fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,627
|
Post by fearnot on Jun 9, 2020 11:00:34 GMT -5
John doesn't often refer to himself by name, but in the next verse he does when interacting with the angel.
[smear:#1979e6]8 I, John, am the one who heard and saw these things. And when I heard and saw them, I fell down to worship at the feet of the angel who showed them to me, 9 but he said to me, “You must not do that! I am a fellow servant with you and your brothers the prophets, and with those who keep the words of this book. Worship God.” Revelation 22:8,9[/smear:#e61942:1]
John gives witness that he actually heard and saw these things. But because he is so overcome but the absolutely unimaginable magnitude of what he has just heard and seen, which his angelic host provided, he once again fall down to worship at the angels feet.
However, there are people and false doctrine, that does center on angel worship..... No matter, how powerful, brilliant, beautiful, magnificent they are, they are created beings.....in God's service!!
Therefore we all have to be careful not to fall into the subtle temptation to worship what is 'good', beautiful, powerful, etc, in place of, God, who alone is to be worshiped.
Angels did not create everything, the cannot save us for all eternity from our sins.
This brings to mind this verse:
[smear:#0af5f3]18 Let no one disqualify you, insisting on asceticism and worship of angels, going on in detail about visions, puffed up without reason by his sensuous mind, Colossians 2:18[/smear:#830254:0]
And so the angel reminds John that God alone is the only acceptable Person to worship. The Bible forbids the worship of angels, aliens, saints, the Virgin Mary, powerful people, or any other created being....Only God, is the Creator of all!
[smear:#f610ac] 10 And he said to me, “Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time is near. Revelation 22:10[/smear:#6ee619:0] So tho some avoid the book of Revelation, it is made clear, we are NOT to do that. It is not to be hid under a bushel, or a rock, or buried ....rather than 'sealing it up' we are to proclaim it.....because the end IS really near.
People often scoff and mock those 'crazy' folks ( and maybe some are....but on the other hand) those in the street with a sign saying: The end is near
Well.....it is!
It is near....how near I for sure, do not know
If it were another 50 years ( Please Lord not so ....but your timing not mine) but even IF... that long
( and I personally do not think it is anywhere near that long...
it could even be today.... but days, weeks, months, a few years.....
but......no matter it is NEAR.... SOON Very soon!!
Jesus IS coming back and we need to be spreading the gospel maybe not on the street with a sign, The end is coming but there are many many ways to be doing so and because, I believe we are getting so much closer now
Just look at the amazing and chilling transformation going on world wide now mind boggling events its to the point each day I wake up ( tho I am trying not to focus very much on the news any more Still.... I wonder.....so what new crazy thing today??? But..... this all does 'prove' the Bible and it is only going to get worse
That does not mean, maybe.....( tho I am beginning to wonder about this even) maybe Things will go back to a 'kind of' normal..... for a short time.... I guess we will see but it won't last. and it will get worse again.....worse and worse
We need to live our every day life, in the truth that Jesus IS coming back and 'soon'!!!
Done for today
|
|
|
Post by Cindy on Jun 9, 2020 11:45:11 GMT -5
I did not say much about these verses yesterday so a wee bit today
[smear:#19e69b]6 The angel said to me, “These words are trustworthy and true. The Lord, the God who inspires the prophets, sent his angel to show his servants the things that must soon take place. 7 “Look, I am coming soon! Blessed is the one who keeps the words of the prophecy written in this scroll.”” Revelation 22:6,7[/smear:#f37905:0]
I am think Jesus saying He is coming soon can be looked at in a couple of different ways. One way, that might have confused people and given the skeptics joy is thinking that Jesus meant he was coming in a few days....in John's time.
People often forget, time is not the same for God as for us humans
( and actually God created time....because He always has been and always will be... in essence time does not actually exist for God, except for the fact He set it in motion and we have it right now...at least that is my understanding) , But this verse must never be forgotten when thinking about time from God's perspective:
[smear:#f20e2b]8 But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. 2 Peter 3:8[/smear:#a40df6:0]
So 'soon' from God's perspective makes even 2,000 like about 2 days that is still very soon!!!
However, another way of looking at 'soon' can mean suddenly... like ....unexpectedly fast.... when no one is'expecting Him 'boom' in a twinkling of an eye...
And by the way, this ought to be a great motivation for godly living.
And we are also to keep the prophecy of this book Which is going to be hard since first of all most people avoid Revelation the the plague ( even more than the Corina virus) or often the whole Bible
Revelation is a part of the Bible and we need to always compare scripture with scripture
in order to have the whole council of God.
We need to read everything in the Bible that God says on any topic
( that was one of the main purposes of a concordance )
otherwise, a person could take one verse out of the Bible, and make it say something completely false.... not having all of God's word on the subject.
[smear:#75b110] 27 For I have not hesitated to proclaim to you the whole will of God.
Acts 20:27[/smear:#e619bd:0]
As believers, we are called to read, study, memorize, apply God's Word to our lives, guard, and defend scripture.
We study and defend it against critics who deny its Truth and authority, and against confused interpreters who obscure its meaning ( or from those who do it on purpose)
[smear:#40b963] 35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will not pass away. Matthew 24:35[/smear:#9919e6:0]
and Jesus said:
[smear:#b8e619]15 “If you love me, you will keep my commandments. John 14:15[/smear:#db19e6:0]
We desire to please our Lord and Savior, to become more Holy ( we can't know any of this without knowing His Word, the Bible).
We don't read Revelation 'merely 'to satisfy our curiosity about the future.... or for entertainment but rather we have revealed to us God's glory, so we can live a godly life in view of His soon return.
I do like something MacArthur said
What if someone were to ask....well what IF this was a forgery? And Pastor John MacArthur made the point that: ".......forgers don’t write books that exalt Christ and condemn humanity." LOL I have to agree with that!!
Some people are going to still say, this is a fairy tail and because it has not yet happened therefore it will not happen that is like saying I am not going to die because I have not died.
And so people keep God word, at best, in low esteem, or worse. They are willingly ignorant of God's Word first and foremost, is they love their sins.
But for those who point out the long length of time from our human perspective, we need to keep this verse in mind: [smear:#027076] 9 The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance. 2 Peter 3:9[/smear:#f0a348:0]
Done for today
Very good points! I'd like to point out one other thing about this verse. This is the only book in the Bible that promises a blessing to those who read it and "keep it's words". In other words, those who read it and take what it says to heart and act on what it says in their daily lives. Revelation actually contains more promises of blessing than any other book of Scripture.
“Blessed is the one who reads the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear it and take to heart what is written in it, because the time is near.” (Revelation 1:3)
“Then I heard a voice from heaven say, “Write: Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on.” “Yes,” says the Spirit, “they will rest from their labor, for their deeds will follow them.”” (Revelation 14:13)
““Behold, I come like a thief! Blessed is he who stays awake and keeps his clothes with him, so that he may not go naked and be shamefully exposed.”” (Revelation 16:15)
“Then the angel said to me, “Write: ‘Blessed are those who are invited to the wedding supper of the Lamb!’ ” And he added, “These are the true words of God.”” (Revelation 19:9)
“Blessed and holy are those who have part in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.” (Revelation 20:6)
““Behold, I am coming soon! Blessed is he who keeps the words of the prophecy in this book.”” (Revelation 22:7)
““Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city.” (Revelation 22:14)
|
|
fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,627
|
Post by fearnot on Jun 9, 2020 12:39:10 GMT -5
Today's post is above your as it often is :)
|
|
|
Post by Cindy on Jun 10, 2020 9:12:37 GMT -5
John doesn't often refer to himself by name, but in the next verse he does when interacting with the angel.
[smear:#1979e6]8 I, John, am the one who heard and saw these things. And when I heard and saw them, I fell down to worship at the feet of the angel who showed them to me, 9 but he said to me, “You must not do that! I am a fellow servant with you and your brothers the prophets, and with those who keep the words of this book. Worship God.” Revelation 22:8,9[/smear:#e61942:1]
John gives witness that he actually heard and saw these things. But because he is so overcome but the absolutely unimaginable magnitude of what he has just heard and seen, which his angelic host provided, he once again fall down to worship at the angels feet.
However, there are people and false doctrine, that does center on angel worship..... No matter, how powerful, brilliant, beautiful, magnificent they are, they are created beings.....in God's service!!
Therefore we all have to be careful not to fall into the subtle temptation to worship what is 'good', beautiful, powerful, etc, in place of, God, who alone is to be worshiped.
Angels did not create everything, the cannot save us for all eternity from our sins.
This brings to mind this verse:
[smear:#0af5f3]18 Let no one disqualify you, insisting on asceticism and worship of angels, going on in detail about visions, puffed up without reason by his sensuous mind, Colossians 2:18[/smear:#830254:0]
And so the angel reminds John that God alone is the only acceptable Person to worship. The Bible forbids the worship of angels, aliens, saints, the Virgin Mary, powerful people, or any other created being....Only God, is the Creator of all!
[smear:#f610ac] 10 And he said to me, “Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time is near. Revelation 22:10[/smear:#6ee619:0] So tho some avoid the book of Revelation, it is made clear, we are NOT to do that. It is not to be hid under a bushel, or a rock, or buried ....rather than 'sealing it up' we are to proclaim it.....because the end IS really near.
People often scoff and mock those 'crazy' folks ( and maybe some are....but on the other hand) those in the street with a sign saying: The end is near
Well.....it is!
It is near....how near I for sure, do not know
If it were another 50 years ( Please Lord not so ....but your timing not mine) but even IF... that long
( and I personally do not think it is anywhere near that long...
it could even be today.... but days, weeks, months, a few years.....
but......no matter it is NEAR.... SOON Very soon!!
Jesus IS coming back and we need to be spreading the gospel maybe not on the street with a sign, The end is coming but there are many many ways to be doing so and because, I believe we are getting so much closer now
Just look at the amazing and chilling transformation going on world wide now mind boggling events its to the point each day I wake up ( tho I am trying not to focus very much on the news any more Still.... I wonder.....so what new crazy thing today??? But..... this all does 'prove' the Bible and it is only going to get worse
That does not mean, maybe.....( tho I am beginning to wonder about this even) maybe Things will go back to a 'kind of' normal..... for a short time.... I guess we will see but it won't last. and it will get worse again.....worse and worse
We need to live our every day life, in the truth that Jesus IS coming back and 'soon'!!!
Done for today
Good! Yeah, the one good thing about covid is that it shut people up about the transgender garbage for a time.
|
|
fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,627
|
Post by fearnot on Jun 10, 2020 11:21:03 GMT -5
Good thing I was not drinking my tea at the moment I read this.....you made me laugh LOL
"Good! Yeah, the one good thing about covid is that it shut people up about the transgender garbage for a time."
I guess that goes to prove there are silver linings in the craziest of things :)
|
|
fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,627
|
Post by fearnot on Jun 10, 2020 11:34:39 GMT -5
As we are coming closer to the end.....( of the book of Revelation) we read this verse:
[smear:#a937eb]11 Let the evildoer still do evil, and the filthy still be filthy, and the righteous still do right, and the holy still be holy.” Revelation 22:11[/smear:#41dd35:0]
For those who have rejected God's Word, love, salvation etc. then let him or her be......and death will only make permanent what your life was.....evil will stay evil and holy will remain holy.
[smear:#39cbbe]27 But when I speak with you, I will open your mouth, and you shall say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord God.’ He who will hear, let him hear; and he who will refuse to hear, let him refuse, Ezekiel 3:27[/smear:#d0712b:0]
If God's Word and love will not change a man, if he steadfastly remains entrenched in his or her sins, and hates God, then they will get what they want ( no God forever). Their their eternal destiny in hell is fixed
Which reminds us of this verse:
[smear:#e6b719]15 For we are the aroma of Christ to God among those who are being saved and among those who are perishing, 16 to one a fragrance from death to death, to the other a fragrance from life to life. 2 Corinthians 2:15,16[/smear:#8519e6:0]
One character, unless changed by God, tends to become more fixed with a life time of habits, the heart is hardened, and generally the end of life will prevent any change ( tho it could happen but I am guessing it is rare).
[smear:#338134] 12 Indeed, all who desire to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted, 13 while evil people and impostors will go on from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived 2 Timothy 3:12,13[/smear:#8119e6:0]
One's deliberate choices will have fixed his eternal fate,
The next verses are:
[smear:#f9491b]12 “Behold, I am coming soon, bringing my recompense with me, to repay each one for what he has done. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.” Revelation 22:12,13[/smear:#4519e6:0]
I have already talked about the time element in the word 'soon' So soon is soon even tho its been 2,000 years ( or from God's perspective 2 days) In any case.....it still is an encouragement for this verse:
[smear:#b8a14c]33 Be on guard, keep awake. For you do not know when the time will come. Mark 13:33[/smear:#1920e6:0]
Has our life been such that we are:
[smear:#5d9e02]but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys and where thieves do not break in and steal. Matthew 6:20[/smear:#ba19e6:0]
And there is this verse to ponder:
[smear:#97194a]27 For the Son of Man is going to come with his angels in the glory of his Father, and then he will repay each person according to what he has done. Matthew 16:27 [/smear:#1979e6:1]
Things like faithful, loving, obedient, worshipful service to God, daily Bible study, and urgent proclamation of the gospel to unbelievers. I am thinking some of us may be house bound, so how can we get the message to unbelievers? Well, while we still can, we have the internet, and we can do it that way, or leave tracks around if we can, we can also pray for them.
I love that God ( the Father, Jesus and the Holy Spirit) are the Alpha and he Omega....
Some verses to that effect:
[smear:#5ec670]Who has performed and done this, calling the generations from the beginning? I, the Lord, the first, and with the last; I am he. Isaiah 41:4[/smear:#ba19e6:0]
[smear:#a119e6]17 And he is before all things, and in him all things hold together. Colossians 1:17[/smear:#19e6cf:0]
Done for today
|
|
fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,627
|
Post by fearnot on Jun 11, 2020 10:02:40 GMT -5
The next two verses in Revelation 22:
[smear:#19e66a] 14 Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they may have the right to the tree of life and that they may enter the city by the gates. 15 Outside are the dogs and sorcerers and the sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices falsehood. Revelation 22:14,15[/smear:#f4730b:0]
Having been saved by Jesus, and thus have washed their robes in the righteousness of Christ, they are blessed and will also have a right to the Tree of Life, therefore are entitled to live forever, in Heaven. The sin filled unbeliever will also live forever, but in Hell and it is also called the 2nd death, because tho alive, it will be as dead.
Once saved, the we are do do 'works'....we don't do good 'works' in hopes of being saved, but it's our faith, in what Jesus has done.....but once saved, we are to do we need and want to be about our Father's business.
[smear:#db345a]3 And by this we know that we have come to know him, if we keep his commandments. 4 Whoever says “I know him” but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him, 5 but whoever keeps his word, in him truly the love of God is perfected. I John 2:3-5[/smear:#2ea29c:0]
Neglecting to keep His commandments, is demonstrating our lack of love for Him.
[smear:#35ae9a]22 But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves. James 1:22[/smear:#e619d4:0]
All unbelievers are outside, the city, and in the lake of fire.
Murderers this has to do with pre-meditated murder. it does not mean accidental killing or killing in war.
Idolaters are just those who put anything ahead of God ....this does not mean just statues made of wood, stone etc. it could be money, another human, the environment, an ideology, a false religion, etc. etc. etc.
all lies are acts of deception and can be very harmful and are a sin ( even a little 'white' lie).
It is not saying, if you have done any of these things you will never go to Heaven. it is if you love doing them, make them your life time habit(s), deny that they are 'sins', and even insist, they are your 'rights' and at the same time, reject what Jesus has done for you.
The next verse in Revelation is:
1[smear:#60e619]6 “I, Jesus, have sent my angel to testify to you about these things for the churches. I am the root and the descendant of David, the bright morning star.” Revelation 22:16[/smear:#741156:0]
We have not heard about the church since the letters to the church, and now it is mentioned again.
And the solution to the 'riddle' of :
4[smear:#1d8b22]1 Now while the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them a question, 42 saying, “What do you think about the Christ? Whose son is he?” They said to him, “The son of David.” 43 He said to them, “How is it then that David, in the Spirit, calls him Lord, saying,
44 “‘The Lord said to my Lord, “Sit at my right hand, until I put your enemies under your feet”’?
45 If then David calls him Lord, how is he his son?” 46 And no one was able to answer him a word, nor from that day did anyone dare to ask him any more questions. Matthew 41-46[/smear:#6d2a83:0]
The solution to the riddle is found in the fact of Jesus being eternal God, and in the incarnation of Jesus.
In His deity, Jesus is the God of David, hence He is David’s Lord...
But in His humanity, Jesus is in the line of descent from David—and thus the son of David. Therefore, Jesus is both David’s master, Lord and God, and his son.
And Jesus ( and His soon return...rapturing us) as the morning star, is the believer's light in this dark world.
However the believer's motivation to keep His commandments is found in our desire, and in preparation for His appearing.
[smear:#e69319]8 Henceforth there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, will award to me on that day, and not only to me but also to all who have loved his appearing.
[/smear:#e619d4:0]
And thus the next verse in Revelation 22 is our priority and chief joy. [smear:#9b19e6]
17 The Spirit and the Bride say, “Come.” And let the one who hears say, “Come.” And let the one who is thirsty come; let the one who desires take the water of life without price. Revelation 22:17[/smear:#fb0afa:0]
The first half of this verse are the believers cry ( frankly we are tired of sin and evil and long to be with Jesus)
The second half of the verse, is the last call for unbelieving sinners to come.....
Clearly, not all sinners will 'come' but there are those who are beginning to be 'woke' to evil, and sin, and they are starting to 'thirst'
for the truth, for salvation, for true love....etc. for a Savior ( but not just any Savior...... the 'true', one and only Savior, Jesus who died for them).
Perhaps I will add to this tomorrow or..... maybe you will :)
Done for today
|
|
fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,627
|
Post by fearnot on Jun 12, 2020 11:19:13 GMT -5
So to add a bit more from yesterday to this verse....
When we are really desperately thirsty, we recognize we have a desperate need, and this is true in the spiritual sense also.... our soul is so dry, that everything has basically shriveled up and died....well almost but there is yet hope in this verse. . [smear:#cc19e6]17 The Spirit and the Bride say, “Come.” And let the one who hears say, “Come.” And let the one who is thirsty come; let the one who desires take the water of life without price. Revelation 22:17[/smear:#59e619:0]
Of course by now, we know where we go to quench that spiritual thirst:
[smear:#9319e6]35 Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me shall not hunger, and whoever believes in me shall never thirst. John 6:35[/smear:#0bb69c:0]
Some are so desperate they are willing to pay any price for relief.....but WOW it is without price we could never pay enough....
[smear:#4aafe2]“Come, everyone who thirsts, come to the waters; and he who has no money, come, buy and eat! Come, buy wine and milk without money and without price. Isaiah 55:1[/smear:#e844c9:0]
People greatly and mightily need to be forgiven, and our need for true truth is extreme, we are dying to be truly loved and saved and so our thirst is enormous, extreme and immense....but its cure is through Jesus, and we will never thirst again.
Which reminds me of Joshua Aaron's latest song about the Spirit and the Bride
The screen goes black about 1/2 through, but in seconds it goes on, with these very verses posted...and then he sings come in Hebrew ( in fact, he sings it in Hebrew and English).
And we are reminded of this verse also:
[smear:#45a94c]1 As a deer pants for flowing streams, so pants my soul for you, O God. 2 My soul thirsts for God, for the living God. Psalm 42:1,2[/smear:#46399c:0]
and this
[smear:#2d642f]37 On the last day of the feast, the great day, Jesus stood up and cried out, “If anyone thirsts, let him come to me and drink. John 7:37[/smear:#e6197e:0]
Only 3 more verses....perhaps tomorrow and/or the next next day, I will finish Done for today.
|
|
|
Post by Cindy on Jun 12, 2020 11:51:53 GMT -5
Good thing I was not drinking my tea at the moment I read this.....you made me laugh LOL
"Good! Yeah, the one good thing about covid is that it shut people up about the transgender garbage for a time."
I guess that goes to prove there are silver linings in the craziest of things :)
As we are coming closer to the end.....( of the book of Revelation) we read this verse:
[smear:#a937eb]11 Let the evildoer still do evil, and the filthy still be filthy, and the righteous still do right, and the holy still be holy.” Revelation 22:11[/smear:#41dd35:0]
For those who have rejected God's Word, love, salvation etc. then let him or her be......and death will only make permanent what your life was.....evil will stay evil and holy will remain holy.
[smear:#39cbbe]27 But when I speak with you, I will open your mouth, and you shall say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord God.’ He who will hear, let him hear; and he who will refuse to hear, let him refuse, Ezekiel 3:27[/smear:#d0712b:0]
If God's Word and love will not change a man, if he steadfastly remains entrenched in his or her sins, and hates God, then they will get what they want ( no God forever). Their their eternal destiny in hell is fixed
Which reminds us of this verse:
[smear:#e6b719]15 For we are the aroma of Christ to God among those who are being saved and among those who are perishing, 16 to one a fragrance from death to death, to the other a fragrance from life to life. 2 Corinthians 2:15,16[/smear:#8519e6:0]
One character, unless changed by God, tends to become more fixed with a life time of habits, the heart is hardened, and generally the end of life will prevent any change ( tho it could happen but I am guessing it is rare).
[smear:#338134] 12 Indeed, all who desire to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted, 13 while evil people and impostors will go on from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived 2 Timothy 3:12,13[/smear:#8119e6:0]
One's deliberate choices will have fixed his eternal fate,
The next verses are:
[smear:#f9491b]12 “Behold, I am coming soon, bringing my recompense with me, to repay each one for what he has done. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.” Revelation 22:12,13[/smear:#4519e6:0]
I have already talked about the time element in the word 'soon' So soon is soon even tho its been 2,000 years ( or from God's perspective 2 days) In any case.....it still is an encouragement for this verse:
[smear:#b8a14c]33 Be on guard, keep awake. For you do not know when the time will come. Mark 13:33[/smear:#1920e6:0]
Has our life been such that we are:
[smear:#5d9e02]but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys and where thieves do not break in and steal. Matthew 6:20[/smear:#ba19e6:0]
And there is this verse to ponder:
[smear:#97194a]27 For the Son of Man is going to come with his angels in the glory of his Father, and then he will repay each person according to what he has done. Matthew 16:27 [/smear:#1979e6:1]
Things like faithful, loving, obedient, worshipful service to God, daily Bible study, and urgent proclamation of the gospel to unbelievers. I am thinking some of us may be house bound, so how can we get the message to unbelievers? Well, while we still can, we have the internet, and we can do it that way, or leave tracks around if we can, we can also pray for them.
I love that God ( the Father, Jesus and the Holy Spirit) are the Alpha and he Omega....
Some verses to that effect:
[smear:#5ec670]Who has performed and done this, calling the generations from the beginning? I, the Lord, the first, and with the last; I am he. Isaiah 41:4[/smear:#ba19e6:0]
[smear:#a119e6]17 And he is before all things, and in him all things hold together. Colossians 1:17[/smear:#19e6cf:0]
Done for today
Good!
This verse is interesting in that there are basically two different ways it's translated. The way you showed it is the short way,
"Let the evildoer still do evil, and the filthy still be filthy, and the righteous still do right, and the holy still be holy.” (Revelation 22:11 ESV)
and this is the longer version of that verse:
“Let him who does wrong continue to do wrong; let him who is vile continue to be vile; let him who does right continue to do right; and let him who is holy continue to be holy.”” (Revelation 22:11 NIV)
You said one thing that I think should be clarified. I know what you meant, but it could be confusing to others: "If God's Word and love will not change a man, if he steadfastly remains entrenched in his or her sins, and hates God, then they will get what they want ( no God forever). Their their eternal destiny in hell is fixed." God's Word never fails, and we know too that love never fails (1 Cor 13:8) The only reason a person remains entrenched in their sins and hates God, or simply is indifferent toward God, is because they have refused His offer of salvation. Because of that, they will go to Hell. But God does not just give His love to everyone regardless of their choices. Nor will His Word be really understood by a person who is not saved and does not have the Holy Spirit to teach them it's meaning. (you can buy many commentaries today written by unsaved people who haven't a clue what His Word means!) Instead, God offers His gift of salvation to everyone. If they accept it, then He pours out His love into their hearts, and the Holy Spirit takes up residence in them to teach them and guide them. It is then that His Word will change them as they read and study it daily.
The next two verses in Revelation 22:
[smear:#19e66a] 14 Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they may have the right to the tree of life and that they may enter the city by the gates. 15 Outside are the dogs and sorcerers and the sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices falsehood. Revelation 22:14,15[/smear:#f4730b:0]
Having been saved by Jesus, and thus have washed their robes in the righteousness of Christ, they are blessed and will also have a right to the Tree of Life, therefore are entitled to live forever, in Heaven. The sin filled unbeliever will also live forever, but in Hell and it is also called the 2nd death, because tho alive, it will be as dead.
Once saved, the we are do do 'works'....we don't do good 'works' in hopes of being saved, but it's our faith, in what Jesus has done.....but once saved, we are to do we need and want to be about our Father's business.
[smear:#db345a]3 And by this we know that we have come to know him, if we keep his commandments. 4 Whoever says “I know him” but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him, 5 but whoever keeps his word, in him truly the love of God is perfected. I John 2:3-5[/smear:#2ea29c:0]
Neglecting to keep His commandments, is demonstrating our lack of love for Him.
[smear:#35ae9a]22 But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves. James 1:22[/smear:#e619d4:0]
All unbelievers are outside, the city, and in the lake of fire.
Murderers this has to do with pre-meditated murder. it does not mean accidental killing or killing in war.
Idolaters are just those who put anything ahead of God ....this does not mean just statues made of wood, stone etc. it could be money, another human, the environment, an ideology, a false religion, etc. etc. etc.
all lies are acts of deception and can be very harmful and are a sin ( even a little 'white' lie).
It is not saying, if you have done any of these things you will never go to Heaven. it is if you love doing them, make them your life time habit(s), deny that they are 'sins', and even insist, they are your 'rights' and at the same time, reject what Jesus has done for you.
The next verse in Revelation is:
1[smear:#60e619]6 “I, Jesus, have sent my angel to testify to you about these things for the churches. I am the root and the descendant of David, the bright morning star.” Revelation 22:16[/smear:#741156:0]
We have not heard about the church since the letters to the church, and now it is mentioned again.
And the solution to the 'riddle' of :
4[smear:#1d8b22]1 Now while the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them a question, 42 saying, “What do you think about the Christ? Whose son is he?” They said to him, “The son of David.” 43 He said to them, “How is it then that David, in the Spirit, calls him Lord, saying,
44 “‘The Lord said to my Lord, “Sit at my right hand, until I put your enemies under your feet”’?
45 If then David calls him Lord, how is he his son?” 46 And no one was able to answer him a word, nor from that day did anyone dare to ask him any more questions. Matthew 41-46[/smear:#6d2a83:0]
The solution to the riddle is found in the fact of Jesus being eternal God, and in the incarnation of Jesus.
In His deity, Jesus is the God of David, hence He is David’s Lord...
But in His humanity, Jesus is in the line of descent from David—and thus the son of David. Therefore, Jesus is both David’s master, Lord and God, and his son.
And Jesus ( and His soon return...rapturing us) as the morning star, is the believer's light in this dark world.
However the believer's motivation to keep His commandments is found in our desire, and in preparation for His appearing.
[smear:#e69319]8 Henceforth there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, will award to me on that day, and not only to me but also to all who have loved his appearing.
[/smear:#e619d4:0]
And thus the next verse in Revelation 22 is our priority and chief joy. [smear:#9b19e6]
17 The Spirit and the Bride say, “Come.” And let the one who hears say, “Come.” And let the one who is thirsty come; let the one who desires take the water of life without price. Revelation 22:17[/smear:#fb0afa:0]
The first half of this verse are the believers cry ( frankly we are tired of sin and evil and long to be with Jesus)
The second half of the verse, is the last call for unbelieving sinners to come.....
Clearly, not all sinners will 'come' but there are those who are beginning to be 'woke' to evil, and sin, and they are starting to 'thirst'
for the truth, for salvation, for true love....etc. for a Savior ( but not just any Savior...... the 'true', one and only Savior, Jesus who died for them).
Perhaps I will add to this tomorrow or..... maybe you will :)
Done for today
Good job! I'm afraid I don't have time today, I should have stopped an hour ago....sorry!
|
|
fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,627
|
Post by fearnot on Jun 12, 2020 12:30:17 GMT -5
Again...today's post is above your post for today :)
|
|
fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,627
|
Post by fearnot on Jun 13, 2020 12:50:47 GMT -5
Now for the last verses in the book of Revelation
[smear:#815be7]18 I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book, 19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.
20 He who testifies to these things says, “Surely I am coming soon.” Amen. Come, Lord Jesus!
21 The grace of the Lord Jesus be with all. Amen. Revelation 22:18-21[/smear:#e619be:0]
In the beginning of the Bible, God gives us the promise of a Savior, from our sins and from the devil ( Satan):
[smear:#6a2d16]15 "........................he shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heel.” Genesis 3:15[/smear:#2b19e6:0]
Verse 20 confirms Jesus is coming again, this time as conqueror and Judge ( no matter how long the delay 'seems' to us).
Unbelievers will scoff because 2,000 plus years has gone by
( he already came as Savior).
Which is why this verse says:
[smear:#19d7e6]4 They will say, “Where is the promise of his coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all things are continuing as they were from the beginning of creation.” 2 Peter 3:4[/smear:#56c104:0]
And yet, many of these scoffers, will also hold to a bizarre belief that everybody can or will go to Heaven
But Heaven is NOT for everyone, those who all their life did not seek after God, did not want Jesus as their Savior ( Jesus....they only spoke His name ( and/or God the Father's name) to curse.
A requirement of Heaven is to be forgiven..... but they did not ask for forgiveness, rather, they demanded that their sins were a 'RIGHT'!
And even those who held steadfastly, to the idea, there is no God, were, at the same time, angry by the Christian belief there is only ONE way to Heaven.
The fact IS: Heaven IS exclusive... not everybody will be there
not those who explicitly did NOT want to go to Heaven.... those who they think they will 'party' with other 'freedom' rebels forever in Hell.....
they did not or do not want to go to Heaven with the 'boring', 'goody two shoes, harp players in Heaven
( and so they will get their desire.....
but not the 'party' part)
Remember the list of some of those who will not go ( the list is not an exhaustive list by the way) [smear:#19e661] 8 But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.” Revelation 21:8[/smear:#0c2745:0]
In scripture we can find even more character/sinful habitual traits...
it is NOT, that if you were ever one of these people, or practiced even one of the many sins, then you will be forever excluded from Heaven
You CAN be forgiven, Jesus CAN save you...
[smear:#549710]17 But thanks be to God, that you who were once slaves of sin have become obedient from the heart to the standard of teaching to which you were committed, Romans: 6:17[/smear:#6019e6:0]
Even tho we once did these and/or many more sins:
[smear:#5d0b87]6 On account of these the wrath of God is coming. 7 In these you too once walked, when you were living in them. 8 But now you must put them all away: anger, wrath, malice, slander, and obscene talk from your mouth. Colossians 3:6-8[/smear:#0e9b4a:0]
We can receive mercy and salvation [smear:#8d5cc8] 10 Once you were not a people, but now you are God's people; once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy. 1 Peter 2:10[/smear:#429eae:0]
However: we also get a 'warning' in these last verses
Now for the last verses in the book of Revelation
[smear:#815be7]18 I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book, 19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.
20 He who testifies to these things says, “Surely I am coming soon.” Amen. Come, Lord Jesus!
21 The grace of the Lord Jesus be with all. Amen. Revelation 22:18-21[/smear:#e619be:0]
DO NOT ADD TO THE BIBLE nor TAKE AWAY FROM
Some people want to say: Well it JUST means ONLY the book of Revelations in the Bible
But... no.....
There is this verse saying essentially the exact same thing:
[smear:#f70f3b]2 You shall not add to the word that I command you, nor take from it, ......" Deuteronomy 4:2[/smear:#3006ef:0]
Also this verse:
[smear:#641aaa]32 “Everything that I command you, you shall be careful to do. You shall not add to it or take from it. Deuteronomy 12:32 [/smear:#f60b24:0]
Also:
[smear:#19e645]5 Every word of God proves true; he is a shield to those who take refuge in him. 6 Do not add to his words, Proverbs 30:5,6[/smear:#e61934:0]
And as to the: do not take away from the Word
there is this:
[smear:#f80bc4] 2 “Thus says the Lord: Stand in the court of the Lord's house, and speak to all the cities of Judah that come to worship in the house of the Lord all the words that I command you to speak to them; do not hold back a word. Jeremiah 26:2[/smear:#3f19e6:0]
If someone deliberately adds to it ( this is NOT a warning to a Bible believing commentator,) but rather someone with the intent of deception, or 'hearing' ( a new Word from God) an thus add to the word from God....the completed Bible ( or so they 'think' or say they head from God,.....via the Holy Spirit) etc. But if they 'heard' something, then it was from a demon or Satan, who can appear as an 'angel of light'.
But really, the book of Revelation, goes to the end of time as we know it....
it goes all the way to the destruction of this universe, and the Creation of the eternal universe......
so there is NOTHING new to add.
If a person does ADD to the Bible..... then.... the plagues in Revelation ( and perhaps in all of Scripture will be..... added to that person)
and if they likewise, take away from the Bible ( like for example: German higher criticism) then... God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city
But again, suppose you did this before you actually understood what these words meant ( or perhaps you did it before you even read Revelation)
then this curse is not for you
but for those who engage in deliberate falsification, with a willful assault on the truth.
Jesus IS coming and all believers can joyfully say:
come, Lord Jesus
At the same time, while we are here....we can pray for all the unbelievers, and when possible in whatever way we can... give them the gospel.
5 As it is said,
[smear:#33e619]“Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion.” Hebrews 3:15[/smear:#7d19e6:0]
And this verse:
[smear:#d819e6]2 For he says,
“In a favorable time I listened to you, and in a day of salvation I have helped you.”
Behold, now is the favorable time; behold, now is the day of salvation. 2 Corinthians 6:2 [/smear:#42cc7d:0]
Who does not want God's love
and
grace which is often explained this way:
God's Riches At Christ's Expense
I finished a day ahead of time So I may start tomorrow on End times questions, etc.
Done for today.
|
|
fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,627
|
Post by fearnot on Jun 14, 2020 23:55:57 GMT -5
One of the questions I have concerning end times ( with everyone but especially children) Is the truth and reality of Hell.
It seems to me that years ago....maybe a 100 years or so, pastors would preach on many things, but certainly would not neglect Hell....but somewhere along the time line, it seems like that became an almost taboo subject. Pastors were accused of manipulating people by 'scaring' them.....trying to get them to Heaven by the fear of Hell. And so it seems to me, that many pastors now specialize in telling people how much God loves them. This of course is true..... but so is Hell.
I think it may be perhaps a grave mistake to not talk about the truth of 'fire and brimstone' of being apart from God for all eternity...
And I wonder about when and if one should speak to children about this side of the truth.
Today was the first time in about a year I did not do a full Bible study....I went to church for the first time in 3 months, and Leonard read to both of us from the Bible and I read some.....but today I cannot fathom how it slipped passed me.
I know a year or two ago it also happened, and I do not wish for it to ever happen again...unless I am in the hospital so sick, I am out cold or something.....
Anyway, I am not sure as how to proceed exactly with applying scripture and this world going crazy so that it truly seems the end times are rushing upon us so fast now.
it seems like every day there are dozens of issues.... virus issues protests, riots, defund the police, take overs of cities which lives matter ( black, babies, are there really 'races at all? etc) school ( what is taught or home school etc) gender fluidity our faith other religions etc etc.
And what does God word the Bible say to all of these issues and many others.
But just how should we do this?
Anyway, Jesus said: [smear:#0d727e] 18 And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. Matthew 16:18[/smear:#c719e6:0]
And this:
[smear:#bc451e]35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away. Matthew 24:35[/smear:#3cc640:0]
|
|
|
Post by Cindy on Jun 15, 2020 10:54:30 GMT -5
So to add a bit more from yesterday to this verse....
When we are really desperately thirsty, we recognize we have a desperate need, and this is true in the spiritual sense also.... our soul is so dry, that everything has basically shriveled up and died....well almost but there is yet hope in this verse. . [smear:#cc19e6]17 The Spirit and the Bride say, “Come.” And let the one who hears say, “Come.” And let the one who is thirsty come; let the one who desires take the water of life without price. Revelation 22:17[/smear:#59e619:0]
Of course by now, we know where we go to quench that spiritual thirst:
[smear:#9319e6]35 Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me shall not hunger, and whoever believes in me shall never thirst. John 6:35[/smear:#0bb69c:0]
Some are so desperate they are willing to pay any price for relief.....but WOW it is without price we could never pay enough....
[smear:#4aafe2]“Come, everyone who thirsts, come to the waters; and he who has no money, come, buy and eat! Come, buy wine and milk without money and without price. Isaiah 55:1[/smear:#e844c9:0]
People greatly and mightily need to be forgiven, and our need for true truth is extreme, we are dying to be truly loved and saved and so our thirst is enormous, extreme and immense....but its cure is through Jesus, and we will never thirst again.
Which reminds me of Joshua Aaron's latest song about the Spirit and the Bride
The screen goes black about 1/2 through, but in seconds it goes on, with these very verses posted...and then he sings come in Hebrew ( in fact, he sings it in Hebrew and English).
And we are reminded of this verse also:
[smear:#45a94c]1 As a deer pants for flowing streams, so pants my soul for you, O God. 2 My soul thirsts for God, for the living God. Psalm 42:1,2[/smear:#46399c:0]
and this
[smear:#2d642f]37 On the last day of the feast, the great day, Jesus stood up and cried out, “If anyone thirsts, let him come to me and drink. John 7:37[/smear:#e6197e:0]
Only 3 more verses....perhaps tomorrow and/or the next next day, I will finish Done for today.
Amazing...every human being alive today longs to know the Truth about everything, and they search far and wide for it, getting into every eastern religion and every cult they can find in order to find the truth. Yet they hear people around them all the time telling them that Jesus is the Truth and that He will show and teach them the truth and it's all for free....but they won't even bother to check into it. Instead they run off to some cult to find the truth. And by doing that it usually either costs them a lot of money, or it costs them the loss for their family and friends, and in some cases it costs them their life. Sadly they would rather drink the kool aid from a cult leader then come to Jesus who loves them.
Now for the last verses in the book of Revelation
[smear:#815be7]18 I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book, 19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.
20 He who testifies to these things says, “Surely I am coming soon.” Amen. Come, Lord Jesus!
21 The grace of the Lord Jesus be with all. Amen. Revelation 22:18-21[/smear:#e619be:0]
In the beginning of the Bible, God gives us the promise of a Savior, from our sins and from the devil ( Satan):
[smear:#6a2d16]15 "........................he shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heel.” Genesis 3:15[/smear:#2b19e6:0]
Verse 20 confirms Jesus is coming again, this time as conqueror and Judge ( no matter how long the delay 'seems' to us).
Unbelievers will scoff because 2,000 plus years has gone by
( he already came as Savior).
Which is why this verse says:
[smear:#19d7e6]4 They will say, “Where is the promise of his coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all things are continuing as they were from the beginning of creation.” 2 Peter 3:4[/smear:#56c104:0]
And yet, many of these scoffers, will also hold to a bizarre belief that everybody can or will go to Heaven
But Heaven is NOT for everyone, those who all their life did not seek after God, did not want Jesus as their Savior ( Jesus....they only spoke His name ( and/or God the Father's name) to curse.
A requirement of Heaven is to be forgiven..... but they did not ask for forgiveness, rather, they demanded that their sins were a 'RIGHT'!
And even those who held steadfastly, to the idea, there is no God, were, at the same time, angry by the Christian belief there is only ONE way to Heaven.
The fact IS: Heaven IS exclusive... not everybody will be there
not those who explicitly did NOT want to go to Heaven.... those who they think they will 'party' with other 'freedom' rebels forever in Hell.....
they did not or do not want to go to Heaven with the 'boring', 'goody two shoes, harp players in Heaven
( and so they will get their desire.....
but not the 'party' part)
Remember the list of some of those who will not go ( the list is not an exhaustive list by the way) [smear:#19e661] 8 But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.” Revelation 21:8[/smear:#0c2745:0]
In scripture we can find even more character/sinful habitual traits...
it is NOT, that if you were ever one of these people, or practiced even one of the many sins, then you will be forever excluded from Heaven
You CAN be forgiven, Jesus CAN save you...
[smear:#549710]17 But thanks be to God, that you who were once slaves of sin have become obedient from the heart to the standard of teaching to which you were committed, Romans: 6:17[/smear:#6019e6:0]
Even tho we once did these and/or many more sins:
[smear:#5d0b87]6 On account of these the wrath of God is coming. 7 In these you too once walked, when you were living in them. 8 But now you must put them all away: anger, wrath, malice, slander, and obscene talk from your mouth. Colossians 3:6-8[/smear:#0e9b4a:0]
We can receive mercy and salvation [smear:#8d5cc8] 10 Once you were not a people, but now you are God's people; once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy. 1 Peter 2:10[/smear:#429eae:0]
However: we also get a 'warning' in these last verses
Now for the last verses in the book of Revelation
[smear:#815be7]18 I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book, 19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.
20 He who testifies to these things says, “Surely I am coming soon.” Amen. Come, Lord Jesus!
21 The grace of the Lord Jesus be with all. Amen. Revelation 22:18-21[/smear:#e619be:0]
DO NOT ADD TO THE BIBLE nor TAKE AWAY FROM
Some people want to say: Well it JUST means ONLY the book of Revelations in the Bible
But... no.....
There is this verse saying essentially the exact same thing:
[smear:#f70f3b]2 You shall not add to the word that I command you, nor take from it, ......" Deuteronomy 4:2[/smear:#3006ef:0]
Also this verse:
[smear:#641aaa]32 “Everything that I command you, you shall be careful to do. You shall not add to it or take from it. Deuteronomy 12:32 [/smear:#f60b24:0]
Also:
[smear:#19e645]5 Every word of God proves true; he is a shield to those who take refuge in him. 6 Do not add to his words, Proverbs 30:5,6[/smear:#e61934:0]
And as to the: do not take away from the Word
there is this:
[smear:#f80bc4] 2 “Thus says the Lord: Stand in the court of the Lord's house, and speak to all the cities of Judah that come to worship in the house of the Lord all the words that I command you to speak to them; do not hold back a word. Jeremiah 26:2[/smear:#3f19e6:0]
If someone deliberately adds to it ( this is NOT a warning to a Bible believing commentator,) but rather someone with the intent of deception, or 'hearing' ( a new Word from God) an thus add to the word from God....the completed Bible ( or so they 'think' or say they head from God,.....via the Holy Spirit) etc. But if they 'heard' something, then it was from a demon or Satan, who can appear as an 'angel of light'.
But really, the book of Revelation, goes to the end of time as we know it....
it goes all the way to the destruction of this universe, and the Creation of the eternal universe......
so there is NOTHING new to add.
If a person does ADD to the Bible..... then.... the plagues in Revelation ( and perhaps in all of Scripture will be..... added to that person)
and if they likewise, take away from the Bible ( like for example: German higher criticism) then... God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city
But again, suppose you did this before you actually understood what these words meant ( or perhaps you did it before you even read Revelation)
then this curse is not for you
but for those who engage in deliberate falsification, with a willful assault on the truth.
Jesus IS coming and all believers can joyfully say:
come, Lord Jesus
At the same time, while we are here....we can pray for all the unbelievers, and when possible in whatever way we can... give them the gospel.
5 As it is said,
[smear:#33e619]“Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion.” Hebrews 3:15[/smear:#7d19e6:0]
And this verse:
[smear:#d819e6]2 For he says,
“In a favorable time I listened to you, and in a day of salvation I have helped you.”
Behold, now is the favorable time; behold, now is the day of salvation. 2 Corinthians 6:2 [/smear:#42cc7d:0]
Who does not want God's love
and
grace which is often explained this way:
God's Riches At Christ's Expense
I finished a day ahead of time So I may start tomorrow on End times questions, etc.
Done for today.
Good job!
|
|
fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,627
|
Post by fearnot on Jun 15, 2020 11:01:20 GMT -5
So since you are not here yet to tell me how to do this and I don't want to miss another Bible study day
I will just take a look at what the Bible says about Hell since I don't really know what age to talk to children about Hell ( if their age should matter?) how much should be discuss ( age appropriate?) and so on
I will for today, look a wee bit at what the Bible says about Hell
For one thing, Jesus talked a great deal about both Heaven and Hell
One thing seems clear Jesus spoke of Hell as a real, literal, absolute, actual, factual place for souls of unbelievers.
So here are some, a few quotes from Jesus ( enough to establish a base line or foundation, that Jesus did in fact speak of Hell, as an irrefutable 'real' place:
[smear:#499e0f]22 But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother will be liable to the council; and whoever says, ‘You fool!’ will be liable to the hell of fire. Matthew 5:22[/smear:#36b4ab:0]
[smear:#e619b2]28 And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell. Matthew 10:28[/smear:#3a2da2:0]
[smear:#488a9e]33 You serpents, you brood of vipers, how are you to escape being sentenced to hell? Matthew 23:33[/smear:#e6c719:0]
[smear:#bc09a4]23 and in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side. Luke 16:23 [/smear:#19e650:0]
[smear:#e5d055]41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. Matthew 25:41[/smear:#e61934:0]
There are many other such verses.
However, it seems Jesus did not fear talking about this subject, least it offend someone, or might 'seem 'like He was trying to scare them from going to Hell, and thus being saved and going to Heaven.
We often hear people say: Well, 'MY" God is not a mean god, who will torture people for all eternity, for some 'mistakes', bad choices, or errors they might have made!!!!
At least in part in a strange way to some extent it is NOT that God sent them their for their sins ( tho that is also true) but it is in one way....they sent themselves there They did not want to be healed from their sins
They choose not to see themselves as sinners... rather
they were 'born' that way it is their 'right' to live and be 'themselves' Jesus, God, the Bible etc. is 'boring'
they want to live an exciting, 'FREE', life, as a wild thing, a rebel without a cause, captain of their own boat etc etc.
They most certainly do not want to be a slave/servant of God they want to be king, even a god to themselves in fact some really believe they are in fact either god inside themselves or are heading to godhood.
The point is people choose to go to Hell some even openly say they WANT to go there and party with all their friends instead of sitting for all eternity playing a harp on a cloud ( I am not sure where they come up with that idea when the Bible speaks of a New Heaven and a New Earth so amazing we cannot even imagine ( no matter how great our imaginations are)!
At some point when such people have hardened their hearts so much and turned from God repeatedly .... He gives them what their desire....eternity without Him.
We see in this verse for example God does eventually give them up to what they want
[smear:#44a451]28 And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done. Romans 1:28[/smear:#97282e:0]
But that does not answer the question about should parents or grandparents, or Sunday school teachers etc. censor parts of what the Bible teaches, as too scary, too manipulative etc. for children?
Tho before we get into that I must point out, some kids cartoons, video games, music videos, comics, etc etc. are filled with 'scary' things!!
So should we just focus on the 'truth" that God is love, God loves you soooo much ( all of which IS true...) until perhaps when they are older, and then maybe bring up another aspect of God's character ( as judge) and Hell?
To me, there is no question, that Hell is terrifying no matter what you age!!
And I have often thought, THE most terrifying aspect of Hell is being separated from God for all eternity!!
I am thinking that perhaps any discussion about Hell ( no matter what the person's age) has to be paired with Heaven
To focus on either one without the other can have grave consequences
I am thinking of our society today ( and tho many unbelievers don't really think about, desire etc. God) They are in one sense being told a 'type' of scriptural/Christian doctrine
In that the message they are getting is 'You are loved' but without limits, rules, boundaries, God etc etc. they mostly become self-centered, deluded, 'brats'.
While at the same time, if asked if they are 'good' people and IF there was a Heaven would they go there They almost to the last person would say yes they are 'good' therefore they would be bound for heaven and not hell.
Well, as you can probably see, I am leaning towards children should be told about Hell I don't see in Scripture that God tell us, to wait for a certain age to be reached, before telling some parts of scripture.
so far, what I do read, is we should be teaching children the Bible as per this verse:
[smear:#338f3e]9 You shall teach them to your children, talking of them when you are sitting in your house, and when you are walking by the way, and when you lie down, and when you rise. Deuteronomy 11:19 [/smear:#e64cfa:0]
I want to mention tho I had a friend/roommate in my college days She was getting her PHD from Yale She went on to teach in many various colleges all over the country
A year or two I did a search for her only to read her sad opinion that Christian parents are child abusers because they teach their children from the Bible and thus should have the children taken away, and go to prison
This is a PHD professor who had taught at Stanford Univ, and all manner of elite colleges in the US So my 'friend' would be certainly horrified at the position I am taking and I feel so sad for her, and all the college kids that looked up to her and her feminist, anti-Christian etc. ideas.
Done for today.
|
|
|
Post by Cindy on Jun 16, 2020 10:00:33 GMT -5
I didn't reply to this post yesterday because it didn't say you were done...so I wasn't sure what to do...
One of the questions I have concerning end times ( with everyone but especially children) Is the truth and reality of Hell.
It seems to me that years ago....maybe a 100 years or so, pastors would preach on many things, but certainly would not neglect Hell....but somewhere along the time line, it seems like that became an almost taboo subject. Pastors were accused of manipulating people by 'scaring' them.....trying to get them to Heaven by the fear of Hell. And so it seems to me, that many pastors now specialize in telling people how much God loves them. This of course is true..... but so is Hell.
I think it may be perhaps a grave mistake to not talk about the truth of 'fire and brimstone' of being apart from God for all eternity...
And I wonder about when and if one should speak to children about this side of the truth.
Today was the first time in about a year I did not do a full Bible study....I went to church for the first time in 3 months, and Leonard read to both of us from the Bible and I read some.....but today I cannot fathom how it slipped passed me.
I know a year or two ago it also happened, and I do not wish for it to ever happen again...unless I am in the hospital so sick, I am out cold or something.....
Anyway, I am not sure as how to proceed exactly with applying scripture and this world going crazy so that it truly seems the end times are rushing upon us so fast now.
it seems like every day there are dozens of issues.... virus issues protests, riots, defund the police, take overs of cities which lives matter ( black, babies, are there really 'races at all? etc) school ( what is taught or home school etc) gender fluidity our faith other religions etc etc.
And what does God word the Bible say to all of these issues and many others.
But just how should we do this?
Anyway, Jesus said: [smear:#0d727e] 18 And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. Matthew 16:18[/smear:#c719e6:0]
And this:
[smear:#bc451e]35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away. Matthew 24:35[/smear:#3cc640:0]
Just because you're unsure how to go about a specific study, is no reason to miss doing a bible study at all. In a case like that, simply choose a book you feel like reading some from and do a study on a chapter of that book. Or you can do a study on a scripture that comes to your mind that you want to know more about. If nothing else though, simply read a chapter in any book of the Bible and do a study on that.
You really don't need me to tell you how to do it. What would you do if I wasn't around for some reason and you had to talk about hell to someone, perhaps a child. Where would you go in the bible for help? You know the Bible isn't going to tell you what age to talk to a child about a specific subject, but God does tell us when and how we should talk to children about His Word and what it says: “These commandments that I give you today are to be upon your hearts. Impress them on your children. Talk about them when you sit at home and when you walk along the road, when you lie down and when you get up.” (Deuteronomy 6:6–7) “We will not hide them from their children; we will tell the next generation the praiseworthy deeds of the LORD, his power, and the wonders he has done.” (Psalm 78:4) You could also consider this scripture: “and how from infancy you have known the holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.” (2 Timothy 3:15) Remember too that when they read the Bible to the people after rebuilding the walls around Jerusalem, which people did they summon to listen to the Word being read? Every man, woman AND CHILD! Women held newborns and fussy toddlers, but every living being was there to here God's Word read from sun up to sun down. So if you pray about it and then reflect on these verses and any others the Lord brings to your mind, you will know when to talk to your grandchildren about it.
So since you are not here yet to tell me how to do this and I don't want to miss another Bible study day
I will just take a look at what the Bible says about Hell since I don't really know what age to talk to children about Hell ( if their age should matter?) how much should be discuss ( age appropriate?) and so on I will for today, look a wee bit at what the Bible says about Hell
For one thing, Jesus talked a great deal about both Heaven and Hell
One thing seems clear Jesus spoke of Hell as a real, literal, absolute, actual, factual place for souls of unbelievers.
So here are some, a few quotes from Jesus ( enough to establish a base line or foundation, that Jesus did in fact speak of Hell, as an irrefutable 'real' place:
[smear:#499e0f]22 But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother will be liable to the council; and whoever says, ‘You fool!’ will be liable to the hell of fire. Matthew 5:22[/smear:#36b4ab:0]
[smear:#e619b2]28 And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell. Matthew 10:28[/smear:#3a2da2:0]
[smear:#488a9e]33 You serpents, you brood of vipers, how are you to escape being sentenced to hell? Matthew 23:33[/smear:#e6c719:0]
[smear:#bc09a4]23 and in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side. Luke 16:23 [/smear:#19e650:0] [smear:#e5d055]41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. Matthew 25:41[/smear:#e61934:0]
There are many other such verses.
However, it seems Jesus did not fear talking about this subject, least it offend someone, or might 'seem 'like He was trying to scare them from going to Hell, and thus being saved and going to Heaven.
We often hear people say: Well, 'MY" God is not a mean god, who will torture people for all eternity, for some 'mistakes', bad choices, or errors they might have made!!!!
At least in part in a strange way to some extent it is NOT that God sent them their for their sins ( tho that is also true) but it is in one way....they sent themselves there They did not want to be healed from their sins
They choose not to see themselves as sinners... rather
they were 'born' that way it is their 'right' to live and be 'themselves' Jesus, God, the Bible etc. is 'boring'
they want to live an exciting, 'FREE', life, as a wild thing, a rebel without a cause, captain of their own boat etc etc.
They most certainly do not want to be a slave/servant of God they want to be king, even a god to themselves in fact some really believe they are in fact either god inside themselves or are heading to godhood.
The point is people choose to go to Hell some even openly say they WANT to go there and party with all their friends instead of sitting for all eternity playing a harp on a cloud ( I am not sure where they come up with that idea when the Bible speaks of a New Heaven and a New Earth so amazing we cannot even imagine ( no matter how great our imaginations are)!
At some point when such people have hardened their hearts so much and turned from God repeatedly .... He gives them what their desire....eternity without Him.
We see in this verse for example God does eventually give them up to what they want
[smear:#44a451]28 And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done. Romans 1:28[/smear:#97282e:0]
But that does not answer the question about should parents or grandparents, or Sunday school teachers etc. censor parts of what the Bible teaches, as too scary, too manipulative etc. for children?
Tho before we get into that I must point out, some kids cartoons, video games, music videos, comics, etc etc. are filled with 'scary' things!!
So should we just focus on the 'truth" that God is love, God loves you soooo much ( all of which IS true...) until perhaps when they are older, and then maybe bring up another aspect of God's character ( as judge) and Hell?
To me, there is no question, that Hell is terrifying no matter what you age!!
And I have often thought, THE most terrifying aspect of Hell is being separated from God for all eternity!!
I am thinking that perhaps any discussion about Hell ( no matter what the person's age) has to be paired with Heaven
To focus on either one without the other can have grave consequences
I am thinking of our society today ( and tho many unbelievers don't really think about, desire etc. God) They are in one sense being told a 'type' of scriptural/Christian doctrine
In that the message they are getting is 'You are loved' but without limits, rules, boundaries, God etc etc. they mostly become self-centered, deluded, 'brats'.
While at the same time, if asked if they are 'good' people and IF there was a Heaven would they go there They almost to the last person would say yes they are 'good' therefore they would be bound for heaven and not hell.
Well, as you can probably see, I am leaning towards children should be told about Hell I don't see in Scripture that God tell us, to wait for a certain age to be reached, before telling some parts of scripture.
so far, what I do read, is we should be teaching children the Bible as per this verse:
[smear:#338f3e]9 You shall teach them to your children, talking of them when you are sitting in your house, and when you are walking by the way, and when you lie down, and when you rise. Deuteronomy 11:19 [/smear:#e64cfa:0]
I want to mention tho I had a friend/roommate in my college days She was getting her PHD from Yale She went on to teach in many various colleges all over the country
A year or two I did a search for her only to read her sad opinion that Christian parents are child abusers because they teach their children from the Bible and thus should have the children taken away, and go to prison
This is a PHD professor who had taught at Stanford Univ, and all manner of elite colleges in the US So my 'friend' would be certainly horrified at the position I am taking and I feel so sad for her, and all the college kids that looked up to her and her feminist, anti-Christian etc. ideas.
Done for today.
Yes, age matters and you should always speak to children in a way they can understand. I'm not talking about using baby talk, but rather you should use normal every day words that they can understand. The main thing you have to take into consideration when speaking to a child is that they have a short attention span. So if you want to talk about Hell you should always also include how to avoid hell, so that they will know that they control where they will spend eternity. That way they don't have to fear it.
I'm surprised that you just posted Luke 16:23 when the entire section was all about hell. Luke 16:19–31 is a great way to introduce the concept of hell to anyone. (at least, I think it's a great way to introduce the subject, as it includes both heaven and hell). I think I've mentioned this before, but this isn't a made up parable. Most commentators agree that these men, Lazarus and Dives, really existed and were both well known, as was their deaths.
You said that "in part" God sends people to hell, but that's not true. Unbelievers chose to go to hell, they are not forced to go there. Remember, our choices are made here in this world, not after "death". (I put death that way because everyone will be even more alive then they were here!) Unbelievers choose to either hate God and all He stands for, or they choose to simply ignore Him as though He didn't exist and wasn't important if He did. They have all been told that if they don't except His offer of salvation that they will go to Hell. Their response has been either "so what? I don't care", or "great!" They will not regret their choice until they stand before Jesus at the Great White Throne Judgment, at which point it will be impossible for anyone's choice to be changed. Therefore God does not make them go to hell; they choose it, because they don't want Him.
The way you are describing it, as though it's partly God's fault and partly there's is a lot like the way my middle son was thinking when he told me that" if I didn't allow his girlfriend to live with us, that he would quit school and it would ruin his whole life and it would be all my fault! " I'm afraid I burst out laughing at that one as it was so ridiculous! but the idea behind his bad reasoning, is the same as what you're using. But then you went on to say that people choose to go to hell themselves, which is true. So it's just that first part that gives the wrong idea.
And no, none of those tells us when to talk to children about hell or if we should talk to them about it. However, you did the write thing by going to the Bible to find your answer. You were just looking in the wrong place. Did you ask the Lord to show you the answer to your question?
But see, you got the part about telling them about heaven as well as about hell, and how they can get to heaven, without me telling you! And you found Deuteronomy 11:19 without me too! Very good! You kind of took the long way around, but the Holy Spirit brought you to the right scriptures and gave you the right ideas.
|
|
fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,627
|
Post by fearnot on Jun 16, 2020 11:35:43 GMT -5
Oh the reason I said 'in part', is because I was thinking of predestination, that God choose before, time began, those who would be saved.
I know there is a paradox between: Free Will ( the choice is 100% ours as to our salvation) and Predestination: where God made the choice beforehand of who would be saved
And if one sides on the predestination side, then people say that is totally unfair, That God would choose some, and not others So that some never had a chance.
However, God did not have to save anyone at all. It is not that God is being unfair Actually, justice would demand we all get what we deserve which would be Hell because we are all sinners...
Rather God is being compassionate to some.
I have always kind of thought tho That both are working in a way ( perhaps in a mysterious way that is beyond me, but is true nevertheless?)
We do choose None are seeking God That is a choice
But perhaps I have that all wrong?
Anyway, that was why I worded it that way
Oh this verse was very helpful, on the age question
“and how from infancy you have known the holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.”
|
|
|
Post by Cindy on Jun 17, 2020 10:58:31 GMT -5
Oh the reason I said 'in part', is because I was thinking of predestination, that God choose before, time began, those who would be saved.
I know there is a paradox between: Free Will ( the choice is 100% ours as to our salvation) and Predestination: where God made the choice beforehand of who would be saved
And if one sides on the predestination side, then people say that is totally unfair, That God would choose some, and not others So that some never had a chance.
However, God did not have to save anyone at all. It is not that God is being unfair Actually, justice would demand we all get what we deserve which would be Hell because we are all sinners...
Rather God is being compassionate to some.
I have always kind of thought tho That both are working in a way ( perhaps in a mysterious way that is beyond me, but is true nevertheless?)
We do choose None are seeking God That is a choice
But perhaps I have that all wrong?
Anyway, that was why I worded it that way
Oh this verse was very helpful, on the age question
“and how from infancy you have known the holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.” Concerning predestination and saying that God chooses who will go to hell at least partially, that still isn't true. But it's a common misunderstanding about predestination. God never, ever chooses anyone to not be saved. He only chooses some to be saved. Rather then explain it myself, I'll quote Wiersbe so that you'll know it's not just my idea: “he predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will—” (Ephesians 1:5) He has adopted us (v. 5). Here we meet that misunderstood word predestination. This word, as it is used in the Bible, refers primarily to what God does for saved people. Nowhere in the Bible are we taught that people are predestined to hell, because this word refers only to God’s people. The word simply means “to ordain beforehand, to predetermine.” Election seems to refer to people, while predestination refers to purposes. The events connected with the crucifixion of Christ were predestined (Acts 4:25–28). God has predestined our adoption (Eph 1:5), and our conformity to Christ (Rom. 8:29–30), as well as our future inheritance (Eph. 1:11).
From Matthew 25:31–46 The Sheep and the Goats Judgment
Matthew 25:41 does not state that the everlasting fire was prepared for the goats. It was prepared for the devil and his angels (Rev. 20:10). God never prepared hell for people. There is no evidence from Scripture that God predestines people to go to hell. If sinners listen to Satan, and follow his ways, they will end up where he ends up—in the torments of hell. Wiersbe, Warren W., The Bible Exposition Commentary
I hope this helps, I know it sure helped me understand it better. I'm glad that verse helped some. So what do you think about telling kids about hell now? (you may have answered that question in your next post lol I won't know till I read it!
I am thinking maybe a lot of people are stressed, fearful, confused, worried, etc because 2020 has turned out to be a very bizarre year so far.
We've gone from a deadly virus ( to start the year off) to protests of the police killing a black man that has led to riots and now to taking over parts of cities.
So I am thinking, we might look at these things from a Biblical point of view, as to what is going on. How to explain it should anyone ask what we think and how should we react etc. Also, it is very hard to even know for sure on a secular level what is 'real', what are lies, what are conspiracies and so on. And so there is a lot of insecurity ( waiting for the next shoe to drop so to speak, as we fear even more chaos and violence).
So where can a person turn to find truth and peace in the midst of a world going mad?
To start God's Word ( the Bible) is true So in a world of deception and lies abounding that is the place to go in troubling times.
[smear:#44ae48]".....Let God be true though every one were a liar,...." Romans 3:4[/smear:#208489:0]
And as far as lies go who is THE ultimate liar? [smear:#67071d] 44 You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks out of his own character, for he is a liar and the father of lies. John 8:44[/smear:#020656:0]
Who are the 'you' this verse address....all who are not saved for sure but that is not to say, even those converted, who can still sin ( and lie for example)
[smear:#8619e6]17 For the desires of the flesh are against the Spirit, and the desires of the Spirit are against the flesh, for these are opposed to each other, to keep you from doing the things you want to do. Galatians 5:17[/smear:#e64019:0]
Actually, I think, that verse gives us a clue to how we Christians can begin to view incorrectly the craziness that is going on today.... anger, fear, depression etc etc. is just waiting on our doorstep, if we don't get a grip from God's word.
Jesus said, in the book of John:
[smear:#286e39]17 Sanctify them in the truth; your word is truth. John 17:17[/smear:#6d3e93:0]
Someone might say: Well the Bible is this old ancient book, how can it have any relevance to today...they did not have any of the tech advances we have today. True but people have NOT changed or advanced Did they have hatred back them or wars or injustices etc. etc. etc. yes
But more importantly it is God's word God knows the beginning from the end and He had a lot to say about our times as well, so it's wisdom is timeless, for all people for all times, and therefore is compelling and up to date and current.
[smear:#af3b06]12 For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart. Hebrews 4:12[/smear:#5c1aa1:0]
and this
[smear:#64e619]16 All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work. 2 Timothy 3:16,17[/smear:#e6192e:0]
Just my opinion, but a lot of what is going on today does not seem to be 'good work' ...and some of the many things scripture tells us, is about, love, salvation, forgiveness, how to live our lives etc. But also, what is going on today.
Let's not get confused about 'good works' tho
[smear:#3a9034]"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that NOT OF YOURSELVES; it is the gift of God: NOT OF WORKS, lest any man should boast" Ephesians 2:8,9[/smear:#307382:0]
So here is a verse written long ago, but is applicable for today: [smear:#7619e6] Hear, O heavens, and give ear, O earth; for the Lord has spoken: “Children have I reared and brought up, but they have rebelled against me.[/smear:#e6191f:0] Isaiah 1:2
and this
[smear:#e61925]5 ....Why will you continue to rebel? The whole head is sick, and the whole heart faint. 6 From the sole of the foot even to the head, there is no soundness in it, but bruises and sores and raw wounds; Your country lies desolate; your cities are burned with fire; Isaiah 1:5-7[/smear:#4319e6:1]
Have we changed that much? Have we evolved to peaceful people or does anger and rage rule at the drop of a hat?
Well more tomorrow Done for today
Ok, I'm not sure where you're going with this now... are you done with the whole "hell" thing? I assume this is the next subject you want to deal with, then, right? if so, we need to start a new thread. If it's about this subject you can start it in this forum too.
|
|
fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,627
|
Post by fearnot on Jun 17, 2020 11:35:22 GMT -5
It is a new subject.
But as to the question about telling children about Hell I kind of thought as far as talking to the kids about Hell, you had given me basically your thoughts on it, and I was to ask God in prayer for further direction.
What I did understand from your post was:
"always speak to children in a way they can understand. not to use baby talk, but rather you should use normal every day words that they can understand".
keep in mind when speaking to a child is that they have a short attention span". ( that is for sure with Rylan and actually Aaliyah also)
"always also include how to avoid hell, so that they will know that they control where they will spend eternity. That way they don't have to fear it".
"I'm surprised that you just posted Luke 16:23"
(that was kind of for 2 reasons.....one I thought I might include more of it later... and 2.... I was thinking about short attention spans)
"Did you ask the Lord to show you the answer to your question"?
( This was what made me think, you had given me a good foundation as you could, but really, now I needed to go in pray and back to the Bible for further direction.
A few other verses that was confusing the predestination issue were these:
"19 You will say to me then, “Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?” 20 But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?” 21 Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use? 22 What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23 in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory..." Romans 9:19-23
But after reading your post, I read John MacArthur's commentary on these verses and he basically said the same thing you did.
I won't quote the whole thing, as you already understand it... but because I was confused and someone might read this besides you, I will just give a snippet and they could always go look and find the rest if they want.
So pastor MacArthur said in part this:
"You realize the difference between active and passive? In active, the subject does the acting and in passive the subject receives the action.
Now notice, verse 22 is a passive, vessels of wrath fitted to destruction. God is not the subject. The verb is passive.
Verse 23, vessels of mercy which He had prepared to glory. God, there, is the subject and the verb is active.
Listen, God says I prepare vessels for glory, but vessels are prepared for destruction. And what is happening there in the Greek tense, is God is taking one step away from the responsibility of preparing a person from His creative act for hell.
God doesn't take that responsibility. He says there are vessels that have been prepared for destruction.
And if you study the Bible very carefully you will see that every where in Scripture the responsibility for such preparation lies right in the very heart of the man who goes to hell.
Is that right? Jesus said, "You will not come to me, that you might have life." At the end of the Book of Revelation He says, "Come, and let him that is athirst come." And so God says, I fit for glory, but vessels are fitted for destruction. Judas was not created by God to occupy hell. Another reason I know that is that hell was never even made for human beings. It was made for the devil and his angels. Judas went there because Judas chose to betray Christ, chose to reject the truth, chose to pay a sad, sad price".
|
|
|
Post by Cindy on Jun 18, 2020 10:27:22 GMT -5
It is a new subject.
But as to the question about telling children about Hell I kind of thought as far as talking to the kids about Hell, you had given me basically your thoughts on it, and I was to ask God in prayer for further direction.
What I did understand from your post was:
"always speak to children in a way they can understand. not to use baby talk, but rather you should use normal every day words that they can understand".
keep in mind when speaking to a child is that they have a short attention span". ( that is for sure with Rylan and actually Aaliyah also)
"always also include how to avoid hell, so that they will know that they control where they will spend eternity. That way they don't have to fear it".
"I'm surprised that you just posted Luke 16:23"
(that was kind of for 2 reasons.....one I thought I might include more of it later... and 2.... I was thinking about short attention spans)
"Did you ask the Lord to show you the answer to your question"?
( This was what made me think, you had given me a good foundation as you could, but really, now I needed to go in pray and back to the Bible for further direction.
A few other verses that was confusing the predestination issue were these:
"19 You will say to me then, “Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?” 20 But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?” 21 Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use? 22 What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23 in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory..." Romans 9:19-23
But after reading your post, I read John MacArthur's commentary on these verses and he basically said the same thing you did.
I won't quote the whole thing, as you already understand it... but because I was confused and someone might read this besides you, I will just give a snippet and they could always go look and find the rest if they want.
So pastor MacArthur said in part this:
"You realize the difference between active and passive? In active, the subject does the acting and in passive the subject receives the action.
Now notice, verse 22 is a passive, vessels of wrath fitted to destruction. God is not the subject. The verb is passive.
Verse 23, vessels of mercy which He had prepared to glory. God, there, is the subject and the verb is active.
Listen, God says I prepare vessels for glory, but vessels are prepared for destruction. And what is happening there in the Greek tense, is God is taking one step away from the responsibility of preparing a person from His creative act for hell.
God doesn't take that responsibility. He says there are vessels that have been prepared for destruction.
And if you study the Bible very carefully you will see that every where in Scripture the responsibility for such preparation lies right in the very heart of the man who goes to hell.
Is that right? Jesus said, "You will not come to me, that you might have life." At the end of the Book of Revelation He says, "Come, and let him that is athirst come." And so God says, I fit for glory, but vessels are fitted for destruction. Judas was not created by God to occupy hell. Another reason I know that is that hell was never even made for human beings. It was made for the devil and his angels. Judas went there because Judas chose to betray Christ, chose to reject the truth, chose to pay a sad, sad price".
Ok, that's good! I'm glad you understand about predestination now....well, as much as anyone can understand it lol. That's one of the things we eventually have to just accept that we won't ever completely understand it until we get to heaven.
This is no longer about the book of revelation, but our world is rapidly speeding towards it. All the things that are going on now, have happened in the past. But the difference is, now they are all happening essentially at the same time and not in just one or two countries but is world wide.
This verse is the new normal for most of the world ( in the past there was more truth, now it is getting harder and harder to find)
[smear:#e619c7]Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter! Isaiah 5:20[/smear:#20860d:0]
and this also is mostly the new normal of today worldwide:
[smear:#e6193c]For your hands are defiled with blood and your fingers with iniquity; your lips have spoken lies; your tongue mutters wickedness. Isaiah 59:3[/smear:#f4e80a:1]
Of course, this is human sinful nature but now the thin veneer of polite society and the true nature of mankind is becoming glaringly evident It has done so in so many gruesome wars in the past one group against another, one country against another and we had 2 'world wars' in which many countries were involved.
But the world today, is seeing many many more Biblical prophetic signs happening all at the same time in greater amounts Wars insects damage hatred earthquakes weather going crazy virus etc.
This virus ( tho there have been worse one) seems to be the first, to make the whole world come to a halt. People all over the world needed to stay at home to keep it from spreading but.... When one man was killed unjustly
Then the stay at home order, no longer applied to those who wanted to protest and then turn into a rioting mob which turned into totally hatred of the police and authority then defunding the police and taking over cities so that lawlessness is the rule and is praised.
So now some Criminals become heroes, and many heroes are slandered, defamed, vilified, debased, and have targets on their backs to be killed.
Where are we? Where we have always been, but with the thin cover removed These verses show us the truth:
[smear:#e64819]10 "as it is written:None is righteous, no, not one; 11 no one understands; no one seeks for God. 12 All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one.” 13 “Their throat is an open grave; they use their tongues to deceive.” “The venom of asps is under their lips.” 14 “Their mouth is full of curses and bitterness.” 15 “Their feet are swift to shed blood; 16 in their paths are ruin and misery, 17 and the way of peace they have not known.” 18 “There is no fear of God before their eyes.” Romans 3:10-18[/smear:#08f873:0]
How hard is the world seeking for God?
Is rioting a 'good' thing? Protesting and wanting 'good' change is fine but are the people rioting, giving money to the families unjustly treated whose loved ones died? Have they given the same 'compassion' to the black policeman killed ( and offered to help their families also) Are they putting their money, time,effort, help etc. to those families as well as their mouth and anger
And speaking of their mouths Are they full of cursing? I was listening to some youths yesterday at a vacation rental across the street Singing loudly a 'song'? And the only words they sang over and over Was: I don't give a ( F word)!!
Are their mouths full of 'bitterness'
But this is not just about them this is about human nature being shown more and more for what it is really like and it is world wide.
Do some actually believe that what they are doing is somehow 'righteous' no doubt but it is by human standards, not God's.
[smear:#19e61c]17 Now this I say and testify in the Lord, that you must no longer walk as the Gentiles do, in the futility of their minds. 18 They are darkened in their understanding, alienated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them, due to their hardness of heart. Ephesians 4:17,18 [/smear:#19e0e6:0]
The sad truth is humans are murderous...have not all our endless wars proven that! Eighty-five million people killed by Hitler's reign alone
And one thing that is sadly ironic we are hearing: Black lives matter and they do!! But.... which babies are more aborted than any others? Black babies ( babies with more melanin) So why are not people protesting in front of abortion clinics?
Without God, people will have no restraint, and since our country and many others are doing all they can to stamp out Christianity we can expect this veil of a peaceful society to be less and less, and see more and more havoc, riots, chaos, killing, hatred etc etc. What is clear is we don't need a 'special' person like Hitler to be able to cause such misery, we are all capable, ordinary folks can become killers in a heartbeat. We can be hateful, prejudice, brutal, cruel, and what is worse people can enjoy being that way....there is a sense of power, control, which can give people an addictive rush a high like no other. In God's words:
.[smear:#1991e6].....who did not believe the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. 2 Thessalonians 2:12[/smear:#e319e6:0]
Some other words for unrighteousness: Wickedness, abominations, evil, heinousness, monstrousness, viciousness, etc etc.
but the sad point of this verse is there is 'pleasure' in sinfulness.
Done for today
Good, but you didn't start a new thread, so I guess I'll have to. We can't just keep writing in the same thread. We need to start a new thread each time the subject matter changes.
Here's a link to the new thread. I moved your last two posts about the new subject there:
I named it, The World Today and the Bible. It's in this forum.
|
|