fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,440 
Member is Online
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Post by fearnot on Mar 30, 2021 11:38:59 GMT -5
My words will be in this color Today
and Biblical scriptures in this color today.
Today, I will start looking at your suggestion about the prayer of Jabez
you wrote:
Quote:
"The Prayer of Jabez.
Is the well known book and teaching, about this prayer true or false?
The scripture about it is as follows:
9 “Jabez was more honorable than his brothers.
His mother had named him Jabez, saying,
“I gave birth to him in pain.”
10 Jabez cried out to the God of Israel,
“Oh, that you would bless me and enlarge my territory!
Let your hand be with me,
and keep me from harm so that I will be free from pain.”
And God granted his request.”
(1 Chronicles 4:9–10)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Before, I get into the actual questions etc.
I just thought I would point out,
how God will sometimes,
add something like this verse,
into a long genealogical list.
Which is where we find this prayer,
in such a list.
The immensely popular book was titled:
The Prayer of Jabez,
by Dr. Bruce Wilkinson
He is a well known Bible teacher,
but exactly what was he teaching,
in this book that in 2 years sold over 9 million copies?
To begin with,
the sort of core message of his book,
is that Christians ought to use this recorded prayer
of Jabez, as a standard model,
in order to expect,
great blessing from God...
and also, to do great things for God.
The fact that Dr. Wilkinson,
highlights praying to God,
is a good thing.....
But is the way, he interprets
this verse,
and it application
true,
or can it even be dangerous?
I should point out, the rest of the title of his book:
"Breaking Through to the Blessed Life”.
Besides the prayer of Jabez,
this prayer ( in the Bible)
would 'seem'
to be in agreement....
with the idea that God wants to bless us in
this life,
greatly in our finances:
10 And the Lord restored the fortunes of Job,
when he had prayed for his friends.
And the Lord gave Job twice as much as he had before.
Job 42:10
But do these two men,
( and a few other wealthy persons,
in scripture, really mean,
that God wants all Christians to have
great material gain, in this life?)
Dr. Wilkinson states in his preface,
“I want to teach you how to pray
a daring prayer that God
always answers…
I believe it contains the key
to a life of extraordinary favor with God…."
Always answers?
Woah!
Does it actually say that in the Bible?
My understanding has always been,
God can say:
No
or
Wait
or
I have something better for you
( but that something 'better' for us in this life,
may definitely not always seem so,
like Paul's thorn in his flesh.
7 So to keep me from becoming conceited
because of the surpassing greatness of the revelations,
a thorn was given me in the flesh,
a messenger of Satan to harass me,
to keep me from becoming conceited.
2 Corinthians 12:7
In his book, Wilkinson encourages
a constant and continual looking to Jabez's prayer
to become 'prosperous' and materially blessed.
I see several 'issues' with that.
I will begin to look at them tomorrow
Done for today
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Post by Cindy on Mar 31, 2021 9:57:46 GMT -5
My words will be in this color Today
and Biblical scriptures in this color today.
Today, I will start looking at your suggestion about the prayer of Jabez
you wrote:
Quote:
"The Prayer of Jabez.
Is the well known book and teaching, about this prayer true or false?
The scripture about it is as follows:
9 “Jabez was more honorable than his brothers.
His mother had named him Jabez, saying,
“I gave birth to him in pain.”
10 Jabez cried out to the God of Israel,
“Oh, that you would bless me and enlarge my territory!
Let your hand be with me,
and keep me from harm so that I will be free from pain.”
And God granted his request.”
(1 Chronicles 4:9–10)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Before, I get into the actual questions etc.
I just thought I would point out,
how God will sometimes,
add something like this verse,
into a long genealogical list.
Which is where we find this prayer,
in such a list.
The immensely popular book was titled:
The Prayer of Jabez,
by Dr. Bruce Wilkinson
He is a well known Bible teacher,
but exactly what was he teaching,
in this book that in 2 years sold over 9 million copies?
To begin with,
the sort of core message of his book,
is that Christians ought to use this recorded prayer
of Jabez, as a standard model,
in order to expect,
great blessing from God...
and also, to do great things for God.
The fact that Dr. Wilkinson,
highlights praying to God,
is a good thing.....
But is the way, he interprets
this verse,
and it application
true,
or can it even be dangerous?
I should point out, the rest of the title of his book:
"Breaking Through to the Blessed Life”.
Besides the prayer of Jabez,
this prayer ( in the Bible)
would 'seem'
to be in agreement....
with the idea that God wants to bless us in
this life,
greatly in our finances:
10 And the Lord restored the fortunes of Job,
when he had prayed for his friends.
And the Lord gave Job twice as much as he had before.
Job 42:10
But do these two men,
( and a few other wealthy persons,
in scripture, really mean,
that God wants all Christians to have
great material gain, in this life?)
Dr. Wilkinson states in his preface,
“I want to teach you how to pray
a daring prayer that God
always answers…
I believe it contains the key
to a life of extraordinary favor with God…."
Always answers?
Woah!
Does it actually say that in the Bible?
My understanding has always been,
God can say:
No
or
Wait
or
I have something better for you
( but that something 'better' for us in this life,
may definitely not always seem so,
like Paul's thorn in his flesh.
7 So to keep me from becoming conceited
because of the surpassing greatness of the revelations,
a thorn was given me in the flesh,
a messenger of Satan to harass me,
to keep me from becoming conceited.
2 Corinthians 12:7
In his book, Wilkinson encourages
a constant and continual looking to Jabez's prayer
to become 'prosperous' and materially blessed.
I see several 'issues' with that.
I will begin to look at them tomorrow
Done for today
 Please please check out the list at the top of this forum though, ok? 
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,440
Member is Online
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Post by fearnot on Mar 31, 2021 10:57:09 GMT -5
Phew! So far so good then.... LOL
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,440
Member is Online
|
Post by fearnot on Mar 31, 2021 11:08:05 GMT -5
My words will be in this color
and Biblical scriptures in this color today.
This book,
The Prayer of Jabez, by Dr. Bruce Wilkinson ,
Has been a big influence
in some evangelical
and Pentecostal churches.
The influence it sparked is often know as:
The Prosperity Gospel
or
Name it and claim it.
But is this really what God wants for us?
I am not saying, God does not want to bless His children,
but how and when He does so,
is another question.
I think one of the many 'issues'
is that,
in the name it and claim theology...
your material blessing from God,
that claims God MUST answer
quote Wilkinson:
" pray a daring prayer that God always answers"
I think could lead a person to become even more
more self-centered,
selfish.
and build up one's covetous nature
Incline my heart to your testimonies,
and not to selfish gain!
Psalm 119:36
or this verse:
I said in my heart,
“Come now,
I will test you with pleasure;
enjoy yourself.”
But behold, this also was vanity.
Ecclesiastes 2:1
and
6 but she who is self-indulgent is dead even while she lives
I Timothy 5:8
it is not exactly that Dr. Bruce Wilkinson
created or encouraged
The Prosperity Gospel
Name it and Claim it
but his book became a 'big' influence!
So much so, that it got turned
many people to reciting the prayer of Jabez
daily,
like a 'mantra'
with the expectation,
that God is going to bless them also,
financially like He did for Jabez.
( God never said that ,
He would do this
for anyone,
who prayed like Jabez)
What He did say was:
7 “And when you are praying,
do not use meaningless repetition
as the Gentiles do,
for they suppose that they will be heard for their many words.
Matthew 6:7
They are not considering this:
3 You ask and do not receive,
because you ask wrongly,
to spend it on your passions.
James 4:3
And tho, God has and does promise blessing,
for the believer,
he also promises, there will be suffering.
Jesus said:
33 I have said these things to you,
that in me you may have peace.
In the world you will have tribulation.
But take heart; I have overcome the world.”
John 16:33
Jesus also said this:
24 Again I say to you,
it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle,
than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.”
Matthew 19:24
Jesus did not say, it was 'impossible',
but it would be harder....
because riches tend to bring
more temptations,
concerns,
and worries about 'things'...
and trying to gain even more
and more
money and stuff
etc.
and that doesn't allow much time for God or His Word.
19 but the worries of the world,
and the deceitfulness of riches,
and the desires for other things
enter in and choke the word,
and it becomes unfruitful.
Mark 4:18-20
Then there is the issue
of why would 'this' prayer
be elevated,
over many of the other prayers in the Bible?
Do we have a record of Jesus praying this prayer,
or for that matter,
anyone else in the Bible?
Another problem,
is this is kind of
cringe worthy....
in that
using this verse like a mantra for money...
is reminiscent, of treating God
like a genii in a bottle
who is bound to do your will
and give you what you ask.
Now Wilkinson, does talk about
getting great ministry opportunities,
What could go wrong with that?
Done for Today.
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Post by Cindy on Apr 1, 2021 9:16:36 GMT -5
My words will be in this color
and Biblical scriptures in this color today.
This book,
The Prayer of Jabez, by Dr. Bruce Wilkinson ,
Has been a big influence
in some evangelical
and Pentecostal churches.
The influence it sparked is often know as:
The Prosperity Gospel
or
Name it and claim it.
But is this really what God wants for us?
I am not saying, God does not want to bless His children,
but how and when He does so,
is another question.
I think one of the many 'issues'
is that,
in the name it and claim theology...
your material blessing from God,
that claims God MUST answer
quote Wilkinson:
" pray a daring prayer that God always answers"
I think could lead a person to become even more
more self-centered,
selfish.
and build up one's covetous nature
Incline my heart to your testimonies,
and not to selfish gain!
Psalm 119:36
or this verse:
I said in my heart,
“Come now,
I will test you with pleasure;
enjoy yourself.”
But behold, this also was vanity.
Ecclesiastes 2:1
and
6 but she who is self-indulgent is dead even while she lives
I Timothy 5:8
it is not exactly that Dr. Bruce Wilkinson
created or encouraged
The Prosperity Gospel
Name it and Claim it
but his book became a 'big' influence!
So much so, that it got turned
many people to reciting the prayer of Jabez
daily,
like a 'mantra'
with the expectation,
that God is going to bless them also,
financially like He did for Jabez.
( God never said that ,
He would do this
for anyone,
who prayed like Jabez)
What He did say was:
7 “And when you are praying,
do not use meaningless repetition
as the Gentiles do,
for they suppose that they will be heard for their many words.
Matthew 6:7
They are not considering this:
3 You ask and do not receive,
because you ask wrongly,
to spend it on your passions.
James 4:3
And tho, God has and does promise blessing,
for the believer,
he also promises, there will be suffering.
Jesus said:
33 I have said these things to you,
that in me you may have peace.
In the world you will have tribulation.
But take heart; I have overcome the world.”
John 16:33
Jesus also said this:
24 Again I say to you,
it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle,
than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.”
Matthew 19:24
Jesus did not say, it was 'impossible',
but it would be harder....
because riches tend to bring
more temptations,
concerns,
and worries about 'things'...
and trying to gain even more
and more
money and stuff
etc.
and that doesn't allow much time for God or His Word.
19 but the worries of the world,
and the deceitfulness of riches,
and the desires for other things
enter in and choke the word,
and it becomes unfruitful.
Mark 4:18-20
Then there is the issue
of why would 'this' prayer
be elevated,
over many of the other prayers in the Bible?
Do we have a record of Jesus praying this prayer,
or for that matter,
anyone else in the Bible?
Another problem,
is this is kind of
cringe worthy....
in that
using this verse like a mantra for money...
is reminiscent, of treating God
like a genii in a bottle
who is bound to do your will
and give you what you ask.
Now Wilkinson, does talk about
getting great ministry opportunities,
What could go wrong with that?
Done for Today.
|
|
fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,440
Member is Online
|
Post by fearnot on Apr 1, 2021 11:38:48 GMT -5
My words will be in this color
and Biblical scriptures in this color today.
To be successful in the Christian life,
really involves more,
than repeating just the same
2 verses of scripture
each and every day.
Nevertheless, one can get the impression
In Dr. Wilkinson's book,
The Prayer of Jabez.
you can use it to even to gain
'successful' ministry opportunities!
There are some 'wee' small problems
in life,
even in ministry for God.....
It is not always an exciting,
successful,
fairy tale like,
or a whirlwind,
of endless blessings.
Life can sometimes be
slow, plodding, mundane,
with little or no progress.....
and yet God wants us to be faithful,
even in very 'little' things:
10 “He who is faithful in a very little thing
is faithful also in much;
and he who is unrighteous in a very little thing
is unrighteous also in much.
Luke 16:10
To be of the opinion,
that spending a minute or two
saying or praying
2 verses in scripture,
each day ( Like a mantra)
in order to be successful in finances
or in ministry......
is a shallow belief,
that is close to living a life,
based on 'magic'
I would be very careful,
that God did not end up saying this to me:
“Stand fast now in your spells
And in your many sorceries
With which you have labored from your youth;
Perhaps you will be able to profit,
Perhaps you may cause trembling.
Isaiah 47:12
on that line of thinking:
receiving a lot of money,
success,
(even a great successful ministry)
etc.
Is not always an indication,
that God is pleased with such a person.
Often, many unsaved have many goods,
and worldly blessings,
and grand successes:
1 Righteous are You, O Lord,
that I would plead my case with You;
Indeed I would discuss matters of justice with You:
Why has the way of the wicked prospered?
Why are all those who deal in treachery at ease?
Jeremiah 12:1
And
Rest in the Lord and wait patiently for Him;
Do not fret because of him who prospers in his way,
Because of the man who carries out wicked schemes.
Psalm 37:7
Also
For I was envious of the arrogant
As I saw the prosperity of the wicked.
Psalm 73:3
Another problem is the chance
a Christian will overlook,
many many 'little' but vital,
blessings from the Lord
that He pours out every day
( like the air we breath,
fresh water,
the sun,
the rain,
a beautiful flower,
butterfly,
kitten,
child,
etc etc etc..
What if your ministry, has only reaped
one person saved out of a few years?
How do you know, if God will soon use that person,
to spread the gospel, to thousands?
If you think you need,
and must have a huge church,
thousand of people to fill it,
great music,
flashing lights
etc.
To have a successful ministry....
You might stop and wonder,
and question,
Could you be veering off away from God
and
are you holding a secular gathering perhaps?
It is not always true.....
but it is, a danger.
15 Then He said to them,
“Beware, and be on your guard
against every form of greed;
for not even when one has an abundance
does his life consist of his possessions.”
Luke 12:15
In reaching for
the extra....
extraordinary,
Superior,
grandiose,
phenomenal,
remarkable,
etc.
We are courting with conceit,
puffed up ego,
etc.
3 Do nothing from selfishness
or empty conceit,
but with humility of mind
regard one another as more important than yourselves;
Philippians 2:3
No matter for what purpose,
you hoping for,
that these 2 verse will warrant, and insure....
It borders on a dangerous magical 'gimmick'.
The idea is almost:
I put in a one minute prayer,
in the slot,
and God gives me,
a blessing.
This amounts to a formula relationship
with God.
I do this,
and you, God, in turn,
are bound and obligated,
to perform blessings, for me!
This is a very dangerous view of God and His Character.
It suggests God is prone to being manipulated
or worse,
we can even coerce Him, into doing
our will!
The very opposite of what Jesus Himself said:
36 And He was saying,
“Abba! Father!
All things are possible for You;
remove this cup from Me;
yet not what I will, but what You will.”
Mark 14:36
And then there is the unstated view of those
who don't succeed in browbeating God.
They are somehow spiritually inferior,
or greatly lacking faith.
Not all who are wealthy are evil,
yet, at the same time,
not all who are poor,
are 'lacking:
20 And turning His gaze toward His disciples,
He began to say,
“Blessed are you who are poor,
for yours is the kingdom of God.
21 Blessed are you who hunger now,
for you shall be satisfied.
Blessed are you who weep now,
for you shall laugh.
22 Blessed are you when men hate you,
and ostracize you,
and insult you,
and scorn your name as evil,
for the sake of the Son of Man.
23 Be glad in that day and leap for joy,
for behold, your reward is great in heaven.
For in the same way their fathers used to treat the prophets.
Luke 6:20-23
As for me, I would not recommend this book.
I think it's clear, we can pray God's Word back to Him....
even the prayer of Jabez.
I am of the opinion, it is a good thing,
to memorize God's words.
God's Words can bring
comfort,
peace,
encouragement,
help
etc.
in our life.
We can remember,
all types of scripture and verses
in our daily living.
I think we should do this.
But to use these two verses,
like a magic talismen,
to gain success
in whatever we want in life,
I think, that is very very dangerous.
Done for Today.
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,440
Member is Online
|
Post by fearnot on Apr 2, 2021 11:39:44 GMT -5
I think you suggested that I should work on a topic,
approx. a week.
Since it is Fri.
And I think I have covered this one,
tho I am sure I could work on it another week.
Still, I thought, I would do a really short one,
since, so much will be going on this weekend.
If you for some reason don't think,
I answered a question fully, tho,
I will certainly be willing to continue.
But for today, I thought I would work on this new one, over the weekend,
and maybe start yet another new one, next week, Monday.
I will start a new thread today titled:
Have any of the people who "died" and were resuscitated really gone to heaven or hell?
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Post by Cindy on Apr 4, 2021 9:08:10 GMT -5
My words will be in this color
and Biblical scriptures in this color today.
To be successful in the Christian life,
really involves more,
than repeating just the same
2 verses of scripture
each and every day.
Nevertheless, one can get the impression
In Dr. Wilkinson's book,
The Prayer of Jabez.
you can use it to even to gain
'successful' ministry opportunities!
There are some 'wee' small problems
in life,
even in ministry for God.....
It is not always an exciting,
successful,
fairy tale like,
or a whirlwind,
of endless blessings.
Life can sometimes be
slow, plodding, mundane,
with little or no progress.....
and yet God wants us to be faithful,
even in very 'little' things:
10 “He who is faithful in a very little thing
is faithful also in much;
and he who is unrighteous in a very little thing
is unrighteous also in much.
Luke 16:10
To be of the opinion,
that spending a minute or two
saying or praying
2 verses in scripture,
each day ( Like a mantra)
in order to be successful in finances
or in ministry......
is a shallow belief,
that is close to living a life,
based on 'magic'
I would be very careful,
that God did not end up saying this to me:
“Stand fast now in your spells
And in your many sorceries
With which you have labored from your youth;
Perhaps you will be able to profit,
Perhaps you may cause trembling.
Isaiah 47:12
on that line of thinking:
receiving a lot of money,
success,
(even a great successful ministry)
etc.
Is not always an indication,
that God is pleased with such a person.
Often, many unsaved have many goods,
and worldly blessings,
and grand successes:
1 Righteous are You, O Lord,
that I would plead my case with You;
Indeed I would discuss matters of justice with You:
Why has the way of the wicked prospered?
Why are all those who deal in treachery at ease?
Jeremiah 12:1
And
Rest in the Lord and wait patiently for Him;
Do not fret because of him who prospers in his way,
Because of the man who carries out wicked schemes.
Psalm 37:7
Also
For I was envious of the arrogant
As I saw the prosperity of the wicked.
Psalm 73:3
Another problem is the chance
a Christian will overlook,
many many 'little' but vital,
blessings from the Lord
that He pours out every day
( like the air we breath,
fresh water,
the sun,
the rain,
a beautiful flower,
butterfly,
kitten,
child,
etc etc etc..
What if your ministry, has only reaped
one person saved out of a few years?
How do you know, if God will soon use that person,
to spread the gospel, to thousands?
If you think you need,
and must have a huge church,
thousand of people to fill it,
great music,
flashing lights
etc.
To have a successful ministry....
You might stop and wonder,
and question,
Could you be veering off away from God
and
are you holding a secular gathering perhaps?
It is not always true.....
but it is, a danger.
15 Then He said to them,
“Beware, and be on your guard
against every form of greed;
for not even when one has an abundance
does his life consist of his possessions.”
Luke 12:15
In reaching for
the extra....
extraordinary,
Superior,
grandiose,
phenomenal,
remarkable,
etc.
We are courting with conceit,
puffed up ego,
etc.
3 Do nothing from selfishness
or empty conceit,
but with humility of mind
regard one another as more important than yourselves;
Philippians 2:3
No matter for what purpose,
you hoping for,
that these 2 verse will warrant, and insure....
It borders on a dangerous magical 'gimmick'.
The idea is almost:
I put in a one minute prayer,
in the slot,
and God gives me,
a blessing.
This amounts to a formula relationship
with God.
I do this,
and you, God, in turn,
are bound and obligated,
to perform blessings, for me!
This is a very dangerous view of God and His Character.
It suggests God is prone to being manipulated
or worse,
we can even coerce Him, into doing
our will!
The very opposite of what Jesus Himself said:
36 And He was saying,
“Abba! Father!
All things are possible for You;
remove this cup from Me;
yet not what I will, but what You will.”
Mark 14:36
And then there is the unstated view of those
who don't succeed in browbeating God.
They are somehow spiritually inferior,
or greatly lacking faith.
Not all who are wealthy are evil,
yet, at the same time,
not all who are poor,
are 'lacking:
20 And turning His gaze toward His disciples,
He began to say,
“Blessed are you who are poor,
for yours is the kingdom of God.
21 Blessed are you who hunger now,
for you shall be satisfied.
Blessed are you who weep now,
for you shall laugh.
22 Blessed are you when men hate you,
and ostracize you,
and insult you,
and scorn your name as evil,
for the sake of the Son of Man.
23 Be glad in that day and leap for joy,
for behold, your reward is great in heaven.
For in the same way their fathers used to treat the prophets.
Luke 6:20-23
As for me, I would not recommend this book.
I think it's clear, we can pray God's Word back to Him....
even the prayer of Jabez.
I am of the opinion, it is a good thing,
to memorize God's words.
God's Words can bring
comfort,
peace,
encouragement,
help
etc.
in our life.
We can remember,
all types of scripture and verses
in our daily living.
I think we should do this.
But to use these two verses,
like a magic talismen,
to gain success
in whatever we want in life,
I think, that is very very dangerous.
Done for Today.
 Well done! You did a good job explaining what was wrong with the book written about this prayer. But are you also saying that Jabez was wrong to pray the way he did? If so, what makes you think so? Sadly Wilkerson took this prayer out of context and made it into something it wasn't meant to be. God included the story of Jabez and his prayer for an important reason. It's to teach us something. I admit that the story is very short and we're not given hardly anything to go on, but see if you can determine what's right about Jabez and his prayer. “Jabez was more honorable than his brothers. His mother had named him Jabez, saying, “I gave birth to him in pain.” Jabez cried out to the God of Israel, “Oh, that you would bless me and enlarge my territory! Let your hand be with me, and keep me from harm so that I will be free from pain.” And God granted his request.” (1 Chronicles 4:9–10) Let me give you some clues from a commentary:
Jabez—was, as many think, the son of Coz, or Kenaz, and is here eulogized for his sincere and fervent piety, as well, perhaps, as for some public and patriotic works which he performed. The Jewish writers affirm that he was an eminent doctor in the law, whose reputation drew so many scribes around him that a town was called by his name (1Ch 2:55); and to the piety of his character this passage bears ample testimony. The memory of the critical circumstances which marked his birth was perpetuated in his name (compare Ge 35:15); and yet, in the development of his high talents or distinguished worth in later life, his mother must have found a satisfaction and delight that amply compensated for all her early trials. His prayer which is here recorded, and which, like Jacob’s, is in the form of a vow, seems to have been uttered when he was entering on an important or critical service, for the successful execution of which he placed confidence neither on his own nor his people’s prowess, but looked anxiously for the aid and blessing of God. The enterprise was in all probability the expulsion of the Canaanites from the territory he occupied.
I think you suggested that I should work on a topic,
approx. a week.
Since it is Fri.
And I think I have covered this one,
tho I am sure I could work on it another week.
Still, I thought, I would do a really short one,
since, so much will be going on this weekend.
If you for some reason don't think,
I answered a question fully, tho,
I will certainly be willing to continue.
But for today, I thought I would work on this new one, over the weekend,
and maybe start yet another new one, next week, Monday.
I will start a new thread today titled:
Have any of the people who "died" and were resuscitated really gone to heaven or hell? |
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,440
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Post by fearnot on Apr 4, 2021 10:41:42 GMT -5
Oh I see, I think, that is a good idea, start a new topic on Monday's.
Well since, I messed up,
I guess,
this week,
I can work on finishing this one,
and
the one on people who died etc.
Then....start a new one not tomorrow,
but the following Monday
right?
I am going to work on this, in the afternoon,
as we are going to church,
and I got up late :(
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fearnot
Living With Pain
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Post by fearnot on Apr 4, 2021 17:56:14 GMT -5
My words will be in this color today,
and Biblical Scriptures will be in this color today.
Another question might be,
once we determine,
we should not take the book of Jabez by Wilkinson,
as our guide
or end all,
of how to pray......
A person might ask:
Am I saying that Jabez
was wrong to pray the way he did?
This was what Jabez prayed:
Jabez called upon the God of Israel, saying,
“Oh that you would bless me
and enlarge my border,
and that your hand might be with me,
and that you would keep me from harm
so that it might not bring me pain!”
And God granted what he asked.
1 Chronicles 4:10
The Bible tells us this about Jabez:
9 Jabez was more honorable than his brothers;
and his mother called his name Jabez, saying,
“Because I bore him in pain.
1 Chronicles 4:9
One thing a believer can always do,
is talk to God,
about anything.
We can talk about
good things
or
bad things,
we can talk and pray to God about
joys, sorrows, hurts,
sins etc etc etc.
And we can talk to our Father often:
18 praying at all times in the Spirit,
with all prayer and supplication.
To that end, keep alert with all perseverance,
making supplication for all the saints,
Ephesians 6:18
I noticed, that the Bible did not say,
Jabez badgered God 'repeatedly' ,
to give him more,
wealth.
These verses do tell us,
that Jabez also asked for God to be with Him,
( I am thinking that as in a 'relationship').
These verses tell me that Jabez was more honorable....
so that does not sound like a scammer,
just trying to squeeze as much money out of God as possible.
I think it was more like this:
16 Therefore, confess your sins to one another
and pray for one another,
that you may be healed.
The prayer of a righteous person
has great power as it is working.
James 5:16
It seems perhaps Jabez was aware that material blessings
could have a negative result...
so he asked God to protect him against that.
I don't think, it was wrong for Jabez to pray this prayer,
and in fact,
the scripture also tells me.....
God granted what he asked.
That seems to indicate to me,
God was okay with the prayer.
It is not the prayer, that was or is wrong.....
it is it's using one prayer as a 'mantra',
demanding positive results,
materially....
That
kind of 'prayer'
is not talking with God,
but trying to use Him as a magic genii.
I think because Jabez was honorable,
he most likely,
acknowledged and honored God:
13 Whatever you ask in my name,
this I will do,
that the Father may be glorified in the Son
John 14:13.
I could be wrong,
but when Jabez asked God to be with him,
I think, he may have realized that,
to have God with him.....
was the greatest blessing,
of all.
Of course, the blessing of a 'home'
is indeed a good blessing,
for to have a place for a family, friends,
and a home with God in it,
is a kindness indeed.
That is a different prayer,
Then what many of the people
who bought the book
and gave their testimonies
told...
of how they have prayed that prayer
for 30 plus years,
and are enormously wealthy.
In fact, that,
would worry me....
who or what,
is answering their prayer?
Sometimes, God says
No
to a prayer
or
wait ( as in a LONG time):
7 And will not God give justice to his elect,
who cry to him day and night?
Luke 18:7
So, I do not think,
it was wrong for Jabez to pray
his prayer to God.
Nor would it even be wrong for a Christian
to pray for a home etc.
But prayed with this attitude:
42 saying, “Father, if you are willing,
remove this cup from me.
Nevertheless,
not my will,
but yours, be done.”
Luke 22:42
Done for today
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Post by Cindy on Apr 5, 2021 10:16:18 GMT -5
Oh I see, I think, that is a good idea, start a new topic on Monday's.
Well since, I messed up,
I guess,
this week,
I can work on finishing this one,
and
the one on people who died etc.
Then....start a new one not tomorrow,
but the following Monday
right?
I am going to work on this, in the afternoon,
as we are going to church,
and I got up late :( |
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,440
Member is Online
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Post by fearnot on Apr 5, 2021 10:39:07 GMT -5
I was thinking that because when you wrote:
"But are you also saying that Jabez was wrong to pray the way he did?
If so, what makes you think so?"
So, I thought you meant, I really had not finished it.
But....
since each topic is supposed to be a week each...
I couldn't be done in the middle of the week,
so then,
I would continue
But I was thinking I would work this week both on this
and the new one, I had started....
Because, I messed up the timing on both
But by next week, I would be able to start a new one.
However......
I guess, you are saying,
just work on those who had died topic....
or
Start a complete new one today?
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Post by Cindy on Apr 5, 2021 10:42:22 GMT -5
My words will be in this color today,
and Biblical Scriptures will be in this color today.
Another question might be,
once we determine,
we should not take the book of Jabez by Wilkinson,
as our guide
or end all,
of how to pray......
A person might ask:
Am I saying that Jabez
was wrong to pray the way he did?
This was what Jabez prayed:
Jabez called upon the God of Israel, saying,
“Oh that you would bless me
and enlarge my border,
and that your hand might be with me,
and that you would keep me from harm
so that it might not bring me pain!”
And God granted what he asked.
1 Chronicles 4:10
The Bible tells us this about Jabez:
9 Jabez was more honorable than his brothers;
and his mother called his name Jabez, saying,
“Because I bore him in pain.
1 Chronicles 4:9
One thing a believer can always do,
is talk to God,
about anything.
We can talk about
good things
or
bad things,
we can talk and pray to God about
joys, sorrows, hurts,
sins etc etc etc.
And we can talk to our Father often:
18 praying at all times in the Spirit,
with all prayer and supplication.
To that end, keep alert with all perseverance,
making supplication for all the saints,
Ephesians 6:18
I noticed, that the Bible did not say,
Jabez badgered God 'repeatedly' ,
to give him more,
wealth.
These verses do tell us,
that Jabez also asked for God to be with Him,
( I am thinking that as in a 'relationship').
These verses tell me that Jabez was more honorable....
so that does not sound like a scammer,
just trying to squeeze as much money out of God as possible.
I think it was more like this:
16 Therefore, confess your sins to one another
and pray for one another,
that you may be healed.
The prayer of a righteous person
has great power as it is working.
James 5:16
It seems perhaps Jabez was aware that material blessings
could have a negative result...
so he asked God to protect him against that.
I don't think, it was wrong for Jabez to pray this prayer,
and in fact,
the scripture also tells me.....
God granted what he asked.
That seems to indicate to me,
God was okay with the prayer.
It is not the prayer, that was or is wrong.....
it is it's using one prayer as a 'mantra',
demanding positive results,
materially....
That
kind of 'prayer'
is not talking with God,
but trying to use Him as a magic genii.
I think because Jabez was honorable,
he most likely,
acknowledged and honored God:
13 Whatever you ask in my name,
this I will do,
that the Father may be glorified in the Son
John 14:13.
I could be wrong,
but when Jabez asked God to be with him,
I think, he may have realized that,
to have God with him.....
was the greatest blessing,
of all.
Of course, the blessing of a 'home'
is indeed a good blessing,
for to have a place for a family, friends,
and a home with God in it,
is a kindness indeed.
That is a different prayer,
Then what many of the people
who bought the book
and gave their testimonies
told...
of how they have prayed that prayer
for 30 plus years,
and are enormously wealthy.
In fact, that,
would worry me....
who or what,
is answering their prayer?
Sometimes, God says
No
to a prayer
or
wait ( as in a LONG time):
7 And will not God give justice to his elect,
who cry to him day and night?
Luke 18:7
So, I do not think,
it was wrong for Jabez to pray
his prayer to God.
Nor would it even be wrong for a Christian
to pray for a home etc.
But prayed with this attitude:
42 saying, “Father, if you are willing,
remove this cup from me.
Nevertheless,
not my will,
but yours, be done.”
Luke 22:42
Done for today
The exhaustive dictionary of Bible names So we can understand now that he was asking God not to allow his name to characterize his destiny. Another thing that can often help us determine the meaning of a verse is to look at how different versions translate it. In this case, it shows that he is praying that his name won't define him, as we already said.
AV And Jabez called on the God of Israel, saying, Oh that thou wouldest bless me indeed, and enlarge my coast, and that thine hand might be with me, and that thou wouldest keep me from evil, that it may not grieve me!
NKJV And Jabez called on the God of Israel saying, “Oh, that You would bless me indeed, and enlarge my territory, that Your hand would be with me, and that You would keep me from evil, that I may not cause pain!” So God granted him what he requested.
NASB95 Now Jabez called on the God of Israel, saying, “Oh that You would bless me indeed and enlarge my border, and that Your hand might be with me, and that You would keep me from harm that it may not pain me!” And God granted him what he requested.
NET Jabez called out to the God of Israel, “If only you would greatly bless me and expand my territory! May your hand be with me! Keep me from harm so I might not endure pain!” God answered his prayer.
NIV Jabez cried out to the God of Israel, “Oh, that you would bless me and enlarge my territory! Let your hand be with me, and keep me from harm so that I will be free from pain.” And God granted his request.
LEB And Jabez called upon the God of Israel, saying, “Oh that you would surely bless me and enlarge my border. And may your hand be with me, that you would keep me from evil so that it might not harm me!” And God granted what he asked.
ESV Jabez called upon the God of Israel, saying, “Oh that you would bless me and enlarge my border, and that your hand might be with me, and that you would keep me from harm so that it might not bring me pain!” And God granted what he asked.
It looks like the NIV and ESV didn't do as well as some of the others this time. Some folks think that because some versions translate the beginning of the prayer to say "enlarge my borders" or "territory" that he must want more land. But people often used the word translated borders or territory etc to be about themselves. This is one of many used that way: “LORD, you have assigned me my portion and my cup; you have made my lot secure. The boundary lines have fallen for me in pleasant places; surely I have a delightful inheritance.” (Psalm 16:5–6)
And now it's time for a different study. |
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Post by Cindy on Apr 5, 2021 10:44:43 GMT -5
I was thinking that because when you wrote:
"But are you also saying that Jabez was wrong to pray the way he did?
If so, what makes you think so?"
So, I thought you meant, I really had not finished it.
But....
since each topic is supposed to be a week each...
I couldn't be done in the middle of the week,
so then,
I would continue
But I was thinking I would work this week both on this
and the new one, I had started....
Because, I messed up the timing on both
But by next week, I would be able to start a new one.
However......
I guess, you are saying,
just work on those who had died topic....
or
Start a complete new one today?
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,440
Member is Online
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Post by fearnot on Apr 5, 2021 10:55:50 GMT -5
The problem is,
I misunderstood the directions
from the start.
When you said
( I now see :(
you meant precisely....)
They should be
a week each...
exactly
I originally read it, as
'approximately'
a week each
not 'exactly',
a week each.
so then,
to me,
having misread it...
that meant either longer,
or
shorter than....
one week 'exactly'.
I was thinking,....
'approximately' a week
( which is not what you said,
but how I read it).
In my mind,
I was going on the idea...
it might be 5 days on one topic,
or even 9 days on another.
4 days, 10 days
but approximately
a week-ish
I think, I was so excited to get started,
I once again,
did a speed read,
on the directions.
Sorry!!!!
So,now I am not in a pickle....
as I already started
( in the middle of a week)
the did those who 'died'
really go to Heaven or Hell.
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Post by Cindy on Apr 6, 2021 10:29:26 GMT -5
The problem is,
I misunderstood the directions
from the start.
When you said
( I now see :(
you meant precisely....)
They should be
a week each...
exactly
I originally read it, as
'approximately'
a week each
not 'exactly',
a week each.
so then,
to me,
having misread it...
that meant either longer,
or
shorter than....
one week 'exactly'.
I was thinking,....
'approximately' a week
( which is not what you said,
but how I read it).
In my mind,
I was going on the idea...
it might be 5 days on one topic,
or even 9 days on another.
4 days, 10 days
but approximately
a week-ish
I think, I was so excited to get started,
I once again,
did a speed read,
on the directions.
Sorry!!!!
So,now I am not in a pickle....
as I already started
( in the middle of a week)
the did those who 'died'
really go to Heaven or Hell.
But, if you want, we could do it another way... you could start a new thread about your daily time with the Lord and then whenever you're really done with a topic on a Friday then for that weekend you could post in the daily time with the Lord thread. The "daily time with the Lord" thread could be your place to post when you've finished your study and need something else to post about for the weekend. Or you could just not post on the weekends (but still spend time with the Lord in His word). I know a long time ago you didn't want to just not post because you felt you needed to post in order to be kept accountable. So if you still feel that way, the daily time with the Lord thread could do that for you. Or you could just not post anything, and every Monday I could just ask you if you spent time in the Word on Saturday and Sunday.
Or, you could either start a new thread or send me a PM about something that's going on with you currently and do a bible study on that over the weekend. (of course if you needed help, we could continue on it during the week too).
You may have an even better idea, so I'll look forward to hearing what you have to say. 
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,440
Member is Online
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Post by fearnot on Apr 6, 2021 10:39:10 GMT -5
Just to be sure, I have read this correctly....
When you wrote:
"or you could just not post anything",
you meant in the daily time with the Lord thread,
I could start.....
or
did you mean also,
no longer do Bible studies?
In other words, not post in either thread?
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Post by Cindy on Apr 7, 2021 10:48:23 GMT -5
Just to be sure, I have read this correctly....
When you wrote:
"or you could just not post anything",
you meant in the daily time with the Lord thread,
I could start.....
or
did you mean also,
no longer do Bible studies?
In other words, not post in either thread?
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,440
Member is Online
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Post by fearnot on Apr 7, 2021 11:48:48 GMT -5
Got it!!! :)
Right....maybe I will do that.
I am a little leery that I might slip and slide off the rails.
I think the habit should be firmly entrenched by now tho.
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Please please check out the list at the top of this forum though, ok? 
!!
