fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383 
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John 17
Jan 17, 2022 12:50:02 GMT -5
Post by fearnot on Jan 17, 2022 12:50:02 GMT -5
John 17 contains the 'real' Lord's prayer.
The prayer in Matthew 6
was a sample or a pattern prayer for believers.
He said in Matthew:
"When YOU pray".
Since Jesus remained fully God, He did not ever sin,
and thus could not ( nor would not pray)
And forgive us our debts,
as we also have forgiven our debtors
Matthew 6:12
But in John 17, Jesus prays as God the Son, to God the Father.
This is His prayer ( the Lord Jesus's prayer)
Father and Son oneness and intercession.
Jesus spoke these things; and lifting up His eyes to heaven,
He said, “Father, the hour has come;
glorify Your Son, that the Son may glorify You
John 17:1
Jesus looks up, because
( I think)
although God the Father is everywhere present,
His 'home' is Heaven.
“Can a man hide himself in hiding places
So I do not see him?” declares the Lord.
“Do I not fill the heavens and the earth?”
declares the Lord
Jeremiah 23:24
and
But our God is in the heavens;
He does whatever He pleases
Psalms 115:3
Of course this was not the only time Jesus looked up:
Here are a few other times:
And He took the five loaves and the two fish,
and looking up toward heaven,
He blessed the food and broke the loaves
and He kept giving them to the disciples to set before them;
and He divided up the two fish among them all
Mark 6:41
and
34 and looking up to heaven with a deep sigh,
He ( Jesus) said to him,
“Ephphatha!” that is, “Be opened!”
Mark 7:34
And for us:
Now when these things begin to happen,
look up and lift up your heads,
because your redemption draws near.
Luke 21:28
I am thinking, that perhaps, on the one hand
as an example for us
looking UP
can be a type of symbol for us,
that God is soooo soooo much 'higher'
in every way to us.
On the other hand,
we might also pray looking down,
in humbleness like the tax collector did:
And the tax collector, standing afar off,
would not so much as raise his eyes to heaven,
but beat his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me a sinner!
Luke 18:13
Opps! That's a first,
I did not even get though the first verse
there is a whole other part.
I guess, it was because, I always focused on the 2nd part of verse one,
and today, I was struck more by the fact Jesus looked up when He prayed.
Done for today
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John 17
Jan 18, 2022 10:05:47 GMT -5
Post by Cindy on Jan 18, 2022 10:05:47 GMT -5
That's interesting hon. But "looking up" with the eyes and hands lifted up to heaven was the normal position of prayer for the Jews. It was unusual for them to kneel to pray. Our modern practice of bowing our heads and closing our eyes comes from the parable of the Pharisee and the sinner.(Luke 18:9–14) ““But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner.’” (Luke 18:13)
We just leave out beating our breasts. Here's a few other places that shows them praying in this way:
“So they took away the stone. Then Jesus looked up and said, “Father, I thank you that you have heard me.” (John 11:41)
“He looked up to heaven and with a deep sigh said to him, “Ephphatha!” (which means, “Be opened!”).” (Mark 7:34)
“I lift up my eyes to you, to you whose throne is in heaven.” (Psalm 123:1)
“And he directed the people to sit down on the grass. Taking the five loaves and the two fish and looking up to heaven, he gave thanks and broke the loaves. Then he gave them to the disciples, and the disciples gave them to the people.” (Matthew 14:19)
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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John 17
Jan 18, 2022 13:10:37 GMT -5
Post by fearnot on Jan 18, 2022 13:10:37 GMT -5
As always thank you for your helpful input Cindy. :)
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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John 17
Jan 18, 2022 13:45:05 GMT -5
Post by fearnot on Jan 18, 2022 13:45:05 GMT -5
Back to the first verse of John 17
When Jesus had spoken these words, he lifted up his eyes to heaven,
and said,
“Father, the hour has come; glorify your Son
that the Son may glorify you
John 17:1
The 2nd part of verse one is interesting,
it is a unique situation all around....
Jesus will be 'glorified' by dying on the cross
( but in doing that, He will pay for believers sins,
defeat death,
and
He won the victory over Satan and his demons ( fallen angels).
In doing all of this He glorifies God the Father.
He disarmed the rulers and authorities
and put them to open shame,
by triumphing over them in him
Colossians 2:15
This prophecy came to fruition at that time
when God told the serpent ( Satan):
I will put enmity between you and the woman,
and between your offspring and her offspring;
he shall bruise your head,
and you shall bruise his heel
Genesis 3:15
Also
14 Since therefore the children share in flesh and blood,
he himself likewise partook of the same things,
that through death
he might destroy the one who has the power of death,
that is, the devil,
15 and deliver all those who through fear of death were subject to lifelong slavery.
Hebrews 2:14,15
However, one thing, I don't often think about,
is Jesus not ONLY died to save 'me' from my sins,
but....
He died to 'glorify' God the Father.
whoever speaks, as one who speaks oracles of God;
whoever serves, as one who serves by the strength that God supplies—
in order that in everything God may be glorified through Jesus Christ.
To him belong glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen.
1 Peter 4:11
and Jesus said:
Yet I do not seek my own glory;
there is One who seeks it, and he is the judge
John 8:50
Also Jesus said the purpose for this hour in His life, was to glorify the Father:
27 Now is my soul troubled. And what shall I say?
‘Father, save me from this hour’?
But for this purpose I have come to this hour.
28 Father, glorify your name.
John 12:27,28
The fact, Jesus came to glorify God the Father,
does not negate that He also came to save the believers from their sins.
24 For Christ has entered, not into holy places made with hands,
which are copies of the true things, but into heaven itself,
now to appear in the presence of God on our behalf.
25 Nor was it to offer himself repeatedly,
as the high priest enters the holy places every year with blood not his own,
26 for then he would have had to suffer repeatedly since the foundation of the world.
But as it is, he has appeared once for all
at the end of the ages to put away sin
by the sacrifice of himself.
Hebrews 9:24-26
So yes, for us,
but again, also for the Father:
how much more will the blood of Christ,
who through the eternal Spirit
offered himself without blemish to God,
purify our conscience from dead works to serve the living God.
Hebrews 9:14
Offering himself to God, glorified the Father.
5 Consequently, when Christ came into the world, he said,
“Sacrifices and offerings you have not desired,
but a body have you prepared for me;
6 in burnt offerings and sin offerings
you have taken no pleasure.
7 Then I said, ‘Behold, I have come to do your will, O God,
as it is written of me in the scroll of the book.’”
8 When he said above,
“You have neither desired nor taken pleasure in sacrifices
and offerings and burnt offerings
and sin offerings” (these are offered according to the law),
9 then he added, “Behold, I have come to do your will.”
Hebrews 10:5-9
Doing the will of the Father, glorified Him.
Showing the greatest love, mercy, compassion, there would ever be.
16 By this we know love,
that he laid down his life for us,
and we ought to lay down our lives for the brothers
1 John 3:16
Done for Today
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John 17
Jan 19, 2022 9:47:07 GMT -5
Post by Cindy on Jan 19, 2022 9:47:07 GMT -5
Good one!
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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John 17
Jan 19, 2022 12:00:49 GMT -5
Post by fearnot on Jan 19, 2022 12:00:49 GMT -5
Oh good! :)
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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John 17
Jan 19, 2022 14:37:02 GMT -5
Post by fearnot on Jan 19, 2022 14:37:02 GMT -5
Onto verse two of John 17:
since you have given him authority over all flesh,
to give eternal life to all whom you have given him.
John 17:2
I see in this verse Jesus has authority
the dictionary's first meaning for the word authority is:
'The power to enforce laws, exact obedience, command, determine, or judge'.
And so this is true of Jesus over all flesh.
We see this fact stated also in Matthew
(with the addition of Heaven):
And Jesus came and said to them,
“All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me"
Matthew 28:18
Also
that he worked in Christ when he raised him from the dead
and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly places,
21 far above all rule and authority and power and dominion,
and above every name that is named,
not only in this age but also in the one to come.
Ephesians 1:20-21
Furthermore
9 Therefore God has highly exalted him
and bestowed on him the name that is above every name,
10 so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and every tongue confess
that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.
Philippians 2:9-11
So Jesus has authority over the whole universe
angels, men, animals etc.
Jesus not only gives 'life' to every living thing,
but to mankind eternal life.
All things were made through him,
and without him was not any thing made
that was made.
4 In him was life,
and the life was the light of men.
John 1:3,4
Physical life, spiritual life and eternal life, all come from Jesus.
Done for today
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John 17
Jan 20, 2022 12:38:54 GMT -5
Post by Cindy on Jan 20, 2022 12:38:54 GMT -5
Awesome! But I can't leave it where you did, as you left the perfect opener for what's next! I'm going to try and do this in such a way that I hopefully won't take away from what you plan to say next. Nope, I can't do it because you might be planning on saying the same thing. So I'll wait till after you post tomorrow to add what I wanted to say. 
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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John 17
Jan 20, 2022 12:54:48 GMT -5
Post by fearnot on Jan 20, 2022 12:54:48 GMT -5
Oh noooooo you should have! LOL :)
Now I am going to worry and fret,
that I will most certainly miss what you are thinking sigh!
Plus, it's like a book, that ends in a cliff hanger....
so that you have to wait a year for the next in the series,
to find out what happens next
So okay, I don't have to wait a year, but for me,
even a whole day...
is a day much too long to wait and see what I am going to miss! haha
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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John 17
Jan 20, 2022 13:18:18 GMT -5
Post by fearnot on Jan 20, 2022 13:18:18 GMT -5
Today I am looking at verse 3 of John 17
And this is eternal life,
that they know you,
the only true God,
and Jesus Christ whom you have sent.
John 17:3
Jesus gives us a definition of what is eternal life,
and His definition is not what I normally think of, as the definition.
I have always looked at eternal life, as:
living forever in Heaven
( and not in Hell),
being with Jesus, the angels, and all the other Christians.
But Jesus defines eternal life differently than I.
( and of course, I am grateful).
Jesus says eternal life has to do with
'knowing'
God and Jesus.
And what does scripture say about how much we know about
God the Father and Jesus
right now, in this life?
12 For now we see in a mirror dimly,
but then face to face.
Now I know in part;
then I shall know fully,
even as I have been fully known.
1 Corinthians 13:12
and
Beloved, we are God's children now,
and what we will be has not yet appeared;
but we know that when he appears
we shall be like him,
because we shall see him as he is
1 John 3:2
Also
20 And we know that the Son of God has come
and has given us understanding,
so that we may know him who is true;
and we are in him who is true,
in his Son Jesus Christ.
He is the true God
and eternal life.
1 John 5:20
Many people, then in those days,
as now, in our times,
do not realize or acknowledge
orthey outright deny...
that the Father, sent Jesus.
Yet the Bible said:
10 He was in the world,
and the world was made through him,
yet the world did not know him
11 He came to his own,
and his own people
did not receive him
John 1:10,11
Concerning the deniers who deny that
God sent Jesus:
7 For many deceivers have gone out into the world,
those who do not confess the coming of Jesus Christ in the flesh.
Such a one is the deceiver and the antichrist
2 John 1:7
So for now,
we only 'know', our Lord, in part,
and only God,
knows God in full:
All things have been handed over to me by my Father,
and no one knows the Son except the Father,
and no one knows the Father except the Son
and anyone to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.
Matthew 11:27
Still Jesus can and will,
reveal God.....
as we read the Bible daily
we begin to see more clearly that:
3 He is the radiance of the glory of God
and the exact imprint of his nature,
and he upholds the universe by the word of his power.
After making purification for sins,
he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high
Hebrews 1:3
Done for today
( As I sit twiddling my thumbs
waiting with baited breath
so I can 'know' what I missed LOL)
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Post by Cindy on Jan 21, 2022 9:31:29 GMT -5
Your's is very good! You kind of got what I was going to say  : This next verse is a definition of eternal life!
“Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.” (John 17:3)
Eternal life is a Person, Jesus Christ. Eternal Life should be capitalized because it's another name for Jesus. The Bible documents this in 1 John 1:1-2. “That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched—this we proclaim concerning the Word of life. The life appeared; we have seen it and testify to it, and we proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and has appeared to us.” (1 John 1:1–2)
This passage reveals that Christ & Eternal Life are one & the same. “Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.” (John 14:6) In other words, "I am...the life" And "In Him was life" (John 1:4). "When Christ, who is our life, appears ..." (Col 3:4). So Eternal Life is a person, Jesus Christ. When you came to Jesus, He did not "come into your life"; He exchanged His powerful, obedient life, for your old rebellious, independent, self-serving life. Jesus Christ is our life,
“And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life.” (1 John 5:11–12)
“We know also that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true. And we are in him who is true—even in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.” (1 John 5:20)
John Ankerberg says, One Person alone has lived an overcoming life on earth: Jesus Christ. That one Person said, "I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me, and I in him, he bears much fruit; for apart from Me you can do nothing" (John 15:5). Christ is the vine in this metaphor; we Christians are the branches. Branches have no independent life. Branches "live and move and have their being" by the life of the vine. So long as branches abide (draw their life from the vine), they experience a fruitful existence. Notice that Jesus says branches "bear" fruit. That’s because branches never produce fruit; branches bear the fruit that is produced by the life of the vine through them. Should they try to live independently, they will die. Without vine life, they "can do nothing." Jesus said that without His life flowing through us, we are impotent, powerless. What if our salvation encompasses a new kind of life in addition to the forgiveness of sins? What if eternal life is not a mere extension of our old life, but a literal, new life? What if eternal life is actually the life of Christ? What if the Spirit of Christ who indwells us is intended to express life through us? What if it is His life through us that gives us power over the world, our own flesh, and the devil? If this were the case & a Christian husband understood how to let Christ live through him to minister agape love to his wife, would this make a huge difference in their marriage? Would Christ through him treat his wife like a precious gift from God? Would the fruit of the Spirit begin to become evident in this man behind the closed doors of his home as well as publicly? That’s a no-brainer. Christ living through this man would radically change his behavior for the better. Folks would want to find out more about the secret to such power.
When you came to Jesus, He did not "come into your life"; He exchanged His powerful, obedient life, for your old rebellious, independent, self-serving life. Jesus Christ is our life, folks, and we have the glorious privilege of cooperating with Him by trusting Him to express His life through us on earth. What a magnificent difference that makes!
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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John 17
Jan 21, 2022 12:39:42 GMT -5
Post by fearnot on Jan 21, 2022 12:39:42 GMT -5
Wonderful Cindy...
It was worth the cliff hanger wait! :)
Thank you :)
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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John 17
Jan 21, 2022 13:44:01 GMT -5
Post by fearnot on Jan 21, 2022 13:44:01 GMT -5
Today looking at John 17 verse 4
I glorified you on earth,
having accomplished the work
that you gave me to do
John 17:4
I am beginning to notice a 'theme' being:
a Prayer of glory.
Speaking of God's glory
Holy, Holy, Holy, is the Lord of hosts
The whole earth is full of His glory
Isaiah 6:3
and
Lord, our Lord,
how majestic is your name in all the earth!
You have set your glory
in the heavens
Psalms 8:1
Also
Surely all the men who have seen My glory and My signs
which I performed in Egypt and in the wilderness...
Numbers 14:22
The Bible makes it clear Jesus prayed continually to Father...
like:
Now when all the people were baptized,
Jesus was also baptized,
and while He was praying,
heaven was opened
Luke 3:21
and
In the days of His flesh,
He offered up both prayers
and supplications
with loud crying and tears
to the One able to save Him
from death,
and He was heard because of His piety
Hebrews 5:7
Also
After He had sent the crowds away,
He went up on the mountain by Himself to pray
and when it was evening, He was there alone.
Matthew 14:23
This
It was at this time that He went off to the mountain to pray,
and He spent the whole night in prayer to God
But in this prayer we get to know the content
of what Jesus prayed
and glory is a major aspect.
While on earth Jesus as man
( tho He was always God)
Gave us the example of giving
perfectly:
glory to God the Father
Ascribe to the Lord the glory due to His name;
Worship the Lord in holy array
Psalms 29:2
The work Jesus was about to complete
was going to the cross.
Jesus had also done miracles,
and been a perfect example to mankind,
by His Words and doctrine,
and in His life that He lived,
and instructions He gave.
He who was revealed in the flesh,
Was vindicated in the Spirit,
Seen by angels,
Proclaimed among the nations,
Believed on in the world,
Taken up in glory
1 Timothy 3:16
Jesus saying He accomplished the work
reminds us of His dying Words:
....He said,
“It is finished!”
And He bowed His head
and gave up His spirit.
John 19:30
Done for Today
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John 17
Jan 24, 2022 12:29:06 GMT -5
Post by Cindy on Jan 24, 2022 12:29:06 GMT -5
actually I think it would make more sense if I post inside your last post:
Today looking at John 17 verse 4
I glorified you on earth,
having accomplished the work
that you gave me to do
John 17:4
I am beginning to notice a 'theme' being:
a Prayer of glory.
I'm a little bit confused hon... Right at the beginning of your last post you said: "I am beginning to notice a 'theme' being: a Prayer of glory." and then you began talking about God's glory. First, I'm confused by what you mean by "a prayer of glory"? Are you suggesting that He was praying about glory, or what?
Speaking of God's glory
Holy, Holy, Holy, is the Lord of hosts
The whole earth is full of His glory
Isaiah 6:3
and
Lord, our Lord,
how majestic is your name in all the earth!
You have set your glory
in the heavens
Psalms 8:1
Also
Surely all the men who have seen My glory and My signs
which I performed in Egypt and in the wilderness...
Numbers 14:22
And the above scripture from numbers doesn't make any sense here, or if it does, I don't see the connection. Perhaps the scripture is easier to understand the way the NIV translates it. But I'll post both verse 22 and 23 so you see it in context: “not one of the men who saw my glory and the miraculous signs I performed in Egypt and in the desert but who disobeyed me and tested me ten times— not one of them will ever see the land I promised on oath to their forefathers. No one who has treated me with contempt will ever see it.” (Numbers 14:22–23)
And then you jumped from this to prayer again:
The Bible makes it clear Jesus prayed continually to Father...
like:
Now when all the people were baptized,
Jesus was also baptized,
and while He was praying,
heaven was opened
Luke 3:21
and
In the days of His flesh,
He offered up both prayers
and supplications
with loud crying and tears
to the One able to save Him
from death,
and He was heard because of His piety
Hebrews 5:7
Also
After He had sent the crowds away,
He went up on the mountain by Himself to pray
and when it was evening, He was there alone.
Matthew 14:23
This
It was at this time that He went off to the mountain to pray,
and He spent the whole night in prayer to God
Matthew 14:23 doesn't happen at the same time as John 17. It is the same time as John 6:16–21 though. The scripture from Matthew happened when Jesus was on a mountain praying and watching His disciples struggle to row their boat across the lake in the middle of a terrible storm. Eventually, after about 8 or 9 hours of watching them, He walked over the water to the boat and scared them to death. Then Peter tried to walk on water, after Jesus stopped the storm and after some success began to sink, so Jesus saved him. He then stepped into the boat with Peter and the boat "somehow" instantly arrived at the other shore.
But in this prayer we get to know the content
of what Jesus prayed
and glory is a major aspect.
I'm unsure why you feel glory is a major part of this prayer... out of 26 verses, glory is only mentioned in 5 of them. Therefore I don't think I would say that it's a major part of the prayer, unless of course you have another reason for saying so. We have to be careful about making statements about God's Word without backing them up, in other words, explaining why we are saying whatever it is.
While on earth Jesus as man
( tho He was always God)
Gave us the example of giving
perfectly:
glory to God the Father
Here again you've made a statement that Jesus has done something, (which I do agree with) but you don't explain how He did it. It leaves people hanging and wondering how He did it. The next scripture you post from psalms doesn't shed any light on how He did it either. It just tells us that we should do so.
Ascribe to the Lord the glory due to His name;
Worship the Lord in holy array
Psalms 29:2
The work Jesus was about to complete
was going to the cross.
Jesus had also done miracles,
and been a perfect example to mankind,
by His Words and doctrine,
and in His life that He lived,
and instructions He gave.
He who was revealed in the flesh,
Was vindicated in the Spirit,
Seen by angels,
Proclaimed among the nations,
Believed on in the world,
Taken up in glory
1 Timothy 3:16
Jesus saying He accomplished the work
reminds us of His dying Words:
....He said,
“It is finished!”
And He bowed His head
and gave up His spirit.
John 19:30
Done for Today
If you'd rather I stopped doing this, please let me know and I won't bother to do so any more. You do fine most of the time anyway. 
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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John 17
Jan 24, 2022 13:05:01 GMT -5
Post by fearnot on Jan 24, 2022 13:05:01 GMT -5
No carry on pointing out such things,
because those were good reminders and critiques etc.
I was tired...
( and I am going to make an effort to correct,
or explain some of those confusing words....
but I did not sleep one wink last night....
so tired again.
I think I should do, like you did, and post the original
but then explain where the confusion lies....
assuming I don't keep falling asleep.
I have absolutely no idea if this will actually happen,
but sometimes, I wonder if during the millennial reign of Jesus,
I might be teaching His words ( the Bible, scripture)
to some children,
( like a school teacher kind of or a Sunday school teacher?)
and all your helps will be of even greater value,
than even now.
Trying to remember why I choose to say,
I thought I saw as one of the themes in this prayer being that of glory....
I 'think' it might have been because I was thinking in the first 4 verses of John 17,
I had covered.....
glory was already mentioned 3 times.
Verse one had 2 mentions:
Jesus spoke these things; and lifting up His eyes to heaven, He said,
“Father, the hour has come;
glorify Your Son,
that the Son may glorify You
John 17:1
And then in verse 4 which I was sleepily working on :)
speaks of 'glory' again
I glorified You on the earth,
having accomplished the work which You have given Me to do.
John 17: 4
And looking ahead to verse 5
it is mentioned again twice:
Now, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself,
with the glory which I had with You before the world was.
John 17:5
And in the NASB 1995 I think it is mentioned another time
which gave me the idea that ,
though there are other themes
or pleas etc. that God the Son ( Jesus)
prays to God the Father..
their 'glory',
seemed to me.... at the time,
to be something on Jesus mind,
along with other issues.
But maybe it's the NASB that uses the word glory
I will have to check.
Which is probably what I should have done first huh?
But actually...maybe I should wait,
because if I am totally off track, saying a theme
( as in one of many, in this prayer)
was glory
and I just go and try to make the same wrong theory
that would be.....
not great.
So maybe I should just leave it with your corrections
and move on to verse 5 tomorrow?
What do you think?
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John 17
Jan 25, 2022 11:39:51 GMT -5
Post by Cindy on Jan 25, 2022 11:39:51 GMT -5
I'll leave it up to you if you want to correct it or not hon. Do what you think is best. I know that you and I both know the truth, so only others that read this might get confused.
As far as glorify being a theme goes, I realize what you said about the number of times the word is mentioned is true, but just because a word is mentioned twice in one sentence doesn't make it the theme of the entire prayer. On the other hand, The Westminster Larger Catechism says, "
Man’ s chief and highest end is to glorify God, (Rom. 11:36, Cor. 10:31) and fully to enjoy him forever. (Ps. 73:24–28, John 17:21–23)" and that "The first commandment requires us to know and acknowledge God to be the holy true God, and our God; (1 Chron. 28:9, Deut. 26:17) and to worship and glorify him accordingly. (Matt. 4:10, Ps. 29:2) But that's still not the theme of the the entire prayer. At most you could say it's the theme of the first 5 verses.
To me, this prayer is one of the most precious portions of scripture we have, as we're allowed to listen in as our Lord prays to His Father. It just doesn't get more intimate than this. Knowing that He not only prayed for the disciples that were with Him at that time, but that He also took time to pray for each of us who would follow Him and love Him in the future is just amazing to me. How much He must love us!
Anyway, do whatever you feel like doing with the post hon. Either way you decide is fine with me.
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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John 17
Jan 25, 2022 13:28:15 GMT -5
Post by fearnot on Jan 25, 2022 13:28:15 GMT -5
Yes, I was thinking in the first 5 verses,
have at least, in part,
to do with Jesus and the Father and their glory.
I was most likely working on maybe a misuse of something I heard long ago.
I don't remember the exact words, but it went something like :
that every word in the Bible is to be cherished, study, loved etc. But we might take even more special note when God says something more than once.
So I was think verses 1-5 had to do specifically with Jesus and the Father and their glory...
And then,
Jesus moves on to the disciples.
and all other believers that will ever be,
in His prayer.
I also probably should have said, something to the effect:
Jesus was often praying to the Father,
but we don't get to know but only a few words of those prayers....
and then said
here are some other prayers Jesus prayed,quoted a few of those prayers
as an example of the fact He prayed often,
which was why, I was just showing random prayers,
in scripture by our Lord
but none of them are as long
( or rather,
we are not given all the words for all the other prayers like we are for this prayer in John 17)
But you are right it is not the 'major' theme
but in the first 5 verses, it was...... a theme?
because....
I missed pointing out that in verse one
another theme ( besides their glory)!
and that is....
the hour has come
( for Jesus to die for the sins of mankind
on the Cross).
Jesus says in John 17 verse one:
"the hour has come"
Previously, in His life,
He would say,
( like in this verse)
So Jesus said to them,
“My time is not yet here,
but your time is always opportune
John 7:6
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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John 17
Jan 25, 2022 14:00:23 GMT -5
Post by fearnot on Jan 25, 2022 14:00:23 GMT -5
So now John 17 verse 5
5 And now, Father,
glorify me in your own presence
with the glory that I had with you
before the world existed.
John 17:5
Jesus knows that in going to the cross
and dying, he will conquer death,
give believers eternal life in Heaven,
so they will ever be with Him,
defeat the devil,
provided an example of perfect obedience
etc.
However, this verse, also points out
as clear as can be,
Jesus Christ, the Son,
existed in Heaven with God the Father
before Creation.
It's on the same level as:
In the beginning was the Word,
and the Word was with God,
and the Word was God.
2 He was in the beginning with God.
John 1:1,2
The Word in the above verse, is Jesus.
The words in the beginning, mean when
Creation began, time, space etc.
However, God ( and Jesus) were
BEFORE time, space, the universe
God created those things
( the universe, time, space etc did not create themselves,
out of nothing).
Here is another verse stating that Jesus came from Heaven:
What then if you see the Son of Man
ascending to where He was before?
John 6:62
Also
No one has ascended into heaven,
but He who descended from heaven:
the Son of Man.
John 3:13
The Son of Man is another title for Jesus, God the Son.
Also note, the glory Jesus
HAD ( in John 17:5)
He had it previously,
it's not that He will be getting it for the first time.
Done for today
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John 17
Jan 26, 2022 11:39:03 GMT -5
Post by Cindy on Jan 26, 2022 11:39:03 GMT -5
Yes, I was thinking in the first 5 verses,
have at least, in part,
to do with Jesus and the Father and their glory.
I was most likely working on maybe a misuse of something I heard long ago.
I don't remember the exact words, but it went something like :
that every word in the Bible is to be cherished, study, loved etc. But we might take even more special note when God says something more than once.
In other words, the rule about this is about entire verses, not a word that's repeated. If it was about words than every verse in the Bible would have many words that are repeated in other verses. It would be ridiculous. There's actually a psalm that's repeated twice, the first time it's Psalm 14, the second time it's Psalm 53. That's a good example of what this is about, although normally it's not 7 verses all in the same order in different psalms. A better example would be this: “A prudent man sees danger and takes refuge, but the simple keep going and suffer for it.” (Proverbs 22:3) And: “The prudent see danger and take refuge, but the simple keep going and suffer for it.” (Proverbs 27:12)
Or: “By the way that he came he will return; he will not enter this city, declares the LORD. I will defend this city and save it, for my sake and for the sake of David my servant.”” (2 Kings 19:33–34) And: “By the way that he came he will return; he will not enter this city,” declares the LORD. “I will defend this city and save it, for my sake and for the sake of David my servant!”” (Isaiah 37:34–35)
I hope this helps. |
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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John 17
Jan 26, 2022 15:11:42 GMT -5
Post by fearnot on Jan 26, 2022 15:11:42 GMT -5
Yes :)
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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John 17
Jan 26, 2022 15:43:51 GMT -5
Post by fearnot on Jan 26, 2022 15:43:51 GMT -5
Next I am looking at
John 17 verse 6
which says:
I have manifested your name to the people whom you gave me out of the world.
Yours they were, and you gave them to me, and they have kept your word.
John 17:6
Jesus is praying to the Father for us.
He is interceding for us, in prayer,
and then on the Cross to finish.
Intercession can be:
prayer on behalf of another,
which is what Jesus is doing,
and what He can do, because of the intimate relation between:
God the Father and God the Son ( Jesus).
Jesus was and is 100 % God
but also 100% man.
As a man on earth, He was without sin
and obeyed perfectly.
He made Him ( Jesus) who knew no sin
to be sin on our behalf,
so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him ( Jesus)
2 Corinthians 5:21
And
And being found in human form,
he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death,
even death on a cross
Philippians 2:8
However, as an aside,
Jesus continues even now,
His intercession for us,
He is our advocate.
My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin.
But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father,
Jesus Christ the righteous
1 John 2:1
and
Therefore He is able also to save forever
those who draw near to God through Him,
since He always lives to make intercession for them
Hebrews 7:25
So Jesus prays for those the Father has given Him.
He is not praying for those who will go to Hell.
I don't think when Jesus:
"they have kept your word"
that they did so perfectly like
He, Jesus did.
In fact, they could not, as sinners
but their hearts and minds and spirits
wanted to.
They have defended and professed the Word, also.
This prayer is a part of the Great love of God the Father
and the Son:
Now before the Feast of the Passover,
when Jesus knew that his hour had come
to depart out of this world to the Father,
having loved his own who were in the world,
he loved them to the end
John 13:1
Since, I keep falling asleep,
I don't want to compound any errors I may have
already committed about this verse...
So Done for Today
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John 17
Jan 27, 2022 10:36:33 GMT -5
Post by Cindy on Jan 27, 2022 10:36:33 GMT -5
I'm just going to add a few words inside your post this time. I hope that's ok....
Next I am looking at
John 17 verse 6
which says:
I have manifested your name to the people whom you gave me out of the world.
Yours they were, and you gave them to me, and they have kept your word.
John 17:6
Jesus is praying to the Father for us.
He is interceding for us, in prayer,
and then on the Cross to finish.
Jesus does pray for us, but in this particular verse and up through verse 19, He's praying for His 11 disciples. (Judas who will betray Him is not included). It could easily seem like He was praying for all believers, but then when you read it in context with verses 7 -19, it becomes obvious that He must be praying for His disciples. His prayer for all of us begins with verse 20: ““My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message,” (John 17:20)
Intercession can be:
prayer on behalf of another,
which is what Jesus is doing,
and what He can do, because of the intimate relation between:
God the Father and God the Son ( Jesus).
Yes, and that's what He's doing now, as our High Priest, to intercede on our behalf to the Father. “Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has gone through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold firmly to the faith we profess. For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are—yet was without sin. Let us then approach the throne of grace with confidence, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help us in our time of need.” (Hebrews 4:14–16) I know you say this later in a different way, I just wanted to add the part about Him being our "High Priest".
Jesus was and is 100 % God
but also 100% man.
As a man on earth, He was without sin
and obeyed perfectly.
He made Him ( Jesus) who knew no sin
to be sin on our behalf,
so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him ( Jesus)
2 Corinthians 5:21
And
And being found in human form,
he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death,
even death on a cross
Philippians 2:8
However, as an aside,
Jesus continues even now,
His intercession for us,
He is our advocate.
My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin.
But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father,
Jesus Christ the righteous
1 John 2:1
and
Therefore He is able also to save forever
those who draw near to God through Him,
since He always lives to make intercession for them
Hebrews 7:25
So Jesus prays for those the Father has given Him.
He is not praying for those who will go to Hell.
I don't think when Jesus:
"they have kept your word"
that they did so perfectly like
He, Jesus did.
In fact, they could not, as sinners
but their hearts and minds and spirits
wanted to.
They have defended and professed the Word, also.
Exactly! I like the way this commentary explains this: “they have kept Your word” Obedience is crucial. This is used in a similar sense to OT “blameless” (see Noah, Gen. 6:9; Abraham, Gen. 17:1; Israel, Deut. 18:13; Job, Job 1:1). It does not imply perfect obedience or sinlessness, but a desire to hear and do all that is revealed; so far it refers to the disciples’ faith in Jesus, abiding in Jesus and loving one another as Jesus loved them. The Beloved Disciple’s Memoirs and Letters
This prayer is a part of the Great love of God the Father
and the Son:
Now before the Feast of the Passover,
when Jesus knew that his hour had come
to depart out of this world to the Father,
having loved his own who were in the world,
he loved them to the end
John 13:1
Since, I keep falling asleep,
I don't want to compound any errors I may have
already committed about this verse...
So Done for Today
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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John 17
Jan 27, 2022 13:53:33 GMT -5
Post by fearnot on Jan 27, 2022 13:53:33 GMT -5
Thank you Cindy...as always. :)
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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John 17
Jan 27, 2022 14:04:50 GMT -5
Post by fearnot on Jan 27, 2022 14:04:50 GMT -5
Today I am looking at John 17 verse seven.
Now they know that everything that you have given me is from you.
John 17:7
To know, I believe, in the apostles case
( except for Judas)
means they 'believed'.
It reminds me of this verse:
Then you will know the truth,
and the truth will set you free
John 8:32
and they said and knew:
We have come to believe
and to know
that you are the Holy One of God.
John 6:69
They believed Jesus's Words,
miracles,
compassion,
love,
His character,
His holiness,
that He was the source of life
His friendship
His Lordship
etc.
Jumping ahead for a moment, further on Jesus says to God the Father:
Righteous Father,
though the world does not know you,
I know you,
and they know
that you have sent me
John 17:25
They had been trained, by God ( the Son)
Himself, the best 'teacher' there ever was
or ever will be.
Who would need a PHD if you had the Lord for your teacher!
So they knew.
It seems to me, that even while He is praying,
this prayer, to God the Father,
He is also, in a way, still teaching the disciples.
Sometimes, I have heard people say
Oh I can't 'bother' God
with my little problems or whatever.
But actually God says:
[u]Cast your burden on the Lord[/u],
and he will sustain you;
he will never permit
the righteous to be moved
Psalms 55:22[/font]
and
casting all your anxieties on him,
because he cares for you
1 Peter 5:7
But Jesus did pray about Himself to the Father
and then...
those closest to Him
( as we are seeing now)
And later on, for others.
Done for Today.
[/font comic sans MS][/font][/b]
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John 17
Jan 28, 2022 10:15:04 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by evafromgreece on Jan 28, 2022 10:15:04 GMT -5
Your's is very good! You kind of got what I was going to say : This next verse is a definition of eternal life!
“Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.” (John 17:3)
Eternal life is a Person, Jesus Christ. Eternal Life should be capitalized because it's another name for Jesus. The Bible documents this in 1 John 1:1-2. “That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched—this we proclaim concerning the Word of life. The life appeared; we have seen it and testify to it, and we proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and has appeared to us.” (1 John 1:1–2)
This passage reveals that Christ & Eternal Life are one & the same. “Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.” (John 14:6) In other words, "I am...the life" And "In Him was life" (John 1:4). "When Christ, who is our life, appears ..." (Col 3:4). So Eternal Life is a person, Jesus Christ. When you came to Jesus, He did not "come into your life"; He exchanged His powerful, obedient life, for your old rebellious, independent, self-serving life. Jesus Christ is our life,
“And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life.” (1 John 5:11–12)
“We know also that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true. And we are in him who is true—even in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.” (1 John 5:20)
John Ankerberg says, One Person alone has lived an overcoming life on earth: Jesus Christ. That one Person said, "I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me, and I in him, he bears much fruit; for apart from Me you can do nothing" (John 15:5). Christ is the vine in this metaphor; we Christians are the branches. Branches have no independent life. Branches "live and move and have their being" by the life of the vine. So long as branches abide (draw their life from the vine), they experience a fruitful existence. Notice that Jesus says branches "bear" fruit. That’s because branches never produce fruit; branches bear the fruit that is produced by the life of the vine through them. Should they try to live independently, they will die. Without vine life, they "can do nothing." Jesus said that without His life flowing through us, we are impotent, powerless. What if our salvation encompasses a new kind of life in addition to the forgiveness of sins? What if eternal life is not a mere extension of our old life, but a literal, new life? What if eternal life is actually the life of Christ? What if the Spirit of Christ who indwells us is intended to express life through us? What if it is His life through us that gives us power over the world, our own flesh, and the devil? If this were the case & a Christian husband understood how to let Christ live through him to minister agape love to his wife, would this make a huge difference in their marriage? Would Christ through him treat his wife like a precious gift from God? Would the fruit of the Spirit begin to become evident in this man behind the closed doors of his home as well as publicly? That’s a no-brainer. Christ living through this man would radically change his behavior for the better. Folks would want to find out more about the secret to such power.
When you came to Jesus, He did not "come into your life"; He exchanged His powerful, obedient life, for your old rebellious, independent, self-serving life. Jesus Christ is our life, folks, and we have the glorious privilege of cooperating with Him by trusting Him to express His life through us on earth. What a magnificent difference that makes!
Hello! I am here. I read up to this post. Please slow down a bit so I can catch up and post my comments on the above. |
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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John 17
Jan 28, 2022 11:59:47 GMT -5
Post by fearnot on Jan 28, 2022 11:59:47 GMT -5
I will wait until Monday....would that be long enough? If not let me know okay.
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John 17
Jan 29, 2022 10:30:18 GMT -5
Post by Cindy on Jan 29, 2022 10:30:18 GMT -5
I'll wait too hon.
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John 17
Jan 29, 2022 14:59:44 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by evafromgreece on Jan 29, 2022 14:59:44 GMT -5
1Αφού τα είπε αυτά ο Ιησούς, σήκωσε τα μάτια του στον ουρανό και είπε: «Πατέρα, έφτασε η ώρα· φανέρωσε τη δόξα του Υιού σου, ώστε κι ο Υιός σου να φανερώσει τη δική σου δόξα. 2Εσύ του έδωσες εξουσία πάνω σε όλους τους ανθρώπους· έτσι κι αυτός θα δώσει την αιώνια ζωή σε όλους αυτούς που του εμπιστεύτηκες. 3Και να ποια είναι η αιώνια ζωή: Ν’ αναγνωρίζουν οι άνθρωποι εσένα ως τον μόνο αληθινό Θεό, καθώς κι εκείνον που έστειλες, τον Ιησού Χριστό. 4Εγώ φανέρωσα τη δόξα σου πάνω στη γη, αφού ολοκλήρωσα το έργο που μου ανέθεσες να κάνω. 5Τώρα λοιπόν εσύ, Πατέρα, δόξασέ με κοντά σ’ εσένα με τη δόξα που είχα κοντά σου προτού να γίνει ο κόσμος.
6»Εγώ σε έκανα γνωστό στους ανθρώπους που τους πήρες μέσα από τον κόσμο και μου τους εμπιστεύτηκες. Ανήκαν σ’ εσένα, κι εσύ τους έδωσες σ’ εμένα, κι έχουν δεχτεί το λόγο σου. 7Αυτοί τώρα ξέρουν πως όλα όσα μου έδωσες προέρχονται από σένα·
Hello
Since I am a bit confused from the above I will post what I see from the first 7 verses. I posted above the Greek text because I don't have my Bible at the hospital as I explained in a message, and it helps me to see the Greek text also.
In the first 2 verses Jesus says in His prayer that the time has come. It's time to defeat death once and for all in the cross. I think when He says that He will reveal the glory of the Father means that He will free humanity from sin with His death. Jesus as a human had His power given to Him from the Father, that was Father's holy plan in order to save humanity from death and give us eternal life. And Jesus is the eternal life and to see the Lord as the one and only God is the eternal life.
I saw that both you mentioned above that Jesus is the tree and we are the branches and no branch can live without the tree. I want to mention also because He says that eternal life is to recognize the Father as the one and only true God, I believe He mentioned there that there might be idols that lead humans away from eternal life and this danger might be a part of His prayer to protect us from idols (all kind of idols and modern times idols).
4. Jesus by His works on Earth revealed God and it was time to go back in Heaven were He was before our existence.
And He revealed God to people the Lord new from long before and that they belonged to Him. I believe in 6 it talks also about election. How the disciples were elected to follow Him and be a part of His plan
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John 17
Jan 31, 2022 12:27:35 GMT -5
Post by Cindy on Jan 31, 2022 12:27:35 GMT -5
1Αφού τα είπε αυτά ο Ιησούς, σήκωσε τα μάτια του στον ουρανό και είπε: «Πατέρα, έφτασε η ώρα· φανέρωσε τη δόξα του Υιού σου, ώστε κι ο Υιός σου να φανερώσει τη δική σου δόξα. 2Εσύ του έδωσες εξουσία πάνω σε όλους τους ανθρώπους· έτσι κι αυτός θα δώσει την αιώνια ζωή σε όλους αυτούς που του εμπιστεύτηκες. 3Και να ποια είναι η αιώνια ζωή: Ν’ αναγνωρίζουν οι άνθρωποι εσένα ως τον μόνο αληθινό Θεό, καθώς κι εκείνον που έστειλες, τον Ιησού Χριστό. 4Εγώ φανέρωσα τη δόξα σου πάνω στη γη, αφού ολοκλήρωσα το έργο που μου ανέθεσες να κάνω. 5Τώρα λοιπόν εσύ, Πατέρα, δόξασέ με κοντά σ’ εσένα με τη δόξα που είχα κοντά σου προτού να γίνει ο κόσμος. 6»Εγώ σε έκανα γνωστό στους ανθρώπους που τους πήρες μέσα από τον κόσμο και μου τους εμπιστεύτηκες. Ανήκαν σ’ εσένα, κι εσύ τους έδωσες σ’ εμένα, κι έχουν δεχτεί το λόγο σου. 7Αυτοί τώρα ξέρουν πως όλα όσα μου έδωσες προέρχονται από σένα· Hello Since I am a bit confused from the above I will post what I see from the first 7 verses. I posted above the Greek text because I don't have my Bible at the hospital as I explained in a message, and it helps me to see the Greek text also. In the first 2 verses Jesus says in His prayer that the time has come. It's time to defeat death once and for all in the cross. I think when He says that He will reveal the glory of the Father means that He will free humanity from sin with His death. Jesus as a human had His power given to Him from the Father, that was Father's holy plan in order to save humanity from death and give us eternal life. And Jesus is the eternal life and to see the Lord as the one and only God is the eternal life. I saw that both you mentioned above that Jesus is the tree and we are the branches and no branch can live without the tree. I want to mention also because He says that eternal life is to recognize the Father as the one and only true God, I believe He mentioned there that there might be idols that lead humans away from eternal life and this danger might be a part of His prayer to protect us from idols (all kind of idols and modern times idols). 4. Jesus by His works on Earth revealed God and it was time to go back in Heaven were He was before our existence. And He revealed God to people the Lord new from long before and that they belonged to Him. I believe in 6 it talks also about election. How the disciples were elected to follow Him and be a part of His plan
The only thing I'm not sure about is that it sounds to me like you think that predestination and election is about God knowing what would happen before hand. But that's not true. Many people make this mistake because of how this scripture is worded: “For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.” (Romans 8:29) Let me share how MacArthur explaines the word "foreknew": Foreknew is not a reference simply to God’s omniscience—that in eternity past He knew who would come to Christ. Rather, it speaks of a predetermined choice to set His love on us and established an intimate relationship—or His election. The word "predestined" is literally “to mark out, appoint, or determine beforehand.” Those God chooses, He destines for His chosen end—that is, likeness to His Son.
If I misunderstood what you are saying, I apologize. I hope this helps make things clear though.
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John 17
Feb 4, 2022 12:41:36 GMT -5
Post by evafromgreece on Feb 4, 2022 12:41:36 GMT -5
1Αφού τα είπε αυτά ο Ιησούς, σήκωσε τα μάτια του στον ουρανό και είπε: «Πατέρα, έφτασε η ώρα· φανέρωσε τη δόξα του Υιού σου, ώστε κι ο Υιός σου να φανερώσει τη δική σου δόξα. 2Εσύ του έδωσες εξουσία πάνω σε όλους τους ανθρώπους· έτσι κι αυτός θα δώσει την αιώνια ζωή σε όλους αυτούς που του εμπιστεύτηκες. 3Και να ποια είναι η αιώνια ζωή: Ν’ αναγνωρίζουν οι άνθρωποι εσένα ως τον μόνο αληθινό Θεό, καθώς κι εκείνον που έστειλες, τον Ιησού Χριστό. 4Εγώ φανέρωσα τη δόξα σου πάνω στη γη, αφού ολοκλήρωσα το έργο που μου ανέθεσες να κάνω. 5Τώρα λοιπόν εσύ, Πατέρα, δόξασέ με κοντά σ’ εσένα με τη δόξα που είχα κοντά σου προτού να γίνει ο κόσμος. 6»Εγώ σε έκανα γνωστό στους ανθρώπους που τους πήρες μέσα από τον κόσμο και μου τους εμπιστεύτηκες. Ανήκαν σ’ εσένα, κι εσύ τους έδωσες σ’ εμένα, κι έχουν δεχτεί το λόγο σου. 7Αυτοί τώρα ξέρουν πως όλα όσα μου έδωσες προέρχονται από σένα· Hello Since I am a bit confused from the above I will post what I see from the first 7 verses. I posted above the Greek text because I don't have my Bible at the hospital as I explained in a message, and it helps me to see the Greek text also. In the first 2 verses Jesus says in His prayer that the time has come. It's time to defeat death once and for all in the cross. I think when He says that He will reveal the glory of the Father means that He will free humanity from sin with His death. Jesus as a human had His power given to Him from the Father, that was Father's holy plan in order to save humanity from death and give us eternal life. And Jesus is the eternal life and to see the Lord as the one and only God is the eternal life. I saw that both you mentioned above that Jesus is the tree and we are the branches and no branch can live without the tree. I want to mention also because He says that eternal life is to recognize the Father as the one and only true God, I believe He mentioned there that there might be idols that lead humans away from eternal life and this danger might be a part of His prayer to protect us from idols (all kind of idols and modern times idols). 4. Jesus by His works on Earth revealed God and it was time to go back in Heaven were He was before our existence. And He revealed God to people the Lord new from long before and that they belonged to Him. I believe in 6 it talks also about election. How the disciples were elected to follow Him and be a part of His plan
The only thing I'm not sure about is that it sounds to me like you think that predestination and election is about God knowing what would happen before hand. But that's not true. Many people make this mistake because of how this scripture is worded: “For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.” (Romans 8:29) Let me share how MacArthur explaines the word "foreknew": Foreknew is not a reference simply to God’s omniscience—that in eternity past He knew who would come to Christ. Rather, it speaks of a predetermined choice to set His love on us and established an intimate relationship—or His election. The word "predestined" is literally “to mark out, appoint, or determine beforehand.” Those God chooses, He destines for His chosen end—that is, likeness to His Son.
If I misunderstood what you are saying, I apologize. I hope this helps make things clear though.
Hello! I am a bit confused now. Isn’t it both? I mean God knows what will happen before hand but at the same time He chose His people? |
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: This next verse is a definition of eternal life! 
