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Post by Cindy on Jan 12, 2023 13:20:19 GMT -5
Subud. Danger!!! Once a very secretive New Age cult, Subud is now expanding and becoming more open, and no longer hides its teachings behind password-protected web sites. (A cynic would say they've realised they don't need to – people will fall for anything.) Subud was founded in the 1920s in Java, Indonesia by Muhammad Subuh Sumohadiwidjojo (b. 1901, d. 1987), who is normally called Bapak ("Father") by Subud members. There are a little over 200 members in NZ (as of mid 2007), with about 90 in Christchurch led by Hammond Peek; most of the rest in Auckland. There are perhaps 10,000 members worldwide.
The name Subud comes from the three words Susila ("the good character of man in accordance with the will of God"), Budhi ("the force of the inner self within man"), and Dharma ("surrender, trust and sincerity towards God"), and is not related to Subuh ("dawn"). The founder expected members to pay 3-5% of their income to the cult (but they can also have many supposed financial crises to respond to each year) and expected members' enterprises (businesses) to pay 25%. These are not enforced – indeed, most Subud members have not heard of those figures, perhaps indicating that Subud's teaching that Subud has no teaching is working – the members have never been taught what their founder said. (Hiding of origins is actually a big problem in many cults, but most don't have self-contradiction at their core.)
The founder's daughter took over leadership when her father died. From Indonesia she picks names for many children and some adults, which helps reinforce group identity (another sign Subud is a cult). This leader is considered to have all the power of her father, who proclaimed himself to be a Christ-like/Muhammad-like figure and was believed by some to be the second coming of Christ. [Can anyone see anything wrong with that belief? Hint: He's now dead. – Editor.]
Central to Subud practice is the latihan – an occult activity like transcendental meditation which according to Dr Stephen Urlich, a Christchurch scientist who wrote an article published in a journal of the American Psychological Association, involves “uninhibited weeping, shouting, writhing, moaning and speaking in tongues” and that “Laughing, jumping and dancing can occur”. Compare this with Kundalini. A Christian perspective is that this activity involves channeling demons that masqerade as either angels of light, the Holy Spirit, or even Christ himself to reveal supposed truth to the Subud member. Nasty. Some Subud members call the latihan "getting opened" which is appropriate for an activity that involves opening oneself to demonic manipulation. Subud has been known to practice strong relationship control, and in a 1964 study cited by Dr Urlich, 24 cases linked Subud to "schizophrenic episodes requiring hospitalisation". This has been referred to as "Subud Syndrome" by a Subud supporting correspondent, who attempted to play it down by implying it was nothing special because "all religious experience can become traumatic for vulnerable people". This is not true of most religious experience and is strong evidence of cultic practice when it occurs.
Like many New Age groups and practices, Subud in particular appears to primarily appeal to those for whom rational thought is not a high priority, meaning that feelings are far more important to them than clear logical thought is. (For example, one Subud member has emailed us claiming black and white can be the same thing because they're both colours.) This combined with the experiences of the Latihan means that it can be very hard to convince a Subud member just how bad it is – they feel it is right, therefore as far as they are concerned it is. Subud is here rated Danger for its heavily New Age theology, its very occult practices, its strongly self-contradictory teachings, and its risk of psychological damage.
www.cults.co.nz/s.php
I can see why this cult is getting so much more attention these days since they are more prone to think their feelings are very important which is the opposite of what God tells us. I'll explain in what ways this cult goes against the clear teaching of scripture tomorrow, God willing! Maybe that will keep some unsuspecting person away from this group!
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Post by Cindy on Jan 13, 2023 11:57:56 GMT -5
Well, let's see what the Bible says about this cults beliefs.
“And do not call anyone on earth ‘father,’ for you have one Father, and he is in heaven.” (Matthew 23:9)I honestly don't know how anyone who knows God's Word, could follow something started by a person who said he was the second coming of Christ! Jesus tells us that in the end times (which began when He ascended into heaven and will continue until He comes again) there will be many who will call themselves Christ.“At that time if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or, ‘Look, there he is!’ do not believe it. For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform signs and miracles to deceive the elect—if that were possible.” (Mark 13:21–22) “At that time if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or, ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect—if that were possible. See, I have told you ahead of time. “So if anyone tells you, ‘There he is, out in the desert,’ do not go out; or, ‘Here he is, in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.” (Matthew 24:23–27)They call it like it is, but I still want to show what the Bible says and add my own two cents here. First, about transcendental meditation as well as other meditation techniques that are so popular today: Today's popular techniques tell you to empty your mind. They often use something like a mantra for you to focus on so your mind can be empty of everything else. Others have you focus on a "special place" inside yourself, or maybe some nature scene. They're all supposed to get you to empty your mind, which is totally against scripture. Instead, God tells us to be in control of our thoughts and emotions at al times. We are to meditate on scripture or on God (on His attributes or character). Here's what the Apologetics Bible Commentary says: There is a distinct difference between Christian and New Age forms of meditation. In Christian meditation, the believer’s mind is actively engaged and focuses on the Word of God. The believer is always conscious and never seeks a mystical experience of direct contact with God. New Age meditators, on the other hand, attempt to empty their minds through repetitious chanting or yogic breathing exercises. For them the goal is to experience oneness with the universe or attain God-consciousness. The Apologetics Study Bible: Real Questions, Straight Answers, Stronger Faith. Here are a couple of many scriptures about this:
“Within your temple, O God, we meditate on your unfailing love.” (Psalm 48:9)
“I will meditate on all your works and consider all your mighty deeds.” (Psalm 77:12) Now let's look at what happens when they do their kind of mediation:
I have never understood how some Pentecostals and this group can think things like this are caused by the Holy Spirit. My family goes to a Pentecostal church and they would most stop anyone who did any of these things, and take them into a Sunday school room and explain to them that the Holy Spirit would never do these things and show them the scriptures that show this. First we are told that Jesus, the Father, and the Holy Spirit are One; that we have One God, not three of them. Here's a sample of scriptures to show this:
“Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever.” (Hebrews 13:8)
“I the LORD do not change.” (Malachi 3:6)
“Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one.” (Deuteronomy 6:4)
“If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.” Philip said, “Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us.” Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you are not just my own. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work.” (John 14:7–10)
Jesus said that by knowing Him, we would know the Father, because they're "One". The same is true of the Holy Spirit. Therefore if we have seen Jesus do or say something, we can be sure that the Father and the Holy Spirit would do or say that same thing; and if Jesus wouldn't do or say something, than neither would they. Jesus did not fall down or practice “uninhibited weeping, shouting, writhing, moaning" and I can't imagine Him ever doing so for any reason. Why? Because if Jesus did those things, it would make God into a liar! Because the fruit of God's Spirit is "self control"! “But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires. Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit.” (Galatians 5:22–25) Let's deal with what they call "speaking in tongues" now. During the age when Jesus was on the earth, pagan religions used all kinds of methods to "worship" their gods (which scripture tells us were actually demons). Their methods included "speaking in tongues". Like meditation, their method for this too is totally against scripture as is the result. When pagans spoke in tongues, they spoke gibberish that had no meaning at all and never would except in their imaginations. They said the gods took over and made them speak that way. Can you see Jesus causing people to speak gibberish that had no meaning? I can't. When the apostles spoke in tongues for the first time and every time after that, they were speaking another language that people in other countries spoke, but that they had never studied. Not only were they speaking another human language, but they spoke about Jesus and told others about the good news concerning Him. How do we know this? Because scripture says so: “Utterly amazed, they asked: “Are not all these men who are speaking Galileans? Then how is it that each of us hears them in his own native language? Parthians, Medes and Elamites; residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya near Cyrene; visitors from Rome (both Jews and converts to Judaism); Cretans and Arabs—we hear them declaring the wonders of God in our own tongues!”” (Acts 2:7–11) This is true for every time they spoke in tongues because the Holy Spirit used this to show the apostles that Greeks and other pagans were to be part of the Church. So when people got saved, they spoke in the tongues of other languages that they hadn't studied, which proved to the apostles that God had indeed saved them and made them part of the church. The only people wo spoke gibberish (which they actually called "the tongues of heaven" or the language of heaven). Secondly, there is very little of the real tongues being spoken today and most of it happens in 3rd world countries in areas that have never heard the gospel before. All of this “uninhibited weeping, shouting, writhing, moaning and speaking in tongues and laughing, jumping and dancing” is caused either by demons or our sin nature, often by our feelings, which God tells us not to trust.
“The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure.” (Jeremiah 17:9) “The hearts of men, moreover, are full of evil and there is madness in their hearts while they live, and afterward they join the dead.” (Ecclesiastes 9:3) When the Bible uses the words "heart" or "mind" they usually mean both. It's obvious in the context when they're only speaking about one or the other. The reason is that in the original language the word used for heart and the word used for mind is one and the same. God tells us that we are not to trust our emotions and that the only way we can know if something is true is to test it by scripture. If it agrees with scripture than it's true, if not, it's false. We are also told that we are to be in control of our thoughts and feelings and not be controlled by them. The world and Satan want us to believe that we can't control our thoughts and feelings, but as usual, that's a lie.
Yes, I'm sure everyone would be aware that many cults practice control over relationships within the cult.
This schizophrenic stuff is scary! Let's see what else is said about it:
This week Subud was roundly criticized in an article published in a journal of the American Psychological Association by Dr Stephen Urlich. He raised concerns about the psychological effects of one of the group's cornerstone practices, the latihan (training). His article raises concerns about depression, hallucinations and violent behaviour allegedly linked to Subud and participation in the latihan, reported in overseas cases. It quotes a 1964 study of 24 cases known as "Subud crises", including schizophrenic episodes requiring hospitalization, soon after Subud's arrival in England in the 1950s. Urlich also fears that children raised in Subud households face potential identity conflicts, and family rejection, if they choose not to join as young adults. culteducation.com/information/8670-christchurch-group-rejects-cult-claim.html
It seems rather obvious that the practice of latihan after “getting opened” in Subud is inconsistent with Catholicism (and with other Christian faiths, as well). That the founder of that cult was believed by some to be the second coming of Jesus Christ should certainly turn inconsistency into absolute dichotomy. wtpotus.wordpress.com/2014/01/23/some-thoughts-on-subud/
I'd like to include some posts from another message board that are about subud. Keep in mind though that the people who posted are not necessarily Christians. So they may not know or understand what God says about all of this.
Welcome to Cult Education Institute message board. There are some
discussions of Subud here. People born into Subud families report having borne a great deal of pain. What added to it was being heavily acculturated that any complaint, no matter how bad the situation was wrong, evidence of weakness or ingratitude. All very convenient for bullies and snobbish cults such as Subud.
Can tell you about what happened to my father if you want. He had just tried the latihan and it led directly to his death at 39 years old with 6 children. The story must say something about Subud as Bapak (and Bennett) were there at Coombe when it happened.
I am an ex Subud member too. We were in Subud for 10 yrs in Australia ( 1974 to 1984) and know all the foundational older members. I am so glad we finally were able to break free from this very destructive and dangerous cult.
I left Subud almost 14 years ago, and there are still ways which that experience has caused me long-term damage.
Subud members passionately deny it's a cult. It's taken me such a long time to understand the exhausting mindset of members. They'll say things like, "we're not a cult because we don't have consensus on anything," whilst failing to understand that there is almost complete consensus on the idea that Subud can't be a cult because there is no consensus! It takes very little effort to conceal another relentless logic flaw ("there are no rules, but men and women do latihan separately. There are no rules, but women must wear skirts to latihan. There are no rules, but eating refined sugar puts you under the influence of nafsu. There are no rules, but God told the helpers to tell you that you're in the wrong job / degree program / relationship. You don't have to change your name and convert to Islam, but many people choose to.").
The psychologist Janja Lalich wrote a book on Bounded Choice, and I believe this is absolutely true of Subud. It's not that anyone is necessarily forced to do anything. It's just that all the options for doing anything else get slowly removed, until we elect to do what was expected of us all along, and believe it was our choice. Worse still, the entire narrative structure of Subud is designed to make us lose faith in our own decision-making. We come to believe we're under the influence of 'lower' forces, and so cannot trust our own hearts and minds. So we consciously surrender our desires and intellectual rigour, and leave our decision-making in the hands of God, helpers, or random luck.
The most tragic thing about Subud is that the narrative is so destructive that it becomes like a healthy immune system attacking itself. We attack any shred of doubt, hope, desire, longing, anger, or injustice as it arises in ourselves. We don't need external people to control us because we become self-policing. We don't need to be yelled at to become pure, because we yell at our own lack of purity. There is an endless confession culture, particularly through testing, but we want to participate in it. So we end up making all of these dysfunctional, illogical choices and watch our lives fall apart over and over, whilst feeling confused and trying to find the lesson God is trying to teach. We look at all the loss and tragedy and wonder what microscopic thing we did wrong, or what we are supposed to learn, or when this perfect path we are on will finally make sense. When it never does, we keep blaming ourselves and striving harder to figure out what we did wrong.
I used to find it infuriating, but now I see it as a tragedy. People have died in Subud by ending up in places where they never should have been.
Subud is entirely self-policing now. I think it is a cult, but it's a very different sort of cult to many. It's full of well-meaning wealthy intellectuals and creatives who are just lost, and this lostness manifests in all sorts of ways. Many of those ways can be quite beautiful and positive. Others are chaotic and unintentionally self-destructive. Some are flatly, utterly abusive, but the abusiveness becomes hidden and publicly disavowed. Survivors and dissenting voices are not believed because there is this idea that we are all on an individual path, and so our experiences are our own.
I grew up being told that I had "consented" to every experience on this earth long before I was born. That my parents weren't my real parents, but only my spiritual caretakers. My parents didn't even choose my name. They had no connection to me, no protective instinct. They weren't interested in helping me to thrive, they assumed I'd just take care of myself. The levels of emotional neglect can be astonishing -- love is just a distant feeling, and we often grow up feeling completely alone in the world. This makes us desperate to please a confusing and contradictory God in lieu of pleasing our confusing and contradictory parents.
Maybe the emotional neglect of children is far, far worse in Subud than in more stereotypical cults. At least in the burlap sackcloth style of cult, someone might notice if you're missing from bible study. But in Subud it is the very idea of an individual journey -- that specific story that makes most members convinced it's not a cult -- which stops anyone from intervening or even noticing when something's going wrong. Actually, no, that's pretty standard cult behaviour, isn't it. Sadly this all too often turns into physical neglect and abuse.
Subud is just... sad. I'm not even angry at it anymore. I'm just heartbroken for all the lives that have been diverted and destroyed.
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I was born into subud. One parent heavily involved with this group, and still is. For decades. The other parent not in subud but complicit in abuse and neglect.
It has been a revelation that this group is indeed a bona fide cult. Having been born into it, I was brainwashed early to believe there was nothing unhealthy or odd about how these people operate. The neglect of children by the lost souls who come into this cult is tragic and very real. I believe that by and large, the people who join into this cult are simply lost. They have been abused as children and cannot love in healthy ways. Or they were abused by a prior religion and are looking for a haven.
I have crystal clear memories from childhood of witnessing these people. Even as a young child, I felt angry at being sidelined for this cult. It was a particular slap in the face to be told I was responsible for everything in my life, and that I had chosen my parents. I am so grateful to be far away from these people. They are truly lost.
I came into Subud from a Roman Catholic background and the simplicity of Subuds ethos greatly attracted me after RC's ritualism and remoteness and the painful experiences that religion had caused me. Subud seemed to have all the answers. Personal contact with God, spiritual experiences and a loving supportive community. Even it seemed a question and answer section ie 'testing' that seemed infallible! At the end of 8 long years with another two of painful withdrawals Subud had shattered all my dreams. The latihan or spiritual exercise that was Bapaks supposed "contact" with Almighty God and which I had put all my faith and security in had dismally failed me in every way. The people had disappointed me and the teachings had so locked up my brain I was a mess. There was no way out except to talk to my father in heaven which in desperation I did. This father I believed I was talking to was my physical father who had passed away 4 yrs previously and whom I believed (still using my default as a Roman Catholic) was in heaven.
That little talk changed my life and set me on a path I have never looked back from. In that talk I poured out my heart, regrets and all my confusion to my father. Little did I realize that my father in heaven did most certainly hear but it was the big boss, our heavenly father who was really listening! Wow how could I have known!
I went to the empty RC Church the next day, sat in the back and cried out in my mind "Where are you God?" in desperation! So clearly do I remember this plea! I left the RC Church that day not knowing what to do or where to go. I had 4 little children and a husband whacked out on drugs and doing all sorts of crazy stuff as a result of Subud beliefs and pushing me to the brink of leaving him.
I did end up leaving him briefly but we reconciled. This was a "Subud" marriage ordained by "testing". The most important decisions of my life up to that point had been guided not by "thinking' and considering carefully and wisely in consultation with older or more experienced or qualified persons my decisions but by an esoteric practice called 'testing" which you would probably be aware of no doubt.
This testing had had devastating results on my life as we wandered here and there all over the place merely being guided by "testing'.I was at the mercy of it and also at the mercy of my husband's "authority". In Sudud's heavily based Islamic teachings the husband ruled the household. This influence became even more pronounced when one "became" or converted to Islam as we had early on.
Subud Muslims were different from your ordinary Muslim though. It was more a cultural thing where you took on the beliefs, kept the annual Ramadhan or part thereof but the spiritual side (prayers ect) was mainly kept through practising the latihan. Women wore long dresses etc and the men ruled their families absolutely though this was tempered to some degree by western influences in western countries. This led to a lot of abuses I think and in my case certainly.
Christianity freed me from this oppression and imbalance as it showed me that although there is an established order within God's house and family, persons are accountable for their behaviour according to set standards. Abuses of these set standards of behaviour disqualify people automatically. It disqualifies them in all sorts of ways such as in leadership, authority or relationship both personally and in a group setting. It's not like there are people roaming around like policeman enforcing these standards. It doesn't work like that in Christianity. Yes you can have organized churches and denominations but when it comes down to it, it is your life and the fruit (love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, self-control ect Galatians 5:22-23)it brings forth that is the proof God is truly in your life, a sobering thought and a very accountable and trustworthy principle.
Christianity works by the Spirit of God ( true love ie the love of God) and God's Word ( the written Word of God ie the Bible). And the mediator between God and man in Christianity is the man Jesus Christ and not Bapak! Christian faith and practice is based on a personal relationship initiated by belief in Christ as the spotless sinless Son of God and his once for all time sacrifice and death on the Cross for your sins and his victorious resurrection and now present rule and reign over this earth and in the heart of every believer. This set me free entirely.
Bapak set himself up virtually as Jesus Christ. He taught he himself was the fulfillment of a perfect human being. He taught Jesus was the seed, Muhammad the boy and he himself was the complete man. The 'Nafsu'(or lower forces) Bapak taught have an equivalent in Christianity known as the carnal or flesh nature. Many of Bapaks teachings have a Christian equivalent which does make it appear in effect a counterfeit of true Christianity to any well studied Christian. The latihan replaces the sacrifice of Christ for sins as Subud people believe and were taught by Bapak that it is the 'latihan' that is cleansing and purifying them into ' perfect human beings. Christians believe however and are taught by the bible that Christs sacrifice or blood has paid for all our sins and continues to pay for our sins as each believer in heartfelt conviction and repentance for sin turn to God through Christ for forgiveness and cleansing on an ongoing basis. Sin is something they are shown in themselves by Gods Spirit or that they see in the Word as they measure their actions by the standards set there in the Bible. Christians believe in 'Justification by Faith' which means Christ's righteousness is given to them and covers their sin as they by faith accept and believe in him and his sacrifice for their sin.
It's so true what you say about Subud's denial they have no teachings when they absolutely do! Bapak had many many teachings and talks which were collated into endless tapes and booklets which many devout followers listened to diligently and followed particularly in the earlier days. These words of Bapaks were Subud peoples ' spiritual food' so to speak just like the bible is a Christians spiritual food or nourishment. However this mantra of "no teachings" comes from the Muslim connection here I believe. I was told Bapak had to be very careful living in a Muslim country that he did not appear to be teaching contradictory teachings to Islam. This would have got him into trouble I was told with the religious and civil authorities there in Indonesia.
Anyway that's enough for now,
forum.culteducation.com/read.php?5,141354
Wow! is all I can say! I suggest that if you read this and want to keep this information about this cult, that you copy this post and then paste it into a private message addressed to yourself, or to a word document that you can save on your computer. Since I haven't asked permission to copy these posts from this message board, I may not be allowed to keep them here.
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Post by sevenofnine on Jan 13, 2023 12:23:20 GMT -5
Sound like kinda cult Dugger family not as new agey as this cult BOY neglect of children they not allow report abuse I don't know about you guys that red flags for me because as eductor I be dropping the dime on these parents YIKES!!
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