fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383 
|
Post by fearnot on Jan 15, 2021 11:58:36 GMT -5
In Luke 13:1–5 Jesus speaks about atrocities and accidents.
How should his words be understood
and applied to the events of life today?
1 There were some present at that very time
who told him about the Galileans
whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices.
2 And he answered them,
“Do you think that these Galileans were worse sinners
than all the other Galileans,
because they suffered in this way?
3 No, I tell you; but unless you repent,
you will all likewise perish.
4 Or those eighteen on whom the tower in Siloam fell and killed them:
do you think that they were worse offenders
than all the others who lived in Jerusalem?
5 No, I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.”
Luke 13:1–5
So first of off, talking about the events today.
We are the first generation, to be constantly bombarded daily
with endless and relentless 'news' ( almost all 'bad')
via computers etc.
I am thinking in past generations
a person might only hear of a handful
of tragic events, in their whole lifetime.....
It is not that there were less horrific catastrophes
and calamities worldwide, in the past....
It is just that people did not know of all of them,
to the degree we do today.
Not so today,
not only, do we hear and see them
We often see them replayed,
over
and over
and over.
However, in this passage Jesus does talk about 2 such disasters.
I think, a question that often comes up when such calamities happens is:
Is this a judgment from God?
And if so, why?
Here are just a few verses:
but it is God who executes judgment,
putting down one
and lifting up another.
Psalm 75:7
also
8 therefore thus says the Lord God:
Behold, I,
even I,
am against you.
And I will execute judgments
in your midst
in the sight of the nations.
Ezekiel 5:8
Just one more ( there are LOTS!!)
7 And he said with a loud voice,
“Fear God and give him glory,
because the hour of his judgment has come,
and worship him who made heaven and earth,
the sea and the springs of water.”
Revelation 14:7
So back to Jesus and these 5 verses.
The Jews ( in the time of our Lord)
for the most part,
believed they were a unique and special people.
They were God's favorites!
God continually blessed them,
protected them,
loved them etc.
and kept them from judgments
and tragedies.
In fact, even way further back in time,
speaking to Job,
concerning his calamities,
Eliphaz the Temanite
basically says to Job:
Bad things don't happen to
'good' people .....
( implying Job had to be a grievous wicked depraved sinner
for all these sorrows to befall on Job!!)
7“Remember: who that was innocent ever perished?
Or where were the upright cut off?
8 As I have seen,
those who plow iniquity
and sow trouble
reap the same.
Job 4:7,8
The question might be:
Are there a class of people who really are:
innately good
and
another group who are
evil, by nature?
Have people made this distinction
in the past?
Are people doing so today?
I think almost every race or group
has been targeted at some point
in time ( as evil, and others considering themselves superior)
Today we are hearing a LOT about:
Critical race theory
social justice
and
intersectionality
Which I think, is just another continuation
of this same type of thinking.
So I will be looking at what Jesus says about this.
But even Jesus's disciples believed that if
bad things happened ,it was because
you were such a bad sinner,
as demonstrated, when they asked Jesus about a blind man:
1 And his disciples asked him,
2 “Rabbi, who sinned,
this man or his parents,
that he was born blind?”
John 9:1,2
So tomorrow I will look at these verses more closely
Done for Today
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Post by Cindy on Jan 16, 2021 11:50:31 GMT -5
In Luke 13:1–5 Jesus speaks about atrocities and accidents.
How should his words be understood
and applied to the events of life today?
1 There were some present at that very time
who told him about the Galileans
whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices.
2 And he answered them,
“Do you think that these Galileans were worse sinners
than all the other Galileans,
because they suffered in this way?
3 No, I tell you; but unless you repent,
you will all likewise perish.
4 Or those eighteen on whom the tower in Siloam fell and killed them:
do you think that they were worse offenders
than all the others who lived in Jerusalem?
5 No, I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.”
Luke 13:1–5
So first of off, talking about the events today.
We are the first generation, to be constantly bombarded daily
with endless and relentless 'news' ( almost all 'bad')
via computers etc.
I am thinking in past generations
a person might only hear of a handful
of tragic events, in their whole lifetime.....
It is not that there were less horrific catastrophes
and calamities worldwide, in the past....
It is just that people did not know of all of them,
to the degree we do today.
Not so today,
not only, do we hear and see them
We often see them replayed,
over
and over
and over.
However, in this passage Jesus does talk about 2 such disasters.
I think, a question that often comes up when such calamities happens is:
Is this a judgment from God?
And if so, why?
Here are just a few verses:
but it is God who executes judgment,
putting down one
and lifting up another.
Psalm 75:7
also
8 therefore thus says the Lord God:
Behold, I,
even I,
am against you.
And I will execute judgments
in your midst
in the sight of the nations.
Ezekiel 5:8
Just one more ( there are LOTS!!)
7 And he said with a loud voice,
“Fear God and give him glory,
because the hour of his judgment has come,
and worship him who made heaven and earth,
the sea and the springs of water.”
Revelation 14:7
So back to Jesus and these 5 verses.
The Jews ( in the time of our Lord)
for the most part,
believed they were a unique and special people.
They were God's favorites!
God continually blessed them,
protected them,
loved them etc.
and kept them from judgments
and tragedies.
In fact, even way further back in time,
speaking to Job,
concerning his calamities,
Eliphaz the Temanite
basically says to Job:
Bad things don't happen to
'good' people .....
( implying Job had to be a grievous wicked depraved sinner
for all these sorrows to befall on Job!!)
7“Remember: who that was innocent ever perished?
Or where were the upright cut off?
8 As I have seen,
those who plow iniquity
and sow trouble
reap the same.
Job 4:7,8
The question might be:
Are there a class of people who really are:
innately good
and
another group who are
evil, by nature?
Have people made this distinction
in the past?
Are people doing so today?
I think almost every race or group
has been targeted at some point
in time ( as evil, and others considering themselves superior)
Today we are hearing a LOT about:
Critical race theory
social justice
and
intersectionality
Which I think, is just another continuation
of this same type of thinking.
So I will be looking at what Jesus says about this.
But even Jesus's disciples believed that if
bad things happened ,it was because
you were such a bad sinner,
as demonstrated, when they asked Jesus about a blind man:
1 And his disciples asked him,
2 “Rabbi, who sinned,
this man or his parents,
that he was born blind?”
John 9:1,2
So tomorrow I will look at these verses more closely
Done for Today
Sounds like it will be interesting!  |
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
|
Post by fearnot on Jan 16, 2021 12:41:58 GMT -5
Aha! I have managed to confuse you again LOLOL
I think it's twofold
you are so tired.....
but more because, I just managed to be confusing.....again :(
What I meant was:
In one of the topics you suggested
there was 2 parts to the topic.
I broke that 2 part topic up.....
and decided to do the last part of the topic.
Here is what you posted ( In red is the part I choose...instead of doing the whole topic....I did the 2nd half)
See Nahum 2:13. It is a strange thing that many people do not have a thought for God
until a disaster occurs. Then, it is not uncommon to hear someone say,
‘If God is a God of love, why did he permit that to happen?’
What should the Christian’s response be to a statement like that?
In Luke 13:1–5 Jesus speaks about atrocities and accidents. How should his words be understood and applied to the events of life today?
I choose the Luke verses ( I could do the Nahum also
I too was just tired, so I broke it up
and did not write about both Nahum and Luke)
But I can if you really prefer
but I also was thinking there were 5 verses in Luke
so that seemed like enough to start on?
Anyway, Today, I will just keep on with the Luke
until directed else wise :)
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
|
Post by fearnot on Jan 16, 2021 12:49:03 GMT -5
Back to when, atrocities and other bad things happen,
and what Jesus answered concerning
two such incidents, that he was questioned about.
Also how does this have meaning for Christians today.
1 There were some present at that very time
who told him about the Galileans
whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices.
2 And he answered them,
“Do you think that these Galileans were worse sinners
than all the other Galileans,
because they suffered in this way?
3 No, I tell you; but unless you repent,
you will all likewise perish.
4 Or those eighteen on whom the tower in Siloam fell and killed them:
do you think that they were worse offenders
than all the others who lived in Jerusalem?
5 No, I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.”
Luke 13:1–5
So, in essence, the question deals with 'judgment'.
Are some people exempt?
So the first issue that came up was about
the Galileans whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices.
This governor, Pontius Pilate, was both insensitive, wicked, abusive, and extremely brutal.
And in this case, Pilate had come, with his soldiers,
to the temple, and slaughter these Galileans...
and their blood, mingled with the animal sacrifices,
they were in the midst of offering.
The Jews had a belief system,
that God only brings judgment on
people for some great sins,
but God did not judge the 'good' people.
You might think, that type of 'superiority'
thinking is not in the world today....
3 For by the grace given to me
I say to everyone among you
not to think of himself more highly
than he ought to think,.....
Romans 12:3
but....
you would be sadly mistaken.
This idea:
that one individual,
group
or race,
is more righteous than another...
This theory is alive and well....
and in fact.....
is really at the core of 'critical race theory',
which is becoming a big movement in our country today.
So when the Jews brought this incident up
Jesus knew their thinking
and He replied:
2 And he answered them,
“Do you think that these Galileans were worse sinners
than all the other Galileans,
because they suffered in this way?
Luke 13:2
Jesus did not ask if these men 'were sinners'
that they were sinners,
is a given....
( all men are sinners).
23 for all have sinned
and fall short of the glory of God,
Romans 3:23
Even so, these Jews were assuming,
that those men, that had died that way,
were GREATER sinners.
In verse three, Jesus puts that idea
to it's death...
He says: NO
No, they were NOT 'greater sinners',
and that is the reason why they died.
However, Jesus, goes on to make another point
about judgment, sin and repentance:
3 No, I tell you;
but unless you repent,
you will all likewise perish.
Luke 13:3
So we can see that these verses
do NOT mean,
that God does not
judge people.
What it does mean, is God does
not have some kind of sliding scale:
A scale that would say something like:
As long as you are not a 'terrible' sinner
God won't judge you.
Have you never heard a person reply,
when asked if they are a
'good person'
They answer:
Yes...
because
they never killed anyone,
or raped anyone,
or robbed a bank
etc etc etc.
If you ask that same person if they ever told a lie?
They often might answer;
Well, yes,
but...
it was a 'little white lie'...
As IF,
the size, color or intention of the lie
exonerated it.
However, this is NOT how God judges
sin:
10 For whoever keeps the whole law
but fails
in one point
has become guilty of all of it.
James 2:10
What?!!!???
How can that be?
Is God so severe?
I will look at that tomorrow,
in context of these verses.
Done for Today
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
|
Post by fearnot on Jan 17, 2021 11:49:45 GMT -5
Today being Sunday, may be a bit shorter,
as I have to get ready to go to church.
As a reminder, the topic is one you suggested, Cindy:
In Luke 13:1–5 Jesus speaks about atrocities and accidents.
How should his words be understood
and applied to the events of life today?
1 There were some present at that very time
who told him about the Galileans
whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices.
2 And he answered them,
“Do you think that these Galileans were worse sinners
than all the other Galileans,
because they suffered in this way?
3 No, I tell you; but unless you repent,
you will all likewise perish.
4 Or those eighteen on whom the tower in Siloam fell and killed them:
do you think that they were worse offenders
than all the others who lived in Jerusalem?
5 No, I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.”
Luke 13:1–5
However, today, I am going to look in a bit more depth,
concerning,
the last thing I wrote yesterday,
which was this:
However, this is NOT how God judges
sin:
10 For whoever keeps the whole law
but fails
in one point
has become guilty of all of it.
James 2:10
What?!!!???
How can that be?
Is God so severe?
There is so much to say about this,
and so little time....sigh!
I hardly know, where to begin,
and which thoughts to write down.
Let's just say, there was a human
( there never was, nor there never will be tho)
That not only, never committed a sinful act,
but also,
they ONLY once....
for a few seconds,
had only a sinful 'thought'
Why wouldn't God let that person in Heaven?
For you are not a God who delights in wickedness;
evil may not dwell with you.
Psalms 5:4
So many verses to chose from,
but here is one,
that would fit my example of:
an 'almost pure human':
15 To the pure, all things are pure,
but to the defiled and unbelieving,
nothing is pure;
but both their minds and their consciences are defiled.
Titus 1:15
Our reaction to,
just 'one tiny sinful' thought
( and no doubt the
same reaction the imaginary human,
who only had one sinful thought,)
would be, to say:
But it was ONLY one
and
ONLY for a few seconds
in a whole life time!!!!
And so we minimize it,
and make an excuse
to give it a pass....
But why can we not do give that a pass tho?
Because one infinitesimal sin WILL grow....
If it only happened once,
in a man life on earth
( who lived 70, or 80, or 90 years),
what do you think will happen in Heaven?
This man, he would live for ever and ever and ever in Heaven,
and that 'small 'sin if not repented of....
and paid for,
by the blood of Jesus....
will not be the last sin, he will ever sin.
The sins would multiple and would eventual become like this:
O my God,
I am ashamed and blush to lift my face to you,
my God,
for our iniquities have risen higher than our heads,
and our guilt has mounted up to the heavens.
Ezra 9:6
And who has always encouraged men to sugarcoat sin
or view God as waaaay to severe?
......“Did God actually say, ‘You shall not .......
Genesis 3:1
That would be Satan, the devil words.
The idea is God is too
extreme,
too judgmental,
too harsh,
unfair
intolerant
not compassionate
hurtful
cruel
etc etc etc.
We do not cry or mourn over such a small sin,
so why should God?
Come on!
Lighten up God!
As we shake our fists in God's face.
Instead we should respond this way
to even a sinful thought:
10 For godly grief produces a repentance
that leads to salvation without regret,...
2 Corinthians 7:10
There is so much more that could be said
but I am late arrggghhhh!
And how does all this relate to the main passage?
This is supposedly a 'special' righteous person,
and therefore, bad things should not happen to him ( or her)
So tomorrow back to Luke 15
Done for today
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Post by Cindy on Jan 18, 2021 10:25:48 GMT -5
Aha! I have managed to confuse you again LOLOL
I think it's twofold
you are so tired.....
but more because, I just managed to be confusing.....again :(
What I meant was:
In one of the topics you suggested
there was 2 parts to the topic.
I broke that 2 part topic up.....
and decided to do the last part of the topic.
Here is what you posted ( In red is the part I choose...instead of doing the whole topic....I did the 2nd half)
See Nahum 2:13. It is a strange thing that many people do not have a thought for God
until a disaster occurs. Then, it is not uncommon to hear someone say,
‘If God is a God of love, why did he permit that to happen?’
What should the Christian’s response be to a statement like that?
In Luke 13:1–5 Jesus speaks about atrocities and accidents. How should his words be understood and applied to the events of life today?
I choose the Luke verses ( I could do the Nahum also
I too was just tired, so I broke it up
and did not write about both Nahum and Luke)
But I can if you really prefer
but I also was thinking there were 5 verses in Luke
so that seemed like enough to start on?
Anyway, Today, I will just keep on with the Luke
until directed else wise :) I see now, thanks for explaining it to me. Well, how about including Nahum and it's question at the end of this? Would that work for you?
Back to when, atrocities and other bad things happen,
and what Jesus answered concerning
two such incidents, that he was questioned about.
Also how does this have meaning for Christians today.
1 There were some present at that very time
who told him about the Galileans
whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices.
2 And he answered them,
“Do you think that these Galileans were worse sinners
than all the other Galileans,
because they suffered in this way?
3 No, I tell you; but unless you repent,
you will all likewise perish.
4 Or those eighteen on whom the tower in Siloam fell and killed them:
do you think that they were worse offenders
than all the others who lived in Jerusalem?
5 No, I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.”
Luke 13:1–5
So, in essence, the question deals with 'judgment'.
Are some people exempt?
So the first issue that came up was about
the Galileans whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices.
This governor, Pontius Pilate, was both insensitive, wicked, abusive, and extremely brutal.
And in this case, Pilate had come, with his soldiers,
to the temple, and slaughter these Galileans...
and their blood, mingled with the animal sacrifices,
they were in the midst of offering.
The Jews had a belief system,
that God only brings judgment on
people for some great sins,
but God did not judge the 'good' people.
You might think, that type of 'superiority'
thinking is not in the world today....
3 For by the grace given to me
I say to everyone among you
not to think of himself more highly
than he ought to think,.....
Romans 12:3
but....
you would be sadly mistaken.
This idea:
that one individual,
group
or race,
is more righteous than another...
This theory is alive and well....
and in fact.....
is really at the core of 'critical race theory',
which is becoming a big movement in our country today.
So when the Jews brought this incident up
Jesus knew their thinking
and He replied:
2 And he answered them,
“Do you think that these Galileans were worse sinners
than all the other Galileans,
because they suffered in this way?
Luke 13:2
Jesus did not ask if these men 'were sinners'
that they were sinners,
is a given....
( all men are sinners).
23 for all have sinned
and fall short of the glory of God,
Romans 3:23
Even so, these Jews were assuming,
that those men, that had died that way,
were GREATER sinners.
In verse three, Jesus puts that idea
to it's death...
He says: NO
No, they were NOT 'greater sinners',
and that is the reason why they died.
However, Jesus, goes on to make another point
about judgment, sin and repentance:
3 No, I tell you;
but unless you repent,
you will all likewise perish.
Luke 13:3
So we can see that these verses
do NOT mean,
that God does not
judge people.
What it does mean, is God does
not have some kind of sliding scale:
A scale that would say something like:
As long as you are not a 'terrible' sinner
God won't judge you.
Have you never heard a person reply,
when asked if they are a
'good person'
They answer:
Yes...
because
they never killed anyone,
or raped anyone,
or robbed a bank
etc etc etc.
If you ask that same person if they ever told a lie?
They often might answer;
Well, yes,
but...
it was a 'little white lie'...
As IF,
the size, color or intention of the lie
exonerated it.
However, this is NOT how God judges
sin:
10 For whoever keeps the whole law
but fails
in one point
has become guilty of all of it.
James 2:10
What?!!!???
How can that be?
Is God so severe?
I will look at that tomorrow,
in context of these verses.
Done for Today
Today being Sunday, may be a bit shorter,
as I have to get ready to go to church.
As a reminder, the topic is one you suggested, Cindy:
In Luke 13:1–5 Jesus speaks about atrocities and accidents.
How should his words be understood
and applied to the events of life today?
1 There were some present at that very time
who told him about the Galileans
whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices.
2 And he answered them,
“Do you think that these Galileans were worse sinners
than all the other Galileans,
because they suffered in this way?
3 No, I tell you; but unless you repent,
you will all likewise perish.
4 Or those eighteen on whom the tower in Siloam fell and killed them:
do you think that they were worse offenders
than all the others who lived in Jerusalem?
5 No, I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.”
Luke 13:1–5
However, today, I am going to look in a bit more depth,
concerning,
the last thing I wrote yesterday,
which was this:
However, this is NOT how God judges
sin:
10 For whoever keeps the whole law
but fails
in one point
has become guilty of all of it.
James 2:10
What?!!!???
How can that be?
Is God so severe?
There is so much to say about this,
and so little time....sigh!
I hardly know, where to begin,
and which thoughts to write down.
Let's just say, there was a human
( there never was, nor there never will be tho)
That not only, never committed a sinful act,
but also,
they ONLY once....
for a few seconds,
had only a sinful 'thought'
Why wouldn't God let that person in Heaven?
For you are not a God who delights in wickedness;
evil may not dwell with you.
Psalms 5:4
So many verses to chose from,
but here is one,
that would fit my example of:
an 'almost pure human':
15 To the pure, all things are pure,
but to the defiled and unbelieving,
nothing is pure;
but both their minds and their consciences are defiled.
Titus 1:15
Our reaction to,
just 'one tiny sinful' thought
( and no doubt the
same reaction the imaginary human,
who only had one sinful thought,)
would be, to say:
But it was ONLY one
and
ONLY for a few seconds
in a whole life time!!!!
And so we minimize it,
and make an excuse
to give it a pass....
But why can we not do give that a pass tho?
Because one infinitesimal sin WILL grow....
If it only happened once,
in a man life on earth
( who lived 70, or 80, or 90 years),
what do you think will happen in Heaven?
This man, he would live for ever and ever and ever in Heaven,
and that 'small 'sin if not repented of....
and paid for,
by the blood of Jesus....
will not be the last sin, he will ever sin.
The sins would multiple and would eventual become like this:
O my God,
I am ashamed and blush to lift my face to you,
my God,
for our iniquities have risen higher than our heads,
and our guilt has mounted up to the heavens.
Ezra 9:6
And who has always encouraged men to sugarcoat sin
or view God as waaaay to severe?
......“Did God actually say, ‘You shall not .......
Genesis 3:1
That would be Satan, the devil words.
The idea is God is too
extreme,
too judgmental,
too harsh,
unfair
intolerant
not compassionate
hurtful
cruel
etc etc etc.
We do not cry or mourn over such a small sin,
so why should God?
Come on!
Lighten up God!
As we shake our fists in God's face.
Instead we should respond this way
to even a sinful thought:
10 For godly grief produces a repentance
that leads to salvation without regret,...
2 Corinthians 7:10
There is so much more that could be said
but I am late arrggghhhh!
And how does all this relate to the main passage?
This is supposedly a 'special' righteous person,
and therefore, bad things should not happen to him ( or her)
So tomorrow back to Luke 15
Done for today
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
|
Post by fearnot on Jan 18, 2021 10:56:41 GMT -5
Thank you Cindy!!!!!! :)
yes, I will include the other verse after the Luke ones :)
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
|
Post by fearnot on Jan 18, 2021 10:59:53 GMT -5
Back to when, atrocities and other bad things happen,
and what Jesus answered concerning
two such incidents, that he was questioned about.
Also how does this have meaning for Christians today.
1 There were some present at that very time
who told him about the Galileans
whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices.
2 And he answered them,
“Do you think that these Galileans were worse sinners
than all the other Galileans,
because they suffered in this way?
3 No, I tell you; but unless you repent,
you will all likewise perish.
4 Or those eighteen on whom the tower in Siloam fell and killed them:
do you think that they were worse offenders
than all the others who lived in Jerusalem?
5 No, I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.”
Luke 13:1–5
Sin is an equalizer.
There are no people exempt from it....
everybody is a sinner,
from the drunk in the gutter
to the multi-zillionaire.
23 for all have sinned
and fall short of the glory of God,
Romans 3:23
But what about a group catastrophic calamity,
such as the murdered Galileans?
Was God angry at them,
because they were 'super sinners'?
There have been times when God has done that,
like the flood of Noah, Sodom and Gomorrah etc.
On the other hand, in wars, natural disasters etc.
both believers and wicked sinners, all die together.
So there is no room for foolish pride,
thinking we are superior
Like the foolish Pharisee:
11 The Pharisee, standing by himself, prayed thus:
‘God, I thank you that I am not like other men,
extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector.
Luke 18:11
Do we not say similar things today?
Ask someone if they think they are a 'good' person.
Most will say:
Yes.
And why do they think that?
Well, they will say because they are not ,
serial killers, rapists, thieves, child molesters etc.
Nevertheless, people will rage and get angry at God
for all manner of things.
What we really need to be pondering,
is why does He allow anyone to live?
What is essential is to be aware,
death is right around the corner
for all of us,
and
we are ALL sinners.
27 And just as it is appointed for man to die once,
and after that comes judgment,
Hebrews 9:27
Don't be fooled, God does HATE sin,
However this verse is also true:
9 The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise
as some count slowness,
but is patient toward you,
not wishing that any should perish,
but that all should reach repentance.
2 Peter 3:9
Which bring us back to Luke 13:3
3 No, I tell you; but unless you repent,
you will all likewise perish.
Luke 13:3
Feeling superior, entitled, better than others
was not just limited to these people,
sometimes thought of as being
'ignorant', ancient people.
Oh no!
self-satisfaction, and looking down on others,
has never ever ended.
Like I have mentioned before,
we see it rearing its ugly head yet again,
in critical race theory....
different group targeted,
but same poor, bad, evil 'theology'.
Jesus gives people a clear warning about this
superior, entitled attitude.....
when He warns ( everyone really)...
"UNLESS you REPENT"
What do they,
and we today,
need to repent of?
Actually a LOT!
I think (especially in this case), of seeing
'others' as the 'great' sinners,
and oneself,
or one's group
or race
etc.
as superior and entitled.
And therefore,
those who see themselves as superior,
with hardened hearts
and thus they end up lacking:
mercy, compassion, forgiveness, love etc.
7 Therefore, as the Holy Spirit says,
“Today, if you hear his voice,
8 do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion,
on the day of testing in the wilderness,
Hebrews 3:7,8
We must see things from God's perspective.
Also most people generally need to repent of their whole life style.
Jesus makes it clear, that if we do not repent:
"you will all likewise perish"
I will look at the next verses tomorrow
Done for Today.
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|
fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
|
Post by fearnot on Jan 19, 2021 12:08:20 GMT -5
Back to when, atrocities and other bad things happen,
and what Jesus answered concerning
two such incidents, that he was questioned about.
I will look at the 2nd incident today and also try to get to the first part,
you suggested, which was this:
See Nahum 2:13. It is a strange thing that many people do not have a thought for God
until a disaster occurs. Then, it is not uncommon to hear someone say,
‘If God is a God of love, why did he permit that to happen?’
What should the Christian’s response be to a statement like that?
Also how does this have meaning for Christians today.
Here are the Luke verses again:
1 There were some present at that very time
who told him about the Galileans
whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices.
2 And he answered them,
“Do you think that these Galileans were worse sinners
than all the other Galileans,
because they suffered in this way?
3 No, I tell you; but unless you repent,
you will all likewise perish.
4 Or those eighteen on whom the tower in Siloam fell and killed them:
do you think that they were worse offenders
than all the others who lived in Jerusalem?
5 No, I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.”
Luke 13:1–5
In the first event, it was humans,
Pilate and his soldiers,
who did the murdering/killing/massacre.
There is a difference, in the 2nd situation,
where death occurs, because, there was no human
that caused the deaths.
The tower in Siloam ( for whatever reason),
fell, and 18 people died.
That would normally be considered:
a 'natural' act of nature
etc.
In any case, the tower fell,
and killed the 18 people, that were near it,
when it fell.
However,....
from the Jews perspective,
The people who died,
were,
after all,
'inferior' Galileans......
and thus God judged them...
right?
Jesus makes it clear,
that just because you are alive,
and they have died,
does NOT mean:
You are 'good'
and they are 'evil'.
Nor does that mean,
that just being alive, now....
that guarantees you will be free
of judgment,
when you do die.
27 And just as it is appointed for man to die once,
and after that comes judgment,
Hebrews 9:27
Instead, Jesus says:
5 No, I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.”
Luke 13:5
And this applies also
30 “Therefore I will judge you,
O house of Israel,
every one according to his ways,
declares the Lord God.
Repent and turn from all your transgressions,
lest iniquity be your ruin.
Ezekiel 18:30
The real tragedy, is NOT that you will die,
( in one way, or another)
that is a given, a certainty.
Rather,
the real calamity is:
the judgment
you WILL face,
IF you have not repented
BEFORE you die.
We need to be secure and safe in Jesus,
before, death.
27 My sheep ( believers) hear my voice,
and I know them,
and they follow me.
28 I give them eternal life,
and they will never perish,
and no one will snatch them out of my hand.
John 10:27,28
As an added note,
because Jesus said,
that those Galileans that died ......'perished'
3 No, I tell you; but unless you repent,
you will all likewise perish.
Luke 13:3
The ( Galileans, that died in the 2 events),
were most likely NOT believers in Jesus,
and thus, did not go to Heaven,
because,
they died in their sins....
Not necessarily,
because their sins
were so much worse than the
unbelieving Jews tho.
4 Or those eighteen on whom the tower in Siloam fell and killed them:
do you think that they were worse offenders
than all the others who lived in Jerusalem?
Luke 13:4
Jesus is saying,
it is not a given
that they were WORST offenders.
Offenders?
Yes, most likely,
but not necessarily the WORST!
Now for the Nahum example:
See Nahum 2:13.
13 Behold, I am against you,
declares the Lord of hosts,
and I will burn your chariots in smoke,
and the sword shall devour your young lions.
I will cut off your prey from the earth,
and the voice of your messengers shall no longer be heard.
Nahum 2:13
You wrote:
It is a strange thing that many people do not have a thought for God
until a disaster occurs.
Then, it is not uncommon to hear someone say,
‘If God is a God of love, why did he permit that to happen?’
What should the Christian’s response be to a statement like that?
In this Nahum passage of scripture,
we see that God is against sinful man.
. Sin alienates man from God.
It does not matter what color you are, where you live,
how rich or poor, how smart you are etc.
If people refuse to acknowledge God,
continue to mock Him,
sin with impunity,
never repent,
never accept Jesus as their Savior and Lord,
then they will no go to the Heaven, they scorned.
When a disaster happens,
and then they blame God,
for not being loving...
What are they talking about?
When He has been holding out His hand in love, to them
all the time before the tragedy....
They had consistently refused God,
and now they blame Him, for not being loving?
They find it repugnant that God should be angry?
( although they allow it for themselves daily).
However, God IS angry at sin,
and hates sin.
For you are not a God who delights in wickedness;
evil may not dwell with you.
Psalms 5:4
But this is just a 'little' of what sinners are like:
28 And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God,
God gave them up to a debased mind
to do what ought not to be done.
29 They were filled with all manner of
unrighteousness,
evil,
covetousness,
malice.
They are full of
envy,
murder,
strife,
deceit,
maliciousness.
They are gossips,
30 slanderers,
haters of God,
insolent,
haughty,
boastful,
inventors of evil,
disobedient to parents,
31 foolish,
faithless,
heartless,
ruthless.
32 Though they know God's righteous decree
that those who practice such things deserve to die,
they not only do them
but give approval to those who practice them.
Romans 1:28-32
So now they continue to be insolent
and accuse God of not being loving?
Was God to have just winked at all their depraved sins?
When all they have done is mock Him
and spit on Him
and only use His name to swear with?
etc etc etc.
I guess, I am at a bit of a loss
at what to say...today
I may need an attitude adjustment
and perhaps this is where
you need to post for me
the correct way to answer
I feel like, I am partial right
and yet.....
that may not be correct way
to be loving an unbeliever,
and helping them draw near to Christ.
I think it might depend on,
if they are truly asking due to sincere confusion,
or
just more mocking, anger and hatred of God?
I also think, they might instead have asked:
Why has God been so loving and good to us
up until now?
Why didn't He just destroy us all a LONG time ago?
Done for Today.
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Post by Cindy on Jan 19, 2021 12:45:56 GMT -5
Back to when, atrocities and other bad things happen,
and what Jesus answered concerning
two such incidents, that he was questioned about.
Also how does this have meaning for Christians today.
1 There were some present at that very time
who told him about the Galileans
whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices.
2 And he answered them,
“Do you think that these Galileans were worse sinners
than all the other Galileans,
because they suffered in this way?
3 No, I tell you; but unless you repent,
you will all likewise perish.
4 Or those eighteen on whom the tower in Siloam fell and killed them:
do you think that they were worse offenders
than all the others who lived in Jerusalem?
5 No, I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.”
Luke 13:1–5
Sin is an equalizer.
There are no people exempt from it....
everybody is a sinner,
from the drunk in the gutter
to the multi-zillionaire.
23 for all have sinned
and fall short of the glory of God,
Romans 3:23
But what about a group catastrophic calamity,
such as the murdered Galileans?
Was God angry at them,
because they were 'super sinners'?
There have been times when God has done that,
like the flood of Noah, Sodom and Gomorrah etc.
On the other hand, in wars, natural disasters etc.
both believers and wicked sinners, all die together.
So there is no room for foolish pride,
thinking we are superior
Like the foolish Pharisee:
11 The Pharisee, standing by himself, prayed thus:
‘God, I thank you that I am not like other men,
extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector.
Luke 18:11
Do we not say similar things today?
Ask someone if they think they are a 'good' person.
Most will say:
Yes.
And why do they think that?
Well, they will say because they are not ,
serial killers, rapists, thieves, child molesters etc.
Nevertheless, people will rage and get angry at God
for all manner of things.
What we really need to be pondering,
is why does He allow anyone to live?
What is essential is to be aware,
death is right around the corner
for all of us,
and
we are ALL sinners.
27 And just as it is appointed for man to die once,
and after that comes judgment,
Hebrews 9:27
Don't be fooled, God does HATE sin,
However this verse is also true:
9 The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise
as some count slowness,
but is patient toward you,
not wishing that any should perish,
but that all should reach repentance.
2 Peter 3:9
Which bring us back to Luke 13:3
3 No, I tell you; but unless you repent,
you will all likewise perish.
Luke 13:3
Feeling superior, entitled, better than others
was not just limited to these people,
sometimes thought of as being
'ignorant', ancient people.
Oh no!
self-satisfaction, and looking down on others,
has never ever ended.
Like I have mentioned before,
we see it rearing its ugly head yet again,
in critical race theory....
different group targeted,
but same poor, bad, evil 'theology'.
Jesus gives people a clear warning about this
superior, entitled attitude.....
when He warns ( everyone really)...
"UNLESS you REPENT"
What do they,
and we today,
need to repent of?
Actually a LOT!
I think (especially in this case), of seeing
'others' as the 'great' sinners,
and oneself,
or one's group
or race
etc.
as superior and entitled.
And therefore,
those who see themselves as superior,
with hardened hearts
and thus they end up lacking:
mercy, compassion, forgiveness, love etc.
7 Therefore, as the Holy Spirit says,
“Today, if you hear his voice,
8 do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion,
on the day of testing in the wilderness,
Hebrews 3:7,8
We must see things from God's perspective.
Also most people generally need to repent of their whole life style.
Jesus makes it clear, that if we do not repent:
"you will all likewise perish"
I will look at the next verses tomorrow
Done for Today.
 Since I was just writing about what's been happening politically this rang true about that too, when you said: "What do they,
and we today,
need to repent of?
Actually a LOT!
I think (especially in this case), of seeing 'others' as the 'great' sinners,
and oneself,
or one's group
or race
etc. as superior and entitled." Now think of that in regards to how people today are pitting themselves against each other, not about Jesus, but about who they voted for for president! You described their behavior toward each other perfectly. Each side considers themselves superior, smarter, more intelligent, etc and sees the other side as being idiots, and any number of other derogatory terms that they constantly call each other. And the worst part of it is that this is being done by Christians toward other Christians and toward the unsaved!!! Satan has made terrific inroads into the Church with politics over the last 20 years or so. We've never seen this kind of hate toward those who voted differently before Obama ran for president. So it's hasn't been going on all that long. I'm sure the Lord hates what's happened. Can you imagine an unsaved person even listening to a supposed Christian who's called them names and put them down, tell them about the gospel? There's no way they will! And do you think any unsaved person who has been treated that way by someone that calls themselves a Christian will think anything good about any church or any Christian ever again? Hardly! It will take a long time for them to get over how they've been treated. Or how about how a Christian has treated a fellow Christian? Do you think that if they go to the same Church that one of them just might stop going there? But where can they find a Church any more where there won't be many who will treat them the same way for the same reason? I hate what's happened and is continuing to happen. I hate how it brings dishonor to our Lord's name and how it hurts His children and turns others who might be saved away from Him. I hate how it gives all Christians a bad name and makes people think that the most important thing in the world to us is politics, when God should hold that place in our hearts, our minds, and our lives. Sadly a large number of Christians today, don't look anything like the way our Lord told us we should look like. (John 15:12–14; 1 John 2:9–11; 1 John 3:14–18; Matthew 22:39; Luke 10:29–37)
Back to when, atrocities and other bad things happen,
and what Jesus answered concerning
two such incidents, that he was questioned about.
I will look at the 2nd incident today and also try to get to the first part,
you suggested, which was this:
See Nahum 2:13. It is a strange thing that many people do not have a thought for God
until a disaster occurs. Then, it is not uncommon to hear someone say,
‘If God is a God of love, why did he permit that to happen?’
What should the Christian’s response be to a statement like that?
Also how does this have meaning for Christians today.
Here are the Luke verses again:
1 There were some present at that very time
who told him about the Galileans
whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices.
2 And he answered them,
“Do you think that these Galileans were worse sinners
than all the other Galileans,
because they suffered in this way?
3 No, I tell you; but unless you repent,
you will all likewise perish.
4 Or those eighteen on whom the tower in Siloam fell and killed them:
do you think that they were worse offenders
than all the others who lived in Jerusalem?
5 No, I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.”
Luke 13:1–5
In the first event, it was humans,
Pilate and his soldiers,
who did the murdering/killing/massacre.
There is a difference, in the 2nd situation,
where death occurs, because, there was no human
that caused the deaths.
The tower in Siloam ( for whatever reason)
that would normally be considered 'natural'
or an act of nature etc.
In any case, the tower fell,
and killed the 18 people, that where near it,
when it fell.
However,....
from the Jews perspective,
the people who died,
were, after all,
'inferior' Galileans,
and thus God judged them...right?
Jesus makes it clear, that just because you are alive,
and they have died means,
you are 'good'
and they are 'evil'.
and that just being alive now....
Does not mean you will not be free
of judgment when you do die.
27 And just as it is appointed for man to die once,
and after that comes judgment,
Hebrews 9:27
Jesus makes it clear, that just because you are alive,
and they have died means,
(should say "does not mean")
you are 'good'
and they are 'evil'.
and that just being alive now....
Does not mean you will not be free
of judgment when you do die.
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
|
Post by fearnot on Jan 20, 2021 12:26:47 GMT -5
How strange....I did finish it and posted it
AND
I went to my history and found the whole post
why did it not show up tho
Yes, I corrected that yesterday
I had not finished what you saw
but about an hour or two later I had
But it never showed up
So I will re-post it now
and since you didn't get to comment
I did not know if you thought this was done
arrrggghhhh
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
|
Post by fearnot on Jan 20, 2021 12:28:51 GMT -5
Back to when, atrocities and other bad things happen,
and what Jesus answered concerning
two such incidents, that he was questioned about.
I will look at the 2nd incident today and also try to get to the first part,
you suggested, which was this:
See Nahum 2:13. It is a strange thing that many people do not have a thought for God
until a disaster occurs. Then, it is not uncommon to hear someone say,
‘If God is a God of love, why did he permit that to happen?’
What should the Christian’s response be to a statement like that?
Also how does this have meaning for Christians today.
Here are the Luke verses again:
1 There were some present at that very time
who told him about the Galileans
whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices.
2 And he answered them,
“Do you think that these Galileans were worse sinners
than all the other Galileans,
because they suffered in this way?
3 No, I tell you; but unless you repent,
you will all likewise perish.
4 Or those eighteen on whom the tower in Siloam fell and killed them:
do you think that they were worse offenders
than all the others who lived in Jerusalem?
5 No, I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.”
Luke 13:1–5
In the first event, it was humans,
Pilate and his soldiers,
who did the murdering/killing/massacre.
There is a difference, in the 2nd situation,
where death occurs, because, there was no human
that caused the deaths.
The tower in Siloam ( for whatever reason),
fell, and 18 people died.
That would normally be considered:
a 'natural' act of nature
etc.
In any case, the tower fell,
and killed the 18 people, that were near it,
when it fell.
However,....
from the Jews perspective,
The people who died,
were,
after all,
'inferior' Galileans......
and thus God judged them...
right?
Jesus makes it clear,
that just because you are alive,
and they have died,
does NOT mean:
You are 'good'
and they are 'evil'.
Nor does that mean,
that just being alive, now....
that guarantees you will be free
of judgment,
when you do die.
27 And just as it is appointed for man to die once,
and after that comes judgment,
Hebrews 9:27
Instead, Jesus says:
5 No, I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.”
Luke 13:5
And this applies also
30 “Therefore I will judge you,
O house of Israel,
every one according to his ways,
declares the Lord God.
Repent and turn from all your transgressions,
lest iniquity be your ruin.
Ezekiel 18:30
The real tragedy, is NOT that you will die,
( in one way, or another)
that is a given, a certainty.
Rather,
the real calamity is:
the judgment
you WILL face,
IF you have not repented
BEFORE you die.
We need to be secure and safe in Jesus,
before, death.
27 My sheep ( believers) hear my voice,
and I know them,
and they follow me.
28 I give them eternal life,
and they will never perish,
and no one will snatch them out of my hand.
John 10:27,28
As an added note,
because Jesus said,
that those Galileans that died ......'perished'
3 No, I tell you; but unless you repent,
you will all likewise perish.
Luke 13:3
The ( Galileans, that died in the 2 events),
were most likely NOT believers in Jesus,
and thus, did not go to Heaven,
because,
they died in their sins....
Not necessarily,
because their sins
were so much worse than the
unbelieving Jews tho.
4 Or those eighteen on whom the tower in Siloam fell and killed them:
do you think that they were worse offenders
than all the others who lived in Jerusalem?
Luke 13:4
Jesus is saying,
it is not a given
that they were WORST offenders.
Offenders?
Yes, most likely,
but not necessarily the WORST!
Now for the Nahum example:
See Nahum 2:13.
13 Behold, I am against you,
declares the Lord of hosts,
and I will burn your chariots in smoke,
and the sword shall devour your young lions.
I will cut off your prey from the earth,
and the voice of your messengers shall no longer be heard.
Nahum 2:13
You wrote:
It is a strange thing that many people do not have a thought for God
until a disaster occurs.
Then, it is not uncommon to hear someone say,
‘If God is a God of love, why did he permit that to happen?’
What should the Christian’s response be to a statement like that?
In this Nahum passage of scripture,
we see that God is against sinful man.
. Sin alienates man from God.
It does not matter what color you are, where you live,
how rich or poor, how smart you are etc.
If people refuse to acknowledge God,
continue to mock Him,
sin with impunity,
never repent,
never accept Jesus as their Savior and Lord,
then they will no go to the Heaven, they scorned.
When a disaster happens,
and then they blame God,
for not being loving...
What are they talking about?
When He has been holding out His hand in love, to them
all the time before the tragedy....
They had consistently refused God,
and now they blame Him, for not being loving?
They find it repugnant that God should be angry?
( although they allow it for themselves daily).
However, God IS angry at sin,
and hates sin.
For you are not a God who delights in wickedness;
evil may not dwell with you.
Psalms 5:4
But this is just a 'little' of what sinners are like:
28 And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God,
God gave them up to a debased mind
to do what ought not to be done.
29 They were filled with all manner of
unrighteousness,
evil,
covetousness,
malice.
They are full of
envy,
murder,
strife,
deceit,
maliciousness.
They are gossips,
30 slanderers,
haters of God,
insolent,
haughty,
boastful,
inventors of evil,
disobedient to parents,
31 foolish,
faithless,
heartless,
ruthless.
32 Though they know God's righteous decree
that those who practice such things deserve to die,
they not only do them
but give approval to those who practice them.
Romans 1:28-32
So now they continue to be insolent
and accuse God of not being loving?
Was God to have just winked at all their depraved sins?
When all they have done is mock Him
and spit on Him
and only use His name to swear with?
etc etc etc.
I guess, I am at a bit of a loss
at what to say...today
I may need an attitude adjustment
and perhaps this is where
you need to post for me
the correct way to answer
I feel like, I am partial right
and yet.....
that may not be correct way
to be loving an unbeliever,
and helping them draw near to Christ.
I think it might depend on,
if they are truly asking due to sincere confusion,
or
just more mocking, anger and hatred of God?
I also think, they might instead have asked:
Why has God been so loving and good to us
up until now?
Why didn't He just destroy us all a LONG time ago?
Done for Today.
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
|
Post by fearnot on Jan 20, 2021 12:43:56 GMT -5
Once again, I am not sure what you think, but I will move to the Isaiah 3:4-14 topic
and start a new thread
But I can come back, to this one, if tomorrow you feel, its not quite done.
That was a bummer it did not show up yesterday when I posted it.
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Post by Cindy on Jan 21, 2021 12:30:13 GMT -5
How strange....I did finish it and posted it
AND
I went to my history and found the whole post
why did it not show up tho
Yes, I corrected that yesterday
I had not finished what you saw
but about an hour or two later I had
But it never showed up
So I will re-post it now
and since you didn't get to comment
I did not know if you thought this was done
arrrggghhhh
Back to when, atrocities and other bad things happen,
and what Jesus answered concerning
two such incidents, that he was questioned about.
I will look at the 2nd incident today and also try to get to the first part,
you suggested, which was this:
See Nahum 2:13. It is a strange thing that many people do not have a thought for God
until a disaster occurs. Then, it is not uncommon to hear someone say,
‘If God is a God of love, why did he permit that to happen?’
What should the Christian’s response be to a statement like that?
Also how does this have meaning for Christians today.
Here are the Luke verses again:
1 There were some present at that very time
who told him about the Galileans
whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices.
2 And he answered them,
“Do you think that these Galileans were worse sinners
than all the other Galileans,
because they suffered in this way?
3 No, I tell you; but unless you repent,
you will all likewise perish.
4 Or those eighteen on whom the tower in Siloam fell and killed them:
do you think that they were worse offenders
than all the others who lived in Jerusalem?
5 No, I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.”
Luke 13:1–5
In the first event, it was humans,
Pilate and his soldiers,
who did the murdering/killing/massacre.
There is a difference, in the 2nd situation,
where death occurs, because, there was no human
that caused the deaths.
The tower in Siloam ( for whatever reason),
fell, and 18 people died.
That would normally be considered:
a 'natural' act of nature
etc.
In any case, the tower fell,
and killed the 18 people, that were near it,
when it fell.
However,....
from the Jews perspective,
The people who died,
were,
after all,
'inferior' Galileans......
and thus God judged them...
right?
Jesus makes it clear,
that just because you are alive,
and they have died,
does NOT mean:
You are 'good'
and they are 'evil'.
Nor does that mean,
that just being alive, now....
that guarantees you will be free
of judgment,
when you do die.
27 And just as it is appointed for man to die once,
and after that comes judgment,
Hebrews 9:27
Instead, Jesus says:
5 No, I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.”
Luke 13:5
And this applies also
30 “Therefore I will judge you,
O house of Israel,
every one according to his ways,
declares the Lord God.
Repent and turn from all your transgressions,
lest iniquity be your ruin.
Ezekiel 18:30
The real tragedy, is NOT that you will die,
( in one way, or another)
that is a given, a certainty.
Rather,
the real calamity is:
the judgment
you WILL face,
IF you have not repented
BEFORE you die.
We need to be secure and safe in Jesus,
before, death.
27 My sheep ( believers) hear my voice,
and I know them,
and they follow me.
28 I give them eternal life,
and they will never perish,
and no one will snatch them out of my hand.
John 10:27,28
As an added note,
because Jesus said,
that those Galileans that died ......'perished'
3 No, I tell you; but unless you repent,
you will all likewise perish.
Luke 13:3
The ( Galileans, that died in the 2 events),
were most likely NOT believers in Jesus,
and thus, did not go to Heaven,
because,
they died in their sins....
Not necessarily,
because their sins
were so much worse than the
unbelieving Jews tho.
4 Or those eighteen on whom the tower in Siloam fell and killed them:
do you think that they were worse offenders
than all the others who lived in Jerusalem?
Luke 13:4
Jesus is saying,
it is not a given
that they were WORST offenders.
Offenders?
Yes, most likely,
but not necessarily the WORST!
Now for the Nahum example:
See Nahum 2:13.
13 Behold, I am against you,
declares the Lord of hosts,
and I will burn your chariots in smoke,
and the sword shall devour your young lions.
I will cut off your prey from the earth,
and the voice of your messengers shall no longer be heard.
Nahum 2:13
You wrote:
It is a strange thing that many people do not have a thought for God
until a disaster occurs.
Then, it is not uncommon to hear someone say,
‘If God is a God of love, why did he permit that to happen?’
What should the Christian’s response be to a statement like that?
In this Nahum passage of scripture,
we see that God is against sinful man.
. Sin alienates man from God.
It does not matter what color you are, where you live,
how rich or poor, how smart you are etc.
If people refuse to acknowledge God,
continue to mock Him,
sin with impunity,
never repent,
never accept Jesus as their Savior and Lord,
then they will no go to the Heaven, they scorned.
When a disaster happens,
and then they blame God,
for not being loving...
What are they talking about?
When He has been holding out His hand in love, to them
all the time before the tragedy....
They had consistently refused God,
and now they blame Him, for not being loving?
They find it repugnant that God should be angry?
( although they allow it for themselves daily).
However, God IS angry at sin,
and hates sin.
For you are not a God who delights in wickedness;
evil may not dwell with you.
Psalms 5:4
But this is just a 'little' of what sinners are like:
28 And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God,
God gave them up to a debased mind
to do what ought not to be done.
29 They were filled with all manner of
unrighteousness,
evil,
covetousness,
malice.
They are full of
envy,
murder,
strife,
deceit,
maliciousness.
They are gossips,
30 slanderers,
haters of God,
insolent,
haughty,
boastful,
inventors of evil,
disobedient to parents,
31 foolish,
faithless,
heartless,
ruthless.
32 Though they know God's righteous decree
that those who practice such things deserve to die,
they not only do them
but give approval to those who practice them.
Romans 1:28-32
So now they continue to be insolent
and accuse God of not being loving?
Was God to have just winked at all their depraved sins?
When all they have done is mock Him
and spit on Him
and only use His name to swear with?
etc etc etc.
I guess, I am at a bit of a loss
at what to say...today
I may need an attitude adjustment
and perhaps this is where
you need to post for me
the correct way to answer
I feel like, I am partial right
and yet.....
that may not be correct way
to be loving an unbeliever,
and helping them draw near to Christ.
I think it might depend on,
if they are truly asking due to sincere confusion,
or
just more mocking, anger and hatred of God?
I also think, they might instead have asked:
Why has God been so loving and good to us
up until now?
Why didn't He just destroy us all a LONG time ago?
Done for Today.
You did fine hon. And what you said was true, and is most likely a good way to deal with some of the people who ask that question. Sadly, even people who are supposed to be saved at times will ask that question though; so it's not always asked by an unsaved person. Let me try and address a couple of things ok?
In the Luke 4 example you wrote: "Offenders?
Yes, most likely,
but not necessarily the WORST!" I just want to clarify something. If by "offenders" you mean sinners, then yes, they were sinners because we all are. But Jesus is saying that they are no worse then anyone else. He was clearing their names and letting us know that God doesn't punish people that way, but that things like that are a warning to everyone to shape up and repent of their sins. I think that's what you meant too, but the way you wrote it, it could be taken differently.  I just realized that you're probably following a different version. (that's why I wanted you to post NIV) Look at what the NIV says, as it's much clearer here: “Jesus answered, “Do you think that these Galileans were worse sinners than all the other Galileans because they suffered this way? I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish. Or those eighteen who died when the tower in Siloam fell on them—do you think they were more guilty than all the others living in Jerusalem? I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish.”” (Luke 13:2–5)
The way it's worded here, there's no mistaking that Jesus is speaking about sin and sinners and replying to the Pharisees belief that when something bad happened, it was because the person was a sinner, and when something good happened, it was because they were righteous.
The Nahum passage simply shows God judging a nation for their sin which they refused to repent of. What bothers most folks is that they always think that there are "innocent" people who get hurt when a nation is judged, like Nahum is saying Nineveh will be. However, as you've explained already, there are no innocents. Even small children are sinners. God is love and because of that, He doesn't strike us down individually the moment we sin. Nor does He strike down a nation immediately when it turns it's back on Him, the way the US has now. For example, God gave the nations Israel was told to destroy and take their land, 400 years to repent before He made Israel His Hand in judgement. And most of those years were good years to all the people.
In fact, God's love is the most amazing thing about Him to me. God loves us all so much, that He even allows evil people to have good things during their lifetime here because He knows that they are bound for Hell, and therefore this life is the only good thing they will ever have. But for us, this life is the only "hell" that will ever happen to us. After this, comes an eternity of pure joy for us! To me that proves even more that the last thing God wants to have happen is to have to put someone in hell; but He will do so because He honors our free will. So where was God when the tower of Siloam fell on those 18 men? He was right there with them, taking away their pain, and either welcoming them to Heaven or sadly sending them to Hell. He was with their family members, comforting them, and weeping with them. He was arranging things so various family members would meet Jesus and learn about His love for them. He was also aware that His son would soon be conquering death for us, so we would no longer need to fear it. Most of all though, God was with everyone involved in that disaster in any way, loving them, and inviting them to know Him and to know His Son.
He was also asking them to know the truth about themselves - that they are sinners and that they need to repent of their sins just as much as anyone else they can point to. (which you did a good job of explaining already as well!) I think this is one of the hardest things for people to understand. It's hard to explain to children too because they often haven't lived long enough to really know how evil they can be.
Once again, I am not sure what you think, but I will move to the Isaiah 3:4-14 topic
and start a new thread
But I can come back, to this one, if tomorrow you feel, its not quite done.
That was a bummer it did not show up yesterday when I posted it. |
|
I see now, thanks for explaining it to me. Well, how about including Nahum and it's question at the end of this? Would that work for you?
I just realized that you're probably following a different version. (that's why I wanted you to post NIV) Look at what the NIV says, as it's much clearer here: “Jesus answered, “Do you think that these Galileans were worse sinners than all the other Galileans because they suffered this way? I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish. Or those eighteen who died when the tower in Siloam fell on them—do you think they were more guilty than all the others living in Jerusalem? I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish.”” (Luke 13:2–5) 
!!
