fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383 
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2 john
Jul 23, 2019 11:18:06 GMT -5
Post by fearnot on Jul 23, 2019 11:18:06 GMT -5
2 John
Greeting
John starts with a greeting to a lady and her children.....and really all who know the truth....
"that abides in us and will be with us forever"
We are so in need of true truth today and most are so far away from it and sliding so fast away from it, it seems hopeless.
However, the truth remains and will 'forever' so hope is not really lost!!
This reminds me of a guest pastor J. D. Farag had on yesterday. He was talking about how Christians today are full of fear of sharing their faith. He mentioned it is rare we talk to someone and they immediately fall to their knees and except the Lord and are saved.
So most figure they don't even need to try because that is not going to happen....but showing every person you meet or see each day, love ( even a smile to a stranger....baby steps if necessary....they are a start and a beginning).
And Pastor Farag mentioned that now when people ask: How are you doing?
Instead of saying: OK
He now says: I am blessed
That really caught my attention....it is a small way of speaking the TRUTH....we are 'blessed".
We also have as John says in his greeting: "Grace, mercy, and peace will be with us"
Walking in Truth and Love
As it turns out John encourages her to walk in truth and love.
Then however he talks about deceivers and it seems totally unloving when he says, don't invite them in.
The problem is when we allow things and people who are deceived and deceive others into our home, we may not realize the danger.
We may even think by showing them love we can evangelize them.
However we are to be kind, and give them the gospel, but we are not called to be best friends with the unbeliever.
What happens almost always is it is we who have to compromise....listen to them swear, tell off color jokes, make allowances for their sins....that they are not sorry about but rather DEMAND as their right etc etc etc.
And we seldom actually get to talk to God and the Bible to them but slowly their poison begins to seep into our family.
We can love them, give them the gospel, pray for them, but we have to put God first....not compromise thinking we are doing some good for them and God.
In fact it does them no good when we take part in their wicked ways.
Hopefully you or Cindy will choose the next book before I get here tomorrow. :-)
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anna
Trials
Posts: 1,995
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2 john
Jul 24, 2019 6:50:23 GMT -5
Post by anna on Jul 24, 2019 6:50:23 GMT -5
I was walking through the living room and Ron was listening to J.D. Farag and I did hear what you mentioned that J.D. said and I also thought that was well said. People can say they are doing good, the Bible says, no man is good, but we can say we are blessed by the Lord. If a person wants to hear more from that person who said they are blessed then they will ask the person how they are blessed and if a person is not interested they won't ask.
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2 john
Jul 24, 2019 10:56:58 GMT -5
Post by Cindy on Jul 24, 2019 10:56:58 GMT -5
2 John
Greeting
John starts with a greeting to a lady and her children.....and really all who know the truth....
"that abides in us and will be with us forever"
We are so in need of true truth today and most are so far away from it and sliding so fast away from it, it seems hopeless.
However, the truth remains and will 'forever' so hope is not really lost!!
This reminds me of a guest pastor J. D. Farag had on yesterday. He was talking about how Christians today are full of fear of sharing their faith. He mentioned it is rare we talk to someone and they immediately fall to their knees and except the Lord and are saved.
So most figure they don't even need to try because that is not going to happen....but showing every person you meet or see each day, love ( even a smile to a stranger....baby steps if necessary....they are a start and a beginning).
And Pastor Farag mentioned that now when people ask: How are you doing?
Instead of saying: OK
He now says: I am blessed
That really caught my attention....it is a small way of speaking the TRUTH....we are 'blessed".
We also have as John says in his greeting: "Grace, mercy, and peace will be with us"
Walking in Truth and Love
As it turns out John encourages her to walk in truth and love.
Then however he talks about deceivers and it seems totally unloving when he says, don't invite them in.
The problem is when we allow things and people who are deceived and deceive others into our home, we may not realize the danger.
We may even think by showing them love we can evangelize them.
However we are to be kind, and give them the gospel, but we are not called to be best friends with the unbeliever.
What happens almost always is it is we who have to compromise....listen to them swear, tell off color jokes, make allowances for their sins....that they are not sorry about but rather DEMAND as their right etc etc etc.
And we seldom actually get to talk to God and the Bible to them but slowly their poison begins to seep into our family.
We can love them, give them the gospel, pray for them, but we have to put God first....not compromise thinking we are doing some good for them and God.
In fact it does them no good when we take part in their wicked ways.
Hopefully you or Cindy will choose the next book before I get here tomorrow. :-)
Because we skipped around, it's hard to remember why John wrote this letter. If we'd done 1 John first, and then this one, we'd have remembered that he wrote this to combat the false doctrines that were threatening this church. In his 1st letter the false doctrines were applied to the congregational setting, and here they're applied to a family setting. The first one was that Jesus wasn't fully God and fully man. That's one of the greatest errors in many cults and churches today even, that they deny the true nature of Christ.
In 2 John 8 we're warned that we can lose some of our heavenly rewards if we don't discriminate about who we fellowship with based on the Truth. What we'll do for eternity is based on our faithfulness to God here, so this is an important warning. We can't lose our salvation, but we can lose some or even all of our rewards. 2 John 9 warns us that those who don't continue or abide in the true teachings of Jesus have never really been saved to start with. The apostates like to make people think they're ahead of their time and have progressed ahead of others, when in fact they were never saved at all! We need to be aware of people like that and stay away from them which is what 2 John 10–11 tells us! We need to completely disassociate ourselves from heretics. Just as God rewards us for any part we may play in another salvation, even if it's just introducing them to the idea that God exists, so we will be held accountable if we have anything to do with a heretic, a false teacher. Our words and actions are important! If the Truth lives in us (2 John 2) which it does if we are saved, then how can we associate with lies and liars? As we're told by Paul: “Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness? What harmony is there between Christ and Belial? What does a believer have in common with an unbeliever? What agreement is there between the temple of God and idols? For we are the temple of the living God. As God has said: “I will live with them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they will be my people.” “Therefore come out from them and be separate, says the Lord. Touch no unclean thing, and I will receive you.” “I will be a Father to you, and you will be my sons and daughters, says the Lord Almighty.”” (2 Corinthians 6:14–18)
Just to be clear, there's a big difference between someone who makes a mistake when teaching the Bible and a false teacher. All who are saved will sometimes make mistakes when teaching the Bible. The difference is that when the Lord shows them the Truth, they immediately repent and teach what He's shown them. (If the Lord shows Him, which He usually will, either through another Christian, a commentary, or the Holy Spirit.) A false teacher is someone who continues to teach a core doctrine falsely, even after they've been shown the Truth. When we disagree with someone who is teaching something that's not a core doctrine, that doesn't automatically make them a false teacher. It just makes them mistaken - assuming our understanding is correct. We should never ever call someone a false teacher unless they are teaching falsely about a core doctrine and we know they've been warned and are continuing to do so. (A core doctrine is a doctrine we must believe in order to be saved.)
In the last 2 verses John tells them that he will speak to them about the truth when he comes to see them, which will make both his joy and theirs complete. John said something similar in the first letter when speaking about the truth. “We write this to make our joy complete.” (1 John 1:4) This is something Jesus Himself told us about His teachings: “I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and that your joy may be complete.” (John 15:11) and when He prayed to the Father: ““I am coming to you now, but I say these things while I am still in the world, so that they may have the full measure of my joy within them.” (John 17:13) The Truth brings us joy and that joy is even fuller when we fellowship with others who have His joy, with fellow Christians. The Truth actually brings us three things, love, joy, and peace, which are also the first fruits of the Spirit.
I was walking through the living room and Ron was listening to J.D. Farag and I did hear what you mentioned that J.D. said and I also thought that was well said. People can say they are doing good, the Bible says, no man is good, but we can say we are blessed by the Lord. If a person wants to hear more from that person who said they are blessed then they will ask the person how they are blessed and if a person is not interested they won't ask.  |
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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2 john
Aug 9, 2019 13:04:08 GMT -5
Post by fearnot on Aug 9, 2019 13:04:08 GMT -5
I did read your reply but did not reply to your reply LOL
Now I've read it twice, so thank you 2 times :-)
I do have a question about this:
"we're warned that we can lose some of our heavenly rewards if we don't discriminate about who we fellowship with based on the Truth. What we'll do for eternity is based on our faithfulness to God here, so this is an important warning".
I know we are to give unbelievers the gospel and while they are unbelievers we are not to be their 'best' friends....
But you have mentioned being 'kind' and not 'judgmental' about their sins so much
But here is where I am a little confused....if we start off first thing giving the gospel without any sort of kindness...
it may be easier for them to feel we have just 'shoved' our 'religion' down their throats....
instead of showing it by our kindness
Am I on the right track or no?
And then, when would we given them the gospel and once we do
tho the might be baby Christians with a lot of the 'worldly' habits still a big part of them....swearing, drinking to excess, or whatever....
But we need to 'hang' out with them more then, because we ought to help them, grow???
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2 john
Aug 19, 2019 10:09:17 GMT -5
Post by Cindy on Aug 19, 2019 10:09:17 GMT -5
I did read your reply but did not reply to your reply LOL
Now I've read it twice, so thank you 2 times :-)
I do have a question about this:
"we're warned that we can lose some of our heavenly rewards if we don't discriminate about who we fellowship with based on the Truth. What we'll do for eternity is based on our faithfulness to God here, so this is an important warning".
I know we are to give unbelievers the gospel and while they are unbelievers we are not to be their 'best' friends....
But you have mentioned being 'kind' and not 'judgmental' about their sins so much
But here is where I am a little confused....if we start off first thing giving the gospel without any sort of kindness...
it may be easier for them to feel we have just 'shoved' our 'religion' down their throats....
instead of showing it by our kindness
Am I on the right track or no?
And then, when would we given them the gospel and once we do
tho the might be baby Christians with a lot of the 'worldly' habits still a big part of them....swearing, drinking to excess, or whatever....
But we need to 'hang' out with them more then, because we ought to help them, grow???
As far as unbelievers go, the way we should act and speak toward them would make them think we were their very best friend in the whole world, because no one would be kinder, or more thoughtful, loving, or helpful then we would be to them. However, although we would of course speak about God and His Word to them as that would just be natural for us, and tell them the gospel when we could, being with them wouldn't be as satisfying to us as it would be to be with another believer.
It wouldn't be as satisfying because we wouldn't enjoy their coarse language, or their jokes, or their attitude about many different things that are opposite of what the Lord tells us. Nor could we have a really good conversation with them about the Lord and His Word, and there's just nothing better then being able to discuss what His Word teaches with another believer! So although to them we would seem to be their very best friend, in our spirits we would recognize the need for the true fellowship of other believers, knowing that only they can truly be our best friends, as they're the ones we have everything in common with.
I'm not sure what you're asking about being kind and not judgemental. I've never said we should rub someone's nose in their sin(s). That's what Satan does, not the Lord. As with all things we need to look at Jesus as our guide and see how He handled sin in the life of regular people (not the pharisees who were the nations leaders.) We need to think too about how He's dealt with our own sins. Those things will show us how to deal with other people. Let me share a couple of scriptures that I think will help:
“he does not treat us as our sins deserve or repay us according to our iniquities.” (Psalm 103:10)
Also, listen to what Paul tells us about unbelievers and believers and how we're to act toward them: “I have written you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people— not at all meaning the people of this world who are immoral, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world. But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat. What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? God will judge those outside. “Expel the wicked man from among you.”” (1 Corinthians 5:9–13) So, it's not that we're not to be around them, that would be impossible as we're surrounded by unbelievers! And the only way we can truly cause them to want what we have is to do the one main thing the Lord commands us to do: love them the way He does and show them His love! It's kind of like walking on a tight rope for us. We have to stay on guard so that their sins, and their sinful thoughts and attitudes don't rub off on us, while at the same time, being the very best friend they've ever had in their life. (just as Jesus would be to them).
So, let's get personal and talk about your neighbors the transgenders. We know they're sinning, (and so do they, but they won't admit it lol) But then you and I also sin every day. How would we feel if a neighbor came up to us and said, "Cindy, you need to humble yourself and get rid of your pride!" I'd immediately get defensive and want to know just who she thought she was to say such a thing to me, regardless of how she followed it up! But, if she came over and we just talked like normal people do, about weather, the garden, etc. and then slowly got into the Lord, and started to share personal information about our walk with the Lord, THEN she would say the same thing only using different words and I would react entirely differently, and repent of my pride.
Now, admittedly that scene is between two believers, but an unbeliever is going to have an even harsher reaction then I would if confronted immediately with their sin.
The bottom line is that we must be their "friend" in every way Jesus would, and Jesus gave His life for His friends. But at the same time, we must “So, if you think you are standing firm, be careful that you don’t fall!” (1 Corinthians 10:12) Because “Do not be misled: “Bad company corrupts good character.” Come back to your senses as you ought, and stop sinning; for there are some who are ignorant of God—I say this to your shame.” (1 Corinthians 15:33–34) Practically this will mean being extra aware of our thoughts and emotions and taking them captive instantly when needed etc. We must never lose sight of the reason for our friendship which is to tell them the good news that they too can be free from sin and at peace with God. The other thing we must remember is to always listen for the Lord, and remember that our job is to tell them about Him; it is NOT to convert them. That is the job of the Holy Spirit. This actually takes the pressure off of us, because it's not our fault if they don't convert. Our only job is to show them the Lord's love and tell them about our Lord and what He wants to do for them, and to keep doing so, over and over until He says, "Enough!".
If they do choose to submit to the Lord and be saved, then yes, our job is to disciple them. But that's a joyful job because now they are believers and we can have a true friendship with them! Sure, they'll still have some of their old sinful ways, just as we do, but we can rest assured that the Lord will polish their rough edges just as He has polished ours.
Look at the verse we were talking about in context hon: “Many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist. Watch out that you do not lose what you have worked for, but that you may be rewarded fully.” (2 John 7–8) Who is he talking about here? He's speaking about false teachers, so he's saying we shouldn't associate with people who claim to be Christians but who's walk or talk do not line up with what the Bible says. We are never told to judge unbelievers, only others who are believers or who say they are believers.
This verse is speaking about fellow believers: “Brothers, if someone is caught in a sin, you who are spiritual should restore him gently. But watch yourself, or you also may be tempted.” (Galatians 6:1) We always have to look at the context!
Does that make it clearer?
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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2 john
Aug 20, 2019 12:26:17 GMT -5
Post by fearnot on Aug 20, 2019 12:26:17 GMT -5
Yes, that makes it much clearer.
See I was thinking we were to stay set apart from them as much as possible, but then....
doing that ( hardly even talking to them)
and then we sprung the gospel on them one day out of the blue....they might say we were shoving our 'religion' down their throat....
My confusion in part was I 'thought' we were not to actually be 'best' friends...because to do so might mean we would go to bars, parties etc. with them, where all manner of sin was going on, etc etc.
But now I see its a 'bit' different.
Still, say we do become true 'friends'....how do we deal
( especially in the beginning)
when they swear a LOT around us, take God's name in vain, tell coarse jokes etc etc.
Say the first day, we are reaching out to them....do we right off say that language is offensive to us....
or wait and mentioned it some time later when we have shown more of God's love to them?
Or,
do we not mention it at all, until, we are slowly on, are able to talk about things of God
and prayerfully
give them the gospel one day....
and THEN
if.... they are finally, a baby believer,
begin to point out( at that time), about their language, jokes, etc.?
If we are too wait, what do we do about how those words affects us...I know we can pray and tell God how much it hurts us to hear His name used in such a way....
is that basically it?
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2 john
Aug 21, 2019 10:47:18 GMT -5
Post by Cindy on Aug 21, 2019 10:47:18 GMT -5
I'm going to reply inside your post as that will be easier....Yes, that makes it much clearer.
See I was thinking we were to stay set apart from them as much as possible, but then....
doing that ( hardly even talking to them)
and then we sprung the gospel on them one day out of the blue....they might say we were shoving our 'religion' down their throat....
My confusion in part was I 'thought' we were not to actually be 'best' friends...because to do so might mean we would go to bars, parties etc. with them, where all manner of sin was going on, etc etc.
We will be "best friends" to them as far as they can tell, but we would never go to bars or parties, etc with them, because we are Jesus to them. We wouldn't tell them that they shouldn't go, but we wouldn't go with them.
But now I see its a 'bit' different.
Still, say we do become true 'friends'....how do we deal
( especially in the beginning)
when they swear a LOT around us, take God's name in vain, tell coarse jokes etc etc.
Say the first day, we are reaching out to them....do we right off say that language is offensive to us....
or wait and mentioned it some time later when we have shown more of God's love to them?
Or,
do we not mention it at all, until, we are slowly on, are able to talk about things of God
and prayerfully
give them the gospel one day....
and THEN
 Barbara, I've never had to say a single word about swearing to others. No matter where I go, even when I've never met the person before, when someone swears in front of me they invariably apologize right away! As long as we act like a lady, other people will treat us as a lady. When I was dating Bruce, he used to take me to the VFW because he liked to play pool there with his friends. (It's just like a bar.) I went, but neither Bruce or I drank, but we did have fun playing pool. Yet the men and women there, who I had never met, instantly stopped swearing when I walked into the room. The few who had their backs turned and didn't see me, did continue to swear, and they got a punch in the arm by a "buddy" so they'd pay attention. Then when they saw me, they apologized profusely. And that's in a bar! And I never said a thing about it to anyone.
At home, when our neighbors come to visit, who aren't saved, it's the same thing. They do their level best not to swear in front of me, and if they do they apologize, even though I've never said a thing about it to anyone.
if.... they are finally, a baby believer,
begin to point out( at that time), about their language, jokes, etc.?
If we are too wait, what do we do about how those words affects us...I know we can pray and tell God how much it hurts us to hear His name used in such a way....
is that basically it?
However, once in a while you'll meet someone who's totally dense and can't see the forest for the trees  That kind of person will continue to swear in front of you. So when someone like that comes around, I simply say something like, "I know the Name of Jesus doesn't mean anything to you, but it's very important to me and I'd really appreciate it if you would stop using it that way." Or something along those lines anyway. Like I said, most of the time you won't have to say anything, but once in a while, you get a person who's so dull witted they they need a little help.
As far as telling coarse jokes or using other foul language goes, the same thing holds true. No one ever does that around me ... ever; and I haven't ever said anything to stop them either. As long as we act like ladies, we'll be treated as a lady. However, if there is someone in your life right now that does those things, that means one of two things: they either know it's a sin and that you hate it and are doing it to be mean (but want you to think they don't know what they're doing - it's a game to them.); or they're so completely stupid (which is hard to believe) that they really don't have a clue that their words offend anyone.
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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2 john
Aug 21, 2019 11:16:15 GMT -5
Post by fearnot on Aug 21, 2019 11:16:15 GMT -5
Thank you, that helps a lot.
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2 john
Aug 23, 2019 11:09:38 GMT -5
Post by Cindy on Aug 23, 2019 11:09:38 GMT -5
Thank you, that helps a lot. |
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Barbara, I've never had to say a single word about swearing to others. No matter where I go, even when I've never met the person before, when someone swears in front of me they invariably apologize right away! As long as we act like a lady, other people will treat us as a lady. When I was dating Bruce, he used to take me to the VFW because he liked to play pool there with his friends. (It's just like a bar.) I went, but neither Bruce or I drank, but we did have fun playing pool. Yet the men and women there, who I had never met, instantly stopped swearing when I walked into the room. The few who had their backs turned and didn't see me, did continue to swear, and they got a punch in the arm by a "buddy" so they'd pay attention. Then when they saw me, they apologized profusely. And that's in a bar! And I never said a thing about it to anyone. 
That kind of person will continue to swear in front of you. So when someone like that comes around, I simply say something like, "I know the Name of Jesus doesn't mean anything to you, but it's very important to me and I'd really appreciate it if you would stop using it that way." Or something along those lines anyway. Like I said, most of the time you won't have to say anything, but once in a while, you get a person who's so dull witted they they need a little help.
