bad she would often as a child sleep out in the kennels with the dogs to avoid being abused).
Anyway, she deteriorated in alcohol and drugs etc.
finally she was evicted from her house ( which was almost across the street from us).
She lived in her van.
She would visit often....
and for months it never occurred to ask if she would like to shower
finally I got up the courage ( I so did not want to make her feel bad by offering and sounding like you NEED it....she was always dressed cleanly, and looked well put together....but she lived in a van...no shower there).
When I asked her she was very happy and said thank so...yes!
And so she took a shower
But I still have no idea how to say it without sounding judgmental or something.
We would have even invited her to stay in our small hut ( less than 450 feet)
but we already knew she was super independent and wanted to do her drugs and drink etc. so would not have wanted to stay with us.
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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Hebrews
Dec 4, 2019 12:10:11 GMT -5
Post by fearnot on Dec 4, 2019 12:10:11 GMT -5
Hebrews 13:3-4
[smear:#4e138f]3 "Remember those who are in prison, as though in prison with them, and those who are mistreated, since you also are in the body.
4 Let marriage be held in honor among all, and let the marriage bed be undefiled, for God will judge the sexually immoral and adulterous. "[/smear:#ab1285:3]
We don't yet have Christians being put in prison in USA ( tho I think it is slowly but surely creeping up....we do have Christian business owners being literally put out of business for their Christian values, and in England a doctor has lost his job, and a pastor in Canada was arrested for evangelizing on the street....soooo
However, there are many many Christians in countries all over the world in prison simply because the believe in Jesus! We must not forget them but keep them in our prayers....daily.
And we need to remember by doing so Jesus said In Matthew 25: 36-40:
[smear:#3d710e]" I was in prison and you came to me.’
37 Then the righteous will answer him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink?
38 And when did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you?
39 And when did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?’
40 And the King will answer them,
‘Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers,you did it to me.’[/smear:#b30d2a:0]
[smear:#659b1f]"as though in prison with them"[/smear:#b120aa:1]....we are one 'body' and if one of our brothers or sisters are suffering, we suffer too. But also, we need to remember, that because we too have bodies, there is a chance of us also being thrown in prison ( as were the believers the writer was talking to).
Then we come to this verse:
[smear:#087d62]"Let marriage be held in honor among all, and let the marriage bed be undefiled, for God will judge the sexually immoral and adulterous."[/smear:#bc1b84:0]
Which is getting to be almost unheard of in this day and age. People think absolutely NOTHING of living together....in fact, for millions that IS the biggest 'commitment'... and marriage bed undefiled??????
If you are in 'love' that is all that counts...
based only on the 'feelings' at that particular moment...
no matter if one is 'in love' for a night or even a whole year!
because you know, you used to meet MY needs but now you don't!!
and words like immoral? what is that?
Even the idea of 'marriage' is considered archaic ...after all what is a 'piece of paper???
And How many Christians even think to include God in their marriage ceremony and all of their decisions.
Not remembering that God places a major high value on marriage between a man and a woman....
that is sure to cause a rumpus these days ( with words toss at any believer who would say such a narrow minded, bigoted, homophobic, hateful thing etc etc.)
The world's liberal ideas do not change the fact that being sexual immoral is never really love, and degrades people, uses each other, is often a sick perversion, abusive, cold, dismissive of God and His Word, is never truly thinking about the children involved whose hearts are broken again and again, dismissive of parents , careless of various diseases, often leads to suicides, etc etc.
Sexual 'freedom' is never 'free'
nor is it true 'love'...
lust....yes,
love...no.
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Hebrews
Dec 5, 2019 10:44:18 GMT -5
Post by Cindy on Dec 5, 2019 10:44:18 GMT -5
Thank you!! I was in fact, pretty much thinking of what you said so much better!!! :)
In fact, it occurred to me, ( if we had had room in our small car ....but we did not with 3 children in it)
The homeless woman we gave money to at the entrance to the church, would have been a good person to have invited for a meal, and a shower.
The tricky part is how to offer a shower without offending .....
She was not 'smelly' or 'dirty' but clearly homeless.....not a scammer pretending to be
We had a neighbor about 5 or 10 years back...who was 'different'
a very smart lady, and had been at one time very wealthy
but her life had been filled with all manner of abuse ( in fact so bad she would often as a child sleep out in the kennels with the dogs to avoid being abused).
Anyway, she deteriorated in alcohol and drugs etc.
finally she was evicted from her house ( which was almost across the street from us).
She lived in her van.
She would visit often....
and for months it never occurred to ask if she would like to shower
finally I got up the courage ( I so did not want to make her feel bad by offering and sounding like you NEED it....she was always dressed cleanly, and looked well put together....but she lived in a van...no shower there).
When I asked her she was very happy and said thank so...yes!
And so she took a shower
But I still have no idea how to say it without sounding judgmental or something.
We would have even invited her to stay in our small hut ( less than 450 feet)
but we already knew she was super independent and wanted to do her drugs and drink etc. so would not have wanted to stay with us.
Hebrews 13:3-4
[smear:#4e138f]3 "Remember those who are in prison, as though in prison with them, and those who are mistreated, since you also are in the body.
4 Let marriage be held in honor among all, and let the marriage bed be undefiled, for God will judge the sexually immoral and adulterous. "[/smear:#ab1285:3]
We don't yet have Christians being put in prison in USA ( tho I think it is slowly but surely creeping up....we do have Christian business owners being literally put out of business for their Christian values, and in England a doctor has lost his job, and a pastor in Canada was arrested for evangelizing on the street....soooo
However, there are many many Christians in countries all over the world in prison simply because the believe in Jesus! We must not forget them but keep them in our prayers....daily.
And we need to remember by doing so Jesus said In Matthew 25: 36-40:
[smear:#3d710e]" I was in prison and you came to me.’
37 Then the righteous will answer him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink?
38 And when did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you?
39 And when did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?’
40 And the King will answer them,
‘Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers,you did it to me.’[/smear:#b30d2a:0]
[smear:#659b1f]"as though in prison with them"[/smear:#b120aa:1]....we are one 'body' and if one of our brothers or sisters are suffering, we suffer too. But also, we need to remember, that because we too have bodies, there is a chance of us also being thrown in prison ( as were the believers the writer was talking to).
Then we come to this verse:
[smear:#087d62]"Let marriage be held in honor among all, and let the marriage bed be undefiled, for God will judge the sexually immoral and adulterous."[/smear:#bc1b84:0]
Which is getting to be almost unheard of in this day and age. People think absolutely NOTHING of living together....in fact, for millions that IS the biggest 'commitment'... and marriage bed undefiled??????
If you are in 'love' that is all that counts...
based only on the 'feelings' at that particular moment...
no matter if one is 'in love' for a night or even a whole year!
because you know, you used to meet MY needs but now you don't!!
and words like immoral? what is that?
Even the idea of 'marriage' is considered archaic ...after all what is a 'piece of paper???
And How many Christians even think to include God in their marriage ceremony and all of their decisions.
Not remembering that God places a major high value on marriage between a man and a woman....
that is sure to cause a rumpus these days ( with words toss at any believer who would say such a narrow minded, bigoted, homophobic, hateful thing etc etc.)
The world's liberal ideas do not change the fact that being sexual immoral is never really love, and degrades people, uses each other, is often a sick perversion, abusive, cold, dismissive of God and His Word, is never truly thinking about the children involved whose hearts are broken again and again, dismissive of parents , careless of various diseases, often leads to suicides, etc etc.
Sexual 'freedom' is never 'free'
nor is it true 'love'...
lust....yes,
love...no.
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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Hebrews
Dec 5, 2019 11:57:31 GMT -5
Post by fearnot on Dec 5, 2019 11:57:31 GMT -5
Hebrews 13: 5-6
[smear:#3c8550]5 Keep your life free from love of money, and be content with what you have, for he has said, “I will never leave you nor forsake you.”
6 So we can confidently say,
“The Lord is my helper;
I will not fear;
what can man do to me?”[/smear:#bb2139:0]
For awhile people would boast that they were able to multi-task so many things
but then science kind of blew that out of the water, by saying, that what actually happens when a person multi-tasks is they do not give each task 100% attention ( but at best the attention is evenly divided).
Well when one "loves' money ( what it can buy, what it can do for us etc.),
we are not loving God will all our heart, mind and soul.
[smear:#a31228]Luke 16:13
"No servant can serve two masters, for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and money.”[/smear:#1d9450:0]
For a Biblical example would be Ananias and Sapphira ....that did not work out well for them....they were still saved, but that love of money even cut their lives very short! As it did for Achan ( and that affected his whole family).
Furthermore, when we give hours and hours a day. clamoring after money.....that is saying, God is stingy and is not providing well for us. Yes we have to work in order to have a roof over our heads and food on the table, etc......but that is different than LOVING money.
Because it is an addiction....the more money one lusts after ( and actually gets)......the more and more and more one 'needs' and wants to get that high.
People often think that if they had a lot of money.....they would be more 'free'.....quite often however, they find themselves, slaves to their 'stuff'......ever see a man, endless waxing, polishing, fixing etc. his prize car, or a woman, decorating, and redecorating, and redecorating her lovely home....who owns whom??
The opposite and correct attitude is to be content, with what one has......
content
or
ever grasping for more, more, better, better, higher higher.
There is a balance because it
True things break, wear out and need to be replaced, that is different than say a woman see the latest and very expensive fashion this month and buys it.....
but next month the tread changes,
and so she must buy a whole new wardrobe.....she is never content....and the world seeks to keep him or her that way ( the sellers of stuff, also want to chase after money).
to think we will find security and happiness in stuff just is not so.
There is a place to 'store up' treasures ( but they are different than earthly stuff) ...in Heaven
Where do we want our heart to be?
In eternity forever with Jesus,
or
here on earth with decaying stuff?
Who gives us endless contentment......our God!
Things are just things....they rust, tarnish, deteriorate etc.
My God never does!
We may need to "pull some weeds of greed"
And they were and are people who are not demanding God provide them this and that ( nor are of the false prosperity
gospel) but in fact, with true fact, contentment etc. relied on God....like George Mueller.
Jesus warned us that its not true ....that the man with the most toys ,wins
when Jesus said
[smear:#362691]" “Take care, and be on your guard against all covetousness, for one's life does not consist in the abundance of his possessions.” Luke 12:13[/smear:#580c36:0]
But.....on the other hand he also said one of my most favored 'possessions' of His words....His 'promise' :)
[smear:#e42352]
"he has said, “I will never leave you nor forsake you.” [/smear:#481fad:0]
God Himself has promised to be our helper.
it is true that men can be most brutal, without pity, cruel and evil.....they can torture people horribly without blinking an eye, before finally killing them.....
and yet, many people fear these things ( way before it happens to them, and for many people they live and die in fear of such things and it never does happen, but they suffered fear of man all their lives).
Yet if one reads of the martyrs they find men and woman, suffering terrible things at men hands,
and yet,
hey had such faith in the Lord,
you would almost begin to think,
they were not suffering physical pain at all!!
In fact, I wonder,
if there were two people
one... who always fretted, all their life, in fear of suffering great pain under torture
and another
who trusted in God and did not fear what men might do to them
Then
they were both caught one day
and indeed tortured before dying.
would the one in fear all his or her life
actually feel more pain
( I am just speculating wildly here ...
but perhaps even on a 'scientific' biological level.....living under constant fear, ruined their adrenal glands so much,
their adrenals were shot , ruined, due to constant fear
so much so that that they actually felt more pain
the very pain that they had always feared?
But the man who did not live in fear was more like Steven, who felt the comfort of Jesus sooo much ....
[smear:#4d6914]"he cried out with a loud voice, “Lord, do not hold this sin against them.” [/smear:#c01986:0]
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Hebrews
Dec 6, 2019 11:09:56 GMT -5
Post by Cindy on Dec 6, 2019 11:09:56 GMT -5
Hebrews 13: 5-6
[smear:#3c8550]5 Keep your life free from love of money, and be content with what you have, for he has said, “I will never leave you nor forsake you.”
6 So we can confidently say,
“The Lord is my helper;
I will not fear;
what can man do to me?”[/smear:#bb2139:0]
For awhile people would boast that they were able to multi-task so many things
but then science kind of blew that out of the water, by saying, that what actually happens when a person multi-tasks is they do not give each task 100% attention ( but at best the attention is evenly divided).
Well when one "loves' money ( what it can buy, what it can do for us etc.),
we are not loving God will all our heart, mind and soul.
[smear:#a31228]Luke 16:13
"No servant can serve two masters, for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and money.”[/smear:#1d9450:0]
For a Biblical example would be Ananias and Sapphira ....that did not work out well for them....they were still saved, but that love of money even cut their lives very short! As it did for Achan ( and that affected his whole family).
Furthermore, when we give hours and hours a day. clamoring after money.....that is saying, God is stingy and is not providing well for us. Yes we have to work in order to have a roof over our heads and food on the table, etc......but that is different than LOVING money.
Because it is an addiction....the more money one lusts after ( and actually gets)......the more and more and more one 'needs' and wants to get that high.
People often think that if they had a lot of money.....they would be more 'free'.....quite often however, they find themselves, slaves to their 'stuff'......ever see a man, endless waxing, polishing, fixing etc. his prize car, or a woman, decorating, and redecorating, and redecorating her lovely home....who owns whom??
The opposite and correct attitude is to be content, with what one has......
content
or
ever grasping for more, more, better, better, higher higher.
There is a balance because it
True things break, wear out and need to be replaced, that is different than say a woman see the latest and very expensive fashion this month and buys it.....
but next month the tread changes,
and so she must buy a whole new wardrobe.....she is never content....and the world seeks to keep him or her that way ( the sellers of stuff, also want to chase after money).
to think we will find security and happiness in stuff just is not so.
There is a place to 'store up' treasures ( but they are different than earthly stuff) ...in Heaven
Where do we want our heart to be?
In eternity forever with Jesus,
or
here on earth with decaying stuff?
Who gives us endless contentment......our God!
Things are just things....they rust, tarnish, deteriorate etc.
My God never does!
We may need to "pull some weeds of greed"
And they were and are people who are not demanding God provide them this and that ( nor are of the false prosperity
gospel) but in fact, with true fact, contentment etc. relied on God....like George Mueller.
Jesus warned us that its not true ....that the man with the most toys ,wins
when Jesus said
[smear:#362691]" “Take care, and be on your guard against all covetousness, for one's life does not consist in the abundance of his possessions.” Luke 12:13[/smear:#580c36:0]
But.....on the other hand he also said one of my most favored 'possessions' of His words....His 'promise' :)
[smear:#e42352]
"he has said, “I will never leave you nor forsake you.” [/smear:#481fad:0]
God Himself has promised to be our helper.
it is true that men can be most brutal, without pity, cruel and evil.....they can torture people horribly without blinking an eye, before finally killing them.....
and yet, many people fear these things ( way before it happens to them, and for many people they live and die in fear of such things and it never does happen, but they suffered fear of man all their lives).
Yet if one reads of the martyrs they find men and woman, suffering terrible things at men hands,
and yet,
hey had such faith in the Lord,
you would almost begin to think,
they were not suffering physical pain at all!!
In fact, I wonder,
if there were two people
one... who always fretted, all their life, in fear of suffering great pain under torture
and another
who trusted in God and did not fear what men might do to them
Then
they were both caught one day
and indeed tortured before dying.
would the one in fear all his or her life
actually feel more pain
( I am just speculating wildly here ...
but perhaps even on a 'scientific' biological level.....living under constant fear, ruined their adrenal glands so much,
their adrenals were shot , ruined, due to constant fear
so much so that that they actually felt more pain
the very pain that they had always feared?
But the man who did not live in fear was more like Steven, who felt the comfort of Jesus sooo much ....
[smear:#4d6914]"he cried out with a loud voice, “Lord, do not hold this sin against them.” [/smear:#c01986:0]
About the man who lived in fear and the one who didn't and who would feel more pain, you left out one important consideration. Even if you assume the one who lived in fear would feel more pain then the other one, you're only looking at the physical; you're not taking into account what God can and would do for them? God won't punish the man for being fearful. He will help both men.
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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Hebrews
Dec 6, 2019 11:32:29 GMT -5
Post by fearnot on Dec 6, 2019 11:32:29 GMT -5
Hebrews 13: 7-9
[smear:#e6196c]7 Remember your leaders, those who spoke to you the word of God. Consider the outcome of their way of life, and imitate their faith.
8 Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever.
9 Do not be led away by diverse and strange teachings, for it is good for the heart to be strengthened by grace, not by foods, which have not benefited those devoted to them.[/smear:#1cbe2a:1]
We are to remember to pray for ( regularly), encourage, help and support our pastors to whatever ever degree we can....because they have spoken (preached) the Word to us ( we have the Holy Spirit and also pastors who explain it).
We can also remember other pastors besides our local one, like John MacArthur ( tho he is not my local pastor I can still pray for him). We can read biographies of and works of ( sermons etc.) pastors from ages past like Spurgeon, Calvin, etc.
And we can imitate, emulate, follow as an godly example, and be encouraged, by their their faith.
But even more so.....is another one of my favorite verses
Tho godly men and woman can be great examples to us
The very highest is God himself!!
[smear:#1e1870]
Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever. [/smear:#bc1932:1]
Another smaller reason is sometimes people become so in love with a godly man or woman, that when they die, people are left devastated...the truth is godly teaches come and....go
but Jesus is God.....He always was, and always will be, and He is with us today.
In our world we can 'count on' change....things change, people come and go, we grow up, older, and die, we get different rulers, we may get sick or well, etc etc.
However, what comforts me, is God does NOT change!!!
Still some people think change is great!
But this Bible passages warns against 'change' by saying:
[smear:#d2b822]"Do not be led away by diverse and strange teachings", [/smear:#2b67a5:1]
These strange or diverse teaching can be covered in what seems like logic and positive change.
You may hear those who will say......well Paul was writing in a totally different time, woman were considered often less worthy than a favorite dog, or cow or some other animal....
So expecting submission today is akin to slavery, barbaric etc.
Others like to claim they have a new word directly from God for you!!
and another is a subtle version is ....of 'creative independence' for believers, since, they are no longer under the law but grace....
yes...
and the creative independent sheep, almost always ends up, lost, in dire trouble, or dead.
So its not just the prosperity false gospel, of all the cults ( claiming to be Christians) with their strange ideas
some of them might be right in our church or midst.
God's truth does not change ( and people remain sinners, that does not change either).
That is not to say, every 'new' worship song is wrong or false, or woman clothing which has changed is necessarily wrong.
This is about true and sound doctrine as opposed to spiritual junk food which are false gospels.
Be certain tho.... some will call you: 'intolerance', a rigid 'fundamentalist', a 'legalist' etc. because you believe in the belief in absolute truth of the Bible.
Which is not to say Legalism does not exist....it did then, and it does now....but then as now, it often has to do with foods for example ( this food is good, but this is bad) etc. etc.
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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Hebrews
Dec 7, 2019 12:21:11 GMT -5
Post by fearnot on Dec 7, 2019 12:21:11 GMT -5
Hebrews 13: 10-11
[smear:#2313a0]10 We have an altar from which those who serve the tent have no right to eat.
11 For the bodies of those animals whose blood is brought into the holy places by the high priest as a sacrifice for sin are burned outside the camp.
[/smear:#60a004:1]
Those who cling to the old Jewish law, external and ceremonial rituals, cannot eat the spiritual food of the New Covenant.
In the old Covenant, the priests were able to eat some of the food offered,...animals slain/sacrificed on the altar.
One might wonder what was the 'altar' Christ Jesus was sacrificed on....
it was the Cross.
I am thinking it is not that Jesus took away the 'blessings' of the law, but rather the curses...
that is one of the differences between the Old and the New....under the old, the Law could not be kept perfectly, Jesus did keep it perfectly.
The next verse I really needed to read some commentaries....because I didn't get that this was referring to the Day of Atonement where the blood of the sacrificed animals ( for sin) was brought into the Holy of Holies....but the bodies were burned outside the camp and the priests could not eat of them.
Jesus died outside the camp ( for our sins).
We however have Jesus available for us everyday.
Sorry this is soooooo short...
I am not feeling well (vertigo back and cold is trying....sneezing etc) , did not sleep well at all
and its our one day a month of shopping.
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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Hebrews
Dec 8, 2019 11:17:05 GMT -5
Post by fearnot on Dec 8, 2019 11:17:05 GMT -5
Hebrew 13: 12-14
[smear:#e61985]12 So Jesus also suffered outside the gate in order to sanctify the people through his own blood.
13 Therefore let us go to him outside the camp and bear the reproach he endured.
14 For here we have no lasting city, but we seek the city that is to come. [/smear:#20e619:3]
Jesus suffered and died outside the gates atoning for our sins. ( the bodies of the sacrificed animals on the day of Atonement, point to the ultimate sacrifice for sin...Jesus).
We also need to leave the 'world'....and all it's sin.
To be assured, we might suffer reproach, and/ or rejection to some degree or another.
But to whatever degree we can draw near to Jesus.
We take the straight and narrow way, away from the world and its corruption.
As an aside, Jesus was also an example in how to suffer with courage, knowing what lies for us in the future.
Suffering in any degree for Jesus, is better than anything the world has to offer...because He is the greatest power, love etc.
In fact, there have been those who have rejoiced to have been considered worthy enough to suffer for His name.
We suffer outside the city ( the world and it sin-filled systems, life-styles, goals, morals, etc.)
It is not our home, and it won't last forever.
We are to set our minds on things above, not the things on earth.
And we have clearly said, that we here in USA at this time, do not suffer to the extremes then, or as other believers around the world throughout the ages and even today...
Still, we do suffer pain, sorrow, anger, reproaches, scorn etc. often from our own family members, workers, friends, etc.
I was listening yesterday to Ray comfort and various his staff, and friends...
talking about how it is actually easier to witness to total strangers often, then, family members.
So there are different degrees of suffering ( to barely there to extreme torture),
but all Christians will get some sort of suffering for Jesus, at some time.
Our life is like a series in a book, or TV series that says: to be continued....
The best is yet to come.....continued in Heaven.
When we die it is the last chapter of here on earth
but the beginning of forever in eternity with Jesus
We are seeking our real home, our real city.....,
our real Love and Savior Jesus.
Nothing is better.
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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Hebrews
Dec 9, 2019 13:58:06 GMT -5
Post by fearnot on Dec 9, 2019 13:58:06 GMT -5
[smear:#643076]Hebrews 13: 15-16
15 Through him then let us continually offer up a sacrifice of praise to God, that is, the fruit of lips that acknowledge his name.
16 Do not neglect to do good and to share what you have, for such sacrifices are pleasing to God.
[/smear:#ee4a14:0]
We no longer offer up animal sacrifices to God as believers.....
And Jesus was the ultimate and last 'sacrifice' for our sins!!!
and yet
but does that mean we no longer 'sacrifice'?
actually no...
we still do
but instead...
now we offer up a continually 'sacrifice'...... of praise to God!!
And as 'priests' we offer up praise from our lips.
Many people offer foul, crude, swearing from their lips and pat themselves on the back as being 'free', but are in fact enslaved to their sinful, depraved, fallen nature...
and, of course, there is no beauty or love in such foul language
all it produces is rotten filthy, fruit.
as believers we are to offer up the sweet fragrance of praise to our God...
which brings fruits of worship, peace, love, joy, mercy, gratefulness, etc,
Furthermore, we are to share with others...( and not to neglect doing so)
so it is not only sacrifices from our lips, but of our substance.
The main reason for doing so is we love our Lord, and these things please HIm
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Hebrews
Dec 9, 2019 14:35:20 GMT -5
Post by Cindy on Dec 9, 2019 14:35:20 GMT -5
Hebrews 13: 7-9
[smear:#e6196c]7 Remember your leaders, those who spoke to you the word of God. Consider the outcome of their way of life, and imitate their faith.
8 Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever.
9 Do not be led away by diverse and strange teachings, for it is good for the heart to be strengthened by grace, not by foods, which have not benefited those devoted to them.[/smear:#1cbe2a:1]
We are to remember to pray for ( regularly), encourage, help and support our pastors to whatever ever degree we can....because they have spoken (preached) the Word to us ( we have the Holy Spirit and also pastors who explain it).
We can also remember other pastors besides our local one, like John MacArthur ( tho he is not my local pastor I can still pray for him). We can read biographies of and works of ( sermons etc.) pastors from ages past like Spurgeon, Calvin, etc.
And we can imitate, emulate, follow as an godly example, and be encouraged, by their their faith.
But even more so.....is another one of my favorite verses
Tho godly men and woman can be great examples to us
The very highest is God himself!!
[smear:#1e1870]
Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever. [/smear:#bc1932:1]
Another smaller reason is sometimes people become so in love with a godly man or woman, that when they die, people are left devastated...the truth is godly teaches come and....go
but Jesus is God.....He always was, and always will be, and He is with us today.
In our world we can 'count on' change....things change, people come and go, we grow up, older, and die, we get different rulers, we may get sick or well, etc etc.
However, what comforts me, is God does NOT change!!!
Still some people think change is great!
But this Bible passages warns against 'change' by saying:
[smear:#d2b822]"Do not be led away by diverse and strange teachings", [/smear:#2b67a5:1]
These strange or diverse teaching can be covered in what seems like logic and positive change.
You may hear those who will say......well Paul was writing in a totally different time, woman were considered often less worthy than a favorite dog, or cow or some other animal....
So expecting submission today is akin to slavery, barbaric etc.
Others like to claim they have a new word directly from God for you!!
and another is a subtle version is ....of 'creative independence' for believers, since, they are no longer under the law but grace....
yes...
and the creative independent sheep, almost always ends up, lost, in dire trouble, or dead.
So its not just the prosperity false gospel, of all the cults ( claiming to be Christians) with their strange ideas
some of them might be right in our church or midst.
God's truth does not change ( and people remain sinners, that does not change either).
That is not to say, every 'new' worship song is wrong or false, or woman clothing which has changed is necessarily wrong.
This is about true and sound doctrine as opposed to spiritual junk food which are false gospels.
Be certain tho.... some will call you: 'intolerance', a rigid 'fundamentalist', a 'legalist' etc. because you believe in the belief in absolute truth of the Bible.
Which is not to say Legalism does not exist....it did then, and it does now....but then as now, it often has to do with foods for example ( this food is good, but this is bad) etc. etc.
Sadly, today, many people seem to think that being berean is the pastor's job and not theirs. They don't want to have to do the work to discover if what he's saying is true. And it is work for them because they don't love the Lord or His Word and aren't really saved anyway.
Like I said, you said this too, I just wanted it to be extra clear. Good job though!
Hebrews 13: 10-11
[smear:#2313a0]10 We have an altar from which those who serve the tent have no right to eat.
11 For the bodies of those animals whose blood is brought into the holy places by the high priest as a sacrifice for sin are burned outside the camp.
[/smear:#60a004:1]
Those who cling to the old Jewish law, external and ceremonial rituals, cannot eat the spiritual food of the New Covenant.
In the old Covenant, the priests were able to eat some of the food offered,...animals slain/sacrificed on the altar.
One might wonder what was the 'altar' Christ Jesus was sacrificed on....
it was the Cross.
I am thinking it is not that Jesus took away the 'blessings' of the law, but rather the curses...
that is one of the differences between the Old and the New....under the old, the Law could not be kept perfectly, Jesus did keep it perfectly.
The next verse I really needed to read some commentaries....because I didn't get that this was referring to the Day of Atonement where the blood of the sacrificed animals ( for sin) was brought into the Holy of Holies....but the bodies were burned outside the camp and the priests could not eat of them.
Jesus died outside the camp ( for our sins).
We however have Jesus available for us everyday.
Sorry this is soooooo short...
I am not feeling well (vertigo back and cold is trying....sneezing etc) , did not sleep well at all
and its our one day a month of shopping.
“We have an altar from which those who minister at the tabernacle have no right to eat. The high priest carries the blood of animals into the Most Holy Place as a sin offering, but the bodies are burned outside the camp. And so Jesus also suffered outside the city gate to make the people holy through his own blood. Let us, then, go to him outside the camp, bearing the disgrace he bore.” (Hebrews 13:10–13)
Our "altar" is Jesus and it's through Him that we offer our spiritual sacrifices to God. (Hebrews 13:15; and 1 Peter 2:5)
“Through Jesus, therefore, let us continually offer to God a sacrifice of praise—the fruit of lips that confess his name.” (Hebrews 13:15)
“you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.” (1 Peter 2:5)
You said: I am thinking it is not that Jesus took away the 'blessings' of the law, but rather the curses...
Deuteronomy 27-28 lists some of the OT Blessings that the Jew's received when they obeyed the Lord; and curses that happened when they didn't. Although we are Abraham's children of promise through Christ, we do not receive these particular blessings. These were meant for the Jew's and converts during the OT age of the Law, not for us during the age of Grace. As far as the curses go, many of them were natural consequences of particular sins and those same things happen to us when we do those same sins. Others, like having our country conquered and being taken prisoner as a slave do not happen to us, because God has not made that same covenant with us. When we're saved, we don't become "Jewish" (unlike what some folks that are trying to get back to the Jewish roots of Christianity say). Instead, we become saved followers of Christ and a child of God. That's what happens to anyone that is saved, regardless of what country they originally belonged to. So even a Jew doesn't become "more Jewish", they become saved and a follower of Christ. On the other hand, Jesus was made a curse for us, for “cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree.”
Jesus also bore the curse of the performance based law for all of us, because we couldn't do it. I'm thinking this is what you're talking about right?
“Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree.”” (Galatians 3:13)
“you must not leave his body on the tree overnight. Be sure to bury him that same day, because anyone who is hung on a tree is under God’s curse. You must not desecrate the land the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance.” (Deuteronomy 21:23)
“For you know that it was not with perishable things such as silver or gold that you were redeemed from the empty way of life handed down to you from your forefathers, but with the precious blood of Christ, a lamb without blemish or defect.” (1 Peter 1:18–19)
The author is trying to show us the difference between following a dead religion and having an actual relationship with God through Jesus. He chose to do that using the Day of Atonement as an example. On that day the Jews fasted and wept and confessed and repented of their sins. That's what that day was all about. Then, the sin offering was taken outside the camp, because sin is unclean, and completely burned. It's completely burned up instead of being eaten like other sacrifices were, to show them that sin is very contagious and easily spreads. It was burned completely up outside the camp in order to prevent the sin from spreading to others in the city, and polluting everyone. Also the Bible shows fire as a cleansing agent.
Of course, Heb 13:10–13 tells us, this was a picture of our Lord Jesus Christ who died “outside the city gate … outside the camp” as our sin offering.
Hebrew 13: 12-14
[smear:#e61985]12 So Jesus also suffered outside the gate in order to sanctify the people through his own blood.
13 Therefore let us go to him outside the camp and bear the reproach he endured.
14 For here we have no lasting city, but we seek the city that is to come. [/smear:#20e619:3]
Jesus suffered and died outside the gates atoning for our sins. ( the bodies of the sacrificed animals on the day of Atonement, point to the ultimate sacrifice for sin...Jesus).
We also need to leave the 'world'....and all it's sin.
To be assured, we might suffer reproach, and/ or rejection to some degree or another.
But to whatever degree we can draw near to Jesus.
We take the straight and narrow way, away from the world and its corruption.
As an aside, Jesus was also an example in how to suffer with courage, knowing what lies for us in the future.
Suffering in any degree for Jesus, is better than anything the world has to offer...because He is the greatest power, love etc.
In fact, there have been those who have rejoiced to have been considered worthy enough to suffer for His name.
We suffer outside the city ( the world and it sin-filled systems, life-styles, goals, morals, etc.)
It is not our home, and it won't last forever.
We are to set our minds on things above, not the things on earth.
And we have clearly said, that we here in USA at this time, do not suffer to the extremes then, or as other believers around the world throughout the ages and even today...
Still, we do suffer pain, sorrow, anger, reproaches, scorn etc. often from our own family members, workers, friends, etc.
I was listening yesterday to Ray comfort and various his staff, and friends...
talking about how it is actually easier to witness to total strangers often, then, family members.
So there are different degrees of suffering ( to barely there to extreme torture),
but all Christians will get some sort of suffering for Jesus, at some time.
Our life is like a series in a book, or TV series that says: to be continued....
The best is yet to come.....continued in Heaven.
When we die it is the last chapter of here on earth
but the beginning of forever in eternity with Jesus
We are seeking our real home, our real city.....,
our real Love and Savior Jesus.
Nothing is better.
Very good hon!
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Good to see you Marlene! You've been missed! 
