fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,588
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Post by fearnot on Mar 22, 2020 10:32:26 GMT -5
Yesterday we looked a little at the false prophet. Still you might wonder why would a political/military figure like the anti-Christ, want or have need of a spiritual figure ( like this false prophet)?
And yet, we see that throughout history. Just a few examples from the Bible would be:
Pharaoh and his 2 magicians: Jannes and Jambres
Balak king of Moab when wanting to destroy Israel, tries to get the prophet Balaam to curse Israel
When Absalom; (King David's son) tried to overthrow his father, he tried to do so by did so by using the assistance of Ahitophel ( a priest)
Ahab and Jezebel had their priests of Baal.
And on it goes.....Hitler, contacted demonic mediums etc. etc. etc.
But in the case of the anti-Christ and the false prophet, they will merge and all worship will go to the political/military man who will declare himself God.
After the first 3 1/2 years, will come the abomination of desolation ,when the Antichrist will declare himself to be God
[smear:#5919e6]15 “So when you see the abomination of desolation spoken of by the prophet Daniel, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand), Matthew 24:15 [/smear:#28e619:0]
This false prophet will perform such great signs they will seem to be real. [smear:#1ae619] 13 It performs great signs, even making fire come down from heaven to earth in front of people, 14 and by the signs that it is allowed to work in the presence of the beast it deceives those who dwell on earth, telling them to make an image for the beast that was wounded by the sword and yet lived. Revelation 13:13,14[/smear:#622385:0]
It may be the false prophet will not be as fierce as the anti-Christ, but a 'seemingly' gentler ( not military like), subtle, even winsome and harmless, meek and mild....like a lamb ( a false lamb ..... but really a wolf in sheep's clothing.)
He will also offer offering deceptive hope and comfort and great signs...
He seemingly can make fire come down from Heaven ( like the 2 witnesses did and in the Old Testament like Elijah’s power with fire).
[smear:#263051]” 10 But Elijah answered the captain of fifty, “If I am a man of God, let fire come down from heaven and consume you and your fifty.” Then fire came down from heaven and consumed him and his fifty. 11 Again the king sent to him another captain of fifty men with his fifty. And he answered and said to him, “O man of God, this is the king's order, ‘Come down quickly!’” 12 But Elijah answered them, “If I am a man of God, let fire come down from heaven and consume you and your fifty.” Then the fire of God came down from heaven and consumed him and his fifty". 2 Kings 1:10-12[/smear:#e6e019:0]
and another one will be that of pulling off a fake resurrection ( of the anti-Christ who 'supposedly dies). Imitating and counterfeiting Christ by deception.
The signs he performs even if real ( I tend to think mostly they will not be, everything else about these two are lies and deceptions, so why would his signs be different),
have a major difference from the true miracles of Jesus.....
Jesus miracles were not just 'signs' they were based on the Word of God.
[smear:#79870d]1 "Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2 By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, 3 and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God". I John 4:1-3[/smear:#e6196a:0]
[smear:#315276]1" If a prophet or a dreamer of dreams arises among you and gives you a sign or a wonder, 2 and the sign or wonder that he tells you comes to pass, and if he says, ‘Let us go after other gods,’ which you have not known, ‘and let us serve them,’ 3 you shall not listen to the words of that prophet or that dreamer of dreams. For the Lord your God is testing you, to know whether you love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul. 4 You shall walk after the Lord your God and fear him and keep his commandments and obey his voice, and you shall serve him and hold fast to him". Deuteronomy 13:1-4[/smear:#e61949:0]
The sad thing is people are going to believe this.....they refused to believe the truth, but this they will fall for.
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Post by Cindy on Mar 23, 2020 10:17:16 GMT -5
In the next verses there are words to the wise ( I there are any) with ears to hear ( but choose not to hear), but there will still be believers who are alive who will hear and need to know. These verses tell more about what will happen.
[smear:#e6196c]
9 If anyone has an ear, let him hear:
10 If anyone is to be taken captive, to captivity he goes; if anyone is to be slain with the sword, with the sword must he be slain.
Here is a call for the endurance and faith of the saints. Revelation 13:9,10[/smear:#49e619:0]
Its already set that if you are to be captive, then into captivity you must go, do not fight it.... even execution at the hand of the anti-Christ.
This is stating the trust the tribulation believers must have in God’s sovereignty and of their place in history. If it is their God-ordained role to be a martyr, then so be it, do not fight it.
The time for being a militant Christian is gone ( if there ever was a real time). Their weapons must be 'spiritual' ( prayer, the word of God, love etc.)
And when they ask you, ‘Where shall we go?’ you shall say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord:
[smear:#e67e19]“Those who are for pestilence, to pestilence, and those who are for the sword, to the sword; those who are for famine, to famine, and those who are for captivity, to captivity.’ Jeremiah 15:2[/smear:#19e61e:0]
This should be there guide and assurance:
35[smear:#e61964] Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or danger, or sword?
36 As it is written,
“For your sake we are being killed all the day long; we are regarded as sheep to be slaughtered.”
37 No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us.
38 For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, 39 nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 8:35-39 [/smear:#5c19e6:0]
And they are to do as our Lord and Savior did:
[smear:#622e5b]When he was reviled, he did not revile in return; when he suffered, he did not threaten, but continued entrusting himself to him who judges justly. 1 Peter:23[/smear:#e6195d:0]
Yes, and doing as Jesus did is a hard one for all of us. When someone wrongs us we instantly want to retaliate, and usually do, even if it's only with words. I hate that it took so long for me to realize that Jesus really does command us to love everyone and to treat everyone with love and respect, even if we're sure they don't deserve it.
I would like to bring up one other thing about the last sentence of the verse you quoted. “This calls for patient endurance and faithfulness on the part of the saints.” (Revelation 13:10 c) Some godly pastors and teachers believe that during the Tribulation, a believers salvation will not be guaranteed the way ours is. For us, once we are saved, nothing can take our salvation away from us because no one, not even we ourselves, can snatch us out of the Father's hand. These teachers say that during the Tribulation believers will have to constantly prove their salvation. That if they sin and don't repent immediately they would lose their salvation. They suggest that's why the Bible constantly calls for endurance or perseverance.
Another verse they use to "prove' this is when Jesus was explaining what would happen during the Tribulation, He said: “but he who stands firm to the end will be saved.” (Matthew 24:13) Jesus isn't talking about salvation being different after the rapture here, or anywhere. Instead, we're taught that all who are truly saved persevere through trials, because they are saved and are relying on the Lord, not themselves. Those who don't persevere, who don't "stand firm", are not really saved and never were. But many verses show us that perseverance/endurance is called for constantly for all who are saved, not just during the Tribulation. For example: “because you know that the testing of your faith develops perseverance. Perseverance must finish its work so that you may be mature and complete, not lacking anything.” (James 1:3–4) None of the verses indicate losing your salvation if you don't persevere, at the most a person may lose a reward.
To help anyone who's been caught up in this misunderstanding, let me share what MacArthur says about the verse in Matthew above: “but he who stands firm to the end will be saved.” (Matthew 24:13)
The ones who persevere are the same ones who are saved—not the ones whose love grows cold. This does not suggest that our perseverance secures our salvation. Scripture everywhere teaches precisely the opposite: God, as part of His saving work, secures our perseverance. True believers “are protected by the power of God through faith for … salvation” (1Pe 1:5). The guarantee of our perseverance is built into the New Covenant promise. God says: “I will put the fear of Me in their hearts so that they will not turn away from Me” (Jer 32:40). Those who do fall away from Christ give conclusive proof that they were never truly believers to begin with (1Jn 2:19). To say that God secures our perseverance is not to say that we are passive in the process, however. He keeps us “through faith” (1Pe 1:5)—our faith. Scripture sometimes calls us to hold fast to our faith (Heb 10:23; Rev 3:11) or warns us against falling away (Heb 10:26–29). Such admonitions do not negate the many promises that true believers will persevere. (Jn 10:28, 29; Ro 8:38, 39; 1Co 1:8, 9; Php 1:6). Rather, the warnings & pleas are among the means God uses to secure our perseverance in the faith. Notice that the warnings & the promises often appear side by side. When Jude urges believers, “keep yourselves in the love of God” (Jude 21), he immediately points them to God,“who is able to keep you from stumbling” (Jude 24). The MacArthur study Bible
It was a relief for me to finally fully understand that there is no difference between God's salvation of someone before or after the rapture.
Wow oh wow Cindy!!!!!! I had NO idea that so-called' Christians....... Threatened your life!!!
I am so so so sorry to hear that!!!
Well, it certainly puts a new spin on how I look at unbelievers angry rants!! If so-called believers can be that scary....( and I suppose that could happen) but I guess, I should not be surprised in the least, at the unsaved!!
I always am to an extent, but that was an eye opener.
I know people get murderous over politics these days
But religion? I thought that was back in the day looong ago when that happened. I know some who are Muslims, or Hindus etc kill Christians in other countries but that is a different religion against a Christian
But for treats from Christian to Christian....that was shocking to me. I want to think that they were not really a Christian at all but ......????
Really? You must have been greatly unsettled..... but knowing you...
You prayed for them, and relied on the Lord, for protection or whatever His will was. you're correct...that's an a very good indication that they were not saved at all. But, if they have been elected to salvation, then sooner or later, the Lord will get them saved, one way or another. Yes, I was shocked to the core when that happened and it happened a number of times. More then 5 times over the years we had the old board. It was very scary, and once I almost called the police to report it because it was so scary. But Jason convinced me it wasn't necessary, and that he was sure I'd be ok. Although the guy did cause me some annoying and embarrassing problems. For example he gave my email addressed to his favorite hangout, which was a porn site, and then sent literally hundreds of emails to me from that site. It was awful! But Jason being a computer tech, was able to wipe it out with little problem so I only saw the first one. Another time one of our members tried to send a virus to my computer, but malwarebytes took care of that! Sadly, these things and quite a few other things that they did, they were actually proud of and would brag about to other people on another board. Jason discovered those sites and kept a close eye on them after that because they would also discuss their future plans for me there.
What was really upsetting to me was that the vast majority of the men that did this were men who claimed to be Christians and came to Fresh Hope to defend the faith against catholics. If I remember correctly, only one or maybe two of them were catholic. But these men gave Christians everywhere a very bad name. They were quite literally wolves in sheep's clothing.
It was a real eye opener for me, that's for sure. Because of Jason's ability to track them down and find where they were discussing what they would do, etc. I was able to learn more about them. The board they did that on was not a Christian board, so they were themselves there. They shared their love for porn and other similar things. Therefore I saw for myself just what a horrible hold those things have on a person and how Satan uses them to pervert the person and cause them to do things that they otherwise wouldn't have. I got an insiders view of spiritual warfare and it certainly made an impression on me! Pornography will twist a person badly and make them a slave to Satan. The occult will do the same thing. People who are living a homosexual or transgender lifestyle are also experiencing the same thing that people who use porn experience. They too are being used by Satan and are his slaves.
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Post by Cindy on Mar 23, 2020 10:36:24 GMT -5
I replied to your first two posts above this one.
Now we come to the last false prophet.
[smear:#a319e6]]11 Then I saw another beast rising out of the earth. It had two horns like a lamb and it spoke like a dragon. 12 It exercises all the authority of the first beast in its presence, and makes the earth and its inhabitants worship the first beast, whose mortal wound was healed. Revelation 13:11,12[/smear:#e619dc:0]
Notice, this 2nd beast has horns 'LIKE' a lamb..... It tries to imitate and deceive the world Satan is a liar. Satan wars against God and wants to be God, the anti-Christ , want to take the place of honor as God the son, and now this beast, who would take the place of God the spirit, thus completing the evil trinity imitation of the true God.
They masquerade pretending they were the true truth.
And just as the Holy Spirit speaks of and magnifies Jesus So this false spirit's one aim will be to magnify the false Christ. Whereas, the Antichrist is mostly a political and military leader, the false prophet is a religious leader. ...so they make quite a combination.
So this false prophet seems to be like a lamb, but speaks like a dragon this reminds us of this verse:
[smear:#e6195c]15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves. Matthew 7:15[/smear:#19e69e:0]
His words will be in opposition to God’s Word.... and he will influence the world to worship the Antichrist ( like the anti-Christ was God).
But there is a hint all is not lovely dovey with this unholy alliance
Note: the false prophet exercises all the authority of the first beast .......in its presence,
so his imitating ,the true Holy Spirit ( even tho he refuses to obtain worship for himself ...
is because he is on a 'short' leash he has this power seemingly only in the presence of the anti-Christ.
You might think it hard to believe in today's world of Atheism that a religious leader would not get very far....
But men ( and woman) always have had some kind of belief system It may be in aliens, psychic powers, the the supernatural, Karma, even science and atheism are 'belief systems' to live by.... but this powerful demon possessed man will be able to deceive all of these men and their systems. And the world has gone through such tribulation as never before and will be desperate for a deliverer. And so he will be able to pull off a universal ecumenical religion of worship of the anti-Christ.
Don't be mistaken, he will not be a bumbling idiot, rather he will be a gifted orator, the greatest false preacher ever, he will be convincing, appealing. hypnotic, all in all, a tremendous communicator.
Good! But I was wondering where you got the idea he could only do things in the presence of the antichrist...then I realized it was the translation you used. Let me show you the other way it's translated. “He exercised all the authority of the first beast on his behalf, and made the earth and its inhabitants worship the first beast, whose fatal wound had been healed.” (Revelation 13:12) "on his behalf" is also found in Rev 13:14; and Rev 19:20.”
Because of the various different ways this verse can be translated, it's a good idea for us not to be dogmatic about the meaning. In other words, we should say that while it's certainly possible that he only has the power when he's with the AntiChrist, it's also just as possible that he can use the power any time.
Yesterday we looked a little at the false prophet. Still you might wonder why would a political/military figure like the anti-Christ, want or have need of a spiritual figure ( like this false prophet)?
And yet, we see that throughout history. Just a few examples from the Bible would be:
Pharaoh and his 2 magicians: Jannes and Jambres
Balak king of Moab when wanting to destroy Israel, tries to get the prophet Balaam to curse Israel
When Absalom; (King David's son) tried to overthrow his father, he tried to do so by did so by using the assistance of Ahitophel ( a priest)
Ahab and Jezebel had their priests of Baal.
And on it goes.....Hitler, contacted demonic mediums etc. etc. etc.
But in the case of the anti-Christ and the false prophet, they will merge and all worship will go to the political/military man who will declare himself God.
After the first 3 1/2 years, will come the abomination of desolation ,when the Antichrist will declare himself to be God
[smear:#5919e6]15 “So when you see the abomination of desolation spoken of by the prophet Daniel, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand), Matthew 24:15 [/smear:#28e619:0]
This false prophet will perform such great signs they will seem to be real. [smear:#1ae619] 13 It performs great signs, even making fire come down from heaven to earth in front of people, 14 and by the signs that it is allowed to work in the presence of the beast it deceives those who dwell on earth, telling them to make an image for the beast that was wounded by the sword and yet lived. Revelation 13:13,14[/smear:#622385:0]
It may be the false prophet will not be as fierce as the anti-Christ, but a 'seemingly' gentler ( not military like), subtle, even winsome and harmless, meek and mild....like a lamb ( a false lamb ..... but really a wolf in sheep's clothing.)
He will also offer offering deceptive hope and comfort and great signs...
He seemingly can make fire come down from Heaven ( like the 2 witnesses did and in the Old Testament like Elijah’s power with fire).
[smear:#263051]” 10 But Elijah answered the captain of fifty, “If I am a man of God, let fire come down from heaven and consume you and your fifty.” Then fire came down from heaven and consumed him and his fifty. 11 Again the king sent to him another captain of fifty men with his fifty. And he answered and said to him, “O man of God, this is the king's order, ‘Come down quickly!’” 12 But Elijah answered them, “If I am a man of God, let fire come down from heaven and consume you and your fifty.” Then the fire of God came down from heaven and consumed him and his fifty". 2 Kings 1:10-12[/smear:#e6e019:0]
and another one will be that of pulling off a fake resurrection ( of the anti-Christ who 'supposedly dies). Imitating and counterfeiting Christ by deception.
The signs he performs even if real ( I tend to think mostly they will not be, everything else about these two are lies and deceptions, so why would his signs be different),
have a major difference from the true miracles of Jesus.....
Jesus miracles were not just 'signs' they were based on the Word of God.
[smear:#79870d]1 "Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2 By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, 3 and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God". I John 4:1-3[/smear:#e6196a:0]
[smear:#315276]1" If a prophet or a dreamer of dreams arises among you and gives you a sign or a wonder, 2 and the sign or wonder that he tells you comes to pass, and if he says, ‘Let us go after other gods,’ which you have not known, ‘and let us serve them,’ 3 you shall not listen to the words of that prophet or that dreamer of dreams. For the Lord your God is testing you, to know whether you love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul. 4 You shall walk after the Lord your God and fear him and keep his commandments and obey his voice, and you shall serve him and hold fast to him". Deuteronomy 13:1-4[/smear:#e61949:0]
The sad thing is people are going to believe this.....they refused to believe the truth, but this they will fall for.
Well said! Amen! “The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with the work of Satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders, and in every sort of evil that deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.” (2 Thessalonians 2:9–12)
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,588
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Post by fearnot on Mar 23, 2020 11:08:07 GMT -5
Again, I had no idea, and I am sure most members did not know what was going on back then!!! It was way worse, than even I thought!!!
I know I did pray for you back then, ( but not as much as now),
however, I would have certainly ( I hope) been moved to have prayed even more so....
still, God provided and protected you and you were surely brave to keep on going with the site, under such scary threats!!
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,588
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Post by fearnot on Mar 23, 2020 13:22:06 GMT -5
I am not sure if this will be done in two parts or not but I will post the last 4 verses of Chapter 13 and if necessary post again tomorrow.
[smear:#54e619]15 "And it was allowed to give breath to the image of the beast, so that the image of the beast might even speak and might cause those who would not worship the image of the beast to be slain. 16 Also it causes all, both small and great, both rich and poor, both free and slave, to be marked on the right hand or the forehead, 17 so that no one can buy or sell unless he has the mark, that is, the name of the beast or the number of its name. 18 This calls for wisdom: let the one who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man, and his number is 666". Revelation13:15-18[/smear:#e619bc:0]
I am not saying that the image will be an AI....just that it reminds me of the incredible ( and to me somewhat horrifying) technology we have today.
In fact, there is already ground work of a God-bot religion founded by former Google executive Anthony Levandowski.
Levandowski is quoted as saying: "But if there is something a billion times smarter than the smartest human, what else are you going to call it?"
Also know as Way of the Future church
Here is one more quote: "You might laugh at the notion of an AI being so powerful that humans bow down to worship it, but several experts argue that the idea is a lot more feasible than you might think".
However, we have no idea what exactly the speaking image will be, ( but it will be ultimately compelling) and people tend to 'worship' whatever is more talented, smarter, powerful etc. than they are....
after all the judgments already on the earth, the unbelievers will be more than willing to worship whatever necessary, to get some hoped for relief.
Of course, the Christians will not worship such an idol and for that, they will be executed.... ( but even then, not all believers or Jews will die).
This false prophet will cause all, both small and great, both rich and poor, both free and slave, to be marked on the right hand or the forehead,
The 'ALL' are:
[smear:#19e651]".......those who are perishing, because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. 2 Thessalonians 2:10[/smear:#e61959:0]
Believer's will refuse to take the mark of the beast...but that means, they will not be able to buy or sell.... plus being without the mark, makes you also a target to be killed.
It would seem the world will have become a cashless society, and instead of credit cards, some sort of mark will be the currency.
There have been many ideas concerning what the 'mark' will be, and I do not know, but this we do know: it will be an identifying mark and in taking it will be the equivalent of eternal, permanent rejection of being able to be saved by Jesus. To take this mark will make the person to be beyond all possibility of redemption Their fate is sealed.
It is not just that people take the mark in order to buy food in order to live, but the damning aspect is that they knowingly and willingly give their whole allegiance and worship to the anti-Christ ( that is why there is no longer any redemption or salvation available to them). Because they fear death of starvation, and the anti-Christ is 'saving' them, they make a fatal choice.
The truth is, it would be better to starve in this life, and live forever with God in eternity, than 3 1/2 years of the worse judgments to come, and eternity in Hell forever.
Well, it could be the mark will be a 'chip' because certainly we have the technology in place....but it could be something else also. Additionally, it seems people will be able to identify the name and number of the beast as 666 I do not know what that would be really tho. But instead of a credit card, where we all have different numbers, it seems like there might be just this one number.
I am just speculating now...but I wonder since the mark is connected to his name....and worship to him, if its spiritual aspect is even higher than the technical aspect ( If there is going to be such technology in place).
I know, I am bordering on conspiracy now, but I wonder about Satan and the Corina virus.....because I keep hearing about money being a spreader of the virus.... if the virus got bad enough ( it or some following plagues, might people not be even more inclined to do away with real money?) OK I will stop LOL
I think I will actually leave this and go onto ch. 14 tomorrow unless you say otherwise.
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Post by Cindy on Mar 24, 2020 10:49:32 GMT -5
Again, I had no idea, and I am sure most members did not know what was going on back then!!! It was way worse, than even I thought!!!
I know I did pray for you back then, ( but not as much as now),
however, I would have certainly ( I hope) been moved to have prayed even more so....
still, God provided and protected you and you were surely brave to keep on going with the site, under such scary threats!!
I appreciate all of your prayers, then as well as now!
I am not sure if this will be done in two parts or not but I will post the last 4 verses of Chapter 13 and if necessary post again tomorrow.
[smear:#54e619]15 "And it was allowed to give breath to the image of the beast, so that the image of the beast might even speak and might cause those who would not worship the image of the beast to be slain. 16 Also it causes all, both small and great, both rich and poor, both free and slave, to be marked on the right hand or the forehead, 17 so that no one can buy or sell unless he has the mark, that is, the name of the beast or the number of its name. 18 This calls for wisdom: let the one who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man, and his number is 666". Revelation13:15-18[/smear:#e619bc:0]
I am not saying that the image will be an AI....just that it reminds me of the incredible ( and to me somewhat horrifying) technology we have today.
In fact, there is already ground work of a God-bot religion founded by former Google executive Anthony Levandowski.
Levandowski is quoted as saying: "But if there is something a billion times smarter than the smartest human, what else are you going to call it?"
Also know as Way of the Future church
Here is one more quote: "You might laugh at the notion of an AI being so powerful that humans bow down to worship it, but several experts argue that the idea is a lot more feasible than you might think".
However, we have no idea what exactly the speaking image will be, ( but it will be ultimately compelling) and people tend to 'worship' whatever is more talented, smarter, powerful etc. than they are....
after all the judgments already on the earth, the unbelievers will be more than willing to worship whatever necessary, to get some hoped for relief.
Of course, the Christians will not worship such an idol and for that, they will be executed.... ( but even then, not all believers or Jews will die).
This false prophet will cause all, both small and great, both rich and poor, both free and slave, to be marked on the right hand or the forehead,
The 'ALL' are:
[smear:#19e651]".......those who are perishing, because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. 2 Thessalonians 2:10[/smear:#e61959:0]
Believer's will refuse to take the mark of the beast...but that means, they will not be able to buy or sell.... plus being without the mark, makes you also a target to be killed.
It would seem the world will have become a cashless society, and instead of credit cards, some sort of mark will be the currency.
There have been many ideas concerning what the 'mark' will be, and I do not know, but this we do know: it will be an identifying mark and in taking it will be the equivalent of eternal, permanent rejection of being able to be saved by Jesus. To take this mark will make the person to be beyond all possibility of redemption Their fate is sealed.
It is not just that people take the mark in order to buy food in order to live, but the damning aspect is that they knowingly and willingly give their whole allegiance and worship to the anti-Christ ( that is why there is no longer any redemption or salvation available to them). Because they fear death of starvation, and the anti-Christ is 'saving' them, they make a fatal choice.
The truth is, it would be better to starve in this life, and live forever with God in eternity, than 3 1/2 years of the worse judgments to come, and eternity in Hell forever.
Well, it could be the mark will be a 'chip' because certainly we have the technology in place....but it could be something else also. Additionally, it seems people will be able to identify the name and number of the beast as 666 I do not know what that would be really tho. But instead of a credit card, where we all have different numbers, it seems like there might be just this one number.
I am just speculating now...but I wonder since the mark is connected to his name....and worship to him, if its spiritual aspect is even higher than the technical aspect ( If there is going to be such technology in place).
I know, I am bordering on conspiracy now, but I wonder about Satan and the Corina virus.....because I keep hearing about money being a spreader of the virus.... if the virus got bad enough ( it or some following plagues, might people not be even more inclined to do away with real money?) OK I will stop LOL
I think I will actually leave this and go onto ch. 14 tomorrow unless you say otherwise.
Good! Yes, out of all the people's on earth, only the Jews and Christians will refuse to worship the image. Of course when we say that, we mean the "real" Jew's and the "real" Christians. What do I mean by a "real Jew"? I mean a person who truly loves and worships the One True God. They may not yet know Jesus, but their hearts are being softened and their minds are opening to the Truth, and eventually, they will accept Jesus as their Messiah.
Chapter 14 will give us more information about this mark of the beast. But rather then wait, I do want to make a few statements here about it in case anyone reading this isn't aware of this.
In Revelation 14:9–11 we're told too that any who take the Mark won't be forgiven. Often people fear that this is some kind of second unforgivable sin, but it's not. It's still the same sin of rejecting salvation through Christ. The only difference is that they've also chosen to state publicly at the same time, who they are accepting as their "savior" instead, which of course is the Antichrist. That's why taking the Mark is unforgivable. It has nothing to do with the mark itself or with the number or money, or anything else.
Many Christians fear the Mark and are concerned about the possibility of unsaved loved ones taking the Mark unaware of what they're really doing. This simply isn't possible though, for two reasons. First, as we just said, the sin isn't in the mark itself, the sin is what taking the mark means - that the person is rejecting Christ in favor of the Antichrist. Remember, all through the Bible, God reminds us over and over again, that it's what is in our hearts that concerns Him, not what's on the outside. Secondly, God Himself will make sure that every human being alive during this time, will have heard the Gospel and will know what the meaning of taking the Mark really is and what will happen to them if they take it. God will not allow anyone to take the Mark unknowingly. (this is explained starting at Rev 14:6-13 among other places) During this last half of the Tribulation, miracles will abound - real miracles I mean. Angels, bigger then life, will be flying all over the earth announcing the gospel. Every single human being will have heard the gospel by this time, because if they haven't heard it from a human, or read it somewhere, then they will hear it from the angel. Everyone will be given a chance to be saved. Angels will also be warning people not to take the mark or worship the beast. There are also the 144,000 witnesses that will be informing the people, and the two witnesses will do so before they are killed. So there is no way that anyone will be able to not know the Truth about the mark and about what it means, or even about the AntiChrist!
The people who do take the mark will know they are taking it as a way to show the whole world that they love and worship the AntiChrist. I'm sure some will be tempted to do so because they worry about not being able to survive without it. Yet at the same time, I'm absolutely sure that many will have shown them that they are surviving without it and warn them yet again not to do it. These are the "doubleminded" people. “But when he asks, he must believe and not doubt, because he who doubts is like a wave of the sea, blown and tossed by the wind. That man should not think he will receive anything from the Lord; he is a double-minded man, unstable in all he does.” (James 1:6–8) People who are doubleminded, also wind up with a hardened heart. Each time they doubt their hearts get harder (unless they repent of course.) These people will also know that Jesus has told all of us: “The man who loves his life will lose it, while the man who hates his life in this world will keep it for eternal life.” (John 12:25) Most of us haven't had to deal with actually losing our life in this world, but those alive during the Tribulation will have to deal with this. That's the price they pay for putting of belief until then. These verses will be yet another warning for them: “But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God’s wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed. God “will give to each person according to what he has done.” To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger.” (Romans 2:5–8) Sadly, there will be a huge number of people who will chose to be self seeking...who will chose to love their life in this world, and because of that, just as Jesus clearly says, they will then lose their life. They may be able to buy food once they have the mark, but that won't feed their souls. From that moment on their hearts will become super hard and they will worship the AntiChrist and be one with him.
Finally, let me share one more verse which we'll be seeing shortly: “A third angel followed them and said in a loud voice: “If anyone worships the beast and his image and receives his mark on the forehead or on the hand, he, too, will drink of the wine of God’s fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. He will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb.” (Revelation 14:9–10) Do you see it? The person must first worship the beast and his image and THEN receive his mark. People who receive that mark will already be worshiping the beast, even if only in their own minds and hearts. No one who truly loves the Lord will be able to get that mark. The Lord won't allow it to happen. Why? Because the Lord knows who belongs to Him and no one and nothing, not even they themselves can snatch them out of our Lord's hand.
I hope you don't mind me harping on that Barbara. I just hate to see Christians worry about something that there's no reason to worry about...
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,588
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Post by fearnot on Mar 24, 2020 11:09:05 GMT -5
Now we come to chapter 14 and a look at the 144,000.
[smear:#2baf17]1 Then I looked, and behold, on Mount Zion stood the Lamb, and with him 144,000 who had his name and his Father's name written on their foreheads. 2 And I heard a voice from heaven like the roar of many waters and like the sound of loud thunder. The voice I heard was like the sound of harpists playing on their harps, 3 and they were singing a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and before the elders. No one could learn that song except the 144,000 who had been redeemed from the earth. 4 It is these who have not defiled themselves with women, for they are virgins. It is these who follow the Lamb wherever he goes. These have been redeemed from mankind as firstfruits for God and the Lamb, 5 and in their mouth no lie was found, for they are blameless. Revelation 14:1,2[/smear:#4c19e6:0]
The first thing we are told is they are standing ( in victory I think) on Mount Zion with the Lamb ( Jesus).... this is the 'real' lamb, not the imitation.
We are seeing the Tribulation from God's perspective and here are some verses about Mount Zion: [smear:#95e619] 4 He who sits in the heavens laughs; the Lord holds them in derision. 5 Then he will speak to them in his wrath, and terrify them in his fury, saying, 6 “As for me, I have set my King on Zion, my holy hill.” Psalm 2:4-6[/smear:#c719e6:0]
[smear:#19c3e6]"For the Lord has chosen Zion; he has desired it for his dwelling place": Psalm 132:14[/smear:#e619e0:0]
[smear:#10358b] 31 "The sun shall be turned to darkness, and the moon to blood, before the great and awesome day of the Lord comes. 32 And it shall come to pass that everyone who calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved. For in Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there shall be those who escape, as the Lord has said, and among the survivors shall be those whom the Lord calls". Joel 2:31,32[/smear:#9fe619:0]
If anyone gets to stand with Jesus, they are victorious! These 144,000 have gone thru 7 years of judgment from Heaven, and the wrath of Hell... and remain pure and faithful....and victorious.
As an aside, in Chapter 13 we had the number, 666, in this chapter, we also have a number, 144,000.
In Revelation chapter 7 we heard of these men that were sealed: [smear:#19d3e6]
"4 And I heard the number of the sealed, 144,000, sealed from every tribe of the sons of Israel:" Revelation 7:4[/smear:#24e619:0]
and here we get a little more information about the sealing: they had the Lamb's ( Jesus) name and his Father's name written on their foreheads.
They will be protected until God calls them to heaven, which reminds us of these verses: [smear:#47865f] 37 "Mark the blameless and behold the upright, for there is a future for the man of peace. 38 But transgressors shall be altogether destroyed; the future of the wicked shall be cut off.
39 The salvation of the righteous is from the Lord; he is their stronghold in the time of trouble. 40 The Lord helps them and delivers them; he delivers them from the wicked and saves them, because they take refuge in him." Psalm 37:37-40[/smear:#d319e6:0]
I will look at these men more tomorrow
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,588
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Post by fearnot on Mar 24, 2020 12:19:31 GMT -5
No I do not mind in the least! I am glad you either add to (what I forget, don't think of, etc etc.) or put emphasis on something important that I kind of brushed over
especially, because like you said, to avoid needless worry!!
I am all for avoiding 'needless' worry.....I do tooooo much of it as it stands, so rather.... Thank you
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Post by Cindy on Mar 25, 2020 10:14:43 GMT -5
Now we come to chapter 14 and a look at the 144,000.
[smear:#2baf17]1 Then I looked, and behold, on Mount Zion stood the Lamb, and with him 144,000 who had his name and his Father's name written on their foreheads. 2 And I heard a voice from heaven like the roar of many waters and like the sound of loud thunder. The voice I heard was like the sound of harpists playing on their harps, 3 and they were singing a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and before the elders. No one could learn that song except the 144,000 who had been redeemed from the earth. 4 It is these who have not defiled themselves with women, for they are virgins. It is these who follow the Lamb wherever he goes. These have been redeemed from mankind as firstfruits for God and the Lamb, 5 and in their mouth no lie was found, for they are blameless. Revelation 14:1,2[/smear:#4c19e6:0]
The first thing we are told is they are standing ( in victory I think) on Mount Zion with the Lamb ( Jesus).... this is the 'real' lamb, not the imitation.
We are seeing the Tribulation from God's perspective and here are some verses about Mount Zion: [smear:#95e619] 4 He who sits in the heavens laughs; the Lord holds them in derision. 5 Then he will speak to them in his wrath, and terrify them in his fury, saying, 6 “As for me, I have set my King on Zion, my holy hill.” Psalm 2:4-6[/smear:#c719e6:0]
[smear:#19c3e6]"For the Lord has chosen Zion; he has desired it for his dwelling place": Psalm 132:14[/smear:#e619e0:0]
[smear:#10358b] 31 "The sun shall be turned to darkness, and the moon to blood, before the great and awesome day of the Lord comes. 32 And it shall come to pass that everyone who calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved. For in Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there shall be those who escape, as the Lord has said, and among the survivors shall be those whom the Lord calls". Joel 2:31,32[/smear:#9fe619:0]
If anyone gets to stand with Jesus, they are victorious! These 144,000 have gone thru 7 years of judgment from Heaven, and the wrath of Hell... and remain pure and faithful....and victorious.
As an aside, in Chapter 13 we had the number, 666, in this chapter, we also have a number, 144,000.
In Revelation chapter 7 we heard of these men that were sealed: [smear:#19d3e6]
"4 And I heard the number of the sealed, 144,000, sealed from every tribe of the sons of Israel:" Revelation 7:4[/smear:#24e619:0]
and here we get a little more information about the sealing: they had the Lamb's ( Jesus) name and his Father's name written on their foreheads.
They will be protected until God calls them to heaven, which reminds us of these verses: [smear:#47865f] 37 "Mark the blameless and behold the upright, for there is a future for the man of peace. 38 But transgressors shall be altogether destroyed; the future of the wicked shall be cut off.
39 The salvation of the righteous is from the Lord; he is their stronghold in the time of trouble. 40 The Lord helps them and delivers them; he delivers them from the wicked and saves them, because they take refuge in him." Psalm 37:37-40[/smear:#d319e6:0]
I will look at these men more tomorrow
Good and interesting! Boy, Revelation 14:1–5 can sure be confusing! Here we have the 144,000 which we met earlier in chapter 7. They're the Jewish witnesses. I hope people notice the decidedly Jewish slant so much of the Tribulation has. Anyway, where are these witnesses in these 5 verses? “Then I looked, and there before me was the Lamb, standing on Mount Zion, and with him 144,000 who had his name and his Father’s name written on their foreheads. And I heard a sound from heaven like the roar of rushing waters and like a loud peal of thunder. The sound I heard was like that of harpists playing their harps. And they sang a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders. No one could learn the song except the 144,000 who had been redeemed from the earth. These are those who did not defile themselves with women, for they kept themselves pure. They follow the Lamb wherever he goes. They were purchased from among men and offered as firstfruits to God and the Lamb. No lie was found in their mouths; they are blameless.” (Revelation 14:1–5) In the first verse it says they're on Mt Zion, but then later it says they're standing before the throne and the 4 living creatures, etc, which would be in heaven! So which is it? Different teachers believe different ways about these verses. Some believe they're in heaven standing on the heavenly Mt Zion. I have trouble buying that though as there's no mention of heavenly Mt Zion elsewhere. All other references to it indicate that it's on the earth. So then it looks like we have to decide if the throne comes down to the earth or if the lamb and witnesses start out on the earth but then go up to Heaven. Personally I lean toward them starting out on earth and winding up in Heaven. It's not so hard to imagine if we remember this is a vision that he saw, not necessarily something that was actually happening at that moment, but something to get across what God wants John and us to learn.
There is a tremendous amount of information packed into these verses. I'm not going to say any more though as you said you'd be speaking about the witnesses next, and I don't want to cover something you were planning to.
No I do not mind in the least! I am glad you either add to (what I forget, don't think of, etc etc.) or put emphasis on something important that I kind of brushed over
especially, because like you said, to avoid needless worry!!
I am all for avoiding 'needless' worry.....I do tooooo much of it as it stands, so rather.... Thank you
I'm glad, thanks!
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,588
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Post by fearnot on Mar 25, 2020 10:34:42 GMT -5
I did not get very far on the 144,000 yesterday so will keep working on them today.
[smear:#e61943]1 Then I looked, and behold, on Mount Zion stood the Lamb, and with him 144,000 who had his name and his Father's name written on their foreheads. 2 And I heard a voice from heaven like the roar of many waters and like the sound of loud thunder. The voice I heard was like the sound of harpists playing on their harps, 3 and they were singing a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and before the elders. No one could learn that song except the 144,000 who had been redeemed from the earth. 4 It is these who have not defiled themselves with women, for they are virgins. It is these who follow the Lamb wherever he goes. These have been redeemed from mankind as firstfruits for God and the Lamb, 5 and in their mouth no lie was found, for they are blameless. Revelation 14:1,2[/smear:#1930e6:1]
I don't think I pointed out yesterday, how Satan copy cats the Lord even right down to marking his people on their foreheads..... because that is what God will do for the 144,000.
I do think I mentioned there is nothing so wonderful as belonging to God! And that fact, I think, will make them basically, invincible until God calls them home. These can say with confidence:
[smear:#e6d819]"31 What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us"? Romans 8:31[/smear:#1924e6:1]
In case I did not mention these 144,000 are Jewish believers in Jesus, (12,000 from every tribe, and there are 12 tribes)
who have been chosen out of the tribes of Israel to proclaim the gospel during the tribulation.
But here is what at first seems like a rather odd thing....they are singing ( or being sung too or both) what is so strange is this during so much devastation, judgment etc.
But here is a verse that might explain it a bit:
[smear:#dfe619]1 "Then Moses and the people of Israel sang this song to the Lord, saying, “I will sing to the Lord, for he has triumphed gloriously";..... Exodus 15:1[/smear:#e61938:1]
Perhaps this is one of the verses scoffers cling onto when then deem that all Christians will do in Heaven is sit on a cloud playing a harp.
Well, I most certainly do not believe that!! But I do have to ask, what is so boring or wrong with harps and harp playing. These must be people with little ear for music is all I can think.
I can say, yes, I personally, love piano, drums, guitars etc etc. In fact, I really love chamber music with harpsichord music!!
But I would never call harps 'boring"...instead they can invoke Joy, peace, victory, beauty etc.
so there is singing and music and the 144,000 sing!!!
Which reminds us of these verses: [smear:#8619e6]
1 "Shout for joy in the Lord, O you righteous! Praise befits the upright. 2 Give thanks to the Lord with the lyre; make melody to him with the harp of ten strings! 3 Sing to him a new song; play skillfully on the strings, with loud shouts. Psalm 33:1-3[/smear:#e63719:0]
Well this will have to go into tomorrow, where will look a bit more closely at these men.
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Post by Cindy on Mar 26, 2020 10:27:36 GMT -5
I did not get very far on the 144,000 yesterday so will keep working on them today.
[smear:#e61943]1 Then I looked, and behold, on Mount Zion stood the Lamb, and with him 144,000 who had his name and his Father's name written on their foreheads. 2 And I heard a voice from heaven like the roar of many waters and like the sound of loud thunder. The voice I heard was like the sound of harpists playing on their harps, 3 and they were singing a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and before the elders. No one could learn that song except the 144,000 who had been redeemed from the earth. 4 It is these who have not defiled themselves with women, for they are virgins. It is these who follow the Lamb wherever he goes. These have been redeemed from mankind as firstfruits for God and the Lamb, 5 and in their mouth no lie was found, for they are blameless. Revelation 14:1,2[/smear:#1930e6:1]
I don't think I pointed out yesterday, how Satan copy cats the Lord even right down to marking his people on their foreheads..... because that is what God will do for the 144,000.
I do think I mentioned there is nothing so wonderful as belonging to God! And that fact, I think, will make them basically, invincible until God calls them home. These can say with confidence:
[smear:#e6d819]"31 What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us"? Romans 8:31[/smear:#1924e6:1]
In case I did not mention these 144,000 are Jewish believers in Jesus, (12,000 from every tribe, and there are 12 tribes)
who have been chosen out of the tribes of Israel to proclaim the gospel during the tribulation.
But here is what at first seems like a rather odd thing....they are singing ( or being sung too or both) what is so strange is this during so much devastation, judgment etc.
But here is a verse that might explain it a bit:
[smear:#dfe619]1 "Then Moses and the people of Israel sang this song to the Lord, saying, “I will sing to the Lord, for he has triumphed gloriously";..... Exodus 15:1[/smear:#e61938:1]
Perhaps this is one of the verses scoffers cling onto when then deem that all Christians will do in Heaven is sit on a cloud playing a harp.
Well, I most certainly do not believe that!! But I do have to ask, what is so boring or wrong with harps and harp playing. These must be people with little ear for music is all I can think.
I can say, yes, I personally, love piano, drums, guitars etc etc. In fact, I really love chamber music with harpsichord music!!
But I would never call harps 'boring"...instead they can invoke Joy, peace, victory, beauty etc.
so there is singing and music and the 144,000 sing!!!
Which reminds us of these verses: [smear:#8619e6]
1 "Shout for joy in the Lord, O you righteous! Praise befits the upright. 2 Give thanks to the Lord with the lyre; make melody to him with the harp of ten strings! 3 Sing to him a new song; play skillfully on the strings, with loud shouts. Psalm 33:1-3[/smear:#e63719:0]
Well this will have to go into tomorrow, where will look a bit more closely at these men.
Yes, Satan is copying the Lord by marking those who worship him. Most folks either don't know or don't remember that God has marked each and every person who has been elected to salvation. This is mainly due to the fact that our "mark" is invisible, at least for now. “Now it is God who makes both us and you stand firm in Christ. He anointed us, set his seal of ownership on us, and put his Spirit in our hearts as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.” (2 Corinthians 1:21–22) Notice that God calls it His "seal of ownership". That's important because Satan's is the same thing but when Satan owns a person, he uses them as a slave that he hates. Whereas our God calls us His brother, and His friend. Yes, Paul says he (and us too) are servants of God, but he's speaking of that as a loving relationship, not as a tyrant who has ill will toward his servant which is how Satan views the people who belong to him. He hates them, while our God loves us.
So, when were we sealed? “And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,” (Ephesians 1:13) That happened at the moment of our salvation. Some may think that we're kind of stretching things to say that the Holy Spirit being our seal or mark is the same as the mark that Satan will use, but we're really not. The word that Paul uses in the original language for seal in this verse (as well as others) is speaking of an official mark of identification, like those put on a letter or official document. The seal says that the document is under the authority of the person the seal belonged to; that it was authentic, and prevents the contents from being changed in any way. So you can see that our Satan is copying our mark. It's interesting to me that we can't see our mark, at least for now, but that the one thing Satan does differently is to make his mark visible. He didn't have to do that.... his could have been invisible as our is. So it's interesting to reflect on what his reasons may be for making his mark visible. Personally I think it's at least partly due to his big ego, his sinful pride. He's basically "showing off, " but there could well be other reasons too.
I won't post it all, but I want to post a few verses that I think relate to why Satan chose to mark those who belong to him. “Now the glory of the God of Israel went up from above the cherubim, where it had been, and moved to the threshold of the temple. Then the LORD called to the man clothed in linen who had the writing kit at his side and said to him, “Go throughout the city of Jerusalem and put a mark on the foreheads of those who grieve and lament over all the detestable things that are done in it.” As I listened, he said to the others, “Follow him through the city and kill, without showing pity or compassion. Slaughter old men, young men and maidens, women and children, but do not touch anyone who has the mark. Begin at my sanctuary.” So they began with the elders who were in front of the temple.” (Ezekiel 9:3–6) Basically, God was angry due to the terrible idolatry most of the Israelites were guilty of. But as always, there was a small remnant that had stayed true to the Lord. So God had the Angel (who was most likely Jesus before his incarnation) mark each person who had stayed true to Him with a mark on their forehead. Then he had all the people who did not have that mark killed. The killing was actually done by Babylons soldiers, and some may have died during the siege.
MacArthur says, the mark was the indication of God’s elect, identified personally by the pre-incarnate Christ. He was marking the elect. Malachi 3:16–18 indicates a similar idea. “Then those who feared the LORD talked with each other, and the LORD listened and heard. A scroll of remembrance was written in his presence concerning those who feared the LORD and honored his name. “They will be mine,” says the LORD Almighty, “in the day when I make up my treasured possession. I will spare them, just as in compassion a man spares his son who serves him. And you will again see the distinction between the righteous and the wicked, between those who serve God and those who do not.” (Malachi 3:16–18) We've already seen it in Revelation as well: Rev 7:3; 9:4. ““Do not harm the land or the sea or the trees until we put a seal on the foreheads of the servants of our God.”” (Revelation 7:3) “They were told not to harm the grass of the earth or any plant or tree, but only those people who did not have the seal of God on their foreheads.” (Revelation 9:4)
I also think it's interesting that the Lord told mentions this to the Jews when He brings them out of Egypt: “Fix these words of mine in your hearts and minds; tie them as symbols on your hands and bind them on your foreheads.” (Deuteronomy 11:18) It may have nothing at all to do with it, but then again....it just might.
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,588
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Post by fearnot on Mar 26, 2020 11:37:40 GMT -5
As always thank you soooo much for the wonderful added information and especially verses :)
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,588
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Post by fearnot on Mar 26, 2020 13:11:43 GMT -5
Today I will look a bit more closely at the character of the 144,000
[smear:#8d18b3]4 "It is these who have not defiled themselves with women, for they are virgins. It is these who follow the Lamb wherever he goes. These have been redeemed from mankind as firstfruits for God and the Lamb, resisted the seduction of harlots 5 and in their mouth no lie was found, for they are blameless". Revelation 14:4,5[/smear:#e619b3:0]
When you consider both the distant past when idolatrous religion was often tied to perverse evil lust masquerading as rites helpful to crops, fertility, and 'religion'. But I think it was mostly, in reality, just a form of prostitution that supposedly drew the gods closer to you.
So, I would not be surprised with the way our world even today is, with porn no longer hidden in dark back rooms, but to my mind we see it almost in full i music videos, half time at games, movies, ads etc etc. That it will be a part of the one world religion of the tribulation.
However, these men will have kept themselves pure from such debasement. Still, if we think today's sexual deviancy is bad ( and it is!!) during the tribulation is going to be soooooo much worse! So much so they are going to need God's grace and power to not get pulled down.
[smear:#e64519] ".....there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven". Matthew 19:12 [/smear:#126460:0]
They will resisted the seduction of harlots. And one way ( I think) might help them in this, is that they follow the Lamb ( Jesus) wherever He goes.... which reminds us of this verse:
[smear:#5ca724] " 27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me". John 10:27[/smear:#e619c0:0]
So not only are they pure sexually, they are totally devoted loyal followers of our Lord.
The idea of first fruits is they belong to God. In the Old Testament these ( crops, first child etc.) were set aside, devoted to God, to be used as God saw fit.
so these men have one aim, one purpose in life, and that is to serve God.
Another character trait is they did not lie ( where as Satan and his do nothing but lie).
Proverbs gives an example of such purity of speaking:
[smear:#16604d]"6 Hear, for I will speak noble things, and from my lips will come what is right, 7 for my mouth will utter truth; wickedness is an abomination to my lips. 8 All the words of my mouth are righteous; there is nothing twisted or crooked in them." Proverbs 6-8[/smear:#942460:0]
But to be clear, they are human and so that does not mean they have never sinned ( as humans we all sin), rather they are sanctified, and will live holy, godly Christ-like lives. They will be a great influence in the world.
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Post by Cindy on Mar 27, 2020 10:56:38 GMT -5
Today I will look a bit more closely at the character of the 144,000
[smear:#8d18b3]4 "It is these who have not defiled themselves with women, for they are virgins. It is these who follow the Lamb wherever he goes. These have been redeemed from mankind as firstfruits for God and the Lamb, resisted the seduction of harlots 5 and in their mouth no lie was found, for they are blameless". Revelation 14:4,5[/smear:#e619b3:0]
When you consider both the distant past when idolatrous religion was often tied to perverse evil lust masquerading as rites helpful to crops, fertility, and 'religion'. But I think it was mostly, in reality, just a form of prostitution that supposedly drew the gods closer to you.
So, I would not be surprised with the way our world even today is, with porn no longer hidden in dark back rooms, but to my mind we see it almost in full i music videos, half time at games, movies, ads etc etc. That it will be a part of the one world religion of the tribulation.
However, these men will have kept themselves pure from such debasement. Still, if we think today's sexual deviancy is bad ( and it is!!) during the tribulation is going to be soooooo much worse! So much so they are going to need God's grace and power to not get pulled down.
[smear:#e64519] ".....there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven". Matthew 19:12 [/smear:#126460:0]
They will resisted the seduction of harlots. And one way ( I think) might help them in this, is that they follow the Lamb ( Jesus) wherever He goes.... which reminds us of this verse:
[smear:#5ca724] " 27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me". John 10:27[/smear:#e619c0:0]
So not only are they pure sexually, they are totally devoted loyal followers of our Lord.
The idea of first fruits is they belong to God. In the Old Testament these ( crops, first child etc.) were set aside, devoted to God, to be used as God saw fit.
so these men have one aim, one purpose in life, and that is to serve God.
Another character trait is they did not lie ( where as Satan and his do nothing but lie).
Proverbs gives an example of such purity of speaking:
[smear:#16604d]"6 Hear, for I will speak noble things, and from my lips will come what is right, 7 for my mouth will utter truth; wickedness is an abomination to my lips. 8 All the words of my mouth are righteous; there is nothing twisted or crooked in them." Proverbs 6-8[/smear:#942460:0]
But to be clear, they are human and so that does not mean they have never sinned ( as humans we all sin), rather they are sanctified, and will live holy, godly Christ-like lives. They will be a great influence in the world.
well done! What you said about these people reminded me of something that happened to us recently. My daughter was explaining something that had happened to her when she was young to her children. (my daughter and her husband were both virgins when they got married.) Anyway, when she finished her story, she told her children that things like that could happen to tempt them too so that they had to both pray for help and be very sure in their own minds and hearts that they wanted to remain virgins till they were married; otherwise the temptations would be to strong for them. Bruce heard all this and in the past has agreed with it all, but this time he said something to the effect of, "In today's world it would take a miracle for them to still be virgins when they get married!" He was right, but what he didn't realize is that it took a miracle for Bob and Jenn to remain virgins too, and thankfully God isn't stingy with His miracles! I mention that only to show, like you said, how awful things are today, and that it will take a miracle to keep just one or two people virgins, much less 144,000 of them!
The prophecy of the 144,000 being virgins is one that many people laugh about. They think it's impossible. I'd be willing to bet that when the time comes, that Satan will assign demons to each one to tempt them sexually.
Scoffers say this is impossible because very few Jews today can be sure of their ancestors or which tribe they come from, if any. What they don't realize is that this prophesy doesn't depend on any person knowing their tribe. It depends on God knowing their tribe, and that's something we can count on.
You said: "The idea of first fruits is they belong to God." which of course is true. But I'd like to explain about first fruits some more for those who may not understand it.
The first and best part of the harvest of crops or processed produce, animals, and firstborn sons. For Israel, the concept of “firstfruits” meant putting the Lord first in every part of life. That included the harvest, the shepherding of flocks, and child-bearing—especially in regard to the feasts and sacrificial system of the Law of Moses. The first fruits were used to support the Levitical priests. Firstfruits, in both the old and new testament emphasize the “first part of a larger harvest." Christ being raised from the dead is the “firstfruits” of the future resurrection when all believers will be raised. So, The 144,000, are the firstfruits of all of Israel who will be saved during the Tribulation. “I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in. And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: “The deliverer will come from Zion; he will turn godlessness away from Jacob.” (Romans 11:25–26) I guess another way you could put it is that the 144,000 represent "all Israel" who will be saved, just as Jesus' resurrections represents our resurrection that's still to come.
You said these men have one purpose in life which is to serve God. That reminds me of what Paul told us: “What I mean, brothers, is that the time is short. From now on those who have wives should live as if they had none; those who mourn, as if they did not; those who are happy, as if they were not; those who buy something, as if it were not theirs to keep; those who use the things of the world, as if not engrossed in them. For this world in its present form is passing away. I would like you to be free from concern. An unmarried man is concerned about the Lord’s affairs—how he can please the Lord. But a married man is concerned about the affairs of this world—how he can please his wife—” (1 Corinthians 7:29–33) It shows me that these 144,000 men are following Paul's advice by remaining virgins and not marrying so that their only concern is the Lord and His kingdom.
You also said: ".....there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven". Matthew 19:12." But didn't say why you said that... This is a bit confusing because the 144,000 men are not eunuchs. Did you just mean to say that they remained virgins for the sake of the kingdom of heaven?
What is most amazing to me about the 144,000 witnesses, is that they will be showing people what it looks like to be a real Christian. It makes me wish we had a few of them for our time too. I say that because these men don't have anything "extra". They're no different than any of us. Yes, they are sanctified, but so are we. The difference is that they probably know God's Word better than they know anything else. “So Jesus said to the Jews who had believed him, “If you abide in my word, you are truly my disciples, and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”” (John 8:31–32) Like Jesus, they must be in His Word and/or prayer, every moment they can be! For them it's not a duty, it's something they can't wait to do. They'd rather be in His Word or in prayer than anything else in or out of this world! Because of that, their minds have been completely renewed and they've been totally changed from the inside out. The 144,000 witnesses will prove that these scriptures are totally true: “His divine power has given us everything we need for life and godliness through our knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and goodness. Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature and escape the corruption in the world caused by evil desires.” (2 Peter 1:3–4)
Oh if only we could have realized that and walked with Him through this life instead of serving our own selfish interests. Talk about being victors instead of being victims.... But, at least we can be in His Word as much as we want to now.
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,588
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Post by fearnot on Mar 27, 2020 11:37:33 GMT -5
I am so glad you add to what I write because after an hour or so, I just get so tired and I wish I had the strength to hunt down and write more like.... about the first fruits
Sooooo, I am soooooo glad you did
thank you soooooo much :) :) :)
Did you just mean to say that they remained virgins for the sake of the kingdom of heaven?
Yes, I did!!
And this ( that you wrote) was so perfect for me!!! :
"Like Jesus, they ( the 144,000) must be in His Word and/or prayer, every moment they can be!
For them it's not a duty, it's something they can't wait to do.
They'd rather be in His Word or in prayer than anything else,
in
or
out of this world!
Because of that, their minds have been completely renewed and they've been totally changed from the inside out.
( there are some sins I have....'besetting' ones that have decreased greatly... but still come back to bite me, with the intention of killing me,
and for some reason this whole part of your post, which I 'knew' but did not know.... if you have any idea of what I mean.....is the answer, I believe.....
I have known this forever, and yet, on some level....still did not know it 100 percent.....
I do think that if I too could become waaaaaay more like these 144,000, (they must be in His Word and/or prayer, every moment they can be!
For them it's not a duty, it's something they can't wait to do.)
then, these besetting sins could go from 90% gone.... to 99% gone....I know in this life I will never be totally perfectly sin free.....only Jesus was....but it could be way better and being in God's word even more and more, is the answer it's like I went up a grade level from what I used to...being the the Bible but now, I need to go to college or grad school LOL)
you also wrote:
"The 144,000 witnesses will prove that these scriptures are totally true:
“His divine power has given us everything we need for life and godliness through our knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and goodness. Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature and escape the corruption in the world caused by evil desires.” (2 Peter 1:3–4)"
So thank you again.....your post was so timely for me!!!
Oh if only we could have realized that and walked with Him through this life instead of serving our own selfish interests. Talk about being victors instead of being victims.... But, at least we can be in His Word as much as we want to now.
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,588
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Post by fearnot on Mar 27, 2020 11:59:31 GMT -5
Now we come to 3 Angelic Messengers and here is the first one:
[smear:#e6192b]6 Then I saw another angel flying directly overhead, with an eternal gospel to proclaim to those who dwell on earth, to every nation and tribe and language and people. 7 And he said with a loud voice, “Fear God and give him glory, because the hour of his judgment has come, and worship him who made heaven and earth, the sea and the springs of water.”[/smear:#2319e6:2]
As an aside, with this Corina virus hitting the whole world, most everyone is anxious for things to get back to normal....perhaps this particular crisis will get better, and maybe things will get better for a time On the other hand, I personally would not hold my breath.... because, even IF things seem to be getting better ( and they may not tho) it will only be for a short time.... and how do I feel that is true? Because of what God says in His Word....things will get worse....way worse.....infinitely worse!! In fact, Isaiah tells us the final bad news....but also the best news:
[smear:#2819e6]"Lift up your eyes to the heavens, and look at the earth beneath; for the heavens vanish like smoke, the earth will wear out like a garment, and they who dwell in it will die in like manner; but my salvation will be forever, ... Isaiah 51:6[/smear:#e61941:2]
But since we are looking at the tribulation time, lets look at angelic involvement. These 3 angels have messages to give.
The first 3 will give messages of warning.
This angel ( not the first ever, of course) but just one of the ones that will be heard from,....
and he is going to be position to be well seen by the people's of the earth , and his message will be unobstructed.
Tho there has always been a battle going on of God's angels and the fallen demonic angels, however, there will be no obstruction allowed for this message....it is going to be heard!!!
I am thinking we are perhaps only getting a summary of what the angel will have to say.
Thus no one can say that this way not fulfilled ( I am thinking):
[smear:#9d217b] 14 "And this gospel of the kingdom will be proclaimed throughout the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come". Matthew 24:14[/smear:#19e643:2]
The gospel will be clear to everybody!!
He speaks with a loud voice, because his message is urgent!!
[smear:#214721]"The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom, and the knowledge of the Holy One is insight". Proverbs 9:10[/smear:#e619c8:0]
So is this a 'scare' tactic by this angel....well yes it is also the truth and also mercy
People who refuse God's love have reason to be afraid and those who accept His free gift get to worship him who made heaven and earth, the sea and the springs of water.
Like this verse reminds us:
[smear:#2fa33c]“You are the Lord, you alone. You have made heaven, the heaven of heavens, with all their host, the earth and all that is on it, the seas and all that is in them; and you preserve all of them; and the host of heaven worships you.". nehemiah 9:6[/smear:#e6197a:2]
The people need to wake up!! They have no problem worshiping the anti-Christ, and yet the devil did not create the Heaven and earth.
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Post by Cindy on Mar 28, 2020 9:51:34 GMT -5
I am so glad you add to what I write because after an hour or so, I just get so tired and I wish I had the strength to hunt down and write more like.... about the first fruits
Sooooo, I am soooooo glad you did
thank you soooooo much :) :) :)
Did you just mean to say that they remained virgins for the sake of the kingdom of heaven?
Yes, I did!!
And this ( that you wrote) was so perfect for me!!! :
"Like Jesus, they ( the 144,000) must be in His Word and/or prayer, every moment they can be!
For them it's not a duty, it's something they can't wait to do.
They'd rather be in His Word or in prayer than anything else,
in
or
out of this world!
Because of that, their minds have been completely renewed and they've been totally changed from the inside out.
( there are some sins I have....'besetting' ones that have decreased greatly... but still come back to bite me, with the intention of killing me,
and for some reason this whole part of your post, which I 'knew' but did not know.... if you have any idea of what I mean.....is the answer, I believe.....
I have known this forever, and yet, on some level....still did not know it 100 percent.....
I do think that if I too could become waaaaaay more like these 144,000, (they must be in His Word and/or prayer, every moment they can be!
For them it's not a duty, it's something they can't wait to do.)
then, these besetting sins could go from 90% gone.... to 99% gone....I know in this life I will never be totally perfectly sin free.....only Jesus was....but it could be way better and being in God's word even more and more, is the answer it's like I went up a grade level from what I used to...being the the Bible but now, I need to go to college or grad school LOL)
you also wrote:
"The 144,000 witnesses will prove that these scriptures are totally true:
“His divine power has given us everything we need for life and godliness through our knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and goodness. Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature and escape the corruption in the world caused by evil desires.” (2 Peter 1:3–4)"
So thank you again.....your post was so timely for me!!!
Oh if only we could have realized that and walked with Him through this life instead of serving our own selfish interests. Talk about being victors instead of being victims.... But, at least we can be in His Word as much as we want to now. I'm glad it was helpful to you!
Now we come to 3 Angelic Messengers and here is the first one:
[smear:#e6192b]6 Then I saw another angel flying directly overhead, with an eternal gospel to proclaim to those who dwell on earth, to every nation and tribe and language and people. 7 And he said with a loud voice, “Fear God and give him glory, because the hour of his judgment has come, and worship him who made heaven and earth, the sea and the springs of water.”[/smear:#2319e6:2]
As an aside, with this Corina virus hitting the whole world, most everyone is anxious for things to get back to normal....perhaps this particular crisis will get better, and maybe things will get better for a time On the other hand, I personally would not hold my breath.... because, even IF things seem to be getting better ( and they may not tho) it will only be for a short time.... and how do I feel that is true? Because of what God says in His Word....things will get worse....way worse.....infinitely worse!! In fact, Isaiah tells us the final bad news....but also the best news:
[smear:#2819e6]"Lift up your eyes to the heavens, and look at the earth beneath; for the heavens vanish like smoke, the earth will wear out like a garment, and they who dwell in it will die in like manner; but my salvation will be forever, ... Isaiah 51:6[/smear:#e61941:2]
But since we are looking at the tribulation time, lets look at angelic involvement. These 3 angels have messages to give.
The first 3 will give messages of warning.
This angel ( not the first ever, of course) but just one of the ones that will be heard from,....
and he is going to be position to be well seen by the people's of the earth , and his message will be unobstructed.
Tho there has always been a battle going on of God's angels and the fallen demonic angels, however, there will be no obstruction allowed for this message....it is going to be heard!!!
I am thinking we are perhaps only getting a summary of what the angel will have to say.
Thus no one can say that this way not fulfilled ( I am thinking):
[smear:#9d217b] 14 "And this gospel of the kingdom will be proclaimed throughout the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come". Matthew 24:14[/smear:#19e643:2]
The gospel will be clear to everybody!!
He speaks with a loud voice, because his message is urgent!!
[smear:#214721]"The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom, and the knowledge of the Holy One is insight". Proverbs 9:10[/smear:#e619c8:0]
So is this a 'scare' tactic by this angel....well yes it is also the truth and also mercy
People who refuse God's love have reason to be afraid and those who accept His free gift get to worship him who made heaven and earth, the sea and the springs of water.
Like this verse reminds us:
[smear:#2fa33c]“You are the Lord, you alone. You have made heaven, the heaven of heavens, with all their host, the earth and all that is on it, the seas and all that is in them; and you preserve all of them; and the host of heaven worships you.". Nehemiah 9:6[/smear:#e6197a:2]
The people need to wake up!! They have no problem worshiping the anti-Christ, and yet the devil did not create the Heaven and earth.
Good! I thought some might be interested in this as well: If the 144,000 witnesses of Rev 7 are the only evangelists at the beginning of the Trib, and they each win 1 convert to Christ every 10 weeks and then disciple them so that they can repeat the same cycle, this formula will reach (‘reach,’not ‘convert’) all the world’s population in 360 weeks (Rev reveals that the world’s population will be halved during the Trib). Here's the arithmetic; check it for yourself, and then ask why we don’t do the same before the Trib: 144,000 x 12 converts = 1,728 million saints after 120 weeks (2.3 years) 1,728 million x 12 converts = 20,736 million saints after 240 weeks (4.6 years) 20,736 million x 12 contacts = 2,488 billion souls contacted after 360 weeks (6.9 years). It seems to me there will be an exceptionally ready harvest of souls immediately after the rapture, so while our table is coldly mathematical, the trib period could well open with a vast host of converts, converts who would be fervently evangelistic, given the circumstances. So, in practice, the growth of the body of converts will not be a steady geometric progression, but will start with an explosive burst and thus make the objective of reaching the world in 7 years even more feasible than the table indicates. The Life of Christ
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,588
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Post by fearnot on Mar 28, 2020 11:30:35 GMT -5
That was an amazing math formula.....I am about the world's worse person in math..... but I did understand the exponential astronomical growth!!! :) Praise the Lord
And thank you for the post!!!!!
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,588
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Post by fearnot on Mar 28, 2020 12:36:11 GMT -5
So now we come to the 2nd angel in Chapter 14
[smear:#53b170]8 Another angel, a second, followed, saying, “Fallen, fallen is Babylon the great, she who made all nations drink the wine of the passion of her sexual immorality.” Revelation 14:8[/smear:#c84060:0]
This verse is one which could possibly confusing, in the sense of the word Babylon
We do hear of a city 'Babel' in the Old Testament:
[smear:#215b22]8 Cush fathered Nimrod; he was the first on earth to be a mighty man. 9 He was a mighty hunter before the Lord. Therefore it is said, “Like Nimrod a mighty hunter before the Lord.” 10 The beginning of his kingdom was Babel,....." Genesis 10:8-10 [/smear:#e65819:0]
Starting with Bab-el, this region has spawned many of the world’s pagan religions.
We have a city Babylon, in our life time, in the Middle East
But it speaks of it as being 'great' which points to arrogance ( I think) more than military or political power...
it is certainly possible that the the ancient city of Babylon may become the capital city of the Antichrist in the final kingdom....tho his image will be located in Jerusalem.
But it seems, the 'system ' will be called Babylon ....in its totality
Remember the tower of Babel.... the birthplace of idolatry
In Genesis we see what might have been Satan's first attempt at gaining a one world government and religion ( which worships him) Here are two verses in Genesis 11 to give us an idea:
[smear:#10a8a9]1 "Now the whole earth had one language and the same words."
4 Then they said, “Come, let us build ourselves a city and a tower with its top in the heavens, and let us make a name for ourselves, lest we be dispersed over the face of the whole earth.” Genesis 11:1,4[/smear:#e6d319:0]
It was there that men united under a false god, a false system of religious idolatry, and spiritual adultery. and then, it birthed and spread all worldwide false religion, where it all originated.
And, the verse says she made ALL the nation drink......of her sexual immorality. Well, I think we see actually physical sexual immorality already like never before ( the world never had the internet to have porn 24/7, nor music videos, movies and so on) So I am pretty sure in the godless tribulation times there will be sexual sin like the world has never known....
However, I think this is referring a to spiritual level of unfaithfulness to God and hatred toward God.
So this second angel proclaims judgment, this evil system will fall!!
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,588
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Post by fearnot on Mar 29, 2020 11:16:58 GMT -5
Now to the 3rd angel in Chapter 14
[smear:#5e2261]9 And another angel, a third, followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he also will drink the wine of God's wrath, poured full strength into the cup of his anger, and he will be tormented with fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever, and they have no rest, day or night, these worshipers of the beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name.” Revelation 14:9-11[/smear:#e64619:0]
This angel is pronouncing doom and damnation. The three angels have come in succession. But people have refused to hear, they have rejected the truth. it is not like anyone at this point can say: " I didn't know", or "I never heard " No everyone has heard the gospel truth at this point in the tribulation, and still choose, to reject it!!
Therefore because they have chosen to worship the anti-Christ, and his system, they will not only drink the wine of passion of immorality, but also, will drink the wine of God's wrath .
This reminds us of:
[smear:#041513]For in the hand of the Lord there is a cup with foaming wine, well mixed, and he pours out from it, and all the wicked of the earth shall drain it down to the dregs. Psalm 75:8 [/smear:#6e0f38:0]
or [smear:#e61927]".....you who have drunk from the hand of the Lord the cup of his wrath, who have drunk to the dregs the bowl, the cup of staggering. Isiah 51:17[/smear:#5019e6:1]
Or
[smear:#c3390a].......“Take from my hand this cup of the wine of wrath, and make all the nations to whom I send you drink it. 16 They shall drink and stagger and be crazed because of the sword that I am sending among them.” Jeremiah 25:15,16[/smear:#2e1976:0]
Only one person ever drank from this cup who did not deserve it...Jesus, and He did it for those who would believe in Him and would be saved.
Those who chose to drink of Satan's cup ( the anti-Christ's cup) will be held responsible and will be tormented with fire and sulfur....the torment of divine punishment.
It reminds us of:
[smear:#3b6a20]24 Then the Lord rained on Sodom and Gomorrah sulfur and fire from the Lord out of heaven. Genesis 19:24[/smear:#e6199b:2]
Only this will be forever....Those who worship the Beast and take his mark are irredeemable!!
[smear:#e3e619]48 ‘where their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched.’ Mark 9:48[/smear:#e62f19:0]
[smear:#140334]28 And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hel[/smear:#e61924:0]l Matthew 10:28
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Post by Cindy on Mar 30, 2020 8:53:28 GMT -5
That was an amazing math formula.....I am about the world's worse person in math..... but I did understand the exponential astronomical growth!!! :) Praise the Lord
And thank you for the post!!!!! You're welcome!
So now we come to the 2nd angel in Chapter 14
[smear:#53b170]8 Another angel, a second, followed, saying, “Fallen, fallen is Babylon the great, she who made all nations drink the wine of the passion of her sexual immorality.” Revelation 14:8[/smear:#c84060:0]
This verse is one which could possibly confusing, in the sense of the word Babylon
We do hear of a city 'Babel' in the Old Testament:
[smear:#215b22]8 Cush fathered Nimrod; he was the first on earth to be a mighty man. 9 He was a mighty hunter before the Lord. Therefore it is said, “Like Nimrod a mighty hunter before the Lord.” 10 The beginning of his kingdom was Babel,....." Genesis 10:8-10 [/smear:#e65819:0]
Starting with Bab-el, this region has spawned many of the world’s pagan religions.
We have a city Babylon, in our life time, in the Middle East
But it speaks of it as being 'great' which points to arrogance ( I think) more than military or political power...
it is certainly possible that the the ancient city of Babylon may become the capital city of the Antichrist in the final kingdom....tho his image will be located in Jerusalem.
But it seems, the 'system ' will be called Babylon ....in its totality
Remember the tower of Babel.... the birthplace of idolatry
In Genesis we see what might have been Satan's first attempt at gaining a one world government and religion ( which worships him) Here are two verses in Genesis 11 to give us an idea:
[smear:#10a8a9]1 "Now the whole earth had one language and the same words."
4 Then they said, “Come, let us build ourselves a city and a tower with its top in the heavens, and let us make a name for ourselves, lest we be dispersed over the face of the whole earth.” Genesis 11:1,4[/smear:#e6d319:0]
It was there that men united under a false god, a false system of religious idolatry, and spiritual adultery. and then, it birthed and spread all worldwide false religion, where it all originated.
And, the verse says she made ALL the nation drink......of her sexual immorality. Well, I think we see actually physical sexual immorality already like never before ( the world never had the internet to have porn 24/7, nor music videos, movies and so on) So I am pretty sure in the godless tribulation times there will be sexual sin like the world has never known....
However, I think this is referring a to spiritual level of unfaithfulness to God and hatred toward God.
So this second angel proclaims judgment, this evil system will fall!!
Well said! The Old testament speaks about this too: ““Announce and proclaim among the nations, lift up a banner and proclaim it; keep nothing back, but say, ‘Babylon will be captured; Bel will be put to shame, Marduk filled with terror. Her images will be put to shame and her idols filled with terror.’” (Jeremiah 50:2) “Babylon will suddenly fall and be broken. Wail over her! Get balm for her pain; perhaps she can be healed.” (Jeremiah 51:8) “Then say, ‘So will Babylon sink to rise no more because of the disaster I will bring upon her. And her people will fall.’ ” The words of Jeremiah end here.” (Jeremiah 51:64) “Look, here comes a man in a chariot with a team of horses. And he gives back the answer: ‘Babylon has fallen, has fallen! All the images of its gods lie shattered on the ground!’ ”” (Isaiah 21:9)
Now to the 3rd angel in Chapter 14
[smear:#5e2261]9 And another angel, a third, followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he also will drink the wine of God's wrath, poured full strength into the cup of his anger, and he will be tormented with fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever, and they have no rest, day or night, these worshipers of the beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name.” Revelation 14:9-11[/smear:#e64619:0]
This angel is pronouncing doom and damnation. The three angels have come in succession. But people have refused to hear, they have rejected the truth. it is not like anyone at this point can say: " I didn't know", or "I never heard " No everyone has heard the gospel truth at this point in the tribulation, and still choose, to reject it!!
Therefore because they have chosen to worship the anti-Christ, and his system, they will not only drink the wine of passion of immorality, but also, will drink the wine of God's wrath .
This reminds us of:
[smear:#041513]For in the hand of the Lord there is a cup with foaming wine, well mixed, and he pours out from it, and all the wicked of the earth shall drain it down to the dregs. Psalm 75:8 [/smear:#6e0f38:0]
or [smear:#e61927]".....you who have drunk from the hand of the Lord the cup of his wrath, who have drunk to the dregs the bowl, the cup of staggering. Isiah 51:17[/smear:#5019e6:1]
Or
[smear:#c3390a].......“Take from my hand this cup of the wine of wrath, and make all the nations to whom I send you drink it. 16 They shall drink and stagger and be crazed because of the sword that I am sending among them.” Jeremiah 25:15,16[/smear:#2e1976:0]
Only one person ever drank from this cup who did not deserve it...Jesus, and He did it for those who would believe in Him and would be saved.
Those who chose to drink of Satan's cup ( the anti-Christ's cup) will be held responsible and will be tormented with fire and sulfur....the torment of divine punishment.
It reminds us of:
[smear:#3b6a20]24 Then the Lord rained on Sodom and Gomorrah sulfur and fire from the Lord out of heaven. Genesis 19:24[/smear:#e6199b:2]
Only this will be forever....Those who worship the Beast and take his mark are irredeemable!!
[smear:#e3e619]48 ‘where their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched.’ Mark 9:48[/smear:#e62f19:0]
[smear:#140334]28 And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell[/smear:#e61924:0] Matthew 10:28
Very good!
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,588
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Post by fearnot on Mar 30, 2020 12:14:17 GMT -5
Now we are going to look at the Saints/believers who die during this time.
[smear:#19e620]12 Here is a call for the endurance of the saints, those who keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus.
13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying, “Write this: Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on.” “Blessed indeed,” says the Spirit, “that they may rest from their labors, for their deeds follow them!” Revelation 14:12,13[/smear:#e619b3:0]
Blessed are the dead seems strange to most people today, we know life is precious, and prefer to keep breathing.... however on the other hand
I am ( and many Christians) are reminded of these verses:
[smear:#e67619]6 So we are always of good courage. We know that while we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord, 7 for we walk by faith, not by sight. 8 Yes, we are of good courage, and we would rather be away from the body and at home with the Lord. 2 Corinthians 5:6-8[/smear:#19e648:0]
[smear:#aae619]21 For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain. 22 If I am to live in the flesh, that means fruitful labor for me. Yet which I shall choose I cannot tell. 23 I am hard pressed between the two. My desire is to depart and be with Christ, for that is far better. 24 But to remain in the flesh is more necessary on your account. Philippians 1:21-24[/smear:#9119e6:0]
Nevertheless, this is the tribulation and these believers show incredible faith endurance!! Nothing the anti-Christ does or throws at them makes them waver. Certainly there have been such faithful believers in history who have endured torture, imprisonment etc but the persecution against believers in tribulation will be the worst ever!! The fury of the devil is like never ever before! As it says in Matthew:
[smear:#4cb69c]21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, and never will be. 22 And if those days had not been cut short, no human being would be saved. But for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short. Matthew 24:21,22[/smear:#b66d0e:0]
These believers will persevere....that is a great encouragement to us even this very day. Their faith never died, even tho their bodies did ( or rather will die in the future). Their blessedness in death is due to how they lived.
Believers might have struggles now and then with faith, but if it's true faith, it cannot ever die, no matter how bad the times get. ( and here is the proof, because this will be the worst ever!!)
Which reminds us of this verse:
[smear:#872670]37 All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out. John 6:37[/smear:#dce619:0]
and this: [smear:#428ea8] 27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. John 10:27,28[/smear:#e61934:0]
I will have to work on again this tomorrow!!
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,588
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Post by fearnot on Mar 31, 2020 10:07:06 GMT -5
Back to the Saints:
[smear:#1e7232]12 Here is a call for the endurance of the saints, those who keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus.
13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying, “Write this: Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on.” “Blessed indeed,” says the Spirit, “that they may rest from their labors, for their deeds follow them!” Revelation 14:12,13[/smear:#e61988:0]
Some might wonder about people who made a one time confession of faith but then, turned away.
Most likely such people were never really saved, because here we see that these believers not only confessed Jesus as their Savior and Lord, they 'endured'. They did not run away, hid etc. This does not mean if a Christian does that, they are not saved, but it does mean, for the most part, they will endure, because their faith cannot be taken away.
But also these saints/believers did not just say a just say a one time prayer, and then never ever read their Bible, or obeyed God, but rather , they had a complete change, in how they lived, thought, acted, prioritized things etc etc. They will remain faithful by God's grace and their faith in Jesus.
[smear:#419297]“....If you abide in my word, you are truly my disciples" John 8:31[/smear:#879322:0]
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Post by Cindy on Mar 31, 2020 10:26:32 GMT -5
Now we are going to look at the Saints/believers who die during this time.
[smear:#19e620]12 Here is a call for the endurance of the saints, those who keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus.
13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying, “Write this: Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on.” “Blessed indeed,” says the Spirit, “that they may rest from their labors, for their deeds follow them!” Revelation 14:12,13[/smear:#e619b3:0]
Blessed are the dead seems strange to most people today, we know life is precious, and prefer to keep breathing.... however on the other hand
I am ( and many Christians) are reminded of these verses:
[smear:#e67619]6 So we are always of good courage. We know that while we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord, 7 for we walk by faith, not by sight. 8 Yes, we are of good courage, and we would rather be away from the body and at home with the Lord. 2 Corinthians 5:6-8[/smear:#19e648:0]
[smear:#aae619]21 For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain. 22 If I am to live in the flesh, that means fruitful labor for me. Yet which I shall choose I cannot tell. 23 I am hard pressed between the two. My desire is to depart and be with Christ, for that is far better. 24 But to remain in the flesh is more necessary on your account. Philippians 1:21-24[/smear:#9119e6:0]
Nevertheless, this is the tribulation and these believers show incredible faith endurance!! Nothing the anti-Christ does or throws at them makes them waver. Certainly there have been such faithful believers in history who have endured torture, imprisonment etc but the persecution against believers in tribulation will be the worst ever!! The fury of the devil is like never ever before! As it says in Matthew:
[smear:#4cb69c]21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, and never will be. 22 And if those days had not been cut short, no human being would be saved. But for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short. Matthew 24:21,22[/smear:#b66d0e:0]
These believers will persevere....that is a great encouragement to us even this very day. Their faith never died, even tho their bodies did ( or rather will die in the future). Their blessedness in death is due to how they lived.
Believers might have struggles now and then with faith, but if it's true faith, it cannot ever die, no matter how bad the times get. ( and here is the proof, because this will be the worst ever!!)
Which reminds us of this verse:
[smear:#872670]37 All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out. John 6:37[/smear:#dce619:0]
and this: [smear:#428ea8] 27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. John 10:27,28[/smear:#e61934:0]
I will have to work on again this tomorrow!!
Good one! I'll look forward to what you write next!
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,588
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Post by fearnot on Mar 31, 2020 11:23:00 GMT -5
1[smear:#e66919]2 Here is a call for the endurance of the saints, those who keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus.
13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying, “Write this: Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on.” “Blessed indeed,” says the Spirit, “that they may rest from their labors, for their deeds follow them!” Revelation 14:12,13[/smear:#19e65f:0]
You might wonder about people who repeated a prayer or walked up an aisle etc. but then never read a Bible, or followed anything in scripture etc. and then walked away from Christianity. Most likely, most of those people were never saved to begin with.
But these believers, have endured, stayed in God's Word, the Bible, and they have remained faithful and lived godly lives.
[smear:#142c47]“.....If you abide in my word, you are truly my disciples" John 8:31 [/smear:#19e6c3:0]
And besides their own faithfulness, and endurance, how is this done?
[smear:#78c231]"6 And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.Philippians 1:6[/smear:#e61959:0]
I cannot say, that absolutely no one who does not show obedience to God will, will not be saved, but it is my opinion, that in 99% of cases of believers, obedience is a major evidence of salvation:
[smear:#19e64d]"21 Whoever has my commandments and keeps them, he it is who loves me. And he who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him and manifest myself to him.” John 14:21[/smear:#e6b219:0]
So many in the world are independent rebels so that keeping 'rules' even God's rules ( or maybe especially God's rules) is a grievous task, an onus hindrance, a hated albatross, a thorn in their side, a stumbling stone to their fun etc etc.
But not so to those who love God:
[smear:#c819e6] 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. And his commandments are not burdensome. 1 John 5:3[/smear:#7ae619:0]
They ( these believers) trust ( and even often know for sure), that God's commandments, rules etc. are out of love, protection, to give peace, joy etc.
Just think of a youth ,who thinks it great fun to get drunk, high on drugs etc. and so it may be...........for a time until..... it is NOT! Until ... they are so sick, in pain both physically, mentally, emotionally, spiritually and are in an addicted bondage....
But furthermore, to do God's will gives a person a nobility, a purpose that counts for something, a peace that passes understanding, a joy that wallowing in the mud of this world cannot give.
and further:
P[smear:#e67619]recious in the sight of the Lord is the death of his saints. Psalms 116:15[/smear:#19e658:0]
also
[smear:#e61933]“Death is swallowed up in victory.” “O death, where is your victory? O death, where is your sting?” 1 Corinthians 15:55 [/smear:#1941e6:2]
By dying they gain everlasting joy, not to mention they are out of the tribulation!! And the deeds they have done for God will follow them....
[smear:#1b19e6]"For God is not unjust so as to overlook your work and the love that you have shown for his name in serving the saints, as you still do". Hebrews 6:10[/smear:#d0e619:2] [smear:#19e65d] 12 "And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done". Revelation 20:12[/smear:#c319e6:0]
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,588
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Post by fearnot on Apr 1, 2020 10:31:19 GMT -5
I can't help but think, how amazingly our world has changed in just a few months! I doubt many would have known how crazy things would become back in 2019....looking forward to April first 2020.... one might have thought it an early April's fool's day joke....only it's not.
But it should point out to people, things can change on a dime, if folks thought the world could not change so drastically as it has now.... this is just a very small preview of what will come in the tribulation
and now in Chapter 14 of Revelation, we see that.... Things continue to get worse with devastating judgment.
[smear:#e61975]14 Then I looked, and behold, a white cloud, and seated on the cloud one like a son of man, with a golden crown on his head, and a sharp sickle in his hand. 15 And another angel came out of the temple, calling with a loud voice to him who sat on the cloud, “Put in your sickle, and reap, for the hour to reap has come, for the harvest of the earth is fully ripe.” 16 So he who sat on the cloud swung his sickle across the earth, and the earth was reaped." Revelation 14:14-16[/smear:#4c19e6:3]
That this judgment is coming has been warned about in scripture before:
[smear:#e68a19]“You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the wrath to come? Matthew 3:7[/smear:#19e675:0]
[smear:#b7ac0f]18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. Romans 1:18[/smear:#3719e6:2]
God has been long suffering, full of mercy, love and grace, because of His desire that all should repent and be saved, but now that has finally drawn to a close, because He knows that no more will come. His mercy has held judgment back but justice must come.
A crown depicts THE ruler, ( Jesus I think) The sickle symbolizes judgment for the harvest of wrath [smear:#b73d13] "Therefore I will make the heavens tremble, and the earth will be shaken out of its place, at the wrath of the Lord of hosts in the day of his fierce anger. Isaiah 13:13[/smear:#21948e:0]
[smear:#27e619]9 "Proclaim this among the nations: Consecrate for war; stir up the mighty men. Let all the men of war draw near; let them come up.
12 Let the nations stir themselves up and come up to the Valley of Jehoshaphat; for there I will sit to judge all the surrounding nations.
13 Put in the sickle, for the harvest is ripe. Go in, tread, for the winepress is full. The vats overflow, for their evil is great."
Joel 3:9,12,13[/smear:#ba19e6:0]
God has allowed the wicked and the believers to grow and live together, but the day is coming when that will no longer be the case.
We see this in the parable Jesus told...here it is in part:
[smear:#91030f]".............................27 And the servants of the master of the house came and said to him, ‘Master, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have weeds?’ 28 He said to them, ‘An enemy has done this.’ So the servants said to him, ‘Then do you want us to go and gather them?’ 29 But he said, ‘No, lest in gathering the weeds you root up the wheat along with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest, and at harvest time I will tell the reapers, “Gather the weeds first and bind them in bundles to be burned, but gather the wheat into my barn.” Matthew 13:27-30[/smear:#7005a1:0]
This would be a harvest of wrath.... We are shown tho, two versions of this a grain harvest and then the grape harvest. So we will look at these a bit more tomorrow.
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Post by Cindy on Apr 1, 2020 11:00:22 GMT -5
1[smear:#e66919]2 Here is a call for the endurance of the saints, those who keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus.
13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying, “Write this: Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on.” “Blessed indeed,” says the Spirit, “that they may rest from their labors, for their deeds follow them!” Revelation 14:12,13[/smear:#19e65f:0]
You might wonder about people who repeated a prayer or walked up an aisle etc. but then never read a Bible, or followed anything in scripture etc. and then walked away from Christianity. Most likely, most of those people were never saved to begin with.
But these believers, have endured, stayed in God's Word, the Bible, and they have remained faithful and lived godly lives.
[smear:#142c47]“.....If you abide in my word, you are truly my disciples" John 8:31 [/smear:#19e6c3:0]
And besides their own faithfulness, and endurance, how is this done?
[smear:#78c231]"6 And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.Philippians 1:6[/smear:#e61959:0]
I cannot say, that absolutely no one who does not show obedience to God will, will not be saved, but it is my opinion, that in 99% of cases of believers, obedience is a major evidence of salvation:
[smear:#19e64d]"21 Whoever has my commandments and keeps them, he it is who loves me. And he who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him and manifest myself to him.” John 14:21[/smear:#e6b219:0]
So many in the world are independent rebels so that keeping 'rules' even God's rules ( or maybe especially God's rules) is a grievous task, an onus hindrance, a hated albatross, a thorn in their side, a stumbling stone to their fun etc etc.
But not so to those who love God:
[smear:#c819e6] 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. And his commandments are not burdensome. 1 John 5:3[/smear:#7ae619:0]
They ( these believers) trust ( and even often know for sure), that God's commandments, rules etc. are out of love, protection, to give peace, joy etc.
Just think of a youth ,who thinks it great fun to get drunk, high on drugs etc. and so it may be...........for a time until..... it is NOT! Until ... they are so sick, in pain both physically, mentally, emotionally, spiritually and are in an addicted bondage....
But furthermore, to do God's will gives a person a nobility, a purpose that counts for something, a peace that passes understanding, a joy that wallowing in the mud of this world cannot give.
and further:
P[smear:#e67619]recious in the sight of the Lord is the death of his saints. Psalms 116:15[/smear:#19e658:0]
also
[smear:#e61933]“Death is swallowed up in victory.” “O death, where is your victory? O death, where is your sting?” 1 Corinthians 15:55 [/smear:#1941e6:2]
By dying they gain everlasting joy, not to mention they are out of the tribulation!! And the deeds they have done for God will follow them....
[smear:#1b19e6]"For God is not unjust so as to overlook your work and the love that you have shown for his name in serving the saints, as you still do". Hebrews 6:10[/smear:#d0e619:2] [smear:#19e65d] 12 "And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done". Revelation 20:12[/smear:#c319e6:0]
Good, but why would you say that you cannot say, that absolutely no one who does not show obedience to God will, will not be saved, but it is my opinion, that in 99% of cases of believers, obedience is a major evidence of salvation: when even the scriptures you posted show that they're not saved? While it's true that we all will sin at times, actually, we sin daily; so maybe that's what you were thinking of? What the Bible says though is that someone who's normal way of life is to obey the Lord, even though there are times they fail to do so, that person is saved. However someone who's normal way of life is to disobey the Lord, although there may be times when it's in their own best interests so they'll obey Him then, those people are not saved. Obviously if they repent, they can still be saved, but not unless they truly repent and mean to obey the Lord at all times.
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,588
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Post by fearnot on Apr 1, 2020 11:39:30 GMT -5
Yes, I was thinking how sometimes a true believer, can for whatever excuse walk away from God in a snit ( maybe a loved one died that they had prayed fervently for or whatever) or just the fact, believers do sin everyday.....
Some sin more than others
So I personally cannot know which ones really have a heart to follow God... but yet sin and It would be impossible for me to know, but God does know.
But tho I might 'think' someone who seems to 'obey' all of God's 'rules' ( a legalist) who does so for some kind of gain, that I might be unaware of
I might think they are saved by their godly behavior and 'obedience' but.... their 'obedience' would not be out of their love for God
at the same time, some other person might truly love the Lord, and want to please God and obey Him, but fails way more than he or she wants....
would be the truly the saved Christian
( and their sins will lessen with God's help sooner or later.....prayerfully sooner)
I think I was thinking kind of along those lines
but true obedience out of a heart which loves God is a proof of salvation.
And the other thing was ( the 1%) maybe??? was the thief on the cross who was saved....he could not be obedient physically or do anything for God's sake on the cross....except of course, to believe on Jesus ( but I was thinking, more about not being physically obedient) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Oh... once again, I am working on today's study so it is above your post for today!!!
Should I copy and bring it down when that happens or just tell you and you will find it? I will leave this one above and not copy and bring it down.... today
but once I know what you prefer....that I will do
I just am not sure if a sort of 'double' post' is a good thing or not?
Which if I bring it down.... someone might read my first post...above your post...
and however much extra, I am writing on now they will not read because they will see the same words again
and think it is a double post and not notice the 'extra' that has been added to it????
Or I could erase the above your latest post so it would be just blank? and then, bring it down below your post and complete it?
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Post by Cindy on Apr 2, 2020 10:34:20 GMT -5
Back to the Saints:
[smear:#1e7232]12 Here is a call for the endurance of the saints, those who keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus.
13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying, “Write this: Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on.” “Blessed indeed,” says the Spirit, “that they may rest from their labors, for their deeds follow them!” Revelation 14:12,13[/smear:#e61988:0]
Some might wonder about people who made a one time confession of faith but then, turned away.
Most likely such people were never really saved, because here we see that these believers not only confessed Jesus as their Savior and Lord, they 'endured'. They did not run away, hid etc. This does not mean if a Christian does that, they are not saved, but it does mean, for the most part, they will endure, because their faith cannot be taken away.
But also these saints/believers did not just say a just say a one time prayer, and then never ever read their Bible, or obeyed God, but rather , they had a complete change, in how they lived, thought, acted, prioritized things etc etc. They will remain faithful by God's grace and their faith in Jesus.
[smear:#419297]“....If you abide in my word, you are truly my disciples" John 8:31[/smear:#879322:0]
Yes, good. Jesus told us that we could tell whether someone was saved by their fruit. In other words, we aren't to look for one specific thing, but at their overall life. So if someone who we had seen was changing and was consistently growing in their faith, (we could see more love, peace, joy, faithfulness, gentleness, etc in them) but as you suggested, their loved one died and they turned away from the Lord; then we would know that this wouldn't last, that they would return to the Lord eventually. On the other hand if it was someone who had supposedly been saved a few years ago, and yet the only thing anyone could say that changed was that they now went to church on Sundays, then when they turned away from the Lord when a loved one died, we would know that they had never been saved to start with.
I can't help but think, how amazingly our world has changed in just a few months! I doubt many would have known how crazy things would become back in 2019....looking forward to April first 2020.... one might have thought it an early April's fool's day joke....only it's not.
But it should point out to people, things can change on a dime, if folks thought the world could not change so drastically as it has now.... this is just a very small preview of what will come in the tribulation
and now in Chapter 14 of Revelation, we see that.... Things continue to get worse with devastating judgment.
[smear:#e61975]14 Then I looked, and behold, a white cloud, and seated on the cloud one like a son of man, with a golden crown on his head, and a sharp sickle in his hand. 15 And another angel came out of the temple, calling with a loud voice to him who sat on the cloud, “Put in your sickle, and reap, for the hour to reap has come, for the harvest of the earth is fully ripe.” 16 So he who sat on the cloud swung his sickle across the earth, and the earth was reaped." Revelation 14:14-16[/smear:#4c19e6:3]
That this judgment is coming has been warned about in scripture before:
[smear:#e68a19]“You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the wrath to come? Matthew 3:7[/smear:#19e675:0]
[smear:#b7ac0f]18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. Romans 1:18[/smear:#3719e6:2]
God has been long suffering, full of mercy, love and grace, because of His desire that all should repent and be saved, but now that has finally drawn to a close, because He knows that no more will come. His mercy has held judgment back but justice must come.
A crown depicts THE ruler, ( Jesus I think) The sickle symbolizes judgment for the harvest of wrath [smear:#b73d13] "Therefore I will make the heavens tremble, and the earth will be shaken out of its place, at the wrath of the Lord of hosts in the day of his fierce anger. Isaiah 13:13[/smear:#21948e:0]
[smear:#27e619]9 "Proclaim this among the nations: Consecrate for war; stir up the mighty men. Let all the men of war draw near; let them come up.
12 Let the nations stir themselves up and come up to the Valley of Jehoshaphat; for there I will sit to judge all the surrounding nations.
13 Put in the sickle, for the harvest is ripe. Go in, tread, for the winepress is full. The vats overflow, for their evil is great."
Joel 3:9,12,13[/smear:#ba19e6:0]
God has allowed the wicked and the believers to grow and live together, but the day is coming when that will no longer be the case.
We see this in the parable Jesus told...here it is in part:
[smear:#91030f]".............................27 And the servants of the master of the house came and said to him, ‘Master, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have weeds?’ 28 He said to them, ‘An enemy has done this.’ So the servants said to him, ‘Then do you want us to go and gather them?’ 29 But he said, ‘No, lest in gathering the weeds you root up the wheat along with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest, and at harvest time I will tell the reapers, “Gather the weeds first and bind them in bundles to be burned, but gather the wheat into my barn.” Matthew 13:27-30[/smear:#7005a1:0]
This would be a harvest of wrath.... We are shown tho, two versions of this a grain harvest and then the grape harvest. So we will look at these a bit more tomorrow.
Well done! Yes, I was thinking how sometimes a true believer, can for whatever excuse walk away from God in a snit ( maybe a loved one died that they had prayed fervently for or whatever) or just the fact, believers do sin everyday.....
Some sin more than others
So I personally cannot know which ones really have a heart to follow God... but yet sin and It would be impossible for me to know, but God does know.
But tho I might 'think' someone who seems to 'obey' all of God's 'rules' ( a legalist) who does so for some kind of gain, that I might be unaware of
I might think they are saved by their godly behavior and 'obedience' but.... their 'obedience' would not be out of their love for God
at the same time, some other person might truly love the Lord, and want to please God and obey Him, but fails way more than he or she wants....
would be the truly the saved Christian
( and their sins will lessen with God's help sooner or later.....prayerfully sooner)
I think I was thinking kind of along those lines
but true obedience out of a heart which loves God is a proof of salvation.
And the other thing was ( the 1%) maybe??? was the thief on the cross who was saved....he could not be obedient physically or do anything for God's sake on the cross....except of course, to believe on Jesus ( but I was thinking, more about not being physically obedient) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Oh... once again, I am working on today's study so it is above your post for today!!!
Should I copy and bring it down when that happens or just tell you and you will find it? I will leave this one above and not copy and bring it down.... today
but once I know what you prefer....that I will do
I just am not sure if a sort of 'double' post' is a good thing or not?
Which if I bring it down.... someone might read my first post...above your post...
and however much extra, I am writing on now they will not read because they will see the same words again
and think it is a double post and not notice the 'extra' that has been added to it????
Or I could erase the above your latest post so it would be just blank? and then, bring it down below your post and complete it?
I replied about telling if someone was saved at the start of today's post. I saw that you hadn't finished your post or at least I assumed you probably hadn't and skipped it on purpose. I've only been replying to posts that say they were posted at least 20 hours before. No, don't do anything like that. What you could do that would help though is when you do finish a post, simply say at the very end of it something like, "I'm done for today so I'll see you tomorrow" or something like that. I will only reply to posts that have that at the end. If it's not at the end, I'll skip it that day and wait till the next day to check it again and see if you're done with it. Then I'll reply to it if you've put that sentence at the bottom. OK?
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,588
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Post by fearnot on Apr 2, 2020 11:49:09 GMT -5
Great idea!! When I am done, I will say so :)
Cool, I knew you might have a good solution.....
because I can just see myself getting into all sorts of troubles, trying to erase posts, and repost posts etc.
and no doubt, it would be just a matter of time,
and I would make a mistake, end up voiding the one I wanted to keep and then... I would be sooooo frustrated and sad...
not to mention MAD LOLOL
Today's post 'might' be a little strange I have a 'general' idea when my doctor is to call for a phone appointment
but even the nurse said, yet today he is NOT a doctor who looks at his watch and says:
Okay your 15 mins is up..... nooooo he has never been known for that
he almost always takes however long it takes with each patient
Sooooo I have a general idea that he will call around 11:20 my time
But if I am in the middle of a thought writing and he calls.... when ever....
I 'might' forget what my thought was..... ( when I get back to whatever I was saying/writing)
Just so you know, if it seems choppy, or thoughts unfinished
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