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Post by Cindy on Nov 14, 2016 9:51:30 GMT -5
We'll start this thread with my testimony of when I was saved:
Having just read what sinners are like in Romans 1:18-32, I'd like to share something with you that I finally figured out about myself. I've often wondered just when I was saved, as I think you're aware of. I finally decided that I'd just go with when I was in my late 30's since that's when my life changed. Now however, after much study and prayer, and speaking with a godly pastor (the one who wrote The Life of Christ study that we did on the Gospels for so long) I realize that I was actually saved as a young child! I have no idea how I knew about God then, as my parents were atheists and never spoke about Him, but I did. I not only knew about God, I knew Jesus and I loved Him with all my heart. I used to think of Him as my "secret friend". But I didn't really start to learn about Him till I was about 11 and a neighbor began taking me to church with their kids who were my friends. I loved it, and fell even deeper in love with the Lord. I was 12 before my mom would even consider getting me a bible, and then she only got me a children's bible. I devoured that very quickly and begged for a "real" one, and she finally gave in. I devoured that one too, from Genesis to Revelation and knew it very well. I studied it all the time, just like I do now. The only problem was that I didn't have anyone to talk to about it or explain anything to me except for God and I didn't know that He would back then.
I understood a great deal of what the bible said, but I got one major thing wrong. I thought that when we were saved, all our sins were forgiven up to that point, and that we were responsible for them after that. That isn't totally off base, because we are responsible to confess them and turn from then once we're saved, but I didn't know that we could still be forgiven them. So after trying through my teenage years to "be good" and obey God" and failing miserably, I thought I was going to go to Hell. I was devastated and could hardly stand the thought of not being with my Jesus. At the same time though, I knew that was what I deserved, and I wasn't angry about it, just sad. I was also confused about my mother who didn't believe in God, much less in obeying Him. She never stopped me from going to church, but in order to keep me from being polluted by church, (in her mind) she tried to get me interested in other things like Ouija boards, tarot cards and eastern or Gnostic religions and the occult. She told me stories about her mother who had been very involved with the occult, and did all she could to turn me, without me knowing that was what she was doing. The problem for me was that I knew beyond doubt that my mother loved me and would never, ever purposely do anything to harm me. I knew she wanted what was best for me. But her ways were the opposite of God's ways, so besides believing I'd go to hell at that time, I also became confused because I couldn't understand how my mother and so many others could be so wrong about everything. Weren't they supposed to be teaching me and guiding me? After all, they were my elders and had a lot more experience than I did. Finally, as a young adult, I just gave up. I knew I couldn't possibly be good enough for God or live according to His laws, so what was the point in constantly beating myself up about it? Little by little, I stopped reading my bible, although I did continue to go to church every Sunday, partly because I loved it and partly because I wanted my kids to go to heaven. I stopped praying every day too and soon the only prayers I said were when I was in big trouble and needed help. I got further into the occult and the new age stuff and so I lived most of my adult life as it continued to spiral down hill.
Finally, by the time I was in my late 30's, my life was a total wreck. I desperately needed help and I wanted answers. I knew enough to know that the only real truth could be found in the Bible, so that was where I turned, to the Bible and prayer. I pleaded with the Lord to help me, to show me what to do, and to show me why I couldn't be good enough for Him. I kept thinking about Peter and the other disciples and how they changed so much and lived victoriously after Jesus was resurrected. I felt like there had to be something I was missing because if they could change like that, then I should be able to as well-and yet I couldn't. What was the reason? What changed them? I immersed myself in my bible, and I started reading other Christian books as well including "Satan is alive and well on planet earth" by Hal Lindsey. While reading that book, Hal explained the gospel in it, and the light went on, and I understood!!!! He explained that ALL my sins were paid for on the cross, past, present and future!!!! My soul rejoiced and I cried and prayed and cried some more as I realized that I was saved!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That He loved me too! That I didn't have to be "good enough" for Him!!!! That He took me as I was!!!! Oh the glory of that moment!!! Time stood still and when it started again my whole world and my whole life was changed. Instantly.
Ever since that moment, my life has been filled with joy. Oh yes, there have been many times that I had problems and that I had to deal with grief and heartache, as well as all the normal day to day problems everyone has, as well as chronic pain. It wasn't an easy road to get my life turned around and put onto the right track, and I don't mean to imply that it was. Beneath it all however was a joy that has never left me. Joy that one day I will see my Savior face to face and that I will get to spend Eternity with Him! That joy is my strength even now and I know it always will be no matter what comes. People may fail me, loved ones may hurt me, problems will come, but Jesus will never leave me and that joy is there, deep in my soul.
For many years now I've assumed that that moment was when I was really saved, but I don't believe that anymore. I understand now that I was actually saved when I was a child, but Satan did to me what he does to so many of us. He made me doubt my salvation by causing me to think that being saved was contingent on something I had to do. In other words, I thought it was my works, my being good that saved me, not God's love and mercy. That's one of the hallmarks of Satan. He knows all about pride and how we tend to think that everything revolves around us somehow. He knows we all want to think we're very important. He knows that we've all been hurt by loved ones and therefore we don't trust others completely, and it's easy for him to get us to transfer that lack of trust, that doubt, that worry and fear, to God as well.
As a child, I was unable to understand that after we are saved by God, our works come naturally because of our salvation. The works themselves don't save us, they don't make God love us more, or desire us more. When we fail in something and sin, like I did so often (like we all do) it doesn't cause God to stop loving us, or wanting us, and it doesn't cause Him to throw us out of Heaven, or make our salvation null and void. If it did, NO ONE would be saved!!!!! But that didn't occur to me then. As I got older, after I'd given up on my own salvation, I began to realize that no one lived the way God said to, so to me they were all a bunch of hypocrites. In all my life, going to church every Sunday, I only met a few people who actually lived their faith and were different then other people. God made sure that the memory of them stuck in my mind too. But at the time, I simply told myself that they were just faking it, and couldn't be real. Now I know though that they really were saved, and God brought them into my life to show me that He could give us the power to live the way He wants us to. Oh, we'll still sin, but we can confess our sins and be forgiven and start over every day.
When we doubt our salvation, that causes us to not live for Him, and to constantly slide back into our old ways. It will cause us to stop reading our bibles and stop praying too. Oh we might read it once in a while, and might pray when things are so bad that it would take a miracle to help us, but we give up our relationship with the Lord. The relationship is still there, because God is still with us, holding us, even as we squirm to get away and refuse to recognize Him like a petulant child. We're just like a child that refuses to talk to their parents or do anything other than sit and pout in our room.
When we doubt our salvation, Satan makes it so that we're totally useless to God and makes sure that we waste our time here, since we can't live for Him and doubt Him at the same time. So all those adult years of my life were wasted because I lived for myself and glorified myself during those years and not Him. At least until I finally turned to Him with ALL my heart and begged to know Him, not just for Him to fix my life. When I say those years were wasted, I mean they were wasted as far as me using them to glorify God. However, God did not waste those years of my life. Instead, He used them to bring good out of them and bring glory to His Name. He did that by never leaving me and knowing the exact time I'd be ready to hear Him again, and learn the full Truth that would set me free. He used those years to form me into the person I am today. Today I know that I'm saved, clean, and will spend eternity with my Lord and that no one, not even me, can ever take me out of His Hands!
Satan made me fall once, but he didn't win the next battle. Because within about 3 years after I realized I was saved, and my relationship with the Lord had grown and prospered, I was in an accident that caused me to be completely disabled. Satan wanted me out of the picture. He most definitely did not want me to live for the Lord! This time though, I turned to my God and He helped me continue to live for Him even through the physical pain and the emotional turmoil the disability caused me. By then I knew what I had to do, and nothing would make me put down my bible, or stop praying, or stop worshiping Him. In fact, being disabled just gave me even more time for all those things which were more important to me than anything else anyway. By looking back on my life though, I can see how Satan worked and I know he does that to everyone. If he can't stop someone from being saved, then he tries his best to see that they don't live for the Lord and that their witness is worthless to Him because instead of being victors, they're victims. Every moment Satan can get us to doubt our salvation is a moment that's lost for living for God. Satan knows that the best way that a person can know they are saved for sure is by studying God's Word and praying to him. As John tells us: “I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life.” (1 John 5:13)
That scripture, 1 John 5:13, as well as others, makes it very clear that we can be sure that we are saved, and that God wants us to be very sure of it. He doesn't want us "guessing". In fact, He says that if we doubt our salvation, that we are calling Him a liar! “Anyone who believes in the Son of God has this testimony in his heart. Anyone who does not believe God has made him out to be a liar, because he has not believed the testimony God has given about his Son.” (1 John 5:10) We are told over and over again that we are not to be double minded - thinking one thing sometimes, and something else another time. So it's important for us to be sure we are saved, and then to stand firm on that Truth regardless of what Satan tries to tell us. Let me post those verses in context:
“Anyone who believes in the Son of God has this testimony in his heart. Anyone who does not believe God has made him out to be a liar, because he has not believed the testimony God has given about his Son. And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life.” (1 John 5:10–13)
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fearnot
Living With Pain
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Post by fearnot on Nov 14, 2016 10:49:49 GMT -5
Thank you for re-posting your story....I remember some of it but not all.
It was very helpful.
There are some similarities but of course differences.
One thing that amazed me was you consciously thought your elders had more experience and knowledge and thus should guide you.
I don't think I ever thought that....I am not sure but perhaps because I didn't have a continuing set of parents for 6 years, I did not think like that....I maybe felt, acted, and thought on my own, and you know what pitfalls that brings!!
Nevertheless, I still did absorb my mom's thought of when you die that is it....
But at the same time, since she and dad had me go to Sunday school at least for one year, I also, picked up on Hell ( not so much Jesus and/or Heaven etc.
yet enough to long for it and at age 12 spent a whole night with some Christians, who were trying to get me saved, and I sooooooooooooo wanted to believe.
I finally said I was out of exhaustion, and a part of me really believed I did believe, while at the same time, doubt remained.
For a year, I tried to live as a Christian.....
until I decided I wanted to be liked by my peers
I had always been picked on, laughed at, mocked, called all manner of names ( ugly, 4 eyes, queer, etc etc.)
Being a 'Christian' did not stop the 'bullying' so I slowly drifted away ( having no one at all to lift me up in the faith and being way weak).
so like I said, some kind of sort of similarities with differences.
But I should prob finish this on the new thread because one key is.... works vs repentance for my doubting.
I mostly do not doubt, but then I do get moments of despair....I know I am forgiven if I sin...and it is not works that saved me or continue to save me....
but it seems like if we turn away from a sin or sins, at some point they will be gone.
Maybe other sins we didn't even think about or even know about will be revealed and then we must repent of those....and then they are gone.
Perhaps they might return once or twice in our lifetime ...
maybe a few more times in our life time....but is there not a time when we must consider we have not really repented?
I know hating the sin is a good sign....but could it be like a psych once told me ( we were not talking sin, but some type of behavior)
he said something like feeling 'guilty' ( I would say sorrow and hatred for sins) was:
just an excuse to do it again.
In other word, feeling bad alleviated the inner knowledge it was wrong and I could pat myself on my back that I did penance and was thus free to do it again.
I honestly do not think that is my motive....but I still wonder, if there is a point, to wonder about repeated sin, even if I hate it?
And that has been a big push for doubt...but what you posted has been a big help.
I know you said in the past, that it could happen that I person was truly saved, and then walked away, and did not try to live for the Lord, but live in the world.....
So that it is God, not us...
but then, where does the issue of repentance play into it?
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Post by Cindy on Nov 15, 2016 12:47:19 GMT -5
Thank you for re-posting your story....I remember some of it but not all.
It was very helpful.
There are some similarities but of course differences.
One thing that amazed me was you consciously thought your elders had more experience and knowledge and thus should guide you.
I don't think I ever thought that....I am not sure but perhaps because I didn't have a continuing set of parents for 6 years, I did not think like that....I maybe felt, acted, and thought on my own, and you know what pitfalls that brings!!
Nevertheless, I still did absorb my mom's thought of when you die that is it....
But at the same time, since she and dad had me go to Sunday school at least for one year, I also, picked up on Hell ( not so much Jesus and/or Heaven etc.
yet enough to long for it and at age 12 spent a whole night with some Christians, who were trying to get me saved, and I sooooooooooooo wanted to believe.
I finally said I was out of exhaustion, and a part of me really believed I did believe, while at the same time, doubt remained.
For a year, I tried to live as a Christian.....
until I decided I wanted to be liked by my peers
I had always been picked on, laughed at, mocked, called all manner of names ( ugly, 4 eyes, queer, etc etc.)
Being a 'Christian' did not stop the 'bullying' so I slowly drifted away ( having no one at all to lift me up in the faith and being way weak).
so like I said, some kind of sort of similarities with differences.
But I should prob finish this on the new thread because one key is.... works vs repentance for my doubting.
I mostly do not doubt, but then I do get moments of despair....I know I am forgiven if I sin...and it is not works that saved me or continue to save me....
but it seems like if we turn away from a sin or sins, at some point they will be gone.
Maybe other sins we didn't even think about or even know about will be revealed and then we must repent of those....and then they are gone.
Perhaps they might return once or twice in our lifetime ...
maybe a few more times in our life time....but is there not a time when we must consider we have not really repented?
I know hating the sin is a good sign....but could it be like a psych once told me ( we were not talking sin, but some type of behavior)
he said something like feeling 'guilty' ( I would say sorrow and hatred for sins) was:
just an excuse to do it again.
In other word, feeling bad alleviated the inner knowledge it was wrong and I could pat myself on my back that I did penance and was thus free to do it again.
I honestly do not think that is my motive....but I still wonder, if there is a point, to wonder about repeated sin, even if I hate it?
And that has been a big push for doubt...but what you posted has been a big help.
I know you said in the past, that it could happen that I person was truly saved, and then walked away, and did not try to live for the Lord, but live in the world.....
So that it is God, not us...
but then, where does the issue of repentance play into it?
I think the easiest way to answer you is to tell you what a good godly pastor once told me. He asked me if an alcoholic asked God to forgive them, really and truly repenting of their sin, if God would do so. I said, "of course He would!". He then asked, "if after receiving forgiveness, the next day the alcoholic again got drunk, and again repented and begged God's forgiveness, would God forgive him?" Again I said, "of course He would!" The pastor continued to ask the same question saying that the alcoholic continued to drink, sometimes going one day without it, sometimes a month and sometimes a year, but always going back to his sin, and always repenting and asking for forgiveness. Would God continue to forgive him even though he continued to fall back into his sin? My answer always had to be the same. If the alcoholic was sincere, and truly wanted God to forgive him, and truly did not want to sin, then it didn't matter how often he fell back into it because God would constantly forgive him over and over again, until the day God took him home to Heaven.
What we have to remember is, like you said, our salvation has nothing to do with how we behave. God saved us while we were still his enemies and while we still actually hated Him! He's not going to "unsave" us simply because we can't live up to His standards. After all, He knows we can't live up to them. That's what the Law was all about: to teach us that we cannot possibly be good enough for God. (and that's what the book of Romans teaches us) It was that kind of thinking that led to me not living most of my adult life for God, and thinking that I was going to Hell. When we think like that, we are believing Satan's lies and not God's Truth.
You have often said over the years that you love God. Don't you realize that you absolutely can NOT love God unless you are saved? You also can not want to do good for God unless you are first saved. “We love because he first loved us.” (1 John 4:19) Notice that we're told that we rely on God's love for us, not that we rely on how we behave: “And so we know and rely on the love God has for us. God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in him.” (1 John 4:16) Our behavior comes along because we are saved and God is changing us. And that doesn't happen unless or until we are in His Word, for it's through His Word that the Spirit changes us to make us more like Jesus. Look at all the years I wasted... I was saved, but I most certainly was not becoming more and more like Christ! Instead, I was becoming more and more bitter, angry, depressed, and more like the world. Why? Because I wasn't in His Word every day like I had been as a child and teenager, nor was I applying His Word to my life. I wasn't in His Word, I wasn't relying on Him - instead I relied on myself and other people, and I didn't pray all that much either. Nor was I even trying to live for Him, I was living only for myself, but I was still saved. If I had died before the day I discovered that all my sins were paid for and began to live for Him, I would have gone to Heaven, but I would not have received any rewards or pleased my Lord. I would have been one who was like what Paul describes here: “If it is burned up, he will suffer loss; he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames.” (1 Corinthians 3:15)
Now, because I began to live for Christ, because I've stayed in His Word daily and applied it to my life, and try to rely on Him instead of myself, and persevere no matter how bad things get, I know that when I die, I will not only go to heaven, but that I will receive rewards and a rich welcome and hear my Lord tell me to enjoy what He has prepared for me since the creation of the world. (Matthew 25:34 and 2 Peter 1:11)
A person who is not saved cannot repent. They can be "sorry" for something they did, or sorry they got caught, or sorry about the consequences they will pay for what they did, but they cannot repent of their sins because they don't know God, and don't care about pleasing Him. An unsaved person, like that psychologist can't even truly define repentance, because they don't know or understand what it really is. Even if you explain it to them, they won't understand it, because these things are only understood by those who have the Spirit living within them. So you see, the fact that you know what repentance is, also shows that you are saved. The fact that you want to please God even though you constantly mess up, proves you are saved. You cannot long for Heaven unless you are saved, nor can you want to be cleansed of all sin unless you are saved. So each and every one of those things, again, proves that you are saved. You are not perfect...far from it, just as I'm far from perfect. But we are saved.
I could go back and act like I did during my early adult years and live for myself and I would still be saved, but would not please the Lord and would lose my rewards. So could you. But, I don't want to do that. I want to please Him, more than I want to please myself. I feel that way not because I'm more saved then I was before, or because I'm more saved than others who live for themselves, but simply because I've been in His Word daily for years now, and God has changed me so that now I don't want to live for myself. So it's all because of God, not because of anything I've done, other than simply being in His Word so He can change me and applying it to my life. Even so however, as I said, it doesn't make me more saved, it just means that I'll receive rewards and will have pleased the Lord at least a little. I won't be a total disappointment to Him, although probably close to it.
What you said about thinking that if we turn away from a sin or sins, that at some point they'd be gone from our lives, except maybe to return once or twice, but not constantly..... I hope that what I said about the alcoholic spoke to that, but if it didn't, perhaps knowing that Paul himself as well as the other disciples, had to deal with that very same thing will help you. That's what Romans 7 is all about. The Lord knows we will have problems with repeated sins. They're called besetting sins, or "the sins that so easily entangle us", in His Word. “Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses, let us throw off everything that hinders and the sin that so easily entangles, and let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us.” (Hebrews 12:1) That's what this chapter is all about. So let's see what it says next: “Let us fix our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy set before him endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God. Consider him who endured such opposition from sinful men, so that you will not grow weary and lose heart. In your struggle against sin, you have not yet resisted to the point of shedding your blood. And you have forgotten that word of encouragement that addresses you as sons: “My son, do not make light of the Lord’s discipline, and do not lose heart when he rebukes you,” (Hebrews 12:2–5) In other words, we're being told that even though we are struggling against repeated sins, we need to keep our focus on Jesus, realizing that the day will in fact come when He will "perfect our faith" and make us totally free from all sin, both in spirit and in our body. That will happen on the day our salvation is completed, at the rapture: “being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.” (Philippians 1:6) We're told not to grow weary or lose heart because God will finish what He started in us. We must be patient and persevere until that day, and we can look forward to that day with hope and joy, knowing that it really will happen. We're told constantly to persevere and not give up, to stay alert, to keep trying, etc. That's why we're told that, because we will have to fight sin the rest of our lives here. They aren't going to just "go away". It will take self discipline and self control on our part, both of which God gives us as fruit of His Spirit. That self control and self discipline will both increase as we continue to grow in our faith and as we continue to be changed by God when we are in His Word daily. It's amazing how very important being in His Word daily is! Without it......I hate to even think of it!
So you see, the fact that you have sin in your life is yet another thing that proves that you are saved, not the other way around! If you weren't saved, you wouldn't see it as sin! You wouldn't care! Instead, you'd just enjoy it.
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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Post by fearnot on Nov 16, 2016 2:14:44 GMT -5
That was truly beautiful and the absolute most helpful ever.....it brought tears to my eyes. Thank you Cindy
You said so many helpful things like:
"He's not going to "unsave" us simply because we can't live up to His standards. After all, He knows we can't live up to them. That's what the Law was all about: to teach us that we cannot possibly be good enough for God.
You also can not want to do good for God unless you are first saved
You cannot long for Heaven unless you are saved, nor can you want to be cleansed of all sin unless you are saved.
I could go back and act like I did during my early adult years and live for myself and I would still be saved, but would not please the Lord and would lose my rewards. So could you. But, I don't want to do that. I want to please Him, more than I want to please myself. I feel that way not because I'm more saved then I was before, or because I'm more saved than others who live for themselves
and so on.....
I most certainly would not want to go back and actually live like I did as a teen/early adult
and thinking about longing for Heaven, I have always thought that if people really understood that heaven wouldn't be boring just sitting on a cloud playing a harp, they would also wish to go ( who wouldn't want to be loved forever, to be with the Lord who created the beauty of Creation, etc etc.)
But maybe not....maybe some who I thought were just trying to be unique, individualistic, etc. by saying they wanted to go to Hell and party....maybe really mean that???
I can understand some people do not understand how much Jesus loves them and feel despair because they have done some serious terrible things and they mistakenly think He cannot forgive them ( maybe they actually killed someone or something like that).
But that's different then thinking... yeah sex, drugs, rock and roll, party party in Hell, because they don't want all that lovely dovey stuff.
I think the dread that sometimes comes upon me, is the enemy attacking and I need to realize it and take those thoughts captive and you have given me great help and aid to do so.
Plus, I also am beginning to really see, that its not about me, but about the Lord. For sure I hate to sin and hate the sins, and truly wish to repent ( and make progress)....
but I am not going to be perfect in this life....
I like that you said not to grow weary or lose heart ( that is exactly what happens).
You are so good at seeing the real problem and offer real hope from God's Word. Thanks you....you are a true blessing!!!
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Post by Cindy on Nov 16, 2016 11:26:01 GMT -5
That was truly beautiful and the absolute most helpful ever.....it brought tears to my eyes. Thank you Cindy
You said so many helpful things like:
"He's not going to "unsave" us simply because we can't live up to His standards. After all, He knows we can't live up to them. That's what the Law was all about: to teach us that we cannot possibly be good enough for God.
You also can not want to do good for God unless you are first saved
You cannot long for Heaven unless you are saved, nor can you want to be cleansed of all sin unless you are saved.
I could go back and act like I did during my early adult years and live for myself and I would still be saved, but would not please the Lord and would lose my rewards. So could you. But, I don't want to do that. I want to please Him, more than I want to please myself. I feel that way not because I'm more saved then I was before, or because I'm more saved than others who live for themselves
and so on.....
I most certainly would not want to go back and actually live like I did as a teen/early adult
and thinking about longing for Heaven, I have always thought that if people really understood that heaven wouldn't be boring just sitting on a cloud playing a harp, they would also wish to go ( who wouldn't want to be loved forever, to be with the Lord who created the beauty of Creation, etc etc.)
But maybe not....maybe some who I thought were just trying to be unique, individualistic, etc. by saying they wanted to go to Hell and party....maybe really mean that???
I can understand some people do not understand how much Jesus loves them and feel despair because they have done some serious terrible things and they mistakenly think He cannot forgive them ( maybe they actually killed someone or something like that).
But that's different then thinking... yeah sex, drugs, rock and roll, party party in Hell, because they don't want all that lovely dovey stuff.
I think the dread that sometimes comes upon me, is the enemy attacking and I need to realize it and take those thoughts captive and you have given me great help and aid to do so.
Plus, I also am beginning to really see, that its not about me, but about the Lord. For sure I hate to sin and hate the sins, and truly wish to repent ( and make progress)....
but I am not going to be perfect in this life....
I like that you said not to grow weary or lose heart ( that is exactly what happens).
You are so good at seeing the real problem and offer real hope from God's Word. Thanks you....you are a true blessing!!!
“Without weakening in his faith, he faced the fact that his body was as good as dead—since he was about a hundred years old—and that Sarah’s womb was also dead. Yet he did not waver through unbelief regarding the promise of God, but was strengthened in his faith and gave glory to God, being fully persuaded that God had power to do what he had promised.” (Romans 4:19–21)
Professing to believe what God has said is much easier than really trusting Him. For instance, many people who affirm that “God shall supply all your need according to His riches” (Phil. 4:19) become filled with anxiety when financial troubles come their way. The Bible also says that if we give sacrificially with the proper motives, God will reward us (Matt. 6:3–4). Many say they believe that principle as well, but they find it difficult to put into practice. Many Christians also fear death, even though God has said He will provide us with the grace we need to face it and will take us to heaven. Believing God means we acknowledge His glory, which is the sum of all His attributes and the fullness of all His majesty. If He is who He says He is, then He is to be believed. You will grow spiritually when you say to God, “If Your Word says it, I will believe it; if Your Word promises it, I will claim it; and if Your Word commands it, I will obey it.” Truth for today
“Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace in which we now stand. And we rejoice in the hope of the glory of God.” (Romans 5:1–2)
Peace here is much more than the absence of conflict; it's an objective reality that brings harmony to life when the relationship between God & His creation is restored through faith in Christ, which dissolves all enmity, resulting is peace. In both OT & NT, peace is described as the result of having a right relationship to God & others. Spiritual peace describes a sense of well-being & fulfillment that comes from God & is dependent on His presence alone. Inner spiritual peace is experienced by any believer who walks in the Spirit despite surrounding turmoil. The true peace of God protects the hearts and minds of believers from worry, fear, and anxiety. It transcends all logic or rationale. The God of Peace who offers salvation also promises His presence & power in the lives of His children. His presence creates in us a quiet confidence, regardless of circumstances, people, or things. Though impossible to comprehend fully, true peace is a fruit of the Holy Spirit (Gal. 5:22) and a part of the “whole armor of God” (Eph. 6:11, 13). Our understanding & experiencing of the gospel produces peace that allows us to walk boldly into spiritual battle & to survive all manner of difficulty & danger. The believer receives peace from God as a virtue of holy living & a protection from evil forces. Where the peace of God is present, there is no room for worry. The Woman’s Study Bible.
So once again we see what we miss when we refuse to believe the Lord and know we are saved. We wind up missing one of His greatest gifts to us: His peace! When I look back on all those years when I doubted, I can honestly say that they were filled with worry, fear, and anxiety, almost constantly. Once again we also see how we receive this peace and how it grows within us: We receive it at our salvation, but it's one of the many gifts that most Christians don't realize they have, and therefore they're always worried and asking God to give them His peace, not realizing that He already has! He can't give it to them again or give them more of it, because they already have it. They just don't realize it. Therefore they go away thinking that God hasn't answered their prayer and perhaps doesn't love them. Remember the story I told you about how I tend to give my children and grandchildren gifts inside other gifts? How I'd gotten one of my granddaughters a pocket book to decorate herself and a matching diary to decorate and had put all kinds of things to use to decorate them with inside the pocket book? She wasn't used to people doing that and didn't know to look inside her gifts and didn't. My other granddaughter, Alissa, did know and she kept telling her to open it and look inside. When she finally did, she discovered the other gifts I'd gotten her. That's how we are with the gifts God gives us at salvation. We accept that we will go to heaven and don't realize that He's given us all kinds of other gifts too, and therefore don't use them since we don't know we have them.
I know I had that gift even as a child. I can remember being at peace when everything around me was falling apart. It wasn't until as an adult that I turned away from God and doubted my salvation, that I lost His peace, and then did without it for most of my adult life. Not until I finally turned back to God - who had never left me, I'd simply ignored Him - did I again discover His peace. His peace grew within me the more I studied His word and understood what He'd done for me and what He'd given me. So once again we see that God changes us through His Word and grows our new nature through His Word, making it stronger and stronger the more we spend time with Him in it. Then, as an adult, experiencing His peace, when I studied His Word with Him, He showed me through His Word how it worked and how He was changing me, so that I could understand His peace. That's what He does for all His children. Therefore as I experienced His peace, I grew to understand it and my Lord even more, which produced even more peace! That understanding led me to yet more gifts He gives us when He saves us and the process continues.
“Not only so, but we also rejoice in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; perseverance, character; and character, hope. And hope does not disappoint us, because God has poured out his love into our hearts by the Holy Spirit, whom he has given us. You see, at just the right time, when we were still powerless, Christ died for the ungodly. Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous man, though for a good man someone might possibly dare to die. But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.” (Romans 5:3–8)
Before we were saved, God proved His love by sending Christ to die for us, and Jesus proved it by His life and by being willing to become sin for us and die for us so we could be with Him forever. I find that I often forget that God made Jesus sin for us, that Jesus bore every sin ever committed from Adam until the last human being, and how that must have been for Him. Jesus, the pure, holy, perfect, Son of God, who did not have even the smallest tiny bit of sin in Him or on Him, became covered with all that sin when He was on the cross! We can't even begin to know or understand just how terrible and horrifying it must have been! And He knew that was going to happen, and that when it did, that He would for the first time in all eternity be separated from the Father, because the Father cannot be touched by sin. But He agreed and did it anyway, for us, because it was the only way to save us. It's not pleasant to think about, but it's what I think about especially when I read about the crucifixion. It's something I try to remember each day as I confess my sins, to remind myself of all that Jesus went through for me. By remembering that, it helps me to really hate sin and want nothing to do with it. But it reminds me of something else too: It reminds me that all of my sins are covered by His blood. Even the sins I'm unaware of right now, and the sins I so much want to be done with, but somehow always seem to wind up doing again anyway. It reminds me that everything I've ever thought, said or done or ever will think, say or do has already been paid for by my Savior. It shows me that Jesus came to save me from myself because I couldn't do it no matter how hard I tried, and no one else could either. It stands to reason then that if He came to save me from myself, that nothing I can ever think, say or do, can cause me to be "unsaved", because that would make Him out to be impotent and a liar, and He is far from that!
Now that we are saved though, and are His children, God shows us His love even more. Our inner experience of His love through the Spirit sustains us as we go through trials. He gives us faith, peace, hope, and love, among other gifts. Faith, peace (Romans 5:1), hope (Romans 5:2), and love (Romans 5:5) all combine to enable us to persevere through the trials of life. Perseverance makes it possible for us to grow in our faith, grow in character, and become a mature child of God (James 1:1–4).
This reminds me of: 1 Cor 13:13, Col 1:5, and 1 Thes 1:3 and 1 Thes 5:8. “...faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.” (1 Cor 13:13) “the faith and love that spring from the hope that is stored up for you in heaven ...” (Col 1:5) “... your work produced by faith, your labor prompted by love, and your endurance inspired by hope in our Lord Jesus Christ.” (1 Thes 1:3) “...putting on faith and love as a breastplate, and the hope of salvation as a helmet.” (1 Thes 5:8)
His grace is sufficient to meet and remove every hint of sin’s stain in us. That won't happen until we die and/or the rapture happens, which is when our salvation will be completed. Our life here and now is meant to get us ready for that day. The more I reflect on this, the more it seems to me that God has us use this life to be ready for when He does complete our salvation, not to force us to wait or to punish us in any way, but because otherwise it would be such an immense change when it happened, that we might not be able to handle it otherwise. By giving us time in this life to practice and as Paul says, work out our salvation, meaning to work hard at living a holy life, trying to be more and more like Jesus, when that incredible, awesome day finally comes, while it will still be an immense change, we'll be better able to deal with it. Know what I mean? He then gives us the years of the tribulation to get used to New Jerusalem and of not having any sin at all in us, to get used to our new life, and finally gives us the 1000 years of the Millennium to practice and really get used to our new lives of instant obedience and having no sin, and seeing the difference between us and those who will live in the Millennial Kingdom in their earthly bodies with a sin nature. Of course it also gives the Millennial believers time to see the difference too and to work toward that themselves for when their sin nature is totally removed. Then, finally, we'll all begin eternity together without any hint of sin in ourselves or the new heavens or earth! (but this is just what I think when I reflect on it all, it's not what the Bible says so please don't think that I'm saying that)
Once Satan has a person convinced of the lie that something or someone, including themselves, other than Jesus is the foundation of life, they're open prey for the crippling pain of misbelief. (when we think we can lose our salvation, we are believing that we are stronger than God and that we are in control of our lives, not Him; therefore we are believing a lie.) Our lives hold meaning because God loves us & because we are His. Self-talk that degrades others degrades ourselves. We cannot undermine other people’s importance and overestimate our own importance without trouble. The opposite is also true: Self talk that degrades ourselves also degrades others and also dishonors God. It dishonors God because we're not telling the Truth, and we are made in His image. We can't undermine our importance any more that we can others.
The Cross is the basis for dealing with guilt. The teen who cheats on a test, the adult who cheats on income tax—all experience certain degrees of guilt. For believers, that guilt is the work of the Holy Spirit who seeks to convict us. He does not condemn us. His conviction is to bring us back into fellowship with the Savior. That happens when we admit our wrongs, confess our sins to God, and receive His forgiveness. Will we still endure the consequences? Yes. The teen may be suspended; the adult may pay a fine or spend time in jail. Forgiveness of your sins restores your relationship with God & releases guilt’s grip on your emotions. Your guilt has been atoned for by Christ, for which you can be eternally grateful. Enter His gates
Many unbelievers ridicule Christianity because they think we all walk around all the time feeling guilty about our sins, and this too is another of Satan's lies. Another of the gifts God gives us when we're saved is freedom from that guilt and shame. When we're saved, it's literally like being born again. Our lives are brand new.... a pure clean page to be written on. Sadly, this is yet another gift that many Christians don't realize they have and so they don't use it. Jesus does not want us feeling shame or guilt. The Holy Spirit and our conscience does cause those feelings when we sin, but they are there to cause us to confess our sin to the Lord and repent of it. As soon as we do that, those feelings have to go, because we are once again pure and clean, our sin is totally wiped out as though it had never been because it too was covered in the blood of Christ on the cross. Instead, we should feel joy for what Jesus did for us, because He has cleansed us completely and totally once again, and once again that page is pure and clean to write on. The blot our sin put on it, has been taken away as though it never existed. The Lord says that he gives us "a crown of beauty instead of ashes, the oil of gladness instead of mourning, and a garment of praise instead of a spirit of despair." That we "will be called oaks of righteousness, a planting of the LORD for the display of his splendor.” (Isaiah 61:3) We can say with David: “You turned my wailing into dancing; you removed my sackcloth and clothed me with joy, that my heart may sing to you and not be silent. O LORD my God, I will give you thanks forever.” (Psalm 30:11–12)
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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Post by fearnot on Nov 16, 2016 12:27:36 GMT -5
Even tho your thoughts on why we have to wait ....
not a punishment but to help us in some ways to 'transition' so to speak, including the 1000 years was really neat ( and yes, I know its not in the Bible, but it sure seemed as a good possibility...we will soon find out :-)
I need to keep hearing this....
"Many Christians also fear death, even though God has said He will provide us with the grace we need to face it and will take us to heaven."
When you wrote:
"Many unbelievers ridicule Christianity because they think we all walk around all the time feeling guilty about our sins, and this too is another of Satan's lies."
I thought...well, in a way, at least concerning that, unbelievers are sometimes right to think that, because some Christians ( at least for a time) do in fact walk around feeling guilty about their sins.
So we not only dishonor God, and don't do ourselves any favor,
we do a dis- service to unbelievers.
I don't suppose long faces are all that appealing to the unbeliever who may not see any joy, or peace as a result of being saved.
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Post by Cindy on Nov 18, 2016 12:57:40 GMT -5
Even tho your thoughts on why we have to wait ....
not a punishment but to help us in some ways to 'transition' so to speak, including the 1000 years was really neat ( and yes, I know its not in the Bible, but it sure seemed as a good possibility...we will soon find out :-)
I need to keep hearing this....
"Many Christians also fear death, even though God has said He will provide us with the grace we need to face it and will take us to heaven."
When you wrote:
"Many unbelievers ridicule Christianity because they think we all walk around all the time feeling guilty about our sins, and this too is another of Satan's lies."
I thought...well, in a way, at least concerning that, unbelievers are sometimes right to think that, because some Christians ( at least for a time) do in fact walk around feeling guilty about their sins.
So we not only dishonor God, and don't do ourselves any favor,
we do a dis- service to unbelievers.
I don't suppose long faces are all that appealing to the unbeliever who may not see any joy, or peace as a result of being saved.
“Therefore, I urge you, brothers, in view of God’s mercy, to offer your bodies as living sacrifices, holy and pleasing to God—this is your spiritual act of worship. Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will.” (Romans 12:1–2)
Paul wrote that when we offer our whole beings as living sacrifices to God and allow ourselves to be transformed by the renewing of our minds, we’ll know what God’s good, pleasing and perfect will is for us. Like everything else with God, this promise is a matter of faith and can’t be described, only lived. When you’re there you know it. What’s great is that every believer can experience this by doing what Rom 12:1-2 instructs.
To live a life that pleases God, we must offer up every area to him—our body, soul, mind, personality, & energy. This means refusing to let our thinking & behavior be shaped by the culture around us, whose standards & values often oppose God’s. Instead, we allow God to transform us from the inside out as our mind is daily renewed through Bible study, prayer, & fellowship with other believers. As our thinking changes, we begin to desire God’s will above all else. Every day God expects us to offer him our personal goals, dreams, & desires in favor of doing his will. It may be difficult to learn to submit, but once we experience being a living sacrifice, we’ll discover we weren’t really living before. Designed for devotion
When many people think of worship, they envision stained–glass windows and pipe organs. But in the Bible, the same word that is used to describe worship also means service. The greatest worship you ever render to God is to serve Him. For Paul, service meant a total commitment. Paul wrote to Timothy, “I thank God, whom I serve with a pure conscience” (2 Tim. 1:3). Paul was saying that you could look deep inside him & see that he served God with his entire being. Paul’s service was an act of worship. It was deep, genuine, & honest. That is the real measure of true spirituality. The only way to serve God is with total commitment. Truth for today
The only way in which we can offer a spiritual sacrifice to God is by presenting our bodies a living sacrifice. Sanctification means more than deliverance from sin, it means the deliberate commitment of myself whom God has saved, to God, and I do not care what it costs. If we do not sacrifice the natural to the spiritual, the natural life will mock at the life of the Son of God in us and produce a continual wavering. This is always the result of an undisciplined spiritual nature. We go wrong because we stubbornly refuse to discipline ourselves, physically, morally or mentally. ‘I wasn’t disciplined when I was a child.’ You must discipline yourself now. If you do not, you will ruin the whole of your personal life for God. My utmost for his highest
God’s Righteousness Revealed in Transformed Living (Romans 12:1–15:13) A Christian’s body is the temple of the Holy Spirit (1 Cor. 6:19–20). In the KJV “offer” is translated “present” (Rom. 12:1) and “yield” (Romans 6:13, Romans 6:16, Romans 6:19). The word “bodies,” mindful of the OT sacrifices, represents the totality of one’s life & activities, of which his body is the vehicle of expression. In contrast with OT sacrifices this is a “living” sacrifice. Such an offering is holy (set apart) & pleasing to God. Furthermore, it is spiritual worship (latreian). Latreian refers to any ministry performed for God, such as that of the priests & the Levites. Christians are believer-priests, identified with the great High Priest, the Lord Jesus Christ (cf. Heb. 7:23–28; 1 Peter 2:5, 9; Rev. 1:6). A believer’s offering of his total life as a sacrifice to God is therefore sacred service. In the light of Paul’s closely reasoned & finely argued exposition of the mercies of God (Rom. 1–11), such an offering is obviously a desirable response for believers.The Bible Knowledge Commentary
In these final 5 chapters, Paul explains in great detail how believers are to practically live out the rich theological truths of chaps. 1–11. God has graciously given believers so much, that Paul exhorts them to respond in grateful obedience.
“Therefore, I urge you, brothers, in view of God’s mercy, to offer your bodies as living sacrifices, holy and pleasing to God—this is your spiritual act of worship.” (Romans 12:1)
Therefore. This refers to Romans 11:36: “For from him and through him and to him are all things. To him be the glory forever! Amen.” Since all things are for His glory, we must respond by offering ourselves for that purpose. Urge. This Gr. word comes from a root which means “to call alongside to help.” Jesus used a related word, often translated “comforter,” in reference to the Holy Spirit. This family of words later came to connote exhorting, encouraging, or counseling. Paul was speaking as a counselor to his readers, but his counsel carried the full weight of his apostleship. God' mercy: The gracious, extravagant, divine graces Paul expounded in the first 11 chapters, including God’s love, grace, righteousness, & the gift of faith. Offer your bodies as living sacrifices: Under the Old Covenant, God accepted the sacrifices of dead animals. But because of Christ’s ultimate sacrifice, the OT sacrifices are no longer of any effect. For those in Christ, the only acceptable worship is to offer themselves completely to the Lord. Under God’s control, the believer’s yet-unredeemed body can & must be yielded to Him as an instrument of righteousness. Spiritual act of worship: In light of all the spiritual riches believers enjoy solely as the fruit of God’s mercies (Ro 11:33, 36), it logically follows that we owe God our highest form of service. The idea is of priestly, spiritual service, which was an integral part of OT worship. The MacArthur study Bible
Doctrine & duty always go together. What we believe helps to determine how we behave. It is not enough for us to understand Paul’s doctrinal explanations. We must translate our learning into living & show by our daily lives that we trust God’s Word. The key idea in this section is relationships. The term “relational theology” is a relatively new one, but the idea is not new. If we have a right relationship to God, we will have a right relationship to the people who are a part of our lives. “If a man says, I love God, yet hates his brother, he is a liar” (1 John 4:20). You give God your body (Romans 12:1). Before we trusted Christ, we used our body for sinful pleasures & purposes, but now we want to use it for His glory. The Christian’s body is God’s temple (1 Cor. 6:19–20) because the Spirit of God dwells within him (Rom. 8:9). It is our privilege to glorify & magnify Christ in our body (Phil. 1:20–21). The verb “offer” in this verse means “offer once and for all.” It commands a definite commitment of the body to the Lord, just as a bride & groom commit themselves to each other. The Bible exposition commentary
This same concept is expressed in Romans 6:13, Romans 6:16, Romans 6:19. Humans will either give themselves to God or to Satan. As Christ gave Himself uniquely to do the Father’s will, even death on a cross, His followers must also emulate His selfless living (cf. 2 Cor. 5:14–15; Gal. 2:20; 1 John 3:16). The term “body” seems to parallel “mind” in v. 2. Believers need to commit their entire being or person to God (cf. Deut. 6:5; 1 Cor. 6:20) as they had previously committed it to sin (cf. Rom. 6). This must be differentiated from asceticism (the harsh treatment of the physical body for religious purposes). It is not the body’s isolation, punishment or celibacy that is advocated, but an active life of service & Christlike love. “Which is your spiritual service of worship” The essence seems to be a conscious offering of one’s true self versus the ritual offerings of dead sacrificial animals. God wants us to live our lives in love & service to Him, not in formalistic procedures that do not impact daily living. The Gospel according to Paul
One of the first things we have to learn as Christians is not to trust our own thinking or rely on our own instincts. We now have the mind of Christ (1 Cor. 2:16), & His is the only mind we can rely on. When we are faithful & obedient to our Lord, we will think like Him, act like Him, love like Him, & in every possible way behave like Him, so that “whether we are awake or asleep, we may live together with Him”(1 Thess. 5:10). To demonstrate the transforming nature of regeneration, Paul describes & defines the inherent realities of our new life in Christ. These are not exhortations—they are reminders of what occurred at the moment of conversion. Our salvation also means we will think differently. When you became a Christian, God initially renewed your mind & gave you a completely new spiritual & moral capability. That renewal continues throughout your life as you obey God’s will & His Word (cf. Rom. 12:1–2). This process is not a one-time accomplishment but a continual work of God’s Spirit in you (Titus 3:5). Your resources in this process are always God’s Word & prayer. Through them you gain the mind of Christ (Col. 3:16). The power of integrity
Then Paul commanded, But be transformed (pres. passive imper., “keep on being transformed”) by the renewing of your mind. The Greek verb translated “transformed” (“metamorphosis,” a total change from inside out cf. 2 Cor. 3:18). The key to this change is the “mind”, the control center of one’s attitudes, thoughts, feelings, & actions (cf. Eph. 4:22–23). As one’s mind keeps on being made new by the spiritual input of God’s Word, prayer, & Christian fellowship, his lifestyle keeps on being transformed. Then you will be able to test and approve (“prove by testing” i.e., ascertain) what God’s will is—His good, pleasing (Rom. 12:1), & perfect will. These 3 qualities are not attributes of God’s will as the NIV & some other translations imply. Rather, Paul said that God’s will itself is what is good, well-pleasing (to Him), & perfect. “Good,” for example, is not an adjective (God’s “good” will) but a noun (God’s will is what is good—good, i.e., for each believer). As a Christian is transformed in his mind & is made more like Christ, he comes to approve & desire God’s will, not his own will for his life. Then he discovers that God’s will is what is good for him, that it pleases God, & is complete in every way. It's all he needs. But only by being renewed spiritually can a believer ascertain, do, & enjoy the will of God. The Bible Knowledge Commentary
“Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will.” (Romans 12:2)
do not conformed. “Conform” refers to assuming an outward expression that does not reflect what is really inside, a kind of masquerade or act. The word’s form implies that Paul’s readers were already allowing this to happen & must stop. This world. Better translated, “age,” which refers to the system of beliefs, values—or the spirit of the age—at any time current in the world. This sum of contemporary thinking & values forms the moral atmosphere of our world & is always dominated by Satan (cf. 2Co 4:4). Transformed. The Gr. word, from which the Eng. word “metamorphosis” comes, connotes a change in outward appearance. Matthew uses the same word to describe the Transfiguration (Mt 17:2). Just as Christ briefly & in a limited way displayed outwardly His inner, divine nature & glory at the Transfiguration, Christians should outwardly manifest their inner, redeemed natures, not once, but daily (cf. 2 Co 3:18; Eph 5:18). Renewing of your mind. That kind of transformation can occur only as the Holy Spirit changes our thinking through consistent study & meditation of Scripture (Ps 119:11; cf. Col 1:28; Col 3:10, Col 3:16; Phil 4:8). The renewed mind is one saturated with & controlled by the Word of God. Good … pleasing … perfect. Holy living of which God approves. These words borrow from OT sacrificial language & describe a life that is morally & spiritually spotless, just as the sacrificial animals were to be (cf. Lv 22:19–25). The MacArthur study Bible
“do not be conformed” Believers are exhorted not to continue to be like the changing, fallen world system (the old age of rebellion) of which they are still physically a part, but to be radically changed into Christlikeness (the new age of the Spirit). “continue to be transformed.” This is also true of “conform” in v. 2a. For a similar contrast compare Ezek. 18:31 “Rid yourselves of all the offenses you have committed, and get a new heart and a new spirit. Why will you die, O house of Israel?” (human commitment & action) with Ezek 36:26–27 “I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws.” (divine gift). Both are needed! What one thinks about, one becomes. After salvation, because of the indwelling Spirit, believers have a new perspective (cf. Eph. 4:13, 23; Titus 3:5). This new biblical worldview, with the indwelling Spirit, is what transforms the mind & lifestyle of believers. Believers look at reality in a totally different way because their minds have been energized by the Spirit. A new redeemed, Spirit-led mind results in a new lifestyle! The Gospel according to Paul
We’re no longer to look at life’s issues as mere human beings, but let our perceptions be reshaped by God’s own revelation of reality in the Scriptures. The Bible readers Companion
“stop conforming yourselves” They are to resist being poured into the mold of the present thinking, value systems, & conduct of this world. This term is used here & in 1 Peter 1:14. King James Version study Bible
You give Him your mind (v. 2a). The world wants to control your mind, but God wants to transform your mind (see Eph. 4:17–24; Col. 3:1–11). This word transform is the same as transfigure in Matthew 17:2. It has come into our English language as the word “metamorphosis.” It describes a change from within. The world wants to change your mind, so it exerts pressure from without. But the HS changes your mind by releasing power from within. God transforms our minds & makes us spiritually minded by using His Word. As you spend time meditating on God’s Word, memorizing it, & making it a part of your inner man, God will gradually make your mind more spiritual (see 2 Cor. 3:18). You give Him your will (v. 2b). Your mind controls your body, & your will controls your mind. Many people think they can control their will by “willpower,” but usually they fail. It is only when we yield the will to God that His power can take over & give us the willpower we need to be victorious Christians. We surrender our wills to God through disciplined prayer. The Bible exposition commentary
“You, however, did not come to know Christ that way. Surely you heard of him and were taught in him in accordance with the truth that is in Jesus. You were taught, with regard to your former way of life, to put off your old self, which is being corrupted by its deceitful desires; to be made new in the attitude of your minds; and to put on the new self, created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness.” (Ephesians 4:20–24)
“Be renewed in the spirit of your mind” (Eph. 4:23). Conversion is a crisis that leads to a process. Through Christ, once & for all, we have been given a new position in His new creation, but day by day, we must by faith appropriate what He has given us. The Word of God renews the mind as we surrender our all to Him (Rom. 12:1–2). “Sanctify them through Thy truth: Thy Word is truth” (John 17:17). As the mind understands the truth of God’s Word, it is gradually transformed by the Spirit, & this renewal leads to a changed life. Physically, you are what you eat, but spiritually, you are what you think. “As he thinketh in his heart, so is he” (Prov. 23:7). This is why it is important for us to spend time daily meditating on the Word, praying, & fellowshipping with Christ. The Bible exposition commentary
“Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will.” (Romans 12:2)
Knowing & obeying the will of God can’t be a halfhearted endeavor on our part, a hobby we indulge in when there’s an emergency or when we “feel like it.” God wants us to trust Him with all our heart & acknowledge Him in all our ways. Knowing & doing the will of God isn’t a “spiritual technique” that we use occasionally; it’s a committed lifestyle that involves everything we do. Be Skillful.
Dedication to the Will of God. God’s will refers to His purpose for the life of the believer. It implies His guidance or direction in all of life’s decisions. Dedication is an act of surrender or submission to His will for our lives whereby we become a “living sacrifice.” Daily dependence on God results in our transformation into the image of Christ. Illustration: When we seek to discern the will of God we must also be committed to doing the will of God as it is revealed in the Word of God (John 7:17). Application: The believer should evaluate every decision on the basis of biblical principles, knowing that obedience brings God’s blessing. (First Reference, Gen. 22:12; Primary Reference, Rom. 12:1.) King James Version study Bible
“Therefore, I urge you, brothers, in view of God’s mercy, to offer your bodies as living sacrifices, holy and pleasing to God—this is your spiritual act of worship. Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will.” (Romans 12:1–2)
If a Christian can by possibility be saved while he conforms to this world at any rate it must be so as by fire. Such a bare salvation is almost as much to be dreaded as desired. Reader would you wish to leave this world in the darkness of a desponding death bed, & enter heaven as a shipwrecked mariner climbs the rocks of his native country? then be worldly; be mixed up with Mammonites, & refuse to go without the camp bearing Christ’s reproach. Would you have a heaven below as well as a heaven above? Would you comprehend with all saints what are the heights & depths & know the love of Christ which passeth knowledge? Would you receive an abundant entrance into the joy of your Lord? Then come out from among them & be separate & touch not the unclean thing. Would you attain the full assurance of faith? You cannot gain it while you commune with sinners. Would you flame with vehement love? Your love will be damped by the drenchings of godless society. You cannot become a great Christian—you may be a babe in grace, but you never can be a perfect man in Christ Jesus while you yield yourself to the worldly maxims & modes of business of men of the world. It is ill for an heir of heaven to be a great friend with the heirs of hell. It has a bad look when a courtier is too intimate with his king’s enemies. Even small inconsistencies are dangerous. Little thorns make great blisters, little moths destroy fine garments & little frivolities & little rogueries will rob religion of a thousand joys. O professor too little separated from sinners, you know not what you lose by your conformity to the world. It cuts the tendons of your strength, & makes you creep where you ought to run. Then, for your own comfort’s sake & for the sake of your growth in grace, if you be a Christian, be a Christian, & be a marked & distinct one. Morning and evening
“I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord.” — Phil 3:8 Spiritual knowledge of Christ will be a personal knowledge. I cannot know Jesus through another person’s acquaintance with him. No, I must know him myself; I must know him on my own account. It will be an intelligent knowledge—I must know him, not as the visionary dreams of him, but as the Word reveals him. I must know his natures, divine & human. I must know his offices—his attributes—his works—his shame—his glory. I must meditate upon him until I “comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, & length, & depth, & height; & know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge.” It will be an affectionate knowledge of him; indeed, if I know him at all, I must love him. An ounce of heart knowledge is worth a ton of head learning. Our knowledge of him will be a satisfying knowledge. When I know my Saviour, my mind will be full to the brim—I shall feel that I have that which my spirit panted after. “This is that bread whereof if a man eat he shall never hunger. At the same time it will be an exciting knowledge; the more I know of my Beloved, the more I shall want to know. The higher I climb the loftier will be the summits which invite my eager footsteps. I shall want the more as I get the more. To conclude; this knowledge of Christ Jesus will be a most happy one; in fact, so elevating, that sometimes it will completely bear me up above all trials, doubts, & sorrows; & it will, while I enjoy it, make me something more than “Man that is born of woman, who is of few days, & full of trouble”; for it will fling about me the immortality of the ever living Saviour, & gird me with the golden girdle of his eternal joy. Come, my soul, sit at Jesus’s feet & learn of him all this day. Morning and evening
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Post by Cindy on Nov 21, 2016 10:13:34 GMT -5
I can't wait to discuss all of this with you! By the time we're done, you'll never, ever doubt your salvation again!!!
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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Post by fearnot on Nov 21, 2016 19:58:20 GMT -5
I read it one time today....but I really do want to re-read it, and most likely 3 times like you suggested ( today, we cleaned, but will have 2 beds left to make tomorrow but we are basically done, so I ought to be able to re-read it again tomorrow.
Thank you so much.
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Post by Cindy on Nov 22, 2016 11:47:53 GMT -5
Sounds good. I won't write anymore till we've had time to talk about this. 
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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Post by fearnot on Nov 23, 2016 0:57:49 GMT -5
I read thru it again today.....and am thinking I perhaps should take tomorrow and thru to do a 3rd reading ( the reason for 2 days is I promised Hossanah I would make pumpkin muffins for Thanks-giving at her place.
So tomorrow, I will be baking ( and re-reading) and Thursday.... Thanksgiving....we will both be busy with family....so shall we aim for Friday?
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Post by Cindy on Nov 23, 2016 11:53:39 GMT -5
Go right ahead and take all the time you need. I do want to add a little more as I don't want to forget about this. But I'll be taking tomorrow off as I'll be busy all day anyway. You probably will be too.
This is about another of my favorite verses: “Who are you to judge someone else’s servant? To his own master he stands or falls. And he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.” (Romans 14:4) First, we need to take this verse in context and realize that he is talking about a Christian criticizing another believer. He is not talking about us defending the faith, or about someone telling a brother or sister in Christ that they've sinned against them and holding them accountable the way Jesus taught us to - by going to them first and bringing it to their attention, then if they don't repent and you're not reconciled, by taking another person with you, etc. (the whole point of what Christ taught us about this is so that the two will be reconciled to each other). But that's not what he's talking about here. Nor is is talking about two believers who are accountability partners and pray together, encourage each other, and help each other stay away from sin by letting each other know when they've noticed the possibility of sin in the others life. Here he is talking about a believer criticizing another believer, putting a fellow believer down. That is never good and is never done out of love, and therefore is a sin.
Paul says that all believers are slaves to Christ and He alone is their Lord. He goes on to say that Jesus alone will hold them accountable for their motives and actions, just as He will hold us accountable for ours. Then comes the best part of all when Paul says that Jesus will make us stand! It's a wonderful promise!
To understand it completely let's look at another verse that uses the term "stand". “through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace in which we now stand. And we rejoice in the hope of the glory of God.” (Romans 5:2) this is translated literally as: “ in which we now stand and continue to stand.” God is letting us know that He will not let go of us for any reason. There is nothing we can do, think or say that will cause Him to let us go. We're told: “Now, brothers, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.” (1 Corinthians 15:1–2) Unlike us, once God commits to something or someone, He sticks with it. However, we also have to be reminded that some may have a shallow, non-saving faith. True believers hold fast to the gospel and don't let go. They may mess up royally, like I did for most of my adult life, but they still believe the gospel (again like I did, but thought I'd go to hell cause I couldn't live up to it)
So we're being told that no matter what we do, no matter what happens, God will not let us go. We ARE saved and cannot be unsaved because our salvation is a matter of His Will, not ours. He has saved us, not we ourselves, and we have been saved not because we were good or even because we wanted to be saved - because when He first saved us, we were still His enemy. So our salvation has nothing to do with how good we are or how bad we are. It has to do with God alone. God gives us the faith we have, we don't just suddenly have it or develop it. He gives it to us as a gift. After He has given it to us, then yes, we may choose to develop it, but again, it was originally given to us by the Lord, so isn't something we did.
If God had not supernaturally intervened in our lives and saved us, we would never have been saved. If He does not keep us saved then no one, absolutely no one, not even the apostles could ever be saved - because we are incapable of living up to His standards 100% of the time, when all it takes is one tiny sin to destroy everything. Therefore He determines to save us and keep us saved and promises to complete our salvation on the day of Christ Jesus, the day we call the Rapture.
He gives us this same promise many times in different words to make sure we know and understand that we are saved and always will be saved. Here are some of them that are sweet music to our souls:
“Who are you to judge someone else’s servant? To his own master he stands or falls. And he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.” (Romans 14:4)
“To him who is able to keep you from falling and to present you before his glorious presence without fault and with great joy— to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.” (Jude 24–25)
“God, who has called you into fellowship with his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, is faithful.” (1 Corinthians 1:9)
“being fully persuaded that God had power to do what he had promised.” (Romans 4:21)
“And God is able to make all grace abound to you, so that in all things at all times, having all that you need, you will abound in every good work.” (2 Corinthians 9:8)
“Now to him who is able to do immeasurably more than all we ask or imagine, according to his power that is at work within us,” (Ephesians 3:20)
“who through faith are shielded by God’s power until the coming of the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time.” (1 Peter 1:5)
“though he stumble, he will not fall, for the LORD upholds him with his hand.” (Psalm 37:24)
“I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. I and the Father are one.”” (John 10:28–30)
We could add many more to these, from the old as well as the new testament. Reading them, we can rejoice and thank the Lord that He has saved us and given us the faith we have and that He will sustain us until the day He comes to complete our salvation. God's power (not our own) actually shields us until the rapture when our salvation is completed. God has promised this to us and He does not lie and cannot go back on His Word. So whenever you have doubts, immediately shut them down and replace them with any of these wonderful promises!
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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Post by fearnot on Nov 27, 2016 22:06:56 GMT -5
I have re-read the first for the 3rd time ( and still gained a lot) and your latest post....thank you.
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Post by Cindy on Nov 28, 2016 13:20:25 GMT -5
Ok, just start discussing what I've posted so far when you're ready. Since you're still studying Romans, I'm afraid I put quite a bit in my reply to you there today...
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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Post by fearnot on Nov 28, 2016 16:58:50 GMT -5
right off the bat, I found this that you wrote to be extremely helpful!!!
"God saved us while we were still his enemies and while we still actually hated Him!
He's not going to "unsave" us simply because we can't live up to His standards.
After all, He knows we can't live up to them.
That's what the Law was all about: to teach us that we cannot possibly be good enough for God.
But added to that what you posted today, about how God can use even our failures and change them into a 'win' ( tho in and of themselves, no sin is a win.....but it can be transformed into a plus to me.
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Post by Cindy on Nov 29, 2016 12:33:14 GMT -5
right off the bat, I found this that you wrote to be extremely helpful!!!
"God saved us while we were still his enemies and while we still actually hated Him!
He's not going to "unsave" us simply because we can't live up to His standards.
After all, He knows we can't live up to them.
That's what the Law was all about: to teach us that we cannot possibly be good enough for God.
But added to that what you posted today, about how God can use even our failures and change them into a 'win' ( tho in and of themselves, no sin is a win.....but it can be transformed into a plus to me.
I meant to say on the other thread too in reply to when you said that it was good cause the question you asked was what Paul was talking about in the next part that you read, that it shows that you're thinking just like Paul was! It shows that you are following his line of thought even though you didn't realize it. Isn't that neat?
Back to this though. I think one of the big problems we have is that we have literally been brainwashed by the world...especially those of us who got involved with the psychology system. Until we can truly realize that everything they ever told us or ever could tell us was a lie, we are going to be held back by it. We have to know that God meant it when He said that everyone who is unsaved is a fool as far as knowledge about the human mind and inner self are concerned. Those are things only God can know about and we can only know them when we are being taught by the Holy Spirit in His Word. His Word cleanses us of that brainwashing as we realize more and more that they couldn't possibly have had a clue what they were talking about, no matter how many degrees they had or how well they are recognized by the medical profession today. They are part of the world, the flesh and Satan and not part of God. Those very few who get saved and work in that profession are often hindered in their own spiritual growth until they themselves realize that nothing they learned was true and have to go to the Bible to learn everything all over again to get it right. Then they become biblical counselors and would never dream of mixing the worlds philosophies with what the bible says. Sadly that rarely happens. But, then again, anything is possible with God. I know that when I finally realized this, it was like a huge weight was taken off of me. I realized that none of their labels were true and instead the only labels that were true of me were the ones that God labeled me with: that I was His child and that He had a great purpose for me and plan for my life and that I would succeed because He would make sure that it happened.
We even have to realize that this is true about anyone who is not truly saved and very knowledgeable in God's Word and is delving into anything about "the inner self", or the "inner man", however you want to put it. So we can take everything we were told and just throw it in the trash, because that's what it is -garbage. To know the Truth, we just have to study His Word with Him.
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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Post by fearnot on Nov 29, 2016 16:12:28 GMT -5
I feel so much more secure now....but I do have another concern, and that is I cannot pinpoint when I was actually saved.
And because I have had bouts of doubts, in addition, that is a sort of issue.
I believe I am saved, tho I cannot point to an exact day....but does a person necessarily have to be able to? I think most likely not, because so many things point to my being a 'new creation', born again, but I have been wrong many times before.....
I think you even mentioned something concerning yourself, that you were saved way before you thought ( I think I remember you thought you were not saved because you wandered off ( in a fashion) but later on, revised your salvation date to the earlier time?
My point is, at least, maybe, in some respect, for a time, you were not exactly sure when you were saved.
My case is nowhere nearly as clear as you ( you had only 2 potential times)...as for me, because of constant assaulting doubts over the years, I am at a loss as to a day I can point to.
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Post by Cindy on Nov 30, 2016 12:21:34 GMT -5
 I realize you're getting stuff about our salvation on both threads now, and I hope it's not overwhelming you, but is instead encouraging you. Please, no matter how often I say that losing our salvation is totally impossible, please know that I do still want to hear any concern you might have, no matter how small or unimportant you may think it is. The whole point of this is to once an for all time help you to know for certain that you are saved and always will be. OK?I feel so much more secure now....but I do have another concern, and that is I cannot pinpoint when I was actually saved.
And because I have had bouts of doubts, in addition, that is a sort of issue.
I believe I am saved, tho I cannot point to an exact day....but does a person necessarily have to be able to? I think most likely not, because so many things point to my being a 'new creation', born again, but I have been wrong many times before.....
I think you even mentioned something concerning yourself, that you were saved way before you thought ( I think I remember you thought you were not saved because you wandered off ( in a fashion) but later on, revised your salvation date to the earlier time?
My point is, at least, maybe, in some respect, for a time, you were not exactly sure when you were saved.
My case is nowhere nearly as clear as you ( you had only 2 potential times)...as for me, because of constant assaulting doubts over the years, I am at a loss as to a day I can point to.
I can tell you though what I did as an adult to make certain of it though, and it's what I would tell any adult to do that wasn't absolutely certain that they were saved.
I prayed to the Lord and told Him that I wanted to be saved, that I knew I was a sinner and I believed that He'd died for me and paid for all my sins and rose again to prove it. I asked His forgiveness for all the ways I'd sinned against Him and told Him that I wanted to give my life to Him and have Him be my Lord and be in charge of my life from then on and told Him that I would do my best to obey Him. Finally, I told Him that I thought He was already living within me, but if I was wrong, to please come and live within me now and never leave me like He promised. And of course, I also told Him that I loved Him. (which was of course impossible for me to do unless I'd already been saved lol) But, By doing that, and meaning it, I knew that I no longer had to wonder about it or be concerned about it because I could now know for sure that if I somehow hadn't been saved before, I certainly was now. I didn't just say those sentences I posted, rather I spoke to Him and simply covered all those things when I did. I knew that He would understand that I was doing it to make sure I was saved because I didn't want there to be any possible doubt about it, and that since it was a sin to doubt my salvation that this would enable me to stop doubting it.
I look back on it now and feel a little silly about how I "made sure" about it because now after all my studies I know I had to have already been saved or I couldn't have loved the Lord the way I did and wanted to please Him. I'm not sorry I did it though, because it did serve the purpose I intended it to. It allowed me to put away any doubts for good. Does that help you? I sure hope so. There is no magic formula, including what we call the "sinners prayer". Many people have prayed that prayer and are no more saved than the squirrels outside in my yard are. It's not about the words you say, it's about what's in your heart and what you really, truly mean and truly want and are looking for. I wrote more about that in the following article, but if you read it, keep in mind that when I talk about when I was saved in just about any other article I've written, I'm speaking of the time I realized my salvation as an adult, since I hadn't figured the rest of it out until fairly recently. I don't think you need to read this, as I'm pretty sure you already know it all, but if someone else reads this thread, they may need it:
Salvation is more then just saying a prayer
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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Post by fearnot on Nov 30, 2016 14:11:09 GMT -5
Absolutely helpful....you told me quite a bit more than I thought I might have read about your salvation and the added info helped a lot!
That has been my experience...was it as a young young child, at 12 or 13, in Sunday school, watching some false TV evangelist/teacher/preacher, some bible study, saying the 'sinner's prayer but desiring it will all my heart etc.
And yet, I do believe I am saved because of the consistent, change, growing love of Jesus.....
Speaking of which, I don't remember which bible study it was ( probably after I gave up my 'hippie life style)....but I remember at first finding it even hard to say the name Jesus ( well other than as a swear word which I had done along with many other 'potty gutter mouth' ways of talking as a 'hippie'.
I remember the first time I swore, in order to finally be liked...but it felt sooooo bad ( I wanted to cry) but I soon got to the place where sailors would have blushed ( how fast the down hill road can be its horrifying).
But just as I zoom to the gates of Hell with my mouth...
I also slowly on found, I no longer found the name of Jesus strange and weird to say
And then,
it became the opposite...it became a name of peace, joy, love, worship, praise, truth etc.
what was I talking about? LOL
Anyway, yes thank you that was very very helpful!!!
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Post by Cindy on Dec 1, 2016 12:53:15 GMT -5
I'm glad it helped. If you feel at all unsure about your own salvation, please don't hesitate to confirm it with the Lord talking to Him as I suggested. There's nothing wrong with someone making sure they're right with God. In fact, I wish more people would reflect on it and be determined to make their standing sure, especially since we're told to examine ourselves to be sure. Please share any questions or concerns you have had, even in the past, from dreams or whatever, so we can make sure there's not the tiniest doubt left in your mind and so you will have God's Truth to fight back with whenever Satan, the world or your flesh tries to cause you to doubt again....for they will surely keep trying!
These are important scriptures about it:
“His divine power has given us everything we need for life and godliness through our knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and goodness. Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature and escape the corruption in the world caused by evil desires. For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge; and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; and to godliness, brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness, love. For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. But if anyone does not have them, he is nearsighted and blind, and has forgotten that he has been cleansed from his past sins. Therefore, my brothers, be all the more eager to make your calling and election sure. For if you do these things, you will never fall, and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.” (2 Peter 1:3–11)
“Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves. Do you not realize that Christ Jesus is in you—unless, of course, you fail the test? And I trust that you will discover that we have not failed the test.” (2 Corinthians 13:5–6)
“for God’s gifts and his call are irrevocable.” (Romans 11:29)
“Now it is God who makes both us and you stand firm in Christ. He anointed us, set his seal of ownership on us, and put his Spirit in our hearts as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.” (2 Corinthians 1:21–22)
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Post by Cindy on Dec 8, 2016 12:58:50 GMT -5
I thought of something when I was studying this morning that I wanted to share with you. I don't know if you remember the miracle the Lord sent me before my surgery, when He sent an eagle to land on my car. If you haven't heard it, I wrote about it here: On Eagles Wings. Let me quote a small part of it so I can add something I didn't put in it.
What I didn't say in the article was that just before it was time to leave work that day, I told my employer about what happened and told her that I was beginning to have doubts because there was just no way that could have happened. She was quiet for a moment and then asked me how I would feel if I'd given her a gift and she refused to believe that I'd gotten it for her. I was surprised by her question, and not sure where she was going with it, but told her that it would hurt my feelings if that happened. She was quiet again for another moment, giving me time to think about it, and then asked me how I thought God would feel if He gave me a gift and I refused to believe it or accept it from Him. I was immediately convicted by what she said and began to cry and ask His forgiveness. She prayed with me and I felt much better afterward, and felt that I'd be able to know within myself that it really did happen even if others didn't believe me. I did look up eagles on my computer when I got home, so I could confirm that was really the kind of bird it was. I love birds and flowers, but don't know their names and can't identify many of them. I was pretty sure it was an eagle, but wanted to make sure it wasn't some other kind of bird. No matter what kind it was, it would still be a miracle. When I realized from the photos online that it was in fact an eagle, I once again asked the Lord to forgive any doubts I had and thanked Him for the tremendous gift He'd given me.
Now, the reason I wanted to share this with you. The Lord has given you a tremendous gift too -- a gift even more tremendous than the eagle He sent me. He's given you the gift of salvation and an eternity spent with Him. You too have had doubts just like I did about the Eagle, and I know that the very last thing you would want to do is hurt the Lord's feelings or reject His gift. Yet that's what you're doing each time you allow yourself to give in to the doubts. Now that you realize this, I know that you will know exactly what to do when those doubts try and come back. Instead of allowing them in your mind, I know that you'll ask the Lord's forgiveness and speak the truth to yourself, confirming that you are in fact saved because God doesn't lie and your salvation isn't determined by anything you've ever done or ever will do, it's determined by God's love, grace and mercy.
We often take this verse out of context and assume that it's talking about Heaven, but it's not. “However, as it is written: “No eye has seen, no ear has heard, no mind has conceived what God has prepared for those who love him”— (1 Corinthians 2:9) The next verse shows us that it's about our live today, and the verse before it shows that it isn't talking about heaven: “None of the rulers of this age understood it, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. However, as it is written: “No eye has seen, no ear has heard, no mind has conceived what God has prepared for those who love him”— but God has revealed it to us by his Spirit. The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God.” (1 Corinthians 2:8–10) This verse refers to the wisdom that God has prepared for us to understand. Remember how Jesus told the disciples that He would speak in parables so that those who didn't belong to Him wouldn't understand, but so those who did belong to Him would? The Holy Spirit gives us understanding of God's Word as He teaches us and reminds us of things He's taught us before. The verse I quoted above is specifically speaking about giving us the understanding of our salvation. We can't know or understand our salvation unless we have the Spirit of God indwelling us, because it cannot be understood with just our human mind. It's a spiritual truth and can only be understood when the Spirit of Truth, the Holy Spirit teaches us and gives us the assurance that we are saved. He doesn't just give us reasons we can know we're saved, like A, B, and C, but also proves we are saved because of the very fact that He is indwelling us and teaching us. In other words, we couldn't understand it or know we might be saved if it wasn't for Him. So if we do have any understanding at all, then it had to come from Him and therefore it proves beyond all doubt that we are saved. I love one other thing another commentary says about these verses that I'd like to share with you:
“For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man’s spirit within him? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.” (1 Corinthians 2:11)
I cannot know what is going on within your personality, but your human spirit within you knows. Neither can I know “the deep things of God” unless somehow I can enter into God’s personality. I cannot do that—but by His Spirit, God has entered into my personality. Through the Holy Spirit, each believer becomes a sharer of the very life of God. The Holy Spirit knows “the deep things of God” and reveals them to us. 1 Cor 2:10 makes it clear that “the deep things of God” is another description of “the things which God hath prepared for them that love Him” (1 Cor. 2:9). God wants us to know today all the blessings of His grace that He has planned for us. The Bible exposition commentary
“We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us. This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words.” (1 Corinthians 2:12–13)
Jesus promised that the Spirit would teach us (John 14:26) and guide us into truth (John 16:13). But we must note carefully the sequence here: the Spirit taught Paul from the Word, and Paul then taught the believers. The truth of God is found in the Word of God. And it is very important to note that these spiritual truths are given in specific words. In the Bible, we have much more than inspired thoughts; we have inspired words. “For I have given unto them the words which Thou gavest Me” (John 17:8). Each of our four children has a different vocation. We have a pastor, a nurse, an electronics designer, and a secretary in a commercial real estate firm. Each of the children had to learn a specialized vocabulary in order to succeed. The only one I really understand is the pastor. The successful Christian learns the vocabulary of the Spirit and makes use of it. He knows the meaning of justification, sanctification, adoption, propitiation, election, inspiration, and so forth. In understanding God’s vocabulary, we come to understand God’s Word and God’s will for our lives. If the engineering student can grasp the technical terms of chemistry, physics, or electronics, why should it be difficult for Christians, taught by the Spirit, to grasp the vocabulary of Christian truth? What a thrill to be able to study the Bible and let the Spirit teach us “the deep things of God” (1 Cor. 2:10). How does the Spirit teach the believer? He compares “spiritual things with spiritual.” He reminds us of what He has taught us (John 14:26), relates that truth to something new, & then leads us into new truth & new applications of old truth. What a joy it is to sit before the pages of the Bible & let the Spirit reveal God’s truth. The Holy Spirit is like a householder who “bringeth forth out of his treasure things new and old” (Matt. 13:52). The new always comes out of the old & helps us better understand the old. God gives us new insights into old truths as we compare one part of Scripture with another. Jesus based His teaching on the OT, yet people were amazed at what He taught because it was so fresh & exciting. I suggest that you make time every day to read the Word and meditate on it. Follow a regular schedule in your reading and give yourself time to pray, think, and meditate. Let the Spirit of God search the Word and teach you. The study and application of basic Bible doctrine can transform your life. Wiersbe, W. W. The Bible exposition commentary
I hope this encourages you and gives you hope!
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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Post by fearnot on Dec 12, 2016 9:52:23 GMT -5
Thank You Cindy...that was very helpful about not accepting a gift and how it would make Jesus sad.
It has been a fairly long time since I had a 'dream' more like a nightmare or even more a 'demon-mare'.
However for the first time in a long time I had another one. Usually when 'attacked....(because it is always an attack)
I cannot move or yell or anything
However for the first time, tho I was terrorized, I started yelling so loud that Leonard heard me ( tho he was watching something with headphones on and almost always cannot hear anything, let alone me in another room).
anyway I was waking up as he got to me....he said a prayer and I went back to sleep...no more attacks.
We have talked about this several times in the past, and tho I often have 'nightmares', which I am pretty sure are either to wake me up because I have to go to the bathroom, or because I am having a sleep apnea.....
I still confused as to why these particular demon like events happen ( they are getting less and less....It may have been over a year since the last one).
These also used to made me confused about my salvation....but not really so now.....but the evil seems so real....
other nightmares may be about drowning, or some 'scary' human, or fire, etc. etc.....they are scary....but do not seem demonic.
After the other night I asked Jesus to let me sleep as a small child in His lap ( well I asked Him that after Leonard prayed) and I did have a most peaceful sleep the rest of the night.
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Post by Cindy on Dec 12, 2016 10:18:06 GMT -5
Thank You Cindy...that was very helpful about not accepting a gift and how it would make Jesus sad.
It has been a fairly long time since I had a 'dream' more like a nightmare or even more a 'demon-mare'.
However for the first time in a long time I had another one. Usually when 'attacked....(because it is always an attack)
I cannot move or yell or anything
However for the first time, tho I was terrorized, I started yelling so loud that Leonard heard me ( tho he was watching something with headphones on and almost always cannot hear anything, let alone me in another room).
anyway I was waking up as he got to me....he said a prayer and I went back to sleep...no more attacks.
We have talked about this several times in the past, and tho I often have 'nightmares', which I am pretty sure are either to wake me up because I have to go to the bathroom, or because I am having a sleep apnea.....
I still confused as to why these particular demon like events happen ( they are getting less and less....It may have been over a year since the last one).
These also used to made me confused about my salvation....but not really so now.....but the evil seems so real....
other nightmares may be about drowning, or some 'scary' human, or fire, etc. etc.....they are scary....but do not seem demonic.
After the other night I asked Jesus to let me sleep as a small child in His lap ( well I asked Him that after Leonard prayed) and I did have a most peaceful sleep the rest of the night.
You're doing so well Barbara, keep up the good work! |
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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Post by fearnot on Dec 12, 2016 12:44:00 GMT -5
Thank you Cindy....it's as if the enemy whispers, you would not have these 'visitations' ( it's what it seems like0 if you were truly saved.
But I know better....still they are very frightening but yes, this is the first time Leonard knew almost exactly when it happened and came and prayed and that was that( well it goes almost without saying.....Jesus ended it!!)
I sure will be glad when the day ( night too) comes that will never ever happen again.
Thank you for your encouraging words!!!
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Post by Cindy on Dec 13, 2016 11:50:45 GMT -5
yep, cause the exact opposite is true...it wouldn't happen if you weren't saved LOL
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Post by Cindy on Dec 18, 2016 9:43:22 GMT -5
Thank you Cindy....it's as if the enemy whispers, you would not have these 'visitations' ( it's what it seems like0 if you were truly saved.
But I know better....still they are very frightening but yes, this is the first time Leonard knew almost exactly when it happened and came and prayed and that was that( well it goes almost without saying.....Jesus ended it!!)
I sure will be glad when the day ( night too) comes that will never ever happen again.
Thank you for your encouraging words!!!
I just posted a devotion that I hope you'll read and see that this is yet another way you can be sure of your salvation. Let me just add one other thing to it: Paul said, “There is none righteous, not even one; there is none who understands, there is none who seeks for God” (Rom. 3:10–11).Note "none who seeks for God" meaning not one single person can seek for God unless they are saved! They can't seek for Him even a little bit! Here's a link to the devotion:
fresh-hope.com/thread/3102/penetrating-box
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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Post by fearnot on Dec 18, 2016 10:53:29 GMT -5
Thank you so much Cindy...I will go read it now.
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Post by Cindy on Dec 21, 2016 9:28:43 GMT -5
Glad you saw it!
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Post by evafromgreece on Jan 9, 2017 12:28:27 GMT -5
Thank you Cindy for reminding me this :)
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Post by Cindy on Jan 10, 2017 10:02:40 GMT -5
Thank you Cindy for reminding me this :) |
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I realize you're getting stuff about our salvation on both threads now, and I hope it's not overwhelming you, but is instead encouraging you. Please, no matter how often I say that losing our salvation is totally impossible, please know that I do still want to hear any concern you might have, no matter how small or unimportant you may think it is. The whole point of this is to once an for all time help you to know for certain that you are saved and always will be. OK?
!!
