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Post by Cindy on Apr 21, 2015 11:24:13 GMT -5
I'm not going to attempt to copy the first 11 chapters of Roman's we've done through email, but we can start with chapter 12 on this thread, which I'm sure will make life easier for you all!
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383 
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Post by fearnot on Apr 22, 2015 11:08:45 GMT -5
I hope it's okay with you if I post about Romans Chapter 12 in a couple of posts. The reason is I often write a long-ish reply and am about to post it and somehow end up erasing the whole thing!!!! ( a quick aside before I start, today I go see my PCP at 3:30 my time)
Romans 12:
You said we were to try and write as if we were talking to a person who did understand any of it....at least that's what I think you said?
So the first thing we need to try and understand about is the word 'sacrifice' in this chapter.
God himself killed the first animal and made the 1st sacrifice for Adam and Eve's sin.
Animals ( especially lambs were used because they pointed to the "Lamb of God which would take away the sins of all who believed on Him (Jesus).
The animals had to die in order to make peace with God ( atonement for sins) and then to receive forgiveness.
However, The animals could not really pay for any human sin,
but rather, they 'foreshadowed' Jesus's one time (only....once and for ever) death on the cross ( sacrifice) which as far as God was concerned and so should we) ended all future animal sacrifice.
So that brings us to the first verse in Romans chapter 12 where we are told that we believers are to be "living ( not dead) sacrifices. Chapter 12 is going to help us see and understand what and how living sacrifices think and behave.
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fearnot
Living With Pain
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Post by fearnot on Apr 22, 2015 11:35:18 GMT -5
Romans 12: V 2 tells us:
"Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind."
We are 'transformed" by the renewing of our minds by studying ( with Jesus) the word of God the Bible.
Hebrews 4:12 tells us that God's Word is powerful:
"For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart."
What we fill our minds with..... is what we will think..... and that will affect how we act.
God's living alive word, in fact, in John 1:1 tells us that:
The Word Became Flesh
John:1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."
The Word IS GOD.....you can't find a better way to not be conformed to this world!
So we know a living sacrifice doesn't have to die ( but it might require suffering) except a 'dying to self'and placing ourselves totally under God's control).
Some people (even some Christians) might balk at that idea of being under God's 'control' because they believe the greatest blessing is to be 'freeeeeee"!
But that is a lie, no one is free!! If you do not belong to God then you belong to satan and are a slave of sin!
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Post by Cindy on Apr 22, 2015 12:04:54 GMT -5
Looks good hon, but I'll have to reply to it tomorrow as I don't have time today now. I hope you've done the whole chapter though and not just a few verses.... remember, that's what we were going to do...
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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Post by fearnot on Apr 22, 2015 13:17:12 GMT -5
So Roman's 12 shows us how to be totally devoted to the Lord, to be Holy and pleasing to Him because of His mercy and love to us. A major shift needs to happen from our self-centeredness and what will God give me to how may I serve others with the gifts God has given me. Each person has a 'primary' gift.
Tho all believers should cultive the other gifts...i.e. like 'serving' even if it is not his or her speciality.
I have been told by other people that my 'gift' was mercy, but I struggle with the 'cheerful' part sometimes.
The 'world' today, especially in our country, starts teaching very very young children to be 'proud'.
Parents and teachers alike either knowingly or without thinking it thru will often say: " I am soooo proud of you" or You should be so proud of your self etc. God states this theme ( of not being proud or conceited etc. 3 or 4 times in this chapter.....
When God says a similar thing several times we know it is important!!
Perhaps as we go thru this list in Ch. 12 and we see a little progress, we may be tempted to start thinking how much better we are than those who don't do any of these good and Godly things....
But God does not want us to be boastful and think we are better than other people.
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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Post by fearnot on Apr 22, 2015 13:21:00 GMT -5
Looks good hon, but I'll have to reply to it tomorrow as I don't have time today now. I hope you've done the whole chapter though and not just a few verses.... remember, that's what we were going to do... I am or have done the whole chapter...I keep getting interupted but I intend to get it all up before the day is out. I just posted a 3rd addition. I am doing it that way because I have lost or rather deleted by accident all my writing ( usually just as I am about to post it). So I am doing it in sections...if that is okay. I am going to post on the whole chapter! |
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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Post by fearnot on Apr 22, 2015 15:39:52 GMT -5
God has given each believer a 'measure of faith' and it is with that we are able to think with sober judgement. However I am wasn't sure of what the measure of faith is, because the amount is different for each person.
And then there is love and it must be real love and sincere.
The 2nd half of this verse (9) says we are to hate what is evil. The word 'hate' may seem like such a strong word, that many people think the word 'hate' is evil.
But this is not so, because 'evil' is so 'evil it can only be hated....and furthermore God tells us in the last part of this verse to cling to what is good!
We are to be devoted to each other in brotherly love and we are told in the following verses over 4 times to honor others above ourselves.
I did forget in about 2 hours or less I have to go to my PCP arrggghhh I will still try to finish this today tho ( I have my notes anyway :-)
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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Post by fearnot on Apr 22, 2015 16:22:14 GMT -5
God gives us more of His wonderful list for us to begin to be transformed;
being patient in affliction seems like a hard one and will take much prayer and God's Holy spirit etc. to help us put into practice. In fact, God encourages us to be faithful in prayer and with such a list so unlike what most of us would do naturally, faithful in prayer makes great sense!
Perhaps one of the hardest to put into practice is v.14 , which tells us we are to:
"14 Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse"
Many people's first response would be to strike back, but God says to Bless them instead.
I just read yesterday an example of this: Pastor SAEED ABEDINI's head of his cell group, attacked him for singing praises to God....so instead of lashing back at him...
Pastor Saeed hugged him and showed him love that was in his heart.
And this poor man is in so much pain from multiple beatings ( he was supposed to have surgery but they never gave it to him rather they are increasing their torture.!
But the Lord goes even further and makes it clear we are not to repay anyone evil who has been evil to us....and also we are to as much as possible live in peace with every one v.18
We are warned not to seek revenge because that is something that is totally up to God. Instead we are to show our enemy as much love as we can so that we won't be over come by evil, but will overcome evil with good!!!
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Post by Cindy on Apr 23, 2015 13:15:14 GMT -5
I hope it's okay with you if I post about Romans Chapter 12 in a couple of posts. The reason is I often write a long-ish reply and am about to post it and somehow end up erasing the whole thing!!!! ( a quick aside before I start, today I go see my PCP at 3:30 my time) Romans 12:
You said we were to try and write as if we were talking to a person who did understand any of it....at least that's what I think you said?
So the first thing we need to try and understand about is the word 'sacrifice' in this chapter.
God himself killed the first animal and made the 1st sacrifice for Adam and Eve's sin.
Animals ( especially lambs were used because they pointed to the "Lamb of God which would take away the sins of all who believed on Him (Jesus).
The animals had to die in order to make peace with God ( atonement for sins) and then to receive forgiveness.
However, The animals could not really pay for any human sin,
but rather, they 'foreshadowed' Jesus's one time (only....once and for ever) death on the cross ( sacrifice) which as far as God was concerned and so should we) ended all future animal sacrifice.
So that brings us to the first verse in Romans chapter 12 where we are told that we believers are to be "living ( not dead) sacrifices. Chapter 12 is going to help us see and understand what and how living sacrifices think and behave.
That's very good so far! If I didn't know about any of this, my question would be, why did God insist on anmials having to die? You said it foreshadowed what Jesus did, but why didn't God chose some other way of canceling out sin? I'd say I didn't understand why something or someone had to die....That was fantastic Barbara! Well said!!!!Well done! Again, if I didn't know this, my questions would be things like, "how do I know what my gift is? Are you sure everyone has a gift? Do we only get one and is it always the same thing or can it change? If we don't know what are gift is, how can we cultivate it? I don't think I have one as I can't do anything very special...?" (I hear that last line from lots of people!) When you said you weren't sure what the measure of faith was, do you mean like "the amount" we're each given? or something else? You're right that it's different for everyone. The questions I think would most likely be asked would be, "When God gives us that faith, is that all we'll ever have? So if someone starts out with only a little faith, will they always only have a little faith?" My other question would be about honoring others before ourselves...I'd want to know what that means...or more accurately, what it would look like. Let us know in the pain thread what your doctor says ok? You're doing great!Well done! I think I'd want to know how we can do all of these things and live a life like this that's so different from how we're used to living. I'd also want to know just how far God expects us to go when He says to bless our enemies and those who are mean to us. Can't we just ignore them? I'd be thinking there was no way I could be nice to people that I hated and now you say that I'm not even allowed to hate them anymore, but before you said that God said to hate evil...these people did evil, so shouldn't I hate them...I don't understand... How can God ask these things of us? No one could do this!" That's how many people respond to this because they think it means that the bad person is going to get away with what they did and they don't like that idea. |
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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Post by fearnot on Apr 24, 2015 13:37:50 GMT -5
Before I start answering the questions....I have a question about this board. It mentions 'badges' to give to other people.... but you have to buy them? Is there anyway we can do something like what we did on the other FH?
Oh and one more question: You mentioned that you had your font etc already 'set'?? Can we peons do that? LOL
Anyway, back to Romans 12
You gave some suggestions that a person who didn't understand anything about the Bible, scripture or God might ask, if we were doing a Bible study on Romans 12 together. You asked ( for the newbie):
"why did God insist on anmials having to die?
You said it foreshadowed what Jesus did, but why didn't God chose some other way of canceling out sin?
I'd say I didn't understand why something or someone had to die...."
So first I would have them go back to Genesis 2:16,17
I would explain that God did not make humans to be sort of like robots that had ( it would be the way they were made they would have no choice but to love...but that would not really be true love) to love God.
In fact, in the Garden of Eden, it was in a way, the only time humans had a true 'free will' ( later they became slaves to sin or they chose to be 'servants and yet children of the living God).
In the garden the first man and woman were truly free. However, to show that they loved God he gave them only ONE rule:
Genesis 2: 16,17
"16 And the Lord God commanded the man, “You are free to eat from any tree in the garden;
17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die.”
They chose to sin and they began to die physically and had already 'died' spiritually.
However, God says in Hebrews 9:22 that without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sin.
But why such a harsh sad thing to ask? We can see that even the 1st sacrifice in the Bible that God accepted Able's lamb but not Cain's fruit and veggies.
I am sure someone may have invested some time and energy growing veggies but that does not cost the heart of killing a pet lamb who in those days may even sleep in your home ( not unlike our dogs and cats do).
God wanted us to see and feel how terrible sins cost is. It effects others as well.
Fruit or something we made by hand does not have the same impact to the seriousness, pain and evil of sin as a beloved pet having to die for our sins.I have already mentioned the shed blood of animals pointed to Jesus blood and death on the cross It cost Jesus everything to pay for our sins!!!
Jesus had done no wrong and that would be another reason for animals instead of fruit or some other item....animals had nothing to do with our sin and so they also pointed to Jesus who lead a perfect life without sin.
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Post by Cindy on Apr 26, 2015 12:43:29 GMT -5
Before I start answering the questions....I have a question about this board. It mentions 'badges' to give to other people.... but you have to buy them? Is there anyway we can do something like what we did on the other FH? Oh and one more question: You mentioned that you had your font etc already 'set'?? Can we peons do that? LOL Anyway, back to Romans 12 You gave some suggestions that a person who didn't understand anything about the Bible, scripture or God might ask, if we were doing a Bible study on Romans 12 together. You asked ( for the newbie): "why did God insist on anmials having to die? You said it foreshadowed what Jesus did, but why didn't God chose some other way of canceling out sin? I'd say I didn't understand why something or someone had to die...." So first I would have them go back to Genesis 2:16,17 I would explain that God did not make humans to be sort of like robots that had ( it would be the way they were made they would have no choice but to love...but that would not really be true love) to love God. In fact, in the Garden of Eden, it was in a way, the only time humans had a true 'free will' ( later they became slaves to sin or they chose to be 'servants and yet children of the living God). In the garden the first man and woman were truly free. However, to show that they loved God he gave them only ONE rule: Genesis 2: 16,17
"16 And the Lord God commanded the man, “You are free to eat from any tree in the garden;
17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die.”They chose to sin and they began to die physically and had already 'died' spiritually. However, God says in Hebrews 9:22 that without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sin. But why such a harsh sad thing to ask? We can see that even the 1st sacrifice in the Bible that God accepted Able's lamb but not Cain's fruit and veggies. I am sure someone may have invested some time and energy growing veggies but that does not cost the heart of killing a pet lamb who in those days may even sleep in your home ( not unlike our dogs and cats do). God wanted us to see and feel how terrible sins cost is. It effects others as well. Fruit or something we made by hand does not have the same impact to the seriousness, pain and evil of sin as a beloved pet having to die for our sins.I have already mentioned the shed blood of animals pointed to Jesus blood and death on the cross It cost Jesus everything to pay for our sins!!! Jesus had done no wrong and that would be another reason for animals instead of fruit or some other item....animals had nothing to do with our sin and so they also pointed to Jesus who lead a perfect life without sin.
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Excellent answer!!!! The part I put in bold is exactly what I was looking for! Very well done!!!! You'd be surprised how many Christians who've been saved, (or at least say they've been saved) for 20 years or more, don't know that! And that's one of the most important things we need to know, because otherwise we not only can't defend our faith, but we ourselves don't understand just how awful sin is. God's whole point was to show how horrible sin is to us. Remember that by that point, Adam and Eve's minds and hearts had been corrupted, so their thinking and feelings were already corrupted by evil. So now they had to learn just how awful evil was and what it was doing to them and would do in the future.
We have a tendency to think of sins as being big and little, but really they're all the same. A little white lie is as bad as murder because it too required the death of Jesus to pay for it. In another sense, obviously murder is worse then a lie, but I think the one of the reasons we tend to think that way is because we all lie at times, whereas we don't all commit murder. Therefore society, (not God) decided that murder was worse the lying. When we remember that every time we sin, it's another sin that was placed on our Lord when He died for us, it really makes us see it very differently.
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Post by evafromgreece on Apr 26, 2015 16:30:44 GMT -5
Hey guys! I made it .
I am here.
By 2morrow you will have also my explanation on the next chapter
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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Post by fearnot on Apr 26, 2015 19:14:44 GMT -5
On to the next set of questions.
You asked ( as if you did not know anything about God, scripture and in particular Romans Chapter 12 .
"1)- How do I know what my gift is?
2)- Are you sure everyone has a gift?
3)- Do we only get one and is it always the same thing or can it change?
4)- If we don't know what are gift is, how can we cultivate it?
5)- I don't think I have one as I can't do anything very special...?" (I hear that last line from lots of people!) "
I will start with the 2nd question first. I would explain that one of the first things a Christian has toll do is to be firmly convicted that the Bible is God's Word....all of it!
We don't start saying this part or that part of the Bible is a myth, or fantasy, or story. We believe the Bible, all of it is true and without error.
And that as God's Word it is True truth and there is no other book that is God's Word. Nothing is to be added to the Bible or taken away:
Revelation 22:18 "I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to that person the plagues described in this scroll. 19 And if anyone takes words away from this scroll of prophecy, God will take away from that person any share in the tree of life and in the Holy City, which are described in this scroll."
That being settled I can know every believer has a gift because God says so in His word and God does not lie. As to the first question how do we know what our gift is may be a little harder but God is not in the habit of making our life difficult or hard, so I would say that often our gift is something we are going to be good at, and happy to do. often other believers may see or gift before we do. But in everything we should ask the Lord in prayer to help us find it, be able to use it to help other and give God the glory.
I will come back and answer the other 3 but I am getting very tired and I also need to set some of the settings. I did read all you wrote about it Cindy but being me, I managed to not see that part arrgghh. So now I am going to see if I can find it and set it up. Thank you for answering or I would have never found it on my own unless hubby mentioned it sigh!
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Post by Cindy on Apr 27, 2015 12:56:05 GMT -5
Hey guys! I made it . I am here. By 2morrow you will have also my explanation on the next chapter |
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Post by Cindy on Apr 27, 2015 12:58:06 GMT -5
On to the next set of questions.
You asked ( as if you did not know anything about God, scripture and in particular Romans Chapter 12 .
"1)- How do I know what my gift is?2)- Are you sure everyone has a gift? 3)- Do we only get one and is it always the same thing or can it change?4)- If we don't know what are gift is, how can we cultivate it? 5)- I don't think I have one as I can't do anything very special...?" (I hear that last line from lots of people!) "I will start with the 2nd question first. I would explain that one of the first things a Christian has toll do is to be firmly convicted that the Bible is God's Word....all of it!
We don't start saying this part or that part of the Bible is a myth, or fantasy, or story. We believe the Bible, all of it is true and without error.
And that as God's Word it is True truth and there is no other book that is God's Word. Nothing is to be added to the Bible or taken away:
Revelation 22:18 "I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to that person the plagues described in this scroll. 19 And if anyone takes words away from this scroll of prophecy, God will take away from that person any share in the tree of life and in the Holy City, which are described in this scroll."
That being settled I can know every believer has a gift because God says so in His word and God does not lie. As to the first question how do we know what our gift is may be a little harder but God is not in the habit of making our life difficult or hard, so I would say that often our gift is something we are going to be good at, and happy to do. often other believers may see or gift before we do. But in everything we should ask the Lord in prayer to help us find it, be able to use it to help other and give God the glory.
I will come back and answer the other 3 but I am getting very tired and I also need to set some of the settings. I did read all you wrote about it Cindy but being me, I managed to not see that part arrgghh. So now I am going to see if I can find it and set it up. Thank you for answering or I would have never found it on my own unless hubby mentioned it sigh!
No problem, I know it's hard to get used to a new board. |
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Post by evafromgreece on Apr 27, 2015 15:23:18 GMT -5
Hello everyone!
Here is my view on chapter 12
Before Jesus died and rose from the dead for our sins, sacrifices should be done in order for someone to be forgiven for a sin. Blood was necessary. Now as long as Jesus paid for our sins, we should respect this sacrifice by not knowingly sin. We should worship God by doing our best to live our lives in purity and not in sin. And we should be different to the world. Everyday we will be transformed in the image of God, with the help of the Holy Spirit.
Then Paul points out that we should be careful of pride. God has given each one of us some special gifts. We should use the gifts he offered us for His Glory and for serving the good, and not to boast about ourselves and also lying that we did this or that at the moment He is the one Who blessed us manage this or that.
We should give love to everyone. He should be honest in this, not only try to be good because we have to, this should be an honest decision. God knows our hearts. We should support other people and members of the Church (or does he mean only members of the church?) We should do everything in our lives to bring glory to God. We should not be lazy, we should have hope and not get down when things are difficult and we should help eachother. We are to treat in a good way people who mistreat us, and not to be angry or look for revenge. We should have compassion for everyone. Be happy when others are happy and be around them to offer help when they are having problems. If it is possible and as long it depends on us we should have peace with everybody.
And the Lord is the one Who is able to judje, this is not our responsibility, to judge or take revenge. And as long we treat well people who mistreat us, God see it and He is going to judge in a fair way, so we should not worry
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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Post by fearnot on Apr 28, 2015 22:33:50 GMT -5
As for question #3
3)- "Do we only get one (gift) and is it always the same thing or can it change"?
I honestly don't know for sure but I always was under the impression we had one 'primary' gift that was suited to how God made us and as a rule that would not change . Additionally we can all strive to build as much as possible the other gifts within us.
4)- "If we don't know what are gift is, how can we cultivate it?"
As we everything the first thing we should do is take that question to God in prayer.
Also often friend's will see our gift first and they may tell us or we might ask ( but never put another person above God.
Our primary gift can also begin to be discerned by another person's need.
The person with mercy will really want to comfort a hurting person, where as a person with service as their main gift, will want to be serving that person ( be it cleaning their home, or cooking, or driving them some where etc.), the person whose gift is teaching will want to help the person understand what is happening thru God's word the Bible, perhaps the person seems to make money without hardly trying and so will be motivated to give financially etc.
5)-"I don't think I have one as I can't do anything very special...?"
Our gifts are to be used to help people. People don't often demand 'special' when they are hurting....sometimes even a smile can uplift a hurting soul, or even one verse of scripture can give hope, five dollars can sometimes mean a person will have a bit of food to eat. People need a friend way more that 'special'. In a way, saying you can't do anything 'special' just in truth is a way of not doing anything. And all Christians can pray!!!
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Post by Cindy on Apr 29, 2015 14:38:32 GMT -5
Hello everyone! Here is my view on chapter 12 Before Jesus died and rose from the dead for our sins, sacrifices should be done in order for someone to be forgiven for a sin. Blood was necessary. Now as long as Jesus paid for our sins, we should respect this sacrifice by not knowingly sin. We should worship God by doing our best to live our lives in purity and not in sin. And we should be different to the world. Everyday we will be transformed in the image of God, with the help of the Holy Spirit. Then Paul points out that we should be careful of pride. God has given each one of us some special gifts. We should use the gifts he offered us for His Glory and for serving the good, and not to boast about ourselves and also lying that we did this or that at the moment He is the one Who blessed us manage this or that. We should give love to everyone. He should be honest in this, not only try to be good because we have to, this should be an honest decision. God knows our hearts. We should support other people and members of the Church (or does he mean only members of the church?) We should do everything in our lives to bring glory to God. We should not be lazy, we should have hope and not get down when things are difficult and we should help each other. We are to treat in a good way people who mistreat us, and not to be angry or look for revenge. We should have compassion for everyone. Be happy when others are happy and be around them to offer help when they are having problems. If it is possible and as long it depends on us we should have peace with everybody. And the Lord is the one Who is able to judje, this is not our responsibility, to judge or take revenge. And as long we treat well people who mistreat us, God see it and He is going to judge in a fair way, so we should not worry
Why did God insist on animals having to die? You said it foreshadowed what Jesus did, but why didn't God chose some other way of canceling out sin? I'd say I didn't understand why something or someone had to die....
Paul is especially talking about other members of the Church but is also including non believers.
You did a good job of explaining what it means to offer our bodies as living sacrifices!
The first point you left out was “Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will.” (Romans 12:2) If I didn't understand this chapter, I would want to know how we are transformed or changed.
You also left out: “For by the grace given me I say to every one of you: Do not think of yourself more highly than you ought, but rather think of yourself with sober judgment, in accordance with the measure of faith God has given you.” (Romans 12:3) "When God gives us that faith, is that all we'll ever have? So if someone starts out with only a little faith, will they always only have a little faith?"
The Next point you left out was in the next part, about all of us being part of the body of Christ,
and the next point you left out was about spiritual gifts. So I would like you to explain both of those to me.
I asked Barbara these questions about this section: "how do I know what my gift is? Are you sure everyone has a gift? Do we only get one and is it always the same thing or can it change? If we don't know what are gift is, how can we cultivate it? I don't think I have one as I can't do anything very special...?" (I hear that last line from lots of people!)
My other question would be about honoring others before ourselves...I'd want to know what that means...or more accurately, what it would look like.
I'd also want to know just how far God expects us to go when He says to bless our enemies and those who are mean to us. Can't we just ignore them? I'd be thinking there was no way I could be nice to people that I hated and now you say that I'm not even allowed to hate them anymore, but before you said that God said to hate evil...these people did evil, so shouldn't I hate them...I don't understand... How can God ask these things of us? No one could do this!" That's how many people respond to this because they think it means that the bad person is going to get away with what they did and they don't like that idea.
But you did a great job explaining it so far!
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Post by Cindy on Apr 29, 2015 14:48:00 GMT -5
As for question #3 3)- "Do we only get one (gift) and is it always the same thing or can it change"?
I honestly don't know for sure but I always was under the impression we had one 'primary' gift that was suited to how God made us and as a rule that would not change . Additionally we can all strive to build as much as possible the other gifts within us. 4)- "If we don't know what are gift is, how can we cultivate it?"
As we everything the first thing we should do is take that question to God in prayer. Also often friend's will see our gift first and they may tell us or we might ask ( but never put another person above God. Our primary gift can also begin to be discerned by another person's need. The person with mercy will really want to comfort a hurting person, where as a person with service as their main gift, will want to be serving that person ( be it cleaning their home, or cooking, or driving them some where etc.), the person whose gift is teaching will want to help the person understand what is happening thru God's word the Bible, perhaps the person seems to make money without hardly trying and so will be motivated to give financially etc. 5)-"I don't think I have one as I can't do anything very special...?"Our gifts are to be used to help people. People don't often demand 'special' when they are hurting....sometimes even a smile can uplift a hurting soul, or even one verse of scripture can give hope, five dollars can sometimes mean a person will have a bit of food to eat. People need a friend way more that 'special'. In a way, saying you can't do anything 'special' just in truth is a way of not doing anything. And all Christians can pray!!!
The rest of your explanation though was great! You're doing a fantastic job!
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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Post by fearnot on Apr 30, 2015 11:53:02 GMT -5
I am wondering if you wanted me to answer these 2 questions you asked Eva but I am not sure you asked me and if I should start reading all of Romans chapter13?
The questions I was thinking were:
My other question would be about honoring others before ourselves...I'd want to know what that means...or more accurately, what it would look like.
I'd also want to know just how far God expects us to go when He says to bless our enemies and those who are mean to us. Can't we just ignore them? I'd be thinking there was no way I could be nice to people that I hated and now you say that I'm not even allowed to hate them anymore, but before you said that God said to hate evil...these people did evil, so shouldn't I hate them...I don't understand... How can God ask these things of us? No one could do this!" That's how many people respond to this because they think it means that the bad person is going to get away with what they did and they don't like that idea.
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Post by Cindy on May 1, 2015 9:50:18 GMT -5
Yes, I asked those questions of you, I just copied them for Eva too. After that, go ahead and do the next chapter though
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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Post by fearnot on May 1, 2015 11:53:04 GMT -5
My other question would be about honoring others before ourselves...I'd want to know what that means...or more accurately, what it would look like.
One of the first things would be to:
"Do to others as you would have them do to you. Luke 6:31
If we think about how we would like to be treated, both when we are lovable and unlovable we already have a good idea how that would look.
We will have to stop putting our selves and our needs first and sacrifice a LOT!! Sort of like the way good parents do for their children. We would have a 'servant's heart' combined with a lot of patience and unconditional love....
not expecting or demanding acknowledgement or love in return. In fact, we should not get conceited and pat ourselves on our back for all the 'good' deeds we are doing.
We need to learn how to bless even our enemies and not to curse them.
It could even mean we give up material things for ourselves.
And we may need to give up 'time' for ourselves. We may need to be in prayer for them or be tending to their needs rather than curling up with a good book or movie or snooze etc.
I'd also want to know just how far God expects us to go when He says to bless our enemies and those who are mean to us. Can't we just ignore them? I'd be thinking there was no way I could be nice to people that I hated and now you say that I'm not even allowed to hate them anymore, but before you said that God said to hate evil...these people did evil, so shouldn't I hate them...I don't understand... How can God ask these things of us? No one could do this!" That's how many people respond to this because they think it means that the bad person is going to get away with what they did and they don't like that idea.
We can hate the 'sin' but not the person.
It's not really that hard ( after we calm down from the initial shock of having an enemy be mean to us) to pray and ask God to bless them! Yes we may feel very hurt, abused, misunderstood, wronged etc. because in fact, we may well have been badly treated.
But as the Bible states somewhere something to the effect: we have not suffered unto death.
Which in fact, our Lord and Savior Jesus did!!!
When we think back on our past sinful life and what an enemy of God's we were...
and yet, Jesus died for many of us who were still rotten dirty unsaved sinners...
we can begin to see that God is not asking us to do something He has not suffered a million zillion times more!!
And no one 'gets away' with doing evil...even if God forgives them and they become saved, they will for a time at least be so sorrorful that they caused Jesus so much pain as well as us!
Plus we will see how worth our suffering was if the Lord allows us a small part in leading them to Jesus and salvation...that joy will soooooo out weigh the hurt and pain.
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Post by Cindy on May 2, 2015 10:15:40 GMT -5
My other question would be about honoring others before ourselves...I'd want to know what that means...or more accurately, what it would look like.
One of the first things would be to:
"Do to others as you would have them do to you. Luke 6:31
If we think about how we would like to be treated, both when we are lovable and unlovable we already have a good idea how that would look.
We will have to stop putting our selves and our needs first and sacrifice a LOT!! Sort of like the way good parents do for their children. We would have a 'servant's heart' combined with a lot of patience and unconditional love....
not expecting or demanding acknowledgement or love in return. In fact, we should not get conceited and pat ourselves on our back for all the 'good' deeds we are doing.
We need to learn how to bless even our enemies and not to curse them.
It could even mean we give up material things for ourselves.
And we may need to give up 'time' for ourselves. We may need to be in prayer for them or be tending to their needs rather than curling up with a good book or movie or snooze etc.
I'd also want to know just how far God expects us to go when He says to bless our enemies and those who are mean to us. Can't we just ignore them? I'd be thinking there was no way I could be nice to people that I hated and now you say that I'm not even allowed to hate them anymore, but before you said that God said to hate evil...these people did evil, so shouldn't I hate them...I don't understand... How can God ask these things of us? No one could do this!" That's how many people respond to this because they think it means that the bad person is going to get away with what they did and they don't like that idea.
We can hate the 'sin' but not the person.
It's not really that hard ( after we calm down from the initial shock of having an enemy be mean to us) to pray and ask God to bless them! Yes we may feel very hurt, abused, misunderstood, wronged etc. because in fact, we may well have been badly treated.
But as the Bible states somewhere something to the effect: we have not suffered unto death.
Which in fact, our Lord and Savior Jesus did!!!
When we think back on our past sinful life and what an enemy of God's we were...
and yet, Jesus died for many of us who were still rotten dirty unsaved sinners...
we can begin to see that God is not asking us to do something He has not suffered a million zillion times more!!
And no one 'gets away' with doing evil...even if God forgives them and they become saved, they will for a time at least be so sorrorful that they caused Jesus so much pain as well as us!
Plus we will see how worth our suffering was if the Lord allows us a small part in leading them to Jesus and salvation...that joy will soooooo out weigh the hurt and pain.
Everyone who has ever been saved were His enemy at the time they were saved and still as you put it, "dirty rotten sinners", not just "many" of us. Like I said, though, I think that was just a typing mistake, but wanted to mention it to be sure.
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Post by evafromgreece on May 2, 2015 13:17:08 GMT -5
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Post by evafromgreece on May 2, 2015 13:18:32 GMT -5
:( I don't know.... Everything I wrote, after I clicked post its gone! :(
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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Post by fearnot on May 2, 2015 19:16:09 GMT -5
You are right Cindy it was a mistake....
I know/knew we ALL were 'dirty rotten sinners and enemies of God before we were saved.
I sometimes make silly mistakes because I am trying to think and type at the same time...
but I am always glad you point it out because someone reading it may not know that it was
an error, so it needs to be cleared up!
Thank you!!!
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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Post by fearnot on May 3, 2015 21:11:48 GMT -5
I am trying to find my draft. It was here and now its gone arrggghhh
Nope it's gone!!!
I hate that... especially when once and a while I have written a post that was pretty much the way I wanted it to be but took a lot of thought etc. and to reproduce it again would be next to impossible.
So that is what I guess is going to happen cuz I fear I cannot remember everything, the right order I wrote it in etc.
So yup instead of 8 or 9 paragraphs I could only remember about 1/2 of what I wrote and not the exact words sequence etc. :(
And I am going to post in sections so at least I won't lose so much in case it happens again...whatever caused me to lose the draft?
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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Post by fearnot on May 3, 2015 23:13:50 GMT -5
All a person has to do is to look at the news to see that disrespect for authority seems to grow worse and worse world wide today!
Some of the outcome is a hardening of hearts, pain, violence, anarchy, chaos etc.
I personally have seen such a difference from the 1950's to the 1960's when being a rebel went from being a sin to being a champion of so-called 'freedom". Law breakers have become 'courageous hero's'.
But there are still some people who 'only' whine, complain or criticize their authorities.
The question is what does God say about how we should think and act towards authority?
Romans 13 has a lot to say concerning the subject of authority and how we are to view those in authority over us, how we are to act, think and behave towards authority be in government, our boss, our spouse, our parents etc.
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Post by Cindy on May 4, 2015 11:52:11 GMT -5
:( I don't know.... Everything I wrote, after I clicked post its gone! :( |
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Post by Cindy on May 4, 2015 11:54:39 GMT -5
You are right Cindy it was a mistake.... I know/knew we ALL were 'dirty rotten sinners and enemies of God before we were saved. I sometimes make silly mistakes because I am trying to think and type at the same time... but I am always glad you point it out because someone reading it may not know that it was an error, so it needs to be cleared up! Thank you!!! I am trying to find my draft. It was here and now its gone arrggghhh
Nope it's gone!!!
I hate that... especially when once and a while I have written a post that was pretty much the way I wanted it to be but took a lot of thought etc. and to reproduce it again would be next to impossible.
So that is what I guess is going to happen cuz I fear I cannot remember everything, the right order I wrote it in etc.
So yup instead of 8 or 9 paragraphs I could only remember about 1/2 of what I wrote and not the exact words sequence etc. :(
And I am going to post in sections so at least I won't lose so much in case it happens again...whatever caused me to lose the draft? |
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