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Post by Cindy on Apr 28, 2020 8:48:18 GMT -5
We looked in chapter 17 the destruction of 'religious' Babylon, now we will see the destruction of the economic, political Babylon,
and verse 1 shows us how it is announced:
[smear:#1dbb5b] "After this I saw another angel coming down from heaven, having great authority, and the earth was made bright with his glory" Revelation 18:1[/smear:#e619bc:0]
His brightness is an indication of his authority and high rank , chosen by God to declare what is coming.
We see something similar, for example, in Luke with the shepherds, at the birth of Jesus:
[smear:#19e639]9 And an angel of the Lord appeared to them, and the glory of the Lord shone around them, and they were filled with great fear. Luke 2:9[/smear:#e619bc:0]
This angel comes to an earth, in full moral and spiritual darkness, and his light must be all the more bright have come from a Holy Heaven.
We are going to look now at the destruction of Babylon:
[smear:#813f09]2 And he called out with a mighty voice,
“Fallen, fallen is Babylon the great! She has become a dwelling place for demons, a haunt for every unclean spirit, a haunt for every unclean bird, a haunt for every unclean and detestable beast. Revelation 18:2[/smear:#4de619:0]
[smear:#311b65]1 "The oracle concerning Babylon which Isaiah the son of Amoz saw......
13 Therefore I will make the heavens tremble, and the earth will be shaken out of its place, at the wrath of the Lord of hosts in the day of his fierce anger." Isaiah 13:1,13[/smear:#8a1440:0]
[smear:#e619c7]And behold, here come riders, horsemen in pairs!” And he answered, “Fallen, fallen is Babylon; and all the carved images of her gods he has shattered to the ground.” Isaiah 21:9[/smear:#19e685:0]
This angel is a divine herald ( no one can ignore him)
and he makes know an event of great consequence that is about to happen.... Babylon's her catastrophic and permanent destruction.
Babylon had said:
[smear:#19e665]You said, “I shall be mistress forever,” Isaiah 47:7[/smear:#19d8e6:0]
And tho, Babylon is a city, the influence of Babylon is worldwide. It is the capital city ( and the character ) of the Antichrist’s world wide rule. It has immense, universal, demonic influence.. she is both a a dwelling place and a prison of every of demons and unclean spirit .
Done for today
Good job Barbara!
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,468
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Post by fearnot on Apr 28, 2020 10:12:26 GMT -5
Thank you Cindy... I have just been pretty tired, so I know these are short and maybe not as logical as could be, but falling asleep while doing them, does not help :( LOL
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,468
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Post by fearnot on Apr 28, 2020 11:30:22 GMT -5
This Babylon system, both it's economic (a materialistic hypnosis) and it's hellish and Satanic worship of the anti-Christ is full of demonic world wide influence
[smear:#19e63c]For all nations have drunk the wine of the passion of her sexual immorality, and the kings of the earth have committed immorality with her, and the merchants of the earth have grown rich from the power of her luxurious living.” Revelation 18:3[/smear:#8919e6:0]
The nations of the world, are going to be drunk with the passion of having a relationship with Babylon. They all want to get immersed in the luxury, a sensuous way of life, and the sin of Babylon,... the wealth and economic center of the world. Babylon going to seduce the whole world.
In verse 4 we read:
[smear:#367f37]
4 Then I heard another voice from heaven saying,
“Come out of her, my people, lest you take part in her sins, lest you share in her plagues; Revelation 18:4[/smear:#1920e6:0]
It's seems a bit hard to know exactly who these people are, that the angel is talking to, but they are believers, who somehow are still caught up in some way, to some degree with Babylon.
Maybe they are a bit like Lot in the Old Testament Lot at the gates of Sodom, these people also unwisely remained, puttered around, and trifled, in their ungodly surroundings.
It reminds us of the first part of Isaiah 48:20
[smear:#e67e19]"Go out from Babylon, flee from Chaldea,.... Isaiah 48:20 [/smear:#6d0c72:0]
and
[smear:#e61927] “Flee from the midst of Babylon, and go out of the land of the Chaldeans,..." Jeremiah 50:8[/smear:#188c65:0]
and
[smear:#e6193f]“Flee from the midst of Babylon; let every one save his life! Be not cut off in her punishment, for this is the time of the Lord's vengeance, the repayment he is rendering her". Jeremiah 51:6[/smear:#3719e6:1]
and
[smear:#1c19e6] "We would have healed Babylon, but she was not healed. Forsake her, and let us go each to his own country, for her judgment has reached up to heaven and has been lifted up even to the skies". Jeremiah 51:9[/smear:#e61934:1]
However this is not a legalistic command for believers to physically separate from all who practice sin instead, for us right now (today), to do so, would mean we would not be able to evangelize.
[smear:#1b8b3c] " 9 I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people— 10 not at all meaning the sexually immoral of this world, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. 11 But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother......." 1 Corinthians 5:9-11[/smear:#e619b8:0]
Nevertheless the message is, to avoid living in sinful, arrogant, materialistic, self-indulgence etc.
Instead we are to
1[smear:#1948e6]1 Take no part in the unfruitful works of darkness, but instead expose them. Ephesians 5:11[/smear:#d8e619:1]
Tho we are not to become monks hiding away from humanity, nor, are we to never have anything to do with the lost ( how else might we lead any to Jesus)
still ....they are not to be our 'best friends' ( to be best friends with a sinner who swears, takes drugs, is sexually immoral, who hates God etc. is not the constant influence we need as believers)
and during the tribulation, at that time, this will be true, even more so ( especially concerning those who have taken the mark)
being unequally yoked with unbelievers is especially true for Christians to avoid as a marriage partner, but it works for friends as well.
[smear:#e6191f] 14 Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. For what partnership has righteousness with lawlessness? Or what fellowship has light with darkness? 15 What accord has Christ with Belial? Or what portion does a believer share with an unbeliever? 2 Corinthians 6:14,15[/smear:#1924e6:2]
When people's main focus is money and wealth, almost always, it is a trap for self-indulgence, pride, an anti-God attitude, self-gratification, etc. and so we believers, even now need, to be careful
I have often somewhat jokingly thought, its not that we ask for to much Like Jesus warned:
[smear:#19e655] 26 For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world and forfeits his soul? Or what shall a man give in return for his soul? Matthew 16:26[/smear:#e619e1:0]
But in a 'sense' we are asking 'toooooo little" when we want to whole world
What I mean is, we ought to:
[smear:#2ea150]19 “Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal, 20 but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys and where thieves do not break in and steal. 21 For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.
Matthew 6:19-21[/smear:#e6a219:0]
During this whole pandemic, many are worried about the world's economic state, but whatever it turns out to be, it will not be anything like the 'final' economic crash!
done for today
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Post by Cindy on Apr 29, 2020 10:30:12 GMT -5
Thank you Cindy... I have just been pretty tired, so I know these are short and maybe not as logical as could be, but falling asleep while doing them, does not help :( LOL You just need cats like mine. Yesterday (as usual lately) they must have woke me up at least 6 times while I was trying to reply to the posts on FH. They're very gentle about it, so I actually do appreciate it. The jump up on my desk and walk in front of my computer and then gently rub their face against my head. After I finished here I went to try and do a bible study myself as I hadn't yet, but when Chloe once again woke me up I decided to just go sit in the recliner and let myself sleep for a change! I gave up lol. It helped though as I felt a lot better when I woke up again at noon. This Babylon system, both it's economic (a materialistic hypnosis) and it's hellish and Satanic worship of the anti-Christ is full of demonic world wide influence
[smear:#19e63c]For all nations have drunk the wine of the passion of her sexual immorality, and the kings of the earth have committed immorality with her, and the merchants of the earth have grown rich from the power of her luxurious living.” Revelation 18:3[/smear:#8919e6:0]
The nations of the world, are going to be drunk with the passion of having a relationship with Babylon. They all want to get immersed in the luxury, a sensuous way of life, and the sin of Babylon,... the wealth and economic center of the world. Babylon going to seduce the whole world.
In verse 4 we read:
[smear:#367f37]
4 Then I heard another voice from heaven saying,
“Come out of her, my people, lest you take part in her sins, lest you share in her plagues; Revelation 18:4[/smear:#1920e6:0]
It's seems a bit hard to know exactly who these people are, that the angel is talking to, but they are believers, who somehow are still caught up in some way, to some degree with Babylon.
Maybe they are a bit like Lot in the Old Testament Lot at the gates of Sodom, these people also unwisely remained, puttered around, and trifled, in their ungodly surroundings.
It reminds us of the first part of Isaiah 48:20
[smear:#e67e19]"Go out from Babylon, flee from Chaldea,.... Isaiah 48:20 [/smear:#6d0c72:0]
and
[smear:#e61927] “Flee from the midst of Babylon, and go out of the land of the Chaldeans,..." Jeremiah 50:8[/smear:#188c65:0]
and
[smear:#e6193f]“Flee from the midst of Babylon; let every one save his life! Be not cut off in her punishment, for this is the time of the Lord's vengeance, the repayment he is rendering her". Jeremiah 51:6[/smear:#3719e6:1]
and
[smear:#1c19e6] "We would have healed Babylon, but she was not healed. Forsake her, and let us go each to his own country, for her judgment has reached up to heaven and has been lifted up even to the skies". Jeremiah 51:9[/smear:#e61934:1]
However this is not a legalistic command for believers to physically separate from all who practice sin instead, for us right now (today), to do so, would mean we would not be able to evangelize.
[smear:#1b8b3c] " 9 I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people— 10 not at all meaning the sexually immoral of this world, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. 11 But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother......." 1 Corinthians 5:9-11[/smear:#e619b8:0]
Nevertheless the message is, to avoid living in sinful, arrogant, materialistic, self-indulgence etc.
Instead we are to
1[smear:#1948e6]1 Take no part in the unfruitful works of darkness, but instead expose them. Ephesians 5:11[/smear:#d8e619:1]
Tho we are not to become monks hiding away from humanity, nor, are we to never have anything to do with the lost ( how else might we lead any to Jesus)
still ....they are not to be our 'best friends' ( to be best friends with a sinner who swears, takes drugs, is sexually immoral, who hates God etc. is not the constant influence we need as believers)
and during the tribulation, at that time, this will be true, even more so ( especially concerning those who have taken the mark)
being unequally yoked with unbelievers is especially true for Christians to avoid as a marriage partner, but it works for friends as well.
[smear:#e6191f] 14 Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. For what partnership has righteousness with lawlessness? Or what fellowship has light with darkness? 15 What accord has Christ with Belial? Or what portion does a believer share with an unbeliever? 2 Corinthians 6:14,15[/smear:#1924e6:2]
When people's main focus is money and wealth, almost always, it is a trap for self-indulgence, pride, an anti-God attitude, self-gratification, etc. and so we believers, even now need, to be careful
I have often somewhat jokingly thought, its not that we ask for to much Like Jesus warned:
[smear:#19e655] 26 For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world and forfeits his soul? Or what shall a man give in return for his soul? Matthew 16:26[/smear:#e619e1:0]
But in a 'sense' we are asking 'toooooo little" when we want to whole world
What I mean is, we ought to:
[smear:#2ea150]19 “Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal, 20 but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys and where thieves do not break in and steal. 21 For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.
Matthew 6:19-21[/smear:#e6a219:0]
During this whole pandemic, many are worried about the world's economic state, but whatever it turns out to be, it will not be anything like the 'final' economic crash!
done for today
Well done! It's most likely that this chapter is referring to a Babylon that is an actual city, and calling any believers who have been hiding somewhere in that city to get out before God destroys her. I posted most of this in chat but wanted to post it here too:
I'm studying Matthew 24 at the moment and was reminded of something we talked about awhile ago on the old board; only now it's pretty much in our faces. It was about the fact that Jesus said that there would be illnesses and epidemics preceding the tribulation. “There will be great earthquakes, famines and pestilences in various places, and fearful events and great signs from heaven.” (Luke 21:11) Some versions remove it from Matthew as it was probably copied from Luke, but here's the KJV of Matthew: AV | Mt 24:7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places. Here's how the dictionary defines pestilences: pestilence: a contagious or infectious epidemic disease that is virulent and devastating. Check out what Nelson's Bible dictionary says about this word: The words “pestilence” and “plague” seem to refer to contagious diseases of epidemic proportions that God sent occasionally as instruments of judgment upon His people, as well as upon the pagan nations of the ancient world.
Really makes me sit up and pay attention now that we're dealing with the covid 19 pandemic! I hope it does the same for the rest of God's people...actually, I'm sure it will because God will make sure it does! Thank You Lord! The time is coming closer and closer with each passing day. I know we've said that for many years now, but each time we've said it, it's been true, for each day has in fact brought us closer to the rapture. I honestly don't think we have much longer to wait! So we really had better keep our noses in His Word. It's MUCH more important for us to know what His Word says then it is for us to know what the news says! In fact, Jesus told the pharisees that the reason they didn't recognize Him for who He was, was because they didn't know the scriptures! (Matthew 22:29) That's also why they got so much wrong about God wanted from them. God forbid that He should have to say that to any of us! My wish is that people would be more eager to tell me what they learned from the Lord that day then what the news said! The way some people act, you'd think the news is what's going to save them.
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,468
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Post by fearnot on Apr 29, 2020 11:12:53 GMT -5
Now we come to verse 6 and God's judgment on the wicked.
[smear:#07567d]for her sins are heaped high as heaven, and God has remembered her iniquities. Revelation 18:6[/smear:#e66019:0]
Sometimes, it seems like God does not judge evil or wickedness, but it is more like He is waiting, there comes a time when justice will prevail. God has not forgotten, Babylon's sins have piled up sort of like the old tower of Babel.
[smear:#19e64b]7 But the Lord sits enthroned forever; he has established his throne for justice, 8 and he judges the world with righteousness; he judges the peoples with uprightness. Psalm 9:7,8[/smear:#e619d8:0]
[smear:#0e5a62]According to their deeds, so will he repay, wrath to his adversaries, repayment to his enemies;....." Isaiah 59:18 [/smear:#e69519:0] [smear:#e6191f]
9 then the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from trials, and to keep the unrighteous under punishment until the day of judgment, 2 Peter 2:9[/smear:#2f19e6:3]
It seems strange but true that the world is slowly but surely slipping back to Babel....to a one world government, a one world economy, a one world religion, and the morals, sins, wickedness that went along with it.
And so God says concerning Babylon in the 2nd half of the tribulation: [smear:#37e619] Pay her back as she herself has paid back others, and repay her double for her deeds; mix a double portion for her in the cup she mixed. Revelation 18:6[/smear:#681047:0]
It's too late for anything but punishment according to her works:
[smear:#58e619]15 For this is the vengeance of the Lord: take vengeance on her; do to her as she has done. 16 Cut off from Babylon ... Jeremiah 50:15,16[/smear:#e319e6:0]
[smear:#1d3875]Babylon must fall for the slain of Israel, just as for Babylon have fallen the slain of all the earth. Jeremiah 51:49 [/smear:#d0e619:2]
As she had proudly boasted and glorified herself, lived in sin etc, she will in the same degree be punished. she believes herself to be insusceptible and impervious to God’s judgment.
[smear:#191fe6] As she glorified herself and lived in luxury, so give her a like measure of torment and mourning, since in her heart she says, ‘I sit as a queen, I am no widow, and mourning I shall never see. Revelation 18:7[/smear:#e6192c:3]
Done for today
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,468
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Post by fearnot on Apr 29, 2020 11:31:08 GMT -5
You know I am quickly coming around to knowing what you said is true and right.
No matter what political side one is on, the thing is the anger and hurt only continues to grow and pit one side against the other.
In a way, it mostly does not matter. I do hate that babies are being killed so much, and people are hating Israel more and more and the sexual fluidity is confusing children and video games seem more of a drug in a way, than real drugs
and so on and on and on but there is not much I personally can do about much of that...
And in fact, it saps what little strength I have Causes more physical pain and mental and emotional it also adds to anger
and really, its often based on 'this' world a lack of faith that God is in control
So being in His Word, and in prayer not only is better for 'me' but for others and it gives God the glory
I looked at just the headlines today and whereas before I might click on half a dozen or more
I think I only clicked on 2 and read a sentence or two before I was bored or just thought is this helpful in any way?
And I was done So I am getting there quicker than I thought
I suppose I might continue to briefly look but less and less and less ( so as not to be legalistic about never ever looking, and I suppose something might be necessary to know now and again) but really
I would rather be comforted knowing what God says than what man says.
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Post by Cindy on Apr 30, 2020 8:52:25 GMT -5
Now we come to verse 6 and God's judgment on the wicked.
[smear:#07567d]for her sins are heaped high as heaven, and God has remembered her iniquities. Revelation 18:6[/smear:#e66019:0]
Sometimes, it seems like God does not judge evil or wickedness, but it is more like He is waiting, there comes a time when justice will prevail. God has not forgotten, Babylon's sins have piled up sort of like the old tower of Babel.
[smear:#19e64b]7 But the Lord sits enthroned forever; he has established his throne for justice, 8 and he judges the world with righteousness; he judges the peoples with uprightness. Psalm 9:7,8[/smear:#e619d8:0]
[smear:#0e5a62]According to their deeds, so will he repay, wrath to his adversaries, repayment to his enemies;....." Isaiah 59:18 [/smear:#e69519:0] [smear:#e6191f]
9 then the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from trials, and to keep the unrighteous under punishment until the day of judgment, 2 Peter 2:9[/smear:#2f19e6:3]
It seems strange but true that the world is slowly but surely slipping back to Babel....to a one world government, a one world economy, a one world religion, and the morals, sins, wickedness that went along with it.
And so God says concerning Babylon in the 2nd half of the tribulation: [smear:#37e619] Pay her back as she herself has paid back others, and repay her double for her deeds; mix a double portion for her in the cup she mixed. Revelation 18:6[/smear:#681047:0]
It's too late for anything but punishment according to her works:
[smear:#58e619]15 For this is the vengeance of the Lord: take vengeance on her; do to her as she has done. 16 Cut off from Babylon ... Jeremiah 50:15,16[/smear:#e319e6:0]
[smear:#1d3875]Babylon must fall for the slain of Israel, just as for Babylon have fallen the slain of all the earth. Jeremiah 51:49 [/smear:#d0e619:2]
As she had proudly boasted and glorified herself, lived in sin etc, she will in the same degree be punished. she believes herself to be insusceptible and impervious to God’s judgment.
[smear:#191fe6] As she glorified herself and lived in luxury, so give her a like measure of torment and mourning, since in her heart she says, ‘I sit as a queen, I am no widow, and mourning I shall never see. Revelation 18:7[/smear:#e6192c:3]
Done for today
Good job! This reminds us of the OT law of retaliation, “But if there is serious injury, you are to take life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot,” (Exodus 21:23–24), which a great many people misunderstand. If you read the law in context you find that it was not a giving people the right to get even with the person who harmed them or a loved one. Instead, God gave this law so that when the judges rendered their verdict, that their verdict would not be worse then the crime called for. In other words, God wanted their punishment to fit the crime and not go beyond that. So if a crime only called for someone to have their hand slapped, God wanted to make sure they didn't do more then that. When Jesus came though, He taught us even more about this: ““You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’ But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also.” (Matthew 5:38–39) People thought He was changing the law, but He really wasn't as the law was never about personal retaliation. It was about the judge in court cases making the punishment fit the crime. But we see here that Jesus wants us to go the extra mile to live in peace with others, so we can be a blessing to them.
Both the Old and New Testament tell people not to seek revenge because God will do that. That's His job. Here we see one reason why we aren't to seek revenge. It's because when God pays back people who have rejected His Son and have continued to sin, He will make them pay double for their sins. He tells us that each person, because we're all sinners, has been storing up wrath daily because of their sins. Of course for those who are saved that is no longer true as our sins have been paid for. Jesus took God's wrath for us, and now we can store up treasure in heaven instead. But for all the unsaved, they have been storing up wrath. This is not because God wants to punish them horribly, but instead it's because God wants them to have as many chances as possible to turn from their sins and accept the gift of His Son. God also knows much more then we ever could that this life is the only time that unbelievers have any chance of any kind of happiness or love, or anything good. Because if they don't accept Christ, they will spend eternity in Hell, paying for their decision. To us, it often looks like the wicked get away with the evil they do. It looks that way right now with the way the homosexuals and transgenders are getting away with their plans. But they really aren't. For those who have eyes to see and ears to hear, (and only the saved who are in God's Word daily can see and hear those things) they know that the day is coming when God will repay them for what they've done.
You know I am quickly coming around to knowing what you said is true and right.
No matter what political side one is on, the thing is the anger and hurt only continues to grow and pit one side against the other.
In a way, it mostly does not matter. I do hate that babies are being killed so much, and people are hating Israel more and more and the sexual fluidity is confusing children and video games seem more of a drug in a way, than real drugs
and so on and on and on but there is not much I personally can do about much of that...
And in fact, it saps what little strength I have Causes more physical pain and mental and emotional it also adds to anger
and really, its often based on 'this' world a lack of faith that God is in control
So being in His Word, and in prayer not only is better for 'me' but for others and it gives God the glory
I looked at just the headlines today and whereas before I might click on half a dozen or more
I think I only clicked on 2 and read a sentence or two before I was bored or just thought is this helpful in any way?
And I was done So I am getting there quicker than I thought
I suppose I might continue to briefly look but less and less and less ( so as not to be legalistic about never ever looking, and I suppose something might be necessary to know now and again) but really
I would rather be comforted knowing what God says than what man says.
So true! Yes, those things both make me angry and so very sad at the same time. All sin does that. But I found that there's a sinister trick that Satan uses against us when we get into the news a lot and see these sins. We then have a tendency to see the sins of other people more then we see our own sins. It becomes easier for us to focus on the sins of others too, and show our anger so others can see how holy we are. Satan loves it when he can get us to take our focus off of ourselves and put it on other people. To counter that Jesus tells us: ““Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.” (Matthew 7:3–5) Of course that's concerning other Christians.
But I've noticed that we tend to go from judging the unsaved and their sins, to judging our brothers and sisters and their sins. We'll look at anyone other then ourselves it seems. At least that's what happened to me. This scripture really helped me stop doing that with other Christians: “The man who eats everything must not look down on him who does not, and the man who does not eat everything must not condemn the man who does, for God has accepted him. Who are you to judge someone else’s servant? To his own master he stands or falls. And he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.” (Romans 14:3–4) As far as the unsaved go, I simply ask myself why I expect the unsaved to act like someone who's saved? They can't do that!
So who is really at fault for all this sin (besides the ones who are actual homosexuals or transgenders etc)? It's Christians who have not stood up for the Truth in their Church; who have allowed false teachers to fool their brothers and sisters. it's especially pastors who have allowed this to happen. Then from allowing it in our churches and Sunday Schools, it was allowed in our public schools, and was printed in magazines and newspapers and books. But Christians continued to allow it; they even brought it into their homes! They did that on their TV, radios, and in the books they read. Then it finally was allowed into our politics and laws were passed that we didn't like, but we still did nothing, so more have been passed and things have become much worse. When I remember that, it humbles me because I know that I'm one of the people who allowed it to happen. Perhaps not knowingly all the time, but still, I too was at fault. We all were. That helped me to stop looking at the sins of others and look at my own instead. Now every time I'm tempted to look at someone else's sins, I just remind myself that I need to pay attention to my own.
But back to your subject....(sorry I got sidetracked like that!) I'm glad you're finding it easier to let it go.
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,468
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Post by fearnot on Apr 30, 2020 9:41:20 GMT -5
Now as to the details of Babylon's destruction:
[smear:#9637ea]Therefore in one day her plagues will overtake her: death, mourning and famine. She will be consumed by fire, for mighty is the Lord God who judges her. Revelation 18:8 [/smear:#68ac19:0]
In one day, seems to suggest, that this will be brief or instant destruction.
Which reminds us of this verse speaking of Babylon: [smear:#e6d019] These two things shall come to you in a moment, in one day; the loss of children and widowhood shall come upon you in full measure, in spite of your many sorceries and the great power of your enchantments. Isaiah 47:9[/smear:#0f8665:0]
That she will be consumed by fire brings to our recollection other Biblical cities destroyed with fire like Sodom and Gomorrah and verses like:
[smear:#258244]19 And Babylon, the glory of kingdoms, the splendor and pomp of the Chaldeans, will be like Sodom and Gomorrah when God overthrew them. 20 It will never be inhabited or lived in for all generations; Isaiah 13:19,20[/smear:#e619d8:0]
and
[smear:#3419e6]39 “Therefore wild beasts shall dwell with hyenas in Babylon, and ostriches shall dwell in her. She shall never again have people, nor be inhabited for all generations. 40 As when God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah and their neighboring cities, declares the Lord, so no man shall dwell there, and no son of man shall sojourn in her. Jeremiah 50:39,40 [/smear:#e6e319:1]
mighty is the Lord God who judges her. behooves us to remember God will accomplish what He intends to do . So now we come to the laments over her destruction from 3 different perspectives, the first is the kings ( rulers, world leaders etc.)
[smear:#19e62c]9 And the kings of the earth, who committed sexual immorality and lived in luxury with her, will weep and wail over her when they see the smoke of her burning. Revelation 18:9[/smear:#9a19e6:0]
I have noticed that people in power ( and those super wealthy also), almost always, have a hard time believing in God. They often seem to believe, that they are self made men, and their it's their own genius ( not God), that has garnered for them, power, money, luxury etc.
So when the destruction comes they see everything they worked for go up in flames, they weep, cry, and lament. The destruction is total and permanent ... they do not weep over their sins, but because they lost power.
[smear:#19e634]They will stand far off, in fear of her torment, and say,
“Alas! Alas! You great city, you mighty city, Babylon! For in a single hour your judgment has come.” Revelation 18:10[/smear:#e6195d:1]
That Babylon will have been so suddenly demolished and brought down to nothing... we can see a small demonstration of how quickly things can change, in the situation we all find ourselves ( worldwide) due to a virus.
And not only do the world leaders mourn, but the merchants, the business men, and they too do not bewail because of their sins, but because they have lost so much money.
[smear:#57840b]11 And the merchants of the earth weep and mourn for her, since no one buys their cargo anymore, Revelation 18:11 [/smear:#046879:0]
I think I mentioned before that material goods are not inherently evil, nevertheless an abundance of material wealth often contributes to covetousness, lack of compassion, greed, and idolatry. For most people ,when turn their attention and make it their priority, to making more and more money, they neglect the more important things of God. They usually end up loving even worshiping money, and it becomes their idol and their god. They put their trust in money and not in God. They have no interest in self-sacrifice. Charity is not big on their to do list, unless, it can somehow end up gaining them even more money.
Tomorrow I will look at the list of goods. Done for today
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Post by Cindy on May 1, 2020 9:04:49 GMT -5
Now as to the details of Babylon's destruction:
[smear:#9637ea]Therefore in one day her plagues will overtake her: death, mourning and famine. She will be consumed by fire, for mighty is the Lord God who judges her. Revelation 18:8 [/smear:#68ac19:0]
In one day, seems to suggest, that this will be brief or instant destruction.
Which reminds us of this verse speaking of Babylon: [smear:#e6d019] These two things shall come to you in a moment, in one day; the loss of children and widowhood shall come upon you in full measure, in spite of your many sorceries and the great power of your enchantments. Isaiah 47:9[/smear:#0f8665:0]
That she will be consumed by fire brings to our recollection other Biblical cities destroyed with fire like Sodom and Gomorrah and verses like:
[smear:#258244]19 And Babylon, the glory of kingdoms, the splendor and pomp of the Chaldeans, will be like Sodom and Gomorrah when God overthrew them. 20 It will never be inhabited or lived in for all generations; Isaiah 13:19,20[/smear:#e619d8:0]
and
[smear:#3419e6]39 “Therefore wild beasts shall dwell with hyenas in Babylon, and ostriches shall dwell in her. She shall never again have people, nor be inhabited for all generations. 40 As when God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah and their neighboring cities, declares the Lord, so no man shall dwell there, and no son of man shall sojourn in her. Jeremiah 50:39,40 [/smear:#e6e319:1]
mighty is the Lord God who judges her. behooves us to remember God will accomplish what He intends to do . So now we come to the laments over her destruction from 3 different perspectives, the first is the kings ( rulers, world leaders etc.)
[smear:#19e62c]9 And the kings of the earth, who committed sexual immorality and lived in luxury with her, will weep and wail over her when they see the smoke of her burning. Revelation 18:9[/smear:#9a19e6:0]
I have noticed that people in power ( and those super wealthy also), almost always, have a hard time believing in God. They often seem to believe, that they are self made men, and their it's their own genius ( not God), that has garnered for them, power, money, luxury etc.
So when the destruction comes they see everything they worked for go up in flames, they weep, cry, and lament. The destruction is total and permanent ... they do not weep over their sins, but because they lost power.
[smear:#19e634]They will stand far off, in fear of her torment, and say,
“Alas! Alas! You great city, you mighty city, Babylon! For in a single hour your judgment has come.” Revelation 18:10[/smear:#e6195d:1]
That Babylon will have been so suddenly demolished and brought down to nothing... we can see a small demonstration of how quickly things can change, in the situation we all find ourselves ( worldwide) due to a virus.
And not only do the world leaders mourn, but the merchants, the business men, and they too do not bewail because of their sins, but because they have lost so much money.
[smear:#57840b]11 And the merchants of the earth weep and mourn for her, since no one buys their cargo anymore, Revelation 18:11 [/smear:#046879:0]
I think I mentioned before that material goods are not inherently evil, nevertheless an abundance of material wealth often contributes to covetousness, lack of compassion, greed, and idolatry. For most people ,when turn their attention and make it their priority, to making more and more money, they neglect the more important things of God. They usually end up loving even worshiping money, and it becomes their idol and their god. They put their trust in money and not in God. They have no interest in self-sacrifice. Charity is not big on their to do list, unless, it can somehow end up gaining them even more money.
Tomorrow I will look at the list of goods. Done for today
Well done! It's helpful to know that the last city of Babylon actually did literally fall and it's recorded in Daniel. So there is no doubt that this will be fulfilled quite literally too. We can be sure that the new Babylon will fall in one day, which of course will seem impossible to the Antichrist and all his people. They won't believe it until it happens.
As for the list of goods, it's going to show us something very interesting....
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,468
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Post by fearnot on May 1, 2020 11:49:46 GMT -5
We are going shopping soon, so I don't know how much I will be able to get thru today.....so depending the 'goods' might be a 2 day study....I just dont know. :)
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,468
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Post by fearnot on May 1, 2020 11:57:40 GMT -5
Now we get a list of 28 items of goods, which gives us an idea of the world economy at that time.
[smear:#e64019]12 cargo of gold, silver, jewels, pearls, fine linen, purple cloth, silk, scarlet cloth, all kinds of scented wood, all kinds of articles of ivory, all kinds of articles of costly wood, bronze, iron and marble, 13 cinnamon, spice, incense, myrrh, frankincense, wine, oil, fine flour, wheat, cattle and sheep, horses and chariots, and slaves, that is, human souls" Revelation 18:12,13 [/smear:#45e619:0]
The first 4 are precious assets:
"gold, silver, jewels, pearls"
then listed are cloths, for showy opulent super expensive attire:
"fine linen, purple cloth, silk, scarlet cloth",
The 'purple' cloth reminds us of Lydia
[smear:#0d9004]".......a woman named Lydia, from the city of Thyatira, a seller of purple goods, who was a worshiper of God. Acts 16:14[/smear:#c64106:0] it was so expensive, that in the Roman time, it was banned by Tiberius because it was so excessively over-priced. The Caesars were noted for their 'purple' robes. ( I am rather fond of the color purple too....as an artist :)
Next in the list of goods were:
materials for exorbitant, extremely expensive, pieces of outstanding exquisite furniture:
"all kinds of scented wood, all kinds of articles of ivory, all kinds of articles of costly wood, bronze, iron and marble",
Marble, was imported from Africa, Egypt, and Greece, and was widely used in Roman buildings, but is still considered upscale and classy to this day.
John was seemingly drawing from a list of things in his day, not necessarily for a future time, and yet, many of these things are indeed consider of very high value today ( some antiques are sold for exorbitant prices today).
Leonard is ready to go so done for today will pick up tomorrow but feel free to add anything to the whole list.
Done for today
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,468
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Post by fearnot on May 2, 2020 11:45:26 GMT -5
I left off yesterday with marble, so onto the next:
[smear:#e61981]13 cinnamon, spice, incense, myrrh, frankincense, wine, oil, fine flour, wheat, cattle and sheep, horses and chariots, and slaves, that is, human souls Revelation 18:13[/smear:#19e689:0]
The first in this grouping are various precious spices, nice smelling things.
The preciousness of frankincense reminds us of: [smear:#19e63c] 11 And going into the house, they saw the child with Mary his mother, and they fell down and worshiped him. Then, opening their treasures, they offered him gifts, gold and frankincense and myrrh. Matthew 2:11[/smear:#e66019:0]
and another verse about myrrh and frankincense:
[smear:#6f8426]What is that coming up from the wilderness like columns of smoke, perfumed with myrrh and frankincense, with all the fragrant powders of a merchant? Song of Solomon 3:6[/smear:#c819e6:0]
the next 3 are:
foods and alcohol (maybe they drank wine because the water was all gone or polluted...so that would or will be very precious at that time, even more so than today)?
after that:
animals for agricultural and domestic uses and transportation conveyances
cattle and sheep, horses and chariots
and lastly a surprising one, since slavery is totally abhorrent today, but seems to have made a comeback during the tribulation:
and slaves, that is, human souls
Strangely, it seems like many things will be going in a very backward way....back to the original Babel ideas etc.
This also has some similarity to the destruction of Tyre in Ezekiel 26:
1[smear:#43b488]2 They will plunder your riches and loot your merchandise. They will break down your walls and destroy your pleasant houses. Your stones and timber and soil they will cast into the midst of the waters....You shall never be rebuilt, for I am the Lord; I have spoken, declares the Lord God.....17 And they will raise a lamentation over you and say to you, ‘How you have perished",[/smear:#db19e6:0]
done for today
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,468
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Post by fearnot on May 3, 2020 11:07:04 GMT -5
This is not the believer's world ...
[smear:#1979e6]14 For here we have no lasting city, but we seek the city that is to come. Hebrews 13: 14[/smear:#e6196d:0]
nor the unbeliever's either, but by ignoring that truth, will mean they will suffer all the more, at the loss of everything, they lusted after
[smear:#7a0d96] “The fruit for which your soul longed has gone from you, and all your delicacies and your splendors are lost to you, never to be found again!” Revelation 18:14[/smear:#69b717:0]
God has clearly said in his word, the Bible:
[smear:#951e7b]15 Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16 For all that is in the world—the desires of the flesh and the desires of the eyes and pride of life—is not from the Father but is from the world. 17 And the world is passing away along with its desires, but whoever does the will of God abides forever. I John 2:15-17[/smear:#367693:0]
So the loss is irreversible. and permanent, and they cry, not because they want to go to Heaven, but because of their lust for all these things, that are forever gone.
[smear:#13b460]15 The merchants of these wares, who gained wealth from her, will stand far off, in fear of her torment, weeping and mourning aloud, Revelation 18:15[/smear:#c52d1e:0]
This weeping is actually the beginning of their weeping forever for all eternity in Hell. Their weeping is not heart felt pity or compassion for others, the countless lives lost,
They have come to the realization: [smear:#e619a1] Such to you are those with whom you have labored, who have done business with you from your youth; they wander about, each in his own direction; there is no one to save you. Isaiah 47:15[/smear:#e67919:0] [smear:#e61936] “Alas, alas, for the great city that was clothed in fine linen, in purple and scarlet, adorned with gold, with jewels, and with pearls! 17 For in a single hour all this wealth has been laid waste.” Revelation 18:16,17[/smear:#157d5f:0]
The fine linen has to do with the church, and purple and scarlet are the colors of God ( but the copy cat harlot wore the same colors).
[smear:#0ec45e]4 The woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet, and adorned with gold and jewels and pearls, holding in her hand a golden cup full of abominations and the impurities of her sexual immorality Revelation 17:4[/smear:#e68519:0]
In one hour ,indicates the swiftness of the judgment and destruction.
A third group of those lamenting were those who transported all the goods:
[smear:#58aa17]And all shipmasters and seafaring men, sailors and all whose trade is on the sea, stood far off and cried out as they saw the smoke of her burning,
“What city was like the great city?” Revelation 18:17.18[/smear:#e61930:0]
If Babylon could not survive, no city could!!
Done for today
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Post by Cindy on May 4, 2020 10:17:31 GMT -5
Now we get a list of 28 items of goods, which gives us an idea of the world economy at that time.
[smear:#e64019]12 cargo of gold, silver, jewels, pearls, fine linen, purple cloth, silk, scarlet cloth, all kinds of scented wood, all kinds of articles of ivory, all kinds of articles of costly wood, bronze, iron and marble, 13 cinnamon, spice, incense, myrrh, frankincense, wine, oil, fine flour, wheat, cattle and sheep, horses and chariots, and slaves, that is, human souls" Revelation 18:12,13 [/smear:#45e619:0]
The first 4 are precious assets:
"gold, silver, jewels, pearls"
then listed are cloths, for showy opulent super expensive attire:
"fine linen, purple cloth, silk, scarlet cloth",
The 'purple' cloth reminds us of Lydia
[smear:#0d9004]".......a woman named Lydia, from the city of Thyatira, a seller of purple goods, who was a worshiper of God. Acts 16:14[/smear:#c64106:0] it was so expensive, that in the Roman time, it was banned by Tiberius because it was so excessively over-priced. The Caesars were noted for their 'purple' robes. ( I am rather fond of the color purple too....as an artist :)
Next in the list of goods were:
materials for exorbitant, extremely expensive, pieces of outstanding exquisite furniture:
"all kinds of scented wood, all kinds of articles of ivory, all kinds of articles of costly wood, bronze, iron and marble",
Marble, was imported from Africa, Egypt, and Greece, and was widely used in Roman buildings, but is still considered upscale and classy to this day.
John was seemingly drawing from a list of things in his day, not necessarily for a future time, and yet, many of these things are indeed consider of very high value today ( some antiques are sold for exorbitant prices today).
Leonard is ready to go so done for today will pick up tomorrow but feel free to add anything to the whole list.
Done for today
Good! But I don't believe John was drawing this list from things he knew in his time. Instead, the Bible says he was told this by an angel, and is simply reporting what he has been told. Therefore these are the luxury items provided to the world by Babylon.
I left off yesterday with marble, so onto the next:
[smear:#e61981]13 cinnamon, spice, incense, myrrh, frankincense, wine, oil, fine flour, wheat, cattle and sheep, horses and chariots, and slaves, that is, human souls Revelation 18:13[/smear:#19e689:0]
The first in this grouping are various precious spices, nice smelling things.
The preciousness of frankincense reminds us of: [smear:#19e63c] 11 And going into the house, they saw the child with Mary his mother, and they fell down and worshiped him. Then, opening their treasures, they offered him gifts, gold and frankincense and myrrh. Matthew 2:11[/smear:#e66019:0]
and another verse about myrrh and frankincense:
[smear:#6f8426]What is that coming up from the wilderness like columns of smoke, perfumed with myrrh and frankincense, with all the fragrant powders of a merchant? Song of Solomon 3:6[/smear:#c819e6:0]
the next 3 are:
foods and alcohol (maybe they drank wine because the water was all gone or polluted...so that would or will be very precious at that time, even more so than today)?
after that:
animals for agricultural and domestic uses and transportation conveyances
cattle and sheep, horses and chariots
and lastly a surprising one, since slavery is totally abhorrent today, but seems to have made a comeback during the tribulation:
and slaves, that is, human souls
Strangely, it seems like many things will be going in a very backward way....back to the original Babel ideas etc.
This also has some similarity to the destruction of Tyre in Ezekiel 26:
1[smear:#43b488]2 They will plunder your riches and loot your merchandise. They will break down your walls and destroy your pleasant houses. Your stones and timber and soil they will cast into the midst of the waters....You shall never be rebuilt, for I am the Lord; I have spoken, declares the Lord God.....17 And they will raise a lamentation over you and say to you, ‘How you have perished",[/smear:#db19e6:0]
done for today
Well done! In many places in the middle east, including Israel, the water isn't good, so they add a little wine to the water to kill the germs so they can drink it without getting sick. But the wine they're speaking of in these verses isn't the kind used for such a simple basic purpose. These are mainly luxury items, so this must be speaking of a very fine wine.
As far as the slaves go, it's already made a comeback in our day and time. There are countries in the middle east where slavery is practiced.
Contemporary slavery, also known as modern slavery or neo-slavery, refers to institutional slavery that continues to occur in present-day society. Estimates of the number of slaves today range from around 21 million to 46 million, depending on the method used to form the estimate and the definition of slavery being used.
Modern slavery is a multibillion-dollar industry with just the forced labor aspect generating US $150 billion each year. The Global Slavery Index (2018) estimated that roughly 40.3 million individuals are currently caught in modern slavery, with 71% of those being female, and 1 in 4 being children. India is first with 8 million, then China (3.6 million), Russia (794,000), Brazil (369,000), Germany (167,000), Italy (145,000), United Kingdom (136,000), France (129,000), Japan (37,000), Canada (17,000) and Australia (15,000).
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_the_21st_century
The one I don't see listed here is South Korea and most of their citizens are actually slaves, and live in horrid concentration camps. So although there are people fighting against slavery today, we can sadly know that they aren't going to win. Again we see that the only way for people to be free in any sense of the word, is through Jesus Christ. Not until He physically reigns on this earth will there be true peace and freedom.
This is not the believer's world ...
[smear:#1979e6]14 For here we have no lasting city, but we seek the city that is to come. Hebrews 13: 14[/smear:#e6196d:0]
nor the unbeliever's either, but by ignoring that truth, will mean they will suffer all the more, at the loss of everything, they lusted after
[smear:#7a0d96] “The fruit for which your soul longed has gone from you, and all your delicacies and your splendors are lost to you, never to be found again!” Revelation 18:14[/smear:#69b717:0]
God has clearly said in his word, the Bible:
[smear:#951e7b]15 Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16 For all that is in the world—the desires of the flesh and the desires of the eyes and pride of life—is not from the Father but is from the world. 17 And the world is passing away along with its desires, but whoever does the will of God abides forever. I John 2:15-17[/smear:#367693:0]
So the loss is irreversible. and permanent, and they cry, not because they want to go to Heaven, but because of their lust for all these things, that are forever gone.
[smear:#13b460]15 The merchants of these wares, who gained wealth from her, will stand far off, in fear of her torment, weeping and mourning aloud, Revelation 18:15[/smear:#c52d1e:0]
This weeping is actually the beginning of their weeping forever for all eternity in Hell. Their weeping is not heart felt pity or compassion for others, the countless lives lost,
They have come to the realization: [smear:#e619a1] Such to you are those with whom you have labored, who have done business with you from your youth; they wander about, each in his own direction; there is no one to save you. Isaiah 47:15[/smear:#e67919:0] [smear:#e61936] “Alas, alas, for the great city that was clothed in fine linen, in purple and scarlet, adorned with gold, with jewels, and with pearls! 17 For in a single hour all this wealth has been laid waste.” Revelation 18:16,17[/smear:#157d5f:0]
The fine linen has to do with the church, and purple and scarlet are the colors of God ( but the copy cat harlot wore the same colors).
[smear:#0ec45e]4 The woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet, and adorned with gold and jewels and pearls, holding in her hand a golden cup full of abominations and the impurities of her sexual immorality Revelation 17:4[/smear:#e68519:0]
In one hour ,indicates the swiftness of the judgment and destruction.
A third group of those lamenting were those who transported all the goods:
[smear:#58aa17]And all shipmasters and seafaring men, sailors and all whose trade is on the sea, stood far off and cried out as they saw the smoke of her burning,
“What city was like the great city?” Revelation 18:17.18[/smear:#e61930:0]
If Babylon could not survive, no city could!!
Done for today
Very well done!!!! I realized a long time ago that we were heading in the same direction that Rome took, and we continue on that same path today. It seems like everything that happens, makes us more like Rome as we tend to respond to the things that happen in the same way she did before her fall. So there's no mistaking the fact that the US is falling. It's no longer the great nation it once was and it never will be again. At least not if the Bible is true. I know some people who worship Trump think he's going to make everything better, but the Bible says otherwise.
Oh, I think I should clarify my position on Trump as some people seem to be confused and not sure where I stand. (this way I can always come back here and copy it if I need to say it again lol) I like a lot of things that Trump does and says, but I also dislike some of the things he says or does. I don't wear "rose colored glasses", but see things as they are. I will never worship another human being, believing that they're going to save me or my country. Only God can do that.
This is the very issue that many people today have a problem with. I've been shocked by it because we all universally said we'd never worship a president like the dems worshiped Obama; but then what happened? Trump came along again and won the election and suddenly it was like he was God - he could do no wrong; and his people would get all irate if anyone so much as disagreed with anything he said or did, or even just his tone of voice or whatever! I've been verbally abused simply because I don't agree with 100% of the things Trump says or does, and it's the same for anyone else that might disagree with something he's said. They get attacked. It's just like it was with Obama only worse. It's worse then it ever was in the apologetics forum over any of the hot topics there. And you could count on being attacked in that forum no matter what you believed. The difference is that in that forum we were discussing some very important matters of doctrine; matters that made a difference in where you would spend eternity; so it wasn't surprising that people would fly off the handle and attack each other. But to attack someone simply because they don't agree with the way Trump spoke about something, like maybe he called someone a name or used derogatory language or something, that's just crazy, but I've seen it happen. Or to call someone names because they don't agree with how Trump handled something or how he dealt with another person, but I've seen that happen too. It's even happened right here on the board in the chat forum! This too though is another sign of the times. It proves we're in the last days.
No matter how small the thing you disagree with about Trump, you can count on being attacked and threatened. And that's not the Holy Spirit talking when that happens. Any Christian who does that, needs to reexamine their faith because they may not be saved at all. If they are, then they are grieving the Holy Spirit.
You've done really well on all of this Barbara! I've enjoyed reading what you write!
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,468
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Post by fearnot on May 4, 2020 10:56:39 GMT -5
The next verses show what happens when you think the anti-Christ's kingdom is stronger than God, and then you discover it is not.
But also the contrast of those who trust and believe in Satan's kingdom, verses those who trust and believe in God.
[smear:#b63b0c]19 They will throw dust on their heads, and with weeping and mourning cry out:
“‘Woe! Woe to you, great city, where all who had ships on the sea became rich through her wealth! In one hour she has been brought to ruin!’
20 “Rejoice over her, you heavens! Rejoice, you people of God! Rejoice, apostles and prophets! For God has judged her with the judgment she imposed on you.” Revelation 18:19,20 [/smear:#8d0380:0]
It speaks of ships ( and even today, many goods are shipped by giant cargo boats, but I am thinking all manner of transporting goods have ended, and even if they have computers etc. up and running, they too, have stopped, because God has judged in and in such a short time....an hour!!
and yet, they do not repent.
But in verse 20, we see the contrast.... they do not rejoice over those going to Hell ( that is a tragedy) Nor does God [smear:#3b5c65] "32 For I have no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Lord God; Ezekiel 18:32[/smear:#8c3f74:0]
It sort of reminds us of this verse: [smear:#e6192a] Then the heavens and the earth, and all that is in them, shall sing for joy over Babylon, for the destroyers shall come against them... Jeremiah 51:48[/smear:#0a378b:0]
but they do rejoice that God's justice has won out. They also rejoice over the end of sin and the dishonoring of God. We get kind of a visual in the next verse, where Babylon will disappear ,sort of like going into a black hole never to be seen anymore.
[smear:#0c6739]21 Then a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone and threw it into the sea, saying,
“So will Babylon the great city be thrown down with violence, and will be found no more; Revelation 18:21[/smear:#e619b7:0]
Which is reminiscent of these verses:
[smear:#6f2e0f]61 And Jeremiah said to Seraiah: “When you come to Babylon, see that you read all these words, 62 and say, ‘O Lord, you have said concerning this place that you will cut it off, so that nothing shall dwell in it, neither man nor beast, and it shall be desolate forever.’ 63 When you finish reading this book, tie a stone to it and cast it into the midst of the Euphrates, 64 and say, ‘Thus shall Babylon sink, to rise no more, because of the disaster that I am bringing upon her, and they shall become exhausted.’” Jeremiah 51:61-64 [/smear:#8519e6:0]
That a strong angel appeared lets us know that an important action will happen...the fulfilling of Jeremiah's prediction.
Done for today
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,468
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Post by fearnot on May 4, 2020 11:16:01 GMT -5
Thank you for all the added information. I did know we have a LOT of slavery today...but did not have the stats you had! Wow, and I don't know if that includes prostitution ( of adults and children?).
I was going to say something about it, but I just ran out of energy so I am soooooo glad you did give all that info.
And also thank you for your clear stance on Trump. I agree, there is a real sense of 'worship' of him, so that people cannot even express anything they disagree with.
On the other side, there are those who cannot find anything good policy wise he did. And even tho he tried to 'make America Great again'.....
that clearly is not going to happen...there are other things at work it seems
and yes, we do seem like Rome
I like what you said:
"I will never worship another human being, believing that they're going to save me or my country. Only God can do that. "
But it's not just President Trump people 'worship' or hate
there seems to be a lot of countries with such leaders that people worship... Which goes to show...
people do need God.
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Post by Cindy on May 5, 2020 9:52:02 GMT -5
The next verses show what happens when you think the anti-Christ's kingdom is stronger than God, and then you discover it is not.
But also the contrast of those who trust and believe in Satan's kingdom, verses those who trust and believe in God.
[smear:#b63b0c]19 They will throw dust on their heads, and with weeping and mourning cry out:
“‘Woe! Woe to you, great city, where all who had ships on the sea became rich through her wealth! In one hour she has been brought to ruin!’
20 “Rejoice over her, you heavens! Rejoice, you people of God! Rejoice, apostles and prophets! For God has judged her with the judgment she imposed on you.” Revelation 18:19,20 [/smear:#8d0380:0]
It speaks of ships ( and even today, many goods are shipped by giant cargo boats, but I am thinking all manner of transporting goods have ended, and even if they have computers etc. up and running, they too, have stopped, because God has judged in and in such a short time....an hour!!
and yet, they do not repent.
But in verse 20, we see the contrast.... they do not rejoice over those going to Hell ( that is a tragedy) Nor does God [smear:#3b5c65] "32 For I have no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Lord God; Ezekiel 18:32[/smear:#8c3f74:0]
It sort of reminds us of this verse: [smear:#e6192a] Then the heavens and the earth, and all that is in them, shall sing for joy over Babylon, for the destroyers shall come against them... Jeremiah 51:48[/smear:#0a378b:0]
but they do rejoice that God's justice has won out. They also rejoice over the end of sin and the dishonoring of God. We get kind of a visual in the next verse, where Babylon will disappear ,sort of like going into a black hole never to be seen anymore.
[smear:#0c6739]21 Then a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone and threw it into the sea, saying,
“So will Babylon the great city be thrown down with violence, and will be found no more; Revelation 18:21[/smear:#e619b7:0]
Which is reminiscent of these verses:
[smear:#6f2e0f]61 And Jeremiah said to Seraiah: “When you come to Babylon, see that you read all these words, 62 and say, ‘O Lord, you have said concerning this place that you will cut it off, so that nothing shall dwell in it, neither man nor beast, and it shall be desolate forever.’ 63 When you finish reading this book, tie a stone to it and cast it into the midst of the Euphrates, 64 and say, ‘Thus shall Babylon sink, to rise no more, because of the disaster that I am bringing upon her, and they shall become exhausted.’” Jeremiah 51:61-64 [/smear:#8519e6:0]
That a strong angel appeared lets us know that an important action will happen...the fulfilling of Jeremiah's prediction.
Done for today
Good job! Thank you for all the added information. I did know we have a LOT of slavery today...but did not have the stats you had! Wow, and I don't know if that includes prostitution ( of adults and children?).
I was going to say something about it, but I just ran out of energy so I am soooooo glad you did give all that info.
And also thank you for your clear stance on Trump. I agree, there is a real sense of 'worship' of him, so that people cannot even express anything they disagree with.
On the other side, there are those who cannot find anything good policy wise he did. And even tho he tried to 'make America Great again'.....
that clearly is not going to happen...there are other things at work it seems
and yes, we do seem like Rome
I like what you said:
"I will never worship another human being, believing that they're going to save me or my country. Only God can do that. "
But it's not just President Trump people 'worship' or hate
there seems to be a lot of countries with such leaders that people worship... Which goes to show...
people do need God.
I don't know about what other countries do, other then that I've never seen another country react toward it's leaders the way we have toward Obama and Trump. However, it certainly wouldn't surprise me if that was true, since it's most surely a sign of the times we're living in.
As far as people who can't find anything good about him, that was also true of Obama and with every president that's ever lived. The difference is that until recently people didn't get viciously attacked for saying something negative about something a president did or said. While people might have fought about it, they weren't fighting about the president, they were fighting over whether or not the thing he did was good or bad. It's a lot like the difference of fighting over whether or not healing someone on Sunday is good or bad as opposed to fighting over whether or not Jesus is good or bad. It's not a big deal to argue about whether or not something a person said or did is good or bad, but when the arguments become about the person themselves, then it becomes at least very dangerous and very possibly idolatry and spiritual adultery.
It reminds me of what I must have said a million times in our old apologetics forum: "attack the topic, not the person". And I have to admit that I was guilty of this sin too during the first term Obama was president. I had to ask the Lord's forgiveness for it and then tried hard not to let it happen again.
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,468
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Post by fearnot on May 5, 2020 10:20:00 GMT -5
With commerce, and industry stopped, many other things come to an end also.
[smear:#179109]and the sound of harpists and musicians, of flute players and trumpeters, will be heard in you no more, and a craftsman of any craft will be found in you no more, and the sound of the mill will be heard in you no more, Revelation 18:22[/smear:#1955e6:0]
Music like everything can be good or evil, but it often is Played in tandem with riotous living and entertainment, to ramp up the emotions, and thus it can be used as an attempt to fill the emptiness inside unbelievers, However, now they no longer have any desire or ability to play.... instead they have, the sound of deadly silence. No one has any heart or motivation to play secular music anymore ( as opposed to the Joyful, worship filled, sweet, beautiful etc. music which will always be in Heaven).
The same goes for any craft ( be it artistic, or any kind of industry, factories are gone, or any jobs really, for that matter)
We've seen smaller sized previews of this on a smaller scale, in our country over the last 100 years, the 1920's depression, and even right now, with so many jobs having come to a standstill with this virus.
However, this will be so much bigger, a complete and total end. All of the happiness that secular nonbeliever's had is finished. A couple of other things they found pleasure in, that will have passed away, are in the next verse: [smear:#26862d]
23 and the light of a lamp will shine in you no more, and the voice of bridegroom and bride will be heard in you no more, for your merchants were the great ones of the earth, and all nations were deceived by your sorcery. Revelation 18:23[/smear:#caac07:0]
There will no longer be any weddings, candles, happiness, etc. and the merchants were great in power,
for some reason that made me think of a news headline I saw yesterday, which read:
Jeff Bezos is on course to be the world's first trillionaire as the virus helps Amazon
( not that the virus intentionally did any such a thing, but sooo many more people than ever....including me, are buying online these days from Amazon). I did not think of that because of any thought about the man, good or bad, but just thinking about having unimaginable wealth like that, and then it is gone forever and ever....that alone must e a shock to someone in such a position.....
But these merchants in the tribulation, are definitely not saved, so losing everything is the least of their sorrows!
Even worse the verse talks about their sorcery.
Bringing to mind: [smear:#224e4e] These two things shall come to you in a moment, in one day; the loss of children and widowhood shall come upon you in full measure, in spite of your many sorceries and the great power of your enchantments. Isaiah 47:9[/smear:#b719e6:0]
[smear:#338c51]Stand fast in your enchantments and your many sorceries, with which you have labored from your youth; perhaps you may be able to succeed; perhaps you may inspire terror. Isaiah 47:12[/smear:#e619da:0]
Then the final reason is given for Babylon's judgment and destruction ..... her murderous killing of God's people.
Done for Today.
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,468
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Post by fearnot on May 5, 2020 12:18:47 GMT -5
Well, I was thinking that perhaps in China and even North Korea the presidents are looked upon as semi-god like? I remember when Time magazine had on it's cover, France's Macron walking on water etc. And I remember hearing school children singing a song about President Obama as some sort of savior also Newsweek editior Evan Thomas saying that Obama Is ‘Sort of God’
www.newsbusters.org/blogs/nb/kyle-drennen/2009/06/05/newsweeks-evan-thomas-obama-sort-god
And in the back of my mind I keep thinking that it's true of Japan's emperor (that he too, might also be considered to be divine by some of the Japanese ? etc.
But I get what you are saying for sure....attack the topic not the person.
I could be totally wrong
I know when Obama was President it was vicious and nasty, but correct me if I am wrong still, it 'seemed' to me, to be more or mostly... about his policies
Whereas, with President Trump ( tho it is certainly about his policies), it seems to me to be more often about him personally things like: he is a racists a homophobic stupid etc etc etc.
And for sure, his 'mouth' does not help He seems to lack a 'filter'
I often wonder if that is partially being from New York ( not that everybody in NY is lacking a 'filter') but whenever I would visit NY it did 'seem' like the people were more likely to say exactly what they thought, or were more brash, and so on.
I too had a hard time back when Obama was President making sure I just talked about policy issues ( tho I did get caught up in was he really even a true citizen and other conspiracies)
but he was a more 'genteel' smooth talker than Trump, so most anti-Obama folks stayed ( at least I seem to remember it that way) as disagreeing with issues.
And....
I actually remember.... once ( at least once LOL)
of agreeing with something he did and said....
It doesn't 'seem' like that ever ever happens with those who hate Trump.... but of course, I am not everywhere present, and thus have not heard everything every person who dislikes or hates President Trump
what his critics have said....
Maybe they, like me with President Obama have found one thing he has said or done that they approve of?
Some of the things I have liked about President Trump are his stand on Israel, and for the unborn, and even if he is not a Christian, he does seem to stand up for Christians,
his pulling out of save the planet ( it has slipped my mind what that really was titled arrgghhhh) anyway, things like that.
I am not fond of his boasting, and sometimes hurtful statements tho :( on the other hand, I do sometimes find him funny too
But no he is NOT my savior, and I think God may be ( I don't know for sure, it just seems possible) is bringing judgement on our country for so many reasons. Nevertheless, I trust only in God.
But between the two Presidents, as far as policies go, I do way prefer President Trump.
it does seem like he has gotten the worst treatment of any President ever. However, they all have ...all Presidents get slammed.
And yes, Trump brings a large amount of it on himself.....but even so even that factored in,
it seems like there is a lot more going on
like Satan perhaps hated the stand Trump took on Israel,
and continues to have Jay Sekulow as one of his attorneys.
Jay fights so hard for Christians and the unborn babies ( so I think Trump made the best choice possible in picking Jay Sekulow as one of his attorneys!!)
I keep praying that Jay ( a Jewish Christian) will yet lead Trump to the Lord.... it is still possible... I 'think' some seeds might be planted,
but its so hard to know if a person in power is just posturing in order to maintain their status or....
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Post by Cindy on May 6, 2020 9:27:27 GMT -5
I'm sorry Barbara, but I didn't get any sleep last night and I'm just not up to doing anything that requires any thought. In other words, I can't think straight lol. So I'll have to get back to you tomorrow.
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,468
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Post by fearnot on May 6, 2020 10:51:01 GMT -5
I am so sorry to hear that....been there and I know how hard it is!! See you ( God willing) tomorrow :)
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,468
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Post by fearnot on May 6, 2020 12:14:20 GMT -5
In this chapter we see rejoicing and praise, Jesus is about to take back the title deed of the earth, and start his millennium kingdom.
[smear:#c711b9] After this I heard what seemed to be the loud voice of a great multitude in heaven, crying out,
“Hallelujah! Salvation and glory and power belong to our God, 2 for his judgments are true and just; for he has judged the great prostitute who corrupted the earth with her immorality, and has avenged on her the blood of his servants.” Revelation 19:1,2[/smear:#38e619:0]
When we read 'After this' We are reminded God has a time table, sometimes we are told it in general, and sometimes fairly specifically, but not exactly, that is up to God, However, He is never 'late'
[smear:#fa0a3a]9 The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness...... 2 Peter 3:9[/smear:#11fa0a:0]
This is true for promises and judgments.
But now, we hear the praise, glorifying and hallelujahs of celestial joy of God's people. Reminding us of this verse:
[smear:#0e5d5e]Let sinners be consumed from the earth, and let the wicked be no more! Bless the Lord, O my soul! Praise the Lord! Psalm 104:35 [/smear:#e66119:0]
God has delivered His people from their enemies.... this does not make God unfair, but rather, a righteous judge.
[smear:#e6194a]9 the fear of the Lord is clean, enduring forever; the rules of the Lord are true, and righteous altogether. 10 More to be desired are they than gold, even much fine gold;... Psalms 19:9,10[/smear:#108e20:0]
The fact they are rejoicing is not cruel, insensitive or unloving... the unsaved of this generation have had more dramatic opportunities to know the truth than any people in any time. They had the 144,000 evangelists, angels flying about giving the gospel, the 2 witnesses, and even the judgments like no other. They could have repented and been saved but instead hardened their hearts, into irreversible unbelief. And the hate God, Jesus and Christians.
The joy is not because they have chosen damnation, but rather God and Jesus will be honored.
Done for today
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Post by Cindy on May 7, 2020 9:13:00 GMT -5
With commerce, and industry stopped, many other things come to an end also.
[smear:#179109]and the sound of harpists and musicians, of flute players and trumpeters, will be heard in you no more, and a craftsman of any craft will be found in you no more, and the sound of the mill will be heard in you no more, Revelation 18:22[/smear:#1955e6:0]
Music like everything can be good or evil, but it often is Played in tandem with riotous living and entertainment, to ramp up the emotions, and thus it can be used as an attempt to fill the emptiness inside unbelievers, However, now they no longer have any desire or ability to play.... instead they have, the sound of deadly silence. No one has any heart or motivation to play secular music anymore ( as opposed to the Joyful, worship filled, sweet, beautiful etc. music which will always be in Heaven).
The same goes for any craft ( be it artistic, or any kind of industry, factories are gone, or any jobs really, for that matter)
We've seen smaller sized previews of this on a smaller scale, in our country over the last 100 years, the 1920's depression, and even right now, with so many jobs having come to a standstill with this virus.
However, this will be so much bigger, a complete and total end. All of the happiness that secular nonbeliever's had is finished. A couple of other things they found pleasure in, that will have passed away, are in the next verse: [smear:#26862d]
23 and the light of a lamp will shine in you no more, and the voice of bridegroom and bride will be heard in you no more, for your merchants were the great ones of the earth, and all nations were deceived by your sorcery. Revelation 18:23[/smear:#caac07:0]
There will no longer be any weddings, candles, happiness, etc. and the merchants were great in power,
for some reason that made me think of a news headline I saw yesterday, which read:
Jeff Bezos is on course to be the world's first trillionaire as the virus helps Amazon
( not that the virus intentionally did any such a thing, but sooo many more people than ever....including me, are buying online these days from Amazon). I did not think of that because of any thought about the man, good or bad, but just thinking about having unimaginable wealth like that, and then it is gone forever and ever....that alone must e a shock to someone in such a position.....
But these merchants in the tribulation, are definitely not saved, so losing everything is the least of their sorrows!
Even worse the verse talks about their sorcery.
Bringing to mind: [smear:#224e4e] These two things shall come to you in a moment, in one day; the loss of children and widowhood shall come upon you in full measure, in spite of your many sorceries and the great power of your enchantments. Isaiah 47:9[/smear:#b719e6:0]
[smear:#338c51]Stand fast in your enchantments and your many sorceries, with which you have labored from your youth; perhaps you may be able to succeed; perhaps you may inspire terror. Isaiah 47:12[/smear:#e619da:0]
Then the final reason is given for Babylon's judgment and destruction ..... her murderous killing of God's people.
Done for Today.
Good! There's one other thing that verse 23 shows us: it shows the true nature of the occult, which is to deceive people. Of course the Bible condemns the occult and we are to have nothing to do with it. Wiersbe says that the word translated sorcery comes from the same word as our word pharmacy. Obviously this has to do with drugs; a more relevant & contemporary application could hardly be found. Also I'm unsure where you got that there wouldn't be any candles... that's not true, as the verse isn't talking about candles at all. When Revelation 18:23 speaks about no light of a lamp will shine, it's saying that there will be no commerce, nothing "normal" will exist anymore.
Well, I was thinking that perhaps in China and even North Korea the presidents are looked upon as semi-god like? I remember when Time magazine had on it's cover, France's Macron walking on water etc. And I remember hearing school children singing a song about President Obama as some sort of savior also Newsweek editior Evan Thomas saying that Obama Is ‘Sort of God’
www.newsbusters.org/blogs/nb/kyle-drennen/2009/06/05/newsweeks-evan-thomas-obama-sort-god
And in the back of my mind I keep thinking that it's true of Japan's emperor (that he too, might also be considered to be divine by some of the Japanese ? etc.
But I get what you are saying for sure....attack the topic not the person.
I could be totally wrong
I know when Obama was President it was vicious and nasty, but correct me if I am wrong still, it 'seemed' to me, to be more or mostly... about his policies
Whereas, with President Trump ( tho it is certainly about his policies), it seems to me to be more often about him personally things like: he is a racists a homophobic stupid etc etc etc.
And for sure, his 'mouth' does not help He seems to lack a 'filter'
I often wonder if that is partially being from New York ( not that everybody in NY is lacking a 'filter') but whenever I would visit NY it did 'seem' like the people were more likely to say exactly what they thought, or were more brash, and so on.
I too had a hard time back when Obama was President making sure I just talked about policy issues ( tho I did get caught up in was he really even a true citizen and other conspiracies)
but he was a more 'genteel' smooth talker than Trump, so most anti-Obama folks stayed ( at least I seem to remember it that way) as disagreeing with issues.
And....
I actually remember.... once ( at least once LOL)
of agreeing with something he did and said....
It doesn't 'seem' like that ever ever happens with those who hate Trump.... but of course, I am not everywhere present, and thus have not heard everything every person who dislikes or hates President Trump
what his critics have said....
Maybe they, like me with President Obama have found one thing he has said or done that they approve of?
Some of the things I have liked about President Trump are his stand on Israel, and for the unborn, and even if he is not a Christian, he does seem to stand up for Christians,
his pulling out of save the planet ( it has slipped my mind what that really was titled arrgghhhh) anyway, things like that.
I am not fond of his boasting, and sometimes hurtful statements tho :( on the other hand, I do sometimes find him funny too
But no he is NOT my savior, and I think God may be ( I don't know for sure, it just seems possible) is bringing judgement on our country for so many reasons. Nevertheless, I trust only in God.
But between the two Presidents, as far as policies go, I do way prefer President Trump.
it does seem like he has gotten the worst treatment of any President ever. However, they all have ...all Presidents get slammed.
And yes, Trump brings a large amount of it on himself.....but even so even that factored in,
it seems like there is a lot more going on
like Satan perhaps hated the stand Trump took on Israel,
and continues to have Jay Sekulow as one of his attorneys.
Jay fights so hard for Christians and the unborn babies ( so I think Trump made the best choice possible in picking Jay Sekulow as one of his attorneys!!)
I keep praying that Jay ( a Jewish Christian) will yet lead Trump to the Lord.... it is still possible... I 'think' some seeds might be planted,
but its so hard to know if a person in power is just posturing in order to maintain their status or....
Some people do stick to attacking the policies, but in both Obama's case and Trumps, many also attacked the person. I know one person who used to post here that would have gone ballistic and attacked you for what you said in this post. That's how bad it's gotten. And sadly that's become the norm. I am so sorry to hear that....been there and I know how hard it is!! See you ( God willing) tomorrow :) Yep, same way today.
In this chapter we see rejoicing and praise, Jesus is about to take back the title deed of the earth, and start his millennium kingdom.
[smear:#c711b9] After this I heard what seemed to be the loud voice of a great multitude in heaven, crying out,
“Hallelujah! Salvation and glory and power belong to our God, 2 for his judgments are true and just; for he has judged the great prostitute who corrupted the earth with her immorality, and has avenged on her the blood of his servants.” Revelation 19:1,2[/smear:#38e619:0]
When we read 'After this' We are reminded God has a time table, sometimes we are told it in general, and sometimes fairly specifically, but not exactly, that is up to God, However, He is never 'late'
[smear:#fa0a3a]9 The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness...... 2 Peter 3:9[/smear:#11fa0a:0]
This is true for promises and judgments.
But now, we hear the praise, glorifying and hallelujahs of celestial joy of God's people. Reminding us of this verse:
[smear:#0e5d5e]Let sinners be consumed from the earth, and let the wicked be no more! Bless the Lord, O my soul! Praise the Lord! Psalm 104:35 [/smear:#e66119:0]
God has delivered His people from their enemies.... this does not make God unfair, but rather, a righteous judge.
[smear:#e6194a]9 the fear of the Lord is clean, enduring forever; the rules of the Lord are true, and righteous altogether. 10 More to be desired are they than gold, even much fine gold;... Psalms 19:9,10[/smear:#108e20:0]
The fact they are rejoicing is not cruel, insensitive or unloving... the unsaved of this generation have had more dramatic opportunities to know the truth than any people in any time. They had the 144,000 evangelists, angels flying about giving the gospel, the 2 witnesses, and even the judgments like no other. They could have repented and been saved but instead hardened their hearts, into irreversible unbelief. And the hate God, Jesus and Christians.
The joy is not because they have chosen damnation, but rather God and Jesus will be honored.
Done for today
Good, but you forgot Revelation 18:24 lol. Here it is: “In her was found the blood of prophets and of the saints, and of all who have been killed on the earth.”” (Revelation 18:24) This is again speaking of Babylon. Here we are shown that the city of Babylon during the Tribulation represents everything that is against God and His people through all the ages.
Also, Revelation 19:1–2 act as a bridge between the Tribulation and the Millennial Kingdom. The Tribulation is over and the Lord has begun His word of bringing in the Millennial Kingdom. It hasn't started yet though. There will be a gap of some time, between the end of the Trib and the start of God's Kingdom. Many think this will be the "extra days" Daniel saw. ““From the time that the daily sacrifice is abolished and the abomination that causes desolation is set up, there will be 1,290 days. Blessed is the one who waits for and reaches the end of the 1,335 days.” (Daniel 12:11–12) Daniel 12:11 shows us 1,260 days which make up the last 3½ years of the Tribulation, then 30 more days to make 1,290 which many think will be used as the time for the judgments in Matthew 25, to see who will enter the Millennial Kingdom. Then there's an extra 45 days shown in Daniel 12:12. Some think that these extra days will be needed to set up the new boundaries of Israel and to provide time for the Jews all over the world to be brought to Israel. It could also be used as time to clean up the earth or even just Israel. And of course it could also be used to set up the rule of the Millennial Kingdom and get everyone in place, knowing their duties etc.
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,468
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Post by fearnot on May 7, 2020 9:50:28 GMT -5
Thank you for catching what I missed.... another sleepy day and with pain.
However, I got to read your great info on verse 24 :)
Which reminds me.... as we are getting close to the end of Revelation,
Do you want to choose and do the next book?
I am not sure when, Revelation will be done, but if we decide ahead of time, we won't lose a day or two, if it happens to end on a weekend :)
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,468
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Post by fearnot on May 7, 2020 10:53:39 GMT -5
Another Hallelujah!
[smear:#e63919] 3 Once more they cried out,
“Hallelujah! The smoke from her goes up forever and ever.”
4 And the twenty-four elders and the four living creatures fell down and worshiped God who was seated on the throne, saying, “Amen. Hallelujah!” [/smear:#37ac19:0]
The rebellion has ended, the judgment is perpetual by the fact that the smoke rises forever and ever.
Which calls to mind this verse:
[smear:#543176]28 And he looked down toward Sodom and Gomorrah and toward all the land of the valley, and he looked and, behold, the smoke of the land went up like the smoke of a furnace. Genesis 19:28 [/smear:#498622:0] and this also
[smear:#e619cb]8 For the Lord has a day of vengeance, a year of recompense for the cause of Zion. 9 And the streams of Edom shall be turned into pitch, and her soil into sulfur; her land shall become burning pitch. 10 Night and day it shall not be quenched; its smoke shall go up forever. From generation to generation it shall lie waste; none shall pass through it forever and ever. Isaiah 34:8-10[/smear:#26234d:0]
The result is permanent, and the rule of man is over. The smoke reminds us of Hell also.
God's people have for all of history, prayed for righteousness, justice, love, peace etc. and so now, the old unjust rule is gone ..... forever gone...
and Jesus is coming:
[smear:#a01e06] For to us a child is born, to us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder, and his name shall be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. Isaiah 9:6[/smear:#73086f:0]
Plus
[smear:#430345]5 “Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will raise up for David a righteous Branch, and he shall reign as king and deal wisely, and shall execute justice and righteousness in the land. Jeremiah 23:5 [/smear:#ab890d:0]
The 24 elders most likely represent the church ( believers)
The 4 living creatures are most likely high in the angelic order
Amen is Affirmation, agreement
and
Hallelujah means to praise God
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Post by Cindy on May 8, 2020 10:35:55 GMT -5
Thank you for catching what I missed.... another sleepy day and with pain.
However, I got to read your great info on verse 24 :)
Which reminds me.... as we are getting close to the end of Revelation,
Do you want to choose and do the next book?
I am not sure when, Revelation will be done, but if we decide ahead of time, we won't lose a day or two, if it happens to end on a weekend :)
Honestly, I'm kind of surprised that you chose to do Revelation, because you said you wanted to do one that wasn't a book but was instead just about the end times. Then the next day when I came here, you'd started Revelation. I didn't say anything as I wasn't sure where you were going with it. While you've added verses here and there from other books, to the casual reader it would look like the only place that really talks about the end times is Revelation, and that's far from the case. You had even mentioned before starting this that you especially wanted to talk about illness that we're experiencing now and how it relates to the Tribulation. I think you did mention it once here and then I posted about it too more recently. In other words, this hasn't been a talk about the end times, but instead has been a study of the book of Revelation.
I'd like to make this what we said it was going to be, and actually just talk about the end times that we're living in now, the rapture, the Tribulation and the Millennial Kingdom; of course backing up what we say with the relevant scriptures. Or, I could change the title of this thread to A study of Revelation, and we can start a new thread called The End Times. Or do you want to do something else?
Another Hallelujah!
[smear:#e63919] 3 Once more they cried out,
“Hallelujah! The smoke from her goes up forever and ever.”
4 And the twenty-four elders and the four living creatures fell down and worshiped God who was seated on the throne, saying, “Amen. Hallelujah!” [/smear:#37ac19:0]
The rebellion has ended, the judgment is perpetual by the fact that the smoke rises forever and ever.
Which calls to mind this verse:
[smear:#543176]28 And he looked down toward Sodom and Gomorrah and toward all the land of the valley, and he looked and, behold, the smoke of the land went up like the smoke of a furnace. Genesis 19:28 [/smear:#498622:0] and this also
[smear:#e619cb]8 For the Lord has a day of vengeance, a year of recompense for the cause of Zion. 9 And the streams of Edom shall be turned into pitch, and her soil into sulfur; her land shall become burning pitch. 10 Night and day it shall not be quenched; its smoke shall go up forever. From generation to generation it shall lie waste; none shall pass through it forever and ever. Isaiah 34:8-10[/smear:#26234d:0]
The result is permanent, and the rule of man is over. The smoke reminds us of Hell also.
God's people have for all of history, prayed for righteousness, justice, love, peace etc. and so now, the old unjust rule is gone ..... forever gone...
and Jesus is coming:
[smear:#a01e06] For to us a child is born, to us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder, and his name shall be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. Isaiah 9:6[/smear:#73086f:0]
Plus
[smear:#430345]5 “Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will raise up for David a righteous Branch, and he shall reign as king and deal wisely, and shall execute justice and righteousness in the land. Jeremiah 23:5 [/smear:#ab890d:0]
The 24 elders most likely represent the church ( believers)
The 4 living creatures are most likely high in the angelic order
Amen is Affirmation, agreement
and
Hallelujah means to praise God
Good job! The smoke going up forever reminds me of what the end of Isaiah says: ““And they will go out and look upon the dead bodies of those who rebelled against me; their worm will not die, nor will their fire be quenched, and they will be loathsome to all mankind.”” (Isaiah 66:24) and also to what Jesus said when He spoke about Hell: “And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell, where “ ‘their worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched.’” (Mark 9:47–48)
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,468
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Post by fearnot on May 8, 2020 11:52:02 GMT -5
You are right, I did say End Times, and then just got off on a tangent at some point early on.
I really did not mean to give the impression that end times is only in Revelation... It is not!
I tend to get distracted more these days So feel free to point it out sooner
Whatever you think is best as far as changing the titles... And how long will we stay on it
maybe call this Revelation?
and 'end times' could be on going and added to from time to time or even daily if things come up....like the murder hornets?
I also think maybe one of the reasons I might have decided to go back to a book study, was because I had perhaps veered off into conspiracies and speculations a bit too much
and so ( I can't remember exactly )
but I might have thought, a good way to avoid that , was to stay as much in the word as possible
because even like this virus.....there is too much of a chance for me, to start bringing up things that might get you in trouble with your channel?
Anyway, after Revelation, maybe you pick the next book?
I apologize because I should have stuck with the program arrrggghhh! But I think I need reminders and exact limits on when bringing up current events that 'maybe' are end time related.....but not false news etc.
We have discussed that a bit....but I am a wee bit fearful, of making a mistake on some of what is out there.
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,468
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Post by fearnot on May 8, 2020 12:51:05 GMT -5
[smear:#9e4ba2]6 Then I heard what seemed to be the voice of a great multitude, like the roar of many waters and like the sound of mighty peals of thunder, crying out,
“Hallelujah! For the Lord our God the Almighty reigns. Revelation 19:6[/smear:#c54a22:0]
as to the roar of many waters we are reminded of
[smear:#d419e6]24 And when they went, I heard the sound of their wings like the sound of many waters, like the sound of the Almighty, a sound of tumult like the sound of an army
Ezekiel 1:24[/smear:#e67519:0]
Omnipotent :
means almighty: having unlimited power.
some scriptures pointing to this:
[smear:#e69719]“I know that you can do all things, and that no purpose of yours can be thwarted. Job 42:2[/smear:#c319e6:0]
[smear:#8a5297]17 ‘Ah, Lord God! It is you who have made the heavens and the earth by your great power and by your outstretched arm! Nothing is too hard for you. Jeremiah 32:17[/smear:#b06a2c:0]
[smear:#47a39d]26 But Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.” Matthew 19:26[/smear:#9a19e6:0]
Lord : means supreme in authority sovereign
There are sooooo many verse about the Lord ( over 6 thousand, I think) So I will just pick one or too
[smear:#2c19e6]But know that the Lord has set apart the godly for himself; the Lord hears when I call to him. Psalm 4:3[/smear:#e61945:2] [smear:#056f93] Therefore say to them, Thus declares the Lord of hosts: Return to me, says the Lord of hosts, and I will return to you, says the Lord of hosts. Zechariah 1:3[/smear:#e619a7:0]
God :
supreme deity
[smear:#9ae619]1 In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. Genesis 1:1[/smear:#9a19e6:0]
Done for today
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,468
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Post by fearnot on May 9, 2020 9:38:54 GMT -5
Hebrew weddings consisted of 3 phrases:
(1) Betrothal often when the couple were children or even before they were born: Which reminds us of this Bible verses concerning believers.
[smear:#57c666]4 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love Ephesians 1:4[/smear:#e619a7:0]
(2) Presentation (the festivities, often lasting several days, that preceded the ceremony) our presentation will begin with the rapture ( the church is the bride)
(3) The ceremony (the exchanging of vows).
Another reason for the joy, is the marriage of the Lamb. Jesus will have prepared a place for His bride:
[smear:#bc5d1a]1 “Let not your hearts be troubled. Believe in God; believe also in me. 2 In my Father's house are many rooms. If it were not so, would I have told you that I go to prepare a place for you? 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and will take you to myself, that where I am you may be also. John 14: 1-3[/smear:#19e689:0]
and so Heaven rejoices!
[smear:#3b8722]
7 Let us rejoice and exult and give him the glory, for the marriage of the Lamb has come, and his Bride has made herself ready; 8 it was granted her to clothe herself with fine linen, bright and pure”—
for the fine linen is the righteous deeds of the saints. Revelation 19:7,8[/smear:#e61930:0]
Jesus identified Himself as the bridegroom, in Matthew
[smear:#467c43]15 And Jesus said to them, “Can the wedding guests mourn as long as the bridegroom is with them? The days will come when the bridegroom is taken away from them, and then they will fast. Matthew 9:15[/smear:#e6199a:0]
Another statement by Jesus and marriage
[smear:#07c52c]1 And again Jesus spoke to them in parables, saying, 2 “The kingdom of heaven may be compared to a king who gave a wedding feast for his son, ...... Matthew 22:1[/smear:#080f49:0]
and the bride:
[smear:#19e62c]For I feel a divine jealousy for you, since I betrothed you to one husband, to present you as a pure virgin to Christ. 2 Corinthians 11:2[/smear:#d319e6:0]
A wedding....a wedding put on by the king and people not only refuse to go they ended up killing the messengers ( prophets, apostles etc.z)
So verse 7 in Matthew 22 says: [smear:#049288] 7 The king was angry, and he sent his troops and destroyed those murderers and burned their city. Matthew 22:7 [/smear:#e6ba19:0]
But now the Lamb has come and the bride is ready so the time for rejoicing, exulting, and giving glory can begin.
The bride did not make herself ready by 'works but by the power of God in her.
For this I toil, struggling with all [smear:#e66e19]his energy that he powerfully works within me[/smear:#db19e6:0]. Colossians 1:29
Done for today
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,468
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Post by fearnot on May 10, 2020 10:59:31 GMT -5
We have come to the final marriage supper, and those who attend are all blessed!
[smear:#2da22c]9 And the angel said to me, “Write this: Blessed are those who are invited to the marriage supper of the Lamb.” And he said to me, “These are the true words of God.” 10 Then I fell down at his feet to worship him, but he said to me, “You must not do that! I am a fellow servant with you and your brothers who hold to the testimony of Jesus. Worship God.” For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy. Revelation 19:9,10[/smear:#e619bb:0]
I think Jesus may have had in mind the final wedding supper when he said: [smear:#a61298] 29 I tell you I will not drink again of this fruit of the vine until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom.” Matthew 26:29[/smear:#19e62f:0]
Those invited may be redeemed Israel ( all the way up to and including John the Baptist, who died before the cross and resurrection of Jesus). Which brings to mind this verse:
[smear:#cb3371] 29 The one who has the bride is the bridegroom. The friend of the bridegroom, who stands and hears him, rejoices greatly at the bridegroom's voice. Therefore this joy of mine is now complete. John 3:29[/smear:#19e675:0]
Having seen all this,John is so overwhelmed that he falls at the angel's feet, to worship the angel but the angel tells John....you must not do that!!
we are not to worship angels:
[smear:#0f8f2d]Let no one disqualify you, insisting on asceticism and worship of angels,..... Colossians 2:18[/smear:#f3581a:0]
Believers are not to worship any other but God alone!! This is a a strong emphasis on the command against the worshiping of angels.
Another verse to reflect on this issue is
[smear:#c119e6]10 Then Jesus said to him, “Be gone, Satan! For it is written,
“‘You shall worship the Lord your God and him only shall you serve.’” Matthew 4:10[/smear:#e61982:0]
In fact, the angel here, tells John, he is just a servant, like John is a servant, and they must only worship God. In other words, do worship the messenger but worship He who the message is about.
and it is about, God the Father, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit.
Done for today.
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