fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383 
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Post by fearnot on Dec 31, 2020 12:52:27 GMT -5
Since it seems like all manner of things have ramped up in the world today
more people are looking to the Bible for answers
about questions they may have put on the back burner.... until 2021
So here are some questions we could look at,
that people may wonder what does
the Bible, God's word say?
we could study :
Death,
what happens after it,
and what Jesus means in John 11:25. etc,
Heaven:
immediately after death,
and after eternity starts,
and the difference between the two
the Millennial kingdom,
(which could also include heaven after death and after eternity starts and the difference, etc.)
Hell,
and the Lake of fire,
and the difference
and what is waiting for those who will go there.
Love (which includes forgiveness)
which is how Jesus says others will know we belong to Him;
what does it look like, etc.
We can also add to this list
if it seems right to do so.
So today, I will just give a short start looking at the first one:
Death,
what happens after it,
and what Jesus means in John 11:25.
I am thinking the first thing to mention
is some people want to believe that when you die
that is the end
you......
no longer exist.
But that is NOT what the Bible says
we are all of us
going to live forever, eternally.
The real question is where will we live
and how will we live
( just as spirits or even 'ghosts'
floating about
or something very different?
And so now might be a good place to say
that it all depends on if you are a saved believer
when you die,
or not...if you did not accept Jesus's sacrifice
and payment in full for your sins.
I think for a Christian believer
this is a good beginning:
6 So we are always of good courage.
We know that while we are at home in the body
we are away from the Lord,
7 for we walk by faith, not by sight.
8 Yes, we are of good courage,
and we would rather be away from the body
and at home with the Lord.
9 So whether we are at home
or away,
we make it our aim to please him.
10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ,
so that each one may receive
what is due for what he has done in the body,
whether good or evil.
2 Corinthians 5:6-10
And of course this verse
which could be one of the most memorized verses
by Christians:
16 “For God so loved the world,
that he gave his only Son,
that whoever believes in him
should not perish
but have eternal life.
John 3:16
Will start tomorrow in depth
Done for today
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
|
Post by fearnot on Jan 1, 2021 13:35:10 GMT -5
Looking at what happens when we die
what happens to unbelievers
and
to those who believe in Jesus death on the cross
to pay for all their sins.
Two key verses, that Jesus said is:
25 Jesus said to her,
“I am the resurrection
and the life.
Whoever believes in me,
though he die,
yet shall he live,
26 and everyone who lives
and believes in me shall never die.
Do you believe this?”
John 11:25
Jesus asks:
Do you believe this?
This is a question, we must all ask ourselves,
however, it is the whole point of the book of John,
as John says:
31 but these are written
so that you may believe
that Jesus is the Christ,
the Son of God,
and that by believing
you may have
life
in his name.
John 20:31
We do not have the power over death
nor are we privy to the knowledge of
the day, hour, or minute
when we are going to die
8 No man has power to retain the spirit,
or power over the day of death....
Ecclesiastes 8:8
But die we all shall....
unless---
we are raptured.
Otherwise, this verse is true
for all of us:
“Man who is born of a woman
is few of days and full of trouble.
2 He comes out like a flower and withers;
he flees like a shadow
and continues not.
Job 14:1,2
Some can scoff the idea of a hereafter,
at a continuation of life,
after 'physical death'
But that belittling,
and contempt,
will not change....
The fact
that there IS life after physical death!!
This is a verse that is quite clear:
18 Whoever believes in him (Jesus)
s not condemned,
but whoever does not believe
is condemned already,
because he has not believed
in the name of the only Son of God.
John 3:18
The eternal destination
of people
is
based on...
Whether or not,
they had trusted Jesus
alone
for their salvation.
Believers will go to Heaven
and unbelievers to Hell.
As Jesus said:
28 Do not marvel at this,
for an hour is coming
when all who are in the tombs
will hear his voice
29 and come out,
those who have done good
to the resurrection of life,
and those who have done evil
to the resurrection of judgment.
John 5:28,29
I know, some people are apt to think
how could God be so cruel as to send some to Hell?
Actually, tho, in a big way, He is giving them
what they wanted.
While on earth, they wanted nothing
to do with God...
and so for eternity
they can be without Him.
To me, that alone would
be the most terrifying thing....
to never have God for all eternity.
Jesus had and has,
the power to create
everything,
from nothing...
Therefore He is the life
and resurrection
Death is a change of address.
we move from one realm
to another.
As Job said:
For I know that my Redeemer lives,
and at the last he will stand upon the earth.
26 And after my skin has been thus destroyed,
yet in my flesh I shall see God,
27 whom I shall see for myself,
and my eyes shall behold, and not another.
Job 19:25-27
Done for Today
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
|
Post by fearnot on Jan 2, 2021 13:06:52 GMT -5
I am not sure if I covered questions concerning death,
from a Biblical perspective,
thoroughly enough, or not?
( I could always backtrack, if you thought we ought
to include a bit more more on the subject of death)
But for today,
I will move on to heaven
The whole topic is:
Heaven:
immediately after death,
and after eternity starts,
and the difference between the two
Today, I will just start looking at Heaven first.
However, I don't think, many people
are spending a lot of time
thinking about Heaven
because,
it is a delayed blessing....
And people today,
are not good at things like:
patience,
and waiting
or delaying being gratified.
They do not follow this:
19 “Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth,
where moth and rust destroy
and where thieves break in and steal,
20 but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven,
where neither moth nor rust destroys
and where thieves do not break in and steal.
21 For where your treasure is,
there your heart will be also
Matthew 6:19-21
Then too, a lot of people
think Heaven will be
frankly....
kind of.............. 'boring'
Something like the old idea
of sitting on a cloud,
for eternity....
playing on a harp.
But is that a true image of Heaven?
First of all:
God the Father,
Jesus,
and the Holy Spirit
will be there.
Also all of God's angels
And all of the family of God.
Also we have treasure and an inheritance there:
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ!
According to his great mercy,
he has caused us to be born again
to a living hope
through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
4 to an inheritance
that is imperishable,
undefiled,
and unfading,
kept in heaven
for you,
1 Peter 1:3,4
We are apt to think we are citizens
of a particular earthy country
and so we are.
But, if we are born again
Christians,
Our 'real' citizenship,
is actually in Heaven:
20 But our citizenship is in heaven,
and from it we await a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ,
Philippians 3:20
It is odd really, that so many people
are very fond of Earth
and want to stay and live here as long as possible.
Earth is the home of:
grave sin
and evil
sickness,
pain,
tears,
hate
scorn
trouble
etc. etc. etc.
In fact, this verse is true
for all the nations
of the world,
past and present:
Behold, the nations are like a drop from a bucket,
and are accounted as the dust on the scales;
Isaiah 40:15
This is NOT true concerning Heaven!
Therefore, those of us who will be
sooner
or later,
relocating to Heaven....
it makes sense we want to learn about it!
It is clear, we do not want to linger
forever,
in a fallen world,
and we want to go,
to our 'real' home.
We are aliens here on planet Earth,
we are strangers in a strange land:
11 Beloved, I urge you as
sojourners and exiles
to abstain from the passions of the flesh,
which wage war against your soul.
1 Peter 2:11
We know this is where we will go
in the future
if we are born again Christians:
1 “Let not your hearts be troubled.
Believe in God;
believe also in me ( Jesus).
2 In my Father's house are many rooms.
If it were not so,
would I have told you
that I go to prepare a place for you?
3 And if I go and prepare a place for you,
I will come again
and will take you to myself,
that where I am you may be also.
John 14:1-3
We know that in heaven
Jesus is building special places for us.
Therefore we should be doing this:
2 Set your minds on things that are above,
not on things that are on earth.
Colossians 3:2
Arrrgghhh I must have been super tired when writing this yesterday!
I forgot to end it with:
Done for today LOL
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
|
Post by fearnot on Jan 3, 2021 10:09:17 GMT -5
So here is a verse to ponder:
A good name is better than precious ointment,
and the day of death than the day of birth.
Ecclesiastes 7
The day of death,
for the born again believer,
will be better,
than the day of their birth!
( but sadly, it will not be for the unbeliever)
But going to Heaven to be with Jesus
makes this verse a blessed hope and joy!
21 For to me to live is Christ,
and to die is gain.
Philippians 1:21
Christians long to go there....
to Heaven....
that is where God the Father
Jesus the Son
and the Holy Spirit lives.
Who would wish to stay here forever
in the sad, dark, cold, place
of sin and sorrows?
When we can be in the place of
eternal love, peace, joy,
delights we cannot even imagine etc.
We are living in a 'down' place
and Heaven is 'up'.
So people are not confused
the Bible speaks of
3 Heaven types:
The first heaven is:
the firmament or sky that covers the earth
it is sometimes called heaven,
but that is NOT
THE
Heaven
But, not ONLY that is called Heaven
also there is a 2nd Heaven:
the stars,
the sun,
and the moon
space that is the entire universe.
But the actual Heaven,
the 3rd Heaven,
where God is:
is not found by any map
or telescope.
It is the 3rd Heaven
and it is beyond the universe
and outside of time as we know it!
And yet......
it is at the same time
very near!!!
Jesus said so:
17 From that time Jesus began to preach, saying,
“Repent,
for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
Matthew 4:17
We hear a lot of people
'claiming' to have died
and gone to heaven...
only to come back
and write a best selling book about
their experiences there.
Well, that is totally different than
the 4 biblical authors
who had 'visions' of heaven...
not near-death experiences.
One glaring difference
is those who write the
best sellers
are from the view point
of them
as the main character....
as opposed to
the Biblical accounts,
with God and God's glory
as the focus!
Then there is the real
occult danger of people trying to
communicate with the dead
like King Saul even.
God was and is so against this!
27 “A man or a woman
who is a medium
or a necromancer
shall surely be put to death....
Leviticus 20:27
The most I can say about Ezekiel's vision
is it gives us the truth,
about how beyond our ability
it is to
really imagine heaven!!!
For example:
5 And from the midst of it came the likeness of four living creatures.
And this was their appearance:
they had a human likeness,
6 but each had four faces,
and each of them had four wings.
7 Their legs were straight,
and the soles of their feet
were like the sole of a calf's foot.
And they sparkled like burnished bronze.
8 Under their wings
on their four sides t
hey had human hands.
And the four had their faces and ....
Ezekiel 1:5-8
I would have to say
there will be many things
we cannot even imagine
or describe about the real Heaven
It will be one of those things
where you have to be there!!!
9 But, as it is written,
“What no eye has seen, nor ear heard,
nor the heart of man imagined,
what God has prepared for those who love him”
1 Corinthians 2:9
Still......
God has given us a little
preview,
which we could look at tomorrow?
Done for Today
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
|
Post by fearnot on Jan 4, 2021 12:02:00 GMT -5
So I never really got around to this:
Heaven:
immediately after death,
and
after eternity starts,
and the difference between the two
I think that,
knowing where we are going
can help us,
while we are here...
But at death
we born again saved Christians
will arrive in the 3rd Heaven where God is.
But we won't have our new bodies yet...
However we will get them
at the 2nd coming of Christ.
20 But our citizenship is in heaven,
and from it we await a Savior,
the Lord Jesus Christ,
21 who will transform our lowly body
to be like his glorious body,
by the power that enables him
even to subject all things to himself.
Philippians 3:20,21
and
6 So we are always of good courage.
We know that while we are at home in the body
we are away from the Lord,
7 for we walk by faith, not by sight.
8 Yes, we are of good courage,
and we would rather be
away from the body
and
at home with the Lord.
2 Corinthians 5:6-8
and also this:
42 So is it with the resurrection of the dead.
What is sown is perishable;
what is raised is imperishable.
43 It is sown in dishonor;
it is raised in glory.
It is sown in weakness;
it is raised in power.
44 It is sown a natural body;
it is raised a spiritual body.
If there is a natural body,
there is also a spiritual body.
1 Corinthians 15:42-44
So we will be transformed into a glorified body.
When a person puts a seed into the ground
The seed 'dies',
however....
from it
comes 'life.
What will grow is not going to look
like the small seed,
it will be bigger, more complex, more beautiful, more glorious etc.
but it will have the same life principal.
Life on earth is a continuing process
of decay, and destruction,
not unlike what happens to a seed
when planted in the ground
But we will be changed....
52 in a moment,
in the twinkling of an eye,
at the last trumpet.
For the trumpet will sound,
and the dead will be raised imperishable,
and we shall be changed.
1 Corinthians 15:52
But, that being said,
God will one day destroy this universe
and create a New Heaven and a New Earth.
No matter,
one thing the believer can count on is:
they will be with the Lord forever!
"......for he has said, “I will never leave you nor forsake you.”
Hebrews 13:5
so we will be with Jesus in this present Heaven when we die
and we can also look forward to the New Heaven and New Earth
13 But according to his promise
we are waiting for
new heavens and a new earth
in which righteousness dwells.
2 Peter 3:13
Done for Today
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Post by Cindy on Jan 4, 2021 12:33:49 GMT -5
Just so you know, I added more things to the list of what we could study next and posted it in this forum here:
Other Studies we could do
Since it seems like all manner of things have ramped up in the world today
more people are looking to the Bible for answers
about questions they may have put on the back burner.... until 2021
So here are some questions we could look at,
that people may wonder what does
the Bible, God's word say?
we could study :
Death,
what happens after it,
and what Jesus means in John 11:25. etc,
Heaven:
immediately after death,
and after eternity starts,
and the difference between the two
the Millennial kingdom,
(which could also include heaven after death and after eternity starts and the difference, etc.)
Hell,
and the Lake of fire,
and the difference
and what is waiting for those who will go there.
Love (which includes forgiveness)
which is how Jesus says others will know we belong to Him;
what does it look like, etc.
We can also add to this list
if it seems right to do so.
So today, I will just give a short start looking at the first one:
Death,
what happens after it,
and what Jesus means in John 11:25.
I am thinking the first thing to mention
is some people want to believe that when you die
that is the end
you......
no longer exist.
But that is NOT what the Bible says
we are all of us
going to live forever, eternally.
The real question is where will we live
and how will we live
( just as spirits or even 'ghosts'
floating about
or something very different?
And so now might be a good place to say
that it all depends on if you are a saved believer
when you die,
or not...if you did not accept Jesus's sacrifice
and payment in full for your sins.
I think for a Christian believer
this is a good beginning:
6 So we are always of good courage.
We know that while we are at home in the body
we are away from the Lord,
7 for we walk by faith, not by sight.
8 Yes, we are of good courage,
and we would rather be away from the body
and at home with the Lord.
9 So whether we are at home
or away,
we make it our aim to please him.
10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ,
so that each one may receive
what is due for what he has done in the body,
whether good or evil.
2 Corinthians 5:6-10
And of course this verse
which could be one of the most memorized verses
by Christians:
16 “For God so loved the world,
that he gave his only Son,
that whoever believes in him
should not perish
but have eternal life.
John 3:16
Will start tomorrow in depth
Done for today
 Reading this made me think of something that I found interesting and thought you might like to, so let me share it with you:
Are you aware that the terms eternal life and everlasting life are not synonyms? Whereas everlasting describes something which has a beginning but no end, eternal describes something which has neither beginning nor end. The natural man has everlasting life. His life began at birth and extends forever into infinity—dwelling in hell by his own choice. Although a translation of the Bible may mistakenly say that Christians have everlasting life, this is not supported by the Greek or Hebrew. We Christians have eternal life. Eternal life is not a phenomenon, nor an it, but a Person, Jesus Christ. Eternal Life should best be capitalized because this is another name for Jesus Christ. The Bible documents this: 1 John 1:1-2 reveals that Christ and Eternal Life are one and the same. Jesus said, "I am...the life" (John 14:6). "In Him was life" (John 1:4). "When Christ, who is our life, is revealed ..." (Colossians 3:4). Eternal Life is a Person, Jesus Christ. When you came to Jesus, He did not "come into your life"; He exchanged His powerful, obedient life, for your old rebellious, independent, self-serving life. Jesus Christ is our life, folks, and we have the glorious privilege of cooperating with Him by trusting Him to express His life through us on earth. What a magnificent difference that makes! John Ankerberg
Looking at what happens when we die
what happens to unbelievers
and
to those who believe in Jesus death on the cross
to pay for all their sins.
Two key verses, that Jesus said is:
25 Jesus said to her,
“I am the resurrection
and the life.
Whoever believes in me,
though he die,
yet shall he live,
26 and everyone who lives
and believes in me shall never die.
Do you believe this?”
John 11:25
Jesus asks:
Do you believe this?
This is a question, we must all ask ourselves,
however, it is the whole point of the book of John,
as John says:
31 but these are written
so that you may believe
that Jesus is the Christ,
the Son of God,
and that by believing
you may have
life
in his name.
John 20:31
We do not have the power over death
nor are we privy to the knowledge of
the day, hour, or minute
when we are going to die
8 No man has power to retain the spirit,
or power over the day of death....
Ecclesiastes 8:8
But die we all shall....
unless---
we are raptured.
Otherwise, this verse is true
for all of us:
“Man who is born of a woman
is few of days and full of trouble.
2 He comes out like a flower and withers;
he flees like a shadow
and continues not.
Job 14:1,2
Some can scoff the idea of a hereafter,
at a continuation of life,
after 'physical death'
But that belittling,
and contempt,
will not change....
The fact
that there IS life after physical death!!
This is a verse that is quite clear:
18 Whoever believes in him (Jesus)
s not condemned,
but whoever does not believe
is condemned already,
because he has not believed
in the name of the only Son of God.
John 3:18
The eternal destination
of people
is
based on...
Whether or not,
they had trusted Jesus
alone
for their salvation.
Believers will go to Heaven
and unbelievers to Hell.
As Jesus said:
28 Do not marvel at this,
for an hour is coming
when all who are in the tombs
will hear his voice
29 and come out,
those who have done good
to the resurrection of life,
and those who have done evil
to the resurrection of judgment.
John 5:28,29
I know, some people are apt to think
how could God be so cruel as to send some to Hell?
Actually, tho, in a big way, He is giving them
what they wanted.
While on earth, they wanted nothing
to do with God...
and so for eternity
they can be without Him.
To me, that alone would
be the most terrifying thing....
to never have God for all eternity.
Jesus had and has,
the power to create
everything,
from nothing...
Therefore He is the life
and resurrection
Death is a change of address.
we move from one realm
to another.
As Job said:
For I know that my Redeemer lives,
and at the last he will stand upon the earth.
26 And after my skin has been thus destroyed,
yet in my flesh I shall see God,
27 whom I shall see for myself,
and my eyes shall behold, and not another.
Job 19:25-27
Done for Today
“Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in me will live, even though he dies; and whoever lives and believes in me will never die. Do you believe this?”” (John 11:25–26)
What you said, that we all need to answer this question, is true; but we can't really answer it if we don't understand what Jesus is saying. Most folks get all tied up at the part where He says that someone will live even if he dies...it doesn't make sense to most people. Especially considering the context it's spoken in! So if you could go over that, I'd love to hear what you have to say concerning it. 
I am not sure if I covered questions concerning death,
from a Biblical perspective,
thoroughly enough, or not?
( I could always backtrack, if you thought we ought
to include a bit more more on the subject of death)
But for today,
I will move on to heaven
The whole topic is:
Heaven:
immediately after death,
and after eternity starts,
and the difference between the two
Today, I will just start looking at Heaven first.
However, I don't think, many people
are spending a lot of time
thinking about Heaven
because,
it is a delayed blessing....
And people today,
are not good at things like:
patience,
and waiting
or delaying being gratified.
They do not follow this:
19 “Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth,
where moth and rust destroy
and where thieves break in and steal,
20 but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven,
where neither moth nor rust destroys
and where thieves do not break in and steal.
21 For where your treasure is,
there your heart will be also
Matthew 6:19-21
Then too, a lot of people
think Heaven will be
frankly....
kind of.............. 'boring'
Something like the old idea
of sitting on a cloud,
for eternity....
playing on a harp.
But is that a true image of Heaven?
First of all:
God the Father,
Jesus,
and the Holy Spirit
will be there.
Also all of God's angels
And all of the family of God.
Also we have treasure and an inheritance there:
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ!
According to his great mercy,
he has caused us to be born again
to a living hope
through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
4 to an inheritance
that is imperishable,
undefiled,
and unfading,
kept in heaven
for you,
1 Peter 1:3,4
We are apt to think we are citizens
of a particular earthy country
and so we are.
But, if we are born again
Christians,
Our 'real' citizenship,
is actually in Heaven:
20 But our citizenship is in heaven,
and from it we await a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ,
Philippians 3:20
It is odd really, that so many people
are very fond of Earth
and want to stay and live here as long as possible.
Earth is the home of:
grave sin
and evil
sickness,
pain,
tears,
hate
scorn
trouble
etc. etc. etc.
In fact, this verse is true
for all the nations
of the world,
past and present:
Behold, the nations are like a drop from a bucket,
and are accounted as the dust on the scales;
Isaiah 40:15
This is NOT true concerning Heaven!
Therefore, those of us who will be
sooner
or later,
relocating to Heaven....
it makes sense we want to learn about it!
It is clear, we do not want to linger
forever,
in a fallen world,
and we want to go,
to our 'real' home.
We are aliens here on planet Earth,
we are strangers in a strange land:
11 Beloved, I urge you as
sojourners and exiles
to abstain from the passions of the flesh,
which wage war against your soul.
1 Peter 2:11
We know this is where we will go
in the future
if we are born again Christians:
1 “Let not your hearts be troubled.
Believe in God;
believe also in me ( Jesus).
2 In my Father's house are many rooms.
If it were not so,
would I have told you
that I go to prepare a place for you?
3 And if I go and prepare a place for you,
I will come again
and will take you to myself,
that where I am you may be also.
John 14:1-3
We know that in heaven
Jesus is building special places for us.
Therefore we should be doing this:
2 Set your minds on things that are above,
not on things that are on earth.
Colossians 3:2
Arrrgghhh I must have been super tired when writing this yesterday!
I forgot to end it with:
Done for today LOL
I'd also like to suggest that we spend at least one week on each study, ok? Longer is fine, but no shorter ok?
Concerning Heaven....the reason I added after we die and after eternity starts is because Heaven is going to change. In fact, let's say for all those who died from the time of Jesus up to the rapture, heaven will be a bit different then it will be for those who die during the tribulation as believers; and for all who live through the tribulation and are able to enter the Millennial Kingdom, but die before it's over, heaven will be different for them as well, and for all of us, once the Great white throne judgment is over, and God creates new heavens and new earth, then Heaven will be quite different for us all, and will stay like that for the rest of eternity! Sorry I've been so out of it lately and unable to do much. I meant to explain all this before we ever got to doing it. If you're unaware of the changes, just let me know and I'll explain, ok?
So here is a verse to ponder:
A good name is better than precious ointment,
and the day of death than the day of birth.
Ecclesiastes 7
The day of death,
for the born again believer,
will be better,
than the day of their birth!
( but sadly, it will not be for the unbeliever)
But going to Heaven to be with Jesus
makes this verse a blessed hope and joy!
21 For to me to live is Christ,
and to die is gain.
Philippians 1:21
Christians long to go there....
to Heaven....
that is where God the Father
Jesus the Son
and the Holy Spirit lives.
Who would wish to stay here forever
in the sad, dark, cold, place
of sin and sorrows?
When we can be in the place of
eternal love, peace, joy,
delights we cannot even imagine etc.
We are living in a 'down' place
and Heaven is 'up'.
So people are not confused
the Bible speaks of
3 Heaven types:
The first heaven is:
the firmament or sky that covers the earth
it is sometimes called heaven,
but that is NOT
THE
Heaven
But, not ONLY that is called Heaven
also there is a 2nd Heaven:
the stars,
the sun,
and the moon
space that is the entire universe.
But the actual Heaven,
the 3rd Heaven,
where God is:
is not found by any map
or telescope.
It is the 3rd Heaven
and it is beyond the universe
and outside of time as we know it!
And yet......
it is at the same time
very near!!!
Jesus said so:
17 From that time Jesus began to preach, saying,
“Repent,
for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
Matthew 4:17
We hear a lot of people
'claiming' to have died
and gone to heaven...
only to come back
and write a best selling book about
their experiences there.
Well, that is totally different than
the 4 biblical authors
who had 'visions' of heaven...
not near-death experiences.
One glaring difference
is those who write the
best sellers
are from the view point
of them
as the main character....
as opposed to
the Biblical accounts,
with God and God's glory
as the focus!
Then there is the real
occult danger of people trying to
communicate with the dead
like King Saul even.
God was and is so against this!
27 “A man or a woman
who is a medium
or a necromancer
shall surely be put to death....
Leviticus 20:27
The most I can say about Ezekiel's vision
is it gives us the truth,
about how beyond our ability
it is to
really imagine heaven!!!
For example:
5 And from the midst of it came the likeness of four living creatures.
And this was their appearance:
they had a human likeness,
6 but each had four faces,
and each of them had four wings.
7 Their legs were straight,
and the soles of their feet
were like the sole of a calf's foot.
And they sparkled like burnished bronze.
8 Under their wings
on their four sides t
hey had human hands.
And the four had their faces and ....
Ezekiel 1:5-8
I would have to say
there will be many things
we cannot even imagine
or describe about the real Heaven
It will be one of those things
where you have to be there!!!
9 But, as it is written,
“What no eye has seen, nor ear heard,
nor the heart of man imagined,
what God has prepared for those who love him”
1 Corinthians 2:9
Still......
God has given us a little
preview,
which we could look at tomorrow?
Done for Today
It's funny, but a lot of pastors will say that God doesn't tell us much about heaven, and yet I can fill page after page with information straight from the Bible about heaven. I realize though that they mean that we don't know much in comparison with what we know about life here on this earth now. I had to laugh when I checked out an article I wrote about heaven in the Salvation, Sin, Heaven, Hell, and Death forum. I clicked on one of my articles and was shocked at how long it was. I can just imagine someone opening that up and being overwhelmed by it's length! lol. But then, if someone really wanted to know about it, they'd probably be eating it up just like I did! lol
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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Post by fearnot on Jan 4, 2021 13:11:47 GMT -5
So I never really got around to this:
Heaven:
immediately after death,
and
after eternity starts,
and the difference between the two
I think that,
knowing where we are going
can help us,
while we are here...
But at death
we born again saved Christians
will arrive in the 3rd Heaven where God is.
But we won't have our new bodies yet...
However we will get them
at the 2nd coming of Christ.
20 But our citizenship is in heaven,
and from it we await a Savior,
the Lord Jesus Christ,
21 who will transform our lowly body
to be like his glorious body,
by the power that enables him
even to subject all things to himself.
Philippians 3:20,21
and
6 So we are always of good courage.
We know that while we are at home in the body
we are away from the Lord,
7 for we walk by faith, not by sight.
8 Yes, we are of good courage,
and we would rather be
away from the body
and
at home with the Lord.
2 Corinthians 5:6-8
and also this:
42 So is it with the resurrection of the dead.
What is sown is perishable;
what is raised is imperishable.
43 It is sown in dishonor;
it is raised in glory.
It is sown in weakness;
it is raised in power.
44 It is sown a natural body;
it is raised a spiritual body.
If there is a natural body,
there is also a spiritual body.
1 Corinthians 15:42-44
So we will be transformed into a glorified body.
When a person puts a seed into the ground
The seed 'dies',
however....
from it
comes 'life.
What will grow is not going to look
like the small seed,
it will be bigger, more complex, more beautiful, more glorious etc.
but it will have the same life principal.
Life on earth is a continuing process
of decay, and destruction,
not unlike what happens to a seed
when planted in the ground
But we will be changed....
52 in a moment,
in the twinkling of an eye,
at the last trumpet.
For the trumpet will sound,
and the dead will be raised imperishable,
and we shall be changed.
1 Corinthians 15:52
But, that being said,
God will one day destroy this universe
and create a New Heaven and a New Earth.
No matter,
one thing the believer can count on is:
they will be with the Lord forever!
"......for he has said, “I will never leave you nor forsake you.”
Hebrews 13:5
so we will be with Jesus in this present Heaven when we die
and we can also look forward to the New Heaven and New Earth
13 But according to his promise
we are waiting for
new heavens and a new earth
in which righteousness dwells.
2 Peter 3:13
Done for Today
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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Post by fearnot on Jan 4, 2021 13:16:05 GMT -5
I will have to go tomorrow and see what you said....
I have not been sleeping well for about a week or so
concentrating is not at my best.
So if I do not quite get what you are asking
then inform me :)
But I will try
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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Post by fearnot on Jan 5, 2021 10:57:46 GMT -5
So I think this was the beginning of your suggestions:
“Jesus said to her,
“I am the resurrection and the life.
He who believes in me will live,
even though he dies;
and whoever lives and believes in me will never die.
Do you believe this?””
(John 11:25–26)
You wrote this:
"What you said, that we all need to answer this question, is true;
but we can't really answer it if we don't understand what Jesus is saying.
Most folks get all tied up at the part where He says that
someone will live even if he dies...
it doesn't make sense to most people"
So to start:
Jesus said those words when He resurrected Lazarus from death.
Lazarus's body was dead.
All the physical processes that we attribute to being alive,
had stopped
and decay had set in.
We can have basically only two options when thinking about death.
A secular one, which says when you die,
that is the absolute end for you.
But is that true:
32 ‘I am the God of Abraham,
and the God of Isaac,
and the God of Jacob’.
He is not God of the dead,
but of the living.”
Matthew 22:32
Or....
a Biblical ( Christian) option,
in which 'life' continues,
but you have moved to a different place
either: Heaven or Hell.
28 And do not fear those who kill the body
but cannot kill the soul.
Rather fear him
who can destroy both soul and body
in hell.
Matthew 10:28
Resurrection with Jesus
being in Heaven is great!
Otherwise being resurrected
to Hell will be terrifying.
Jesus is the Lord of 'death'
( in that,
Hell will be like eternal death,
punishment, pain, suffering, etc.)
But for those who are saved,
He is the King of
eternal life
Believers in Jesus already have eternal life.
Their bodies will eventually die,
but they already have eternal life
and their bodies will be resurrected.
Unless we are raptured,
all of us will die....
Often this is around the amount of time we have:
9 For all our days pass away under your wrath;
we bring our years to an end like a sigh.
10 The years of our life are seventy,
or even by reason of strength eighty;
Psalms 90
I also wrote this yesterday
which also explains this issue a little
This is what I wrote:
42 So is it with the resurrection of the dead.
What is sown is perishable;
what is raised is imperishable.
43 It is sown in dishonor;
it is raised in glory.
It is sown in weakness;
it is raised in power.
44 It is sown a natural body;
it is raised a spiritual body.
If there is a natural body,
there is also a spiritual body.
1 Corinthians 15:42-44
So we will be transformed into a glorified body.
When a person puts a seed into the ground
The seed 'dies',
however....
from it's 'death'
comes 'life.
What will grow, is not going to look
like the small seed,
it will be bigger,
more complex,
more beautiful,
more glorious etc.
but it will have the same life principal.
Life on earth is
a continuing process
of decay, and destruction,
not unlike what happens to a seed
when planted in the ground
But we will be changed....
52 in a moment,
in the twinkling of an eye,
at the last trumpet.
For the trumpet will sound,
and the dead will be raised imperishable,
and we shall be changed.
1 Corinthians 15:52
So dying is a process
and with the resurrection
of the Christian...
getting an improved,
superior,
exceptional,
surpassing body.
28 Do not marvel at this,
for an hour is coming
when all who are in the tombs
will hear his voice
29 and come out,
those who have done good to the resurrection of life,
and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment.
John 5:28,29
The Christian actually has
already died:
2 Set your minds on things that are above,
not on things that are on earth.
3 For you have died,
and your life is hidden with Christ in God.
Colossians 3:2,3
We can now look at death from this perspective:
“O death, where is your victory?
O death, where is your sting?”
1 Corinthians 15:55
And also this:
23 I am hard pressed between the two.
My desire is to depart and be with Christ,
for that is far better.
Philippians 1:23
so I will stop for today
and work on it tomorrow
Done for Today
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Post by Cindy on Jan 5, 2021 13:47:46 GMT -5
So I never really got around to this:
Heaven:
immediately after death,
and
after eternity starts,
and the difference between the two
I think that,
knowing where we are going
can help us,
while we are here...
But at death
we born again saved Christians
will arrive in the 3rd Heaven where God is.
But we won't have our new bodies yet...
However we will get them
at the 2nd coming of Christ.
20 But our citizenship is in heaven,
and from it we await a Savior,
the Lord Jesus Christ,
21 who will transform our lowly body
to be like his glorious body,
by the power that enables him
even to subject all things to himself.
Philippians 3:20,21
and
6 So we are always of good courage.
We know that while we are at home in the body
we are away from the Lord,
7 for we walk by faith, not by sight.
8 Yes, we are of good courage,
and we would rather be
away from the body
and
at home with the Lord.
2 Corinthians 5:6-8
and also this:
42 So is it with the resurrection of the dead.
What is sown is perishable;
what is raised is imperishable.
43 It is sown in dishonor;
it is raised in glory.
It is sown in weakness;
it is raised in power.
44 It is sown a natural body;
it is raised a spiritual body.
If there is a natural body,
there is also a spiritual body.
1 Corinthians 15:42-44
So we will be transformed into a glorified body.
When a person puts a seed into the ground
The seed 'dies',
however....
from it
comes 'life.
What will grow is not going to look
like the small seed,
it will be bigger, more complex, more beautiful, more glorious etc.
but it will have the same life principal.
Life on earth is a continuing process
of decay, and destruction,
not unlike what happens to a seed
when planted in the ground
But we will be changed....
52 in a moment,
in the twinkling of an eye,
at the last trumpet.
For the trumpet will sound,
and the dead will be raised imperishable,
and we shall be changed.
1 Corinthians 15:52
But, that being said,
God will one day destroy this universe
and create a New Heaven and a New Earth.
No matter,
one thing the believer can count on is:
they will be with the Lord forever!
"......for he has said, “I will never leave you nor forsake you.”
Hebrews 13:5
so we will be with Jesus in this present Heaven when we die
and we can also look forward to the New Heaven and New Earth
13 But according to his promise
we are waiting for
new heavens and a new earth
in which righteousness dwells.
2 Peter 3:13
Done for Today
However we will get them
at the 2nd coming of Christ." This is wrong in two ways. First, We get our new bodies at the rapture, not at the second coming. Second, since there is no such thing as "time" in heaven, we will not have to "wait" to get our bodies. I'm aware that many teachers say there's an in between state. But that's simply because they forgot about there not being time in heaven. Time is something God created just for this earth while we're here. I don't know if there will be any time on the new earth as He doesn't say, but there is none in heaven. However, like many other things, such as describing God, His feelings and thoughts and what He's going to do, the Bible uses terms that are familiar to us to help us to understand things, and time is one of the things it uses that way. So we will get our new bodies at death since there is no time or at the rapture if we don't die before then. The verses you quoted about being at home in the body or away from the body are simply Paul's way of talking about life and death. Just like people today seem to have an aversion to saying someone died; so instead they'll say that the person "passed away", or "went to their reward" or any other number of sayings.
Well we really need to discuss this a bit more because you didn't explain at all about the difference between right after we die and eternity, other then saying there will be a new earth. I can't remember if I mentioned that "Heaven" is not "out there" somewhere beyond the universe or something, but it's not. It's more like a parallel world. Again, it's hard to explain using words that describe a physical plane. We need to remember that there is more to our existence then just the physical dimension; there is a spiritual dimension as well.
Think back to Elisha and what happened in 2 Kings 6. His servant woke him one morning saying they were surrounded by an enemies army and was very scared. But instead of being concerned about it, Elisha simply prayed and asked God to open his servant's eyes. He then told his servant to look out the window again. When he did, he saw that the enemies army was surrounded by angel warriors and there were many more of them then there were of the enemy army! So all the people and angels were right there in the same area at the very same time, but most people simply couldn't see the angels because they're part of the spiritual dimension. Those who are in the spiritual dimension can see and interact with the physical dimension if they want to, but we can't see them unless God supernaturally allows us to. Heaven is part of the spiritual dimension.
Furthermore, New Jerusalem is in many ways Heaven. That's where we'll live for a long time. That's where God will dwell with us during Eternity (Rev 21) when New Jerusalem will somehow be brought down to land on the new earth that God will make for us. (that happens after the Great White Throne Judgement). To me, this is the start of "eternity", because this is when this statement of God will finally be true for all of us: “He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”” (Revelation 21:4)
So as you can see there's quite a difference between heaven now and heaven then....although, just to confuse us totally, since there is no time in heaven....  But as you can see there's a great deal more to discuss!
I will have to go tomorrow and see what you said....
I have not been sleeping well for about a week or so
concentrating is not at my best.
So if I do not quite get what you are asking
then inform me :)
But I will try
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Post by Cindy on Jan 6, 2021 9:48:37 GMT -5
So I think this was the beginning of your suggestions:
“Jesus said to her,
“I am the resurrection and the life.
He who believes in me will live,
even though he dies;
and whoever lives and believes in me will never die.
Do you believe this?””
(John 11:25–26)
You wrote this:
"What you said, that we all need to answer this question, is true;
but we can't really answer it if we don't understand what Jesus is saying.
Most folks get all tied up at the part where He says that
someone will live even if he dies...
it doesn't make sense to most people"
So to start:
Jesus said those words when He resurrected Lazarus from death.
Lazarus's body was dead.
All the physical processes that we attribute to being alive,
had stopped
and decay had set in.
We can have basically only two options when thinking about death.
A secular one, which says when you die,
that is the absolute end for you.
But is that true:
32 ‘I am the God of Abraham,
and the God of Isaac,
and the God of Jacob’.
He is not God of the dead,
but of the living.”
Matthew 22:32
Or....
a Biblical ( Christian) option,
in which 'life' continues,
but you have moved to a different place
either: Heaven or Hell.
28 And do not fear those who kill the body
but cannot kill the soul.
Rather fear him
who can destroy both soul and body
in hell.
Matthew 10:28
Resurrection with Jesus
being in Heaven is great!
Otherwise being resurrected
to Hell will be terrifying.
Jesus is the Lord of 'death'
( in that,
Hell will be like eternal death,
punishment, pain, suffering, etc.)
But for those who are saved,
He is the King of
eternal life
Believers in Jesus already have eternal life.
Their bodies will eventually die,
but they already have eternal life
and their bodies will be resurrected.
Unless we are raptured,
all of us will die....
Often this is around the amount of time we have:
9 For all our days pass away under your wrath;
we bring our years to an end like a sigh.
10 The years of our life are seventy,
or even by reason of strength eighty;
Psalms 90
I also wrote this yesterday
which also explains this issue a little
This is what I wrote:
42 So is it with the resurrection of the dead.
What is sown is perishable;
what is raised is imperishable.
43 It is sown in dishonor;
it is raised in glory.
It is sown in weakness;
it is raised in power.
44 It is sown a natural body;
it is raised a spiritual body.
If there is a natural body,
there is also a spiritual body.
1 Corinthians 15:42-44
So we will be transformed into a glorified body.
When a person puts a seed into the ground
The seed 'dies',
however....
from it's 'death'
comes 'life.
What will grow, is not going to look
like the small seed,
it will be bigger,
more complex,
more beautiful,
more glorious etc.
but it will have the same life principal.
Life on earth is
a continuing process
of decay, and destruction,
not unlike what happens to a seed
when planted in the ground
But we will be changed....
52 in a moment,
in the twinkling of an eye,
at the last trumpet.
For the trumpet will sound,
and the dead will be raised imperishable,
and we shall be changed.
1 Corinthians 15:52
So dying is a process
and with the resurrection
of the Christian...
getting an improved,
superior,
exceptional,
surpassing body.
28 Do not marvel at this,
for an hour is coming
when all who are in the tombs
will hear his voice
29 and come out,
those who have done good to the resurrection of life,
and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment.
John 5:28,29
The Christian actually has
already died:
2 Set your minds on things that are above,
not on things that are on earth.
3 For you have died,
and your life is hidden with Christ in God.
Colossians 3:2,3
We can now look at death from this perspective:
“O death, where is your victory?
O death, where is your sting?”
1 Corinthians 15:55
And also this:
23 I am hard pressed between the two.
My desire is to depart and be with Christ,
for that is far better.
Philippians 1:23
so I will stop for today
and work on it tomorrow
Done for Today
I agree with what you said, which is that your body dies, but not your spirit. All I would add to that is that no person is their body, they simply use their body, but it is not who they are. They can know that for sure by realizing that if we cut off various parts of their body, they would still be alive and nothing about who they really are would be changed. They would still have all the same characteristics that made them who they are. So our bodies are nothing more then a vehicle for us to use. Therefore, when your body dies, it's no big deal (if you're going to heaven anyway) because faster then you can blink, it will be replaced with a new body. It will be the same for those who go to hell, but while their new body will never die, it can and will experience pain for eternity.
I'm sure an unsaved person would still be stubborn enough to still pretend to not understand what Jesus said, but between what you said and I said, trying to convince them any longer wouldn't be worth it as it would be obvious by now, that they don't' want to understand.
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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Post by fearnot on Jan 6, 2021 10:15:12 GMT -5
I agree that heaven is like a parallel universe
like when Jesus said: the kingdom of heaven is at hand
But the reason I said it was beyond our universe
was something I read that
John MacArthur had said:
"You see, wherever our universe ends, the universe as we know it, the time-and-space universe, wherever it ends, it is surrounded by infinite, eternal heaven.
So heaven isn’t up there, heaven is -
it is the infinity of the presence of God that surrounds the almost endless universe.
It’s incredible. It encircles our universe and is as big is our God.
Now listen, heaven is up.
It’s up beyond everything that we know in the material universe.
It is as big as God.
It is that which engulfs within it the material universe as we know it, which is billions and billions and billions of light years to its extensions.
And it is that which is the heaven of God which embraces this universe in its midst.
Now, you can’t keep thinking about that because what you’ve got beyond the universe that’s created, the universe of time and space as we know it, is infinity.
And it is as infinite as God is infinite and that’s how infinite heaven is.
We can’t handle it because we are captive to a time/space mentality.
We cannot conceive of endless, eternal heaven. But that’s what the Bible teaches".
But that was not the whole sum of what Pastor MacArthur has said concerning what the Bible says about heaven.
Not unlike you mention the New Jerusalem was also 'Heaven'
He has said a lot about heaven.....just one other thing for now:
" So, in a sense, heaven is a place
and it is also a state of being.
We are not in the place called heaven,
but we are in the sphere or the state of being that is called the heavenlies.
That is, we live in the sphere where God rules.
We’re not yet in the heaven of heavens, but we are under the rule of God in the sphere of His spiritual dominion over the hearts and lives of those who believe in Him through Jesus Christ.
That’s why Ephesians 1 says we’ve been blessed with all spiritual blessings in the heavenlies.
We already are tasting heavenly life.
We have a taste of it by the presence of the indwelling Holy Spirit......."
I was and am tired
and so I pulled from just one statement he made, as you can see.
I am not sure exactly where to go next
I may be jumping ahead to soon arrrggghhh
I am a wee bit lost
but will move on to the New Jerusalem, because you had just recently mentioned it
( but maybe not for me to talk about it yet LOL)
Oh well, we can always go backwards tomorrow
if I zoomed ahead to fast.
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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Post by fearnot on Jan 6, 2021 10:47:09 GMT -5
At the present, we are living in 'this' universe
and on 'this' earth
but there is coming a time,
when God will destroy this universe
and this earth.
All the host of heaven shall rot away,
and the skies roll up like a scroll.
Isaiah 34:4
and this
“For behold, I create new heavens
and a new earth,
and
the former things shall not be remembered
or come into mind.
Isaiah 65:17
This too
25 Of old you laid the foundation of the earth,
and the heavens are the work of your hands.
26 They will perish, but you will remain;
they will all wear out like a garment.
You will change them like a robe,
and they will pass away,
Psalms 102
And in the New Testament also:
13 But according to his promise
we are waiting for new heavens
and a new earth
in which righteousness dwells.
2 Peter 3:13
Plus
Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth,
for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away,
and the sea was no more.
Revelation 21:1
So for those who say, the Bible is
so unscientific
I would say, this foretelling thousands of years
about the 'eventual' dying of the universe
way before 'science' even had a clue
about the 2nd law of thermodynamics
puts that to rest.
'wearing out' sounds a lot like the 2nd law
Although, the Bible goes beyond
just a cold death
over so many trillions of years!
The Bible
says it will be completely destroyed
and
and new one created....
and not, in some trillion zillion years from now.
However, in addition to the end of this universe
and the creation of the new eternal one
there is also this:
12 The one who conquers,
I will make him a pillar in the temple of my God.
Never shall he go out of it,
and I will write on him the name of my God,
and the name of the city of my God,
the new Jerusalem,
which comes down from my God out of heaven,
and my own new name.
Revelation 3:12
Notice:
the new Jerusalem
Which will be
in the new Creation
Heaven on Earth
It comes down
out of Heaven
2 And I saw the holy city,
new Jerusalem,
coming down out of heaven from God,
prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
Revelation 21:2
it seems this could even be the city
Abraham longed for:
10 For he (Abraham)
was looking forward to the city
that has foundations,
whose designer and builder is God.
Hebrews 11:10
Done for Today
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Post by Cindy on Jan 7, 2021 10:41:48 GMT -5
I agree that heaven is like a parallel universe
like when Jesus said: the kingdom of heaven is at hand
But the reason I said it was beyond our universe
was something I read that
John MacArthur had said:
"You see, wherever our universe ends, the universe as we know it, the time-and-space universe, wherever it ends, it is surrounded by infinite, eternal heaven.
So heaven isn’t up there, heaven is -
it is the infinity of the presence of God that surrounds the almost endless universe.
It’s incredible. It encircles our universe and is as big is our God.
Now listen, heaven is up.
It’s up beyond everything that we know in the material universe.
It is as big as God.
It is that which engulfs within it the material universe as we know it, which is billions and billions and billions of light years to its extensions.
And it is that which is the heaven of God which embraces this universe in its midst.
Now, you can’t keep thinking about that because what you’ve got beyond the universe that’s created, the universe of time and space as we know it, is infinity.
And it is as infinite as God is infinite and that’s how infinite heaven is.
We can’t handle it because we are captive to a time/space mentality.
We cannot conceive of endless, eternal heaven. But that’s what the Bible teaches".
But that was not the whole sum of what Pastor MacArthur has said concerning what the Bible says about heaven.
Not unlike you mention the New Jerusalem was also 'Heaven'
He has said a lot about heaven.....just one other thing for now:
" So, in a sense, heaven is a place
and it is also a state of being.
We are not in the place called heaven,
but we are in the sphere or the state of being that is called the heavenlies.
That is, we live in the sphere where God rules.
We’re not yet in the heaven of heavens, but we are under the rule of God in the sphere of His spiritual dominion over the hearts and lives of those who believe in Him through Jesus Christ.
That’s why Ephesians 1 says we’ve been blessed with all spiritual blessings in the heavenlies.
We already are tasting heavenly life.
We have a taste of it by the presence of the indwelling Holy Spirit......."
I was and am tired
and so I pulled from just one statement he made, as you can see.
I am not sure exactly where to go next
I may be jumping ahead to soon arrrggghhh
I am a wee bit lost
but will move on to the New Jerusalem, because you had just recently mentioned it
( but maybe not for me to talk about it yet LOL)
Oh well, we can always go backwards tomorrow
if I zoomed ahead to fast.
At the present, we are living in 'this' universe
and on 'this' earth
but there is coming a time,
when God will destroy this universe
and this earth.
All the host of heaven shall rot away,
and the skies roll up like a scroll.
Isaiah 34:4
and this
“For behold, I create new heavens
and a new earth,
and
the former things shall not be remembered
or come into mind.
Isaiah 65:17
This too
25 Of old you laid the foundation of the earth,
and the heavens are the work of your hands.
26 They will perish, but you will remain;
they will all wear out like a garment.
You will change them like a robe,
and they will pass away,
Psalms 102
And in the New Testament also:
13 But according to his promise
we are waiting for new heavens
and a new earth
in which righteousness dwells.
2 Peter 3:13
Plus
Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth,
for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away,
and the sea was no more.
Revelation 21:1
So for those who say, the Bible is
so unscientific
I would say, this foretelling thousands of years
about the 'eventual' dying of the universe
way before 'science' even had a clue
about the 2nd law of thermodynamics
puts that to rest.
'wearing out' sounds a lot like the 2nd law
Although, the Bible goes beyond
just a cold death
over so many trillions of years!
The Bible
says it will be completely destroyed
and
and new one created....
and not, in some trillion zillion years from now.
However, in addition to the end of this universe
and the creation of the new eternal one
there is also this:
12 The one who conquers,
I will make him a pillar in the temple of my God.
Never shall he go out of it,
and I will write on him the name of my God,
and the name of the city of my God,
the new Jerusalem,
which comes down from my God out of heaven,
and my own new name.
Revelation 3:12
Notice:
the new Jerusalem
Which will be
in the new Creation
Heaven on Earth
It comes down
out of Heaven
2 And I saw the holy city,
new Jerusalem,
coming down out of heaven from God,
prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
Revelation 21:2
it seems this could even be the city
Abraham longed for:
10 For he (Abraham)
was looking forward to the city
that has foundations,
whose designer and builder is God.
Hebrews 11:10
Done for Today
 good one! Yes, it was the city Abraham longed for, because that's where his citizenship was and is, just as it's where ours is. I'm sure looking forward to going Home soon, and I know you are too! I wanted to clear up something I said yesterday:
Furthermore, New Jerusalem is in many ways Heaven. That's where we'll live for a long time. That's where God will dwell with us during Eternity (Rev 21) when New Jerusalem will somehow be brought down to land on the new earth that God will make for us. (that happens after the Great White Throne Judgement). To me, this is the start of "eternity", because this is when this statement of God will finally be true for all of us: “He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”” (Revelation 21:4) Most people think that will be true from the moment they enter Heaven and I used to as well. But the only way that could happen would be because there's no time in Heaven. Yet, the Bible tells us that there will be some Christians that will go to heaven but Jesus will be ashamed of them. I can not imagine that those people would not cry when Jesus told them He was ashamed of them. I'm sure they will and they will be tears of sorrow. I can also see most of the rest of us crying tears of Joy, but that kind of tears is not what that passage is talking about. There will also be some people, perhaps even those same ones that Jesus is ashamed of, that will not receive any rewards, but will have lost them all. I don't see them rejoicing when that's announced at the Bema Judgement. Since God can't lie, I realized that there must be a time when people could experience sorrow after going to heaven and a time when that would be impossible. As I'm not God, I can't say for sure how this will work. Perhaps the time when sorrow is allowed will be right after people enter heaven and go through the Bema judgment. Or maybe it's allowed until after the Great White Throne Judgement. That seems to make the most sense, but then I'm seeing it as someone who can't imagine there not being a past, present and future. I see things based on "time" like everyone else here because that's how God created this world to be lived in. I honestly can't begin to even imagine what it would be like living without the construct of time. I'm not even sure if we can. Perhaps God will make it seem like time passes in heaven just for us.... I have no idea. To me it doesn't really matter though. What does matter is that from what the Bible says, we should do all we can to live in such as way as to make Jesus proud of us. Then we won't have to worry about being ashamed before Him!
Here's a few of the verses that talk about people being ashamed when they get to heaven.
“And now, dear children, continue in him, so that when he appears we may be confident and unashamed before him at his coming.” (1 John 2:28)
“If anyone is ashamed of me and my words, the Son of Man will be ashamed of him when he comes in his glory and in the glory of the Father and of the holy angels.” (Luke 9:26)
“But whoever disowns me before men, I will disown him before my Father in heaven.” (Matthew 10:33)
“I eagerly expect and hope that I will in no way be ashamed, but will have sufficient courage so that now as always Christ will be exalted in my body, whether by life or by death.” (Philippians 1:20)
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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Post by fearnot on Jan 7, 2021 13:03:29 GMT -5
Back to the New Jerusalem.
I am thinking, that in a way, this verse
might have more meaning than usual today:
14 For here we have no lasting city,
but we seek the city that is to come.
Hebrews 13:14
Revelation 21 gives a more detailed description
of the New Jerusalem
so I will separate the verses a bit,
Here is verses one and two:
1 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth,
for the first heaven and the first earth
had passed away,
and the sea was no more.
2 And I saw the holy city,
new Jerusalem,
coming down out of heaven from God,
prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
Revelation 21:1,2
Brides are almost always beautiful
and so I think it safe to say
so will the new Jerusalem be!
And when we think of 'bride' in this context,
we think of Jesus as the bridegroom
and believers ( the Church), Christians
as the bride:
Let us rejoice and exult
and give him the glory,
for the marriage of the Lamb has come,
and his Bride has made herself ready;
Revelation 19:7
Believers will forever be safe and loved
and with Jesus.
3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying,
“Behold, the dwelling place of God is with man.
He will dwell with them,
and they will be his people,
and God himself will be with them as their God.
4 He will wipe away every tear from their eyes,
and death shall be no more,
neither shall there be mourning,
nor crying,
nor pain anymore,
or the former things have passed away.”
Revelation 21
Perfect love, forever and ever!
The New Jerusalem will be stunning in every way.
For starts it says this about the city:
11 having the glory of God,
its radiance like a most rare jewel,
like a jasper,
clear as crystal.
Revelation 21:11
Which coincides with these verses I think:
19 The sun shall be no more
your light by day,
nor for brightness shall the moon
give you light;
but the Lord will be your everlasting light,
and your God will be your glory.
20 Your sun shall no more go down,
nor your moon withdraw itself;
for the Lord will be your everlasting light,
and your days of mourning shall be ended.
Isaiah 60:19,20
and this:
23 And the city has no need of sun or moon to shine on it,
for the glory of God gives it light,
and its lamp is the Lamb.
Revelation 21:23
This also:
25 and its gates will never be shut by day—
and there will be no night there.
Revelation 21:25
Done for Today
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Post by Cindy on Jan 8, 2021 10:25:50 GMT -5
Back to the New Jerusalem.
I am thinking, that in a way, this verse
might have more meaning than usual today:
14 For here we have no lasting city,
but we seek the city that is to come.
Hebrews 13:14
Revelation 21 gives a more detailed description
of the New Jerusalem
so I will separate the verses a bit,
Here is verses one and two:
1 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth,
for the first heaven and the first earth
had passed away,
and the sea was no more.
2 And I saw the holy city,
new Jerusalem,
coming down out of heaven from God,
prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
Revelation 21:1,2
Brides are almost always beautiful
and so I think it safe to say
so will the new Jerusalem be!
And when we think of 'bride' in this context,
we think of Jesus as the bridegroom
and believers ( the Church), Christians
as the bride:
Let us rejoice and exult
and give him the glory,
for the marriage of the Lamb has come,
and his Bride has made herself ready;
Revelation 19:7
Believers will forever be safe and loved
and with Jesus.
3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying,
“Behold, the dwelling place of God is with man.
He will dwell with them,
and they will be his people,
and God himself will be with them as their God.
4 He will wipe away every tear from their eyes,
and death shall be no more,
neither shall there be mourning,
nor crying,
nor pain anymore,
or the former things have passed away.”
Revelation 21
Perfect love, forever and ever!
The New Jerusalem will be stunning in every way.
For starts it says this about the city:
11 having the glory of God,
its radiance like a most rare jewel,
like a jasper,
clear as crystal.
Revelation 21:11
Which coincides with these verses I think:
19 The sun shall be no more
your light by day,
nor for brightness shall the moon
give you light;
but the Lord will be your everlasting light,
and your God will be your glory.
20 Your sun shall no more go down,
nor your moon withdraw itself;
for the Lord will be your everlasting light,
and your days of mourning shall be ended.
Isaiah 60:19,20
and this:
23 And the city has no need of sun or moon to shine on it,
for the glory of God gives it light,
and its lamp is the Lamb.
Revelation 21:23
This also:
25 and its gates will never be shut by day—
and there will be no night there.
Revelation 21:25
Done for Today
 Well done! I wasn't sure if you saw what I posted before so wanted to post it again here: I added more things to the list of what we could study next and posted it in this forum here:
Other Studies we could do However, let's start a new thread for each one ok? |
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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Post by fearnot on Jan 9, 2021 13:29:19 GMT -5
Oh thanks for re-posting those new ones....
I did NOT see them arrrggghhh
I do have an idea tho....
Since I tend to go a smidge faster on each topic
than what you know they deserve
Maybe, you could determine when
to switch to a new topic?
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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Post by fearnot on Jan 9, 2021 14:41:39 GMT -5
Back to the New Jerusalem
This New Jerusalem,
will be in the New Earth
and new Heaven.
It will be very different than the earth,
and universe than we have now....
So much so, we really cannot even imagine.
When we think of a 'city'
in our world today,
it often has both good and bad parts to it....
I don't think, the New Jerusalem
will be much like any city we know of.
However, God does tell us a little
about it's design:
We read that
( just the city)
will be about 1,400 miles long,
wide and as high as it is long—
in other words....a perfect cube.
This is a very very very BIG city!!!
John MacArthur says that comes to 2.25 million square miles
so yeah....pretty big!!
16 The city lies foursquare,
its length the same as its width.
And he measured the city with his rod,
12,000 stadia.
Its length and width and height are equal.
Revelation 21:16
It has twelve foundations, with the names of the twelve apostles,
and has every kind of precious stone”
14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations,
and on them were the twelve names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
Revelation 21:14
Also It has twelve gates, each a single pearl,
with the names of the twelve tribes of Israel ).
On earth the pearl is made by a wound in the oyster.
Great suffering created such beauty,
and this will forever remind us of Jesus's great suffering
for us,
out of love, we can never imagine.
12 It had a great, high wall,
with twelve gates,
and at the gates twelve angels,
and on the gates the names of the twelve tribes of the sons of Israel were inscribed—
13 on the east three gates,
on the north three gates,
on the south three gates,
and on the west three gates
Revelation 21:12,13
Also the street will be made of pure gold.
21 And the twelve gates were twelve pearls,
each of the gates made of a single pearl,
and the street of the city was pure gold,
like transparent glass.
Revelation 21:21
Gates are a clue, that we are not just going to be in the city
there will be an entire infinite universe to explore,
so we will be going in and out of the city.
Done for today
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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Post by fearnot on Jan 10, 2021 11:01:46 GMT -5
So reading about the New Jerusalem we discover it has a Huge wall.
There is no longer anything evil, scary, hurtful left
So perhaps this wall is just for design and beauty.....
after all God is THE Master artist....
And beautiful it is also!
17 He also measured its wall,
144 cubits (72 yards) by human measurement,
which is also an angel's measurement.
18 The wall was built of jasper,
while the city was pure gold, like clear glass.
19 The foundations of the wall of the city were adorned with every kind of jewel.
The first was jasper,
the second sapphire,
the third agate,
the fourth emerald,
20 the fifth onyx,
the sixth carnelian,
the seventh chrysolite,
the eighth beryl,
the ninth topaz,
the tenth chrysoprase,
the eleventh jacinth,
the twelfth amethyst
Revelation 21:17
Even tho, we read of specific jewels
I suspect, these will be so far superior
than whatever these stones look like today.
I am speculating, that perhaps the apostle John
was giving his best approximation
Just like today, even in our terribly fallen world
we see amazing astounding beauty
however, it is soot covered compared to
what it was in the Garden of Eden before sin
came in,
and spoiled even nature....
So when we have our new bodies
and a New Heaven and earth
I personally think, we can only get
the smallest glimmer of its glorious and majestic beauty.
For example, it says the city
was pure gold, 'like' clear glass
Well, I don't 'think' anyone has ever seen
pure gold, be like clear glass?
Still, I think, that will be magnificent!
These walls will be about 1,380 miles long
on each side as well....
as well as in height!!!
Done for Today
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Post by Cindy on Jan 11, 2021 11:21:11 GMT -5
Oh thanks for re-posting those new ones....
I did NOT see them arrrggghhh
I do have an idea tho....
Since I tend to go a smidge faster on each topic
than what you know they deserve
Maybe, you could determine when
to switch to a new topic?
Back to the New Jerusalem
This New Jerusalem,
will be in the New Earth
and new Heaven.
It will be very different than the earth,
and universe than we have now....
So much so, we really cannot even imagine.
When we think of a 'city'
in our world today,
it often has both good and bad parts to it....
I don't think, the New Jerusalem
will be much like any city we know of.
However, God does tell us a little
about it's design:
We read that
( just the city)
will be about 1,400 miles long,
wide and as high as it is long—
in other words....a perfect cube.
This is a very very very BIG city!!!
John MacArthur says that comes to 2.25 million square miles
so yeah....pretty big!!
16 The city lies foursquare,
its length the same as its width.
And he measured the city with his rod,
12,000 stadia.
Its length and width and height are equal.
Revelation 21:16
It has twelve foundations, with the names of the twelve apostles,
and has every kind of precious stone”
14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations,
and on them were the twelve names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
Revelation 21:14
Also It has twelve gates, each a single pearl,
with the names of the twelve tribes of Israel ).
On earth the pearl is made by a wound in the oyster.
Great suffering created such beauty,
and this will forever remind us of Jesus's great suffering
for us,
out of love, we can never imagine.
12 It had a great, high wall,
with twelve gates,
and at the gates twelve angels,
and on the gates the names of the twelve tribes of the sons of Israel were inscribed—
13 on the east three gates,
on the north three gates,
on the south three gates,
and on the west three gates
Revelation 21:12,13
Also the street will be made of pure gold.
21 And the twelve gates were twelve pearls,
each of the gates made of a single pearl,
and the street of the city was pure gold,
like transparent glass.
Revelation 21:21
Gates are a clue, that we are not just going to be in the city
there will be an entire infinite universe to explore,
so we will be going in and out of the city.
Done for today
So reading about the New Jerusalem we discover it has a Huge wall.
There is no longer anything evil, scary, hurtful left
So perhaps this wall is just for design and beauty.....
after all God is THE Master artist....
And beautiful it is also!
17 He also measured its wall,
144 cubits (72 yards) by human measurement,
which is also an angel's measurement.
18 The wall was built of jasper,
while the city was pure gold, like clear glass.
19 The foundations of the wall of the city were adorned with every kind of jewel.
The first was jasper,
the second sapphire,
the third agate,
the fourth emerald,
20 the fifth onyx,
the sixth carnelian,
the seventh chrysolite,
the eighth beryl,
the ninth topaz,
the tenth chrysoprase,
the eleventh jacinth,
the twelfth amethyst
Revelation 21:17
Even tho, we read of specific jewels
I suspect, these will be so far superior
than whatever these stones look like today.
I am speculating, that perhaps the apostle John
was giving his best approximation
Just like today, even in our terribly fallen world
we see amazing astounding beauty
however, it is soot covered compared to
what it was in the Garden of Eden before sin
came in,
and spoiled even nature....
So when we have our new bodies
and a New Heaven and earth
I personally think, we can only get
the smallest glimmer of its glorious and majestic beauty.
For example, it says the city
was pure gold, 'like' clear glass
Well, I don't 'think' anyone has ever seen
pure gold, be like clear glass?
Still, I think, that will be magnificent!
These walls will be about 1,380 miles long
on each side as well....
as well as in height!!!
Done for Today
But first, keep in mind what God says in Revelation 21:4 and Isaiah 25:8 about there being no more death, crying, sorrow, etc? Isaiah has something to say about the new heavens and earth too, but I'll only quote one verse: ““Behold, I will create new heavens and a new earth. The former things will not be remembered, nor will they come to mind.” (Isaiah 65:17) I imagine other people have asked the same question I have about "heaven"... will we remember all that happened while we were living our lives here now? Well, I think this verse gives us the answer to that question or at least points us in the right direction. What I've understood so far from the entire Bible is that we will remember these lives when we go to heaven at first. (I'm speaking as though time matters in heaven, only because that's really the only way we can understand it at this point). I think that we will remember up till about the end of the Millennial Kingdom and the Great White Throne Judgment. But, that right after that Judgment, when God creates the New Heavens and earth, that's when we will suddenly no longer remember anything except our love for the Lord and for each other and all that's happened in Heaven. In fact, I hadn't realized it before now, but that's exactly what the Left Behind books show happening in the last book! I'd forgotten all about that! Now I remember that when I read that part I wondered where they got the scriptures for that, or even if there were any. lol Well I guess the Lord has shown me where they are!
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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Post by fearnot on Jan 11, 2021 12:09:53 GMT -5
I am going to move onto another topic....
I am thinking it will be short
( ha-ha watch it be long, now that I said that)
I was thinking, I would get into some of the longer ones, soon.
But today, since I am still super tired....
it is raining out, and that does not help....
it adds to my sleepy mode, big time.
And I know,
I most likely can look forward to
a few more months of almost every day rain....
so I will just have to bite the bullet
I don't have my tea yet either,
I was so tired, I didn't even make it....
but I think I need it sigh!
Anyway, for today or just a few days....I thought I would look at this one:
Did Gamaliel give the Sanhedrin good or bad advice?
(Acts 5:34–39) What can we learn from this?
However, I will start it as a new topic.
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Reading this made me think of something that I found interesting and thought you might like to, so let me share it with you: 
But as you can see there's a great deal more to discuss!
!!
