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Post by Cindy on Sept 18, 2018 10:28:35 GMT -5
by Michelle Lesley
Welcome to our new study, Imperishable Beauty: A Study of Biblical Womanhood! The title of our study is taken from 1 Peter 3:4 (one of the passages we’ll be studying): “but let your adorning be the hidden person of the heart with the imperishable beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which in God’s sight is very precious.” (1 Peter 3:4 ESV)
What does it look like to live “a godly life in Christ Jesus” as a woman in the 21st century? Over the next several weeks we’ll take a look at the topic of biblical womanhood, examining the Scriptures that teach us how to live as godly women. Young or old, married or single, if you’d like to grow in Christlikeness in your God-given role as a woman, this study is for you.
Introduction to Imperishable Beauty
My philosophy of Bible study is that our main “diet” should be systematic, expositional study of the text. In other words: pick a book of the Bible, start at the beginning, and study it through to the end. Then, pick another book and start again. This method of studying helps us understand passages in their context and correctly apply them to our lives, and helps us avoid eisegesis, taking passages out of context, and incorrectly applying them.
However, there is a place for the study of a biblical topic such as peace, sin, the family, God’s wrath, or biblical womanhood. For example: if you’re struggling to trust God because of a sudden circumstance in your life, you don’t have time to study through every book of the Bible to learn what the Bible says about trusting God. You may need to spend some time in focused study on passages from various books that deal specifically with the topic of trusting God, and that’s OK. My goal with this study is not only that you learn what the Bible has to say about the topic of biblical womanhood, but also to demonstrate how to do a topical study properly so you can do topical studies on your own when the need arises.
Normally, in the introductory lesson to my studies, we take a look at the author of the book of the Bible we’re studying, the audience he wrote it to, the historical setting of the book, and other “backstory” issues. But because this is a topical study, and we’ll be examining passages from various books of the Bible, we’ll have to briefly address those issues as needed in each lesson.
So in the introduction to this study, I’d like to address two items in your “backstory.”
Salvation
If you’re not saved, this study isn’t going to be very helpful to you. You’ll probably find it confusing, frustrating, even angering. First Corinthians 2:14 says:
The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.
Only saved people are able to accept, embrace, and carry out biblical living because they have become new creatures in Christ and have the indwelling Holy Spirit to enable them to understand and obey Scripture.
This week, before we tackle biblical womanhood, I’d like everyone – even if you know beyond a shadow of a doubt that you’re saved – to work through the Scriptures in my article Basic Training: The Gospel. Do you understand the biblical gospel? Have you truly repented of your sin and trusted Christ as Savior? Spend some time alone with God examining your heart and life against these Scriptures. If you’re unsure whether or not you’re genuinely saved, I would encourage you to put this study aside and work through my study Am I Really Saved?: A First John Check Up first. You can’t be a godly woman if you don’t belong to God.
Expectations and Presuppositions
What do you expect out of this study? What kinds of ideas or preconceived notions are you carrying into this study? Take some time to answer the following questions.
1. When you hear the phrase “biblical womanhood”, what do you think of?
2. Without looking in your Bible, write a brief character sketch of the ideal “biblical woman.” What are some of her character traits, habits, things she focuses on, etc.?
3. What does your church teach about biblical womanhood- how a godly woman acts, talks, lives her life, etc.?
4. What Scriptures come to mind when you think about biblical womanhood?
5. Look up some of the Scriptures you listed in #4 and compare them to your character sketch from #2 and your answer to #3. How do they compare?
6. Why are you interested in a study of biblical womanhood, and what do you hope to get out of this study?
7. Why do you want to be a godly, biblical woman?
8. Some studies of “biblical” womanhood are the type that tell you how awesome you are, that “you’re enough” (whatever that means), that you can take charge of your life, girlfriend, and make all your dreams come true, and that you deserve to have the world at your feet.
This isn’t that kind of study.
Certainly, God is gracious, merciful, kind, comforting, and forgiving, and those wonderful attributes will be addressed as they come up in the texts we study. But becoming a godly woman also involves repenting from sin, obedience to Christ and His Word (even when we don’t feel like it), dying to self, and sometimes even suffering.
Are you prepared to have the Bible step on your toes? Are you committed to obeying Scripture out of love for Christ? Do you have the mindset that the Bible is your authority, not your own opinions, experiences, and feelings?
Take some time in prayer this week to begin preparing your heart for this study. If there’s a specific issue you struggle with regarding being a godly woman, ask God to open your eyes to the truth of His Word and strengthen you to obey Him in that area. I’m excited to have you join me in this journey of discovering what God’s Word has to say about living life as a godly, biblical woman!
Posted with Permission:
michellelesley.com/2018/09/12/imperishable-beauty-lesson-1/
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383 
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Post by fearnot on Sept 18, 2018 12:44:51 GMT -5
Thank you Cindy for the new study!!
I am thinking we are to answer these questions first?
instead of jumping in.....I will wait to be sure that is the right idea, but if yes, I will try to start tomorrow, but I will go to our Bible Study now. :-)
1. When you hear the phrase “biblical womanhood”, what do you think of?
2. Without looking in your Bible, write a brief character sketch of the ideal “biblical woman.” What are some of her character traits, habits, things she focuses on, etc.?
3. What does your church teach about biblical womanhood- how a godly woman acts, talks, lives her life, etc.?
4. What Scriptures come to mind when you think about biblical womanhood?
5. Look up some of the Scriptures you listed in #4 and compare them to your character sketch from #2 and your answer to #3. How do they compare?
6. Why are you interested in a study of biblical womanhood, and what do you hope to get out of this study?
7. Why do you want to be a godly, biblical woman?
8. Some studies of “biblical” womanhood are the type that tell you how awesome you are, that “you’re enough” (whatever that means), that you can take charge of your life, girlfriend, and make all your dreams come true, and that you deserve to have the world at your feet.
Read more: fresh-hope.com/thread/4401/imperishable-beauty-study-biblical-womanhood?page=1#ixzz5RTb9KIDj |
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Post by Cindy on Sept 19, 2018 9:13:13 GMT -5
This one isn't meant to be done quickly. She only posts one study a week. Even before those questions there's some other things she asks us to do. I forgot to add the link to her other article, but have added it now so you can check it too. So take your time and do it as you can. If you want to do it over the weekend, that's fine too. If you need to make Friday a part of it, that's ok too. However you want to do it. What I have to remind myself of is that the study is meant to bring you closer to the Lord, and the questions are things that are meant to be discussed with Him first, not just answered by us. Some questions will ask about what your church says, so if you don't know, just talk about what you've learned about it before.
By the way, the questions for #8 are further down the page....
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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Post by fearnot on Sept 21, 2018 11:27:46 GMT -5
1. When you hear the phrase “biblical womanhood”, what do you think of?
2. Without looking in your Bible, write a brief character sketch of the ideal “biblical woman.” What are some of her character traits, habits, things she focuses on, etc.
A)-
The first thing I think of is not necessarily for Biblical woman but men as well, and that is to love the Lord with all one's heart mind and spirit and others as one's self.
But that would mean putting what God say as absolute, instead of what the culture says about woman. ( Just as an example, the culture tells woman today they must look 'hot' and beautiful.....God says we are to be modest, and with an inner beauty).
So a Biblical woman is going to be going against the culture is so many ways, having a quiet spirit instead of a I can do whatever I want, and beat any man, so I will be as loud, and as aggressive, demanding my 'rights' and so on.
She may in fact have a job at which with everything else in her life, it is done as if she were doing it for Jesus.
But mostly, she puts her relationship with God first ( Bible study, prayer, etc.)
then 'others' family: mother, father and brother and sisters ( if she has any), also her husband, and children if she is married.
She dresses modestly, clean and neat, but does not spend huge amounts of money on clothes, makeup, beauty supplies and gadgets, etc.
She is given to hospitality and when the Lord brings someone into her life who is not a believer, she gives them the gospel ( the truth) with love.
And she prays as much as possible and memorizes scripture.
3. What does your church teach about biblical womanhood- how a godly woman acts, talks, lives her life, etc.?
A)
I don't get to church that often, but so far, in this church I don't really recall any specific teaching about godly woman.
T
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Post by Cindy on Sept 21, 2018 12:02:04 GMT -5
As I said before, Some questions will ask about what your church says, so if you don't know, just talk about what you've learned about it before -either on your own, or through some other person.
By the way, the questions for #8 are further down the page....
I have an additional question from what you've already written.... You said that she would put God first and then others and you names who many of the others were. In a list of those "others" who would a godly woman put first, second, third, etc.? In other words, what order should they be in her mind and heart as her priority?
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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Post by fearnot on Sept 22, 2018 0:15:50 GMT -5
I forgot to mention that more than a sort of nebulous 'relationship' with Jesus, rather it is obedience to what He said.
The Godly woman is a slave to her Lord and Master, ( and Savior) instead of a slave to sin.
She was bought with a price ( Jesus's Crucifixion on the Cross).
She has given up and died to self ( it is her goal....she cannot do it perfectly).
He is her first priority.
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Post by Cindy on Sept 24, 2018 10:22:57 GMT -5
What happened to doing this study? I was going to post the next one, but will wait till you've done this first one.
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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Post by fearnot on Sept 24, 2018 13:52:02 GMT -5
4. What Scriptures come to mind when you think about biblical womanhood?
A)-
I guess most Christian woman would think of Proverbs 31, the Biblical stories of Ruth and Esther
5. Look up some of the Scriptures you listed in #4 and compare them to your character sketch from #2 and your answer to #3. How do they compare?
A)-
In Proverbs 30, the woman who fears the Lord, willingly does good for her husband, family and others.
I am not sure, but it seems like she ( the godly woman in Proverbs) may even have a 'business' and in that also she is diligently hard working ( not forced or grumbling but 'willingly')....
which I thinks kind of compares to what a wrote:
"She may in fact have a 'job'
at which, with everything else in her life, it is done as if she were doing it for Jesus".
Compared to Proverbs 31
v. 13 "She seeks wool and flax,
and works with willing hands.
16 She considers a field and buys it;
with the fruit of her hands she plants a vineyard.
24 She makes linen garments and sells them;
she delivers sashes to the merchant".
And also what I wrote about a godly woman thinking of others ( family, friends, strangers) also kind of
compares with the woman in Proverbs sort of:
20 "She opens her hand to the poor
and reaches out her hands to the needy".
27 "She looks well to the ways of her household
and does not eat the bread of idleness".
28 "Her children rise up and call her blessed;
her husband also, and he praises her":
Oh about the ordering or prioritizing I think it is always
God first
then, family ( if she is married)
husband first
then
their children ( I think many woman when they have babies, struggle not to put the baby always before husband)
Then extended family
( father, mother, sister, brothers, grandparents, aunts and uncles, cousins etc.)
then friends
then acquantances
then strangers
Then when I wrote this:
"So a Biblical woman is going to be going against the culture is so many ways, having a quiet spirit instead of a I can do whatever I want, and beat any man, so I will be as loud, and as aggressive, demanding my 'rights' and so on".
I think it kind of compares to the woman in Proverbs 32
25 "Strength and dignity are her clothing,
and she laughs at the time to come".
and finally the comparison of when I wrote this:
"She is given to hospitality and when the Lord brings someone into her life who is not a believer, she gives them the gospel ( the truth) with love.
And she prays as much as possible and memorizes scripture".
sort of with Proverbs 31
26 "She opens her mouth with wisdom,
and the teaching of kindness is on her tongue".
I believe the only real wisdom and kindness comes from studying scripture, God's word, the Bible.
I think all of these characteristics are found in both Ruth and Esther.
6. Why are you interested in a study of biblical womanhood, and what do you hope to get out of this study?
A)-
I have always been way to influenced by the world ( culture) as to what a woman should be, how she should look, act etc.
If there is any way, I can be of influence to my daughter, granddaughter ( other young girls or woman) in however long I have left of my life, that is one thing I would want to do for the glory of my Lord. I actually feel so sorry, that woman today are being so terribly influenced by the culture to be like streetwalkers, or like men etc. etc.
And even tho I am old now, I would like to continue to work towards being a godly woman, a good ambassador for Jesus, for His glory ( and not to bring shame to His name....well at least as much as I can possible do...because I am still a sinner....but it is a goal to continually work towards)
And probably this last verse in Proverbs sums it up for me.
"30 Charm is deceitful, and beauty is vain,
but a woman who fears the Lord is to be praised".
I clicked on the link to try and see all of #8
but it does not seem to work ...I mean it just 'seems' to go to the exact same thing???
I know it's me....not you sigh!
I am doing something wrong. arrgghh
I am not sure what the question is.....I 'think' I know what it is...like do I agree with that, or something like that if so why if not why????
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Post by Cindy on Sept 25, 2018 10:59:41 GMT -5
Here's the rest of 8 for you. I'll put the questions and things to do in red for you. I don't know why you can't see it. Also, I don't have time today to go over this, so will have to do so tomorrow. Sorry.
8. Some studies of “biblical” womanhood are the type that tell you how awesome you are, that “you’re enough” (whatever that means), that you can take charge of your life, girlfriend, and make all your dreams come true, and that you deserve to have the world at your feet.
This isn’t that kind of study.
Certainly, God is gracious, merciful, kind, comforting, and forgiving, and those wonderful attributes will be addressed as they come up in the texts we study. But becoming a godly woman also involves repenting from sin, obedience to Christ and His Word (even when we don’t feel like it), dying to self, and sometimes even suffering.
Are you prepared to have the Bible step on your toes? Are you committed to obeying Scripture out of love for Christ? Do you have the mindset that the Bible is your authority, not your own opinions, experiences, and feelings?
Take some time in prayer this week to begin preparing your heart for this study. If there’s a specific issue you struggle with regarding being a godly woman, ask God to open your eyes to the truth of His Word and strengthen you to obey Him in that area. I’m excited to have you join me in this journey of discovering what God’s Word has to say about living life as a godly, biblical woman!
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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Post by fearnot on Sept 25, 2018 12:38:58 GMT -5
Thank you for posting again the rest of #8
Are you prepared to have the Bible step on your toes?
Answer)
Yes. Actually the Bible has already stepped on the self-centered sinful, selfish 'me' a number of times, but strangely, I always feel waaaay better for it, maybe not right at first, but usually
I do because, I want to please Jesus ( not that I think He will love me more, but to love Him more).
Are you committed to obeying Scripture out of love for Christ?
A) Ha I sort of answered that above, yes, exactly!!
Do you have the mindset that the Bible is your authority, not your own opinions, experiences, and feelings?
A)
I do...
which is not to say, I haven't struggled with some 'issues' from time to time.
I think, maybe the thing I struggled with the most, is the eternal aspect of hell.
I do understand, that God is totally Holy and cannot live with sin, in eternity
and
People have chosen NOT to come to Jesus and be saved
and
they would actually hate Heaven ( if possible, maybe more than Hell as incomprehensible as that seems to me.....they rather their sins, then the eternal love of our Savior).
Also sin ever grows 9 I know this from experience.
So its not that I do not except the truth and Biblical authority of this ...I do
I just would that none were lost ( and even my Lord and God does...but many will not!)
But yes, the Bible IS my authority, it is absolute truth!!
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Post by Cindy on Sept 26, 2018 10:57:07 GMT -5
You've done well. Please try and get as much as you can out of this study, remembering that the questions aren't just normal questions to be answered by you, but are things you're to discuss with the Lord at length first and then answer. I'm afraid Bruce is still sick so I don't have time to discuss this yet but will add the next lesson for you. (the 3rd one won't be out till next week. I suggest you read through this entire post and then decide how you want to tackle it. You might want to just take one question/section of questions per day until you get to #6 and then divide that one in half, doing the first half (verses 3,4 & 5) on day 6 and the last half (verses 6,7, 8, & 9) on day 7. That's just a suggestion though; you should do it however you'd be comfortable with. Don't forget the homework and memory verse though as those are things to do every day!
Read Proverbs 31:1-31
Questions to Consider (note that there's sometimes more than one question in each paragraph.For example, #2 actually has 6 questions to talk to the Lord about.)
1. Choose one of the resources from my article Bible Book Backgrounds and familiarize yourself briefly with the book of Proverbs. What type of biblical literature is this book? Who is the author? At what time in history was this book written? What is the theme or purpose of this book? How does this book point us to Christ?
I'm guessing you'll want to use John MacArthur's but her link doesn't work, so I got it for you. You can continue to use this link for every book you study, which would be a good idea - so SAVE the link! Where it says "Change the book" it will be set on Genesis, but don't worry the link will actually take you to Proverbs, it just says Genesis as default until you change it. Don't forget to answer her questions once you pick your Bible book background!
www.gty.org/library/bible-introductions/MSB20/proverbs
2. Carefully examine Proverbs 31:1-2. Who is King Lemuel? Must we know his identity in order for the content of chapter 31 to make sense? Who originally gave the instructions and counsel in chapter 31? To whom did she give them? What area of Lemuel’s life did his mother advise him about in Proverbs 31:1-9? In Proverbs 31:10-31?
3. Notice that this is a woman admonishing a man. A man who was also the ______ as well as her ______. And this was at a time in history when women were not always highly regarded. Think about what that means in terms of having an official position of authority versus the power of influence. Do you have to occupy a high position in a job, your church, or your family in order to influence people?
4. What can you surmise about the character of Lemuel’s mother from reading Proverbs 31? How did her character impact her son/the king, and how did she steward her influence over him? If Lemuel heeded all of her advice in Proverbs 31, who else was she influencing through him? What might the results of heeding her advice have looked like if Lemuel’s mother had been a woman of ungodly character?
5. Think about your own character and those you influence. What are some specific ways your godly character has influenced others in the last month? Can you think of any specific times during the last month when you’ve exhibited ungodly character? How might that have influenced others? Take some time to thank God for any growth in Christlike character you’ve seen in your life. Repent of any sin that comes to mind – both to God and to anyone you’ve influenced in an ungodly way.
6. Look carefully at each of Lemuel’s mother’s admonitions in Proverbs 31:3-9. What is the broad, generally applicable to all people, biblical principle behind each of her instructions? What are some ways you can carry out these biblical principles in your family, church, job, and/or community? (I've re-written the questions for you after each of the verses she asks about so you won't get confused. I know you don't go to church regularly, but that doesn't mean you can't say how you could apply these verses to your church....)
Proverbs 31:3 - What is the broad, generally applicable to all people, biblical principle behind each of her instructions? What are some ways you can carry out these biblical principles in your family? What are some ways you can carry out these biblical principles in your church? What are some ways you can carry out these biblical principles in your community?
Proverbs 31:4–5 - What is the broad, generally applicable to all people, biblical principle behind each of her instructions? What are some ways you can carry out these biblical principles in your family? What are some ways you can carry out these biblical principles in your church? What are some ways you can carry out these biblical principles in your community?
Proverbs 31:6–7 - What is the broad, generally applicable to all people, biblical principle behind each of her instructions? What are some ways you can carry out these biblical principles in your family? What are some ways you can carry out these biblical principles in your church? What are some ways you can carry out these biblical principles in your community?
Proverbs 31:8–9 - What is the broad, generally applicable to all people, biblical principle behind each of her instructions? What are some ways you can carry out these biblical principles in your family? What are some ways you can carry out these biblical principles in your church? What are some ways you can carry out these biblical principles in your community?
Homework
Although Lemuel’s mother didn’t hold an official position of authority, she still had a powerful influence on the king (and her son, even if he hadn’t been king). Make a list of the five people you have the potential to influence the most. In what ways can your words and behavior influence them for the gospel and toward godliness? For the next week, commit to pray for these five people each day, asking God to help you to be a godly influence on them.
Suggested Memory Verse
Charm is deceitful, and beauty is vain, but a woman who fears the Lord is to be praised.
Proverbs 31:30
michellelesley.com/2018/09/19/imperishable-beauty-lesson-2/
Have fun!
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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Post by fearnot on Sept 26, 2018 13:39:12 GMT -5
I will also read MacArthur's for sure
but because the link wasn't working I read
Bible Book Overviews at Reformed Answers
Soooo now will read MacArthur's thank you.
I prob won't get to #1 until this afternoon at this rate....Just finished the Bible Book Overviews and it 11:36
have to wash my hair get dressed to hang out with Devon ( until his mom, (Hossanah) gets home at around 4
today ( and every Wed the kids get out early...thus not a lot of time left after reading MacArthur....unless it is way shorter than the one I just read LOL
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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Post by fearnot on Sept 26, 2018 15:56:08 GMT -5
Question #1)
What type of biblical literature is this book?
A)
Wisdom/poetry
Who is the author?
A) several authors....Solomon, Hezekiah, Agur, and Lemuel
( this makes me think that, Proverbs having more than one author,
is kind of in keeping with the Bible itself,
in that,
the Bible unlike any other book I know,
has about 40 authors,
over a long period of time,
and yet,
has one main basis subject ( God/Jesus/Holy Spirit).
How does this book point us to Christ?
A)
As MacArthur pointed out we can "compare Solomon's wisdom, to
the wisdom Christ personified",
the mind of God,
His attributes,
His Blessings,
righteous living,
teaching others,
servant's heart,
discernment,
being wise,
practical Godly living,
Priorities in life,
etc.
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Post by Cindy on Sept 27, 2018 10:44:39 GMT -5
I will also read MacArthur's for sure
but because the link wasn't working I read
Bible Book Overviews at Reformed Answers
Soooo now will read MacArthur's thank you.
I prob won't get to #1 until this afternoon at this rate....Just finished the Bible Book Overviews and it 11:36
have to wash my hair get dressed to hang out with Devon ( until his mom, (Hossanah) gets home at around 4
today ( and every Wed the kids get out early...thus not a lot of time left after reading MacArthur....unless it is way shorter than the one I just read LOL
In light of Revelation 1:5–6 and 5:10, which apply the role of “kings” to all who are redeemed, it becomes clear that the speech and actions of believers will effect a “rule” more often than we realize (or may even wish). As our words require close scrutiny and practical caution, our need for wisdom (the key word in Proverbs) becomes obvious. In view of this, the price of foolishness (Proverbs’ term to contrast with wisdom) is seen as destructive.
1. Two Companion Steps—The Pathway to Wisdom
Examine the occurrence of the words knowledge, instruction, and wisdom in the Proverbs. They are not synonyms. Each one is part of the process toward effective living and successful relationships. Note two steps in the process. The first is to see how knowledge (information acquired) and instruction (the explanation or meaning of acquired information) must be received. For this, a teachable, childlike heart is needed (2:1–5; 4:1–4). Second, we must see how we are to act with wisdom, for wisdom is neither information (knowledge) nor explanation (understanding). Wisdom is actuation—the proper application of what has been received. Wisdom also manifests itself in a way of action as well as in the act; wisdom acts in humility and righteousness, sensitivity and discretion.
2. Two Opposite Women—The Contrast between Wisdom and Folly
The adulteress warned against in Proverbs (see 6:20–7:27; 9:13–18) is discussed not simply to give moralistic advice. This matter is more than an indulgence in biological adultery, as wrong as that is. Inherent here is a warning against spending the seed of life God has put within us in unfaithful, squandering, or destructive ways (5:15–18). Here is a call to turn from a pointless exercise of our words, ways, or works to wisdom, personified as a woman whom we embrace and to whom we make a commitment (8:1–36; 9:1–6). She is the fountain of happiness, joy, and righteous fruitfulness.
3. Two Opposite Men—The Righteous and the Wicked
More than a dozen traits of “the righteous” are declared, with certain blessings attending to each (“mouth,” 10:11; “desire,” 10:24; “hope,” 10:28; “posterity,” 11:21, and so forth). The righteous is “wise,” but the wicked is “a fool.” The fool in Proverbs is not necessarily without knowledge, so this term is not intended as an insult. Rather, the fool is without reverence for God or His ways, and thus demonstrates emptiness of wisdom. Hayford’s Bible handbook
Personal Application. The wisdom contained in the Book of Proverbs is as meaningful today as when it was written. Yet it is neither a prosperity pamphlet nor a “how to succeed” handbook in the worldly sense. Rather, it tells how to order one’s values, which leads to character, which leads to wholeness, which leads to satisfaction. It warns of the pitfalls along the way and declares the folly of not developing the fear of the Lord. Because the thirty-one-chapter book contains so much that is worth daily meditation and is relevant for every era, many Bible readers have found it desirable to read a chapter a day, thus covering the entire book every month.
Hayford’s Bible handbook.
Question #1)
What type of biblical literature is this book?
A)
Wisdom/poetry
Who is the author?
A) several authors....Solomon, Hezekiah, Agur, and Lemuel
( this makes me think that, Proverbs having more than one author,
is kind of in keeping with the Bible itself,
in that,
the Bible unlike any other book I know,
has about 40 authors,
over a long period of time,
and yet,
has one main basis subject ( God/Jesus/Holy Spirit).
How does this book point us to Christ?
A)
As MacArthur pointed out we can "compare Solomon's wisdom, to
the wisdom Christ personified",
the mind of God,
His attributes,
His Blessings,
righteous living,
teaching others,
servant's heart,
discernment,
being wise,
practical Godly living,
Priorities in life,
etc.
1. Choose one of the resources from my article Bible Book Backgrounds and familiarize yourself briefly with the book of Proverbs. What type of biblical literature is this book? Who is the author? At what time in history was this book written? What is the theme or purpose of this book? How does this book point us to Christ?About the Author, let me share what MacArthur says. (I've checked 3 other books and all agree with MacArthur):
Proverbs: Created and compiled by Solomon and other authors from approximately 971 to 686 B.C. The phrase “Proverbs of Solomon” is more a title than an absolute statement of authorship (1:1). While King Solomon, who ruled Israel from 971–931 B.C. and was granted great wisdom by God (see 1 Kin. 4:29–34), is the author of the didactic section (Proverbs 1:1–9:18) and the proverbs of Proverbs 10:1–22:16, he is likely only the compiler of the “sayings of the wise” in 22:17–24:34, which are of an uncertain date before Solomon’s reign. The collection in Proverbs 25:1–29:27 was originally composed by Solomon (25:1) but copied and included later by Judah’s king Hezekiah (ca. 715–686 B.C.). Proverbs 30 reflects the words of Agur and Proverbs 31 the words of Lemuel, who perhaps was Solomon. Proverbs was not assembled in its final form until Hezekiah’s day or after. Solomon authored his proverbs before his heart was turned away from God (1 Kin. 11:1–11), since the book reveals a godly perspective and is addressed to the “naive” and “young” who need to learn the fear of God. Solomon also wrote Psalms 72 and 127, Ecclesiastes, and Song of Solomon. The MacArthur Bible handbook
Solomon—king of Israel, granted great wisdom from God (1 Kin. 4:29–34)
Agur—son of Jakeh, an unknown sage (Prov. 30:1)
Lemuel—king whose mother’s teachings are included (Prov. 31); ancient Jewish tradition identifies him as Solomon, but otherwise unknown The MacArthur Bible handbook
So Hezekiah didn't write that part, he just copied it from Solomon's writings and included it in the book. The last two chapters were written by Agur and Lemuel, but Lemuel may actually have been another name for Solomon. So pretty much this was written by Solomon and one chapter by Agur, with the possibility that Lemuel may have written the last chapter if he wasn't Solomon.
CHRIST IN … PROVERBS
THE WRITERS OF PROVERBS desired that believers not only listen to the truth but apply this wisdom to their own lives. Proverbs calls for wisdom to become incarnate (chapt. 8), and indeed it did when “all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge” became flesh in Christ (Col. 2:3). While the OT readers of Proverbs were guided by wisdom through the written word, the NT believers came to know the Word of God in human form. Therefore, Christ not only encompasses Proverbs but also actually “became for us wisdom from God” (1 Cor. 1:30). The MacArthur Bible handbook
The Book of Proverbs belongs to what scholars call the “wisdom literature” of the Old Testament, which also includes Job and Ecclesiastes. There are also “wisdom Psalms”: Psalm 1, Psalm 19, Psalm 32, Psalm 34, Psalm 37, Psalm 49, Psalm 73, Psalm 78, Psalm 112, Psalm 119, Psalm 127–128, Psalm 133. The writers of these books wrestled with some of the most difficult questions of life as they sought to understand life’s problems from God’s point of view. After all, just because you’re a believer and you walk by faith, it doesn’t mean you put your mind on the shelf and stop thinking. The Lord expects us to apply ourselves intellectually and do some serious thinking as we study His Word. We should love the Lord with our minds as well as with our hearts and souls (Matt. 22:37).
To the ancient Jew, wisdom was much more than simply good advice or successful planning. I like Dr. Roy Zuck’s definition: “Wisdom means being skillful and successful in one’s relationships and responsibilities … observing and following the Creator’s principles of order in the moral universe.” In that definition you find most of the important elements of biblical wisdom, the kind of wisdom we can learn from the Book of Proverbs.
Biblical wisdom begins with a right relationship with the Lord. The wise person believes that there is a God, that He is the Creator and Ruler of all things, and that He has put within His creation a divine order that, if obeyed, leads ultimately to success. Wise people also assert that there is a moral law operating in this world, a principle of divine justice which makes sure that eventually the wicked are judged and the righteous are rewarded. Biblical wisdom has little if any relationship to a person’s IQ or education, because it is a matter of moral and spiritual understanding. It has to do with character and values; it means looking at the world through the grid of God’s truth.
In the Old Testament, the Hebrew word for “wise” (hakam) is used to describe people skillful in working with their hands, such as the artisans who helped build the tabernacle (Ex. 28:3; 35:30–36:2) and Solomon’s temple (1 Chron. 22:15). Wisdom isn’t something theoretical, it’s something very practical that affects every area of life. It gives order and purpose to life; it gives discernment in making decisions; and it provides a sense of fulfillment in life to the glory of God.
Wisdom keeps us in harmony with the principles and purposes that the Lord has built into His world so that as we obey God, everything works for us and not against us. This doesn’t mean we don’t experience trials and difficulties, because trials and difficulties are a normal part of life. But it means we have the ability to deal with these adversities successfully so that we grow spiritually and the Lord is glorified.
People with wisdom have the skill to face life honestly and courageously, and to manage it successfully so that God’s purposes are fulfilled in their lives.
The Book of Proverbs is quoted in the New Testament4 and therefore has a practical application to the lives of believers today.
According to 2 Timothy 3:16–17, “All Scripture is … profitable” in four ways: for doctrine—that’s what’s right; for reproof—that’s what’s not right; for correction—that’s how to get right; and for instruction in righteousness—that’s how to stay right. You will find all four of these purposes fulfilled in the Book of Proverbs. These inspired sayings teach us about God, man, sin, creation, and a host of other doctrinal topics. These proverbs rebuke and reprove sinners for their lying, laziness, drunkenness, sexual sins, and other personal failures. But Proverbs doesn’t stop with conviction; the book also administers correction, telling us how to turn from sin and mend our ways. It shows us how to stay on the path of wisdom and not stray again.
Wisdom isn’t some abstract treasure that’s so far away we can’t grasp it. Through His Word and by His Spirit, God is every day calling us to the life of wisdom. If we want to live wisely, we must begin with commitment to Jesus Christ, who is “the wisdom of God” (1 Cor. 1:30). Wisdom and Folly each want to control our lives, and we must make the choice.
After we have committed ourselves to the Lord and His wisdom, we must recognize that there are consequences to the decisions we make. The proverbs in chapters 10–15 depict so vividly the contrasts that exist between the life of wisdom and the life of folly, between faith and unbelief, obedience and disobedience. We can’t compromise and expect God to bless. The final section of the book (chaps. 16–31) contains the further counsels we need for developing spiritual discernment and making wise decisions.
Wiersbe, W. W. (1996). Be Skillful. “Be” Commentary Series
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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Post by fearnot on Sept 27, 2018 12:11:27 GMT -5
Thank you for correcting about Hezekiah only coping, not writing.
And for all the other great info!!
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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Post by fearnot on Sept 27, 2018 14:18:01 GMT -5
Sorry, I forgot to write out question #1
So here is question #2
2. Carefully examine Proverbs 31:1-2. Who is King Lemuel?
Must we know his identity in order for the content of chapter 31 to make sense?
Who originally gave the instructions and counsel in chapter 31?
To whom did she give them?
What area of Lemuel’s life did his mother advise him about in Proverbs 31:1-9? In Proverbs 31:10-31?
A)
As far as I can tell, no knows for 100% certain who King Lemuel was. Some think it was King Solomon ( and maybe Lemuel was a nickname), or even Hezekiah, or, a student etc.
However, we don't need to know the human name, because being inspired scripture God is the actual author.
But as far as a human source, we do know that instructions and counsel came from Lemuel's mother.
In Proverbs 31:1-9
the instructions are concerning sexual immorality ( I have to wonder tho, if it were Solomon who was King Lemuel, why he departed from this:
Proverbs 3 :3 "Do not give your strength to women,
your ways to those who destroy king".)
The counsel was also against being drunk, and not being able to judge correctly, but rather remain sober and judge righteously.
Then from v. 10-31 is about a godly virtuous woman.
One of the 1st things mentioned is she is trustworthy.
( we can trust our Lord Jesus even more!! and all the advise given is excellent for any woman, or man even....and Jesus was perfect in it all.)
Another thing is she is not lazy and willing works for those of her family. She is not slothfulness and diligent.
She is a true helpmate to her husband.
She does things orderly.
People who do not believe often say the Bible treats woman terribly, but here is a woman who even has her own business and buys property!!
She takes care of herself so she is able to take care of others.
she is also kind and compassionate to others who are poor, homeless, sick etc.
She is modest and clothes herself and others so they are also.
She makes sure they are warm in the winter also.
Today we can't get away from the world's ideal of 'beauty', which focuses only on the body/face and sexiness and not the character of women.
Physical beauty will fade and soon be gone and then what will a woman who depended only on their looks do? Vanity and pride of beauty will fall, often sooner than later.
The woman of today who shakes her bottom for all to see as she 'twerks' on a music video dressed in almost nothing at all, is hardly the dignified woman of Proverbs 31!!
But a woman of godly character will be blessed in this life and the next.
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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Post by fearnot on Sept 28, 2018 14:53:06 GMT -5
Question #3.
Notice that this is a woman admonishing a man. A man who was also the ______ as well as her ______. And this was at a time in history when women were not always highly regarded. Think about what that means in terms of having an official position of authority versus the power of influence. Do you have to occupy a high position in a job, your church, or your family in order to influence people?
A)The man being admonished by a woman, was a king and also he son. I think it is easy to not realize how much power we have as mothers, wives, friends etc by the power of influence. So often it is easy to get caught up in thinking only those occupying a high position in politics, a job, etc. has all the power....but in fact, words, ideas, behavior etc. actually may in the end have more power.
One could be a janitor and actually influence a CEO,
or
a mother who influences the son who is a king or president.
So no, a person does not necessarily need to be in a high position to have influence, all people have a mom, and mom's have way more influence ( be it positive or negative) that they may know.
Question 4. What can you surmise about the character of Lemuel’s mother from reading Proverbs 31?
How did her character impact her son/the king, and how did she steward her influence over him?
If Lemuel heeded all of her advice in Proverbs 31, who else was she influencing through him? What might the results of heeding her advice have looked like if Lemuel’s mother had been a woman of ungodly character?
A)
This is a woman of great integrity, compassion, trustworthy, virtuous, loves God and others), truthfulness, honor, has sound principles for life and living, industrious, modest, humble, wise etc.
She spoke honestly and directly with love to King Lemuel.
It is difficult to say exactly how her character impacted her son/the king, since it is not certain if it was Solomon or a different King.
If it was Solomon, her wisdom and advise had great impact on his life.....
but later on in his life...
he choose,
for whatever reason,
to ignore just this one aspect.....
"3 Do not give your strength to women,
your ways to those who destroy kings.",
and it lead him to ruin.
but as to how did she steward her influence over him,
she first of all, of course, by being a good mother and wife, saw that he was well cared for ( feed, clothed etc.)
but more important than that
she gave him 'godly' advise.
By influencing Lemuel, it would affect his family, people in his court, his subjects etc.
But if Lemuel's mother had been ungodly that influence could have been disastrous in sooooo many ways.
Today's culture, so denigrates motherhood as a type of slavery with no power or influence in the world, being blind to exactly how much power thru influence it really has for either good or bad.
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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Post by fearnot on Sept 29, 2018 13:31:49 GMT -5
Question 5. Think about your own character and those you influence. What are some specific ways your godly character has influenced others in the last month?
A) this is a really hard question for me to answer honestly, because, I cannot be certain as to exactly what any influence I might have had, actually really influenced anyone.
I guess, I would say, reading and talking to my grandchildren.
I spend more time talking to my grandson as granddaughter who is on last year of HS is super busy ( she also works after school, and goes to games, has friends and a boyfriend etc.)
nevertheless, I actually talked to her yesterday ( we were talking about grandson's 'girlfriend or girl friend).
I spent a lot of time talking about how dating and have a boyfriend or girlfriend at younger and younger ages, actually is a bad thing that teaches young people to get harder hearts as they often breakup fine a new boyfriend/girlfriend, and that hardens they heart more and more each time, and makes divorce easier when a person feels their spouse no longer meets their needs....and then into biblical sacrificial love as opposed to what the world considers love to be etc.....but I never can say if these 'chats' have much effect for sure or not.
I suppose the fact this Sunday Leonard and I will have been married 46 years might also be an influence?
Question: Can you think of any specific times during the last month when you’ve exhibited ungodly character?
A) Waaaaaaay more than I would ever want....if I could, I would love to be able to say, no....but alas not even close.
question: How might that have influenced others?
A) In a very bad way. They probably or might think, so why be a Christian? When so and so, gossips, gets angry, is lazy, grumbles, etc etc. so what good is being a Christian anyway.
Where is this great love they 'talk' about???
Take some time to thank God for any growth in Christlike character you’ve seen in your life. Repent of any sin that comes to mind – both to God and to anyone you’ve influenced in an ungodly way.
A) I will because even tho I still sin, God has indeed, effected a lot of growth from where I was!!!!
I have been praying and working on repenting for gossip for a long time....I do see progress ( it seems like some sins are harder to repent of?)
I now often catch myself in the middle....whereas there was a time, it would not even cross my mind in the least.
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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Post by fearnot on Sept 30, 2018 16:28:53 GMT -5
What is the broad, generally applicable to all people, biblical principle behind each of her instructions?
What are some ways you can carry out these biblical principles in your family?
What are some ways you can carry out these biblical principles in your church?
What are some ways you can carry out these biblical principles in your community?
3 Do not give your strength to women,
your ways to those who destroy kings.
A) I think the Biblical principle is that ( except for those who are not to marry) people are to have one husband and one wife. And to guard against adultery etc. flirting or spending time alone with someone for any length of time, who is not your spouse, is to be avoided.
If this were to be followed in the secular community, a great deal of heartache ( to men, woman and children), sexual disease, etc. would be very greatly reduced.
In the family one would stay married in sickness and in health, good times and bad, etc.
Also one would be careful not to be flirty with those that are not your mate, even not to be commenting how how pretty or handsome some celebrity is etc.
In the church it would be similar but perhaps even more care should be taken, because, you might think, you are 'safe' to be with someone of the opposite sex because they have exactly the same values, but that too would be sending the wrong message.
And since the world is watching Christians the same cation of flirting with someone with or without your mate is to be avoided.
4 It is not for kings, O Lemuel,
it is not for kings to drink wine,
or for rulers to take strong drink.
5 lest they drink and forget what has been decreed
and pervert the rights of all the afflicted.
A) I suppose this is a bit trickier, because some Christians feel it would be legalistic and maybe untrue to say that people should not drink alcohol at all unless as a type of medicinal usage. In any case, I do think one ought to take great care...( I personally gave it up almost 50 years ago).
It seems like some people can just have one glass of wine or a beer and never really go over that, others might be able to but slowly on, almost without realizing it, find themselves an alcoholic.
And for sure, many car accidents ( and other types of accidents on the job etc., perhaps abuses when drunk be it sexual, physical like fighting and so on.....can and do happen when people have had too much to drink).
We stopped having any alcohol in our home ( maybe once or twice Leonard had a beer in the fridge, )
quite a loooong time) ago.....
however, both Hossanah and Michael drink.
Still, it might have an impact even later on in their life if they decide they want to quit entirely.
For me, I also think it important that I do not drink ( and certainly am never drunk) at a church picnic or supper.
Nor out in public.
6 Give strong drink to the one who is perishing,
and wine to those in bitter distress;
7 let them drink and forget their poverty
and remember their misery no more.
A) this seems to me like it to indicate that, at least it might be ok, for one to drink as a medicine, sort of,
if one is dying, or in such poverty they need to relax.
8 Open your mouth for the mute,
for the rights of all who are destitute.
9 Open your mouth, judge righteously,
defend the rights of the poor and needy.
A)
The biblical principal I would say is to love others as unto the Lord and as yourself.
If this were done in abroad general way, there would not be homeless people ( unless they were camping as a joy etc.)
In a family if a relative etc is going thru hard times, etc. and there is anyway to help financially, or with your time etc.
In the church giving to support the pastor and missionaries
and in also in the community.....
none of this should be done to gain attention to oneself ( in fact if it can be anonymous all the better.
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Post by Cindy on Oct 1, 2018 11:24:51 GMT -5
Thank you for correcting about Hezekiah only coping, not writing.
And for all the other great info!! Sorry, I forgot to write out question #1
So here is question #2
2. Carefully examine Proverbs 31:1-2. Who is King Lemuel?
Must we know his identity in order for the content of chapter 31 to make sense?
Who originally gave the instructions and counsel in chapter 31?
To whom did she give them?
What area of Lemuel’s life did his mother advise him about in Proverbs 31:1-9? In Proverbs 31:10-31?
A)
As far as I can tell, no knows for 100% certain who King Lemuel was. Some think it was King Solomon ( and maybe Lemuel was a nickname), or even Hezekiah, or, a student etc.
However, we don't need to know the human name, because being inspired scripture God is the actual author.
But as far as a human source, we do know that instructions and counsel came from Lemuel's mother.
In Proverbs 31:1-9
the instructions are concerning sexual immorality ( I have to wonder tho, if it were Solomon who was King Lemuel, why he departed from this:
Proverbs 3 :3 "Do not give your strength to women,
your ways to those who destroy king".)
The counsel was also against being drunk, and not being able to judge correctly, but rather remain sober and judge righteously.
Then from v. 10-31 is about a godly virtuous woman.
One of the 1st things mentioned is she is trustworthy.
( we can trust our Lord Jesus even more!! and all the advise given is excellent for any woman, or man even....and Jesus was perfect in it all.)
Another thing is she is not lazy and willing works for those of her family. She is not slothfulness and diligent.
She is a true helpmate to her husband.
She does things orderly.
People who do not believe often say the Bible treats woman terribly, but here is a woman who even has her own business and buys property!!
She takes care of herself so she is able to take care of others.
she is also kind and compassionate to others who are poor, homeless, sick etc.
She is modest and clothes herself and others so they are also.
She makes sure they are warm in the winter also.
Today we can't get away from the world's ideal of 'beauty', which focuses only on the body/face and sexiness and not the character of women.
Physical beauty will fade and soon be gone and then what will a woman who depended only on their looks do? Vanity and pride of beauty will fall, often sooner than later.
The woman of today who shakes her bottom for all to see as she 'twerks' on a music video dressed in almost nothing at all, is hardly the dignified woman of Proverbs 31!!
But a woman of godly character will be blessed in this life and the next.
Very good! But aren't you going to answer the questions in #1 that you missed? I wanted to mention something about a gentle spirit today due to remembering something you said last time. I saw this and thought it was a good scripture about it:
“Let your gentleness be evident to all. The Lord is near. Do not be anxious about anything, but in everything, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God. And the peace of God, which transcends all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.” (Phil 4:5–7) I tend to notice any scripture about gentleness since that's something I'm working on with the Lord ... or He's working on in me.  I thought it was kind of neat that gentleness was linked with not being anxious, and with God's peace guarding our hearts and minds in Christ. So to me it's saying that knowing the Lord is near is part of gentleness, and knowing He's near us, stops us from worry. I like what MacArthur explains about "gentleness": The word translated,“gentleness” has diverse meanings in the original language. It speaks of contentment, forbearing, generosity, & goodwill toward others; mercy or leniency toward the faults or failures of others; it describes patience, referring to someone who submits to injustice or mistreatment but doesn’t retaliate with hatred or bitterness. The best translation is “graciousness,”because in the Christian sense that word embodies all those meanings. It also includes the important element of humility. The humble Christian doesn’t hold a grudge but trusts God whenever he is mistreated, misjudged, or misrepresented. A person like that doesn’t demand his rights. Humility & graciousness will help you be stable in spite of the circumstances. Truth for today
Question #3.
Notice that this is a woman admonishing a man. A man who was also the ______ as well as her ______. And this was at a time in history when women were not always highly regarded. Think about what that means in terms of having an official position of authority versus the power of influence. Do you have to occupy a high position in a job, your church, or your family in order to influence people?
A)The man being admonished by a woman, was a king and also he son. I think it is easy to not realize how much power we have as mothers, wives, friends etc by the power of influence. So often it is easy to get caught up in thinking only those occupying a high position in politics, a job, etc. has all the power....but in fact, words, ideas, behavior etc. actually may in the end have more power.
One could be a janitor and actually influence a CEO,
or
a mother who influences the son who is a king or president.
So no, a person does not necessarily need to be in a high position to have influence, all people have a mom, and mom's have way more influence ( be it positive or negative) that they may know.
Question 4. What can you surmise about the character of Lemuel’s mother from reading Proverbs 31?
How did her character impact her son/the king, and how did she steward her influence over him?
If Lemuel heeded all of her advice in Proverbs 31, who else was she influencing through him? What might the results of heeding her advice have looked like if Lemuel’s mother had been a woman of ungodly character?
A)
This is a woman of great integrity, compassion, trustworthy, virtuous, loves God and others), truthfulness, honor, has sound principles for life and living, industrious, modest, humble, wise etc.
She spoke honestly and directly with love to King Lemuel.
It is difficult to say exactly how her character impacted her son/the king, since it is not certain if it was Solomon or a different King.
If it was Solomon, her wisdom and advise had great impact on his life.....
but later on in his life...
he choose,
for whatever reason,
to ignore just this one aspect.....
"3 Do not give your strength to women,
your ways to those who destroy kings.",
and it lead him to ruin.
but as to how did she steward her influence over him,
she first of all, of course, by being a good mother and wife, saw that he was well cared for ( feed, clothed etc.)
but more important than that
she gave him 'godly' advise.
By influencing Lemuel, it would affect his family, people in his court, his subjects etc.
But if Lemuel's mother had been ungodly that influence could have been disastrous in sooooo many ways.
Today's culture, so denigrates motherhood as a type of slavery with no power or influence in the world, being blind to exactly how much power thru influence it really has for either good or bad.
It's always amazed me that any woman who was a mother, or who wanted to be one, would want to work outside her home, because I've always known that being a mother was the most powerful position in the entire world. It's more powerful than being a King or President or a spouse or a friend or anything else, because it's the only position that allows a person to help form another human being who could possibly be a King or President one day; and even if they're not, they will still be part of the next generation to have a say in what happens in our country. I even wrote an article about that back when Jennifer was a toddler. it was published in a couple of magazines and I even got paid for it. (as well as for a number of other ones)
I agree that we don't have to occupy a high position at church or in our family or community to be an influence on others. We actually don't have to have any position at all in the community to do that, other than being alive anyway. In our family, we have the highest position, that of mothers and and also that of a wife. As a wife we can also influence our husband!
As far as how his mother's character influenced him, I think you missed one thing. You were looking more at who "he" was, but if you forget about that for a minute, the fact that he remembered what his mother told him, shows that her character influenced him a great deal. (the very first verse says that his mother taught this to him) While Solomon did backslide, honestly, who hasn't? Even his father David did so, and David obviously wasn't a very good father to his children, but at least he had his mother. And in the long run, he did come back to God and what his mother taught him, which also shows how great it's effect on him was.
As to stewarding her influence over him goes, I think she did so by being consistent and living what she said every day, so he daily got to see her advice in action and how it affected others. Plus I'm sure he also saw the opposite in other people too.
Yes, by influencing her son, it affected every single person in the Kingdom! And if she'd been ungodly as you said, it would have been awful because all the people in the kingdom would have suffered for it. (and they did so every time an ungodly king ruled)
Question 5. Think about your own character and those you influence. What are some specific ways your godly character has influenced others in the last month?
A) this is a really hard question for me to answer honestly, because, I cannot be certain as to exactly what any influence I might have had, actually really influenced anyone.
I guess, I would say, reading and talking to my grandchildren.
I spend more time talking to my grandson as granddaughter who is on last year of HS is super busy ( she also works after school, and goes to games, has friends and a boyfriend etc.)
nevertheless, I actually talked to her yesterday ( we were talking about grandson's 'girlfriend or girl friend).
I spent a lot of time talking about how dating and have a boyfriend or girlfriend at younger and younger ages, actually is a bad thing that teaches young people to get harder hearts as they often breakup fine a new boyfriend/girlfriend, and that hardens they heart more and more each time, and makes divorce easier when a person feels their spouse no longer meets their needs....and then into biblical sacrificial love as opposed to what the world considers love to be etc.....but I never can say if these 'chats' have much effect for sure or not.
I suppose the fact this Sunday Leonard and I will have been married 46 years might also be an influence?
Question: Can you think of any specific times during the last month when you’ve exhibited ungodly character?
A) Waaaaaaay more than I would ever want....if I could, I would love to be able to say, no....but alas not even close.
question: How might that have influenced others?
A) In a very bad way. They probably or might think, so why be a Christian? When so and so, gossips, gets angry, is lazy, grumbles, etc etc. so what good is being a Christian anyway.
Where is this great love they 'talk' about???
Take some time to thank God for any growth in Christlike character you’ve seen in your life. Repent of any sin that comes to mind – both to God and to anyone you’ve influenced in an ungodly way.
A) I will because even tho I still sin, God has indeed, effected a lot of growth from where I was!!!!
I have been praying and working on repenting for gossip for a long time....I do see progress ( it seems like some sins are harder to repent of?)
I now often catch myself in the middle....whereas there was a time, it would not even cross my mind in the least.
Question: Can you think of any specific times during the last month when you’ve exhibited ungodly character?
She wants us to tell of what ways we did so, so that we can be aware of them, repent and try not to do them again. It looks like you're saying that your main sin was gossiping, right? Let me just point out something to you that might help. You can't "work on" repenting. We either repent or we don't. When we repent, that doesn't mean we won't fall back into the same sin again, it means when we do fall back into it, we repent again and as soon as we catch ourselves we stop, take our thoughts captive and replace them. Let me share something else that may help. When you start to gossip and catch yourself, then you need to either immediately tell the people you are gossiping with that you have just realized what you've been doing and feel badly about it because you know that God says we're not to gossip, and then ask them to forgive you. I've found that helps stop me even in the future from doing it because doing that is embarrassing! Also, if you realize you were gossiping after you leave the people you were talking to, then call them or go back to them and tell them what I said above. That way you hold yourself accountable no matter when you realize you were gossiping. Also this may be showing you that you need to pay more attention to your thoughts.
When you do tell people you were gossiping etc. you need to be aware of what they will most likely say. Most of them will be astounded by it, and will tell you there's nothing to forgive, you don't need to worry about it etc. If they're unbelievers, you don't need to explain anything to them, just thank them and move on. Same thing if you have to do it again. Another Christian may be convicted by what you say, and that's a good thing, but they may also be embarrassed and try to convince you that you weren't gossiping, because they don't want to think they were. You and God know whether you were or not, so listen to God not them. The best way to handle that I think would be to just say something like, "thanks for sharing that, but the Lord has convicted me and I needed to do what I felt was best, so I hope you'll forgive me" and then say good bye.
If after some time, you find you have to continually ask the same people to forgive you etc then that may be telling you that you need to stop hanging around those people and talking to them. Or at the least you may have to simply keep your mouth shut whenever you are around them. I've had to do that. Knowing that they would ask me eventually to agree with them, I always tried to come up with something positive to say about the person they were talking about so I wouldn't be gossiping but could answer them.
What is the broad, generally applicable to all people, biblical principle behind each of her instructions?
What are some ways you can carry out these biblical principles in your family?
What are some ways you can carry out these biblical principles in your church?
What are some ways you can carry out these biblical principles in your community?
3 Do not give your strength to women,
your ways to those who destroy kings.
A) I think the Biblical principle is that ( except for those who are not to marry) people are to have one husband and one wife. And to guard against adultery etc. flirting or spending time alone with someone for any length of time, who is not your spouse, is to be avoided.
If this were to be followed in the secular community, a great deal of heartache ( to men, woman and children), sexual disease, etc. would be very greatly reduced.
In the family one would stay married in sickness and in health, good times and bad, etc.
Also one would be careful not to be flirty with those that are not your mate, even not to be commenting how how pretty or handsome some celebrity is etc.
In the church it would be similar but perhaps even more care should be taken, because, you might think, you are 'safe' to be with someone of the opposite sex because they have exactly the same values, but that too would be sending the wrong message.
And since the world is watching Christians the same cation of flirting with someone with or without your mate is to be avoided.
4 It is not for kings, O Lemuel,
it is not for kings to drink wine,
or for rulers to take strong drink.
5 lest they drink and forget what has been decreed
and pervert the rights of all the afflicted.
A) I suppose this is a bit trickier, because some Christians feel it would be legalistic and maybe untrue to say that people should not drink alcohol at all unless as a type of medicinal usage. In any case, I do think one ought to take great care...( I personally gave it up almost 50 years ago).
It seems like some people can just have one glass of wine or a beer and never really go over that, others might be able to but slowly on, almost without realizing it, find themselves an alcoholic.
And for sure, many car accidents ( and other types of accidents on the job etc., perhaps abuses when drunk be it sexual, physical like fighting and so on.....can and do happen when people have had too much to drink).
We stopped having any alcohol in our home ( maybe once or twice Leonard had a beer in the fridge, )
quite a loooong time) ago.....
however, both Hossanah and Michael drink.
Still, it might have an impact even later on in their life if they decide they want to quit entirely.
For me, I also think it important that I do not drink ( and certainly am never drunk) at a church picnic or supper.
Nor out in public.
6 Give strong drink to the one who is perishing,
and wine to those in bitter distress;
7 let them drink and forget their poverty
and remember their misery no more.
A) this seems to me like it to indicate that, at least it might be ok, for one to drink as a medicine, sort of,
if one is dying, or in such poverty they need to relax.
8 Open your mouth for the mute,
for the rights of all who are destitute.
9 Open your mouth, judge righteously,
defend the rights of the poor and needy.
A)
The biblical principal I would say is to love others as unto the Lord and as yourself.
If this were done in abroad general way, there would not be homeless people ( unless they were camping as a joy etc.)
In a family if a relative etc is going thru hard times, etc. and there is anyway to help financially, or with your time etc.
In the church giving to support the pastor and missionaries
and in also in the community.....
none of this should be done to gain attention to oneself ( in fact if it can be anonymous all the better.
Proverbs 31:6–7. Beer (“strong drink”; cf. comments on 20:1) and wine (mentioned in reverse order from the way they are mentioned in 31:4) may have been acceptable as anesthetics or drugs to deaden physical pain or deep emotional bitterness (and the pain of those who were dying). Or verses 6-7 may be saying that though others may have used drink as an escape, the king was not to do so. The Bible Knowledge Commentary
Proverbs 31:5–7. The drinking of wine will lead to the perversion of justice (Isa 5:22, 23). Wine should only be given to him that is ready to perish, for this represents an advantageous use of God’s gift. (cf. I Tim 5:23). The pious women of Jerusalem used to offer wine to those condemned to crucifixion in order to deaden their misery. This was offered to the Lord Jesus (Mt 27:34), but he refused it; for He wished to keep His mind clear to the last as He took upon himself the sins of all mankind. KJV Bible Commentary.
Give strong drink. Such extreme situations, possibly relating to a criminal on death row or someone agonizing in pain with a terminal illness or tragic circumstance, are in utter contrast to that of the king (cf. Ps 104:15). The MacArthur study Bible
““Speak up for those who cannot speak for themselves, for the rights of all who are destitute. Speak up and judge fairly; defend the rights of the poor and needy.”” (Proverbs 31:8–9)
What you said about love is true, we should always do that, but God has said all through His Word that we are to defend those who can't defend themselves, especially the widow, the aliens, the poor, etc.
The king should be active in matters of justice. He should speak for the “dumb,” i.e., the person who for any reason is unable to plead his own cause. Such people are described as “those appointed to destruction,” lit., the sons of passing away. The reference is to any who might be in imminent danger of perishing if left unaided. By so doing he will be fulfilling his responsibility to minister justice to the poor and needy. The wisdom literature and Psalms.
Plead for those who cannot plead for themselves, as the orphan, stranger, &c. (compare Ps 72:12; Is 1:17). Commentary Critical and Explanatory
“learn to do right! Seek justice, encourage the oppressed. Defend the cause of the fatherless, plead the case of the widow.” (Isaiah 1:17)
(Isaiah 1:23; Deut 10:17-18; Deut 14:29; Deut 24:17-21; Deut 26:12-13; Deut 27:19; James 1:27)
Don't forget to check the ones you forgot on question #1. You're doing great!
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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Post by fearnot on Oct 1, 2018 14:09:41 GMT -5
I think at one time we went over what is 'gossip', exactly.
it gets hazy for me, in a couple of ways...
sometimes, when just telling someone else a story ( it might be funny or for a point etc.)
but it is not told to make the person look bad, or me look better ( at least, that was not my conscious intention.....
but then...
often,
as the story goes on,
and later as I reflect on it ,
I can see that maybe, one or the other happened.... or both.
I was talking to Brian's daughter yesterday for example
and I was trying to make a point about being frugal ( because of what had been said previously)
and told a story.....that when my granddaughter first starting buying clothes herself she would buy popular name brands at full price and for a couple hundred dollars only get 2 pieces of clothing.
I went on to say that thrift stores often have clothing (popular brand names even) that have never been worn and you can telling because all the price tags have never been removed.
and so now, when,
Vanessa shops she usually goes to thrift stores and buys all kinds of cute clothes and for the same amount of money now will get 20 or 30 pieces of clothing. ( which was a kind of compliment about Vanessa in my mind....but I doubt it came out that way).
because, in telling this story,
looking back at my story,
it made Vanessa seem sort of ditsy at first and me ever so wise.....
which seems like I crossed the line into 'gossip'.
But to add insult to injury, I added that Vanessa now is only spendy on prom dresses, that are only worn once, and sort of rolled my eyes.
My intention initially was a talk on being thrifty....and I was using Vanessa as an example.....but I am thinking now, I could have just said instead:
That a person could buy popular brand names full price and get very little clothing for their money or they could look for sales, or even thrift stores which often have clothes never worn...etc.
I also used Devon as an example of why watching scary vampire etc. programs can lead to nightmares....but again, it put him in a bad light the way I told it,, and ended up, giving myself a pat on the back for understanding that garbage in can be garbage out.
I am seeing that I should stop telling even cute or funny stories about anyone really, because I either do not know the line before I cross it, or I get so carried away in making others laugh, or trying to give 'wise' or even 'godly' advise.....but yet end up gossiping.
And of course, there are times when I outright, gossip ( Doug is often a target, because of the crazy, or irritating, or bizarre, or infuriating, or annoying etc etc. things he does.....and so I end up gossiping to Hossanah, Leonard, or Brent our lawyer, or even another tenant here...
they of course, notice Doug, and maybe say something like what was he babbling so loudly to himself about (or whatever)
and if it JUST happened and I am still steamed, I will blurt out something unkind which makes him look bad ( even IF its the truth.....well, I don't make up lies about him, LOL I don't have to.....
but again
I should probably just say, I guess he was upset and hurt 9 or something simple) and leave it at that ....
but mostly, I need to stop with stories all together...unless it about myself....I could have used myself as the example for both the clothing and bad dreams stories.
This is the first time, a partial solution has come to me, I never thought it thru far enough
I agree an apology is a good and godly example, but even better, would not to gossip at all.
Well that would be one bad way I have influenced family.
I think one good way, tho it does not out weigh the bad, is I have bought MacArthur bibles for Hossanah and Devon ( and for Brian's 2 children that are here....more children Bibles as they have no background in the Bible at all.
I do read to Devon Kids Christian fiction and we do talk about biblical principals. the last 2 days I talked to each Vanessa and Devon about dating vs. courtship and how dating teaches people to harden their hearts 9 as they break up get a new boyfriend girl friend usually at least several times before they get married....
and that teaches or makes getting divorced easier
also we talk a little about what is a girl friend vs a girlfriend, and what is 'love' really.
so sometimes those chats might have an influence ( or at least maybe a seed is planted).
Still a bad influence happened yesterday. I had received a call...
( which happens once or twice a year....apparently some rest stop billboard for a company for campers has my phone....I have had the people call and tell the company its wrong number, and I have called and talked to them also ( maybe its too spendy to change it???)
Anyway, I got a call just as we were trying to go to church and Devon was coming ( only we never got to go because for some reason instead of the usual 2 services....there was only one and we missed it)
Well, the guy at first was asking info and I told him it was not the company ( nine trails or something like that).
But then.....
He got very very weird....talking about his dad who planted a bomb that was just a joke, and this guy wrote a book and he went on and on and I couldn't get him to stop ...I finally said, I have got to go we are on our way to church ( and he said, oh I will go to church with you....and other weird things)
Anyway he said I will call you later....but I just hung up.
So in the car ( with Devon listening) Leonard said, maybe you should get your number changed.
I did not want to do that because doctors, friends, etc all know this number and its one of the few I can actually remember...etc.
But this was a bad influence because I was not exactly arguing with Leonard, I just wanted to do it 'my way'.
I did say if the guy called back then I would.....he has not yet.
and these calls happen only once in a great while but his guy was definitely creepy or weird and a little scary.
I did do a tel number search and found out where it came from...far-ish from us. But he knows I live in Seaside....
Anyway, that was not good....but at the same time, it was our 46th wedding anniversary...which was kind of good.
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Post by Cindy on Oct 2, 2018 10:14:17 GMT -5
I think at one time we went over what is 'gossip', exactly.
it gets hazy for me, in a couple of ways...
sometimes, when just telling someone else a story ( it might be funny or for a point etc.)
but it is not told to make the person look bad, or me look better ( at least, that was not my conscious intention.....
but then...
often,
as the story goes on,
and later as I reflect on it ,
I can see that maybe, one or the other happened.... or both.
I was talking to Brian's daughter yesterday for example
and I was trying to make a point about being frugal ( because of what had been said previously)
and told a story.....that when my granddaughter first starting buying clothes herself she would buy popular name brands at full price and for a couple hundred dollars only get 2 pieces of clothing.
I went on to say that thrift stores often have clothing (popular brand names even) that have never been worn and you can telling because all the price tags have never been removed.
and so now, when,
Vanessa shops she usually goes to thrift stores and buys all kinds of cute clothes and for the same amount of money now will get 20 or 30 pieces of clothing. ( which was a kind of compliment about Vanessa in my mind....but I doubt it came out that way).
because, in telling this story,
looking back at my story,
it made Vanessa seem sort of ditsy at first and me ever so wise.....
which seems like I crossed the line into 'gossip'.
But to add insult to injury, I added that Vanessa now is only spendy on prom dresses, that are only worn once, and sort of rolled my eyes.
My intention initially was a talk on being thrifty....and I was using Vanessa as an example.....but I am thinking now, I could have just said instead:
That a person could buy popular brand names full price and get very little clothing for their money or they could look for sales, or even thrift stores which often have clothes never worn...etc.
I also used Devon as an example of why watching scary vampire etc. programs can lead to nightmares....but again, it put him in a bad light the way I told it,, and ended up, giving myself a pat on the back for understanding that garbage in can be garbage out.
I am seeing that I should stop telling even cute or funny stories about anyone really, because I either do not know the line before I cross it, or I get so carried away in making others laugh, or trying to give 'wise' or even 'godly' advise.....but yet end up gossiping.
And of course, there are times when I outright, gossip ( Doug is often a target, because of the crazy, or irritating, or bizarre, or infuriating, or annoying etc etc. things he does.....and so I end up gossiping to Hossanah, Leonard, or Brent our lawyer, or even another tenant here...
they of course, notice Doug, and maybe say something like what was he babbling so loudly to himself about (or whatever)
and if it JUST happened and I am still steamed, I will blurt out something unkind which makes him look bad ( even IF its the truth.....well, I don't make up lies about him, LOL I don't have to.....
but again
I should probably just say, I guess he was upset and hurt 9 or something simple) and leave it at that ....
but mostly, I need to stop with stories all together...unless it about myself....I could have used myself as the example for both the clothing and bad dreams stories.
This is the first time, a partial solution has come to me, I never thought it thru far enough
I agree an apology is a good and godly example, but even better, would not to gossip at all.
Well that would be one bad way I have influenced family.
I think one good way, tho it does not out weigh the bad, is I have bought MacArthur bibles for Hossanah and Devon ( and for Brian's 2 children that are here....more children Bibles as they have no background in the Bible at all.
I do read to Devon Kids Christian fiction and we do talk about biblical principals. the last 2 days I talked to each Vanessa and Devon about dating vs. courtship and how dating teaches people to harden their hearts 9 as they break up get a new boyfriend girl friend usually at least several times before they get married....
and that teaches or makes getting divorced easier
also we talk a little about what is a girl friend vs a girlfriend, and what is 'love' really.
so sometimes those chats might have an influence ( or at least maybe a seed is planted).
Still a bad influence happened yesterday. I had received a call...
( which happens once or twice a year....apparently some rest stop billboard for a company for campers has my phone....I have had the people call and tell the company its wrong number, and I have called and talked to them also ( maybe its too spendy to change it???)
Anyway, I got a call just as we were trying to go to church and Devon was coming ( only we never got to go because for some reason instead of the usual 2 services....there was only one and we missed it)
Well, the guy at first was asking info and I told him it was not the company ( nine trails or something like that).
But then.....
He got very very weird....talking about his dad who planted a bomb that was just a joke, and this guy wrote a book and he went on and on and I couldn't get him to stop ...I finally said, I have got to go we are on our way to church ( and he said, oh I will go to church with you....and other weird things)
Anyway he said I will call you later....but I just hung up.
So in the car ( with Devon listening) Leonard said, maybe you should get your number changed.
I did not want to do that because doctors, friends, etc all know this number and its one of the few I can actually remember...etc.
But this was a bad influence because I was not exactly arguing with Leonard, I just wanted to do it 'my way'.
I did say if the guy called back then I would.....he has not yet.
and these calls happen only once in a great while but his guy was definitely creepy or weird and a little scary.
I did do a tel number search and found out where it came from...far-ish from us. But he knows I live in Seaside....
Anyway, that was not good....but at the same time, it was our 46th wedding anniversary...which was kind of good.
Again, using Devon to explain that was fine. If you think back hard enough, I'm sure I've used my kids and grandkids to share many things like that. Again, it's not about you!!! It's about purposely telling someone something about another person in order to make that person look really bad.
Gossip is when you tell a story or give someone information about another person that's negative knowing it makes them look bad. For example, when Bruce comes home from work every day, he tells me all about what happened, and what everyone said and did. He doesn't do it to make anyone look bad, because he likes most of them, but instead he does it to keep me informed about what he's doing, and to share the funny stories of things they've done and said that day, jokes they played on each other, etc. There is no gossip involved.
No! You don't have to stop telling cute or funny stories, those aren't gossip!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The only possible way they could be would be if they were not cute, not funny, and you hated your grandkids and wanted other people to hate them too. That's the purpose of gossip!!!!!
Now that I realize that you're thinking those things are gossip, you most certainly do not need to apologize! Yes, perhaps about Doug, but certainly not for the other things you said.
Remember, gossip is done because you dislike someone strongly and don't want others to like them either. Or another reason could be that others are gossiping about someone they hate and you want to be like them so you tell hateful stories about that person as well. Either way, gossip is telling hateful stories, not funny or cute stories! Such as saying that you saw so and so's child sneak out of their house one night after 10pm and that means she must be going to get some drugs because everyone knows her parents are on drugs anyway, so she's following in their footsteps etc. This is the thing about gossip: #1. You don't know if the child was "sneaking" out or not. You just happened to see that she was outside her house at 10pm. #2. You don't know why she was outside, so you make up something bad to make her and her parents look bad. (for all you know she could have been going to get a gift for her parents to surprise one of them on their birthday) Gossip almost always involves making things up, or you could say drawing conclusions from the circumstances to make someone look bad. While there may be some known facts involved, it's mostly rumor and guessing. It's about hate and slander, and not about being funny or cute. In fact, slander is another term for it that the Bible uses.
Those are good ways you've been a good influence on people around you. And yes, even "planting a seed" is an influence on someone. Just because a person doesn't immediately change their behavior, doesn't mean you haven't influenced them. We influence people constantly. For example someone telling their children that it's wrong to lie, and even punishing them when they do, but then their children see them lie when someone calls that they don't want to talk to - because they ask someone to tell the person they're not home. Or maybe they see them lie on their income taxes or to the government another way, or they lie to their work saying they're sick when they just want to stay home. That would of course be a bad influence.
Another example of how you're a good influence would be that people see that you read your bible daily; they see how you talk and how you act and that you try to do things the way God wants us to. It's not about being perfect, or making people think you're perfect, that would actually be a bad influence. People need to see that we're human and we sin, but that when we do, we ask for forgiveness and try again. That's a good influence.
About the phone call: there's no way to know where the person was calling from. They can use a false number and false name anytime and make it look like they're calling from anywhere they want to. We've gotten many calls like that. I've even gotten calls that said that I was calling myself! (In other words, the caller ID said that Cynthia LaFreniere was calling from my home phone number, which is of course impossible when I'm sitting at home and I'm the one answering it!) I've had my number for 30 years or more and it's public so I get probably 4 calls a day from some telemarketer or some weirdo. I either don't answer it if I don't know who's calling, or if I do, I hang up immediately as soon as I realize it's automated, a telemarketer, or a weirdo - especially the ones who say they're calling from microsoft about my computer!
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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Post by fearnot on Oct 2, 2018 12:13:50 GMT -5
I am so glad you went over again what exactly is gossip.
I keep thinking if I tell a true story, but at least part ofe even demos it is the person doing something, silly, dumb, stupid....that also is gossip because tho I am not trying to get anyone to hate my grandchildren or even children or landlord, or neighbor....
then I ought not to broadcast that....even if it was funny
it was funny at their expense.
Tho, there have been times ( not excusing this) when I have told something about what Devon did....probably to Hossanah...and Devon laughs, and will add to it, maybe even demonstrate physical.
I guess, I am thinking, even if I love the person, and the 'story' tho it could be funny or cute....
If
it puts the person in a bad light ( like they look ditsy, or clumsy, or foolish....even if they were, even if, they laugh about it
it really isn't a loving thing to do and is gossip?
But, it surely helped me see, its seldom I have done it to get someone to dislike a person....even with doug
Tho, I have told Hossanah once or twice, because, I thought she should be 'careful' because he seemed to have tooooo much interest in her children.
but its like you said, I can't be sure of his intentions but when he constantly wants to buy them gifts, or give them things, I just don't feel totally comfortable about his interest.
he may be completely innocent and meaning absolutely nothing but just caring kindness.
I think I might still be holding onto things he wrote and said in the past, like wanting to hurt Leonard.....I am pretty certain that was due to his drinking and he now has been clean and sober again...(first time was for over 10 years) but now for over 3 years. I think that is an hard won accomplishment.
But even then, tho I am frustrated with Doug, I have never wanted Hossanah to hate him.
But I know my heart is not right about him because he does not seem to understand any boundaries...
and that frustrates Leonard also.
But we actually care about Doug...the old love the ( well he is not really) unlovable
as one's own unlovable self
Oh that's not how it goes LOL
I wrote in chat what happened yesterday.....I was going to post in again...
here
but this is already soooo long, that when you get the chance could you read it on chat?
But to let you know, I already did some personal bible study already today, and will do more...tho I cannot 'make up for yesterday...I can still do double time or more today.
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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Post by fearnot on Oct 2, 2018 15:28:40 GMT -5
I forgot to mention I've also been listening to her recommendation of "Fighting for the Faith".....he is on you tube also.
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Post by Cindy on Oct 3, 2018 10:01:51 GMT -5
I am so glad you went over again what exactly is gossip.
I keep thinking if I tell a true story, but at least part of even demos it is the person doing something, silly, dumb, stupid....that also is gossip because tho I am not trying to get anyone to hate my grandchildren or even children or landlord, or neighbor....
then I ought not to broadcast that....even if it was funny
it was funny at their expense.
Tho, there have been times ( not excusing this) when I have told something about what Devon did....probably to Hossanah...and Devon laughs, and will add to it, maybe even demonstrate physical.
I guess, I am thinking, even if I love the person, and the 'story' tho it could be funny or cute....
If it puts the person in a bad light ( like they look ditsy, or clumsy, or foolish....even if they were, even if, they laugh about it
it really isn't a loving thing to do and is gossip?
But, it surely helped me see, its seldom I have done it to get someone to dislike a person....even with doug
Tho, I have told Hossanah once or twice, because, I thought she should be 'careful' because he seemed to have tooooo much interest in her children.
but its like you said, I can't be sure of his intentions but when he constantly wants to buy them gifts, or give them things, I just don't feel totally comfortable about his interest.
he may be completely innocent and meaning absolutely nothing but just caring kindness.
I think I might still be holding onto things he wrote and said in the past, like wanting to hurt Leonard.....I am pretty certain that was due to his drinking and he now has been clean and sober again...(first time was for over 10 years) but now for over 3 years. I think that is an hard won accomplishment.
But even then, tho I am frustrated with Doug, I have never wanted Hossanah to hate him.
But I know my heart is not right about him because he does not seem to understand any boundaries...
and that frustrates Leonard also.
But we actually care about Doug...the old love the ( well he is not really) unlovable
as one's own unlovable self
Oh that's not how it goes LOL
I wrote in chat what happened yesterday.....I was going to post in again...
here
but this is already soooo long, that when you get the chance could you read it on chat?
But to let you know, I already did some personal bible study already today, and will do more...tho I cannot 'make up for yesterday...I can still do double time or more today.
As far as what you told Hossanah goes, remember that what the world calls intuition or a "gut feeling" for us isn't that. It's the Holy Spirit letting us know something. So don't second guess things like that. Your daughter's job is to protect her children, and the Lord will often share things with grandparents if the adult child isn't listening or needs confirmation.
I forgot to mention I've also been listening to her recommendation of "Fighting for the Faith".....he is on you tube also.
Questions you still have missed from the first one:
At what time in history was this book written? What is the theme or purpose of this book?
You haven't mentioned whether or not you've been doing the homework:
Homework
Although Lemuel’s mother didn’t hold an official position of authority, she still had a powerful influence on the king (and her son, even if he hadn’t been king). Make a list of the five people you have the potential to influence the most. In what ways can your words and behavior influence them for the gospel and toward godliness? For the next week, commit to pray for these five people each day, asking God to help you to be a godly influence on them.
Suggested Memory Verse
Charm is deceitful, and beauty is vain, but a woman who fears the Lord is to be praised.
Prov 31:30
I'll post the next one for you next.
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Post by Cindy on Oct 3, 2018 10:07:52 GMT -5
Imperishable Beauty: Lesson 3 by Michelle Lesley
Read Proverbs 31:1-31
Questions to Consider
1. Briefly review lesson 2 (link above) to refresh your memory on the context and background of this passage.
2. Considering the context of chapter 31, the person who spoke these words, and the person to whom they were spoken, were verses 10-31 originally meant as instructions to godly women? If not, how would you characterize the purpose and intent of this section?
3. Verse 10 introduces the passage as being a description of what kind of woman (her station in life)? Look carefully at the attributes of the ideal wife described in 10-31. Are these attributes that only characterize married women? Why or why not? What is the foundation of being an “excellent wife”? How does this foundation apply to all Christian women?
4. List the actions which typify a godly wife/woman (13-22, 24,26). In what ways are you performing similar actions in your own life?
5. Describe the attitudes and attributes displayed by a godly wife/woman (12-18, 20-21, 25-27). In what ways has God grown you in these attitudes and attributes? Which of these attitudes and attributes do you feel God needs to grow you in the most? Why?
6. How do a godly wife’s/woman’s actions, attitudes, and attributes affect others? Those dearest to her (11-12, 21,23,26-29)? Those she is responsible for (15,21,26-27)? Her community (2,23)? How does affecting others correlate with the concept (from lesson 2) of stewarding our influence over others in a godly way?
7. What is God’s assessment of a godly wife/woman? (10,29-31). (Notice where these verses giving God’s assessment are situated in this passage. How does this strategic placement of these verses help emphasize the godly value of the woman’s actions, attitudes/attributes, and affecting others contained in the verses in between?) Step back and take a “flyover” view of God’s Kingdom: why does God consider a woman’s godly actions, attitudes/attributes, and affecting others to be so vital, precious and praiseworthy? Some think God (and the Bible) treat women as “second class citizens” or less valuable than men. What does this passage have to say about that?
8. How does this passage – these actions, attitudes/attributes, affecting others, and God’s assessment – point us to Christ?
9. In lesson 2, we learned that many scholars believe Lemuel was actually Solomon himself. Compare 1 Kings 11:1-10 with Proverbs 31:10-31. What were the actions and attitudes/attributes of Solomon’s wives, and how did they affect him? What was God’s assessment of Solomon for letting them affect him this way? How does the 1 Kings passage support and prove the Proverbs passage?
Homework
Most of the attributes in 10-31 are not exclusive to married women. Imagine you’re teaching this passage to a women’s Bible study class in which all of the women are single, divorced, or widowed. How would you apply each of these verses to their lives? For example, in verse 28, the women in your class may not have children or a husband to “call her blessed”/”praise” her, but who would?
Suggested Memory Verse
Charm is deceitful, and beauty is vain, but a woman who fears the Lord is to be praised.
Proverbs 31:30
Posted with permission
michellelesley.com/2018/09/26/imperishable-beauty-lesson-3/
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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Post by fearnot on Oct 3, 2018 10:44:49 GMT -5
Hossanah is both kind and nice to Doug, but she is cautious when it comes to her children. She has let him say hi and so forth, but even last week, He was again wanting to either buy them gifts or brought inappropriate stuff ( Leonard told me so I am a little hazy as I was not there).
But she apparently got angry at him, and told him it was inappropriate!!
The next day he apologized to Leonard, which was a good thing, he saw he was wrong and did the right thing.
She has always been careful with her children and can be feisty if push comes to shove LOL
I am not sure if it due to her red hair, or growing up in Hawaii ha!
I did notice on one of that guy's videos he was a bit sarcastic.
One of the videos I listened to was about one of the many false teachers , He sounded a bit sarcastic...but in some of his other videos, not so much sarcasm.
I did not actually hear name calling, but rather he would say something like:
um..no, that is not what the Bible says.....lets look at the scripture,
this is what he ( the false teacher) has left out...
or in another video , He said, lets look at the whole passage, its not about ------
( whatever the false teacher was trying to make it say)
....scripture clearly states its about ----- and he would read what it said.
But looking at the list of his videos ( not all are about false teachers), wow!!!
I had noooo idea there were THAT many 'popular' false teachers!!!
I knew a lot of the false teachers.... and I knew there were a 'lot'.....,
but how sad, there are soooooooo many many more than I thought even,
and they have huge followers to boot!!
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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Post by fearnot on Oct 3, 2018 11:09:44 GMT -5
arrrgghhhh I keep forgetting
well first
i have been memorizing the memory verse ( I think I have it down word perfect however)
The other 2 things I missed
Q) At what time in history was this book written?
A) I am not certain as to the exact time this is written, but it seems to be during the times of the Kings of Israel and maybe during the time of Solomon's reign.
Q)
What is the theme or purpose of this book?
A) The first part, has to do with the characteristics needed for a good and godly king.
and the 2nd part about the character of a godly woman, wife and mother.
Q) Make a list of the five people you have the potential to influence the most.
A)
Husband
Daughter
grand daughter
grandson
Brian ( and his 2 children)
Q) In what ways can your words and behavior influence them for the gospel and toward godliness?
A) By being loving
Not worrying being peaceful
by speaking of God....in natural/nature/pets etc. beauty,
using scripture
being patient
being gentle
not gossiping but encouraging
be always honest ( with love)
show concern for the needy
be careful to not place outward beauty over inward beauty of a godly character
listen carefully and respectfully to even the youngest
For the next week, commit to pray for these five people each day, asking God to help you to be a godly influence on them.
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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Post by fearnot on Oct 3, 2018 13:54:19 GMT -5
I re-read Proverbs 31
Q.2.) Considering the context of chapter 31, the person who spoke these words, and the person to whom they were spoken, were verses 10-31 originally meant as instructions to godly women?
If not, how would you characterize the purpose and intent of this section?
A) First, it is spoken to a 'woman',
and I am thinking according to v. 30 our memory verse, that perhaps a godly woman is in mind because it says: a woman who fears the Lord is to be praised.
Still, it is good advise for all woman ( even if they are not saved, prayerfully they will be).
I think there is just a practical sense, in which all woman can find good and wise advise for living.
However, for a believer, there is a deeper spiritual sense, of how to be a godly woman, to please God, and be a godly influence/ambassador to those you come in contact with during your life.
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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Post by fearnot on Oct 4, 2018 11:48:33 GMT -5
Q) 3
Verse 10 introduces the passage as being a description of what kind of woman (her station in life)?
(A) It seems like either a king's court or someone of high standing and wealth....but the standards would be for any woman or modest or low income etc.
Look carefully at the attributes of the ideal wife described in 10-31.
Are these attributes that only characterize married women? Why or why not?
(A) No, the characteristics would be the same for unmarried/single woman, widows, divorced etc.
What is the foundation of being an “excellent wife”? How does this foundation apply to all Christian women?
(A)
A woman who fears the Lord is to be praised is the foundation, which would apply to married, divorced, and single woman.
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I thought it was kind of neat that gentleness was linked with not being anxious, and with God's peace guarding our hearts and minds in Christ. So to me it's saying that knowing the Lord is near is part of gentleness, and knowing He's near us, stops us from worry. I like what MacArthur explains about "gentleness": The word translated,“gentleness” has diverse meanings in the original language. It speaks of contentment, forbearing, generosity, & goodwill toward others; mercy or leniency toward the faults or failures of others; it describes patience, referring to someone who submits to injustice or mistreatment but doesn’t retaliate with hatred or bitterness. The best translation is “graciousness,”because in the Christian sense that word embodies all those meanings. It also includes the important element of humility. The humble Christian doesn’t hold a grudge but trusts God whenever he is mistreated, misjudged, or misrepresented. A person like that doesn’t demand his rights. Humility & graciousness will help you be stable in spite of the circumstances. Truth for today 
!!
