fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383 
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Post by fearnot on Oct 7, 2021 16:29:12 GMT -5
My words are in this color
Bible scripture in this color
other people's words are in this color
Cindy wrote:
How does a parents sins affect their children?
How do the current sins of grandparents
affect their children and grandchildren?
To start....
with this verse:
16 “Fathers shall not be put to death because of their children,
nor shall children be put to death because of their fathers.
Each one shall be put to death for his own sin.
Deuteronomy 24:16
We have to die for our sins
( unless Jesus paid for all of them)
However, our sins do have an effect
on our children, grandchildren, and even neighbors
and strangers ( sometimes).
Take Adam for example:
Due to Adam's sin, all people are naturally sinners.
In fact, sin lead to the first murder
Cain, killed Abel.
Cain was Jealous of his brother
and it seems to me,
did not love Abel,
because he killed Abel in a jealous rage.
10 By this it is evident who are the children of God,
and who are the children of the devil:
whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God,
nor is the one who does not love his brother.
I John 3:10
However, the Biblical list of how sin
effected children and grandchildren
is quite long, and a sad testimony.
So then, there was Noah:
Not soon after getting off the ark
we notice several sins,
that would affect his son, Ham
and even, his grandson:
Canaan.
It started like this:
20 Noah began to be a man of the soil,
and he planted a vineyard.
21 He drank of the wine
and became drunk
and lay uncovered in his tent.
Genesis 9:20,21
Getting drunk, has led to innumerable
sexual sins throughout the ages.
I will continue this tomorrow
as it could take a few days
and being sick,
and falling asleep on a dime....
Done for Today
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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Post by fearnot on Oct 8, 2021 12:34:04 GMT -5
My words are in this color
Bible scripture in this color
my additions
Moving on to Abraham
3 But God came to Abimelech in a dream by night and said to him,
“Behold, you are a dead man
because of the woman whom you have taken,
for she is a man's wife.”
4 Now Abimelech had not approached her. So he said,
“Lord, will you kill an innocent people?
5 Did he not himself say to me, ‘She is my sister’?
And she herself said, ‘He is my brother.’
In the integrity of my heart and the innocence of my hands I have done this.”
6 Then God said to him in the dream,
“Yes, I know that you have done this in the integrity of your heart,
and it was I who kept you from sinning against me.
Therefore I did not let you touch her.
7 Now then, return the man's wife, for he is a prophet,
so that he will pray for you, and you shall live.
But if you do not return her,
know that you shall surely die, you and all who are yours.”
Genesis 20:3-7
These were sort of 1/2 lies,
but would have had dire results.
In this case, because of Abraham's fear, of Abimelech,
he told a 'truth' ( Sarah was his 1/2 sister)
but in order to imply they were not married ( which was not true).
However, this deception could have caused some severe violations,
culturally,
and sins against God.
Not to mention, Abraham was trying to protect his life,
but not really protecting Sarah.
Plus, Abraham was not fully trusting God.
This does not mean Abraham was not a believer,
but he had up and downs, doubts, and fears.
But we can see how this could have gone very wrong,
and it seems this lying to get out of trouble got passed on to his children.
Because later on Isaac tells some men out of fear,
that his wife Rebekah, is his sister.
Done for today
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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Post by fearnot on Oct 10, 2021 12:40:09 GMT -5
My words are in this color
Bible scripture in this color
other people's words are in this color
I've been sleeping, almost around the clock
I will try to do a little today
Abraham's sin with Hagar, has lasting negative results
even to this very day,
11 Behold, you are pregnant
and shall bear a son.
You shall call his name Ishmael,
because the Lord has listened to your affliction.
12 He shall be a wild donkey of a man,
his hand against everyone
and everyone's hand against him,
and he shall dwell over against all his kinsmen.”
Genesis 16:11,12
We may wish our sins, do not affect our family
but look at Achan"
10 The Lord said to Joshua, “Get up! Why have you fallen on your face?
11 Israel has sinned; they have transgressed my covenant that I commanded them;
they have taken some of the devoted things;
they have stolen
and lied
and put them among their own belongings.
12 Therefore the people of Israel cannot stand before their enemies.
They turn their backs before their enemies,
because they have become devoted for destruction
20 And Achan answered Joshua,
“Truly I have sinned against the Lord God of Israel,
and this is what I did:
21 when I saw among the spoil a beautiful cloak from Shinar,
and 200 shekels of silver, and a bar of gold weighing 50 shekels,
then I coveted them and took them.
And see, they are hidden in the earth inside my tent,
with the silver underneath.”
24 And Joshua and all Israel with him took Achan
the son of Zerah,
and the silver and the cloak and the bar of gold,
and his sons and daughters
and his oxen and donkeys and sheep
and his tent and all that he had.
25 And Joshua said, “Why did you bring trouble on us?
The Lord brings trouble on you today.”
And all Israel stoned him with stones.
They burned them with fire and stoned them with stones.
Joshua 7:10-12,20-21,24-25
Done for Today
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Post by Cindy on Oct 11, 2021 10:21:59 GMT -5
Please read this entire post before you post anything else on this!
Good! When you're doing a series, like this, you don't have to write over and over and over "my words are, and Cindy's are and etc etc. Just do it on your first post, unless you intend to change the colors.
On your first one you said that getting drunk has led to many sexual sins through the ages, which is true, but you didn't say that getting drunk is also a sin or that it also can be the cause of many other sins, including murder. Plus, there's a reason that getting drunk causes people to sin. When you drink enough alcohol is causes you to lose control of your mind to a certain extent, and it also increases or puts more emphasis on your emotions. The Lord tells us not to trust our feelings, but when you're drunk, you trust them and act on them. The Lord also tells us to stay in control of our thoughts, which you cannot do when you're drunk. Finally, the Lord tells us to do all things in moderation. If you get drunk, you're not drinking in moderation. All those things are sins. But most of all you don't show how any of this has anything to do with parents/grandparents and children.
Your second post on October 8th, was also good, but you said that Genesis 20:3-7 showed half lies that would have had dire results, but again you didn't show what the results were or how this affected their children. The rest of this post you again didn't show these things. you just posted scripture and said they had bad results or something along those lines. The only one that shows any connection to children is the last one, and the only reason it does is because the scripture itself shows it. You and I know what these scriptures pertain to, and we understand what happened because of them because we both know the Bible very well. But if Eva (from Greece) or anyone else that doesn't know the Old Testament really well wouldn't have a clue what you're talking about in this post.
You're doing the same thing with your October 10th post. You first post Genesis 16:11-12 where Jesus (the Angel of the Lord) says something to Hagar, but you didn't even show the first part of the scripture which tells who was talking and who they were talking to. You say it's a sin of Abrahams, but not how that happened or what that has to do with Hagar and with what the Angel said to her and why He said it. Nor do you explain how it affects her children or what it has to do with Abraham or his children. You do the same thing with Achan when you post the scriptures about his sin. You don't explain why his children and his wife were killed, you just post the scripture. You can't just do that hon. You need to explain all this stuff. As much as I hate to say this, 99% of the people who would read this wouldn't have any idea of what in the world you were talking about because they've never read or studied the Bible before.
What I'd like to have you do is have you do, is wait until you are feeling better and then quote your first post from Oct 7th and re do it, then the next day quote your next post from Oct 8thand re do it, and then your last post from Oct 10th and re do it. I'm suggesting you quote your old post so you can continue to use those scriptures and just add the explanations to each "story" which should save you some time. When you're sick, if you want to post something, just say Hi and whatever you want to post in the chat thread. 
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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Post by fearnot on Oct 13, 2021 14:39:36 GMT -5
Sounds good.....it may yet be awhile but God will maybe not as long, as it seems it might right now .
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Post by Cindy on Oct 14, 2021 11:25:09 GMT -5
Sounds good.....it may yet be awhile but God will maybe not as long, as it seems it might right now .
I understand the first part, but either you're really sick or really haven't slept in a long time or else maybe you're not really awake...because the part I underlined doesn't make any sense at all... at least none that I can figure out.  I'm praying for you and Leonard and asking my daughter to pray for you as well. I told Bruce about you guys yesterday telling him you all needed a lot of prayer too. Hope you're feeling better soon!  |
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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Post by fearnot on Oct 14, 2021 20:52:55 GMT -5
Sorry, Yes, really that sick.
I think I was trying to say...maybe it will be longer
or maybe shorter
it all depends on God.
Also, not a lot of sleep
not eating or only a spoonful every couple of days.
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Post by Cindy on Oct 15, 2021 8:35:22 GMT -5
 get better soon!
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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Post by fearnot on Oct 26, 2021 9:22:08 GMT -5
My words are in this color
Bible scripture in this color
other people's words are in this color
However, I am redoing the first three,
so my additional words
( not in the first writing)
will be in this color
Cindy wrote:
How does a parents sins affect their children?
How do the current sins of grandparents
affect their children and grandchildren?
To start....
with this verse:
16 “Fathers shall not be put to death because of their children,
nor shall children be put to death because of their fathers.
Each one shall be put to death for his own sin.
Deuteronomy 24:16
We have to die for our sins
( unless Jesus paid for all of them)
However, our sins do have an effect
on our children, grandchildren, and even neighbors
and strangers ( sometimes).
Take Adam for example:
Due to Adam's sin, all people are naturally sinners.
In fact, sin lead to the first murder
Cain, killed Abel.
Cain was Jealous of his brother
and it seems to me,
did not love Abel,
because he killed Abel in a jealous rage.
10 By this it is evident who are the children of God,
and who are the children of the devil:
whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God,
nor is the one who does not love his brother.
I John 3:10
However, the Biblical list of how sin
effected children and grandchildren
is quite long, and a sad testimony.
So then, there was Noah:
(Cindy already wrote about the effects etc of getting drunk,
So I won't put that in again)
Not soon after getting off the ark
we notice several sins,
that would affect his son, Ham
and even, his grandson:
Canaan.
It started like this:
20 Noah began to be a man of the soil,
and he planted a vineyard.
21 He drank of the wine
and became drunk
and lay uncovered in his tent.
Genesis 9:20,21
Getting drunk, has led to innumerable
sexual sins throughout the ages.
God could have chosen from any number of sins,
and so one might wonder why did God chose getting drunk,
and taking one's clothes off?
It kind of,
seems like a 'lesser' sin
when one considers so many other sins.
I could be wrong, but I think,
baby Christians, and even so more mature saints,
still struggle with the idea,
some sins,
are sooo much worse than others.
To a 'degree' this is true, I think
but even the worst sins, ever committed,
started out in the mind
and most often had their 'start' as a 'small' sin.
But how would seeing Noah drunk and naked
affect his sons in a negative way?
I am thinking one of the first verses that might shed some light on this would be
the KJV version of this verse:
22 Abstain from all appearance of evil.
1 Thessalonians 5:22
God remember considered Noah a 'righteous' man.
9 These are the generations of Noah.
Noah was a righteous man,
blameless in his generation.
Noah walked with God.
Genesis 6:9
So a child ( of any age)
could come to the wrong conclusion,
that if a 'righteous' man,
can get drunk, and lay about in an less that modest,
and undignified, manner,
it must be okay, or at least, not too bad a 'sin'
and they also can do the same.
However, 'little' sins, almost never stay 'little'
sins have a way of growing, worse and worse.
I wonder if God, wanted us to reflect on this
misconception,
that if it is ONLY a 'small'
little sin, it's not soooo bad.
I am not sure, if this is the direction
you were thinking of Cindy or not?
So I will leave it for now,
and see if this is a bit better explained
or
needs yet more?
Today, is the first day, I felt
a bit like maybe I could 'tackle'
working on this.....
but am I?
Done for Today
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Post by Cindy on Oct 26, 2021 11:14:58 GMT -5
Yes, that's much better! Thank you! I would like to say a couple of things about your comments concerning Noah's being naked and about him being drunk. Being naked wasn't a sin as he was in his own tent and not out in public. It wasn't even a sin for his kids to see him naked. I'm sure they probably had seen him that way a number of times before. The sin was what was in his son's mind when he saw his father naked. When he went to tell his brothers, they didn't share his sinful thoughts, and let him know what they thought about it. That's why they walked in backwards to cover their father up. Not because it would have been a sin for them to see him naked, but because they were showing their brother just how sinful his thoughts were and that they didn't want to be contaminated by them.
Getting drunk was a sin, but Noah may not have done that on purpose. (we just don't know). For example, MacArthur explains: Fermentation, which leads to drunkenness, may have been caused by changed ecological conditions as a result of the Flood. So while it was a sin, it was unintentional and God forgave him.
I should also say that when I wrote that question, I wasn't thinking of listing a ton of scriptures and showing how individual sins happened. Instead I was thinking of showing how sin affects others (even people who aren't present when it happens, and even generations after it happens). God says that people do not pay for the sins of others, and yet we see others are affected by our sins. I can think of one word that would explain how that happens....ok 3 words lol. and then show examples of it in scripture if you want to.
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Post by Cindy on Oct 26, 2021 11:28:27 GMT -5
I just realized that Faithlife has a good explanation for what happened to Noah:
Two difficult interpretive issues arise in the incident between Ham and Noah: understanding the nature of Ham’s offense and making sense of why Ham’s son, Canaan, was cursed instead of Ham (see note on v. 25). The text of v. 22 may be literally rendered as “Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father.” However, this could be an idiom—it may not be about Noah being nude, but an incident that greatly insults Noah. Ham’s offense could be explained as voyeurism, castration of Noah, sodomy, or incestuous rape of his mother. The voyeurism view is often defended by what Ham’s brothers, Shem and Japheth, do in the wake of the incident—they walk backward into the tent and cover their father’s nakedness. This act doesn’t explain the offense, though; it simply shows their respect for their father. There is no OT prohibition against seeing one’s father naked, so this interpretation would have likely been foreign to the original reader; likewise, no such prohibition appears elsewhere in ancient Near Eastern law. Against the idea that Ham’s offense was voyeurism, the Hebrew phrase which may be literally rendered “saw the nakedness” appears elsewhere in the OT referring to illicit sexual contact and intercourse. To “see [ra’ah in Hebrew] the nakedness [erwah in Hebrew]” of someone is used in the Law (Lev 18; 20) to prohibit certain sexual relations. This idiom suggests that Ham’s offense may have been of a sexual nature, perhaps homosexual rape of his father or paternal incest. However, no combination of the relevant Hebrew words—ra’ah (“see”), galah (“uncover”), and erwah (“nakedness”)—occurs in the OT in reference to homosexuality. The Hebrew phrase for “uncovering the nakedness of ” actually refers to sexual intercourse with a man’s wife. For example, in a literal rendering of Lev 18:7, “the nakedness of your father” means “the nakedness of your mother”; in Lev 18:14, a literal rendering of “the nakedness of your father’s brother” is clarified as “his wife” and “your aunt” (see Lev 18:8; Lev 20:11, Lev 20:20-21). Although the usual expression in Leviticus is to “uncover [galah in Hebrew] the nakedness,” both idioms are used in parallel in Lev 20:17. Therefore, Ham’s offense may have been maternal incest and the forcible rape of his mother. This explains the curse of Ham’s son that follows (see Gen 9:25–27; compare note on v. 25). Faithlife Study Bible
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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Post by fearnot on Oct 26, 2021 13:36:12 GMT -5
Thank you for the added information.
For sure it was disrespectful, especially, wanting to include his brothers...
that was not honoring one's father and mother.
But his 2 brothers would not indulge in making fun of their father.
And it seemingly did effect at least one child in a very negative way....
Canaan ( one of Ham's son's).
Like you wrote
uncovering nakedness, seems to have become a major issue
Starting with:
6 “None of you shall approach any one of his close relatives to uncover nakedness. I am the Lord. Leviticus 18:6
and it goes on and on!
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Post by Cindy on Oct 27, 2021 10:50:21 GMT -5
Thank you for the added information.
For sure it was disrespectful, especially, wanting to include his brothers...
that was not honoring one's father and mother.
But his 2 brothers would not indulge in making fun of their father.
And it seemingly did effect at least one child in a very negative way....
Canaan ( one of Ham's son's).
Like you wrote
uncovering nakedness, seems to have become a major issue
Starting with:
6 “None of you shall approach any one of his close relatives to uncover nakedness. I am the Lord. Leviticus 18:6
and it goes on and on!
Did you understand what I said in my first post about this study? Here's what I wrote there:
I should also say that when I wrote that question, I wasn't thinking of listing a ton of scriptures and showing how individual sins happened. Instead I was thinking of showing how sin affects others (even people who aren't present when it happens, and even generations after it happens). God says that people do not pay for the sins of others, and yet we see others are affected by our sins. I can think of one word that would explain how that happens....ok 3 words lol. and then show examples of it in scripture if you want to. |
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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Post by fearnot on Oct 27, 2021 10:55:38 GMT -5
I think I am still confused about exactly what or how to do this one.
I wonder if I maybe should do a different one, because, I just don't seem to be understanding?
What do you think? Should I just do a different one?
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Post by Cindy on Oct 27, 2021 11:40:20 GMT -5
No, don't do a different one. I'll just explain it better. I could have told you what the 3 words were, but thought you'd figure it out and didn't want to take it away from you. The 3 words that show how our sins affect our children, grandchildren and other people are: Sins have consequences! Then you can show how one sin affect another person in scripture and often cause that other person to sin too. So while that other person is not condemned because of our sin, since our sin made them sin, they are condemned for their own sin. (not to mention since we, in effect, caused them to sin, our sin is judged more harshly. This is why God says He punishes the sins of the fathers on their children up to the 4 generation. “‘The LORD is slow to anger, abounding in love and forgiving sin and rebellion. Yet he does not leave the guilty unpunished; he punishes the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation.’” (Numbers 14:18)
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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Post by fearnot on Oct 28, 2021 9:38:48 GMT -5
Thank you, that helps a lot.
Prayerfully, I will do better.
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Post by Cindy on Oct 28, 2021 10:41:14 GMT -5
I'm sure you'll do fine hon. Are you continuing to feel better each day? I hope so! If you don't want to start that, and would rather have me do it, just let me know. I don't want to take it away from you if you're interested. Also, please know I'm in no hurry to have this done, so take your time!
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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Post by fearnot on Oct 28, 2021 10:53:01 GMT -5
I am feeling better, but am not sure about doing it.
Maybe you could take it over for now.
I could private message you each day, to stay accountable, that I am reading, studying, etc. the Bible.
What do you think?
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Post by Cindy on Oct 29, 2021 10:35:35 GMT -5
No, I want you to do it. I'll do the first one, and then you can take over. I don't understand what you're so scared of concerning it though. It should be really easy. But I'll start it for you now.
God tells us two things that sound like they contradict each other:
“Fathers shall not be put to death for their children, nor children put to death for their fathers; each is to die for his own sin.” (Deuteronomy 24:16) also in Eze 18:19–32 and: “‘The LORD is slow to anger, abounding in love and forgiving sin and rebellion. Yet he does not leave the guilty unpunished; he punishes the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation.’” also in Exodus 20:5 (Numbers 14:18) What are we to understand from these two verses. First, we need to know that these verses are explained to us by God in a number of other verses. He doesn't leave us wondering. Notice that the second verse says "he does not leave the guilty unpunished" and then goes on to say He punishes the children.
Moses had made it clear that children were not punished for the sins of their parents, but children are impacted by our sins. It reminds me of a famous poem: "Children learn what they live". When parents sin, children see and hear the sin, and are very likely to repeat that sin in their own life. (I'll let Barbara show us scriptures that show how sins are repeated in the next generation). Every sin, even what we consider a small sin, is punishable by death. That is the punishment for ALL sin, no matter how big or how small. Let's take this even further though. Let's say that the parents don't believe in God and live a wicked lifestyle. Their children are very likely to mimic their parents lifestyle when they grow up, and by doing so, they teach the same to their children and so on. The same is true if the parents believe in God but tell lies; their children are likely to do the same. The reason God says He punishes the sin up to the 3rd and 4th generation is because that's how long a sin or a sinful lifestyle is likely to affect our children. So when we sin, we're not just affecting ourselves, we're affecting generations that aren't even born yet! That's something to seriously consider when you're young, rather then learning about it after your children are grown.
Finally we can also take this idea out of the home and use it to describe a whole generation of people. Look at what's going on now all over the world. Sin is running rampant everywhere! If God allows this to continue, it will plant wickedness so deeply that it will take at least several generations to reverse - that is IF there can ever be another generation that loves the Lord. (which is doubtful at this time). Think of when God told Israel to kill all the people, including women and children because He was giving them their land. He was giving them their land because they had been living wickedly for 400 years without repenting. that's well over 4 generations! The current children were being taught to live the same way their parents did. Those who died before reaching the age of accountability would get to go to heaven anyway, so killing the children, was actually an act of mercy.
Now you can show how how sins are repeated in the next generation, and how one sin can affect another person in scripture and often cause that other person to sin too; and whatever else you want to show OK?
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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Post by fearnot on Oct 29, 2021 12:21:38 GMT -5
John MacArthur said, (which may be part of the being a little scared).
And I think, this is such an important issue, like you wrote that even seemingly little sins can affect generations, even those who did not see the original sin.
But Pastor MacArthur wrote this:
"In Noah’s case, he became drunk and uncovered himself in the tent. What does that mean? I can only take you where the Bible takes me, folks; I’m not here to speculate.
I will venture to say I read 50 pages of speculation on what that means.
He uncovered himself. And I could give you some very exotic speculation, but the fact of the matter is it’s speculation.
All we know is he lost his sense of shame; he lost his dignity; he lost his sense of decency. Immodesty took over.
And I’m sure he was a modest man as a righteous man. I’m sure he was a decent man. But sin had floated over the waters of the Flood and landed in the new world, and it was in him. And he uncovered himself.
Cassuto, the great Hebrew – the great Jewish Hebrew commentator says, “The Old Testament tempers this sin in guarded language. He got intoxicated and he disgraced himself by taking off his clothes.
Anything else is purely speculation. We don’t need to take the immodesty of Noah and turn it into some act of fornication.”
Which seems to be a slightly different take than Faithlife.
Rather than Ham’s offense could be explained as voyeurism, they saw it as potentially:
". Therefore, Ham’s offense may have been maternal incest and the forcible rape of his mother"
John MacArthur went on to say:
"Here is the record of the inevitable sin, and as I said, the Lord could have chosen from a thousand different sins, but he chooses this one. Drunkenness, and a loss of proper inhibitions. Noah lost his dignity. He lost his decency.
In the stupor of his drunkenness he became immodest, and behaved himself shamefully. Nakedness, exposure, does not elicit noble, pure thoughts from fallen people.
The Old Testament isn't explicit beyond the fact that he just was naked.
The implication is that this was a shameful thing. To so expose himself with others nearby. And since Adam's fall - you remember the first thing that Adam and Eve did when they fell was sew together fig leaves to cover themselves; Genesis 3:7. Civilized people have always worn clothing to safeguard, as much as possible, what is a pure relationship.
Clothes cover shame and protect purity. And that's why we say when people wanna seduce other people, they expose themselves; the more of themselves they expose, the more blatant is the seduction.
But MacArthur also goes on the explain in
Grace to You
about Ham...like:
I wanna tell you something about Ham. Ham was a believer.
But I will leave that, unless you can shed more light on it
and I will work on showing how how sins are repeated in the next generation,
and how one sin can affect another person in scripture
and often cause that other person to sin too.
You pointed out Noah was in his tent, so....
I can't help but think, at the very least, Ham did have a type of voyeurism
which today reminds me of porn.....
which is certainly not respectful, loving, caring, or any good thing.
And yet, much of the world today, is deeply into pornography and worse.
I am still waiting to see if this is okay.
If so I will start tomorrow.
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Post by Cindy on Oct 30, 2021 11:00:50 GMT -5
Both views are possible. Both views are written my men who can be wrong. We can't assume that because we really like one teacher more then others, that he's always going to be right. (I'm not saying that you're doing that, I'm saying that for the sake of others who may read this.) All we can do is read what everyone says and then ask the Lord what the meaning is and go with what He tells us. But we should never force our view on another person because we too could be wrong. I've believed one thing and was sure it was right, only later to have the Lord show me it was wrong. So that's always possible.
As far as Ham being a believer, I haven't thought about it and this isn't really the place to discuss it because it doesn't have anything to do with the subject matter really. A person's sin is going to affect others regardless of whether or not they're a believer.
Anyway, I have no idea what you're talking about when you say you're waiting to see "if this is ok"? If what is ok? It's fine if you want to show a different opinion about something I've said. If you're talking about what to do for this thread, then again I don't understand what you mean. I simply asked you to kind of do what you were doing in the beginning. I said: "Now you can show how how sins are repeated in the next generation, and how one sin can affect another person in scripture and often cause that other person to sin too; and whatever else you want to show OK?"
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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Post by fearnot on Oct 30, 2021 16:41:34 GMT -5
I agree that either could be correct, I was just saying, I personally could not make a firm judgment one way or the other.
I think MacArthur was saying Ham was a believer and so the curse did not go to him, but his offspring Canaan.
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fearnot
Living With Pain
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Post by fearnot on Oct 30, 2021 17:14:46 GMT -5
How sins are repeated in the next generation,
and how one sin can affect another person in scripture
and often cause that other person to sin too.
It often seems to me, that many people
see sin as exciting, major freedom, legendary, a way to earn a lot of attention,
power, etc.
Sometimes, I have heard young people boast,
about a grandfather that could drink everyone else in a bar,
under the tables and he would be still standing,
as if that was some kind of amazing accomplishment.
They may have never met that grandfather,
but the gossip, and 'fame' has been talked about,
boasted about for years,
at family gatherings.
So it could become almost a challenge to outdo, the 'champion'.
The sins are endless, maybe the parents or grandparents
were con men and swindlers, who made fortunes,
by lying etc. etc.
I do not know for a fact that is what happened to the Canaanites
but it does seem that voyeurism, sexual misconduct, etc.
became a major lifestyle.
God speaks a lot about this in Leviticus 18
starting with verse 3:
3 You shall not do as they do in the land of Egypt,
where you lived, and you shall not do as they do in the land of Canaan,
to which I am bringing you.
and verses 6 thru 23
all have various aspects of God saying not to uncovering
someone's nakedness.
One thing I did read John MacArthur said that:
"if you study the territory of Ham, the territory of Canaan coming from Ham - it included Sodom and Gomorrah"
He also wrote:
"And they by the way, interestingly enough, were the people whose lifestyle was characterized by nakedness".
It is as you said, sin has consequences, and it also grows and grows, and becomes worse and worse with time.
I am going to stop here and see if I am on the right track, of what you had in mind or not.
Done for today.
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Post by Cindy on Nov 1, 2021 9:41:31 GMT -5
What you said is interesting but it's not scripture showing sins that affect others, which is what I asked you to do, and what you were doing originally when you started this thread. In other words originally I just wanted you to show that a person's sins have consequences that affect others and then show how it does with scripture. This is what I wanted you to do, and still want you to do:
Abraham lied about his wife:
“As he was about to enter Egypt, he said to his wife Sarai, “I know what a beautiful woman you are. When the Egyptians see you, they will say, ‘This is his wife.’ Then they will kill me but will let you live. Say you are my sister, so that I will be treated well for your sake and my life will be spared because of you.”” (Genesis 12:11–13)
The consequences of his lie for Pharaoh were pretty heavy:
“But the LORD inflicted serious diseases on Pharaoh and his household because of Abram’s wife Sarai.” (Genesis 12:17)
Then although I'm sure God had also disciplined Abraham for lying, he did it again:
“and there Abraham said of his wife Sarah, “She is my sister.” Then Abimelech king of Gerar sent for Sarah and took her. But God came to Abimelech in a dream one night and said to him, “You are as good as dead because of the woman you have taken; she is a married woman.”” (Genesis 20:2–3)
Finally, as you know, Abraham and Sarah have a child, Isaac. I'm sure he heard about what happened to his parents before he was born, because look at what happens when Isaac is grown up: “So Isaac stayed in Gerar. When the men of that place asked him about his wife, he said, “She is my sister,” because he was afraid to say, “She is my wife.” He thought, “The men of this place might kill me on account of Rebekah, because she is beautiful.”” (Genesis 26:6–7) Sounds familiar doesn't it? What's worse is that this happened right after God had passed the covenant He had with Abraham on to Isaac!
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fearnot
Living With Pain
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Post by fearnot on Nov 1, 2021 9:47:51 GMT -5
Okay, I may understand now,
Thank you for the examples.
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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Post by fearnot on Nov 1, 2021 11:43:05 GMT -5
Going back to the first murderer Cain.
One of his grandsons named Lamech
seems to have heard about Cain being a murderer
and Lamech tells his wives:
23 Lamech said to his wives:
“Adah and Zillah, hear my voice;
you wives of Lamech, listen to what I say:
I have killed a man for wounding me,
a young man for striking me.
24 If Cain's revenge is sevenfold,
then Lamech's is seventy-sevenfold.
Genesis 4:23,24
Sin has consequences and grows.
Like Noah's grandson Canaan
what may have started out as voyeurism, disrespect etc.
ended up in that family line, as a way of life.
Sodom and Gomorrah was part of Canaanites land,
which show how much those sins grew and get worse, and goes further and further downhill.
Do not be deceived:
God is not mocked,
for whatever one sows, that will he also reap.
8 For the one who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption,
but the one who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life
Galatians 6:7,8
and
18 They are darkened in their understanding and separated from the life of God
because of the ignorance that is in them due to the hardening of their hearts.
19 Having lost all sensitivity, they have given themselves over to sensuality so as to indulge in every kind of impurity, and they are full of greed.
Ephesians 4:18,19
Done for today
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Post by Cindy on Nov 2, 2021 8:22:45 GMT -5
![]()  good. How are you feeling? Are you completely over whatever you had?
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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Post by fearnot on Nov 2, 2021 9:31:45 GMT -5
No still very tired, and weak.
We went to church Sunday and it was great, but almost too much too soon.
I feel like I have very very little muscles strength,
but better than we were, but slow coming back.
Thank you for asking.
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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Post by fearnot on Nov 2, 2021 10:06:40 GMT -5
We sometimes think our 'private' sins,
will stay private, and thus will not hurt anyone else,
nor affect anyone else.
But God said this:
23 But if you will not do so,
behold, you have sinned against the Lord,
and be sure your sin will find you out.
Numbers 32:23
I think children study their parents,
way more than we might realize.
They often look up to their parents,
and tend to imitate them.
If parents are open about their sins,
frequently the children will follow in those footsteps.
I could be wrong, but I think there is a lot of fear that goes along with sin.
Sins snares many people,
by promising fun, excitement,
but it hides that it is actually leading you to your death in Hell
( unless you confess it and Jesus pays the price for it, and you repent of it)
People may try to cover up the fear along with the sin.
And yet, children and grandchildren, somehow discover sin's addictive power,
even in the face of fear.
18 There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear.
For fear has to do with punishment,
and whoever fears has not been perfected in love.
1 John 4:18
Sin clings like taking a bath in sewer water, it hardens hearts,
and finds ways into other people.
17 Whoever heeds instruction is on the path to life,
but he who rejects reproof leads others astray
Proverbs 10:17
And
The wisest of women builds her house,
but folly with her own hands tears it down.
Proverbs 14:1
And it is not just family that is affected,
but I think that in some way, if it is a Christian,
our sin will have an impact on our church family
5 so we, though many, are one body in Christ,
and individually members one of another
Romans 12:5
And
When the righteous increase, the people rejoice,
but when the wicked rule, the people groan.
Proverbs 29:2
So if it is just a small family or a nation,
sin grows ever more evil.
Done for today
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Post by Cindy on Nov 3, 2021 12:07:35 GMT -5
All true. I've found too that people tend to try and hide their sins, and the sins of their loved ones too. Sadly, that's exactly what Satan wants them to do, because Satan loves darkness. The harder we try to hide sins, the more power we give Satan and those sins over us. But if we let others know about our sins, then Satan and others can't use them against us. I had to learn that the hard way a long time ago. I believe that's why God wants us to confess our sins to each other as a way of holding each other accountable. We're told: “Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man is powerful and effective.” (James 5:16) Let's say that I lied about something, and I don't tell anyone, but it's bothering my conscience. If I keep telling my conscience to shut up and leave me alone, it will harden my heart and that's the last thing we should want to have happen! But if I go to a godly Christian sister and tell them what I did, and they pray with me that I'll be able to avoid doing it again, then my conscience doesn't bother me anymore and Satan can't use it against me! David discovered how true this was when he sinned with Bathsheba: “When I kept silent, my bones wasted away through my groaning all day long. For day and night your hand was heavy upon me; my strength was sapped as in the heat of summer. Selah Then I acknowledged my sin to you and did not cover up my iniquity. I said, “I will confess my transgressions to the LORD”— and you forgave the guilt of my sin. Selah” (Psalm 32:3–5) When he hid his sin from others (and tried to hide it from God) God disciplined him. But when he finally acknowledged his sin to Nathan (2 Samuel 12) and then prayed and confessed to the Lord asking forgiveness, the Lord forgave him. Then David was able to feel the joy of the Lord again which strengthened him.
This does NOT teach that we need to confess our sins to a priest or minister or any "official". It simply means that we should have a godly person, preferably of the same sex as you are, to talk to and pray with, and hold each other accountable. Someone you can tell your sins and struggles to, and they can share theirs with you. Then you can both pray for each other and encourage each other in the faith. I don't think any friend can be closer to you than that kind of friend!
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I'm praying for you and Leonard and asking my daughter to pray for you as well. I told Bruce about you guys yesterday telling him you all needed a lot of prayer too. Hope you're feeling better soon! 
get better soon! 
good. How are you feeling? Are you completely over whatever you had? 
!!
