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John 17
Feb 22, 2022 11:58:41 GMT -5
Post by Cindy on Feb 22, 2022 11:58:41 GMT -5
That story is so much like the one we have about our place here in Seaside.....the very day we had to be out ( the landlord was going to tear down and build an office building in the place where we were staying)
We saw a place in Seaside, ( we had to be out in just an hour or two)
we called but the manager was not very optimistic we could get it
turns out someone wanted the little cottage/hut and was coming soon.
But we said we would take it sight unseen and come from Beaverton that day and pay and move in....
it wasn't sure we would get it tho,
the guy who wanted it was already in Seaside so he could get there way before us.
(That has actually happened more than once in our lives. However, it often is God provides for us at the last moment, when there is absolutely NO chance that we could find a place!
So it is only by His arrangement that it happens).
It turned out, the guy who was going to take the place here in Seaside, had in fact, gotten there before us, but decided not to take it after all...
I forget why... maybe too small and not modern enough etc.
oh and the small part that was carpeted, had a stain on it....
So when we turned up, we got it.
Then a few years later we moved to the one hut with a small little bit of land so I could plant....it had been the manager's but she moved.
I was thinking about the unity Jesus talked about. I do not think He meant every church would be an exact cookie cutter clone of each other.
When I was a child, my adopted parents took me for a short time to a staid straitlaced New England congregational church,
very different in 'style'
from the Oregon coast Baptist church we attend today.
I do not see that New England church having a Baptismal inside the church,or the pastor never ever once crack any kind of joke etc.
( I am not referring to the apostate church where it is all entertainment, but rather a pastor who will sometimes say something funny)
However, both churches read the same Bible,
and the pastors preach on the same word of God,
the Christians all fellow-shipped with each other in love,
and grew in Christ likeness.
I am thinking its that kind of unity....standing on the Word of God, honoring Jesus as Lord and savior, etc. is the unity Jesus was speaking of.
But I've got to tell you that what you think of as a staid straitlaced New England congregational church is pretty rare in our time. In fact, I've never seen one lol. I've gone to several though and know people who go to others, and each one was totally different from the others. The only similarity was that it was governed by the congregation and not a "bishop" or someone else. And yes, all the churches had a baptismal, or got one as soon as they could afford one. But many also baptize at a lake, pond, or even in the ocean when they can.
I remember when I was young and I attended the Episcopal church. I loved going to that church. Since they use a book called "The book of Common Prayer" during their services, so everyone can follow along and participate, you'd think all the churches would be identical, but even they're different. In one church I went to, the pastor sung the parts of the service that other churches simply spoke. That was kind of neat. They also have some flexibility in the services so that makes another difference. But mostly I'd say it's the atmosphere in the churches. Looking back, I can now see that certain ones definitely had many believers, including the pastor, whereas others didn't. Oh yeah and there were also "High" services, which are very much like the high catholic ones, or so I'm told. I only got to see that in a beautiful church in Tucson though.
But the same is very true of all the other churches. Churches of the same denomination can be very different from each other. Sadly, these days most churches no matter what kind they are, have some degree of false teaching. In fact, I'd say that today a majority have more false teaching then truth. That's why there's so much disunity. God never tells us or wants us to be unified with false teaching or with unbelievers. As MacArthur himself said, probably 80% of the people who go to church regularly today are unbelievers and not saved at all. That's pretty frightening! But again, that's why there's so much disunity today and why there's a lack of love and true fellowship today. It's why there's churches that have so called modern Christian worship songs instead of hymns, especially those songs that are written by false teachers and often say something false. (like Hillsong, Bethel, etc) I'm afraid this situation is only going to get worse until Jesus comes for us.
Anyway, just to go along with what you said about unity, let me share what MacArthur says about it.
Ephesians 4:4–6 In this passage, Paul lists the particular areas of oneness, or unity: body, Spirit, hope, Lord, faith, baptism, and God and Father. He focuses on the Trinity—the Spirit in verse 4, the Son in verse 5, and the Father in verse 6. His point is not to distinguish between the persons of the Godhead but to emphasize that, although they have unique roles, they are completely unified in every aspect of the divine nature and plan.
one body. The church, the body of Christ, is composed of every believer since Pentecost (Acts 1; 2) without distinction, by the work of the “one Spirit” (see 1 Cor. 12:11–13).
one hope. This is the pledge and promise of eternal inheritance given to each believer (1:11–14) and sealed to each believer by the one Spirit (Ephesians 1:13).
one Lord. See Acts 4:12; Romans 10:12; Galatians 1:8.
one faith. The body of doctrine revealed in the NT (cf. Jude 3).
one baptism. This probably refers to the water baptism following salvation, a believer’s public confession of faith in Jesus Christ. Spiritual baptism, by which all believers are placed into the body of Christ (1 Cor. 12:11–13) is implied in Ephesians 4:4.
one God. This is the basic doctrine of God taught in Scripture (see Deut. 4:35; 6:4; 32:39; Is. 45:14; 46:9; 1 Cor. 8:4–6).
The MacArthur Bible Commentary |
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383 
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John 17
Feb 22, 2022 12:29:09 GMT -5
Post by fearnot on Feb 22, 2022 12:29:09 GMT -5
LOL well the staid straitlaced New England congregational church I went to would have been in 1951....so it was 'awhile' ago :)
and things have changed.....
mostly not for the better,
but in some ways yes.
So really? The congregational churches a baptismal? I only have ever been to the one in Mystic and it did not....so I just assumed, only Baptists had baptismals.
I do not recall seeing them in any of the other churches I have been to in my life.....I have been to many like Lutheran, Episcopal, E V free, etc.
On the other hand, come to think of it....
ours it not readily seen,
unless someone is going to be baptized...
( I have not gone and inspected carefully),
but maybe there is a pull down 'door' type thingy,
that gets opened for baptisms?
Now I am going to be creeping around next Sunday in order to see how it works LOLOL
And we were baptized there...but I was not thinking about how....
now you see it,
now you don't
hummmmm?
Again....
Thank you so much for the added info, that was great! It really explained in more detail in what ways unity is found in the church.
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John 17
Feb 22, 2022 17:55:38 GMT -5
Post by evafromgreece on Feb 22, 2022 17:55:38 GMT -5
I have 2 questions on this but they are partly related to these verses. Maybe I have mentioned before that my family used to attend some churched that denied the Trinity. That led me in the first years to be confused because I heard so many theories and so many false teachings as a child. Now… I cannot even understand their claims. And I didn’t even remember them for sure. But I cannot understand how, for something that obvious that is mentioned clearly so many times in the bible there are… theories… Cindy you mentioned this ”Because it's through knowing and applying God's Word, loving His Word, that our love for God increases and our love for others increases. It's through knowing and applying His word that we grow in love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self control. The unsaved see this and want what we have.” And I saw many times you referred that the unsaved want what we have. But do they? Do they or they are becoming enemies because we are not like them and we are different from the world? It’s good to be different and to have the Holy Spirit changing you. But I don’t think that the unbelievers would like that , except of the ones that are going to be saved eventually.
And that's a good picture of who unbelievers act. There are some who will see our life and want what we have, and they may act on that. Others will act hatefully toward us, just as Jesus said they would. So it's in general only those who are elect that will want what we have. But seriously, even if no one ever wanted what we have in our life, we still must live our life as an example to others of what being a Christian is all about.
Yes I understand what you mean
You mentioned the trinity, but I couldn't tell if you had a question about it or not... I hope I answered your question, but really you answered it yourself lol
Actually it was mostly a comment and not really a question
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John 17
Feb 23, 2022 11:20:29 GMT -5
Post by Cindy on Feb 23, 2022 11:20:29 GMT -5
LOL well the staid straitlaced New England congregational church I went to would have been in 1951....so it was 'awhile' ago :)
and things have changed.....
mostly not for the better,
but in some ways yes.
So really? The congregational churches a baptismal? I only have ever been to the one in Mystic and it did not....so I just assumed, only Baptists had baptismals.
I do not recall seeing them in any of the other churches I have been to in my life.....I have been to many like Lutheran, Episcopal, E V free, etc.
On the other hand, come to think of it....
ours it not readily seen,
unless someone is going to be baptized...
( I have not gone and inspected carefully),
but maybe there is a pull down 'door' type thingy,
that gets opened for baptisms?
Now I am going to be creeping around next Sunday in order to see how it works LOLOL
And we were baptized there...but I was not thinking about how....
now you see it,
now you don't
hummmmm?
Again....
Thank you so much for the added info, that was great! It really explained in more detail in what ways unity is found in the church.
Yes, What I should have said is that those the Father has called and chosen, the people who will one day be saved, will want what we have because of what they see in our lives. However, that doesn't mean that the people who don't respond by wanting what we have won't ever be saved. Each will be saved at the perfect time for them, not when we think they should be. For example, in all the years of being an adult, from age 18 until about age 40, I only met couple that lived their faith and who tried to show me the love of Christ. Instead of listening though, I made fun of them. (even though deep inside something was drawing me to them). It wound up taking many more years before I was finally truly saved.
And that's a good picture of who unbelievers act. There are some who will see our life and want what we have, and they may act on that. Others will act hatefully toward us, just as Jesus said they would. So it's in general only those who are elect that will want what we have. But seriously, even if no one ever wanted what we have in our life, we still must live our life as an example to others of what being a Christian is all about.
Yes I understand what you mean
You mentioned the trinity, but I couldn't tell if you had a question about it or not... I hope I answered your question, but really you answered it yourself lol
Actually it was mostly a comment and not really a question
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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John 17
Feb 23, 2022 15:18:30 GMT -5
Post by fearnot on Feb 23, 2022 15:18:30 GMT -5
Finally, a new verse! Sorry, I have just been having so much lack of sleep,
this past week or 10 days, or something....
I am just going to give it a go, post some more on this Bible study,
and pray, I don't mess up,
but I can count on you to set me straight, if I get off track :)
And also to add more information,
or ask questions etc.
The glory that you have given me
I have given to them,
that they may be one even as we are one
John 17:22
A couple of things jump out...
like.... what does Jesus mean exactly,
that He is giving His believers
glory?
Well Jesus says.... it is His glory!
After all, He does live in our hearts.
6 For God, who said,
“Let light shine out of darkness,”
made his light shine in our hearts
to give us the light of the knowledge of God’s glory
displayed in the face of Christ.
7 But we have this treasure
in jars of clay
to show that this all-surpassing power is from God
and not from us.
2 Corinthians 4:6,7
And there is this verse:
Now if we are children, then we are heirs—
heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ,
if indeed we share in his sufferings
in order that we may also share in his glory.
Romans 8:17
And a second thing that stood out for me,
was believers will share in some manner, in he unity
of the tribune God ( Father, Son and Spirit).
There is this:
27 Now you are the body of Christ,
and each one of you is a part of it.
1 Corinthians 12:27
This is not to say, we will become 'gods',
that is absolutely impossible!
Rather we will share in love,
obedience to God's plans and purposes,
loving His Lordship etc.
But the third thing that speaks volumes,
is that God the Father and God the Son,
are one God.
As Jesus said elsewhere in John
I and the Father are one.”
John 10:30
And
For in Him ( Jesus) all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form
Colossians 2:9
I know this is a 'tad' short, but its a start.
I keep falling asleep again....so that makes me leery to go on further today
Done for today.
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John 17
Feb 24, 2022 17:22:21 GMT -5
Post by evafromgreece on Feb 24, 2022 17:22:21 GMT -5
Good one Barbara!
We are sanctified by God's spirit and His Word. As we study it and learn more about Him, our love for Him grows as well as our knowledge. What's crucial to know is that every time we ignore the Spirit's promptings, our hearts are hardened a little bit, until eventually, if we continue to ignore Him, we won't hear Him any more. Doing that is one of the things that will "grieve the Holy Spirit. The other thing that grieves Him is when we disobey the Word. This next scripture is command and not a suggestion, for a very good reason: “And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.” (Ephesians 4:30)
And of course, we aren't living sanctified lives when we refuse to listen to the Holy Spirit or refuse to obey God's Word. Looking back on my life now, I can easily see the way the Lord disciplined me for not obeying His Word. I could have avoided many bad experiences in my life if I had simply obeyed God instead of trying to live the way my mother did. I'm amazed that I didn't get it then...that I didn't put 2 + 2 together and realize that the Lord was disciplining me. And He continued to do so until the moment I turned back to Him and repented of my sins. (Hebrews 12:5–11)
It's also true that the more we obey Him (or try to obey) the more sanctified we become; the more we grow in our faith. And each time we obey, we'll be able to hear Him a little better the next time, until eventually we have no problem at all hearing Him. There's very real danger in this world, but God will protect us from it, IF we are abiding in His Word and obeying it. Otherwise, He generally allows us to get caught by the danger, in order to turn us back to Him. If people realized how much God does for us when we spend plenty of time in His Word every day, they would all have their Bibles with them constantly and be reading them every second they could. Most of us are very familiar with this verse, and yet we ignore it to our peril: “Jesus answered, “It is written: ‘Man does not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.’”” (Matthew 4:4) God's Word, the Bible, is our spiritual food that strengthens our new nature that we were given at salvation, and causes us to grow in our faith. Yet most people only nibble at God's Word. They literally are spiritually starving themselves to death. They're the ones that think spending 5 to 15 minutes a day in God's Word is all they need to do. My heart breaks for them because they're only hurting themselves. It's kind of ironic too because people like that will often say they don't have any more time they can spend in the Bible, yet they still spend hours watching TV, or being online, or reading fiction books, etc. They don't seem to realize that what they spend the most time doing is what they have made the most important in their lives; they make it first in their lives. But God tells us that we are to make Him first in our lives. Many people say they do, but very few actually do it. 
I also really needed to read this one ! |
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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John 17
Feb 25, 2022 12:59:54 GMT -5
Post by fearnot on Feb 25, 2022 12:59:54 GMT -5
I really liked the way you phrased this when you wrote:
"Yet most people only nibble at God's Word. They literally are spiritually starving themselves to death".
It made me think that the 'nibblers' were on a severe avoid the Bible diet, and/or anorexic.
Tho they might be saved, when trials come, they have no strength, no guidance, no comfort etc. and so life is a LOT harder, than it would be if they were well fed on God's Word, the Bible.
The trials will come irregardless, but the ability to go thru them, ( never mind even going thru them for God's glory),
will be so much harder to bear.
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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John 17
Feb 25, 2022 13:46:14 GMT -5
Post by fearnot on Feb 25, 2022 13:46:14 GMT -5
I in them and You in Me, that they may be perfected in unity,
so that the world may know that You sent Me,
and loved them, even as You have loved Me.
John 17:23
Here Jesus requests a second time, for unity.
And the reason is the same one He has stated previously,
namely, that the world may know,
God the Father sent Him,
and loves Him,
( and the Father loves the believers.)
To me, the operative word, is 'love'.
The main goal and purpose is love.
I am reminded of this most famous verse;
For God so loved the world,
that He gave His only begotten Son,
that whoever believes in Him
shall not perish, but have eternal life.
John 3:16
Also
For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels,
nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come,
nor powers,
39 nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing,
will be able to separate us from the love of God,
which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 8:38-39
and
4 Abide in Me, and I in you.
As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself unless it abides in the vine,
so neither can you unless you abide in Me.
John 15:4
Then also, there is the conviction of the world of unbelievers,
that proves, that this unity, is of God,
Also the result of this unity for the believers,
is being perfected.
For I am confident of this very thing,
that He who began a good work in you
will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus
Philippians 1:6
Being perfected, being sanctified is critical for the world to see
the power and love of God.
When believers are living in sin, looking and acting like hypocrites,
there is no encouragement to become Christians.
However we need God and His word in us,
because on our own, we can do nothing,
truly good or godly.
5 I am the vine, you are the branches;
he who abides in Me and I in him,
he bears much fruit,
for apart from Me you can do nothing.
John 15:5
Done for today.
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John 17
Feb 26, 2022 14:10:54 GMT -5
Post by evafromgreece on Feb 26, 2022 14:10:54 GMT -5
I know what you mean Barbara. I have a similar problem of not sleeping at night or not getting enough sleep at night. You should see what my face looks like without my glasses on! It's the first time in my life that I've been thankful that I wear glasses, because I have big dark circles under my eyes that won't go away. You're lucky that you can at least sleep during the daytime. I can't do that for some reason. The few times I have slept during the day, I was pretty sick, so Bruce knows that if it happens it's a warning signal.
It's just as well you didn't post here anyway as we need to wait for Eva to post. I do want to add something I've been thinking about, and that Eva had commented on too. I wanted to share something one of my commentaries said that I think you'll like.
Like Jesus, the Apostles took time for individuals. The best defense of the truth of the Christian faith is a changed life. The healed beggar was “Exhibit A” in Peter’s defense of the resurrection of Jesus Christ. The Methodist preacher Samuel Chadwick used to pray for “a Lazarus” in every campaign, some “great sinner” whose conversion would shock the community. He got the idea from John 12:9–11. “Meanwhile a large crowd of Jews found out that Jesus was there and came, not only because of him but also to see Lazarus, whom he had raised from the dead. So the chief priests made plans to kill Lazarus as well, for on account of him many of the Jews were going over to Jesus and putting their faith in him.” (John 12:9–11)
God answered his prayers in meeting after meeting as infamous wicked men trusted Christ and became witnesses through their changed lives. Let’s go after the “hard cases” and see what God can do! God has promised to bless and use His Word, so let’s be faithful to witness. Jesus even prayed that our witness would have success (John 17:20), so we have every reason to be encouraged. There is power in the name of Jesus, so we need not fear to witness and call sinners to repent. The Bible exposition commentary
To say that the unsaved will see our life and want what we have, is very true, even those who never accept Jesus. Who doesn't want peace instead of worry, stress and anxiety? A Christian that is living their faith and is somewhat mature will have that peace. When financial troubles come along, they won't panic. In fact it reminds me of a verse: “He will have no fear of bad news; his heart is steadfast, trusting in the LORD.” (Psalm 112:7)
It reminds me of what happened to me many years ago. Due to my ex-husband's mishandling our money, our house was in foreclosure. My best friend was scared to death that I wouldn't be able to find any place to live before the bank took our house, but I was at peace and kept telling her it would be all right because the Lord would find us a place to stay in His time, not ours. This went on for a month, then, just two days before the bank took our house and we would be out on the street, I saw an ad for an apartment and went to see it. It was the only place in our town that was asking for an amount that I could actually afford! Everyone I had talked to had said that no place in our town would rent for that low of a price, but this one man did! When I got saw the apartment I told the man I wanted it. He said another person was coming to see it and he would give it to whoever gave him the money first. I wasn't worried because I knew God had shown it to me because it was where He wanted me to live. So I went to the bank, got the money in cash and brought it back to the man. I think I was only gone maybe 15 minutes. The other person was there when I came in with the money. I simply apologized to them and handed him the money and the apartment was mine. We moved in with one day to spare! My friend told me later that she had been amazed at how calm and peaceful I was about finding a place to live and asked me why I wasn't anxious and worried. I told her it was because of Jesus, and knowing that I could count on the Lord. She's saved and has told others this story a number of times too.
What that taught me was that we never know who's watching or listening to us, and who may be affected by the things we do or say.
Hello ! I read the above story and the story of Barbara next (wasn’t sure how to quote both), and.. Actually I am thinking that I dont have that much faith that everything will turn out good, even though I know that God is in control. Only when I see the results eventually I say that was because of God, but I have short memory and then worry again. I wasn’t that way some years ago. I had more faith but after the events that happened in my life that I have told you about in private, I have difficulty to trust, its like always waiting for a battle or for something bad to happen and that I have to fight. I am not calm. And that’s one of the things that needs to get fixed. I mostly feel like a person who has been in chains and beaten for years and suddenly was set free but does not know any other way than to be waiting for the next attack. I have the knowledge, but yet I dont feel calm, I cannot fully experience this. And it is sad |
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John 17
Feb 26, 2022 14:23:07 GMT -5
Post by evafromgreece on Feb 26, 2022 14:23:07 GMT -5
Can you give an example of this, if possible?
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John 17
Feb 27, 2022 11:50:56 GMT -5
Post by Cindy on Feb 27, 2022 11:50:56 GMT -5
I really liked the way you phrased this when you wrote:
"Yet most people only nibble at God's Word. They literally are spiritually starving themselves to death".
It made me think that the 'nibblers' were on a severe avoid the Bible diet, and/or anorexic.
Tho they might be saved, when trials come, they have no strength, no guidance, no comfort etc. and so life is a LOT harder, than it would be if they were well fed on God's Word, the Bible.
The trials will come irregardless, but the ability to go thru them, ( never mind even going thru them for God's glory),
will be so much harder to bear.
And that’s one of the things that needs to get fixed. I mostly feel like a person who has been in chains and beaten for years and suddenly was set free but does not know any other way than to be waiting for the next attack. I have the knowledge, but yet I dont feel calm, I cannot fully experience this. And it is sad
Everything that happens is because of God. It is either because of His perfect will, or because of his permissive will. It's His permissive will when He finally allows us to reap the consequences of something we've been doing that doesn't glorify Him. (often it's sin). You woke up this morning didn't you. That's because God sustained you: “I lie down and sleep; I wake again, because the LORD sustains me.” (Psalm 3:5) You waking up wasn't an accident. The people you saw today, you saw because God ordained it. The people you work with are there because God ordained it. There are many examples in the Bible of this. Many people who have been abused have trouble trusting. They overcome that trouble by learning more about Jesus and how much He loves them. When they finally really understand that, then they're able to trust Him. Don't worry about where you are now, just commit to spending time with the Lord in your Bible and in prayer, and you will grow in your faith. if you want to grow faster, spend more time with the Lord in His Word and in prayer. It's really as simple as that. But be at peace with where you are now because it's not up to you how things happen, it's up to the Lord. See, and unbeliever can spend 20 hours a day reading the Bible and not get saved and not grow (obviously lol). We can't make God do anything. He is the one that's in control, not us. We have to cooperate with Him. Eventually you will experience this IF you do these things daily. Can you give an example of this, if possible?
fresh-hope.com/thread/4686/dangerous-cult-hillsong
fresh-hope.com/thread/6266/bill-johnson-bethel-hillsong
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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John 17
Feb 28, 2022 12:11:12 GMT -5
Post by fearnot on Feb 28, 2022 12:11:12 GMT -5
Father, I desire that they also, whom You have given Me,
be with Me where I am, so that they may see My glory
which You have given Me,
for You loved Me before the foundation of the world.
John 17:24
It is not surprising we believers want to be with Jesus in Heaven,
but it can be sometimes startling,
how much He want us to be there with Him,
and so...
Jesus now asks,
a final request in this prayer:
That all believers will one day be with Him in Heaven.
You will make known to me the path of life;
In Your presence is fullness of joy;
In Your right hand there are pleasures forever.
Psalms 16:11
When believer's die, the pastor might speak of the 'dearly departed'
but a more accurate description might rather be...
the 'dearly arrived' in Heaven.
we are of good courage I say,
and prefer rather
to be absent from the body
and to be at home with the Lord.
2 Corinthians 5:8
Also
I am hard-pressed from both directions
having the desire to depart and be with Christ,
for that is very much better.
Phil. 1:23
We long for this:
.....And I will dwell in the house of the Lord forever.
Psalms 23:6
Plus
If you have been raised up with Christ,
keep seeking the things above where Christ is
seated at the right hand of God.
Col. 3:1
The absolute greatest thing about Heaven is:
that is where Jesus is,
the one who loves us infinitely and eternally!
The Son and the Father's will were the same:
For it was fitting for Him,
for whom are all things, and through whom are all things,
in bringing many sons to glory,
to perfect the author of their salvation through sufferings
Hebrews 2:10
To see Jesus 'glory' as God, and our Savior,
but also:
When Christ, who is our life, is revealed,
then you also will be revealed with Him in glory.
Colossians 3:4
And
Beloved, now we are children of God,
and it has not appeared as yet what we will be.
We know that when He appears,
we will be like Him.
1 John 3:2
And by seeing Jesus's glory,
it shows how much the Father loved and loves Him.
and behold, a voice out of the heavens said,
“This is My beloved Son,
in whom I am well-pleased.
Matthew 3:17
Glory and Love what a joy to look forward to in Heaven!
Done for Today
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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John 17
Mar 1, 2022 15:56:57 GMT -5
Post by fearnot on Mar 1, 2022 15:56:57 GMT -5
25 “O righteous Father, although the world has not known You,
yet I have known You;
and these have known that You sent Me;
26 and I have made Your name known to them,
and will make it known,
so that the love with which You loved Me may be in them,
and I in them.”
John 17:25,26
Jesus says, that the 'world'
back then,
did not know,
God, the Father....
the same holds true, and remains true,
to this very day!
However, Jesus also says, that He, Jesus,
has made known,
God the Father, to the disciples
( and to all future believers)
and that,
the Father sent Jesus, God the Son.
Jesus knows the character, will, purpose, nature, justice etc. of God,
but above all of those,
is the fact, there
is the tender, merciful love of God.
The love of God the Father, for God the Son.
And God loves the believers,
and that love may be in them.
36 “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?”
37 And He said to him,
“‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart,
and with all your soul,
and with all your mind.’
38 This is the great and foremost commandment.
39 The second is like it,
‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’
Matthew 22:36-39
And knowing this we can have peace
These things I have spoken to you,
so that in Me you may have peace.
In the world you have tribulation,
but take courage; I have overcome the world.”
John 16:33
In the world there are many many tribulations,
but...
there is, more importantly,
above all else:
a God of love,
and
that Jesus overcame the world.
If we look only
at the world, and its troubles,
we are going to see:
pain, trouble, wars,
plagues, and all manner of tribulations....
and therefore discouragement, and depression, can win the day....
but in God's word, prayer,
and knowing, our Savior ( Jesus) has overcome:
the devil, ( Satan)
the world,
and death itself...
We can have peace.
Done for Today
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John 17
Mar 2, 2022 10:38:37 GMT -5
Post by Cindy on Mar 2, 2022 10:38:37 GMT -5
Those are good Barbara, thank you! We should wait now until Eva replies that she's seen them and is ready for more ok? So now you could work on your other study.
I would like to add one thing that I think you'd like Barbara. On one of MacArthur's sermons that I listened to a couple of days ago, he was talking about when a Christian dies. Specifically he was speaking about a woman he went to visit in the hospital, who was dying and what he told her. Now MacArthur is always going to tell the truth. He never sugar coats anything to try and make someone feel better, because he knows that it's the truth that sets people free. He told this woman that dying was like going to sleep here and waking up to see the Lord and feel all His love for you.
He then said that he knows people say they aren't afraid of dying, but are afraid of the pain that happens before you die. But there is no pain for a true Believer! He explained that Jesus removes all the pain for those who trust in Him, because He promised that they would never taste death. He was thinking of this scripture: “I tell you the truth, if anyone keeps my word, he will never see death.” At this the Jews exclaimed, “Now we know that you are demon-possessed! Abraham died and so did the prophets, yet you say that if anyone keeps your word, he will never taste death.” (John 8:51–52) and this one: “But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, now crowned with glory and honor because he suffered death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.” (Hebrews 2:9) MacArthur said that we wouldn't feel any pain because Jesus had "tasted" the pain of death for us all. So just as His life has been put on our account, so has his "death". Remember the scriptures that say we have died with Him? (like in Romans 6:5–8). So we don't experience the bad part of death.
Now, that doesn't necessarily mean that those of us who live with pain won't feel our normal pain that day, though the Lord might take it away too. I don't know. But it does mean that we won't have any more pain when we die. I know from experience that the Lord does sometimes take away all my pain. It usually lasts for a whole day when He does that. And He's done that once or twice every year. It's like He's giving me a mini vacation from pain, which is really wonderful and amazing since physically I shouldn't be able to stand or walk without pain. But with God, all things are possible! So we can know we won't have any extra pain at death, and hope (and even pray) that we won't have even our normal pain at that time. 
Edited to add: Wouldn't you know that in my Bible study today the Lord reminded more about what His Word says about death and what MacArthur said too. Let me share it with you.
“While they were stoning him, Stephen prayed, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.” Then he fell on his knees and cried out, “Lord, do not hold this sin against them.” When he had said this, he fell asleep.” (Acts 7:59–60)
“Lord Jesus, receive my spirit” Notice that Stephen believed that he was going to heaven to be with Jesus (cf. 2 Cor. 5:6, 8) and not to some holding place of the dead like purgatory. this also proves there's no such thing as "soul sleep" and no such thing as “oblivion” at death. We go either to Heaven or Hell immediately. MacArthur says: Although he experienced a violent and terrible form of death, Stephen “went to sleep.” This is not a euphemism which would hide the fearful reality but literal truth. This expression is regularly used in the NT with reference to the dying of believers. By the use of this very word for death the resurrection is implied. But only the body falls asleep; the soul does not sleep but is with the Lord, awaiting the awakening of the body. This reminded me of more of what he said in the sermon. He used this as the proof that the lady would experience nothing more then simply going to sleep and waking up in Heaven. He wanted her and all of us to know that this idea wasn't just his, but was from the Word of God. We see that expression a number of times but Only in the NT. It reminds me especially of these two: “Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed—” (1 Corinthians 15:51) and “Brothers, we do not want you to be ignorant about those who fall asleep, or to grieve like the rest of men, who have no hope. We believe that Jesus died and rose again and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him.” (1 Thessalonians 4:13–14)
Remember too what MacArthur said about getting our new body. God created "time" for us here on the Earth, but He isn't bound by time. Therefore, when we die, we will get our new body right away, instantly, because we too won't be bound by time. That's awesome!
I know that in the past we've talked a lot about death and I've often tried to assure you that it was nothing to fear. I totally believed that and in fact have looked forward to death myself. I don't remember for sure, but I may have even used the expression of falling asleep here and waking up in heaven. But even if I did, I don't think I realized it was literally in the Bible like this! I'm going to have to look and see if I copied any of those threads to this board and see what I said in the past and add this to it. I can't wait to be with Jesus! You know, in the past, I realized one day that what I was actually looking forward to about death or the rapture was getting away from all the trials and problems and hate and sin. There's nothing wrong with that, but I felt it wasn't totally right either, that my main focus should be on Jesus like the Bible says so often. So I prayed and asked the Lord to make that my main thought whenever I thought about either the rapture or dying, and of course He did! I don't have any idea of how long it took. I just remember one day realizing that it had happened! Now I can't wait to see Him, talk to Him, hug Him and just sit at His feet and listen to whatever He wants to say!
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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John 17
Mar 2, 2022 10:46:25 GMT -5
Post by fearnot on Mar 2, 2022 10:46:25 GMT -5
Exactly! That was my plan :)
to a tee....
or maybe a zee?
possibly a Bee...
Did I sleep much last night? LOL
Why thanks for asking :)
a 'little'
been up since 4 went
to sleep at one
so better than none...
but still
punch drunk,
or maybe
no sleep drunk is more like it
since I don't drink at all.....
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John 17
Mar 2, 2022 11:01:09 GMT -5
Post by Cindy on Mar 2, 2022 11:01:09 GMT -5
I didn't sleep either. By the way, I edited my post and posted something for you!
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John 17
Mar 15, 2022 15:58:25 GMT -5
Post by evafromgreece on Mar 15, 2022 15:58:25 GMT -5
Hello!
I am a little confused on the subject of death that is discussed above. I mean… I am not sure if we will experience pain or not. Isn’t it possible to experience pain since we will be still here in our mortal bodies until we meet the Lord?
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John 17
Mar 17, 2022 10:47:31 GMT -5
Post by Cindy on Mar 17, 2022 10:47:31 GMT -5
On one of MacArthur told this woman that dying was like going to sleep here and waking up to see the Lord and feel all His love for you.
He then said that he knows people say they aren't afraid of dying, but are afraid of the pain that happens before you die. But there is no pain for a true Believer! He explained that Jesus removes all the pain for those who trust in Him, because He promised that they would never taste death. He was thinking of this scripture: “I tell you the truth, if anyone keeps my word, he will never see death.” At this the Jews exclaimed, “Now we know that you are demon-possessed! Abraham died and so did the prophets, yet you say that if anyone keeps your word, he will never taste death.” (John 8:51–52) and this one: “But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, now crowned with glory and honor because he suffered death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.” (Hebrews 2:9) MacArthur said that we wouldn't feel any pain because Jesus had "tasted" the pain of death for us all. So just as His life has been put on our account, so has his "death". Remember the scriptures that say we have died with Him? (like in Romans 6:5–8). So we don't experience the bad part of death.
Now, that doesn't necessarily mean that those of us who live with pain won't feel our normal pain that day, though the Lord might take it away too. I don't know. But it does mean that we won't have any more pain when we die. I know from experience that the Lord does sometimes take away all my pain. It usually lasts for a whole day when He does that. And He's done that once or twice every year. It's like He's giving me a mini vacation from pain, which is really wonderful and amazing since physically I shouldn't be able to stand or walk without pain. But with God, all things are possible! So we can know we won't have any extra pain at death, and hope (and even pray) that we won't have even our normal pain at that time.
“While they were stoning him, Stephen prayed, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.” Then he fell on his knees and cried out, “Lord, do not hold this sin against them.” When he had said this, he fell asleep.” (Acts 7:59–60) Notice that Stephen believed that he was going to heaven to be with Jesus (cf. 2 Cor. 5:6, 8) and not to some holding place of the dead like purgatory. this also proves there's no such thing as "soul sleep" and no such thing as “oblivion” at death. We go either to Heaven or Hell immediately. MacArthur says: Although he experienced a violent and terrible form of death, Stephen “went to sleep.” This is not a euphemism which would hide the fearful reality but literal truth. This expression is regularly used in the NT with reference to the dying of believers. By the use of this very word for death the resurrection is implied. But only the body falls asleep; the soul does not sleep but is with the Lord, awaiting the awakening of the body. MacArthur used this as the proof that the lady would experience nothing more then simply going to sleep and waking up in Heaven. He wanted her and all of us to know that this idea wasn't just his, but was from the Word of God. We see that expression a number of times but Only in the NT. It reminds me especially of these two: “Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed—” (1 Corinthians 15:51) and “Brothers, we do not want you to be ignorant about those who fall asleep, or to grieve like the rest of men, who have no hope. We believe that Jesus died and rose again and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him.” (1 Thessalonians 4:13–14)
Remember too that God created "time" for us here on the Earth, but He isn't bound by time. Therefore, when we die, we will get our new body right away, instantly, because we too won't be bound by time. That's awesome!
Hello! I am a little confused on the subject of death that is discussed above. I mean… I am not sure if we will experience pain or not. Isn’t it possible to experience pain since we will be still here in our mortal bodies until we meet the Lord?
We do experience pain right now, but death itself isn't painful. We tend to think of people we know who suffered for a long time. The problem with that is that many (if not all of them) were not really saved, and secondly that the pain they experienced happened before they died, not "at death". There is no pain for a believer at the moment of death. In fact it's the opposite for us. At death we are released from all pain! So if a person has a disease or injury that causes them pain and will end in their death, and they are really saved, they have nothing to fear from death. Even the pain their disease or injury causes them isn't anything to be feared because their Savior loves them and will relieve their pain when they ask. I know He has done that for me many, many, many times over the years. I should probably ask Him more often, but I tend to do so only when I get to the point of feeling that I can't take anymore. He relieves the pain and strengthens me too.
Whenever we have thoughts about death, they should be joyous thoughts because we will be leaving behind all the pain and sorrow and sin of this life and going on to have a perfect body and a life of love and joy for eternity with Jesus. There's just nothing better than that! I can't even imagine a person wanting to stay in this life with they could be with Jesus instead. I've told my kids not to cry when I die, unless it's for themselves, because I will be filled with joy and having the time of my life!
That's why MacArthur says that although Stephen experienced a violent and terrible form of death, Stephen “went to sleep.” This is not a euphemism which would hide the fearful reality but literal truth. (I put this in red in my post which I quoted above)
So yes, we can experience pain, just as we are right now, or at least Barbara and I are...I think I remember you saying you had pain daily too though. So yeah, we have to deal with that, but death is a release for all pain and sorrow into a wonderful life of love and joy that will last forever.
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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John 17
Mar 17, 2022 12:46:50 GMT -5
Post by fearnot on Mar 17, 2022 12:46:50 GMT -5
This was so interesting to me what you wrote:
You know, in the past, I realized one day that what I was actually looking forward to about death or the rapture was getting away from all the trials and problems and hate and sin.
There's nothing wrong with that, but I felt it wasn't totally right either,
that my main focus should be on Jesus like the Bible says so often.
So I prayed and asked the Lord to make that my main thought whenever I thought about either the rapture or dying, and of course He did!
I don't have any idea of how long it took. I just remember one day realizing that it had happened!
Now I can't wait to see Him, talk to Him, hug Him and just sit at His feet and listen to whatever He wants to say!
That is what is happening to me....tho...I still am looking forward to being away from sin ( especially my own) and hate in the world, and trials too
but just to see Jesus, have Him put His arms around me.....
I think that is worth eternity!
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Post by Cindy on Mar 18, 2022 11:20:47 GMT -5
Isn't it wonderful Barbara! God is so very good to us!
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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John 17
Mar 18, 2022 14:20:36 GMT -5
Post by fearnot on Mar 18, 2022 14:20:36 GMT -5
Thank you....yes, it is wonderful! :)
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!!
