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Post by Cindy on Mar 10, 2020 10:02:39 GMT -5
Thank you Cindy.....I wasn't sure but that I missed something, or got something a bit wrong, so that was encouraging! :) You're doing very well on all of it Barbara! We just have to remember that we can't get dogmatic about most of it as our understanding will increase the closer the time gets. But the real understanding most likely won't come until the start of the Tribulation, or perhaps just before. We can be dogmatic about some things, like Israel's part in all of this and God's plan for Israel and His plan for the Church, and things like that. But as far as the individual judgements go, especially as there's more information on the tribulation in the major and minor prophets in the OT, we can just do our best and know that we're most likely going to get some things wrong or mixed up. But it's also true that if we're careful and do our best, then our understanding will help others who come along later to understand it even better. (especially if they're the ones that will be in the Tribulation, as I suspect the next people will be...)
Satan and the 1/3 of the angels that followed him, were cast out of Heaven at the original rebellion, however, the devil still had access to Heaven in order to accuse the believers before God:
[smear:#3fe619]".....for the accuser of our brothers has been thrown down, who accuses them day and night before our God". Revelation 12:10[/smear:#380432:0]
But now things have changed because:
[smear:#192ee6]7 Now war arose in heaven, Michael and his angels fighting against the dragon. And the dragon and his angels fought back, 8 but he was defeated, and there was no longer any place for them in heaven.
Revelation 12:7,8[/smear:#e619a6:0]
Something we may not often think about or realize, is that to this day, Satan spends most of his time still in Heaven, making accusations! The devil means to slander and accuse falsely, which is his nature as a malignant liar. he is a deceiver and enemy of the whole world.
However, the devil is not in Hell, and he is not the king there..... he has not even been there yet, when God does throw him there he will have the worst punishment , and will be the lowest of the low.
So who is Michael? Well Jude tells us he is an 'archangel'
[smear:#25672c]"But when the archangel Michael, contending with the devil, ......" Jude 1:9[/smear:#19e6c4:0] He has also been uniquely associated with Israel ( also called the great prince..... I would add great price of angels, since he is an archangel):
[smear:#a1e619]1 “At that time shall arise Michael, the great prince who has charge of your people. And there shall be a time of trouble, such as never has been since there was a nation till that time. But at that time your people shall be delivered, everyone whose name shall be found written in the book." Daniel 12:1[/smear:#cb46f7:0]
So there has in essence always been a 'war' going on between the angels of Heaven and Satan and his demon horde....but this war will be massive and Satan will lose and be thrown to earth, nevermore to be able to access Heaven.
I suppose one could wonder why did not or does not Jesus or God the Father fight this battle.
To do so would only give the devil some type of honor, that as a created being he does not deserve. God could blink and the devil and his demons would be gone forever!!! The chasm between the Creator and the creature is beyond any comparison!!
Jesus will come and incarcerate Satan for a 1,000 years, ( Satan's 1 st trip to Hell) and after that, it will be the devil's 2nd and final, eternal trip to Hell.
Well done. The only thing I have a problem with is what you did here: "Something we may not often think about or realize, is that to this day, Satan spends most of his time still in Heaven, making accusations!" The reason I'm not sure that's true is because of verses like these: “One day the angels came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came with them. The LORD said to Satan, “Where have you come from?” Satan answered the LORD, “From roaming through the earth and going back and forth in it.”” (Job 1:6–7) That tells me he spends a great deal of time roaming about the earth, finding things to accuse people of, among other things. This one also says he spends a lot of time here: “Be self-controlled and alert. Your enemy the devil prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour.” (1 Peter 5:8)
So others can understand, I'd like to say something about "hell" too. Wiersbe explains that the Antichrist and false prophet are the first persons to be cast into hell. Satan will follow 1,000 years later (Rev. 20:10), to be joined by those whose names are not recorded in the Book of Life (Rev. 20:15). “But the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who had performed the miraculous signs on his behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped his image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur.” (Revelation 19:20) “And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.” (Revelation 20:10) “And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he had done. Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. If anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.” (Revelation 20:12–15) Here's what MacArthur says about this: The lake of fire: The final hell, the place of eternal punishment for all unrepentant rebels, angelic or human. Hades, when it's mentioned, is not hell. It's a holding place for the wicked dead until judgment when they will be sent to hell, that is, "thrown into the the lake of fire". Not a pleasant thought for sure. Death and Hades are essentially synonyms, but death is the condition & Hades, equivalent to the OT Sheol, the place of the dead. Christ decides who lives, who dies, & when. The MacArthur study Bible
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,626
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Post by fearnot on Mar 10, 2020 11:30:33 GMT -5
thanks Cindy.....as usual I think I misunderstood something MacArthur said in a sermon!!! I am thinking that he must have been making the point, that Satan still has access to Heaven in order to accuse believers, and at the same time roam the earth but has not gone to Hell as yet. Something like that.
And I think also this verse:
" for the accuser (Satan) of our brothers has been thrown down, who accuses them day and night before our God."
So I think I got the idea that Satan may roam the world, find all manner of accusations to bring against believers, and then....go daily before Heaven and tattle tale to God.
And he is not going to have access to either ( Heaven or people),
during the 1,000 year reign of Jesus..... so I may have thought he got his first glimpse of Hell, tho it could certainly be a different holding place!!
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,626
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Post by fearnot on Mar 10, 2020 12:22:51 GMT -5
To continue the tribulation from the devil's perspective we read:
[smear:#071320]9 And the great dragon was thrown down, that ancient serpent, who is called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world—he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him. 10 And I heard a loud voice in heaven, saying, “Now the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God and the authority of his Christ have come, for the accuser of our brothers has been thrown down, who accuses them day and night before our God". [/smear:#6f2d0f:0]
As you mention in your reply today, we cannot be dogmatic about certain things, and I think perhaps that might include the exact timing when satan is thrown down from Heaven.
I mentioned in a previous post, that they had been kicked out of Heaven before ( BUT they could go back.....just not stay)
But after this war with God's angles, ( and who can even have a clue what that looks like?) the devil and the fallen angels, are thrown down out of Heaven permanently.... forever!!
Verse nine calls Satan both the great dragon and the ancient serpent..... he is called 'great' because he is formidable and he is also refereed to as the 'serpent' and that, is a direct allusion to him, in the garden of Eden.
He is a deceiver who as duped the world and will continue to do so.
Satan also acts kind of like, a prosecutor, who goes everywhere in the earth, collecting evidence ( goes around seeking whom he may devour,)
I don't know about anyone else, but it is terrifying how much dirt Satan has been able to collect on me!!! It is a ridiculous amount!
But ( even with so much hard cold evidence collected by the devil) if we belong to Jesus we need to remember:
[smear:#19e646]".....If God is for us, who can be against us"? Romans 8:31 [/smear:#e61995:0]
All our horrible sins are covered by the blood of the lamb ( Jesus)
We must not despair, but remember.... we have an advocate, Jesus, our advocate ( who is God the Son), is far greater ( in every way) than the devil ( there is NO comparison)!!
We also need to also remember, the devil is a defeated foe ( we know the end of the story!!)
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Post by Cindy on Mar 11, 2020 11:30:17 GMT -5
thanks Cindy.....as usual I think I misunderstood something MacArthur said in a sermon!!! I am thinking that he must have been making the point, that Satan still has access to Heaven in order to accuse believers, and at the same time roam the earth but has not gone to Hell as yet. Something like that.
And I think also this verse:
" for the accuser (Satan) of our brothers has been thrown down, who accuses them day and night before our God."
So I think I got the idea that Satan may roam the world, find all manner of accusations to bring against believers, and then....go daily before Heaven and tattle tale to God.
And he is not going to have access to either ( Heaven or people),
during the 1,000 year reign of Jesus..... so I may have thought he got his first glimpse of Hell, tho it could certainly be a different holding place!!
Yes, this verse, “Then I heard a loud voice in heaven say: “Now have come the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God, and the authority of his Christ. For the accuser of our brothers, who accuses them before our God day and night, has been hurled down.” (Revelation 12:10) would be easy for some to misunderstand, especially if they weren't aware of what the rest of the Bible says about Satan's doings. In this case, we're looking at praise being given to God, and they're exaggerating some about Satan's accusations because to us, it seems like he's accusing us constantly even though he isn't "before God" constantly the way this verse seems to suggest. I'm afraid I'm not putting this very well.... what I mean is that people are feeling as though Satan's been accusing them and all the saints constantly; it's seemed like a very long, hard, time we've all been through, in particularly due to Satan, and to the saints that have made it through the Tribulation. So the person praising God is letting the others know that Satan's time is finally up. The Millennial Kingdom will begin (that's the salvation part too, as he's not only talking about the salvation of our souls but also salvation from the mental and physical torture the AntiChrist has ordered to be done to the saints.)
It's a kind of strange verse to us, because we're still bound by time. But this verse is out of time, just as God is. God is looking at the end when all has been set right, and showing it to the person doing the praising. It sure gives me a good feeling though to know that our God is so powerful that He can see the end even before the beginning and anytime in between! The purpose of this verse is to encourage us and help us to persevere. Kind of like this one does too: “say to those with fearful hearts, “Be strong, do not fear; your God will come, he will come with vengeance; with divine retribution he will come to save you.”” (Isaiah 35:4) But the "night and day" part does also let us know that Satan works at night as much as he does in the day time. It lets us know that there is no time that we can let our guard down.
Revelation 12:10 is letting us know too, part of the reason for Satan's extreme anger against God's people. He's angry because God threw him out of heaven. So of course he intends to take it out on God's people. “Therefore rejoice, you heavens and you who dwell in them! But woe to the earth and the sea, because the devil has gone down to you! He is filled with fury, because he knows that his time is short.”” (Revelation 12:12) He will of course hide the extent of his anger from people however and won't allow them to know how angry he is. Instead he will pretend to care about them and want peace etc. Then in the middle of the Trib he will unleash his anger unchecked. No wonder the angel kept saying "woe'! Thankfully he will be locked up for the length of the Millennial Kingdom (1000 years), and at the end of it released long enough to lead millions astray once again, which God will end with fire, and Satan will be thrown into the lake of fire for eternity.
I know, isn't it strange how confusing the whole issue of Hell is? I think it's confusing because of how the unbelievers have made people believe that when a "bad" person dies they go to hell immediately, so when we read the Bible, we tend to interpret it that way, even when it doesn't really work with the verse we're reading. What really didn't help though was how some versions, including the NIV translated the word hades as "hell", which really confuses the issue! Anyway, basically when someone who isn't saved dies, they go to what we would think of as a holding place. MacArthur says that “Hades” always refers to the place of the wicked prior to final judgment in hell. So the unsaved go to Hades when they die, where they await the final judgement which happens at the end of the Millennial Kingdom. Once they've been judged they are sent to Hell which is the Lake of burning fire. (Revelation 20:11-15) The other thing to keep in mind about them "waiting" for their judgment, is again that God isn't bound by time and there apparently is no time in heaven.
To continue the tribulation from the devil's perspective we read:
[smear:#071320]9 And the great dragon was thrown down, that ancient serpent, who is called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world—he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him. 10 And I heard a loud voice in heaven, saying, “Now the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God and the authority of his Christ have come, for the accuser of our brothers has been thrown down, who accuses them day and night before our God". [/smear:#6f2d0f:0]
As you mention in your reply today, we cannot be dogmatic about certain things, and I think perhaps that might include the exact timing when satan is thrown down from Heaven.
I mentioned in a previous post, that they had been kicked out of Heaven before ( BUT they could go back.....just not stay)
But after this war with God's angles, ( and who can even have a clue what that looks like?) the devil and the fallen angels, are thrown down out of Heaven permanently.... forever!!
Verse nine calls Satan both the great dragon and the ancient serpent..... he is called 'great' because he is formidable and he is also refereed to as the 'serpent' and that, is a direct allusion to him, in the garden of Eden.
He is a deceiver who as duped the world and will continue to do so.
Satan also acts kind of like, a prosecutor, who goes everywhere in the earth, collecting evidence ( goes around seeking whom he may devour,)
I don't know about anyone else, but it is terrifying how much dirt Satan has been able to collect on me!!! It is a ridiculous amount!
But ( even with so much hard cold evidence collected by the devil) if we belong to Jesus we need to remember:
[smear:#19e646]".....If God is for us, who can be against us"? Romans 8:31 [/smear:#e61995:0]
All our horrible sins are covered by the blood of the lamb ( Jesus)
We must not despair, but remember.... we have an advocate, Jesus, our advocate ( who is God the Son), is far greater ( in every way) than the devil ( there is NO comparison)!!
We also need to also remember, the devil is a defeated foe ( we know the end of the story!!)
Praise God! Well said!
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Post by Cindy on Mar 11, 2020 11:34:55 GMT -5
I hope you don't mind me talking about it too...I just enjoy discussing it is all....
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,626
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Post by fearnot on Mar 11, 2020 13:15:28 GMT -5
We know Satan accuses us and if we are believers, Jesus is our advocate ( and Savior), but for those who do not believe the only outcome is 'woe' Revelation puts it this way:
[smear:#5d2259]11 And they have conquered him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, for they loved not their lives even unto death. 12 Therefore, rejoice, O heavens and you who dwell in them! But woe to you, O earth and sea, for the devil has come down to you in great wrath, because he knows that his time is short!”[/smear:#1e7e44:0]
The redeemed overcame the devil by the blood and work on the Cross by Jesus ( God the Son). Of course Satan can continue to accuse believers because they still do sin, but Jesus paid for ALL of the believers sins, past, present and future.
However, in this verse 11, it seems to refer to, the many that came out of the Tribulation, and who were martyred for their faith.
But notice they conquered, they overcame, they won. We might think we could never overcome so great a foe, and by ourselves we could not, but with God/Jesus/ the Holy Spirit:
[smear:#034d25]13 "I can do all things through him who strengthens me". Philippians 4:13[/smear:#9b19e6:0]
They won but not by anything they did, but by the blood of Jesus.
Therefore we can rejoice!!!
I can imagine the angels and saints are soooo glad Satan and his fallen angels are gone for good and forever from Heaven!!!
The other side of that coin tho is Woe to the earth because now they don't even go back for any time to heaven but are cast down to earth....and Satan is very angry!! he has been permanently cast out of Heaven and.... his time is short
his rage is so intense that: [smear:#412f93] 19 "For in those days there will be such tribulation as has not been from the beginning of the creation that God created until now, and never will be. 20 And if the Lord had not cut short the days, no human being would be saved. But for the sake of the elect, whom he chose, he shortened the days". Mark 13:19,20[/smear:#a12212:0]
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,626
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Post by fearnot on Mar 11, 2020 13:24:52 GMT -5
Mind!!!! Mind you talking also LOL Oh right, yes indeed..... OK not at all, I am sooooooo glad you do!
I really liked this that you wrote:
"But the "night and day" part does also let us know that Satan works at night as much as he does in the day time.
It lets us know that there is no time that we can let our guard down".
That is such a good point, because it seems if any time one might let their guard down, its a night, when they are tired, and perhaps figure its 'their' time to rest, relax, let their guard down...a 'little' but that is all Satan or demons need....just a wee little.
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Post by Cindy on Mar 12, 2020 10:41:08 GMT -5
We know Satan accuses us and if we are believers, Jesus is our advocate ( and Savior), but for those who do not believe the only outcome is 'woe' Revelation puts it this way:
[smear:#5d2259]11 And they have conquered him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, for they loved not their lives even unto death. 12 Therefore, rejoice, O heavens and you who dwell in them! But woe to you, O earth and sea, for the devil has come down to you in great wrath, because he knows that his time is short!”[/smear:#1e7e44:0]
The redeemed overcame the devil by the blood and work on the Cross by Jesus ( God the Son). Of course Satan can continue to accuse believers because they still do sin, but Jesus paid for ALL of the believers sins, past, present and future.
However, in this verse 11, it seems to refer to, the many that came out of the Tribulation, and who were martyred for their faith.
But notice they conquered, they overcame, they won. We might think we could never overcome so great a foe, and by ourselves we could not, but with God/Jesus/ the Holy Spirit:
[smear:#034d25]13 "I can do all things through him who strengthens me". Philippians 4:13[/smear:#9b19e6:0]
They won but not by anything they did, but by the blood of Jesus.
Therefore we can rejoice!!!
I can imagine the angels and saints are soooo glad Satan and his fallen angels are gone for good and forever from Heaven!!!
The other side of that coin tho is Woe to the earth because now they don't even go back for any time to heaven but are cast down to earth....and Satan is very angry!! he has been permanently cast out of Heaven and.... his time is short
his rage is so intense that: [smear:#412f93] 19 "For in those days there will be such tribulation as has not been from the beginning of the creation that God created until now, and never will be. 20 And if the Lord had not cut short the days, no human being would be saved. But for the sake of the elect, whom he chose, he shortened the days". Mark 13:19,20[/smear:#a12212:0]
What you said about this verse made me think of something too: “They overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony; they did not love their lives so much as to shrink from death.” (Revelation 12:11) Although this is speaking of something that to us will happen in the future, it's written in the past tense. It's already happened! That's really amazing when you stop and mediate on it. God isn't bound by time. Only here on this earth does time exist. So all of this has really already happened. Plus, it isn't just the tribulation saints that overcome by the blood of the Lamb; we do as well.
Unbelievers go to psychics who look in crystal balls, or look at cards or other things to try and tell the future. They either say things that are so general that they could be true for anyone at any time, or they're often very wrong. But our God has already seen the future happen. He has seen us in our white robes, washed clean by the blood of the Lamb, attending the wedding supper. He has seen our "righteous acts", and He has watched us as we rode our horses behind our Savior going back to the earth to watch Him bring His final salvation to the Jews. And the Father watched as our Lord presented us along with the whole Church, perfect - without any stain, blemish, or spot of sin; but holy and blameless before Him. I could continue to list all that our Father and the Lord Jesus and the Holy Spirit have already seen, and probably will in my own mind later as I reflect on this; but for this purpose, I know I've made my point!
“For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again.” (Matthew 24:21) “because those will be days of distress unequaled from the beginning, when God created the world, until now—and never to be equaled again.” (Mark 13:19) I'd really like to talk about this verse, but I don't want to say anything yet as I don't know if you plan to do so or not. But this verse has always intrigued me!
Mind!!!! Mind you talking also LOL Oh right, yes indeed..... OK not at all, I am sooooooo glad you do!
I really liked this that you wrote:
"But the "night and day" part does also let us know that Satan works at night as much as he does in the day time.
It lets us know that there is no time that we can let our guard down".
That is such a good point, because it seems if any time one might let their guard down, its a night, when they are tired, and perhaps figure its 'their' time to rest, relax, let their guard down...a 'little' but that is all Satan or demons need....just a wee little.
Thanks so much Barbara! You're such a blessing to me!
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,626
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Post by fearnot on Mar 12, 2020 12:20:33 GMT -5
Oh-oh when you say:
" I'd really like to talk about this verse, but I don't want to say anything yet as I don't know if you plan to do so or not. "
I always freeze a little because although, I 'think' 80% of the time, I 'might' say something ok about whatever verse....
I also wonder, if I might not 'miss' the important part, or the 'interesting' part etc.
And so ( tee-hee) I would rather hear what you have to say about:
“For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again.” (Matthew 24:21) “because those will be days of distress unequaled from the beginning, when God created the world, until now—and never to be equaled again.” (Mark 13:19)
But I was intrigued when you pointed out, that from God's perspective, He has already seen the future happen.
That is basically impossible for me to get my mind wrapped around.
But what is funny or slightly odd, about you saying that, is I just read an article
( I had already heard this 'scientific' speculation years before)..
that the universe might be a 'hologram'
You might wonder why was I reading that??
well, because, I am doing a series of paintings of galaxies because they speak so amazingly of God's glory....
and as I was looking at images of ....
sooooo many
awesome and beautiful galaxy images.....
there, stuck in the images, was a link to this article
and I thought....oh are some scientists still thinking this...how strange and well, there you go...I went to skim thru it....
But in a way, it struck me, since time does not really exist to God... who created time but is outside of it
so why then, cannot scientists, who muse we live in a hologram, not grasp the truths about God?
If they can think about the universe being a hologram ( and I suppose this is one way to state that: In the beginning God created the Heavens.... is not true ( unless they think God created in as a hologram)
But to have a mind like that
Why can they not grasp the truth of there being a Creator God ...outside of time?
And who do they think ( not that it is true) but who would have made the 'hologram'? Surely it did not make itself!! Oh wait, they do believe everything came from nothing, and then life also made it self, and then eventually made our brains, created consciousness etc etc.
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fearnot
Living With Pain
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Post by fearnot on Mar 12, 2020 12:46:36 GMT -5
As I mentioned yesterday, Satan will be beyond furious and rage from being thrown out of Heaven I keep going back to how deadly pride is. I know I have suffered from it, with no reason to at all. But this was for a time the ultimate angel, the most beautiful of all the angels, brilliant mind, talented, near to the throne of God..... and proud!!!
I suspect, the devil never could nor ever will, understand, why does God give us puny humans any concern, interest, thought, etc etc, and worst of all, how could God 'love' us??!!!
So now that he has been cast out of Heaven forever!!!!! He intends to get 'pay back' big time!!!!
[smear:#2c7611]13 "And when the dragon saw that he had been thrown down to the earth, he pursued the woman who had given birth to the male child. 14 But the woman was given the two wings of the great eagle so that she might fly from the serpent into the wilderness, to the place where she is to be nourished for a time, and times, and half a time". Revelation 12:13,14[/smear:#e63019:0]
So as I mentioned before, the 'woman' is Israel. Israel ( the Jews) have suffered greatly throughout history,...some of it at God's hand and others by various nations ( Egypt, Germany etc.)....but also by Satan.( the dragon, the serpent).
But worse is yet to come:
[smear:#3e1b51]"Alas! That day is so great there is none like it; it is a time of distress for Jacob; yet he shall be saved out of it". Jeremiah 30:7[/smear:#19e662:0]
But note, it also says "...he shall be saved out of it"
The holocaust was sooo terrible, it was beyond belief, and yet, now even worse is coming. Satan rage, God's judgments, hordes of demons, and humans filled with hate. Nevertheless there are still 2 angels flying proclaiming the gospel, 2 witnesses, and the 144,000 so Jews and Gentiles will still be saved.
[smear:#e6197b]“ And there shall be a time of trouble, such as never has been since there was a nation till that time. But at that time your people shall be delivered...." Daniel 12:1[/smear:#294757:0]
it seems like, tho the judgments have been on all people all over the earth, at this mid point, a great deal of it focuses on Israel, by Satan. The devil is going to chase and hunt them down in fact, Jesus told them to flee:
[smear:#081e37]“15 So when you see the abomination of desolation spoken of by the prophet Daniel, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand), 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains". matthew 24:15,16[/smear:#a6e619:0]
However, those Jews fleeing for their lives are also going to get help, supernatural assistance. God has done this before, like when they were fleeing from Pharaoh, during the Exodus.
[smear:#19e63d]4 ‘You yourselves have seen what I did to the Egyptians, and how I bore you on eagles' wings and brought you to myself. Exodus 19:4[/smear:#a319e6:0]
Not only that but she will also be feed.
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fearnot
Living With Pain
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Post by fearnot on Mar 13, 2020 10:46:38 GMT -5
Now we come to the last 3 verses in chapter 12
[smear:#e68719]15 The serpent poured water like a river out of his mouth after the woman, to sweep her away with a flood. 16 But the earth came to the help of the woman, and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed the river that the dragon had poured from his mouth. 17 Then the dragon became furious with the woman and went off to make war on the rest of her offspring, on those who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus. And he stood on the sand of the sea". Revelation 12:15-17[/smear:#19e682:0]
A river flooding pictures disaster, drowning, power, surging, etc. and this could be a word picture of an army of overwhelming military force of the devil. ( men and demons perhaps)
For example:
[smear:#e6b019]"Egypt rises like the Nile, like rivers whose waters surge". Jeremiah 46:8[/smear:#19e61d:0]
[smear:#19e666]"Therefore, behold, the Lord is bringing up against them the waters of the River] mighty and many, the king of Assyria and all his glory". Isaiah 8:7[/smear:#3019e6:0] [smear:#584891] 1 "If it had not been the Lord who was on our side— let Israel now say— 2 if it had not been the Lord who was on our side when people rose up against us, 3 then they would have swallowed us up alive, when their anger was kindled against us; 4 then the flood would have swept us away, the torrent would have gone over us; 5 then over us would have gone the raging waters". Psalms 124:1-5[/smear:#044909:0]
However, this does not work!!! Instead: But the earth helped the woman, by opening its mouth and swallowing the river that the dragon had poured from his mouth.
This reminds us of what happened to Pharaoh's army:
[smear:#567d0a]"You stretched out your right hand; the earth swallowed them". Exodus 15:12[/smear:#e619be:0]
And also Korah and his household:
[smear:#24824b]9......"who contended against Moses and Aaron in the company of Korah, when they contended against the Lord 10 and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed them up together with Korah, when that company died, when the fire devoured 250 men, and they became a warning." Numbers" 26:9,10[/smear:#e6d419:0]
But it seems not all of the Jews went to the place of God's protection and since he could not get those that are protected, he goes after the others.
But the dragon, Satan fights a battle he can never ever win.
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Post by Cindy on Mar 13, 2020 11:34:21 GMT -5
Oh-oh when you say:
" I'd really like to talk about this verse, but I don't want to say anything yet as I don't know if you plan to do so or not. "
I always freeze a little because although, I 'think' 80% of the time, I 'might' say something ok about whatever verse....
I also wonder, if I might not 'miss' the important part, or the 'interesting' part etc.
And so ( tee-hee) I would rather hear what you have to say about:
“For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again.” (Matthew 24:21) “because those will be days of distress unequaled from the beginning, when God created the world, until now—and never to be equaled again.” (Mark 13:19)
But I was intrigued when you pointed out, that from God's perspective, He has already seen the future happen.
That is basically impossible for me to get my mind wrapped around.
But what is funny or slightly odd, about you saying that, is I just read an article
( I had already heard this 'scientific' speculation years before)..
that the universe might be a 'hologram'
You might wonder why was I reading that??
well, because, I am doing a series of paintings of galaxies because they speak so amazingly of God's glory....
and as I was looking at images of ....
sooooo many
awesome and beautiful galaxy images.....
there, stuck in the images, was a link to this article
and I thought....oh are some scientists still thinking this...how strange and well, there you go...I went to skim thru it....
But in a way, it struck me, since time does not really exist to God... who created time but is outside of it
so why then, cannot scientists, who muse we live in a hologram, not grasp the truths about God?
If they can think about the universe being a hologram ( and I suppose this is one way to state that: In the beginning God created the Heavens.... is not true ( unless they think God created in as a hologram)
But to have a mind like that
Why can they not grasp the truth of there being a Creator God ...outside of time?
And who do they think ( not that it is true) but who would have made the 'hologram'? Surely it did not make itself!! Oh wait, they do believe everything came from nothing, and then life also made it self, and then eventually made our brains, created consciousness etc etc. Please don't let yourself get nervous about something when I say I'd like to talk about it. It's not a test, or a trick question, or anything like that. Just something I find interesting...that's all. And because I wasn't paying attention, I didn't quote the whole passage that I wanted to about this:“For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again. If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened.” (Matthew 24:21–22) “because those will be days of distress unequaled from the beginning, when God created the world, until now—and never to be equaled again. If the Lord had not cut short those days, no one would survive. But for the sake of the elect, whom he has chosen, he has shortened them.” (Mark 13:19–20) There's quite a lot of different ideas about what the Lord means when He tells us that He has shortened those days. Some people think that the 7 years will be cut short, others think that God cut it short by making the first 3 and a half years not as horrific as the last half will be. Others think that the 7 years would have been even longer but God cut it back to 7 years. Other ideas might be that the days themselves won't last for 24 hours during the last part of the Tribulation. As I said, if you can think of it, it's probably been suggested concerning what the meaning of that verse is. All we can say for sure is that this is concerning the last half of the Tribulation after the Antichrist defiles the Temple in Jerusalem.
Personally I think if the last part of the Trib had lasted any longer then 3 and a half years, there wouldn't have been any survivors at all. The earth itself will be almost uninhabitable by the end of the Tribulation, thanks to the AntiChrist and his demons and servants. So the Lord chooses to end it before he kills off everyone. He does that with His Second Coming.
Here's what MacArthur says about this: those days had been cut short. If the afflictions of this time were to continue, “no life would have been saved,” i.e., no one would survive. But “for the sake of the elect” (so that redeemed people do not suffer more than they can bear) the time is “cut short”—i.e., held short of total destruction. Both Dan 7:25 & Rev 12:14 (see notes there) suggest that the actual length of time the Beast will be permitted to terrorize the world is fixed at 3½ years.
As I mentioned yesterday, Satan will be beyond furious and rage from being thrown out of Heaven I keep going back to how deadly pride is. I know I have suffered from it, with no reason to at all. But this was for a time the ultimate angel, the most beautiful of all the angels, brilliant mind, talented, near to the throne of God..... and proud!!!
I suspect, the devil never could nor ever will, understand, why does God give us puny humans any concern, interest, thought, etc etc, and worst of all, how could God 'love' us??!!!
So now that he has been cast out of Heaven forever!!!!! He intends to get 'pay back' big time!!!!
[smear:#2c7611]13 "And when the dragon saw that he had been thrown down to the earth, he pursued the woman who had given birth to the male child. 14 But the woman was given the two wings of the great eagle so that she might fly from the serpent into the wilderness, to the place where she is to be nourished for a time, and times, and half a time". Revelation 12:13,14[/smear:#e63019:0]
So as I mentioned before, the 'woman' is Israel. Israel ( the Jews) have suffered greatly throughout history,...some of it at God's hand and others by various nations ( Egypt, Germany etc.)....but also by Satan.( the dragon, the serpent).
But worse is yet to come:
[smear:#3e1b51]"Alas! That day is so great there is none like it; it is a time of distress for Jacob; yet he shall be saved out of it". Jeremiah 30:7[/smear:#19e662:0]
But note, it also says "...he shall be saved out of it"
The holocaust was sooo terrible, it was beyond belief, and yet, now even worse is coming. Satan rage, God's judgments, hordes of demons, and humans filled with hate. Nevertheless there are still 2 angels flying proclaiming the gospel, 2 witnesses, and the 144,000 so Jews and Gentiles will still be saved.
[smear:#e6197b]“ And there shall be a time of trouble, such as never has been since there was a nation till that time. But at that time your people shall be delivered...." Daniel 12:1[/smear:#294757:0]
it seems like, tho the judgments have been on all people all over the earth, at this mid point, a great deal of it focuses on Israel, by Satan. The devil is going to chase and hunt them down in fact, Jesus told them to flee:
[smear:#081e37]“15 So when you see the abomination of desolation spoken of by the prophet Daniel, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand), 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains". matthew 24:15,16[/smear:#a6e619:0]
However, those Jews fleeing for their lives are also going to get help, supernatural assistance. God has done this before, like when they were fleeing from Pharaoh, during the Exodus.
[smear:#19e63d]4 ‘You yourselves have seen what I did to the Egyptians, and how I bore you on eagles' wings and brought you to myself. Exodus 19:4[/smear:#a319e6:0]
Not only that but she will also be feed.
Good job!
Now we come to the last 3 verses in chapter 12
[smear:#e68719]15 The serpent poured water like a river out of his mouth after the woman, to sweep her away with a flood. 16 But the earth came to the help of the woman, and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed the river that the dragon had poured from his mouth. 17 Then the dragon became furious with the woman and went off to make war on the rest of her offspring, on those who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus. And he stood on the sand of the sea". Revelation 12:15-17[/smear:#19e682:0]
A river flooding pictures disaster, drowning, power, surging, etc. and this could be a word picture of an army of overwhelming military force of the devil.
For example:
[smear:#e6b019]"Egypt rises like the Nile, like rivers whose waters surge". Jeremiah 46:8[/smear:#19e61d:0]
[smear:#19e666]"Therefore, behold, the Lord is bringing up against them the waters of the River] mighty and many, the king of Assyria and all his glory". Isaiah 8:7[/smear:#3019e6:0]
Good! Notice that they're saved from this war supernaturally by God. That's pretty cool! It's possible that an earthquake will come to their rescue and kill the invading army.
Notice too who the people are who belong to God.... they aren't the ones who said a sinners prayer and called it good. They're the ones who obey His Word, and to obey His Word, you first have to know it!
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,626
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Post by fearnot on Mar 13, 2020 11:43:07 GMT -5
I had not quite finished on today's scripture before you posted so it went above your posts....I figued you would never see it thinking what you commented on was complete haha
so here is the completed version LOL ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Now we come to the last 3 verses in chapter 12
[smear:#e68719]15 The serpent poured water like a river out of his mouth after the woman, to sweep her away with a flood. 16 But the earth came to the help of the woman, and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed the river that the dragon had poured from his mouth. 17 Then the dragon became furious with the woman and went off to make war on the rest of her offspring, on those who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus. And he stood on the sand of the sea". Revelation 12:15-17[/smear:#19e682:0]
A river flooding pictures disaster, drowning, power, surging, etc. and this could be a word picture of an army of overwhelming military force of the devil. ( men and demons perhaps)
For example:
[smear:#e6b019]"Egypt rises like the Nile, like rivers whose waters surge". Jeremiah 46:8[/smear:#19e61d:0]
[smear:#19e666]"Therefore, behold, the Lord is bringing up against them the waters of the River] mighty and many, the king of Assyria and all his glory". Isaiah 8:7[/smear:#3019e6:0] [smear:#584891] 1 "If it had not been the Lord who was on our side— let Israel now say— 2 if it had not been the Lord who was on our side when people rose up against us, 3 then they would have swallowed us up alive, when their anger was kindled against us; 4 then the flood would have swept us away, the torrent would have gone over us; 5 then over us would have gone the raging waters". Psalms 124:1-5[/smear:#044909:0]
However, this does not work!!! Instead: But the earth helped the woman, by opening its mouth and swallowing the river that the dragon had poured from his mouth.
This reminds us of what happened to Pharaoh's army:
[smear:#567d0a]"You stretched out your right hand; the earth swallowed them". Exodus 15:12[/smear:#e619be:0]
And also Korah and his household:
[smear:#24824b]9......"who contended against Moses and Aaron in the company of Korah, when they contended against the Lord 10 and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed them up together with Korah, when that company died, when the fire devoured 250 men, and they became a warning." Numbers" 26:9,10[/smear:#e6d419:0]
But it seems not all of the Jews went to the place of God's protection and since he could not get those that are protected, he goes after the others.
But the dragon, Satan fights a battle he can never ever win.
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,626
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Post by fearnot on Mar 14, 2020 12:44:06 GMT -5
Now we are looking at the thirteenth chapter of Revelation
[smear:#e64619]1 "And I saw a beast rising out of the sea, with ten horns and seven heads, with ten diadems on its horns and blasphemous names on its heads". Revelation 13:1[/smear:#1ae619:0]
This reminds me a little of how Jesus only spoke in parables ( after awhile) so that those who were His would 'get it' and others not. In a way, what we read now sort of reminded me of that, because we are going to have to dig a bit deeper into the the Word of God.... or throw up our hands and say: its too hard, only some great scholar cloistered away might figure out what this can mean etc.
So it would be good for us to remember, this book in particular has a beautiful promise for those who read God's word:
[smear:#3a7606]3 "Blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear, and who keep what is written in it, for the time is near". Revelation 1:3[/smear:#e61943:0]
But here is a spoiler alert....this is about the anti-Christ and the false prophet.
We know the anti-Christ is coming.....
[smear:#19e677]18 "Children, it is the last hour, and as you have heard that antichrist is coming, so now many antichrists have come. Therefore we know that it is the last hour". I John 2:18[/smear:#d419e6:0]
So one might ask, where did they hear about anti-Christs before? Well, Daniel speaks about beasts rising out of the sea:
[smear:#82214e]2 "Daniel declared, “I saw in my vision by night, and behold, the four winds of heaven were stirring up the great sea. 3 And four great beasts came up out of the sea, different from one another". Daniel 7:2,3[/smear:#2d8d3f:0]
and then there is this to show he is a man and/or demon possessed or by satan...but that is for later, but this shows it a bit: [smear:#e6193e] 24 "His power shall be great—but not by his own power; and he shall cause fearful destruction and shall succeed in what he does,...."[/smear:#4119e6:1] Daniel 8:24
but its 'like a man, and speaks 'great' things: [smear:#045429] "I considered the horns, and behold, there came up among them another horn, a little one, before which three of the first horns were plucked up by the roots. And behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of a man, and a mouth speaking great things". Daniel 7:8[/smear:#e64919:0]
speaking, 'great things', points to his being a intellectual genius, a great and a powerful orator and a counterfeit Christ.
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,626
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Post by fearnot on Mar 15, 2020 10:03:35 GMT -5
I got as far as the 'beast yesterday in the first verse of Revelation chapter 13 but did not get to the rest of it:
[smear:#d2e619]1 "And I saw a beast rising out of the sea, with ten horns and seven heads, with ten diadems on its horns and blasphemous names on its heads". Revelations 13:1 [/smear:#5119e6:1]
The horns, head and diadems point to various rulers, kings etc. A diadem is a type of ornamental crown, worn by monarchs. This beast is both a person but also a system ( it kind of indicates to me a one world system, which we know the anti-Christ will bring about).
Horns point to power, force, and strength ( I think military is a major aspect, but political power also, and sadly spiritual too as many will fall under his spell and worship him).
Politically we see 'horns in Daniel:
[smear:#4fe619]"As for the ten horns, out of this kingdom ten kings shall arise", Daniel 7:24[/smear:#e61950:1]
And let's not forget the Satanic and demonic aspect of this beast/monster ( person and system)... 'blasphemous' names..... they shall speak blasphemies against God.
Then we come to verse 2
[smear:#346f51]2 "And the beast that I saw was like a leopard; its feet were like a bear's, and its mouth was like a lion's mouth. And to it the dragon gave his power and his throne and great authority." Revelation 13:2 [/smear:#e519e6:1] These 'animal' symbols represent major nations ( think of the US and her eagle, or Russia and a bear etc......)
but these represent: the lion (Babylon) the bear (Medo-Persia), the leopard (Greece).
The attributes of all these kingdoms are found in this last one world system....some think this final kingdom is final kingdom to be a revived Rome.... I don't think I could say one way or the other, but it most likely will have its attributes included for sure.
It is interesting that Hosea also talks of animals (symbols of nations that will tear Israel, to bring her back to God)
[smear:#19e646]7 "So I am to them like a lion; like a leopard I will lurk beside the way. 8 I will fall upon them like a bear robbed of her cubs";[/smear:#662f70:1]
That the beast obtains his throne and authority from the dragon, shows the close connection between the anti'Christ and Satan ( and at some point the actual possession).
Remember for now Satan holds the title deed to earth ( Adam should have had it, but lost it when he and Eve sinned). Satan offered it back to Jesus.....with just one 'wee, small' ( NOT) string attached:
[smear:#590b20].... “To you I will give all this authority and their glory, for it has been delivered to me, and I give it to whom I will. 7 If you, then, will worship me, it will all be yours.” Luke 4:6,7[/smear:#120b38:0]
Jesus obviously refused this 'deal', but the anti-Christ does not.
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,626
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Post by fearnot on Mar 16, 2020 8:23:50 GMT -5
Onto verse 3 of Revelation 13
I hope I do OK today because I did not sleep even one wink last night ( I have not done that for a long time)
[smear:#19e62d]3 "One of its heads seemed to have a mortal wound, but its mortal wound was healed, and the whole earth marveled as they followed the beast". Revelation 13:3[/smear:#5119e6:0]
Just an aside:
I saw a news headline today suggesting the end of the 'globalists of the world' because the Corina virus is causing many many nations to close their borders
But actually, I am thinking that this virus (or the next or the next) might instead, be a perfect setup for the anti-Christ, because of: worldwide fear, the need for someone ( eventually the anti-Christ) to give people 'hope' in a scary, even a seemingly hopeless situation, to come and solve all the massive problems as a result of the world wide disruptions caused ( kind of like we are seeing right now, and I think it might only get worse....more world wide chaos means a need for a global leader) we will see.....but it does not necessarily mean the end of the global push!!)
In a strange way, this virus, could even kind of create a unity because we are all fighting the same 'enemy' ( I have often thought that is true of climate change also.....the world uniting to save 'mother' earth). Also tolerance....we must compromise and never express one way is THE absolute truth because it would hurt someone else ( but it will hurt them a great deal more to be in Hell for eternity!!)
Back to verse three, this beast is going to receive a mortal wound. I think it could be likely, the anti-Christ is counterfeiting ( tho he may in fact 'die') Jesus death and resurrection...( God may allow the devil to do this 'miracle' this one time) or perhaps it is an elaborate fake, hoax, lie....
[smear:#6fe619]11 "Therefore God sends them a strong delusion, so that they may believe what is false, 12 in order that all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness". 2 Thessalonians 2:11,12[/smear:#6a19e6:0]
nevertheless perhaps this will be when he is possessed by Satan.
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Post by Cindy on Mar 16, 2020 10:52:38 GMT -5
I had not quite finished on today's scripture before you posted so it went above your posts....I figued you would never see it thinking what you commented on was complete haha
so here is the completed version LOL ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Now we come to the last 3 verses in chapter 12
[smear:#e68719]15 The serpent poured water like a river out of his mouth after the woman, to sweep her away with a flood. 16 But the earth came to the help of the woman, and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed the river that the dragon had poured from his mouth. 17 Then the dragon became furious with the woman and went off to make war on the rest of her offspring, on those who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus. And he stood on the sand of the sea". Revelation 12:15-17[/smear:#19e682:0]
A river flooding pictures disaster, drowning, power, surging, etc. and this could be a word picture of an army of overwhelming military force of the devil. ( men and demons perhaps)
For example:
[smear:#e6b019]"Egypt rises like the Nile, like rivers whose waters surge". Jeremiah 46:8[/smear:#19e61d:0]
[smear:#19e666]"Therefore, behold, the Lord is bringing up against them the waters of the River] mighty and many, the king of Assyria and all his glory". Isaiah 8:7[/smear:#3019e6:0] [smear:#584891] 1 "If it had not been the Lord who was on our side— let Israel now say— 2 if it had not been the Lord who was on our side when people rose up against us, 3 then they would have swallowed us up alive, when their anger was kindled against us; 4 then the flood would have swept us away, the torrent would have gone over us; 5 then over us would have gone the raging waters". Psalms 124:1-5[/smear:#044909:0]
However, this does not work!!! Instead: But the earth helped the woman, by opening its mouth and swallowing the river that the dragon had poured from his mouth.
This reminds us of what happened to Pharaoh's army:
[smear:#567d0a]"You stretched out your right hand; the earth swallowed them". Exodus 15:12[/smear:#e619be:0]
And also Korah and his household:
[smear:#24824b]9......"who contended against Moses and Aaron in the company of Korah, when they contended against the Lord 10 and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed them up together with Korah, when that company died, when the fire devoured 250 men, and they became a warning." Numbers" 26:9,10[/smear:#e6d419:0]
But it seems not all of the Jews went to the place of God's protection and since he could not get those that are protected, he goes after the others.
But the dragon, Satan fights a battle he can never ever win.
Good post!
Now we are looking at the thirteenth chapter of Revelation
[smear:#e64619]1 "And I saw a beast rising out of the sea, with ten horns and seven heads, with ten diadems on its horns and blasphemous names on its heads". Revelation 13:1[/smear:#1ae619:0]
This reminds me a little of how Jesus only spoke in parables ( after awhile) so that those who were His would 'get it' and others not. In a way, what we read now sort of reminded me of that, because we are going to have to dig a bit deeper into the the Word of God.... or throw up our hands and say: its too hard, only some great scholar cloistered away might figure out what this can mean etc.
So it would be good for us to remember, this book in particular has a beautiful promise for those who read God's word:
[smear:#3a7606]3 "Blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear, and who keep what is written in it, for the time is near". Revelation 1:3[/smear:#e61943:0]
But here is a spoiler alert....this is about the anti-Christ and the false prophet.
We know the anti-Christ is coming.....
[smear:#19e677]18 "Children, it is the last hour, and as you have heard that antichrist is coming, so now many antichrists have come. Therefore we know that it is the last hour". I John 2:18[/smear:#d419e6:0]
So one might ask, where did they hear about anti-Christs before? Well, Daniel speaks about beasts rising out of the sea:
[smear:#82214e]2 "Daniel declared, “I saw in my vision by night, and behold, the four winds of heaven were stirring up the great sea. 3 And four great beasts came up out of the sea, different from one another". Daniel 7:2,3[/smear:#2d8d3f:0]
and then there is this to show he is a man and/or demon possessed or by satan...but that is for later, but this shows it a bit: [smear:#e6193e] 24 "His power shall be great—but not by his own power; and he shall cause fearful destruction and shall succeed in what he does,...."[/smear:#4119e6:1] Daniel 8:24
but its 'like a man, and speaks 'great' things: [smear:#045429] "I considered the horns, and behold, there came up among them another horn, a little one, before which three of the first horns were plucked up by the roots. And behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of a man, and a mouth speaking great things". Daniel 7:8[/smear:#e64919:0]
speaking, 'great things', points to his being a intellectual genius, a great and a powerful orator and a counterfeit Christ.
I got as far as the 'beast yesterday in the first verse of Revelation chapter 13 but did not get to the rest of it:
[smear:#d2e619]1 "And I saw a beast rising out of the sea, with ten horns and seven heads, with ten diadems on its horns and blasphemous names on its heads". Revelations 13:1 [/smear:#5119e6:1]
The horns, head and diadems point to various rulers, kings etc. A diadem is a type of ornamental crown, worn by monarchs. This beast is both a person but also a system ( it kind of indicates to me a one world system, which we know the anti-Christ will bring about).
Horns point to power, force, and strength ( I think military is a major aspect, but political power also, and sadly spiritual too as many will fall under his spell and worship him).
Politically we see 'horns in Daniel:
[smear:#4fe619]"As for the ten horns, out of this kingdom ten kings shall arise", Daniel 7:24[/smear:#e61950:1]
And let's not forget the Satanic and demonic aspect of this beast/monster ( person and system)... 'blasphemous' names..... they shall speak blasphemies against God.
Then we come to verse 2
[smear:#346f51]2 "And the beast that I saw was like a leopard; its feet were like a bear's, and its mouth was like a lion's mouth. And to it the dragon gave his power and his throne and great authority." Revelation 13:2 [/smear:#e519e6:1] These 'animal' symbols represent major nations ( think of the US and her eagle, or Russia and a bear etc......)
but these represent: the lion (Babylon) the bear (Medo-Persia), the leopard (Greece).
The attributes of all these kingdoms are found in this last one world system....some think this final kingdom is final kingdom to be a revived Rome.... I don't think I could say one way or the other, but it most likely will have its attributes included for sure.
It is interesting that Hosea also talks of animals (symbols of nations that will tear Israel, to bring her back to God)
[smear:#19e646]7 "So I am to them like a lion; like a leopard I will lurk beside the way. 8 I will fall upon them like a bear robbed of her cubs";[/smear:#662f70:1]
That the beast obtains his throne and authority from the dragon, shows the close connection between the anti'Christ and Satan ( and at some point the actual possession).
Remember for now Satan holds the title deed to earth ( Adam should have had it, but lost it when he and Eve sinned). Satan offered it back to Jesus.....with just one 'wee, small' ( NOT) string attached:
[smear:#590b20].... “To you I will give all this authority and their glory, for it has been delivered to me, and I give it to whom I will. 7 If you, then, will worship me, it will all be yours.” Luke 4:6,7[/smear:#120b38:0]
Jesus obviously refused this 'deal', but the anti-Christ does not.
Good start on this part! I was really hoping you'd include Daniel when you got to this and later parts. Because without Daniel, we wouldn't have nearly as good of an understanding as we now do. Really from Daniel 7 on is very important to what's going to happen. Especially Daniel 9 as it tells us the reason for the Tribulation.
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,626
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Post by fearnot on Mar 16, 2020 11:13:46 GMT -5
Again... my yet unfinished post, for today ( I am having trouble staying awake, but also busy posting other things)
so, all in all, I need to re-post what I have done so far and finish it for today
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,626
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Post by fearnot on Mar 16, 2020 11:24:21 GMT -5
Onto verse 3 of Revelation 13
I hope I do OK today because I did not sleep even one wink last night ( I have not done that for a long time)
[smear:#19e62d]3 "One of its heads seemed to have a mortal wound, but its mortal wound was healed, and the whole earth marveled as they followed the beast". Revelation 13:3[/smear:#5119e6:0]
Just an aside:
I saw a news headline today suggesting the end of the 'globalists of the world' because the Corina virus is causing many many nations to close their borders
But actually, I am thinking that this virus (or the next or the next) might instead, be a perfect setup for the anti-Christ, because of: worldwide fear, the need for someone ( eventually the anti-Christ) to give people 'hope' in a scary, even a seemingly hopeless situation, to come and solve all the massive problems as a result of the world wide disruptions caused ( kind of like we are seeing right now, and I think it might only get worse....more world wide chaos means a need for a global leader) we will see.....but it does not necessarily mean the end of the global push!!)
In a strange way, this virus, could even kind of create a unity because we are all fighting the same 'enemy' ( I have often thought that is true of climate change also.....the world uniting to save 'mother' earth). Also tolerance....we must compromise and never express one way is THE absolute truth because it would hurt someone else ( but it will hurt them a great deal more to be in Hell for eternity!!)
Back to verse three, this beast is going to receive a mortal wound. I think it could be likely, the anti-Christ is counterfeiting ( tho he may in fact 'die') Jesus death and resurrection...( God may allow the devil to do this 'miracle' this one time) or perhaps it is an elaborate fake, hoax, lie....
[smear:#6fe619]11 "Therefore God sends them a strong delusion, so that they may believe what is false, 12 in order that all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness". 2 Thessalonians 2:11,12[/smear:#6a19e6:0]
nevertheless perhaps this will be when he is possessed by Satan.
The super sad thing is, that tho most of the world has not believed in the resurrection of Jesus, they will ( be it real or a lie) of the anti-Christ.
[smear:#e6d419]9 "The coming of the lawless one is by the activity of Satan with all power and false signs and wonders, 10 and with all wicked deception for those who are perishing, because they refused to love the truth and so be saved". 2 Thessalonians 2:9,10[/smear:#3419e6:1]
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Post by Cindy on Mar 16, 2020 12:04:35 GMT -5
Onto verse 3 of Revelation 13
I hope I do OK today because I did not sleep even one wink last night ( I have not done that for a long time)
[smear:#19e62d]3 "One of its heads seemed to have a mortal wound, but its mortal wound was healed, and the whole earth marveled as they followed the beast". Revelation 13:3[/smear:#5119e6:0]
Just an aside:
I saw a news headline today suggesting the end of the 'globalists of the world' because the Corina virus is causing many many nations to close their borders
But actually, I am thinking that this virus (or the next or the next) might instead, be a perfect setup for the anti-Christ, because of: worldwide fear, the need for someone to give people 'hope' in a scary, even a seemingly hopeless situation, to come and solve all the massive problems as a result of the world wide disruptions caused ( kind of like we are seeing right now, and I think it might only get worse.... we will see.....but it does not necessarily mean the end of the global push!!)
I totally agree that this fear is the perfect set up for the AntiChrist. I'm sure there'll be other things to cause fear as well. In fact with the chaos that people are causing by their reaction to this virus, they're setting the world up for another great depression, which is also causing fear now and will cause more later if it actually happens. Yep, things are getting crazier and crazier!
I'm sorry you didn't get any sleep hon. I hope you get some soon!
Here's some other scriptures which might go with Rev 13:3 which says: “One of the heads of the beast seemed to have had a fatal wound, but the fatal wound had been healed. The whole world was astonished and followed the beast.” (Revelation 13:3)
“Because of the signs he was given power to do on behalf of the first beast, he deceived the inhabitants of the earth. He ordered them to set up an image in honor of the beast who was wounded by the sword and yet lived.” (Revelation 13:14)
““Woe to the worthless shepherd, who deserts the flock! May the sword strike his arm and his right eye! May his arm be completely withered, his right eye totally blinded!”” (Zechariah 11:17)
“With his own spear you pierced his head when his warriors stormed out to scatter us, gloating as though about to devour the wretched who were in hiding.” (Habakkuk 3:14)
I know there's another one too...I was thinking it's in Psalms, but can't find it at the moment. Have to look later, sorry.
I had not quite finished on today's scripture before you posted so it went above your posts....I figued you would never see it thinking what you commented on was complete haha
so here is the completed version LOL ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Now we come to the last 3 verses in chapter 12
[smear:#e68719]15 The serpent poured water like a river out of his mouth after the woman, to sweep her away with a flood. 16 But the earth came to the help of the woman, and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed the river that the dragon had poured from his mouth. 17 Then the dragon became furious with the woman and went off to make war on the rest of her offspring, on those who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus. And he stood on the sand of the sea". Revelation 12:15-17[/smear:#19e682:0]
A river flooding pictures disaster, drowning, power, surging, etc. and this could be a word picture of an army of overwhelming military force of the devil. ( men and demons perhaps)
For example:
[smear:#e6b019]"Egypt rises like the Nile, like rivers whose waters surge". Jeremiah 46:8[/smear:#19e61d:0]
[smear:#19e666]"Therefore, behold, the Lord is bringing up against them the waters of the River] mighty and many, the king of Assyria and all his glory". Isaiah 8:7[/smear:#3019e6:0] [smear:#584891] 1 "If it had not been the Lord who was on our side— let Israel now say— 2 if it had not been the Lord who was on our side when people rose up against us, 3 then they would have swallowed us up alive, when their anger was kindled against us; 4 then the flood would have swept us away, the torrent would have gone over us; 5 then over us would have gone the raging waters". Psalms 124:1-5[/smear:#044909:0]
However, this does not work!!! Instead: But the earth helped the woman, by opening its mouth and swallowing the river that the dragon had poured from his mouth.
This reminds us of what happened to Pharaoh's army:
[smear:#567d0a]"You stretched out your right hand; the earth swallowed them". Exodus 15:12[/smear:#e619be:0]
And also Korah and his household:
[smear:#24824b]9......"who contended against Moses and Aaron in the company of Korah, when they contended against the Lord 10 and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed them up together with Korah, when that company died, when the fire devoured 250 men, and they became a warning." Numbers" 26:9,10[/smear:#e6d419:0]
But it seems not all of the Jews went to the place of God's protection and since he could not get those that are protected, he goes after the others.
But the dragon, Satan fights a battle he can never ever win.
Good post! Oh I meant to share this scripture with you...could it be about this too? What do you think?
I love how you showed that Psalm 124:4–8 looks like it's about the same thing too!
Now we are looking at the thirteenth chapter of Revelation
[smear:#e64619]1 "And I saw a beast rising out of the sea, with ten horns and seven heads, with ten diadems on its horns and blasphemous names on its heads". Revelation 13:1[/smear:#1ae619:0]
This reminds me a little of how Jesus only spoke in parables ( after awhile) so that those who were His would 'get it' and others not. In a way, what we read now sort of reminded me of that, because we are going to have to dig a bit deeper into the the Word of God.... or throw up our hands and say: its too hard, only some great scholar cloistered away might figure out what this can mean etc.
So it would be good for us to remember, this book in particular has a beautiful promise for those who read God's word:
[smear:#3a7606]3 "Blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear, and who keep what is written in it, for the time is near". Revelation 1:3[/smear:#e61943:0]
But here is a spoiler alert....this is about the anti-Christ and the false prophet.
We know the anti-Christ is coming.....
[smear:#19e677]18 "Children, it is the last hour, and as you have heard that antichrist is coming, so now many antichrists have come. Therefore we know that it is the last hour". I John 2:18[/smear:#d419e6:0]
So one might ask, where did they hear about anti-Christs before? Well, Daniel speaks about beasts rising out of the sea:
[smear:#82214e]2 "Daniel declared, “I saw in my vision by night, and behold, the four winds of heaven were stirring up the great sea. 3 And four great beasts came up out of the sea, different from one another". Daniel 7:2,3[/smear:#2d8d3f:0]
and then there is this to show he is a man and/or demon possessed or by satan...but that is for later, but this shows it a bit: [smear:#e6193e] 24 "His power shall be great—but not by his own power; and he shall cause fearful destruction and shall succeed in what he does,...."[/smear:#4119e6:1] Daniel 8:24
but its 'like a man, and speaks 'great' things: [smear:#045429] "I considered the horns, and behold, there came up among them another horn, a little one, before which three of the first horns were plucked up by the roots. And behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of a man, and a mouth speaking great things". Daniel 7:8[/smear:#e64919:0]
speaking, 'great things', points to his being a intellectual genius, a great and a powerful orator and a counterfeit Christ.
I got as far as the 'beast yesterday in the first verse of Revelation chapter 13 but did not get to the rest of it:
[smear:#d2e619]1 "And I saw a beast rising out of the sea, with ten horns and seven heads, with ten diadems on its horns and blasphemous names on its heads". Revelations 13:1 [/smear:#5119e6:1]
The horns, head and diadems point to various rulers, kings etc. A diadem is a type of ornamental crown, worn by monarchs. This beast is both a person but also a system ( it kind of indicates to me a one world system, which we know the anti-Christ will bring about).
Horns point to power, force, and strength ( I think military is a major aspect, but political power also, and sadly spiritual too as many will fall under his spell and worship him).
Politically we see 'horns in Daniel:
[smear:#4fe619]"As for the ten horns, out of this kingdom ten kings shall arise", Daniel 7:24[/smear:#e61950:1]
And let's not forget the Satanic and demonic aspect of this beast/monster ( person and system)... 'blasphemous' names..... they shall speak blasphemies against God.
Then we come to verse 2
[smear:#346f51]2 "And the beast that I saw was like a leopard; its feet were like a bear's, and its mouth was like a lion's mouth. And to it the dragon gave his power and his throne and great authority." Revelation 13:2 [/smear:#e519e6:1] These 'animal' symbols represent major nations ( think of the US and her eagle, or Russia and a bear etc......)
but these represent: the lion (Babylon) the bear (Medo-Persia), the leopard (Greece).
The attributes of all these kingdoms are found in this last one world system....some think this final kingdom is final kingdom to be a revived Rome.... I don't think I could say one way or the other, but it most likely will have its attributes included for sure.
It is interesting that Hosea also talks of animals (symbols of nations that will tear Israel, to bring her back to God)
[smear:#19e646]7 "So I am to them like a lion; like a leopard I will lurk beside the way. 8 I will fall upon them like a bear robbed of her cubs";[/smear:#662f70:1]
That the beast obtains his throne and authority from the dragon, shows the close connection between the anti'Christ and Satan ( and at some point the actual possession).
Remember for now Satan holds the title deed to earth ( Adam should have had it, but lost it when he and Eve sinned). Satan offered it back to Jesus.....with just one 'wee, small' ( NOT) string attached:
[smear:#590b20].... “To you I will give all this authority and their glory, for it has been delivered to me, and I give it to whom I will. 7 If you, then, will worship me, it will all be yours.” Luke 4:6,7[/smear:#120b38:0]
Jesus obviously refused this 'deal', but the anti-Christ does not.
Good start on this part! I was really hoping you'd include Daniel when you got to this and later parts. Because without Daniel, we wouldn't have nearly as good of an understanding as we now do. Really from Daniel 7 on is very important to what's going to happen. Especially Daniel 9 as it tells us the reason for the Tribulation. Yes, also they could have heard about the antichrist there, but whatever scripture was used, they heard about it from Paul, because he's speaking about what he's told them before.
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Post by Cindy on Mar 17, 2020 10:08:58 GMT -5
Looks like you did it again, and edited your post instead of starting a new one.
Onto verse 3 of Revelation 13
I hope I do OK today because I did not sleep even one wink last night ( I have not done that for a long time)
[smear:#19e62d]3 "One of its heads seemed to have a mortal wound, but its mortal wound was healed, and the whole earth marveled as they followed the beast". Revelation 13:3[/smear:#5119e6:0]
Just an aside:
I saw a news headline today suggesting the end of the 'globalists of the world' because the Corina virus is causing many many nations to close their borders
But actually, I am thinking that this virus (or the next or the next) might instead, be a perfect setup for the anti-Christ, because of: worldwide fear, the need for someone ( eventually the anti-Christ) to give people 'hope' in a scary, even a seemingly hopeless situation, to come and solve all the massive problems as a result of the world wide disruptions caused ( kind of like we are seeing right now, and I think it might only get worse....more world wide chaos means a need for a global leader) we will see.....but it does not necessarily mean the end of the global push!!)
In a strange way, this virus, could even kind of create a unity because we are all fighting the same 'enemy' ( I have often thought that is true of climate change also.....the world uniting to save 'mother' earth). Also tolerance....we must compromise and never express one way is THE absolute truth because it would hurt someone else ( but it will hurt them a great deal more to be in Hell for eternity!!)
Back to verse three, this beast is going to receive a mortal wound. I think it could be likely, the anti-Christ is counterfeiting ( tho he may in fact 'die') Jesus death and resurrection...( God may allow the devil to do this 'miracle' this one time) or perhaps it is an elaborate fake, hoax, lie....
[smear:#6fe619]11 "Therefore God sends them a strong delusion, so that they may believe what is false, 12 in order that all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness". 2 Thessalonians 2:11,12[/smear:#6a19e6:0]
nevertheless perhaps this will be when he is possessed by Satan.
The super sad thing is, that tho most of the world has not believed in the resurrection of Jesus, they will ( be it real or a lie) of the anti-Christ.
[smear:#e6d419]9 "The coming of the lawless one is by the activity of Satan with all power and false signs and wonders, 10 and with all wicked deception for those who are perishing, because they refused to love the truth and so be saved". 2 Thessalonians 2:9,10[/smear:#3419e6:1]
Good. There's been a lot of talk and debate about whether or not Satan can perform miracles. Most say that he can't perform real miracles, but can make it look like he has. In other words using trickery and illusions.
“For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform signs and miracles to deceive the elect—if that were possible.” (Mark 13:22) In this verse, the word "miracles" is also translated as "wonders" in other versions.
“The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with the work of Satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders, and in every sort of evil that deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie” (2 Thessalonians 2:9–11)
See the part I underlined...God sends them a powerful delusion? I think that's why people will believe that the AntiChrist is resurrected from the dead. Not because he really is, but because he somehow fakes his death using trickery etc and in the same way fakes his resurrection. It probably wouldn't cause any to believe he'd died and risen from the dead, except that God Himself sends the delusion to them so they do believe it. So to me the answer is that no, Satan can not do real miracles, but he can imitate them using tricks and illusion. Then God can cause those who haven't loved the Truth to accept his tricks as truth.
Is there some reason you can't start a new post instead of editing one you've already submitted? That way I wouldn't have to always wonder if you're done or not... or even if I think you're not done, then I won't have to wonder if I'm going to reply to you only to come back the next day to discover you added yet more to that post.....
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,626
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Post by fearnot on Mar 17, 2020 11:51:44 GMT -5
Actually what has been happening is:
you see my post and reply to it
BUT........
I am actually still working on it
but then, when I actually post the completed/finished one
you have already replied to 1/2 or 3/4 of it ( not the whole thing)
Thinking.... that is actually all I wrote for the day!
However, I am actually not revising it.... well, not in the normal way you might think.. instead...
What happens is:
when I am actually DONE/completed For the day's post
It goes way up (like its an OLD post)
But because you do not see the 'completed' post ( not edited or revised)
when I re-post it
so that you will see my actual 'completed' post you think
I just only revised it.... but that is NOT what is going on
Because THIS is what is really going on...
when I am working on a post.... I will 'post' it several times
Because I have had toooo many ( in the past) times
when I wrote the whole thing out.... until Iwas done/completed the whole thing for the day
then
I would 'post' it......
But
it got lost
it did not show up in the: (We found a recent draft that you were working on. Would you like to restore it??) Thingy.....
Nooooo .....that does NOT show up the draft is completely gone
no draft at all!!!
Obviously, it does show up 80-90 % of the time
But toooooo many times, the whole thing is gone... no draft whatsoever ( not even going back ( the return arrow etc) will bring it up...... it is GONE no post, NO draft, nothing....., and it is all lost!!
Sooooo these days.... I will write 2 or 3 paragraphs.... Copy it Then.... try posting ( but only that much....just a partial post I am NOT done)
Then I hit edit/revise because I am going back to work on it some more
I just do not want to lose even those 3 measly few paragraphs
Then.....
I will write yet another 3 paragraphs COPY ( just in case, the no draft thing happens)
and now I post.....
6 paragraphs... or whatever number of them
Then hit edit EDIT again.....
and write another 3 paragraphs
and repeat this process until I am actually done!!!!
But also.........
Sometime maybe I have written 6 paragraphs ( or whatever number it varies)
and something happens here, that needs my attention Leonard may need me or the landlord or a neighbor or the kids etc etc etc.
Sooooo I am called away
It may seem I am done for the day
But... in fact I will come back and finish up after having been called away (for as long as several hours, in some cases)
This does not happen all the time but enough to confuse you.
What I am thinking is ( unless you have a better idea, and you usually do :)
like say today which is Tuesday march 17th
Let's say your time is noon you come look TODAY posting by me and you see I have made a post for today.....
But NOOOOOOOOO I have 'most likely'
Only posted PART of it I am most likely STILL working on it
I may have been called away, after working on it for 1/2 an hour but usually will come back in a few hours and finish up
( also sometimes Leonard will say something like:
"if you want to go to -------- ( fill in the blank) We have to go... 'RIGHT NOW' "!!!!
That would be because other things came up for him and that's the only time available
Soooo maybe don't reply to what you think is TODAY's post until the next day???
Like I said, maybe you have a different better solution???
Oh and the other day.....since I did not sleep ( I think it ws the other day...but it has happened like this many times before soooooo you will know)
I think I started writing at 4 ( in the wee night hours) but then could not concentrate waited until 6, or 7 or 8.....until I got my tea and started again
But then.... the Doug came by
and it was the best time to take a shower ( because Leonard took Doug somewhere and we only have one bathroom) sooooo I didn't need to worry if Leonard needed it LOL)
and then after shower I came back for the 3rd time to work on it ( this happens maybe once a week or so...... or something similar)
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,626
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Post by fearnot on Mar 17, 2020 13:49:21 GMT -5
HAHA trying to explain how I confused you ( I am sorry!!) I have already tired myself out so this may be shorter than even usual sigh)
Today I will start with verse 4 and see where it goes from there ( I kept falling asleep trying to write about how I confused you.... so not a good sign).
[smear:#a65708]4 "And they worshiped the dragon, for he had given his authority to the beast, and they worshiped the beast, saying, “Who is like the beast, and who can fight against it?” Revelation 13:4[/smear:#40144b:0]
Worship the beast you might wonder...really? Who would do that well its not new, people have been worshiping demons and Satan right along ( and they still do today) But it will become..... worldwide anti-Christ/Satan worship)
A few examples for the past would be:
[smear:#7d233f]"They sacrificed to demons that were no gods,..." Deuteronomy 32:17[/smear:#165b7b:0] [smear:#5e0559]
37 "They sacrificed their sons and their daughters to the demons; 38 they poured out innocent blood, the blood of their sons and daughters," Psalms 106:37,38[/smear:#19e628:0]
( Frankly, I say: this is done today, in a much much bigger way than way back then!!
But the anti-Christ is going to declare himself and God and demand to be worshiped
4 "who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God".
[smear:#034c19]36 "He shall exalt himself and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak astonishing things against the God of gods." Daniel 11:36[/smear:#3019e6:0]
And eventually this 'worship' will be enforced: Do it or die!! But many will do it willingly.
the anti-Christ is going to pretend to be the world’s Messiah, the world’s Savior, and even pretend to be God .
This is all pretty discouraging, depressing, dark times, why would people choose this.....do they really 'love' their sins so much?
I get that sin at first, can seem exciting, freeing, fun, daring, rebellious, your 'right' and so on....
but how can a person not see, that very quickly, they are not really 'Free', nor having 'fun' etc.
but are actually: a 'slave', in bondage, sad, and sick, in darkness and gloom, hurting and in pain of all kinds, lost, empty, etc.?
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Post by Cindy on Mar 18, 2020 10:22:42 GMT -5
Actually what has been happening is:
you see my post and reply to it
BUT........
I am actually still working on it
but then, when I actually post the completed/finished one
you have already replied to 1/2 or 3/4 of it ( not the whole thing)
Thinking.... that is actually all I wrote for the day!
However, I am actually not revising it.... well, not in the normal way you might think.. instead...
What happens is:
when I am actually DONE/completed For the day's post
It goes way up (like its an OLD post)
But because you do not see the 'completed' post ( not edited or revised)
when I re-post it
so that you will see my actual 'completed' post you think
I just only revised it.... but that is NOT what is going on
Because THIS is what is really going on...
when I am working on a post.... I will 'post' it several times
Because I have had toooo many ( in the past) times
when I wrote the whole thing out.... until Iwas done/completed the whole thing for the day
then
I would 'post' it......
But
it got lost
it did not show up in the: (We found a recent draft that you were working on. Would you like to restore it??) Thingy.....
Nooooo .....that does NOT show up the draft is completely gone
no draft at all!!!
Obviously, it does show up 80-90 % of the time
But toooooo many times, the whole thing is gone... no draft whatsoever ( not even going back ( the return arrow etc) will bring it up...... it is GONE no post, NO draft, nothing....., and it is all lost!!
Sooooo these days.... I will write 2 or 3 paragraphs.... Copy it Then.... try posting ( but only that much....just a partial post I am NOT done)
Then I hit edit/revise because I am going back to work on it some more
I just do not want to lose even those 3 measly few paragraphs
Then.....
I will write yet another 3 paragraphs COPY ( just in case, the no draft thing happens)
and now I post.....
6 paragraphs... or whatever number of them
Then hit edit EDIT again.....
and write another 3 paragraphs
and repeat this process until I am actually done!!!!
But also.........
Sometime maybe I have written 6 paragraphs ( or whatever number it varies)
and something happens here, that needs my attention Leonard may need me or the landlord or a neighbor or the kids etc etc etc.
Sooooo I am called away
It may seem I am done for the day
But... in fact I will come back and finish up after having been called away (for as long as several hours, in some cases)
This does not happen all the time but enough to confuse you.
What I am thinking is ( unless you have a better idea, and you usually do :)
like say today which is Tuesday march 17th
Let's say your time is noon you come look TODAY posting by me and you see I have made a post for today.....
But NOOOOOOOOO I have 'most likely'
Only posted PART of it I am most likely STILL working on it
I may have been called away, after working on it for 1/2 an hour but usually will come back in a few hours and finish up
( also sometimes Leonard will say something like:
"if you want to go to -------- ( fill in the blank) We have to go... 'RIGHT NOW' "!!!!
That would be because other things came up for him and that's the only time available
Soooo maybe don't reply to what you think is TODAY's post until the next day???
Like I said, maybe you have a different better solution???
Oh and the other day.....since I did not sleep ( I think it ws the other day...but it has happened like this many times before soooooo you will know)
I think I started writing at 4 ( in the wee night hours) but then could not concentrate waited until 6, or 7 or 8.....until I got my tea and started again
But then.... the Doug came by
and it was the best time to take a shower ( because Leonard took Doug somewhere and we only have one bathroom) sooooo I didn't need to worry if Leonard needed it LOL)
and then after shower I came back for the 3rd time to work on it ( this happens maybe once a week or so...... or something similar) Ok, then I just won't reply to anything that has the current day's date on it. Your next post says it was written on March 17th, which was yesterday, so I should be able to reply to that with no problems.....
HAHA trying to explain how I confused you ( I am sorry!!) I have already tired myself out so this may be shorter than even usual sigh)
Today I will start with verse 4 and see where it goes from there ( I kept falling asleep trying to write about how I confused you.... so not a good sign).
[smear:#a65708]4 "And they worshiped the dragon, for he had given his authority to the beast, and they worshiped the beast, saying, “Who is like the beast, and who can fight against it?” Revelation 13:4[/smear:#40144b:0]
Worship the beast you might wonder...really? Who would do that well its not new, people have been worshiping demons and Satan right along ( and they still do today) But it will become..... worldwide anti-Christ/Satan worship)
A few examples for the past would be:
[smear:#7d233f]"They sacrificed to demons that were no gods,..." Deuteronomy 32:17[/smear:#165b7b:0] [smear:#5e0559]
37 "They sacrificed their sons and their daughters to the demons; 38 they poured out innocent blood, the blood of their sons and daughters," Psalms 106:37,38[/smear:#19e628:0]
( Frankly, I say: this is done today, in a much much bigger way than way back then!!
But the anti-Christ is going to declare himself and God and demand to be worshiped
4 "who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God".
[smear:#034c19]36 "He shall exalt himself and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak astonishing things against the God of gods." Daniel 11:36[/smear:#3019e6:0]
And eventually this 'worship' will be enforced: Do it or die!! But many will do it willingly.
the anti-Christ is going to pretend to be the world’s Messiah, the world’s Savior, and even pretend to be God .
This is all pretty discouraging, depressing, dark times, why would people choose this.....do they really 'love' their sins so much?
I get that sin at first, can seem exciting, freeing, fun, daring, rebellious, your 'right' and so on....
but how can a person not see, that very quickly, they are not really 'Free', nor having 'fun' etc.
but are actually: a 'slave', in bondage, sad, and sick, in darkness and gloom, hurting and in pain of all kinds, lost, empty, etc.?
Yes the AntiChrist will declare himself God and demand to be worshiped, which many will do willingly. After that he won't even pretend to be "good" or "loving". At that point his real character will be seen, and yet people will still worship him and deny the one True God who gave Himself up to death for them. Unreal, but true. I'm just so thankful that He's saved me and turned me from my sins.
I have a feeling the way things are going with this virus that we may be leaving this earth very soon! I hope everyone is ready. At this point I would encourage people to remind themselves several times throughout each day from now on, that Jesus could call us to meet Him in the air at any moment. That way we'll hopefully begin each day focused on Him and eternity and continue to have that as our focus all day long.
Thankfully, the Lord tells us in His Word exactly how we should be living during this time so there should 't be any confusion:
“The end of all things is near. Therefore be clear minded and self-controlled so that you can pray. Above all, love each other deeply, because love covers over a multitude of sins.” (1 Peter 4:7–8)
“Since everything will be destroyed in this way, what kind of people ought you to be? You ought to live holy and godly lives as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming. That day will bring about the destruction of the heavens by fire, and the elements will melt in the heat. But in keeping with his promise we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, the home of righteousness. So then, dear friends, since you are looking forward to this, make every effort to be found spotless, blameless and at peace with him.” (2 Peter 3:11–14)
“Since, then, you have been raised with Christ, set your hearts on things above, where Christ is seated at the right hand of God. Set your minds on things above, not on earthly things. For you died, and your life is now hidden with Christ in God. When Christ, who is your life, appears, then you also will appear with him in glory. Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry. Because of these, the wrath of God is coming.” (Colossians 3:1–6)
“Therefore, prepare your minds for action; be self-controlled; set your hope fully on the grace to be given you when Jesus Christ is revealed. As obedient children, do not conform to the evil desires you had when you lived in ignorance. But just as he who called you is holy, so be holy in all you do; for it is written: “Be holy, because I am holy.” Since you call on a Father who judges each man’s work impartially, live your lives as strangers here in reverent fear.” (1 Peter 1:13–17)
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,626
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Post by fearnot on Mar 18, 2020 12:42:18 GMT -5
These next verse the anti-Christ shows his true nature: No more Mr. Nice-guy
[smear:#19e638]5 "And the beast was given a mouth uttering haughty and blasphemous words, and it was allowed to exercise authority for forty-two months. 6 It opened its mouth to utter blasphemies against God, blaspheming his name and his dwelling, that is, those who dwell in heaven". Revelation 13:5,6[/smear:#c33611:0]
[smear:#60a30f]I considered the horns, and behold, there came up among them another horn, a little one, before which three of the first horns were plucked up by the roots. And behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of a man, and a mouth speaking great things. Daniel 7:8[/smear:#8919e6:0]
Great things does not mean 'good' things, but rather boastful, arrogant words, and blasphemous things. However, God puts a time limit on how long this will go on......42 months ( 3 1/2 years).
What was Satan's sin...pride. it always make's me cringe that our society is now promoting pride gay pride pride in one's self you can do or be whatever you want so be proud and on and on it goes.
Well Satan's arrogance is unequaled, and a whole world of blasphemers ( minus the believers of course), will agree with him. The anti-Christ ( the beast) has 4 targets for his blasphemy: (1) God; (2) His name; (3) His tabernacle; and 4) those who dwell in heaven.
It's amazing really...we have so much of that in our world today I often hear many many people who it seems like every other word out of their mouth is taking God's name in vain.... they have been well trained in blasphemy!!
But as an aside: none of them would dare use the founder of any other religion!!
I often hear Ray Comfort (when doing street evangelism ) ask people if the use God's name when swearing.... yes they almost always reply then he asks: would you use your mom's name that way? NO!! they reply Why? he asks Because it would be disrespectful......they reply
Well that is the point....it IS disrespectful to your Creator!! And the anti-Christ means it to be as disrespectful as possible during these 3 1/2 years.
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,626
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Post by fearnot on Mar 19, 2020 11:58:15 GMT -5
Today we see more of the true colors of the anti-Christ and his focus of his hatred on the saints.... a worldwide war and slaughter of believers. He shows his true viciousness.
[smear:#e66a19] 7 Also it was allowed to make war on the saints and to conquer them. And authority was given it over every tribe and people and language and nation, 8 and all who dwell on earth will worship it, everyone whose name has not been written before the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slain. Revelation 13:7,8[/smear:#17837b:0]
And he will kill unbelievers as well
Daniel refers to him this way:
[smear:#8e2d85]23 “Thus he said: ‘As for the fourth beast,
there shall be a fourth kingdom on earth, which shall be different from all the kingdoms, and it shall devour the whole earth, and trample it down, and break it to pieces". Daniel 7:23[/smear:#19b8e6:0]
Another thought, the authority given to him, was allowed by God but also, it is a fact, that every marvelous invention of man, can or could be also used to control and force one's will upon others. In any case he will be the undisputed tyrant of all the peoples of earth
And yet ....what? Do the people hate him now? No, they ( the unsaved ).....worship him. But by taking the anti-Christ's mark and worshiping him, seals their fate as lost forever...they have become irredeemable.
They refused to receive the truth, and so be saved.
They are so hardened against God, I have read so many posts elsewhere by the lost. It is not even so much what they say ( meaning their ideas), but the demeaning , angry, scornful, contempt filled words they use,
Polite debating is nowhere in their vocabulary.... there are no statements like : " I respectfully disagree"
But rather, there is vicious hatred ...and this is now, not even in the tribulation. In any case..... their name is not written in the Lamb's book of life
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Post by Cindy on Mar 20, 2020 10:08:06 GMT -5
These next verse the anti-Christ shows his true nature: No more Mr. Nice-guy
[smear:#19e638]5 "And the beast was given a mouth uttering haughty and blasphemous words, and it was allowed to exercise authority for forty-two months. 6 It opened its mouth to utter blasphemies against God, blaspheming his name and his dwelling, that is, those who dwell in heaven". Revelation 13:5,6[/smear:#c33611:0]
[smear:#60a30f]I considered the horns, and behold, there came up among them another horn, a little one, before which three of the first horns were plucked up by the roots. And behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of a man, and a mouth speaking great things. Daniel 7:8[/smear:#8919e6:0]
Great things does not mean 'good' things, but rather boastful, arrogant words, and blasphemous things. However, God puts a time limit on how long this will go on......42 months ( 3 1/2 years).
What was Satan's sin...pride. it always make's me cringe that our society is now promoting pride gay pride pride in one's self you can do or be whatever you want so be proud and on and on it goes.
Well Satan's arrogance is unequaled, and a whole world of blasphemers ( minus the believers of course), will agree with him. The anti-Christ ( the beast) has 4 targets for his blasphemy: (1) God; (2) His name; (3) His tabernacle; and 4) those who dwell in heaven.
It's amazing really...we have so much of that in our world today I often hear many many people who it seems like every other word out of their mouth is taking God's name in vain.... they have been well trained in blasphemy!!
But as an aside: none of them would dare use the founder of any other religion!!
I often hear Ray Comfort (when doing street evangelism ) ask people if the use God's name when swearing.... yes they almost always reply then he asks: would you use your mom's name that way? NO!! they reply Why? he asks Because it would be disrespectful......they reply
Well that is the point....it IS disrespectful to your Creator!! And the anti-Christ means it to be as disrespectful as possible during these 3 1/2 years.
Very good! Yes, the AntiChrist will be full of himself and think he's the greatest. He will try to make the people think he's God but by the second half of the Trib, he will insist that he is God and force people to worship him or die. “He will speak against the Most High and oppress his saints and try to change the set times and the laws. The saints will be handed over to him for a time, times and half a time.” (Daniel 7:25) “He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God.” (2 Thessalonians 2:4)
I like what you said about his sin being pride...pride of self. It's sad, but in many churches people haven't heard for many years what the Bible teaches about the sin of self pride and all that goes with it. It was well known though up till about 1900. That's when Satan got people to begin new careers called psychiatry, psychology, and therapy with the main focus being to teach people the exact opposite of what God teaches us: he got them to teach people to put themselves above others; to put their needs and desires first. Satan started a whole new religion based on that, but gave it the names of psychiatry, psychology, and therapy. Before this time, whenever there was a crisis in a town, a city, a county, or a whole country, it was Pastors who were called to help the people deal with it. But ever since Satan started his campaign to make people think they needed "self esteem" instead of "God esteem", the people took counseling away from the Church and gave it to Satan and his children.
For others who may read this and don't yet know about this, please see the articles in this forum: fresh-hope.com/board/28/psychology-counseling-recovery-programs-alternative
Today we see more of the true colors of the anti-Christ and his focus of his hatred on the saints.... a worldwide war and slaughter of believers. He shows his true viciousness.
[smear:#e66a19] 7 Also it was allowed to make war on the saints and to conquer them. And authority was given it over every tribe and people and language and nation, 8 and all who dwell on earth will worship it, everyone whose name has not been written before the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slain. Revelation 13:7,8[/smear:#17837b:0]
And he will kill unbelievers as well
Daniel refers to him this way:
[smear:#8e2d85]23 “Thus he said: ‘As for the fourth beast,
there shall be a fourth kingdom on earth, which shall be different from all the kingdoms, and it shall devour the whole earth, and trample it down, and break it to pieces". Daniel 7:23[/smear:#19b8e6:0]
Another thought, the authority given to him, was allowed by God but also, it is a fact, that every marvelous invention of man, can or could be also used to control and force one's will upon others. In any case he will be the undisputed tyrant of all the peoples of earth
And yet ....what? Do the people hate him now? No, they ( the unsaved ).....worship him. But by taking the anti-Christ's mark and worshiping him, seals their fate as lost forever...they have become irredeemable.
They refused to receive the truth, and so be saved.
They are so hardened against God, I have read so many posts elsewhere by the lost. It is not even so much what they say ( meaning their ideas), but the demeaning , angry, scornful, contempt filled words they use,
Polite debating is nowhere in their vocabulary.... there are no statements like : " I respectfully disagree"
But rather, there is vicious hatred ...and this is now, not even in the tribulation. In any case..... their name is not written in the Lamb's book of life
Very good! And what you said about polite debating has already begun. Go to any good Christian board online and check out their apologetics forum and you will find some of the nastiest people ever, although they all claim to be Christians! It's very rare to find one that actually acts like Jesus in an apologetics forum, and they tend to take their mean, nasty behavior to other sections of the boards as well. They certainly keep moderators busy. It's a real shame, but in trying to get our apologetics forum to bring glory to Christ the way the rest of the board did, I was attacked in ways I would have thought only Satan would do! I was frequently shocked by what supposed "Christians" said and/or did or tried to do to me. I've even had my life threatened by them! Why? Because I insisted that they could not call each other names or say hateful things to each other. I finally had to ban them all. That didn't stop them from trying their best to hurt me though. That continued for a long time, over a year after that. So if that can happen now, I don't even want to imagine what it will be like during the Tribulation!
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,626
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Post by fearnot on Mar 20, 2020 10:19:08 GMT -5
In the next verses there are words to the wise ( I there are any) with ears to hear ( but choose not to hear), but there will still be believers who are alive who will hear and need to know. These verses tell more about what will happen.
[smear:#e6196c]
9 If anyone has an ear, let him hear:
10 If anyone is to be taken captive, to captivity he goes; if anyone is to be slain with the sword, with the sword must he be slain.
Here is a call for the endurance and faith of the saints. Revelation 13:9,10[/smear:#49e619:0]
Its already set that if you are to be captive, then into captivity you must go, do not fight it.... even execution at the hand of the anti-Christ.
This is stating the trust the tribulation believers must have in God’s sovereignty and of their place in history. If it is their God-ordained role to be a martyr, then so be it, do not fight it.
The time for being a militant Christian is gone ( if there ever was a real time). Their weapons must be 'spiritual' ( prayer, the word of God, love etc.)
And when they ask you, ‘Where shall we go?’ you shall say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord:
[smear:#e67e19]“Those who are for pestilence, to pestilence, and those who are for the sword, to the sword; those who are for famine, to famine, and those who are for captivity, to captivity.’ Jeremiah 15:2[/smear:#19e61e:0]
This should be there guide and assurance:
35[smear:#e61964] Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or danger, or sword?
36 As it is written,
“For your sake we are being killed all the day long; we are regarded as sheep to be slaughtered.”
37 No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us.
38 For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, 39 nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 8:35-39 [/smear:#5c19e6:0]
And they are to do as our Lord and Savior did:
[smear:#622e5b]When he was reviled, he did not revile in return; when he suffered, he did not threaten, but continued entrusting himself to him who judges justly. 1 Peter:23[/smear:#e6195d:0]
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,626
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Post by fearnot on Mar 20, 2020 10:35:00 GMT -5
Wow oh wow Cindy!!!!!! I had NO idea that so-called' Christians....... Threatened your life!!!
I am so so so sorry to hear that!!!
Well, it certainly puts a new spin on how I look at unbelievers angry rants!! If so-called believers can be that scary....( and I suppose that could happen) but I guess, I should not be surprised in the least, at the unsaved!!
I always am to an extent, but that was an eye opener.
I know people get murderous over politics these days
But religion? I thought that was back in the day looong ago when that happened. I know some who are Muslims, or Hindus etc kill Christians in other countries but that is a different religion against a Christian
But for treats from Christian to Christian....that was shocking to me. I want to think that they were not really a Christian at all but ......????
Really? You must have been greatly unsettled..... but knowing you...
You prayed for them, and relied on the Lord, for protection or whatever His will was.
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,626
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Post by fearnot on Mar 21, 2020 11:25:56 GMT -5
Now we come to the last false prophet.
[smear:#a319e6]]11 Then I saw another beast rising out of the earth. It had two horns like a lamb and it spoke like a dragon. 12 It exercises all the authority of the first beast in its presence, and makes the earth and its inhabitants worship the first beast, whose mortal wound was healed. Revelation 13:11,12[/smear:#e619dc:0]
Notice, this 2nd beast has horns 'LIKE' a lamb..... It tries to imitate and deceive the world Satan is a liar. Satan wars against God and wants to be God, the anti-Christ , want to take the place of honor as God the son, and now this beast, who would take the place of God the spirit, thus completing the evil trinity imitation of the true God.
They masquerade pretending they were the true truth.
And just as the Holy Spirit speaks of and magnifies Jesus So this false spirit's one aim will be to magnify the false Christ. Whereas, the Antichrist is mostly a political and military leader, the false prophet is a religious leader. ...so they make quite a combination.
So this false prophet seems to be like a lamb, but speaks like a dragon this reminds us of this verse:
[smear:#e6195c]15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves. Matthew 7:15[/smear:#19e69e:0]
His words will be in opposition to God’s Word.... and he will influence the world to worship the Antichrist ( like the anti-Christ was God).
But there is a hint all is not lovely dovey with this unholy alliance
Note: the false prophet exercises all the authority of the first beast .......in its presence,
so his imitating ,the true Holy Spirit ( even tho he refuses to obtain worship for himself ...
is because he is on a 'short' leash he has this power seemingly only in the presence of the anti-Christ.
You might think it hard to believe in today's world of Atheism that a religious leader would not get very far....
But men ( and woman) always have had some kind of belief system It may be in aliens, psychic powers, the the supernatural, Karma, even science and atheism are 'belief systems' to live by.... but this powerful demon possessed man will be able to deceive all of these men and their systems. And the world has gone through such tribulation as never before and will be desperate for a deliverer. And so he will be able to pull off a universal ecumenical religion of worship of the anti-Christ.
Don't be mistaken, he will not be a bumbling idiot, rather he will be a gifted orator, the greatest false preacher ever, he will be convincing, appealing. hypnotic, all in all, a tremendous communicator.
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