fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383 
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Post by fearnot on Aug 10, 2021 13:39:37 GMT -5
My words are in this color
Bible scripture in this color
and other people's words in this color
This seems like a good time and season to study this issue concerning the unsaved,
how they think and why do they think the way they do,
especially as we speed ever closer to the end times
and the world is getting crazier,and more divided by the day.
One verse that comes to mind, to start with is:
"In their case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers,
to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ,
who is the image of God".
2 Corinthians 4:4
One thing, that we notice, is that believers and unbelievers are in two opposing kingdoms,
and the people in each kingdom have different beliefs, attitudes, goals, principals, and look at life from very different lens.
Believers know who their God is, but unbelievers are often unaware they have a 'god' also, and tho they are ultimately responsible for their sins, their god does add to their blindness and rebellion, against the true God.
so this verse would point to this, I believe:
"We know that we are from God,
and the whole world lies in the power of the evil one".
I John 5:19
The evil one is also know as Satan, the devil, the most powerful of the fallen angels.
Perhaps you have heard the old saying:
'You are what you think'
This is a truism,
what a person's core beliefs, and thoughts, and perspective
of the world, life and God, is
will greatly impact who they are.
Some of the unsaved do not think they believe in any god,
they call themselves atheists
They therefore do not believe there is life after death,
and thus do not live this life, having an eternal perspective.
I think that almost all atheists do however believe in evolution,
random chance, the big bang, 'science' and often survival of the fittest etc.
Since they do not believe in a creator God, they can live their lives
(so they think)
Anyway they feel is best for them, and do not have to be accountable.
Even though everything in this world and even the universe,
is incredibly complex, irreducibly complex, mathematically complex etc.
so that these verses are true, they are blinded to the truth
"19 For what can be known about God is plain to them,
because God has shown it to them.
20 For his invisible attributes, namely,
his eternal power and divine nature,
have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world,
in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.
21 For although they knew God,
they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him,
but they became futile in their thinking,
and their foolish hearts were darkened.
22 Claiming to be wise, they became fools
Romans 1:19-22
They are willfully without gratitude to the very God who made them,
and they are proud as they consider themselves to having superior intellects,
because they believe is science
( one of their 'gods' who can never be wrong).
If they feel gratefulness, it would be for themselves and their 'great intellect'.
But the truth is they are fools.
They tend to believe that:
nothing
and nobody
( rather a random cosmic accident: the big bang)
plus a lot of time,
chance,
created everything.
So chance created the material world in their thinking.
Chance is the Creator in their belief system.
So no one has to be held accountable to chance for how they live.
But even more strange is their militant antagonist scorn against God and believers.
More on this tomorrow
Done for today.
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Post by Cindy on Aug 11, 2021 9:37:25 GMT -5
Very well done!
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
|
Post by fearnot on Aug 11, 2021 10:59:09 GMT -5
Oh wow...thank you Cindy
I made a real effort to pray first
usually nine times out of te,n
I would also pray before writing
I mean before we stopped to deal with my issues,
butevery once in awhile, I would forget to pray
I really missed doing these studies :)
Last night I did not get much sleep at all
so prayfully, my brain will work
But seriously...sometimes...
when I pray first
I am truly amazed because, I am certain,
God the Holy Spirit has helped,
because, I might think to myself,
what verse would be demonstrate ( this or that)?
and God brings one to mind
But I had not really 'planned' that in advance
and I think to myself
Wow.....I could not have thought of that ( not, all by myself)
So thank you...
I was kind of thinking it went together pretty well :)
but then,
I always tend to start doubting myself
and actually God also, (it the truth be known),
because if I pray,
that whatever I write,
gives God the glory .
and His Holy spirit helps me...
then to doubt what I wrote ....
is doubting God as well
I do make mistakes of course...of course
but then, that's why I have you LOL :)
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
|
Post by fearnot on Aug 11, 2021 11:22:58 GMT -5
My words are in this color
Bible scripture in this color
and other people's words in this color
As I mentioned yesterday,
the unsaved are often atheists
( I will look at those unsaved, who believe false religions another day)
So a verse to start with today is:
"The fool says in his heart, “There is no God.”
They are corrupt, they do abominable deeds;
there is none who does good.
Psalm 14:1
And this verse:
21 For although they knew God,
they did not honor him as God
or give thanks to him,
but they became futile in their thinking,
and their foolish hearts were darkened.
22 Claiming to be wise, they became fools,
Romans 1:21-22
What this means is their minds are confused and debased.
They may 'think' they are 'wise',
however they are lacking true knowledge
because as God says in His word:
"The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge;
fools despise wisdom and instruction".
Proverbs: 1:7
32 and you will know the truth,
and the truth will set you free.”
John 8:32
This is also often the case:
Always learning
and never able to arrive at
a knowledge of the truth.
2 Timothy 3:7
Truth and knowledge,
is only through having awe and fear of God.
Since the atheists claim there is no God
they believe in 'humanism',
which, I think,
is more or less,
making humans, an idol,
to worship ( worshiping yourself).
Plus, since they believe in evolution,
most humanistic atheists believe,
mankind is evolving always to a higher state of being.
They see themselves as basically 'good'
and evolving and getting better.
But the Bible puts the truth of 'humanism/mankind this way:
10 as it is written:
“None is righteous, no, not one;
11 no one understands;
no one seeks for God.
12 All have turned aside; together they have become worthless;
no one does good,
not even one.”
13 “Their throat is an open grave;
they use their tongues to deceive.”
“The venom of asps is under their lips.”
14 “Their mouth is full of curses and bitterness.”
15 “Their feet are swift to shed blood;
16 in their paths are ruin and misery,
17 and the way of peace they have not known.”
18 “There is no fear of God before their eyes.”
Romans 3: 10-18
For the most part, they are unaware
that God says this about the proud and their pride:
"Pride goes before destruction,
and a haughty spirit before a fall".
Proverbs 16:18
Also:
Scoffer is the name of the arrogant,
haughty man who acts with arrogant pride.
Proverbs 21:24
And this:
I will punish the world for its evil,
and the wicked for their iniquity;
I will put an end to the pomp of the arrogant,
and lay low the pompous pride of the ruthless.
Isaiah 13:11
I just keep falling asleep
so I will stop for today,
but I would like to look at this verse ( below)
a bit more closely
As I think it fits the title well concerning:
how the unsaved think:
Always learning
and never able to arrive at
a knowledge of the truth.
2 Timothy 3:7
Unbelievers, in their conceit,
trust or surmise, that the human mind is supreme...
( they refuse to acknowledge the all knowing mind of God)....
So therefore, they believe the human mind,
is the ultimate decider in what is true.
But God says this to them:
For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
neither are your ways my ways, declares the Lord.
9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
so are my ways higher than your ways
and my thoughts than your thoughts.
Isaiah 55:8,9
Done for today
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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Post by fearnot on Aug 12, 2021 12:35:02 GMT -5
My words are in this color
Bible scripture in this color
and other people's words in this color
Unbelievers, the unsaved, tend to think they are evolving ( intellectually and spiritually)
some even think they are a god, or will be a god in the future.
Again this verse is key to the way they think:
Woe to those who call evil good
and good evil,
who put darkness for light
and light for darkness,
who put bitter for sweet
and sweet for bitter!
Isaiah 5:20
It does not take long to notice
that anything God says in the Bible
is roundly contradicted by the unsaved unbelieving atheist!
You can count on it like clockwork!
I should point out that even the belief of man as a kind of 'god'
perhaps soon to be immortal,
and all knowing.... via transhumanism
( as proposed by people like Elon Musk,
and his nuralink brain chip to technology
or
uploading your brain and merging with AI and/or robotics )
22 Claiming to be wise, they became fools,
Romans 1:22
They believe the opposite of this ,
the absolute Truth:
God who IS all knowing,
all powerful,
eternal, infinite etc.
had to lower and humble Himself,
As Jesus the Son,
so He could pay the price for our sins
and we could go to Heaven and live with Him forever.
Just a quick look at the headlines today
will show their flip-flop
or everything God says:
Some examples would be:
Denying what God says in the Bible,
concerning how many sexes ( or genders)
there are:
So God created man in his own image,
in the image of God he created him;
male and female he created them.
Genesis 1:27
The unsaved say:
not so
you can be whatever sex or gender YOU choose,
and,
all people must summit to your delusions
and call you by whatever pronoun 'you' choose!
( oh by the way, this is acting like God...
'you' get to decide how many sexes or genders there are)
The unsaved are becoming militant and in some case, even violent
about demanding that you buy into, bow down to, and submit to,
their delusions and lies.
Of course, Satan is thrilled with their debased,
wacky, deranged, preposterous mentally unstable, sinful fantasies.
4 In their case
the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers,
to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel
of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.
2 Corinthians 4:4
They even are pushing very very young children into
not only believing:
a boy can be a girl, or girl a boy...
But even worse,
this ungodly thinking often is insisting on all manner of
medical procedures like:
puberty blockers,
( which risks low bone density as one side effect
and not to mention,
the blocker Lupron was used for 'chemical castration'
for sex offenders..
which some unsaved would think is a terrible to do to grown men,
but is okay for a young child)
cross sex hormones, ( which can make for infertility)
removal of sex organs, mastectomy etc.
many of these 'medical' helps for 'trans' children
are often irreversible
Oh and we even saw in the Olympics
trans men competing in woman's sports
Further these men who 'think' they are women,
insist on being able to use woman's public bathrooms,
locker rooms, and prison areas...
( male felons are applying to be transferred to woman's prison units
www.breitbart.com/politics/2021/04/05/261-transgender-prisoners-request-transfer-under-california-law-255-to-womens-prison/
Another way they think that is against what God has ordained is:
the family....
as defined by God:
one mother and one father and their children.
Rather, unbelievers, state:
a 'loving' family can be any kind of combination pf sexes or genders
in any numerical numbers like for example:
5 men can be a family unit with their adopted children
or 5 woman
or any mix of the sexes
or any of the now,
over 100 genders.
If God says anything in the Bible,
you can be almost certain the unbeliever will be
against it.
Now this I say and testify in the Lord,
that you must no longer walk as the Gentiles do,
in the futility of their minds.
Ephesians 4:17
They believe in 'FREEDOM' to do whatever they want.
What they call freedom is actually rebellion against God,
They revel in being rebels!
You have been rebellious against the Lord from the day that I knew you.
Deuteronomy 9:24
They relish in the 'freedom of the wide gate
so many options, not 'narrow'.
13 “Enter by the narrow gate.
For the gate is wide
and the way is easy that leads to destruction,
and those who enter by it are many.
Matthew 7:13
More on the way they think tomorrow
Done for today.
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Post by Cindy on Aug 13, 2021 10:04:33 GMT -5
Oh wow...thank you Cindy
I made a real effort to pray first
usually nine times out of te,n
I would also pray before writing
I mean before we stopped to deal with my issues,
butevery once in awhile, I would forget to pray
I really missed doing these studies :)
Last night I did not get much sleep at all
so prayfully, my brain will work
But seriously...sometimes...
when I pray first
I am truly amazed because, I am certain,
God the Holy Spirit has helped,
because, I might think to myself,
what verse would be demonstrate ( this or that)?
and God brings one to mind
But I had not really 'planned' that in advance
and I think to myself
Wow.....I could not have thought of that ( not, all by myself)
So thank you...
I was kind of thinking it went together pretty well :)
but then,
I always tend to start doubting myself
and actually God also, (it the truth be known),
because if I pray,
that whatever I write,
gives God the glory .
and His Holy spirit helps me...
then to doubt what I wrote ....
is doubting God as well
I do make mistakes of course...of course
but then, that's why I have you LOL :)
My words are in this color
Bible scripture in this color
and other people's words in this color
As I mentioned yesterday,
the unsaved are often atheists
( I will look at those unsaved, who believe false religions another day)
So a verse to start with today is:
"The fool says in his heart, “There is no God.”
They are corrupt, they do abominable deeds;
there is none who does good.
Psalm 14:1
And this verse:
21 For although they knew God,
they did not honor him as God
or give thanks to him,
but they became futile in their thinking,
and their foolish hearts were darkened.
22 Claiming to be wise, they became fools,
Romans 1:21-22
What this means is their minds are confused and debased.
They may 'think' they are 'wise',
however they are lacking true knowledge
because as God says in His word:
"The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge;
fools despise wisdom and instruction".
Proverbs: 1:7
32 and you will know the truth,
and the truth will set you free.”
John 8:32
This is also often the case:
Always learning
and never able to arrive at
a knowledge of the truth.
2 Timothy 3:7
Truth and knowledge,
is only through having awe and fear of God.
Since the atheists claim there is no God
they believe in 'humanism',
which, I think,
is more or less,
making humans, an idol,
to worship ( worshiping yourself).
Plus, since they believe in evolution,
most humanistic atheists believe,
mankind is evolving always to a higher state of being.
They see themselves as basically 'good'
and evolving and getting better.
But the Bible puts the truth of 'humanism/mankind this way:
10 as it is written:
“None is righteous, no, not one;
11 no one understands;
no one seeks for God.
12 All have turned aside; together they have become worthless;
no one does good,
not even one.”
13 “Their throat is an open grave;
they use their tongues to deceive.”
“The venom of asps is under their lips.”
14 “Their mouth is full of curses and bitterness.”
15 “Their feet are swift to shed blood;
16 in their paths are ruin and misery,
17 and the way of peace they have not known.”
18 “There is no fear of God before their eyes.”
Romans 3: 10-18
For the most part, they are unaware
that God says this about the proud and their pride:
"Pride goes before destruction,
and a haughty spirit before a fall".
Proverbs 16:18
Also:
Scoffer is the name of the arrogant,
haughty man who acts with arrogant pride.
Proverbs 21:24
And this:
I will punish the world for its evil,
and the wicked for their iniquity;
I will put an end to the pomp of the arrogant,
and lay low the pompous pride of the ruthless.
Isaiah 13:11
I just keep falling asleep
so I will stop for today,
but I would like to look at this verse ( below)
a bit more closely
As I think it fits the title well concerning:
how the unsaved think:
Always learning
and never able to arrive at
a knowledge of the truth.
2 Timothy 3:7
Unbelievers, in their conceit,
trust or surmise, that the human mind is supreme...
( they refuse to acknowledge the all knowing mind of God)....
So therefore, they believe the human mind,
is the ultimate decider in what is true.
But God says this to them:
For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
neither are your ways my ways, declares the Lord.
9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
so are my ways higher than your ways
and my thoughts than your thoughts.
Isaiah 55:8,9
Done for today
My words are in this color
Bible scripture in this color
and other people's words in this color
Unbelievers, the unsaved, tend to think they are evolving ( intellectually and spiritually)
some even think they are a god, or will be a god in the future.
Again this verse is key to the way they think:
Woe to those who call evil good
and good evil,
who put darkness for light
and light for darkness,
who put bitter for sweet
and sweet for bitter!
Isaiah 5:20
It does not take long to notice
that anything God says in the Bible
is roundly contradicted by the unsaved unbelieving atheist!
You can count on it like clockwork!
I should point out that even the belief of man as a kind of 'god'
perhaps soon to be immortal,
and all knowing.... via transhumanism
( as proposed by people like Elon Musk,
and his nuralink brain chip to technology
or
uploading your brain and merging with AI and/or robotics )
22 Claiming to be wise, they became fools,
Romans 1:22
They believe the opposite of this ,
the absolute Truth:
God who IS all knowing,
all powerful,
eternal, infinite etc.
had to lower and humble Himself,
As Jesus the Son,
so He could pay the price for our sins
and we could go to Heaven and live with Him forever.
Just a quick look at the headlines today
will show their flip-flop
or everything God says:
Some examples would be:
Denying what God says in the Bible,
concerning how many sexes ( or genders)
there are:
So God created man in his own image,
in the image of God he created him;
male and female he created them.
Genesis 1:27
The unsaved say:
not so
you can be whatever sex or gender YOU choose,
and,
all people must summit to your delusions
and call you by whatever pronoun 'you' choose!
( oh by the way, this is acting like God...
'you' get to decide how many sexes or genders there are)
The unsaved are becoming militant and in some case, even violent
about demanding that you buy into, bow down to, and submit to,
their delusions and lies.
Of course, Satan is thrilled with their debased,
wacky, deranged, preposterous mentally unstable, sinful fantasies.
4 In their case
the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers,
to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel
of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.
2 Corinthians 4:4
They even are pushing very very young children into
not only believing:
a boy can be a girl, or girl a boy...
But even worse,
this ungodly thinking often is insisting on all manner of
medical procedures like:
puberty blockers,
( which risks low bone density as one side effect
and not to mention,
the blocker Lupron was used for 'chemical castration'
for sex offenders..
which some unsaved would think is a terrible to do to grown men,
but is okay for a young child)
cross sex hormones, ( which can make for infertility)
removal of sex organs, mastectomy etc.
many of these 'medical' helps for 'trans' children
are often irreversible
Oh and we even saw in the Olympics
trans men competing in woman's sports
Further these men who 'think' they are women,
insist on being able to use woman's public bathrooms,
locker rooms, and prison areas...
( male felons are applying to be transferred to woman's prison units
www.breitbart.com/politics/2021/04/05/261-transgender-prisoners-request-transfer-under-california-law-255-to-womens-prison/
Another way they think that is against what God has ordained is:
the family....
as defined by God:
one mother and one father and their children.
Rather, unbelievers, state:
a 'loving' family can be any kind of combination pf sexes or genders
in any numerical numbers like for example:
5 men can be a family unit with their adopted children
or 5 woman
or any mix of the sexes
or any of the now,
over 100 genders.
If God says anything in the Bible,
you can be almost certain the unbeliever will be
against it.
Now this I say and testify in the Lord,
that you must no longer walk as the Gentiles do,
in the futility of their minds.
Ephesians 4:17
They believe in 'FREEDOM' to do whatever they want.
What they call freedom is actually rebellion against God,
They revel in being rebels!
You have been rebellious against the Lord from the day that I knew you.
Deuteronomy 9:24
They relish in the 'freedom of the wide gate
so many options, not 'narrow'.
13 “Enter by the narrow gate.
For the gate is wide
and the way is easy that leads to destruction,
and those who enter by it are many.
Matthew 7:13
More on the way they think tomorrow
Done for today.
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
|
Post by fearnot on Aug 13, 2021 12:02:03 GMT -5
I am so glad you wrote others have had the same or similar experience.
It really does seem like once in awhile, I am amazed and wonder....who wrote that?
But then, I thank God, because, I could not have put it together that way on my own.
And yes, I too had these same thoughts, ideas, principals etc.
when I was unsaved
( and also it did push depression and even suicidal thoughts).
Like you I Thank the Lord for rescuing me from that and for showing me in His word how to change my thoughts to be more like Yours!
The more I do this,
the happier, more peace filled, more joyful, etc. I am.
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
|
Post by fearnot on Aug 13, 2021 12:20:41 GMT -5
My words are in this color
Bible scripture in this color
and other people's words in this color
I forgot a few more things concerning what the unsaved think about: family.
One of their sayings today is:
'It takes a village to raise a child'.
Again, this idea, is opposed to God saying,
in the Bible:
it's the mother's and father's job to raise the child.
4 Fathers, do not provoke your children to anger,
but bring them up in the discipline and instruction of the Lord.
Ephesians 6:4
This is not to say, grandparents,
other family members, teachers, and other people
don't have some influence....
However, the main job belongs to the parents....
Train up a child in the way he should go;
even when he is old he will not depart from it.
Proverbs 22:6
The responsibly does NOT belong to,
the whole community, or a village, or government.
Along with this idea of a village as children's 'parents,
some unbelievers state:
that children belong to the state.
Instead God says the parents should do this:
6 And these words that I command you today shall be on your heart
7 You shall teach them diligently to your children,
and shall talk of them when you sit in your house,
and when you walk by the way,
and when you lie down, and when you rise.
Deuteronomy 6:6,7
Why would unbelievers be against parents raising children?
Because for one thing, it's because it is what God said
( anything God says they are against for the most part).
The unsaved, do not want saved parents,
teaching their children what God says about anything,
especially, about sin.
They do not want to feel uncomfortable about their sins,
rather:
32 Though they know God's righteous decree that
those who practice such things deserve to die,
they not only do them
but give approval to those who practice them.
Romans 1:32
and also
19 And this is the judgment:
the light has come into the world,
and people loved the darkness
rather than the light
because their works were evil.
John 3:19
I had an acquaintance/friend,
who got her PHD from Yale.
I read a post on her blog a few years ago,
where she vented that:
Christians parents, should be arrested,
and put in prison, for 'child abuse',
because they taught their children precepts, principles etc.
from the Bible.
Oh, and she went on to write,
the children should be re-educated
and raised by the state ( government).
“Ah, stubborn children,” declares the Lord,
“who carry out a plan, but not mine,
and who make an alliance, but not of my Spirit,
that they may add sin to sin;
Isaiah 30:1
Unbelievers, the unsaved, refuse to believe in God,
They refuse to repent of their sins, ( rather they love their sins).
they reject the truth ( God's word, the Bible)
and therefore refuse to follow anything in His Word,
instead they choose falsehoods.
I will continue tomorrow,
Done for today.
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
|
Post by fearnot on Aug 14, 2021 14:44:21 GMT -5
My words are in this color
Bible scripture in this color
and other people's words in this color
I thought I would look at what the unsaved believe should and should not be taught,
to children in public school educations, and the real reason why they think that way.
Firstly, they believe to be 'fair',
( to other religions and to atheists)....
everything taught to children,
must not mention God, or God's word the Bible,
nor God as the Creator of the universe,
and the Creator everything in it,
or Christianity.
So that, in fact,
this is what is happening,
They suppress the truth:
The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven
against all the godlessness and wickedness of people,
who suppress the truth
by their wickedness,
Romans 1:18
The only option then, is to teach the universe is:
a cosmic accident,
via the big bang,
and
anything living is a chemical accident,
and
people are basically:
rearranged pond scum.
However, those theories,
are types of true insanity and depravity!
The information and complexity,
that goes into the creation of a human
is so far beyond a 'bunch of accidents',
mutations, evolution etc.
as to be a foolish belief,
but however it is the only one available,
if you wish to avoid being held accountable to an all knowing,
all powerful, Holy and just Creator.
20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—
his eternal power and divine nature—
have been clearly seen,
being understood from what has been made,
so that people are without excuse.
Romans 1:20
It ought to be evident,
that if humans are just 'bags of chemicals'......
then to hold to any type of moral high ground,
is inconsistent logic.
Chemistry just does what it does,
there is not right or wrong.
But of course, atheistic educator have all manner of 'morals'
they wish to teach children:
like CRT...but more on that later.
Another area the unsaved indoctrinate children about,
in education is environmentalism.
( way beyond the Biblical mandate to be good stewards)
This is because the worship the creation,
rather than the Creator.
They exchanged the truth about God for a lie,
and worshiped and served created things
rather than the Creator—
who is forever praised. Amen.
Romans 1:25
Why would they want to do these things:
If they can teach a whole generation folly
and falsehood,
especially trying to convince children there is no God,
they will never have to feel guilt about their sins.
So they demand 'science' is the only 'god'
and that is the only truth...
but science is what we can see, what is observable,
and reproducible,
it does not take us to observe the beginning
nor explain miracles,
nor how super complex information came from nothing,
nor irreducible complexity, nor personality,
nor repair systems, nor reproduction systems, etc. etc. etc.
Rather:
The fool says in his heart,
“There is no God.”
They are corrupt, their deeds are vile;
there is no one who does good.
Psalm 14:1
and
20 Where is the wise person?
Where is the teacher of the law?
Where is the philosopher of this age?
Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world?
1 Corinthians 1:20
Done for Today
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Post by Cindy on Aug 16, 2021 9:36:38 GMT -5
I am so glad you wrote others have had the same or similar experience.
It really does seem like once in awhile, I am amazed and wonder....who wrote that?
But then, I thank God, because, I could not have put it together that way on my own.
And yes, I too had these same thoughts, ideas, principals etc.
when I was unsaved
( and also it did push depression and even suicidal thoughts).
Like you I Thank the Lord for rescuing me from that and for showing me in His word how to change my thoughts to be more like Yours!
The more I do this,
the happier, more peace filled, more joyful, etc. I am.
My words are in this color
Bible scripture in this color
and other people's words in this color
I forgot a few more things concerning what the unsaved think about: family.
One of their sayings today is:
'It takes a village to raise a child'.
Again, this idea, is opposed to God saying,
in the Bible:
it's the mother's and father's job to raise the child.
4 Fathers, do not provoke your children to anger,
but bring them up in the discipline and instruction of the Lord.
Ephesians 6:4
This is not to say, grandparents,
other family members, teachers, and other people
don't have some influence....
However, the main job belongs to the parents....
Train up a child in the way he should go;
even when he is old he will not depart from it.
Proverbs 22:6
The responsibly does NOT belong to,
the whole community, or a village, or government.
Along with this idea of a village as children's 'parents,
some unbelievers state:
that children belong to the state.
Instead God says the parents should do this:
6 And these words that I command you today shall be on your heart
7 You shall teach them diligently to your children,
and shall talk of them when you sit in your house,
and when you walk by the way,
and when you lie down, and when you rise.
Deuteronomy 6:6,7
Why would unbelievers be against parents raising children?
Because for one thing, it's because it is what God said
( anything God says they are against for the most part).
The unsaved, do not want saved parents,
teaching their children what God says about anything,
especially, about sin.
They do not want to feel uncomfortable about their sins,
rather:
32 Though they know God's righteous decree that
those who practice such things deserve to die,
they not only do them
but give approval to those who practice them.
Romans 1:32
and also
19 And this is the judgment:
the light has come into the world,
and people loved the darkness
rather than the light
because their works were evil.
John 3:19
I had an acquaintance/friend,
who got her PHD from Yale.
I read a post on her blog a few years ago,
where she vented that:
Christians parents, should be arrested,
and put in prison, for 'child abuse',
because they taught their children precepts, principles etc.
from the Bible.
Oh, and she went on to write,
the children should be re-educated
and raised by the state ( government).
“Ah, stubborn children,” declares the Lord,
“who carry out a plan, but not mine,
and who make an alliance, but not of my Spirit,
that they may add sin to sin;
Isaiah 30:1
Unbelievers, the unsaved, refuse to believe in God,
They refuse to repent of their sins, ( rather they love their sins).
they reject the truth ( God's word, the Bible)
and therefore refuse to follow anything in His Word,
instead they choose falsehoods.
I will continue tomorrow,
Done for today.
My words are in this color
Bible scripture in this color
and other people's words in this color
I thought I would look at what the unsaved believe should and should not be taught,
to children in public school educations, and the real reason why they think that way.
Firstly, they believe to be 'fair',
( to other religions and to atheists)....
everything taught to children,
must not mention God, or God's word the Bible,
nor God as the Creator of the universe,
and the Creator everything in it,
or Christianity.
So that, in fact,
this is what is happening,
They suppress the truth:
The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven
against all the godlessness and wickedness of people,
who suppress the truth
by their wickedness,
Romans 1:18
The only option then, is to teach the universe is:
a cosmic accident,
via the big bang,
and
anything living is a chemical accident,
and
people are basically:
rearranged pond scum.
However, those theories,
are types of true insanity and depravity!
The information and complexity,
that goes into the creation of a human
is so far beyond a 'bunch of accidents',
mutations, evolution etc.
as to be a foolish belief,
but however it is the only one available,
if you wish to avoid being held accountable to an all knowing,
all powerful, Holy and just Creator.
20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—
his eternal power and divine nature—
have been clearly seen,
being understood from what has been made,
so that people are without excuse.
Romans 1:20
It ought to be evident,
that if humans are just 'bags of chemicals'......
then to hold to any type of moral high ground,
is inconsistent logic.
Chemistry just does what it does,
there is not right or wrong.
But of course, atheistic educator have all manner of 'morals'
they wish to teach children:
like CRT...but more on that later.
Another area the unsaved indoctrinate children about,
in education is environmentalism.
( way beyond the Biblical mandate to be good stewards)
This is because the worship the creation,
rather than the Creator.
They exchanged the truth about God for a lie,
and worshiped and served created things
rather than the Creator—
who is forever praised. Amen.
Romans 1:25
Why would they want to do these things:
If they can teach a whole generation folly
and falsehood,
especially trying to convince children there is no God,
they will never have to feel guilt about their sins.
So they demand 'science' is the only 'god'
and that is the only truth...
but science is what we can see, what is observable,
and reproducible,
it does not take us to observe the beginning
nor explain miracles,
nor how super complex information came from nothing,
nor irreducible complexity, nor personality,
nor repair systems, nor reproduction systems, etc. etc. etc.
Rather:
The fool says in his heart,
“There is no God.”
They are corrupt, their deeds are vile;
there is no one who does good.
Psalm 14:1
and
20 Where is the wise person?
Where is the teacher of the law?
Where is the philosopher of this age?
Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world?
1 Corinthians 1:20
Done for Today
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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Post by fearnot on Aug 16, 2021 11:46:30 GMT -5
Your comment made me think:
I guess that is why grand parents
are called grandparents....
because they are 'parents'.
Which reminded me of Naomi in the Bible
( a grandmother)
who gain a 'son'
via Ruth...
Naomi was a 'grandmother'
kind of
( Boaz was her husband's nearest relative)
So through Boaz and Ruth
and the baby was considered her 'son'.
and your other comment:
Another good one!
So, based on what you've written, does the fact of someone being unsaved
mean that their minds and hearts are so corrupted that they don't really know the truth about anything? Or does it mean that they only don't know the truth about spiritual things?
That is a trick question right? LOL :P
I think it depends on the unsaved person....
I think yes, some of them,
have hearts and mind so corrupted they don't really know the truth about anything,
but about spiritual things, it seems they all do on some level.
The question is:
do they know,
or did they know the truth...
ever about there being a Creator?
and then,
they became so corrupted, they became confused,
denied and lost or buried that knowledge?
Or...
being born sinners,
were they just so corrupted
that unless God intervenes
and they hear His word,
they don't really know any truth about anything,
Yet they do about spiritual things?
This seems to say that everyone
on some level, knows
a certain amount of truth about God because:
19 since what may be known about God is plain to them,
because God has made it plain to them.
Romans 1:19
False teachers etc. have some knowledge of God,
but do not want to give up their sins,
and so they lie, about God
( make up false gods etc.)
and try to make everyone like themselves, or worse
3 For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine.
Instead, to suit their own desires,
they will gather around them a great number of teachers
to say what their itching ears want to hear.
4 They will turn their ears away from the truth
and turn aside to myths.
2 Timothy 4:3,4
These verses says they 'knew' God
but 'became' fools:
21 For although they knew God,
they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him,
but their thinking became futile
and their foolish hearts were darkened.
22 Although they claimed to be wise,
they became fools
Romans 1:22,23
28 Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile
to retain the knowledge of God,
so God gave them over to a depraved mind,
so that they do what ought not to be done.
Romans 1:28
32 Although they know
God’s righteous decree
that those who do such things deserve death,
they not only continue to do these very things
but also approve of those who practice them.
Romans 1:32
Confusion can reign,
but it is not from God
33 For God is not a God of confusion
but of peace.
As in all the churches of the saints,
1 Corinthians 14:33
:However, there is also the devil
who can get in on it and add to confusion
with lies
44 You are of your father the devil,
and your will is to do your father's desires.
He was a murderer from the beginning,
and does not stand in the truth,
because there is no truth in him.
When he lies, he speaks out of his own character,
for he is a liar and the father of lies.
John 8:44
It is my thought, that if you don't acknowledge God,
then all other knowledge will be corrupted
so that the unsaved minds and hearts are so corrupted that they don't really know the truth about anything.
Take science for example:
both believing scientists and unsaved have the same
information, but they view it entirely different,
they can't both be true....
but the non-believing scientist,
will come up with all sorts of rescuing devices
when it becomes clear they evidence does not support their theories...
Then they will 'make up'
a new theory
( with absolutely No evidence)
and say:
Because we "KNOW' this HAS to be true
(even though the evidence shows it is false)
They insist and will say:
someday we will find the evidence to prove it
and this is the theory....
( no matter how fanciful, bizarre, crazy their new theory is
in order to pull a rabbit out of their so called science hat).
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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Post by fearnot on Aug 16, 2021 14:20:54 GMT -5
My words are in this color
Bible scripture in this color
and other people's words in this color
Another verse concerning the thinking of the unsaved
would be they have lofty opinions against the knowledge of God:
We destroy
arguments and every lofty opinion raised against the knowledge of God,
and take every thought captive to obey Christ,
2 Corinthians 10:5
and also:
17 Now this I say and testify in the Lord,
that you must no longer walk as the Gentiles do,
in the futility of their minds.
18 They are darkened in their understanding,
alienated from the life of God
because of the ignorance that is in them,
due to their hardness of heart.
19 They have become callous
and have given themselves up to sensuality,
greedy to practice every kind of impurity.
Ephesians 4:17-19
The unsaved in the name of 'science', can then,
feel free to rebel and revel in lawlessness,
and call it 'good'.
But this 'freedom' is in fact,
moral decay, and depravity.
They make up their own codes, saying
things like:
"What 'works' for you,
does not 'work' for me"
In fact, they now say,
only what I deem as 'right',
is what everybody must follow,
or be put in prison (in some cases),
or lose your job etc.
Thus they shoot down their own mantra
that there are no moral absolutes
but insisting on their 'absolute'.... absolutes.
However this is not their standard:
So, whether you eat or drink,
or whatever you do,
do all to the glory of God.
1 Corinthians 10:31
Nor
37 And he said to him,
“You shall love the Lord your God
with all your heart
and with all your soul
and with all your mind.
Matthew 22:37
Note: that verse speaks of the 'mind'...
which can be used in an ungodly proud manner
or with godly intellectual reasoning.
The unbeliever's worldview, can not really have any firm foundation,
as they have based everything they believe on random chance,
and so, if everything is random there can be no laws or logic
that can be sustain, because it can all change in a moment.
There are no 'laws' of logic when everything is based on a foundation of accidents.
Unless the Lord builds the house,
those who build it labor in vain.
Psalms 127:1
Done for today
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Post by Cindy on Aug 17, 2021 11:14:33 GMT -5
So, based on what you've written, does the fact of someone being unsaved
mean that their minds and hearts are so corrupted that they don't really know the truth about anything? Or does it mean that they only don't know the truth about spiritual things?
That is a trick question right? LOL :P
No, it's not a trick question, it's actually the reason I suggested this particular Bible study. I intended it to answer those questions.
I think it depends on the unsaved person....
No, that's not what the Bible says....
I think yes, some of them,
have hearts and mind so corrupted they don't really know the truth about anything,
but about spiritual things, it seems they all do on some level.
Are you really saying that an unsaved person understands spiritual things? I don't think that's what the Bible says.
The question is:
do they know,
or did they know the truth...
ever about there being a Creator?
and then,
they became so corrupted, they became confused,
denied and lost or buried that knowledge?
Or...
being born sinners,
were they just so corrupted
that unless God intervenes
and they hear His word,
they don't really know any truth about anything,
Yet they do about spiritual things?
This seems to say that everyone
on some level, knows
a certain amount of truth about God because:
19 since what may be known about God is plain to them,
because God has made it plain to them.
Romans 1:19
No, that's talking about knowing that God exists, or you could say it's knowing that there is a God, not knowing or understanding God or His Word.
False teachers etc. have some knowledge of God,
but do not want to give up their sins,
and so they lie, about God
( make up false gods etc.)
and try to make everyone like themselves, or worse
No, false teachers do not understand Spiritual things, they don't know God or understand the truths about Him or have a relationship with Him. All they know is that they can pretend to be a pastor, teach the WOF, and make a ton of money. That's not knowing spiritual things. They don't believe they're sinning, and don't believe there's a hell or judgement coming, etc.
3 For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine.
Instead, to suit their own desires,
they will gather around them a great number of teachers
to say what their itching ears want to hear.
4 They will turn their ears away from the truth
and turn aside to myths.
2 Timothy 4:3,4
The above verses are speaking about people who are pretending to be Christians, and who are not saved and who have no knowledge of God or spiritual things and don't want to hear anything about Him or about the Spirit or spiritual things. Instead they want to know how to make more money etc.
These verses says they 'knew' God
but 'became' fools:
21 For although they knew God,
they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him,
but their thinking became futile
and their foolish hearts were darkened.
22 Although they claimed to be wise,
they became fools
Romans 1:22,23
Again, no. Here's what MacArthur says: "Man is conscious of God’s existence, power, and divine nature through general revelation." In other words, it's what I said about Rom 1:19. God plants knowledge of Himself (that He exists). Or as MacArthur says: " God has sovereignly planted evidence of His existence in the very nature of man by reason and moral law" That's saying that they know a God exists, but they don't know or care about Him or want anything to do with Him. They even convince themselves, often even before they're adults, that He doesn't exist. You can draw a picture of a house and show it to someone who also loves to draw houses and they will see the house in your picture. But if you show it to someone who hates houses, they will refuse to see a house in your picture, because they don't want to believe houses exist.
God holds humans responsible only for that which they know or could know. People could know God just by seeing creation, but 99% of people refuse to see God in His creation. They could also know Him through moral laws that He made (like the 10 commandments) but again, people don't want to be told not to do something, so 99% refuse to Him through that means as well. The only ones who really know God through those things, are those of us who are saved. But the rest of humanity will be held accountable for what they could have known had they but tried.
The Faithlife Study Bible explains it this way: The universal revelation of God’s power and deity in creation means that no one can claim ignorance for failing to honor God as God (vv. 21–23). God’s wrath is therefore just (v. 18). God Knowledge of God typically includes recognition of His sovereignty, which results in worship (Josh 4:24; 1 Kgs 8:43; 2 Kgs 19:19; Psa 100:3). Here, people fail to worship God or acknowledge Him as Creator despite their knowledge of Him. A fool is not merely someone who is ignorant or lacks intelligence. The term has moral connotations that include a rejection of God (Psa 14:1; Jer 10:14). By refusing to acknowledge God, people reveal their foolishness.
So they "could have known", but chose not to know, or not to admit they know.
28 Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile
to retain the knowledge of God,
so God gave them over to a depraved mind,
so that they do what ought not to be done.
Romans 1:28
32 Although they know
God’s righteous decree
that those who do such things deserve death,
they not only continue to do these very things
but also approve of those who practice them.
Romans 1:32
Confusion can reign,
but it is not from God
Oh but it IS from God as far as unbelievers are concerned. Look again at Romans 1:28. "God gave them over to a depraved mind". A depraved mind is a very confused mind. It's a mind that sees a lot more then just two genders and thinks perverted sex is just fine. It's a mind that hates the truth and only listens to lies. It hates anything to do with the real God, because they know the True God is against what they do and say, although they won't admit to knowing that.
33 For God is not a God of confusion
but of peace.
As in all the churches of the saints,
1 Corinthians 14:33
That's talking about to saved people and that God Himself is not a God of confusion, but of peace to the Saints.
“and in every sort of evil that deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie” (2 Thessalonians 2:10–11) Lies create confusion, division, and strife and even eventually death as they are part of the realm of Satan. Satan is a master liar, but God uses him and uses lies against his children, the unbelievers.
:However, there is also the devil
who can get in on it and add to confusion
with lies
44 You are of your father the devil,
and your will is to do your father's desires.
He was a murderer from the beginning,
and does not stand in the truth,
because there is no truth in him.
When he lies, he speaks out of his own character,
for he is a liar and the father of lies.
John 8:44
It is my thought, that if you don't acknowledge God,
then all other knowledge will be corrupted
so that the unsaved minds and hearts are so corrupted that they don't really know the truth about anything.
Yes, that's true, but you have denied that, by what you said in everything else before this statement. So now I'm very confused as to why you seemed to be trying to say that the unsaved could understand God and spiritual things?
Take science for example:
both believing scientists and unsaved have the same
information, but they view it entirely different,
they can't both be true....
but the non-believing scientist,
will come up with all sorts of rescuing devices
when it becomes clear they evidence does not support their theories...
Then they will 'make up'
a new theory
( with absolutely No evidence)
and say:
Because we "KNOW' this HAS to be true
(even though the evidence shows it is false)
They insist and will say:
someday we will find the evidence to prove it
and this is the theory....
( no matter how fanciful, bizarre, crazy their new theory is
in order to pull a rabbit out of their so called science hat).
In the many sermons I've listened to from MacArthur, I've heard him say repeatedly that the unsaved have no knowledge of God. I'm sure you must have heard that too.... I could be wrong, but I don't think so. I'll have to check out more scripture tomorrow.
My words are in this color
Bible scripture in this color
and other people's words in this color
Another verse concerning the thinking of the unsaved
would be they have lofty opinions against the knowledge of God:
We destroy
arguments and every lofty opinion raised against the knowledge of God,
and take every thought captive to obey Christ,
2 Corinthians 10:5
and also:
17 Now this I say and testify in the Lord,
that you must no longer walk as the Gentiles do,
in the futility of their minds.
18 They are darkened in their understanding,
alienated from the life of God
because of the ignorance that is in them,
due to their hardness of heart.
19 They have become callous
and have given themselves up to sensuality,
greedy to practice every kind of impurity.
Ephesians 4:17-19
The unsaved in the name of 'science', can then,
feel free to rebel and revel in lawlessness,
and call it 'good'.
But this 'freedom' is in fact,
moral decay, and depravity.
They make up their own codes, saying
things like:
"What 'works' for you,
does not 'work' for me"
In fact, they now say,
only what I deem as 'right',
is what everybody must follow,
or be put in prison (in some cases),
or lose your job etc.
Thus they shoot down their own mantra
that there are no moral absolutes
but insisting on their 'absolute'.... absolutes.
However this is not their standard:
So, whether you eat or drink,
or whatever you do,
do all to the glory of God.
1 Corinthians 10:31
Nor
37 And he said to him,
“You shall love the Lord your God
with all your heart
and with all your soul
and with all your mind.
Matthew 22:37
Note: that verse speaks of the 'mind'...
which can be used in an ungodly proud manner
or with godly intellectual reasoning.
The unbeliever's worldview, can not really have any firm foundation,
as they have based everything they believe on random chance,
and so, if everything is random there can be no laws or logic
that can be sustain, because it can all change in a moment.
There are no 'laws' of logic when everything is based on a foundation of accidents.
Unless the Lord builds the house,
those who build it labor in vain.
Psalms 127:1
Done for today
Yes, this shows that their thinking is futile. That they have no true knowledge of God or any spiritual understanding.
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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Post by fearnot on Aug 17, 2021 13:51:15 GMT -5
Well, I wonder if I should continue? I did not write clearly, I meant they know there is God, and deny it, not that they can understand spiritual things, but even worldly things are not understood.
But I did not get that across,
and
it sounded like I was saying they could...
so, maybe I should not continue?
I won't write anything today, and I will wait to see what you think.
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Post by Cindy on Aug 18, 2021 9:20:43 GMT -5
Well, I wonder if I should continue? I did not write clearly, I meant they know there is God, and deny it, not that they can understand spiritual things, but even worldly things are not understood.
But I did not get that across,
and
it sounded like I was saying they could...
so, maybe I should not continue?
I won't write anything today, and I will wait to see what you think.
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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Post by fearnot on Aug 18, 2021 9:54:01 GMT -5
Yes, I was extremely tired that day, and almost did not write, but then thought, I would try and make an effort. Perhaps I should listen more to my body, and not post on days like that. I did not have the energy to go and reread even.
I was super tired yesterday also.
But yes that is a good idea, I will see if I can do that today.
I have been also having a sore throat for the last 2 days just to add fuel to the fire :(
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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Post by fearnot on Aug 18, 2021 10:36:16 GMT -5
No they have hearts and mind so corrupted,
they don't really know the truth about anything
and unless God intervenes
and they hear His word,
they don't really know any truth about anything,
They know God exists
19 since what may be known about God is plain to them,
because God has made it plain to them.
Romans 1:19
3 For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine.
Instead, to suit their own desires,
they will gather around them a great number of teachers
to say what their itching ears want to hear.
4 They will turn their ears away from the truth
and turn aside to myths.
2 Timothy 4:3,4
These verses says they knew God exists
but 'became' fools:
21 For although they knew God,
they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him,
but their thinking became futile
and their foolish hearts were darkened.
22 Although they claimed to be wise,
they became fools
Romans 1:22,23
Here's what MacArthur says: "Man is conscious of God’s existence, power, and divine nature through general revelation." In other words, it's what I said about Rom 1:19. God plants knowledge of Himself (that He exists). Or as MacArthur says: " God has sovereignly planted evidence of His existence in the very nature of man by reason and moral law" That's saying that they know a God exists, but they don't know or care about Him or want anything to do with Him. They even convince themselves, often even before they're adults, that He doesn't exist. You can draw a picture of a house and show it to someone who also loves to draw houses and they will see the house in your picture. But if you show it to someone who hates houses, they will refuse to see a house in your picture, because they don't want to believe houses exist.
God holds humans responsible only for that which they know or could know. People could know God just by seeing creation, but 99% of people refuse to see God in His creation. They could also know Him through moral laws that He made (like the 10 commandments) but again, people don't want to be told not to do something, so 99% refuse to Him through that means as well. The only ones who really know God through those things, are those of us who are saved. But the rest of humanity will be held accountable for what they could have known had they but tried.
The Faithlife Study Bible explains it this way: The universal revelation of God’s power and deity in creation means that no one can claim ignorance for failing to honor God as God (vv. 21–23). God’s wrath is therefore just (v. 18). God Knowledge of God typically includes recognition of His sovereignty, which results in worship (Josh 4:24; 1 Kgs 8:43; 2 Kgs 19:19; Psa 100:3). Here, people fail to worship God or acknowledge Him as Creator despite their knowledge of Him. A fool is not merely someone who is ignorant or lacks intelligence. The term has moral connotations that include a rejection of God (Psa 14:1; Jer 10:14). By refusing to acknowledge God, people reveal their foolishness.
So they "could have known", but chose not to know, or not to admit they know.
28 Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile
to retain the knowledge of God,
so God gave them over to a depraved mind,
so that they do what ought not to be done.
Romans 1:28
32 Although they know
God’s righteous decree
that those who do such things deserve death,
they not only continue to do these very things
but also approve of those who practice them.
Romans 1:32
Confusion reigns with the unbeliever,
but it is not from God
"God gave them over to a depraved mind". A depraved mind is a very confused mind. It's a mind that sees a lot more then just two genders and thinks perverted sex is just fine. It's a mind that hates the truth and only listens to lies. It hates anything to do with the real God, because they know the True God is against what they do and say, although they won't admit to knowing that.
33 For God is not a God of confusion
but of peace.
As in all the churches of the saints,
1 Corinthians 14:33
That's talking about to saved people and that God Himself is not a God of confusion, but of peace to the Saints.
“and in every sort of evil that deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie”
(2 Thessalonians 2:10–11) Lies create confusion, division, and strife and even eventually death as they are part of the realm of Satan. Satan is a master liar, but God uses him and uses lies against his children, the unbelievers.
The devil
get in on it and adds more confusion
with his lies.
44 You are of your father the devil,
and your will is to do your father's desires.
He was a murderer from the beginning,
and does not stand in the truth,
because there is no truth in him.
When he lies, he speaks out of his own character,
for he is a liar and the father of lies.
John 8:44
It is my thought, that if you don't acknowledge God,
then all other knowledge will be corrupted
so that the unsaved minds and hearts are so corrupted that they don't really know the truth about anything.
Take science for example:
both believing scientists and unsaved have the same
information,
but they view it entirely different,
they can't both be true....
the non-believing scientist,
will come up with all sorts of 'rescuing devices'
when it becomes clear their theories do not hold up...
Then,
they will 'make up'
a new theory
( with absolutely No evidence)
and say:
it's because they "KNOW'their theory HAS to be true
(even though the evidence shows it is false)
They insist and will say:
someday we will find the evidence to prove it
and this is the theory....
( no matter how fanciful, bizarre, crazy their new theory is
in order to pull a rabbit out of their so called science hat).
So in fact they are wrong,
because they are blind to the truth
Another verse concerning the thinking of the unsaved
would be they have lofty opinions against the knowledge of God:
We destroy
arguments and every lofty opinion raised against the knowledge of God,
and take every thought captive to obey Christ,
2 Corinthians 10:5
and also:
17 Now this I say and testify in the Lord,
that you must no longer walk as the Gentiles do,
in the futility of their minds.
18 They are darkened in their understanding,
alienated from the life of God
because of the ignorance that is in them,
due to their hardness of heart.
19 They have become callous
and have given themselves up to sensuality,
greedy to practice every kind of impurity.
Ephesians 4:17-19
The unsaved in the name of 'science',
feel free to rebel and revel in lawlessness,
and call it 'good'.
But this 'freedom' is in fact,
moral decay, and depravity.
They make up their own codes,
saying things like:
"What 'works' for you,
does not 'work' for me"
In fact, now they are saying,
only what 'I' ( the unsaved) deem as morally 'right',
is what everybody must follow,
or be put in prison (in some cases),
or lose your job etc.
Thus, they shoot down their own mantra
that there are no moral absolutes
but insisting on their 'absolute'.... absolutes.
However this is not their standard:
So, whether you eat or drink,
or whatever you do,
do all to the glory of God.
1 Corinthians 10:31
Nor
37 And he said to him,
“You shall love the Lord your God
with all your heart
and with all your soul
and with all your mind.
Matthew 22:37
The unbeliever's worldview, can not really have any firm foundation,
as they have based everything they believe in random chance....
so, if everything is random,
there can be no laws or logic
that can be sustain,
because it could all change in a moment.
In their inability to know truth,
and an insane belief that there are no 'laws',
when they believe:
everything is based on a foundation of accidents,
( accidental big bang, accidental pond scum coming to life
accidental mutations making things evolve etc.)
which is crazy because day after day, God upholds the universe.
Unless the Lord builds the house,
those who build it labor in vain.
Psalms 127:1
Done for today
Yes, this shows that their thinking is futile. That they have no true knowledge of God or any spiritual understanding. |
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Post by Cindy on Aug 19, 2021 8:19:22 GMT -5
Yes, please do continue. It would be a good idea to go back and look at your post and see if you can see why it sounded like you were saying they could understand; and then rewrite your post to show what you said here - that they know there is a God, but deny it and that they don't understand spiritual things or worldly things. It can be difficult to get those ideas across so that people understand what we're saying. Also, I know you've been tired and in pain and so have I so it's quite possible that's playing a part in how you wrote this and how I understood it. Yes, I was extremely tired that day, and almost did not write, but then thought, I would try and make an effort. Perhaps I should listen more to my body, and not post on days like that. I did not have the energy to go and reread even.
I was super tired yesterday also.
But yes that is a good idea, I will see if I can do that today.
I have been also having a sore throat for the last 2 days just to add fuel to the fire :( |
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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Post by fearnot on Aug 19, 2021 13:05:27 GMT -5
I copied the old,
but did rewrite a lot of it...
not the scriptures of course.
You had suggested that I try rewriting what I wrote previously, to say more of what I meant, because what I wrote the first time, sounded like the opposite.
But rather than start completely from scratch, ( and I wanted to keep your comments etc.)
I copied it....but changed most of the way I had originally wrote.
I thought that is what you meant, but maybe you meant
was for me to start all over from scratch, but since I was also still not feeling great....still had a slightly scratchy throat and was very tired
I took the easy way...opps!
I thought I have said, I appreciate all your comments?
Well, I do.
Of course, its nice to get positive ones,
but I also learn a lot from the negative or corrective ones.
Once in a great while though,
I wonder if perhaps I should not be writing them,
especially if I am waaaaaay off the mark.
Still, I do learn a lot and that is a very good thing.
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
|
Post by fearnot on Aug 19, 2021 13:35:05 GMT -5
My words are in this color
Bible scripture in this color
and other people's words in this color
Most people now think the secular, atheistic, unsaved scientists,
that have super high IQ's
have 'proven' the universe is billions of years old,
through science.
But this is not true.
I could go into why it is not true, nor even true science,
but instead, I want to look at 'why' would
the unsaved 'want' that to be true
and to hope to disprove the Bible?
To start with,
they believe that: ' the billions of years' theory,
would be a fatal attack on God's word, the Bible.
It is an attempt to prove the Bible,
untrustworthy and full of silly myths.
So they start at Genesis,
which is where God started.
Genesis is the beginning and the foundation
of the Christian's faith.
( I am not sure,
but I do not think,
Atheists have ever put in as much time,
trying to debunk the Koran, or any other religions books,
like they have the Bible)
So the unsaved start where God started in His Word,
at Genesis 1:1
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
Genesis 1:1
The unsaved want to change that to read:
In the beginning
billions of years ago,
nothing, nobody, and chance,
via the big bang
created the universe.
The idea is to be rid of God right from the start.
The next issue, the atheists scornfully laugh at,
is the notion God created everything
in 6 days.
( While insisting the big bang did it,
in a billion fractions of a second...
or something close to that).
For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth,
the sea, and all that is in them,
but he rested on the seventh day.
Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.
Exodus 20:11
There are many many attacks made by the unsaved, on Genesis,
because they seem to somehow understand,
( or the devil has put the bug in their ear)
that without Genesis,
the Christian has no foundation to defend their faith.
Of course Jesus, is our true foundation,
but without the first Adam,
then sin could not have entered into the world
12 Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man,
and death through sin,
and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned—
Romans 5:12
and sin infected every human that has ever lived.
Without Adam, and no sin,
there would be no need for Jesus.
Genesis explains what is wrong in the world,
it explains its beginning
but the unsaved do not want to believe in sin,
they want to continue in their 'freedom' to sin
and call it 'good'.
19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man
the many were made sinners,
so also through the obedience of the one man
the many will be made righteous.
Romans 5:19
Nor could the believer defend just two sexes without Genesis:
So God created mankind in his own image,
in the image of God he created them;
male and female he created them.
Genesis 1:27
Also without Genesis believers could not defend marriage
as instituted by God
24 That is why a man leaves his father and mother
and is united to his wife,
and they become one flesh.
Genesis 2:24
But if the unsaved can turn Adam and Eve into symbols or myths,
then marriage etc. is just a cultural trend,
than can be changed
( which is what the unsaved have been trying to do).
However, Jesus wasn't descended from a 'mythical Adam.
In Luke Jesus genealogy is traced from his parents
all the way back to the very beginning
I will just quote the final portion
of Jesus's genealogy:
38 the son of Enosh,
the son of Seth,
the son of Adam,
the son of God.
Luke 3:38
This is a 'historical' not a mythical Adam.
31 But these are written that you may believe
that Jesus is the Messiah,
the Son of God,
and that by believing you may have life in his name.
John 20:31
This is a continuous battle between God absolute Word,
and man's words and opinions.
Done for today
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Post by Cindy on Aug 20, 2021 9:34:50 GMT -5
I copied the old,
but did rewrite a lot of it...
not the scriptures of course.
You had suggested that I try rewriting what I wrote previously, to say more of what I meant, because what I wrote the first time, sounded like the opposite.
But rather than start completely from scratch, ( and I wanted to keep your comments etc.)
I copied it....but changed most of the way I had originally wrote.
I thought that is what you meant, but maybe you meant
was for me to start all over from scratch, but since I was also still not feeling great....still had a slightly scratchy throat and was very tired
I took the easy way...opps!
I thought I have said, I appreciate all your comments?
Well, I do.
Of course, its nice to get positive ones,
but I also learn a lot from the negative or corrective ones.
Once in a great while though,
I wonder if perhaps I should not be writing them,
especially if I am waaaaaay off the mark.
Still, I do learn a lot and that is a very good thing.
While it's true that God will judge us more harshly for teaching His Word, He would also judge us more harshly if we didn't teach His Word because He knows we're capable to doing so. Please know though that God won't punish us for making a mistake. That's just part of being human. When we're told that He will judge teachers more harshly, He's speaking about people who might try to teach when they don't really know God's Word, but they want the "status" of being a teacher, and so are constantly making mistakes because they don't even try to make sure they're teaching the Truth. He's also speaking about people who know the truth but teach lies in order to keep their congregation under their power, like the Catholic Church does; Or those who know they're teaching lies, but want people's money, like the WOF teachers today, etc. But those of us who make an honest mistake, and try their best to only teach the truth, won't be punished. If we shared something and someone told us we were mistaken and we didn't double check what we had said to be sure we were speaking the truth as we know it, then, God would have a reason to judge us harshly.
I know a great example that I just thought of. I used to post a lot from Pastor Jack Kelly and one of his articles shocked me. He told about how he used to believe in and post about "soul sleep" which is a heretical belief, but he didn't know that at the time. One day another pastor explained his error to him, and he realized he'd been teaching error all that time and immediately set about to publicly tell his congregation and his online followers the truth. So he wasn't ever a false teacher of a heretic, he simply made a mistake. Once he realized it, he corrected it. I even posted about this since I've been meaning to for a long time anyway:
fresh-hope.com/thread/6298/define-false-teacher-heretic
My words are in this color
Bible scripture in this color
and other people's words in this color
Most people now think the secular, atheistic, unsaved scientists,
that have super high IQ's
have 'proven' the universe is billions of years old,
through science.
But this is not true.
I could go into why it is not true, nor even true science,
but instead, I want to look at 'why' would
the unsaved 'want' that to be true
and to hope to disprove the Bible?
To start with,
they believe that: ' the billions of years' theory,
would be a fatal attack on God's word, the Bible.
It is an attempt to prove the Bible,
untrustworthy and full of silly myths.
So they start at Genesis,
which is where God started.
Genesis is the beginning and the foundation
of the Christian's faith.
( I am not sure,
but I do not think,
Atheists have ever put in as much time,
trying to debunk the Koran, or any other religions books,
like they have the Bible)
So the unsaved start where God started in His Word,
at Genesis 1:1
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
Genesis 1:1
The unsaved want to change that to read:
In the beginning
billions of years ago,
nothing, nobody, and chance,
via the big bang
created the universe.
The idea is to be rid of God right from the start.
The next issue, the atheists scornfully laugh at,
is the notion God created everything
in 6 days.
( While insisting the big bang did it,
in a billion fractions of a second...
or something close to that).
For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth,
the sea, and all that is in them,
but he rested on the seventh day.
Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.
Exodus 20:11
There are many many attacks made by the unsaved, on Genesis,
because they seem to somehow understand,
( or the devil has put the bug in their ear)
that without Genesis,
the Christian has no foundation to defend their faith.
Of course Jesus, is our true foundation,
but without the first Adam,
then sin could not have entered into the world
12 Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man,
and death through sin,
and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned—
Romans 5:12
and sin infected every human that has ever lived.
Without Adam, and no sin,
there would be no need for Jesus.
Genesis explains what is wrong in the world,
it explains its beginning
but the unsaved do not want to believe in sin,
they want to continue in their 'freedom' to sin
and call it 'good'.
19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man
the many were made sinners,
so also through the obedience of the one man
the many will be made righteous.
Romans 5:19
Nor could the believer defend just two sexes:
So God created mankind in his own image,
in the image of God he created them;
male and female he created them.
Genesis 1:27
Also without Genesis believers could not defend marriage
as instituted by God
24 That is why a man leaves his father and mother
and is united to his wife,
and they become one flesh.
Genesis 2:24
But if the unsaved can turn Adam and Eve into symbols or myths,
then marriage etc. is just a cultural trend,
than can be changed
( which is what the unsaved have been trying to do).
However, Jesus wasn't descended from a 'mythical Adam.
In Luke Jesus genealogy is traced from his parents
all the way back to the very beginning
I will just quote the final portion
of Jesus's genealogy:
38 the son of Enosh,
the son of Seth,
the son of Adam,
the son of God.
Luke 3:38
This is a 'historical' not a mythical Adam.
31 But these are written that you may believe
that Jesus is the Messiah,
the Son of God,
and that by believing you may have life in his name.
John 20:31
This is a continuous battle between God absolute Word,
and man's words and opinions.
Done for today
I know that you've got a ton of information about scientists and why they're wrong, but I'd really like to make this mainly about the average person, since most folks aren't going to identify themselves with a scientist. If you need to post more about scientists to finish where you're going with it, that's fine too, but then let's get back to the average person ok?
I'd like to share something I discovered about the average unbeliever. Every time one came to our old site and posted something to "prove" we were wrong about God, I asked them if they had ever read the Bible or ever prayed to God and asked Him to show them if He was real. None of them had done either thing. Even when they were posting junk about how the Bible supposedly contradicts itself, they were just posting what they're read on some agnostic site. The only time I had anyone say different, was if their parents had taken them to church as a child. That was their only claim to having any kind of information about the Bible or God. But they would say they had "studied" about how the Bible isn't God's Word. In other words they went to a secular site and read their information but never even tried to find out what God said about it. Sad isn't it? And their "research" wouldn't be acceptable by any professor under any circumstances except when it concerns the God of the Bible. |
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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Post by fearnot on Aug 20, 2021 12:21:47 GMT -5
Yes, that is what I meant:
"Nor could the believer defend just two sexes:
" I can defend just two sexes....
unless you mean what you said in the next part,
that without Genesis I couldn't defend it?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I did focus on science and scientists,
because, I think, a lot of unsaved,
believe that 'science',
and super smart scientists
have already proven the Bible to be a bunch of silly myths,
starting with Genesis.
The normal unsaved person
( at least the ones I have talked with in the past)
always trot science out as an excuse,
and they will state with pride,
in their science god:
Science has proven the universe is billions of years old
Science has proven atoms to man ( evolution)
Science has proven....( fill in the blank)
not that they know all the real debates etc. that actually goes on in the scientific world....
the truth is that many secular, unsaved scientists do not always scorn
their believing colleagues
( who are every bit as brilliant, and can do the same mathematical calculations etc. etc.).
But that is often the unsaved
'absolute truth'
'Science has proven.....'
So that was why I was using
a lot of 'science'
but I can try to leave that out.
It is just I have heard so many many unsaved scoff at the Bible,
as a bunch of silly myths
because in their mind, the Bible cannot hold a candle to true science.
Of course, the underlying reason for trying to stand on
their 'holy ground'......of science
is because they do not want to repent of their sins
and they do not want to be held accountable to a true HOLY God.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Where exactly should I go and change the first part you mention
about believers not being able defend two sexes
without God's absolute word
I know on the one hand our very eyes,
and pure logic,
can tell us 2 sexes is all there is...
but God has made it absolutely clear, in scripture,
so that when the unsaved try and say,
there are 100 plus genders
( more evolving every day)
is insanity....
God's Word is way way way higher than man's opinion...
was what I was trying to get across
but I wonder if I should go and change each post...I did change two of them?
Is that what you were saying?
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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Post by fearnot on Aug 20, 2021 13:09:12 GMT -5
My words are in this color
Bible scripture in this color
and other people's words in this color
The unsaved do not generally believe,
they need to repent of their sins,
nor do they feel remorse or guilt over them.
( maybe if it was a particularly heinous act,
but often, not even then).
They see no reason to change their mind,
Frequently, they instead, are 'proud' of their sins
and do not feel the need to be held accountable to anyone,
especially not God!
This thinking is a good definition of a fool:
The fool says in his heart,
“There is no God.”
They are corrupt, their deeds are vile;
there is no one who does good.
Psalms 14:1
The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge,
but fools despise wisdom and instruction.
Proverbs 1:7
However, numerous unsaved harden their hearts
and continue to insist on doing whatever they want,
but the results are ultimately never good for them.
Whoever remains stiff-necked after many rebukes
will suddenly be destroyed—without remedy.
Proverbs 29:1
For the most part,
when they suffer consequences,
they still do not repent,
but become angry and bitter.
For the waywardness of the simple will kill them,
and the complacency of fools will destroy them;
Proverbs 1:32
Do not be quickly provoked in your spirit,
for anger resides in the lap of fools.
Ecclesiastes 7:9
5 But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart,
you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God’s wrath,
when his righteous judgment will be revealed.
6 God “will repay each person according to what they have done.”
7 To those who by persistence in doing good
seek glory, honor and immortality,
he will give eternal life.
8 But for those who are self-seeking
and who reject the truth and follow evil,
there will be wrath and anger.
Romans 2:5-8
They repeatedly pride themselves
as rebels and 'free' spirits....
but in fact,
they are slaves
to sin and Satan.
20 When you were slaves to sin,
you were free
from the control of righteousness.
Romans 6:20
16 Don’t you know that when you offer yourselves to someone as obedient slaves,
you are slaves of the one you obey—
whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death,
or to obedience, which leads to righteousness?
Romans 6:16
The unsaved thinks almost exclusively about worldly things,
neglecting the most important spiritual things.
For the message of the cross is foolishness
to those who are perishing,
but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.
1 Corinthians 1:18
The unsaved does not think
the truth of this verse,
has any merit to him or her:
4 You adulterous people,
don’t you know that friendship with the world
means enmity against God?
Therefore, anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world
becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
Again the Bible give the truth about being 'worldly':
19 We know that we are children of God,
and that the whole world is under the control of the evil one.
1 John 5:19
The Christians learn to avoid worldly folly,
and being tossed about,
by the lies of the world,
and the foolish so called, worldly 'wisdom'
as well as sin and Satan,
The unsaved are spiritually blind.
Done for today
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Post by Cindy on Aug 21, 2021 8:14:34 GMT -5
My words are in this color
Bible scripture in this color
and other people's words in this color
Most people now think the secular, atheistic, unsaved scientists,
that have super high IQ's
have 'proven' the universe is billions of years old,
through science.
But this is not true.
I could go into why it is not true, nor even true science,
but instead, I want to look at 'why' would
the unsaved 'want' that to be true
and to hope to disprove the Bible?
To start with,
they believe that: ' the billions of years' theory,
would be a fatal attack on God's word, the Bible.
It is an attempt to prove the Bible,
untrustworthy and full of silly myths.
So they start at Genesis,
which is where God started.
Genesis is the beginning and the foundation
of the Christian's faith.
( I am not sure,
but I do not think,
Atheists have ever put in as much time,
trying to debunk the Koran, or any other religions books,
like they have the Bible)
So the unsaved start where God started in His Word,
at Genesis 1:1
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
Genesis 1:1
The unsaved want to change that to read:
In the beginning
billions of years ago,
nothing, nobody, and chance,
via the big bang
created the universe.
The idea is to be rid of God right from the start.
The next issue, the atheists scornfully laugh at,
is the notion God created everything
in 6 days.
( While insisting the big bang did it,
in a billion fractions of a second...
or something close to that).
For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth,
the sea, and all that is in them,
but he rested on the seventh day.
Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.
Exodus 20:11
There are many many attacks made by the unsaved, on Genesis,
because they seem to somehow understand,
( or the devil has put the bug in their ear)
that without Genesis,
the Christian has no foundation to defend their faith.
Of course Jesus, is our true foundation,
but without the first Adam,
then sin could not have entered into the world
12 Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man,
and death through sin,
and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned—
Romans 5:12
and sin infected every human that has ever lived.
Without Adam, and no sin,
there would be no need for Jesus.
Genesis explains what is wrong in the world,
it explains its beginning
but the unsaved do not want to believe in sin,
they want to continue in their 'freedom' to sin
and call it 'good'.
19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man
the many were made sinners,
so also through the obedience of the one man
the many will be made righteous.
Romans 5:19
Nor could the believer defend just two sexes:
This is the sentence I was talking about. I only talk about the post I'm replying about, not about anything else unless I specifically say so. I don't know why you would even think I was talking about any other post.
So God created mankind in his own image,
in the image of God he created them;
male and female he created them.
Genesis 1:27
Also without Genesis believers could not defend marriage
as instituted by God
24 That is why a man leaves his father and mother
and is united to his wife,
and they become one flesh.
Genesis 2:24
But if the unsaved can turn Adam and Eve into symbols or myths,
then marriage etc. is just a cultural trend,
than can be changed
( which is what the unsaved have been trying to do).
However, Jesus wasn't descended from a 'mythical Adam.
In Luke Jesus genealogy is traced from his parents
all the way back to the very beginning
I will just quote the final portion
of Jesus's genealogy:
38 the son of Enosh,
the son of Seth,
the son of Adam,
the son of God.
Luke 3:38
This is a 'historical' not a mythical Adam.
31 But these are written that you may believe
that Jesus is the Messiah,
the Son of God,
and that by believing you may have life in his name.
John 20:31
This is a continuous battle between God absolute Word,
and man's words and opinions.
Done for today
|
|
|
|
Post by Cindy on Aug 21, 2021 8:27:30 GMT -5
My words are in this color
Bible scripture in this color
and other people's words in this color
The unsaved do not generally believe,
they need to repent of their sins,
nor do they feel remorse or guilt over them.
( maybe if it was a particularly heinous act,
but often, not even then).
They see no reason to change their mind,
Frequently, they instead, are 'proud' of their sins
and do not feel the need to be held accountable to anyone,
especially not God!
This thinking is a good definition of a fool:
The fool says in his heart,
“There is no God.”
They are corrupt, their deeds are vile;
there is no one who does good.
Psalms 14:1
The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge,
but fools despise wisdom and instruction.
Proverbs 1:7
However, numerous unsaved harden their hearts
and continue to insist on doing whatever they want,
but the results are ultimately never good for them.
Whoever remains stiff-necked after many rebukes
will suddenly be destroyed—without remedy.
Proverbs 29:1
For the most part,
when they suffer consequences,
they still do not repent,
but become angry and bitter.
For the waywardness of the simple will kill them,
and the complacency of fools will destroy them;
Proverbs 1:32
Do not be quickly provoked in your spirit,
for anger resides in the lap of fools.
Ecclesiastes 7:9
5 But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart,
you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God’s wrath,
when his righteous judgment will be revealed.
6 God “will repay each person according to what they have done.”
7 To those who by persistence in doing good
seek glory, honor and immortality,
he will give eternal life.
8 But for those who are self-seeking
and who reject the truth and follow evil,
there will be wrath and anger.
Romans 2:5-8
They repeatedly pride themselves
as rebels and 'free' spirits....
but in fact,
they are slaves
to sin and Satan.
20 When you were slaves to sin,
you were free
from the control of righteousness.
Romans 6:20
16 Don’t you know that when you offer yourselves to someone as obedient slaves,
you are slaves of the one you obey—
whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death,
or to obedience, which leads to righteousness?
Romans 6:16
The unsaved thinks almost exclusively about worldly things,
neglecting the most important spiritual things.
For the message of the cross is foolishness
to those who are perishing,
but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.
1 Corinthians 1:18
The unsaved does not think
the truth of this verse,
has any merit to him or her:
4 You adulterous people,
don’t you know that friendship with the world
means enmity against God?
Therefore, anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world
becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
Again the Bible give the truth about being 'worldly':
19 We know that we are children of God,
and that the whole world is under the control of the evil one.
1 John 5:19
The Christians learn to avoid worldly folly,
and being tossed about,
by the lies of the world,
and the foolish so called, worldly 'wisdom'
as well as sin and Satan,
The unsaved are spiritually blind.
Done for today
 Ok, so are you saying the unsaved can't think clearly about anything because their minds are corrupted?
What about doctors that are unsaved? Many people who are really saved go to a doctor when they're sick, and most often that doctor is not saved. Is the unsaved doctor's thinking corrupted? If not, why not. If so, why?
Should we be wary of going to an unsaved doctor for any reason? Again, if not, why and if so why? |
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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Post by fearnot on Aug 21, 2021 11:36:25 GMT -5
What I meant by asking which post should I correct,
was there are usually at least 2 posts with the same writing:
my original one,
and then, another one
where you quoted/copied and commented on,
but often, there is perhaps a third
,or even sometimes a 4th post
where I answer to your comments...etc.
So I was wondering if I should have done the correction on all of them,
or just my original confusing one
or...?
What I ended up doing was,
to go and correct two of the posts....
I 'think' there were only 2 posts this time:
The original confusing one
and the one where you commented on
But now maybe there is a third post? That you did today...
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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Post by fearnot on Aug 21, 2021 12:44:36 GMT -5
My words are in this color
Bible scripture in this color
and other people's words in this color
Your questions were:
What about doctors that are unsaved?
Many people who are really saved go to a doctor when they're sick,
and most often that doctor is not saved.
Is the unsaved doctor's thinking corrupted?
If not, why not. If so, why?
Should we be wary of going to an unsaved doctor for any reason?
Again, if not, why and if so why?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I am thinking the answer to those questions would be a mixture of:
no, yes, and it depends.
I think there are aspects of 'worldly' knowledge
that is not corrupted for either the saved and unsaved.
It would be a confused and crazy world if basic 'material realities' changed
depending or based on,
a persons salvation, or lack of being saved.
but God is not the author of confusion,
or disorder..... so:
45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven.
He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good,
and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.
Matthew 5:45
33 For God is not a God of disorder but of peace—
as in all the congregations of the Lord’s people.
1 Corinthians 14:33
Therefore, when you go to an unsaved doctor,
the math needed to figure out your prescription etc.
would be the same math,
whether, he or she was saved or not,
and so in that case,
there would not be a problem.
So no, their mathematical ability,
in the case of, writing a prescription,
would most likely not be corrupted...
(unless because they were tired and made a mistake or something like that).
However, there are other more spiritual aspects,
that might come into play,
that might indeed,
would be a cause to be wary,
and a yes....
because in that case,
their thinking IS corrupted.
For example, there seems to be a movement
of many medical doctors,
of adding Eastern 'spiritual' alternative concepts,
to their practice,
things like:
yoga, visualization, reiki, mindfulness, etc.
These would be corrupt unsaved thinking,
and saved Christians should be wary of those
so called medical concepts
as a means to solving our medical issues.
I think perhaps, some unsaved doctors,
may being feeling frustrated, and limited,
with basically only being able to prescribe:
drugs and/or surgery, or maybe physical therapy.
They seem to realize something is 'missing',
for health:
a 'true' spiritual component,
so they add Eastern practices,
but that is very dangerous ground,
it is not Eastern alternatives but the True God
that is missing in unsaved medical doctors:
27 Jesus looked at them and said,
“With man this is impossible,
but not with God;
all things are possible with God.”
Mark 10:27
One major aspect, I think,
that may not be dealt with,
by the unsaved doctor,
is stress
( though now they may suggest trying yoga)
But for the Christian,yoga should be a serious red flag,
denoting danger, and instead,
the saved patient should remember this:
6 Do not be anxious about anything,
but in every situation,
by prayer and petition,
with thanksgiving,
present your requests to God.
Philippians 4:6
Actually, the lack of prayer,
prayer first,
and during the medical crisis
is a major missing factor.
In some or in many cases,
the lack of prayer,
might be a major
downfall, in not regaining health:
16 Therefore confess your sins
to each other and pray for each other
so that you may be healed.
The prayer of a righteous person is powerful and effective.
James 5:16
An unsaved doctor might be able to prescribe medicine
for drug addiction,
medication for the alcoholic,
and for sexually transmitted diseases etc. etc.
But they don't really reach the underlying cause of the problems.
And the 'maybe'
( concerning doctors worldly corrupted thinking)
would be,
having to do with
some unsaved doctors the fact,
that some doctors, are starting to pay more attention to diet,
foods, supplements etc.
In some cases this 'maybe'
a okay thing.
You might think, it would be common sense
to know if a person lived on mostly
coffee, candy and donuts,
would mean, their health would suffer...
But you might be wrong.
I think there are people who
actually do not know that!
Then there are patients who only eat vegetables,
which is better than donuts and candy....
but may be lacking in protein etc. etc.
3 Everything that lives and moves about will be food for you.
Just as I gave you the green plants,
I now give you everything.
Genesis 9:3
So unsaved ( and the rare saved) doctors
becoming more knowledgeable about diets,
vitamins, supplements etc.
may be helpful, to a degree, in some cases.
But even if the unsaved doctor can help with proper nutrition,
their patients could be spiritual/Biblically 'starving'
and so, in that way,
the unsaved doctor's corrupt thinking
will be lacking the most important aspect of their patients health:
4 Jesus answered, “It is written:
‘Man shall not live on bread alone,
but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.’”
Matthew 4:4
I think we should go to medical doctors,
and they can help with some medical issues...
but to think,
they are the end all of our medical problems
to my thinking, would be a mistake.
We ought to keep our eyes on Jesus.
The things the corrupt thinking medical doctor can do,
is all good and well,
Nevertheless, there are becoming more and more reasons to be wary
of what seems to be increasing corruption in their thinking.
We need to pray before we go to them,
during ,and after, a visit.
Done for today
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Post by Cindy on Aug 23, 2021 10:22:41 GMT -5
What I meant by asking which post should I correct,
was there are usually at least 2 posts with the same writing:
my original one,
and then, another one
where you quoted/copied and commented on, ...
But now maybe there is a third post? That you did today...
******************
Very good points! I agree that much prayer is needed. God never got upset when someone in the Bible went to a doctor except when that person did not go to Him first. (2 Chronicles 16:12) I wrote this article quite a few years ago, but it applies here too. It was called, Health Problems in the End times.
If you look back through history, before the medical profession became so big and before it became easy for most people to seek a doctor for health care, whenever people were sick, they turned to God for help. Then doctors came along and little by little as that profession grew, people stopped turning to God and instead just like Asa, often only sought help only from the doctors. Notice that the Lord is not condemning doctors or the medical community, but rather condemning those who do not seek His help as well. I know that even today in the so called "less civilized" third world countries, where doctors aren't easy to find or see, the people there still seek God and when missionaries go there, we still see miracles just like those in the Bible. I remember when some folks from my church went to a place in Africa. They came back so excited and had lots of audio and video and we saw the miracles, it wasn't fake. They told us about one man who's legs were all shriveled up and atrophied from cerebral palsy (I'm very familiar with that since my youngest daughter has it). They witnessed to him and he was thrilled and asked Jesus to be his savior. They prayed for him and right before their eyes, his legs straightened out, bones, muscles, tendons, everything! Where he could never have walked or even stood before, he stood up and praised the Lord!!! My pastor's daughter, Amy, who was 17 at the time was the one leading the prayer over this man and it affected her so deeply that she hasn't been the same since. She's a full time missionary there now. The point is that God wants us to rely on Him and not on our selves or other people. He doesn't mind us going to to the doctor, that's fine, but He does mind if that's all we're doing. Just as with Asa, it wasn't that he sought a doctor, but that he "only" sought help from the doctors and not from the Lord as well. The Lord tells us: “This is what the LORD says: “Cursed is the one who trusts in man, who depends on flesh for his strength and whose heart turns away from the LORD.” (Jeremiah 17:5)
Remember, one of the apostles was a doctor so we know the Lord doesn't mind us seeing them: Col 4:14. Now when we read some of the descriptions of the times we live in, such as in 2 Timothy 3:1-5; Romans 1:28-32 ; and 2 Peter 2:10; even when we just look around us it's pretty obvious that most people have turned from God. Even when people are living in really difficult times such as right now, where do they turn? Do you see them rushing to church, or perhaps in the bookstores buying Bibles? I see them in book stores looking for books in the "Self help" aisle, or perhaps looking for advice from other men who are "experts" in economics, finances, medicine, etc. Those that have already tried those books tend to be looking in the aisles for alternative medicine, and eastern mystical religious practices such as yoga, holistic health, meditation, visualization etc. Their next step when even that hasn't changed anything isn't to turn to to God but to go deeper yet and get involved in psychics, witchcraft, pagan or eastern religions and things like that.
Yes, just like Asa and so many others in the bible, they turn only to men instead of God, which is what He will soon be sending judgments down on them for. (Rev 9:20–21 & Rev 16:9)
I had never quite thought of it this way before, but we have turned other people and even ourselves into our "gods". We have become every bit as idolatrous as Israel was when they worshiped Baal going directly against God's command: Deut 5:7. Think of the main phrase that the bible uses to describe people during these times: "lovers of themselves" and yet the Lord tells us: Matt 22:37–40. I sure don't see anything at all in there about loving yourself! In fact loving yourself is a lie from hell that the world has been shoving down people's throats for a long time now, especially using worldly psychology to do so. The world, including us unfortunately, is now reaping the awards for what it has sown by teaching that, for indeed people are now very much "lovers of themselves", so much so that their love for others including God, has turned cold just as God said it would.
God tells us that He will discipline those He loves, so when we, like Asa, forget to seek the Lord first and foremost when we're having a problem in any area of our life, (from our health, to our finances to our emotions, or whatever it might be) we can expect His discipline. Heb 12:5–6 & Rev 3:19.
Unfortunately though the vast majority of the world and of our own society are not born again and they are not going to repent even if they finally figure out what's going on. We know that from Revelation. So I'm afraid that the discipline is going to continue. I think the seeming increase in illness, disease, pain and disability is the Lord calling people to turn to Him as well as doctors. God does give us a promise though. Returning to what started this line of thinking, read with me what happened with Asa. See if you spot His promise to us. 2 Chron 16:7–13.
I have to go feed my cats and then I'll come back and show more about what I currently think about going to an unsaved doctor.
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Post by Cindy on Aug 23, 2021 11:14:52 GMT -5
Many of what we might call, "old school" doctors have now retired or just plain quit if they weren't old enough to retire. They did that because of the influx of all the quackery that's being called "medicine" today, and people who are calling themselves "doctors" who have never even been to a medical school. Even before these doctors left, there was already a shortage of doctors so they promoted nurses and called some of them "Physicians Assistants". You pay the same amount to see them as you do to see your doctor and they only have a little more medical knowledge then any other good nurse. Crazy isn't it? People have loved lies so much they're now being fed them when they go to the doctor and many don't even know it. Homeopathy is one of the biggest lies of all and yet many swear by it! I'm going to post some links that might help some folks discover the truth about many things that are accepted today:
The first link is to the biography of the person who started quackwatch and shows how very qualified he is. I'm not listing all of them, so you should also check out their affiliated sites and see the ones I haven't listed.
quackwatch.org/bio/
quackwatch.org/homeopathy/
quackwatch.org/chelation/
quackwatch.org/acupuncture/
quackwatch.org/allergy/
(remind me and I'll tell you my own experience going to an allergy doctor)
quackwatch.org/autism/
quackwatch.org/cancer/
quackwatch.org/dental/
quackwatch.org/fibromyalgia/
quackwatch.org/mental-health/
quackwatch.org/naturopathy/
quackwatch.org/nutrition/
quackwatch.org/pharmacy/
When quackwatch was first started there was only one website, now look at them all, even just the ones I listed! That should give you an idea of just how many lies people are buying into today in the health field alone. And this doesn't list things because they go against what the Bible teaches, although many of them are listed because they're founded on lies. Of course, because we've all been fed these lies for so long, most everyone will object to something they find on these pages. But if they're really interested in the truth, they'll leave behind what they've thought was true and listen to what is said on these pages. Christians should also remember that God does not want us to base our beliefs on experiences or emotions, but only on the Truth. I could also listed a ton of information just on things that go against what His Word teaches, but I don't have time for that, and doubt if anyone would read it anyway.
About seeing an unsaved doctor, I personally think we should do our best to see a doctor that's truly saved if there's any around. If there isn't any doctor that's truly been saved, then we will have to do careful research for ourselves about what's wrong with us, and be our own advocate as well. We'll have to let them know up front that we're Christian and will not do anything that goes against God's Word.
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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Post by fearnot on Aug 23, 2021 12:57:02 GMT -5
I am not sure,
but I think the promise,
in the Asa 2 Chron 16:7–13,
verses was:
"Yet when you relied on the Lord, he delivered them into your hand".
I looked at several of the quackwatch articles, the allergy one did not have much on peanuts ( I was thinking of Devon).
I looked at 2 or 3 others as well.
Looked at the vitamins and it must have been written a few years back,
because he said Vitamin K2 does not seem to be promoted....
well, in fact, it is.....especially now MK-7
But even so, some good points.
I read about 1/2 of it...it is very long.
Yes, it would be like finding hen's teeth to find a Christian doctor these days ( or a needle in a haystack).
I spent a lot of time looking at the site,
so I don't have a lot of energy,
to write much on the Bible study today.
But I will try for a few minutes anyway.
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