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John 17
Feb 5, 2022 10:34:35 GMT -5
Post by Cindy on Feb 5, 2022 10:34:35 GMT -5
Hello! I am a bit confused now. Isn’t it both? I mean God knows what will happen before hand but at the same time He chose His people?
“The LORD did not set his affection on you and choose you because you were more numerous than other peoples, for you were the fewest of all peoples. But it was because the LORD loved you and kept the oath he swore to your forefathers that he brought you out with a mighty hand and redeemed you from the land of slavery, from the power of Pharaoh king of Egypt.” (Deuteronomy 7:7–8)
God did not choose Israel, or make any other choice, because it was required by the merits or actions of those chosen. No necessity of any kind impelled God to choose. Rather God’s choices were spontaneous acts, motivated only by His own loving character.
God chooses to love. He chose to love Israel and chose them, and He's chosen to love each of us and has chosen each of us. This may be hard to understand as you don't have any children yet, but a mother loves her child as soon as she becomes pregnant. That child hasn't done anything or said anything to make her love them, and yet she does. Later, when the child is an adult, even if that adult child should tell their mother that they hate her, she will still love her child. (I can vouch for that, because one of my children did that to me as a young adult, and yet I still love them.) It's a choice the mother makes even before she gets pregnant, and that choice continues no matter what her child does or say or doesn't do.
That's how it is with God too. God makes a choice to choose certain people to love us and save us, just as He did with Abraham, and the other patriarchs and finally with Israel. Thankfully we are among those He has chosen. So you see, God did not look into the future and say, "Eva is going to do good things because she will love me, therefore I will save her."; Instead, long before you were born, the Lord decided that He would no only create you but that He would also save you so you could spend eternity with Him.
“So do not be ashamed to testify about our Lord, or ashamed of me his prisoner. But join with me in suffering for the gospel, by the power of God, who has saved us and called us to a holy life—not because of anything we have done but because of his own purpose and grace. This grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time,” (2 Timothy 1:8–9)
“But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved.” (Ephesians 2:4–5)
Do you understand that God simply chooses us because He wants to and not because of anything we will ever do or think or say? That's one reason our salvation is such a miracle, because we don't deserve it! The only thing you or I deserve is to go to Hell! We couldn't possibly live a good enough life and have good enough thoughts, to be worthy of Heaven and a relationship with God. That's why Jesus came and lived a perfect life for us. God put our Lord's life on our account and put our wicked life and thoughts on His account. Because our wicked life was put on His account, He had to die for all of our sins, and we didn't, and we can therefore spend eternity in Heaven with God. Does this help?
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fearnot
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John 17
Feb 5, 2022 11:34:16 GMT -5
Post by fearnot on Feb 5, 2022 11:34:16 GMT -5
I think another thing is,
we were unable to choose God,
because we all are spiritually dead unless God chooses us.
And you were dead in your trespasses and sins,
Ephesians 2:1
Can a dead person: choose?
If they are dead, no they cannot.
The same with being spiritually dead.
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Post by evafromgreece on Feb 7, 2022 11:59:09 GMT -5
Thank you Cindy and Barbara!
Amazingly this was yesterdays message at church! I saw it online because as you know I have to stay home, but this was the exact message of the yesterdays sermon!
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fearnot
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John 17
Feb 7, 2022 12:31:21 GMT -5
Post by fearnot on Feb 7, 2022 12:31:21 GMT -5
It's always amazing and so cool when that happens :)
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fearnot
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John 17
Feb 7, 2022 13:24:39 GMT -5
Post by fearnot on Feb 7, 2022 13:24:39 GMT -5
John 17 verse 8 says:
For I have given them the words that you gave me,
and they have received them
and have come to know in truth that I came from you;
and they have believed that you sent me.
John 17:8
I think the word 'them', refers to the disciples,
but ultimately to all future believers.
And the Words Jesus gave them are teaching from God, about God.
To say they received His Words, does not mean that they just 'heard' them,
but rather that they accepted them, believed them, embraced them, loved them,
and were transformed by them.
I think this is not only a praise of God and His Words:
Such as this praise:
I will tell of your name to my brothers;
in the midst of the congregation I will praise you
Psalms 22:22
but in a way, is also a commending of the believers too.
And now I commend you to God
and to the word of his grace,
which is able to build you up
and to give you the inheritance among all those who are sanctified
Acts 20:32
The opposite would be:
and you do not have his word abiding in you,
for you do not believe the one whom he has sent.
John 5:38
And they ( disciples and future believers) know the truth,
that Jesus came from Heaven,
and came from God the Father.
I and the Father are one
John 10:30
And
I came forth from the Father
and have come into the world;
I am leaving the world again and going to the Father
John 16:28
Done for today
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John 17
Feb 8, 2022 12:53:52 GMT -5
Post by Cindy on Feb 8, 2022 12:53:52 GMT -5
Thank you Cindy and Barbara! Amazingly this was yesterdays message at church! I saw it online because as you know I have to stay home, but this was the exact message of the yesterdays sermon! |
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fearnot
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John 17
Feb 8, 2022 13:28:28 GMT -5
Post by fearnot on Feb 8, 2022 13:28:28 GMT -5
I am not sure if you had any additions or corrections with verse 8....so I will wait until tomorrow to move on :)
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John 17
Feb 10, 2022 11:39:25 GMT -5
Post by Cindy on Feb 10, 2022 11:39:25 GMT -5
Barbara, you don't have to wait for me. Just say what you want to say, and when I have time, I'll say what I want to say. Plus, you don't have to just do one verse at a time, unless that's what you want to do. It doesn't matter if I say something about verse 8 after you've talked about verse 12, or some other verse. I'm sure Eva can understand it regardless if it's out of order sometimes.
John 17:1–5 is what Jesus prayed for Himself;
John 17:6-19 is what Jesus prayed for His disciples.
John 17:20–26 is what Jesus prayed for all who would ever believe in Him, which of course includes us.
“For I gave them the words you gave me and they accepted them. They knew with certainty that I came from you, and they believed that you sent me. I pray for them. I am not praying for the world, but for those you have given me, for they are yours.” (John 17:8–9)
Verse 8 isn't saying that the disciples understood everything, because there was a lot they didn't understand yet, and wouldn't until after the resurrection and receiving the Holy Spirit. What Jesus is saying here is that they believed in Him; that they had true saving faith in Him as God. They believed He was God and believed that the Father had sent Him, and had given Him the message to speak to them.
Verse 9 is amazing to me. Even in this prayer which He of course knows He will include in the Bible for us, He says things to make sure we don't misunderstand anything. Verse 9 lets us know that He is not praying for the unsaved, (that's what the word "world" means in this verse.) but is praying for those who are saved, which at this point of the prayer, He is talkiing about the disciples specifically. But the truth He gives us in verse 9 is also true about all who will ever be saved, including us. The Father gave us to Jesus as a gift. But here Jesus is saying that He isn't asking anything for the unsaved, but for His disciples because they belong to Him. This does not mean that Christ is unconcerned about the unsaved, He is concerned about them. But this prayer is for sanctification, glorification, and protection which can only apply to those who belong to Him p those who are saved. it's also interesting that the word He uses for "pray" when He says, "I pray for them" isn't the usual word. Instead it's a word that means you're asking something from an equal.
He goes on to say:
“All I have is yours, and all you have is mine. And glory has come to me through them.” (John 17:10) This shows the unity of the trinity. That glory has come to Jesus through the disciples already, must have made them feel good, but I bet it also made them wonder how; because like us, they would have felt that they hadn't done anything particularly good. This also shows us that our life should bring honor to Jesus just as His life brought honor to the Father.
That's all I have time for now as I have to work on our bills and our taxes. So won't be here tomorrow. I hope you both have a great day today. And I'll be praying for you both too.
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fearnot
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John 17
Feb 10, 2022 13:12:25 GMT -5
Post by fearnot on Feb 10, 2022 13:12:25 GMT -5
Since you covered verses 9+10 so well, I won't say much about them.
9 I am praying for them.
I am not praying for the world
but for those whom you have given me,
for they are yours.
10 All mine are yours, and yours are mine, and I am glorified in them.
John17:9,10
Jesus is our Great High Priest who loves us and can mediate for us.
Since then we have a great high priest
who has passed through the heavens,
Jesus, the Son of God,
let us hold fast our confession.
Hebrews 4:14
As you already pointed out, when Jesus says,
He is not praying for the world,
When He singles out the 'World' :
He is referring to unbelievers, condemned carnal sinners.
Rather Jesus prays for those Father God gave Him,
from out of the World. These have been chosen, elected, for eternal salvation.
IN a way, this almost reminds me, sort of like a glimpse of when we get to Heaven,
and we are accepted because instead of us being filthy sinners,
The Father see us in Jesus. And as He is God the Son,
we are adopted sons and daughters.
Onto to verse 11
11 And I am no longer in the world,
but they are in the world,
and I am coming to you.
Holy Father, keep them in your name, which you have given,
that they may be one, even as we are one
John 17:11
I think when Jesus says He is no longer in the world,
He is looking ahead to the not so distant future ( hours even)
of His soon coming Crucifixion, death, resurrection
and then...
ascension back in Heaven....back to being with God the Father.
However the disciples will be left alone ( without Jesus in the flesh with them).
A world of rampant sin, Satan and his demons, that is evil and dangerous.
They are in need of Godly and divine protection.
They have become the adopted sons of the Father.
I just keep falling asleep ( I did not sleep last night).
So I am done for today.
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John 17
Feb 11, 2022 11:27:15 GMT -5
Post by Cindy on Feb 11, 2022 11:27:15 GMT -5
Sorry you're having trouble staying awake hon. You did a good job on the verse though. I would like to add something if you don't mind though.
““I am no longer in the world; and yet they themselves are in the world, and I come to You. Holy Father, keep them in Your name, the name which You have given Me, that they may be one even as We are.” (John 17:11)
Jesus is doing in this verse what the prophets before Him often did, and in fact, what He has done before when making a prophecy. At times like that, the prophet states something that is in the future as though it had already happened. God has them do that to show that what they're speaking about can't be changed, and is definitely going to happen. Sometimes it surprises people to realize that Jesus was also a prophet. He prophesized that Jerusalem and the rest of Israel would fall and the Temple be destroyed which happened in AD 70. Among other things, He prophesized what will happen during the Tribulation and Millennial Kingdom and afterward, and of course about His own death and resurrection.
I'd also like to talk about what it means when Jesus or the apostles speak of "the Name" or "Your Name" etc. He's obviously speaking about a lot more then just a name. A name represented the nature of the person being spoken about. In this case "Your Name" would be speaking about God the Father, including all of His attributes and His character. But Jesus continues, saying, “the name, which you have given to me” which is a claim to equality with God the Father, and so is Jesus again reminding us that He is God.
I've found that today there are many people who think Jesus is just another person, maybe a great one, but just a person. Because of that, I started making a list of every time I noticed that Jesus said He was God (like in this verse) or someone else said it. I thought I'd find a few places, but have been absolutely amazed at how often Jesus said it! I have well over 100 times in my list so far! The reason we don't notice it at first is simply because we aren't Jews and aren't used to thinking like they did and still do. For example, every time Jesus stated that He was God's son, or called Himself that, or said that God was His Father, He was claiming to be equal to God, to being God, according to how the Jews believe. In fact, that's exactly why they wanted to kill Him, because He insisted He was God! One of the many that have become very obvious to me now is this one: “I and the Father are one.”” (John 10:30) and in the next verses it talks about them trying to kill him for that: “Again the Jews picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus said to them, “I have shown you many great miracles from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?” “We are not stoning you for any of these,” replied the Jews, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.”” (John 10:31–33)
Jesus prays that believers will be one just as the trinity is one. I'm afraid that we don't see much of that today, mainly due to all the unbelievers in church claiming to be saved. But unity doesn't mean we're not different too. Jesus is talking about the unity of loving each other the way He loves us, and the way the Father loves Him and He loves the Father. To be truly in unity requires that we each know God's Word and study it daily until we know it very well. Why? Because it's through knowing and applying God's Word, loving His Word, that our love for God increases and our love for others increases. It's through knowing and applying His word that we grow in love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self control. The unsaved see this and want what we have.
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fearnot
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John 17
Feb 11, 2022 17:09:12 GMT -5
Post by fearnot on Feb 11, 2022 17:09:12 GMT -5
You pretty much covered the part about 'your name' in verse 12 :)
While I was with them, I was keeping them in Your name
which You have given Me;
and I guarded them and not one of them perished
but the son of perdition, so that the Scripture would be fulfilled.
John 17:12
Jesus protected them, but Judas was never a son of God the father,
Judas never belonged to Him.
Rather Judas was always on the wrong road, and the son of perdition.
Enter through the narrow gate;
for the gate is wide
and the way is broad that leads to destruction,
and there are many who enter through it
Matthew 7:13
Jesus always knew this
But there are some of you who do not believe.
For Jesus knew from the beginning
who they were who did not believe,
and who it was that would betray Him
John 6:64
and this
Jesus answered them,
“Did I Myself not choose you, the twelve,
and yet one of you is a devil?”
Now He meant Judas the son of Simon Iscariot,
for he, one of the twelve, was going to betray Him.
John 6:70,71
I think we can see a double prophecy or hint of Judas and his betray in this psalm:
Even my close friend in whom I trusted,
Who ate my bread,
Has lifted up his heel against me
Psalms 41:9
As we see,
They dipped 'bread' into the bowl.
20 Now when evening came,
Jesus was reclining at the table with the twelve disciples.
21 As they were eating, He said, “Truly I say to you that one of you will betray Me.”
22 Being deeply grieved, they each one began to say to Him,
“Surely not I, Lord?”
23 And He answered,
“He who dipped his hand with Me in the bowl
is the one who will betray Me.
25 And Judas, who was betraying Him, said,
“Surely it is not I, Rabbi?”
Jesus *said to him,
“You have said it yourself.”
Matthew 26: 20-23, 25
It is important to remember that Jesus does not just and only pray for His disciplines
but also all who will believe in Him.
I do not ask on behalf of these alone,
but for those also who believe in Me through their word
John 17:20
John 17:13
And others like it that talk about joy,
has always, at first, been, a bit mysterious, and hard for me to comprehend.
If I look only at the world today...
There is a lot of sorrow, hardship, pain, endless sins,
war, murder, rape, sickness, and on and on, etc. etc.
So if that was all I could see, on my own,
( well except the occasional natural beauty, and some good and fun)...
nevertheless, I would be hard-pressed, based on that alone to
understand 'joy'
But now I come to You;
and these things I speak in the world
so that they may have My joy made full in themselves.
John 17:13
It's not like Jesus, was unaware of the troubles in this life:
I have told you these things,
so that in me you may have peace.
In this world you will have trouble.
But take heart!
I have overcome the world.
John 16:33
However, the first thing I note,
is Jesus says....His joy.
We know the end of the story,
we know Jesus has overcome the world.
And further, I am thinking Jesus
may be also referring for one thing, to the future
eternity future, with Him in the New Heaven and New Earth.
We have His peace, His joy, His spirit, and we know He is victorious.
Done for in for today
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fearnot
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John 17
Feb 12, 2022 12:36:28 GMT -5
Post by fearnot on Feb 12, 2022 12:36:28 GMT -5
Looking at John 17:14
I have given them Your word;
and the world has hated them,
because they are not of the world,
even as I am not of the world.
John 17:14
Earlier Jesus had said concerning the hatred of the world of unbelievers:
18 If the world hates you,
you know that it has hated Me
before it hated you.
19 If you were of the world, the world would love its own;
but because you are not of the world,
but I chose you out of the world,
because of this the world hates you.
20 Remember the word that I said to you,
‘A slave is not greater than his master.’
If they persecuted Me, they will also persecute you;
if they kept My word, they will keep yours also
23 He who hates Me
hates My Father also.
25 But they have done this to fulfill the word
that is written in their Law,
‘They hated Me without a cause'
John 15:18-
So Jesus understands being hated.
But one of the reasons the world hated the apostles,
and hates Christians now is:
because of the 'Word'.
(the Bible, the gospel).
They don't like hearing about everyone being a sinner.
They love their sins,
so therefore, the Word, is not agreeable to them,
so they call it:
judgmental and 'hate' speech today.
Furthermore, they are doing everything possible
to make their sins seem perfectly fine and acceptable.
They are busy making laws stating the right to sin
( be it sexual, murdering babies in the womb, stealing etc.etc.)
The have parades, and make movies and songs praising their rebellion against God.
And they teach the youngest of children, to be accepting of all manner of sins.
Another reason they hate Christians,
is believers are not 'spiritually'
of this world.
On some level, unbelievers know this,
and it infuriates them.
Little sleep again, so done for today.
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Post by Cindy on Feb 14, 2022 12:53:16 GMT -5
Those are both great posts Barbara, thank you! I'd like to add one thing that your first post made me think of when you were talking about Judas. Barbara may have already shown this, I don't remember, but to be sure that everyone is aware of this, as Barbara said, Jesus knew that Judas would betray him even before He chose Judas to be one of His disciples. Jesus stated this fairly early in His ministry when He said this: “Then Jesus replied, “Have I not chosen you, the Twelve? Yet one of you is a devil!” (He meant Judas, the son of Simon Iscariot, who, though one of the Twelve, was later to betray him.)” (John 6:70–71).
Now Judas was not a robot. God did not force him to betray Jesus. In fact, Jesus did His very best to turn him away from betraying Him! Jesus never treated Judas any differently than He did any of His other disciples. He loved Judas, and showed Judas His love. Judas preached the gospel with the other disciples when Jesus sent them all out to do so. Judas performed many miracles, just like the other disciples did at that time too. Think about these verses and how they relate to Judas: “When Jesus had called the Twelve together, he gave them power and authority to drive out all demons and to cure diseases, and he sent them out to preach the kingdom of God and to heal the sick.” (Luke 9:1–2) and “So they set out and went from village to village, preaching the gospel and healing people everywhere.” (Luke 9:6) Remember what the disciples said to Jesus when they returned? (and this would also include Judas) ““...The seventy-two returned with joy and said, “Lord, even the demons submit to us in your name.”” (Luke 10:16–17)
I'm sure we're all familiar with the story about Mary, the sister of Lazarus, when she poured the perfume all over Jesus. You can read the story in John 12:1–8. The part that's important to us now is this information about Judas: “But one of his disciples, Judas Iscariot, who was later to betray him, objected, “Why wasn’t this perfume sold and the money given to the poor? It was worth a year’s wages.” He did not say this because he cared about the poor but because he was a thief; as keeper of the money bag, he used to help himself to what was put into it.” (John 12:4–6) This is information the disciples didn't have until after Jesus ascended to heaven. They had no idea that Judas was taking money from them all and using it for himself, but Jesus did! This happened toward the end of our Lord's ministry. We can know this because it happened after Jesus raised Lazarus to life, which caused the Pharisee's to want to kill Jesus even more then before.
So consider.... Judas lived with Jesus and the other disciples for 3 years. He heard all of our Lord's sermons, and heard all of the private teachings He gave His disciples. He preached the good news himself, and did many miracles of healing and even cast out demons! (To me that's the most amazing as we know he himself will be possessed by a demon before his story ends.) He was treated the same way as everyone else, meaning he was loved like all the others, in a very personal way. There could have been no doubt in Judas's mind that Jesus loved him. Yet during all that time, Jesus knew that Judas would betray Him. In fact, Jesus continued right to the very end to try and turn Judas from it! Judas was constantly in the presence of Jesus and the other disciples and not one single one of the other disciples had even the smallest hint that Judas wasn't really one of them! Think of the last supper when Jesus told them all that one of them would betray Him....they all wondered if they would be the one to do it. Judas said the same thing, but he knew he was the one.
At that last supper before Jesus told them someone would betray Him, He first washed the feet of all the disciples, including Judas, then seated Judas in the seat of honor, and handed Judas the "sop" which was another mark of honor. Let me share how MacArthur explains this:
"The “piece of bread” was a piece broken from some of the unleavened cakes that were on the table as a part of the Passover feast. Also on the table was a dish called cheshireth, filled with bitter herbs, vinegar, salt, and mashed fruit (consisting of dates, figs, raisins, and water)—all mixed together into a pasty substance. Jesus and His disciples ate it with the unleavened bread like a dip. It was a mark of honor for the host to dip a morsel into the cheshireth and give it to the guest of honor. And Jesus, in a kind gesture of love toward Judas, dipped the morsel and gave it to him, as if Judas were the guest of honor." Remember, this was after Jesus had told them that one of them would betray Him. Let me share these scriptures so you can see what happened then. “Jesus answered, “It is the one to whom I will give this piece of bread when I have dipped it in the dish.” Then, dipping the piece of bread, he gave it to Judas Iscariot, son of Simon. As soon as Judas took the bread, Satan entered into him. “What you are about to do, do quickly,” Jesus told him, but no one at the meal understood why Jesus said this to him.” (John 13:26–28) By giving that piece of bread to Judas, Jesus was giving him one last chance to turn from his sin, but he chose not to. Therefore, as soon as he took the bread, his fate was sealed and Satan entered him to possess him.
What is amazing to me, when I reflect on all of this, is how close someone can come to salvation and still not be saved. i can't imagine seeing and hearing all that Judas saw and heard and not loving Jesus and wanting Him to be the Master and Lord of my life. But Judas didn't want to give up control of his life to Jesus. So he kept control and now, due to his own control will spend the rest of time in Hell and then spend eternity in the Lake of fire. Another thing this shows us is how Jesus treated His enemies, and shows us how He expects us to treat people who hurt us. There's actually a lot of things to think about in all of this, so I'll leave us to do just that.
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fearnot
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John 17
Feb 14, 2022 13:10:20 GMT -5
Post by fearnot on Feb 14, 2022 13:10:20 GMT -5
Yesterday we noted that Jesus said the world would hate Christians as it hated Him.
Nevertheless, He does not ask God the Father to take out of the world, away from all the hatred
( I often wish He would, to be honest)
and not only that....we see in verse 15 that really,
behind all the human hatred, is Satan, the evil one.
I do not ask that you take them out of the world,
but that you keep them from the evil one
John 17:15
So if someone is like me, they might ask, WHY?
Why wouldn't Jesus ask the Father to take them out of this evil, sin filled world?
Doesn't Jesus love them enough to protect them from such evil?
However, they are needed in the world, they have work to do,
compassion to show to the perishing, and the gospel to give them,
and to thus glorify God.
But compared to any human, Satan's power in huge, colossal, tremendous,and overwhelming.
The devil, Satan is:
1 And you were dead in the trespasses and sins
2 in which you once walked,
following the course of this world,
following the prince of the power of the air,
the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience
Ephesians 2:1,2
Not only is is power and strength immense,
but he is the father of lies and deception.
You are of your father the devil,
and your will is to do your father's desires.
He was a murderer from the beginning,
and does not stand in the truth,
because there is no truth in him.
When he lies, he speaks out of his own character,
for he is a liar and the father of lies
John 8:44
Satan hates God's will, God's viewpoint, God's strength, God's Word, God's love of humans etc..
Satan is ultimately behind and influencing the human unbeliever's hostility,
against God and Christians.
The unsaved world's systems of corruption, vice, etc. appeals to:
all that is in the world—
the desires of the flesh
and the desires of the eyes
and pride of life[—
is not from the Father but is from the world.
1 John 2:16
Christians would be foolish to think,
they could never be 'tempted' by these things.
He even tried to tempt God the Son ( Jesus)
with these things.
So if we were left out in the world, without God's help
we would not be victorious, but rather crushed.
But instead, with God:
The God of peace will soon crush Satan under your feet.
The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you.
Romans 16:20
Done for today.
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fearnot
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John 17
Feb 14, 2022 13:46:50 GMT -5
Post by fearnot on Feb 14, 2022 13:46:50 GMT -5
Thank you for all you super additional information! :)
I suspect you may add to this verse. :)
I will try to do two or three verses tomorrow,
but I have to get ready to do some things with hubby today.
Again thank you so much!
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John 17
Feb 15, 2022 8:18:58 GMT -5
Post by evafromgreece on Feb 15, 2022 8:18:58 GMT -5
Sorry you're having trouble staying awake hon. You did a good job on the verse though. I would like to add something if you don't mind though.
““I am no longer in the world; and yet they themselves are in the world, and I come to You. Holy Father, keep them in Your name, the name which You have given Me, that they may be one even as We are.” (John 17:11)
Jesus is doing in this verse what the prophets before Him often did, and in fact, what He has done before when making a prophecy. At times like that, the prophet states something that is in the future as though it had already happened. God has them do that to show that what they're speaking about can't be changed, and is definitely going to happen. Sometimes it surprises people to realize that Jesus was also a prophet. He prophesized that Jerusalem and the rest of Israel would fall and the Temple be destroyed which happened in AD 70. Among other things, He prophesized what will happen during the Tribulation and Millennial Kingdom and afterward, and of course about His own death and resurrection.
I'd also like to talk about what it means when Jesus or the apostles speak of "the Name" or "Your Name" etc. He's obviously speaking about a lot more then just a name. A name represented the nature of the person being spoken about. In this case "Your Name" would be speaking about God the Father, including all of His attributes and His character. But Jesus continues, saying, “the name, which you have given to me” which is a claim to equality with God the Father, and so is Jesus again reminding us that He is God.
I've found that today there are many people who think Jesus is just another person, maybe a great one, but just a person. Because of that, I started making a list of every time I noticed that Jesus said He was God (like in this verse) or someone else said it. I thought I'd find a few places, but have been absolutely amazed at how often Jesus said it! I have well over 100 times in my list so far! The reason we don't notice it at first is simply because we aren't Jews and aren't used to thinking like they did and still do. For example, every time Jesus stated that He was God's son, or called Himself that, or said that God was His Father, He was claiming to be equal to God, to being God, according to how the Jews believe. In fact, that's exactly why they wanted to kill Him, because He insisted He was God! One of the many that have become very obvious to me now is this one: “I and the Father are one.”” (John 10:30) and in the next verses it talks about them trying to kill him for that: “Again the Jews picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus said to them, “I have shown you many great miracles from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?” “We are not stoning you for any of these,” replied the Jews, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.”” (John 10:31–33)
Jesus prays that believers will be one just as the trinity is one. I'm afraid that we don't see much of that today, mainly due to all the unbelievers in church claiming to be saved. But unity doesn't mean we're not different too. Jesus is talking about the unity of loving each other the way He loves us, and the way the Father loves Him and He loves the Father. To be truly in unity requires that we each know God's Word and study it daily until we know it very well. Why? Because it's through knowing and applying God's Word, loving His Word, that our love for God increases and our love for others increases. It's through knowing and applying His word that we grow in love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self control. The unsaved see this and want what we have.
Hello guys! I have 2 questions on this but they are partly related to these verses. Maybe I have mentioned before that my family used to attend some churched that denied the Trinity. That led me in the first years to be confused because I heard so many theories and so many false teachings as a child. Now… I cannot even understand their claims. And I didn’t even remember them for sure. But I cannot understand how, for something that obvious that is mentioned clearly so many times in the bible there are… theories… Cindy you mentioned this ”Because it's through knowing and applying God's Word, loving His Word, that our love for God increases and our love for others increases. It's through knowing and applying His word that we grow in love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self control. The unsaved see this and want what we have.” And I saw many times you referred that the unsaved want what we have. But do they? Do they or they are becoming enemies because we are not like them and we are different from the world? It’s good to be different and to have the Holy Spirit changing you. But I don’t think that the unbelievers would like that , except of the ones that are going to be saved eventually. |
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John 17
Feb 15, 2022 9:09:47 GMT -5
Post by evafromgreece on Feb 15, 2022 9:09:47 GMT -5
Looking at John 17:14
I have given them Your word;
and the world has hated them,
because they are not of the world,
even as I am not of the world.
John 17:14
Earlier Jesus had said concerning the hatred of the world of unbelievers:
18 If the world hates you,
you know that it has hated Me
before it hated you.
19 If you were of the world, the world would love its own;
but because you are not of the world,
but I chose you out of the world,
because of this the world hates you.
20 Remember the word that I said to you,
‘A slave is not greater than his master.’
If they persecuted Me, they will also persecute you;
if they kept My word, they will keep yours also
23 He who hates Me
hates My Father also.
25 But they have done this to fulfill the word
that is written in their Law,
‘They hated Me without a cause'
John 15:18-
So Jesus understands being hated.
But one of the reasons the world hated the apostles,
and hates Christians now is:
because of the 'Word'.
(the Bible, the gospel).
They don't like hearing about everyone being a sinner.
They love their sins,
so therefore, the Word, is not agreeable to them,
so they call it:
judgmental and 'hate' speech today.
Furthermore, they are doing everything possible
to make their sins seem perfectly fine and acceptable.
They are busy making laws stating the right to sin
( be it sexual, murdering babies in the womb, stealing etc.etc.)
The have parades, and make movies and songs praising their rebellion against God.
And they teach the youngest of children, to be accepting of all manner of sins.
Another reason they hate Christians,
is believers are not 'spiritually'
of this world.
On some level, unbelievers know this,
and it infuriates them.
Little sleep again, so done for today.
14Εγώ τους έδωσα το δικό σου μήνυμα· ο κόσμος όμως τους μίσησε γιατί δεν ανήκουν στον κόσμο, όπως και εγώ δεν προέρχομαι από τον κόσμο. 15Σε παρακαλώ, όχι να τους πάρεις από τον κόσμο, αλλά να τους προστατέψεις από το διάβολο. 16Δεν προέρχονται από τον πονηρό κόσμο, όπως και εγώ δεν προέρχομαι απ’ αυτόν τον κόσμο. 17Με την αλήθεια σου ξεχώρισέ τους από τον κόσμο· ο δικός σου ο λόγος είναι αλήθεια. 18Όπως εσύ έστειλες εμένα στον κόσμο, έτσι κι εγώ έστειλα στον κόσμο αυτούς· 19και για χάρη τους αφιερώνω και προσφέρω τον εαυτό μου σ’ εσένα, ώστε κι αυτοί, με τη βοήθεια της αλήθειας, να είναι αφιερωμένοι σ’ εσένα. Actually I am thinking of what I mentioned before. The world is going to hate everyone is not like them. I am dealing with people everyday because of my work and see their behaviours over the years. The world speaks about “diversity” and “the right to be different”, but at the same time if you are not following the worlds ways you are not accepted. And in fact if we were accepted by the world that would not be a good sign of where we stand as Christians. |
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fearnot
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John 17
Feb 15, 2022 11:39:29 GMT -5
Post by fearnot on Feb 15, 2022 11:39:29 GMT -5
I totally agree with what you wrote Eva...
quote:
"The world speaks about “diversity” and “the right to be different”,
but at the same time
if you are not following the worlds ways you are not accepted.
And in fact if we were accepted by the world that would not be a good sign of where we stand as Christians".
Couldn't have said it better myself :)
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John 17
Feb 15, 2022 16:35:10 GMT -5
Post by fearnot on Feb 15, 2022 16:35:10 GMT -5
They are not of the world, just as I am not of the world.
John 17:16
This is a repetition of verse 14, and is the reason why they( the disciples)
and Christians today are hated.
Satan is the ruler of this world
( when Adam and Eve gave over the title deed to him via sin)....
but the devil will be cast out, in the future.
This is not our home:
But our citizenship is in heaven,
and from it we await a Savior,
the Lord Jesus Christ.
Philippians 3:20
And also
Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers.
For what partnership has righteousness with lawlessness?
Or what fellowship has light with darkness?
2 Corinthians 6:14
verse 17 says:
Sanctify them in the truth;
Your word is truth
John 17:17
Sancitification is the process of believers,
being made Holy,
id through God's Word, (the Bible),
the Truth.
Perhaps the sanctification of believers today is so slow,
or non existent, in some ways, goes back to the verse in 2 Corinthians 6:14
and is due to so many believers being unequally yoked with unbelievers,
and also having some amount of fellowship with darkness.
Which I think, may be due to believers not being in the Word daily.
We often do not want to be separate from the world and its evil.
And, because many are confused, as to:
what is really evil?
what really is truth?
They do not know, because, the do not spend time daily,
in The Book of Truth, the Bible, God's Word.
Just a few minutes scanning the news today,
makes me wonder, how did I get to an alternative world over night?
It is absolutely crazy, and sad....how fast confusion, and evil, have grown!
Even in many Christian churches, so many so called believers,
have little to no idea what God says in His Word.
7 The law of the Lord is perfect, restoring the soul;
The testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple.
8 The precepts of the Lord are right, rejoicing the heart;
The commandment of the Lord is pure, enlightening the eyes.
9 The fear of the Lord is clean, enduring forever;
The judgments of the Lord are true; they are righteous altogether.
10 They are more desirable than gold, yes, than much fine gold;
Sweeter also than honey and the drippings of the honeycomb.
11 Moreover, by them Your servant is warned;
In keeping them there is great reward.
Psalms 19:7-11
Done for today
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John 17
Feb 16, 2022 10:42:10 GMT -5
Post by Cindy on Feb 16, 2022 10:42:10 GMT -5
I have 2 questions on this but they are partly related to these verses. Maybe I have mentioned before that my family used to attend some churched that denied the Trinity. That led me in the first years to be confused because I heard so many theories and so many false teachings as a child. Now… I cannot even understand their claims. And I didn’t even remember them for sure. But I cannot understand how, for something that obvious that is mentioned clearly so many times in the bible there are… theories… Cindy you mentioned this ”Because it's through knowing and applying God's Word, loving His Word, that our love for God increases and our love for others increases. It's through knowing and applying His word that we grow in love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self control. The unsaved see this and want what we have.” And I saw many times you referred that the unsaved want what we have. But do they? Do they or they are becoming enemies because we are not like them and we are different from the world? It’s good to be different and to have the Holy Spirit changing you. But I don’t think that the unbelievers would like that , except of the ones that are going to be saved eventually.
And that's a good picture of who unbelievers act. There are some who will see our life and want what we have, and they may act on that. Others will act hatefully toward us, just as Jesus said they would. So it's in general only those who are elect that will want what we have. But seriously, even if no one ever wanted what we have in our life, we still must live our life as an example to others of what being a Christian is all about.
You mentioned the trinity, but I couldn't tell if you had a question about it or not... I hope I answered your question, but really you answered it yourself lol |
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John 17
Feb 16, 2022 13:40:07 GMT -5
Post by fearnot on Feb 16, 2022 13:40:07 GMT -5
18 As you sent me into the world,
I have sent them into the world.
John 17:18
Jesus was sent into the world by God the Father.
This does not mean Jesus God the Son was forced,
or that lowering Himself to be also human ( as He always remained God)
was not a disrespect to Jesus...
He was sent, but also chose to go out of love.
There was a great need, a terrible and difficult job to be done,
in order to save some humans.
And the apostles and all future believers will have a calling, a mission, to do,
out of love, compassion and sympathy for fallen men and women,
as Jesus has commissioned them and all believers to spread the gospel
19 For them I sanctify myself,
that they too may be truly sanctified.
John 17:19
This verse does not mean Jesus ever sinned, or was anything but perfectly Holy.
Rather Jesus is the source of true sanctification.
He is setting Himself apart for His work of redemption.
It reminds me of the Old Testament sacrifices for the temporary removal of sins,
the difference is when we are made Holy by our Lord, it is not temporary but eternal.
By Jesus blood we are made Holy, and our sins are forever forgiven.
It is because of him that you are in Christ Jesus,
who has become for us wisdom from God—
that is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption
1 Corinthians 1:30
Done for Today
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John 17
Feb 17, 2022 12:59:51 GMT -5
Post by fearnot on Feb 17, 2022 12:59:51 GMT -5
I do not ask on behalf of these alone,
but for those also who believe in Me through their word;
John 17:20
Now Jesus prays for those believers to come in the future,
(all the way to the end).
This does not seem like Jesus expected 'the end',
to come very soon.
.
What great love of God the Father, Jesus God the Son, and Holy Spirit.
But God, being rich in mercy,
because of the great love with which he loved us,
Ephesians 2:4
Those that will come to believe in Him and be saved,
come through the Word.
We can also say, that this was a prayer,
for the church.
But He did not pray for sinners, evil men, reprobates,
those that would die and remain unbelievers.
Rather, for those who did not 'yet' believe,
but would in the future.
And Jesus prayed for unity
that they may all be one,
just as you, Father, are in me,
and I in you,
that they also may be in us,
so that the world may believe that you have sent me
John 17:21
This is not saying we should compromise the truth,
and true doctrine,
and all sing kumabaya,
so as, to have an emotional unity.
Rather, Jesus is talking about the unity of
truth and love,
that He and the Father have.
We are to be known by our love for one another,
not by how much we compromise God's truth.
We have unity in our love for one another.
34 A new commandment I give to you,
that you love one another:
just as I have loved you,
you also are to love one another.
35 By this all people will know that you are my disciples,
if you have love for one another.”
John 13:34, 35
This type of unity proves and convinces the world
that Jesus is God, because He can transform
sinners in such a way, that is different from other groups
that support each other in some ways.
This is a Holy deep spiritual Love. The love of the trinity
is beyond comprehension, and the love of God
for rotten sinners, is equally incomprehensible.
Other groups have some unity, for some advantages.
This love and unity is a unity and love that goes way beyond that.
It is a unity and love, that imitates Jesus to a degree.
He died and paid eternity for our sins.
The unity of love of God's people often go to this next verse's extent,
because of Holy love.
Greater love has no one than this,
that someone lay down his life for his friends
John 15:13
However holiness, is based on sound doctrine
from God's Word.
The world will see the believer's unity in love, compassion,
generosity, peace, joy, etc. etc.
which is so different from the 'dog eat dog'
world's fighting for power, money, sex, etc.
that it will be clear that it is a divine unity,
and that Jesus is God.
Done for today
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Post by Cindy on Feb 17, 2022 13:23:51 GMT -5
Good one Barbara!
We are sanctified by God's spirit and His Word. As we study it and learn more about Him, our love for Him grows as well as our knowledge. What's crucial to know is that every time we ignore the Spirit's promptings, our hearts are hardened a little bit, until eventually, if we continue to ignore Him, we won't hear Him any more. Doing that is one of the things that will "grieve the Holy Spirit. The other thing that grieves Him is when we disobey the Word. This next scripture is command and not a suggestion, for a very good reason: “And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.” (Ephesians 4:30)
And of course, we aren't living sanctified lives when we refuse to listen to the Holy Spirit or refuse to obey God's Word. Looking back on my life now, I can easily see the way the Lord disciplined me for not obeying His Word. I could have avoided many bad experiences in my life if I had simply obeyed God instead of trying to live the way my mother did. I'm amazed that I didn't get it then...that I didn't put 2 + 2 together and realize that the Lord was disciplining me. And He continued to do so until the moment I turned back to Him and repented of my sins. (Hebrews 12:5–11)
It's also true that the more we obey Him (or try to obey) the more sanctified we become; the more we grow in our faith. And each time we obey, we'll be able to hear Him a little better the next time, until eventually we have no problem at all hearing Him. There's very real danger in this world, but God will protect us from it, IF we are abiding in His Word and obeying it. Otherwise, He generally allows us to get caught by the danger, in order to turn us back to Him. If people realized how much God does for us when we spend plenty of time in His Word every day, they would all have their Bibles with them constantly and be reading them every second they could. Most of us are very familiar with this verse, and yet we ignore it to our peril: “Jesus answered, “It is written: ‘Man does not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.’”” (Matthew 4:4) God's Word, the Bible, is our spiritual food that strengthens our new nature that we were given at salvation, and causes us to grow in our faith. Yet most people only nibble at God's Word. They literally are spiritually starving themselves to death. They're the ones that think spending 5 to 15 minutes a day in God's Word is all they need to do. My heart breaks for them because they're only hurting themselves. It's kind of ironic too because people like that will often say they don't have any more time they can spend in the Bible, yet they still spend hours watching TV, or being online, or reading fiction books, etc. They don't seem to realize that what they spend the most time doing is what they have made the most important in their lives; they make it first in their lives. But God tells us that we are to make Him first in our lives. Many people say they do, but very few actually do it. 
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fearnot
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John 17
Feb 17, 2022 14:12:34 GMT -5
Post by fearnot on Feb 17, 2022 14:12:34 GMT -5
Excellent! Thank you Cindy....I needed to read
that! It's a great encouragement, no matter how much I know that, it is uplifting, encouraging, and inspiring, to hear it again.
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John 17
Feb 18, 2022 11:50:35 GMT -5
Post by Cindy on Feb 18, 2022 11:50:35 GMT -5
I'm glad it was helpful Barbara. I can look back on my life now and see the times that God was disciplining me and I'm amazed that I just didn't get it then. But finally my eyes were opened and I realized what was going on. One problem I have is a tendency to wonder if the Lord is disciplining me whenever something goes wrong or whenever we're going through a hard time. It seems like I'm frequently having to ask the Lord's forgiveness for thinking that whatever was happening was caused by Him to discipline me, when I know for sure I'm not living in any unrepented sin, which is what I was doing before. Too often we seem to get the idea that God is a mean father who's always looking for any little thing He can punish us for, but the truth is just the opposite. “For he does not willingly bring affliction or grief to the children of men.” (Lamentations 3:33) I have to remind myself of that whenever I'm going through a hard time that seems to keep going on. Here's another verse I use during those times: “The Almighty is beyond our reach and exalted in power; in his justice and great righteousness, he does not oppress.” (Job 37:23) Another favorite is this one: “In all their distress he too was distressed, and the angel of his presence saved them. In his love and mercy he redeemed them; he lifted them up and carried them all the days of old.” (Isaiah 63:9) When I look back on my life though and see the ways God disciplined me and how He kept trying to get my attention and draw me back to Him, I'm amazed. I hate looking back because it shows me how horribly filthy and wicked I was. Knowing that every one of my nasty sins was put on my Jesus is enough to crush me. I hate that the pure and sinless Savior had to know and feel my filthy sins so that I could be saved. It certainly shows me that I deserve nothing at all but Hell from God. I seriously can't understand why in the world He would want anything at all to do with me. I'm afraid that I'll have to differ with Paul because I know that I'm a much worse sinner than he was! (“Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners—of whom I am the worst. But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his unlimited patience as an example for those who would believe on him and receive eternal life.” 1 Timothy 1:15–16)
And that reminds me of that this happens as we grow in our faith. The more mature we become in our faith, the more we realize just how much of a sinner we were; how evil we really are and would still be if the Lord hadn't changed us. Instead of seeing the sins of others, we tend to see our own sins and they seem much worse to us then they did when we were first saved, because now we're beginning to see our sin the way God sees it. All this happens not just because we've been saved for years, but because we've been spending time in God's Word for years, and He has used it to renew our minds so we can start to see things as He does.
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fearnot
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John 17
Feb 19, 2022 0:24:52 GMT -5
Post by fearnot on Feb 19, 2022 0:24:52 GMT -5
I totally agree, that we ( I) look at my sins and and they most certainly seem way worse now then they did at the beginning!
I kept falling asleep and had a fuzzy brain all day today.
Prayerfully, I will get some sleep tonight, and will be back posting....God willing.
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John 17
Feb 21, 2022 2:03:24 GMT -5
Post by fearnot on Feb 21, 2022 2:03:24 GMT -5
I've been having several days of super sleepy. Like Sat. we were going shopping at 1:00 I managed to get dressed but at 1:05 was still sleeping when Leonard woke me up, went shopping, put away everything ate dinner and back to sleep. weird.
Went to church today came home and sleeping until dinner, been awake...more or less, on and off until almost 11....hopefully I will be able to sleep now and not have another up all night arrgghhh.
And it's been a very deep sleep...
which is really nice for a change!
usually I have to get up 2-6 times a night to go to the bathroom.....
it is very very rare to sleep straight thru.
It seems I am either awake all night, and sleeping during the day,
or
sleeping round the clock,
or
awake around the clock
And that is why I have missed 3 days in a row posting.
I don't like to post when I am super tired, I make enough mistakes as it is, being tired, does not help.
I really want to get back, to doing Bible study. ( I am doing my own at home however, that can be done piecemeal, if necessary.)
We go to church on Sunday, Leonard has a men's Bible study Wed.
and we go to a small group Bible study Thurs.
I am usually tired after Church on Sunday and after Thur Bible study.
I really wish I had more energy....I just can't seem to figure out a way to get it....
I sometimes do lose heart....
yet I remind myself
Therefore we do not lose heart.
Though outwardly we are wasting away,
yet inwardly we are being renewed day by day.
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Post by Cindy on Feb 21, 2022 11:23:13 GMT -5
I know what you mean Barbara. I have a similar problem of not sleeping at night or not getting enough sleep at night. You should see what my face looks like without my glasses on! It's the first time in my life that I've been thankful that I wear glasses, because I have big dark circles under my eyes that won't go away. You're lucky that you can at least sleep during the daytime. I can't do that for some reason. The few times I have slept during the day, I was pretty sick, so Bruce knows that if it happens it's a warning signal.
It's just as well you didn't post here anyway as we need to wait for Eva to post. I do want to add something I've been thinking about, and that Eva had commented on too. I wanted to share something one of my commentaries said that I think you'll like.
Like Jesus, the Apostles took time for individuals. The best defense of the truth of the Christian faith is a changed life. The healed beggar was “Exhibit A” in Peter’s defense of the resurrection of Jesus Christ. The Methodist preacher Samuel Chadwick used to pray for “a Lazarus” in every campaign, some “great sinner” whose conversion would shock the community. He got the idea from John 12:9–11. “Meanwhile a large crowd of Jews found out that Jesus was there and came, not only because of him but also to see Lazarus, whom he had raised from the dead. So the chief priests made plans to kill Lazarus as well, for on account of him many of the Jews were going over to Jesus and putting their faith in him.” (John 12:9–11)
God answered his prayers in meeting after meeting as infamous wicked men trusted Christ and became witnesses through their changed lives. Let’s go after the “hard cases” and see what God can do! God has promised to bless and use His Word, so let’s be faithful to witness. Jesus even prayed that our witness would have success (John 17:20), so we have every reason to be encouraged. There is power in the name of Jesus, so we need not fear to witness and call sinners to repent. The Bible exposition commentary
To say that the unsaved will see our life and want what we have, is very true, even those who never accept Jesus. Who doesn't want peace instead of worry, stress and anxiety? A Christian that is living their faith and is somewhat mature will have that peace. When financial troubles come along, they won't panic. In fact it reminds me of a verse: “He will have no fear of bad news; his heart is steadfast, trusting in the LORD.” (Psalm 112:7)
It reminds me of what happened to me many years ago. Due to my ex-husband's mishandling our money, our house was in foreclosure. My best friend was scared to death that I wouldn't be able to find any place to live before the bank took our house, but I was at peace and kept telling her it would be all right because the Lord would find us a place to stay in His time, not ours. This went on for a month, then, just two days before the bank took our house and we would be out on the street, I saw an ad for an apartment and went to see it. It was the only place in our town that was asking for an amount that I could actually afford! Everyone I had talked to had said that no place in our town would rent for that low of a price, but this one man did! When I got saw the apartment I told the man I wanted it. He said another person was coming to see it and he would give it to whoever gave him the money first. I wasn't worried because I knew God had shown it to me because it was where He wanted me to live. So I went to the bank, got the money in cash and brought it back to the man. I think I was only gone maybe 15 minutes. The other person was there when I came in with the money. I simply apologized to them and handed him the money and the apartment was mine. We moved in with one day to spare! My friend told me later that she had been amazed at how calm and peaceful I was about finding a place to live and asked me why I wasn't anxious and worried. I told her it was because of Jesus, and knowing that I could count on the Lord. She's saved and has told others this story a number of times too.
What that taught me was that we never know who's watching or listening to us, and who may be affected by the things we do or say.
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fearnot
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John 17
Feb 21, 2022 12:42:58 GMT -5
Post by fearnot on Feb 21, 2022 12:42:58 GMT -5
That story is so much like the one we have about our place here in Seaside.....the very day we had to be out ( the landlord was going to tear down and build an office building in the place where we were staying)
We saw a place in Seaside, ( we had to be out in just an hour or two)
we called but the manager was not very optimistic we could get it
turns out someone wanted the little cottage/hut and was coming soon.
But we said we would take it sight unseen and come from Beaverton that day and pay and move in....
it wasn't sure we would get it tho,
the guy who wanted it was already in Seaside so he could get there way before us.
(That has actually happened more than once in our lives. However, it often is God provides for us at the last moment, when there is absolutely NO chance that we could find a place!
So it is only by His arrangement that it happens).
It turned out, the guy who was going to take the place here in Seaside, had in fact, gotten there before us, but decided not to take it after all...
I forget why... maybe too small and not modern enough etc.
oh and the small part that was carpeted, had a stain on it....
So when we turned up, we got it.
Then a few years later we moved to the one hut with a small little bit of land so I could plant....it had been the manager's but she moved.
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,441
Member is Online
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John 17
Feb 21, 2022 12:58:39 GMT -5
Post by fearnot on Feb 21, 2022 12:58:39 GMT -5
I was thinking about the unity Jesus talked about. I do not think He meant every church would be an exact cookie cutter clone of each other.
When I was a child, my adopted parents took me for a short time to a staid straitlaced New England congregational church,
very different in 'style'
from the Oregon coast Baptist church we attend today.
I do not see that New England church having a Baptismal inside the church,or the pastor never ever once crack any kind of joke etc.
( I am not referring to the apostate church where it is all entertainment, but rather a pastor who will sometimes say something funny)
However, both churches read the same Bible,
and the pastors preach on the same word of God,
the Christians all fellow-shipped with each other in love,
and grew in Christ likeness.
I am thinking its that kind of unity....standing on the Word of God, honoring Jesus as Lord and savior, etc. is the unity Jesus was speaking of.
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