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Post by Cindy on Mar 24, 2016 12:51:56 GMT -5
This is the longer, more involved study we did on the original Fresh-Hope in 2010. The short version can be found here in the thread, Taking Thoughts Captive
Part 1:
Today, we’re finally going to talk about the practical methods that the Lord gives us in His Word to overcome stress, fear, worry , depression, etc. The things the Lord gives us to do are very easy and yet require total commitment. You have to stick with it every single day. In fact the things the Lord gives us to help us, are commands from Him that we are to be doing anyway, but most of us tend to skip over that little fact.
Let me assure you that the Lord is quite aware of your thoughts and feelings every day. He wants you to be aware of them as well and more then that, He expects us to take control of them. While the world teaches us that we are at the mercy of our feelings and thoughts, God’s Word tells us that instead we are to be in conscious control of them at all times.
2 Corinthians 10:5 We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ.
It is our thoughts that produce our emotions and our actions, not the other way around.
Proverbs 23:7 For as he thinks in his heart, so is he
What the Lord wants us to do is take every thought we have captive and make it obedient to Christ. How do we do this and what exactly does that mean?
First let’s talk about what it means. When you have a thought that is saying something like, “What if such and such happens” thought. You know, those fantasy thoughts of “what if my husband died and I had no one” and things like that. God says to “capture” that thought. In other words stop it cold. As soon as you catch yourself thinking something along those lines, you tell yourself to “Stop!” You stop the thought and then you make that thought obedient to Christ.
How do you make it obedient to Christ? You replace the lie (because it is a lie) with God’s Truth. In this case since we’re dealing with fantasy type thoughts here, perhaps you could replace it with these verses:
Ephesians 3:20-21 Now to him who is able to do immeasurably more than all we ask or imagine, according to his power that is at work within us, to him be glory in the church and in Christ Jesus throughout all generations, for ever and ever! Amen.
Philippians 4:19 And my God will meet all your needs according to his glorious riches in Christ Jesus.
Matthew 6:31-33 So do not worry, saying, ‘What shall we eat?’ or ‘What shall we drink?’ or ‘What shall we wear?’ For the pagans run after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them. But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.
Philippians 4:13 I can do everything through him who gives me strength.
You don’t have to worry about remembering an entire verse or anything like that, as long as you get the point that God is trying to get across to you in the verse itself. So while it is best to be able to use the actual verses, you can at first simply replace the “bad” thought with something like, “God will meet all my needs, I don’t have to worry” until you’re able to actually recall the verses that the Lord gives you.
Do you understand the principal here? No matter what the thought is, it is a lie if it is causing you worry, fear, stress, depression etc.
1 John 4:16 And so we know and rely on the love God has for us. God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in him.
1 John 4:18 There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love.
Therefore what God is commanding us to do is to first stop the lies in their tracks as soon as we realize we are thinking them and then replace the lies with His truth. This is part of what the renewing of your mind is which Paul refers to in the following scriptures. His Word renews our minds daily as we read and study it with Him and as we replace our sinful thoughts with His Word.
Romans 12:2 Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will.
Ephesians 4:22-24 You were taught, with regard to your former way of life, to put off your old self, which is being corrupted by its deceitful desires; to be made new in the attitude of your minds; and to put on the new self, created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness.
The only thoughts you have to "take captive" are the ones that aren't true; The negative, false, the lies, etc. The thoughts you take captive are the ones that say things like:
God's abandoned me; God isn't going to rescue me or help me etc this time; God hates me; God doesn't care what's happening in my life right now; "If God doesn't help me now that means I've done something terrible to displease Him." "If I don't pay the bill I'll lose my house". "I'm going to wind up losing my house". "no one cares." " No one can or will help me." "I'm stupid". "I'm ugly" "I'm such a horrible sinner God couldn't possibly forgive me". "I keep sinning so that's why God is letting this happen." "God hates me". "God only cares about my spiritual life not my physical life". "I can't stop sinning so why bother trying". "I can't stop sinning so I must not be saved." "Why me." "I've been good so why do I have to suffer? God isn't fair!" "I don't know what to do, the Lord never speaks to me" "I can't hear or understand what He is telling me to do". "I can't"
The negative "what ifs" thoughts and fantasies as well as any sinful "what if" thoughts and fantasies.
Fantasizing about things you know are sinful or that could lead you into sin; Fantasizing about things you have no control over to the point that they upset and worry you.
It is one thing to consider what you would do "if something happened", but quite another thing to allow yourself to fantasize over and over about "bad things" happening and how it would affect you since you have no control of those things at all and it goes against the commands of God not to do that. He tells us outright not to worry about tomorrow; that He is in control and we are to trust Him. Therefore when we do this, we are sinning and the root of that sin or at least one of the roots is a lack of faith and trust in God and a lack of belief that He loves you and will care for you and help you.
These are the kinds of thoughts that we are to "stop" and "take captive". All other thoughts we can allow to continue.
As you can tell by the examples, I've had a lot of experience in thinking those kind of thoughts and could give another dozen examples easily.
Stopping the thoughts and taking them captive is work. I'm not going to kid you about that. The alternative though is to continue to be worry, be angry, upset, stressed and depressed and to continue to allow your emotions and thoughts to control you rather then controlling them the way our Lord wants us to.
I can tell you though what will happen when you start to do this.
At first you won't realize that you're having the thoughts until they're completed and you're starting to worry etc. At that point you'll stop them and make them captive. As time goes on and you continue to practice this daily, you'll start to recognize those kind of thoughts sooner and quicker until eventually--(this usually takes months though) you'll realize they're starting practically before the first "word" of the thought is formed! Again you'll continue to stop it and take it captive.
As more time goes by and you continue to do this daily, you'll begin to realize that these kind of thoughts are occurring less and less frequently too. It's almost like when you start you're in the middle of a flood of them, and by this time, the flood is down to a trickle. This is very encouraging and shows you how much progress you've made! You'll see by this too that you're actually not worrying, or fearful or depressed much anymore either! It's amazing!
Lest someone think that this is the same or similar to "positive thinking", it really is not! The key here is God's Word! At the same time that you're striving to stop and take these thoughts captive, you need to be in His Word and using His Word to replace them with. Your words won't help, His Words will!
I know I told you that at first it was OK to "paraphrase" and use your own words and it is, but you should make every attempt to immediately or as soon as possible, get to your bible and find what His Word really says and use that instead of your own words. Write it down because you'll surely need that Word again!
So you can see too that stopping your thoughts in their tracks when they're negative and not true, and replacing them with God's Truth, not only is being obedient to the Lord but it helps you know His Word, and can make your relationship with Him closer too.
We all pretty well know what our thought patterns are and where our weakness are as well as our sins. Plus all we have to do is ask the Lord for help and He will show us and show us where in His Word the Truth is to combat those thoughts and sins.
I would suggest however that to start you first pray asking the Lord for help, then go through your bible with His help and write down those verses that are most applicable to your thoughts. That way you'll have your ammunition ready when those thoughts come and you won't be fumbling for your gun.
I'll list some of the ones I've used and some I still use which might help everyone get started, but as I said, the best way is to ask the Lord to help you and then write down those you need the most to get started with. Once you have the hang of it though, don't just rely on those verses you start with, dig into His Word and find more! When you're reading His Word in your regular reading time, and you see one that you know will help, stop and write it down too. It won't be long before you'll have so many that you won't know what to do with them all and that will show you even more just how "wrong" and sinful those thoughts we are stopping are, and just how loving and caring our God is toward us! (by the way, you don't have to worry about remembering the chapter and verse etc, for this, just the words themselves)
Ok here are some to get you started:
2 Corinthians 5:7 We live by faith, not by sight.
1 Peter 5:7 Cast all your anxiety on him because he cares for you.
1 Corinthians 1:8 He will keep you strong to the end, so that you will be blameless on the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.
1 Corinthians 1:9 God, who has called you into fellowship with his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, is faithful.
2 Corinthians 1:21 Now it is God who makes both us and you stand firm in Christ. He anointed us,
2 Corinthians 1:24 .... it is by faith you stand firm.
Psalm 34:4 I sought the Lord, and he answered me; he delivered me from all my fears.
Psalm 103:10 he does not treat us as our sins deserve or repay us according to our iniquities.
Psalm 103:11 For as high as the heavens are above the earth, so great is his love for those who fear him;
Psalm 103:12 as far as the east is from the west, so far has he removed our transgressions from us.
Psalm 103:13 As a father has compassion on his children, so the Lord has compassion on those who fear him;
2 Corinthians 12:9 But he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ’s power may rest on me.
1 Peter 5:10 And the God of all grace, who called you to his eternal glory in Christ, after you have suffered a little while, will himself restore you and make you strong, firm and steadfast.
Isaiah 48:17 This is what the Lord says— your Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel: “I am the Lord your God, who teaches you what is best for you, who directs you in the way you should go.
2 Corinthians 4:8-9 We are hard pressed on every side, but not crushed; perplexed, but not in despair; persecuted, but not abandoned; struck down, but not destroyed.
2 Corinthians 4:17-18 For our light and momentary troubles are achieving for us an eternal glory that far outweighs them all. So we fix our eyes not on what is seen, but on what is unseen. For what is seen is temporary, but what is unseen is eternal.
Psalm 27:13 I am still confident of this: I will see the goodness of the Lord in the land of the living.
Isaiah 46:3-4 ....you whom I have upheld since you were conceived, and have carried since your birth.
Isaiah 46:4 Even to your old age and gray hairs I am he, I am he who will sustain you. I have made you and I will carry you; I will sustain you and I will rescue you.
1 Corinthians 14:33 For God is not the author of confusion but of peace,
Philippians 4:13 I can do everything through him who gives me strength.
Philippians 4:19 And my God will meet all your needs according to his glorious riches in Christ Jesus.
Hebrews 13:5 ...God has said, “Never will I leave you; never will I forsake you.”
Psalm 86:5 You are forgiving and good, O Lord, abounding in love to all who call to you.
Deuteronomy 31:6 Be strong and courageous. Do not be afraid or terrified because of them, for the Lord your God goes with you; he will never leave you nor forsake you.”
Matthew 6:33-34 But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well. Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.
Luke 12:24-26 Consider the ravens: They do not sow or reap, they have no storeroom or barn; yet God feeds them. And how much more valuable you are than birds! Who of you by worrying can add a single hour to his life? Since you cannot do this very little thing, why do you worry about the rest?
Luke 21:14 But make up your mind not to worry beforehand how you will defend yourselves.
Luke 21:34 “Be careful, or your hearts will be weighed down with dissipation, drunkenness and the anxieties of life, and that day will close on you unexpectedly like a trap.
Hebrews 12:2 Let us fix our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy set before him endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.
Hebrews 12:3-4 Consider him who endured such opposition from sinful men, so that you will not grow weary and lose heart. In your struggle against sin, you have not yet resisted to the point of shedding your blood.
Jeremiah 29:11 For I know the plans I have for you,” declares the Lord, “plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future.
Zephaniah 3:17 The Lord your God is with you, he is mighty to save. He will take great delight in you, he will quiet you with his love, he will rejoice over you with singing.”
Matthew 10:19-20 ...... do not worry about what to say or how to say it. At that time you will be given what to say, for it will not be you speaking, but the Spirit of your Father speaking through you.
Isaiah 43:1-2 But now, this is what the Lord says— he who created you, O Jacob, he who formed you, O Israel: “Fear not, for I have redeemed you; I have summoned you by name; you are mine. When you pass through the waters, I will be with you; and when you pass through the rivers, they will not sweep over you. When you walk through the fire, you will not be burned; the flames will not set you ablaze.
Romans 8:37-39 No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Psalm 37:4 Delight yourself in the Lord and he will give you the desires of your heart.
Psalm 37:5-6 Commit your way to the Lord; trust in him and he will do this: He will make your righteousness shine like the dawn, the justice of your cause like the noonday sun.
Psalm 55:22 Cast your cares on the Lord and he will sustain you; he will never let the righteous fall.
Psalm 56:4 In God, whose word I praise, in God I trust; I will not be afraid. What can mortal man do to me?
Philippians 4:6-7 Do not be anxious about anything, but in everything, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God. And the peace of God, which transcends all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.
Matthew 10:29-31 Are not two sparrows sold for a penny? Yet not one of them will fall to the ground apart from the will of your Father. And even the very hairs of your head are all numbered. So don’t be afraid; you are worth more than many sparrows.
Ruth 4:15 He will renew your life and sustain you in your old age.
2 Corinthians 1:3-4 Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of compassion and the God of all comfort, who comforts us in all our troubles, so that we can comfort those in any trouble with the comfort we ourselves have received from God.
Psalm 44:3 It was not by their sword that they won the land, nor did their arm bring them victory; it was your right hand, your arm, and the light of your face, for you loved them.
Psalm 103:1-5 Of David. Praise the Lord, O my soul; all my inmost being, praise his holy name. Praise the Lord, O my soul, and forget not all his benefits— who forgives all your sins and heals all your diseases, who redeems your life from the pit and crowns you with love and compassion, who satisfies your desires with good things so that your youth is renewed like the eagle’s.
Remember, you don't have to worry about remembering the chapter and verse etc, for this, just the words themselves; and you don't have to use the entire verse or verses either, but just the part that pertains to your thoughts--as long as you're not taking it out of context. For example:
Isaiah 43:1-2 But now, this is what the Lord says— he who created you, O Jacob, he who formed you, O Israel: “Fear not, for I have redeemed you; I have summoned you by name; you are mine. When you pass through the waters, I will be with you; and when you pass through the rivers, they will not sweep over you. When you walk through the fire, you will not be burned; the flames will not set you ablaze.
In the above passage, you might just need to use this part:
I have summoned you by name; you are mine.
or maybe this part:
“Fear not, for I have redeemed you; I have summoned you by name; you are mine.
or whatever portion you need.
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Post by Cindy on Mar 24, 2016 12:55:22 GMT -5
Part 2:
While the answer the Lord gives us to combat the problems of worry, fear, depression, etc. isn't "easy" because it does involve actual work on our part and actually taking responsibility for ourselves and our thoughts and emotions, it does work! I know that for a fact from His Word which we know is infallible and from my own personal experience. The more you put into it, the more you'll get out of it and the more emotionally, mentally, and spiritually healthy you will be.
Now that we understand that the renewing of our minds is something that we do in obedience to God’s command to put off our old self’s and be made new in the attitudes of our minds.
Ephesians 4:22-27 You were taught, with regard to your former way of life, to put off your old self, which is being corrupted by its deceitful desires; to be made new in the attitude of your minds; and to put on the new self, created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness. Therefore each of you must put off falsehood and speak truthfully to his neighbor, for we are all members of one body. “In your anger do not sin”: Do not let the sun go down while you are still angry, and do not give the devil a foothold.
The Lord gives us the ability to do this and the strength and self discipline to do it.
2 Timothy 1:7 For God did not give us a spirit of timidity, but a spirit of power, of love and of self-discipline.
Of course, as with everything else, we must ask His help and trust in Him to give us that help. Like everything else in His Word though, He wouldn’t tell us to do something without giving us the ability to do it.
I wanted to share another verse with you too that speaks to this idea of “thought control”.
Ephesians 4:29-30 Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen. And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.
We already know that before we speak a word verbally the thought must already be in our minds. Therefore if we are not to allow unwholesome talk, then we must also stop the unwholesome thoughts, correct?
To further show that this is indeed what the Lord intends, please look at this next verse which I’m sure we’re all very familiar with. However we don’t usually look at it in connection with this:
Matthew 5:27-28 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Do not commit adultery.’ But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
What is involved for a man to look at a woman lustfully? (Or for a woman to look at a man lustfully?) What is behind it? Thoughts are behind it! It’s what the man or woman is thinking that is the sin! So here, Jesus is telling us to control our thoughts and not just our actions!
Please look back up at Ephesians 4:29-30 now. Notice the last line which says, “and do not grieve the Holy Spirit”. Sin grieves the Holy Spirit. Thoughts that are lies and contrary to God’s Truth are sins. They are thoughts expressing our doubts about God, about His love for us, His willingness to help us, or His ability to, etc. These kind of thoughts that God wants us to control are sins.
That thought alone made me feel just awful when I first realized it. Oh I knew that I was a sinner and that I sinned every day, but I didn’t realize to just what extent I was sinning. When I finally realized it, it just crushed me. And that’s what it’s supposed to do! When the Lord reveals sin in our lives to us, He doesn’t do it to just make us feel bad; He does it so that we will repent (turn away from it) and not do it anymore. (or at least put forth the effort not to do it anymore)
2 Corinthians 7:9-10 yet now I am happy, not because you were made sorry, but because your sorrow led you to repentance. For you became sorrowful as God intended and so were not harmed in any way by us. Godly sorrow brings repentance that leads to salvation and leaves no regret, but worldly sorrow brings death.
When we feel that godly sorrow, it causes us to want to do everything we can to not repeat that sin. God sees and hears that and He responds both by forgiving us and helping us overcome it.
Psalm 51:17 The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit; a broken and contrite heart, O God, you will not despise.
Lastly let’s take one more look at the first passage I posted today from Ephesians 4:22-27. Again, notice the last line in that passage: “do not give the devil a foothold”. When we allow those thoughts to continue without stopping them, we are giving Satan a foothold in our lives. He uses those thoughts to make us ineffective Christians and to prevent us from living a life of victory in Christ.
The Lord has no desire for us to be depressed, worried and all stressed out. He can’t use us when we’re like that, but more then that, He loves us and doesn’t like to see us hurting like that! Do you remember what Jesus said He came to us for?
John 10:10 The thief does not come except to steal, and to kill, and to destroy. I have come that they may have life, and that they may have it more abundantly.
If you think about all the kinds of thoughts we listed before as the type we need to stop and bring into the obedience of Christ, what kind of attributes to they have? They’re negative, and they destroy our peace, our relationship with the Lord and they destroy our very lives! That alone should more then give us a clue that they are not from God but from Satan! That’s Satan’s job description! Our Lord came for the opposite reason though. He came to save us and to give us a full life here and now—a life full of His love, peace and joy! Our Lord doesn’t tell us that hard work and strict observance of His rules is our strength, He tells us that His joy is our strength!
As we replace those bad thoughts with the Truth from His Word, and spend time reading and studying His Word daily, our minds are renewed and we can finally begin to experience an abundant life of victory in Christ full of the joy of the Lord. That, my friends, is what our Lord wants for us!
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Post by Cindy on Mar 24, 2016 12:57:43 GMT -5
Part 3:
I think most of the time it's our flesh that causes us to begin to worry or fear and then when we continue to feed it, Satan then steps in and eggs us on. I say that because the Bible says:
James 1:13-15 When tempted, no one should say, “God is tempting me.” For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone; but each one is tempted when, by his own evil desire, (when we have a desire, good or bad, it is preceded by a thought) he is dragged away and enticed. Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death.
Since Satan can't hear our thoughts, he can't be the instigator at least at first. So it's our own sin nature, our flesh that starts the cycle. The first bad thought starts the cycle. When it's not stopped, each subsequent thought entices us to continue in the sinful thoughts and we are once again slaves to sin instead of being free in Christ. Once we've begun the sinful inner dialog, most of us tend to eventually speak some of it out loud, whether we're telling a friend or whatever. Plus Satan and his demons can observe our behavior and generally things like this don't just happen once, they happen over and over. It's actually a besetting sin. So when the enemy sees us becoming discouraged, worried, depressed etc. he knows it's because of our thoughts, so he and his demons encourage us to continue in those sinful thoughts, egging us on. Depending on how worried, or depressed we are, will determine if we fall for it or not. Obviously the more worried or depressed we are, the deeper we are in that sin so the easier it is for the enemy to keep us there. This is one of the things Paul is talking about here:
Romans 6:16-23 Don’t you know that when you offer yourselves to someone to obey him as slaves, you are slaves to the one whom you obey—whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness? But thanks be to God that, though you used to be slaves to sin, you wholeheartedly obeyed the form of teaching to which you were entrusted. You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness.
I put this in human terms because you are weak in your natural selves. Just as you used to offer the parts of your body in slavery to impurity and to ever-increasing wickedness, so now offer them in slavery to righteousness leading to holiness. When you were slaves to sin, you were free from the control of righteousness. What benefit did you reap at that time from the things you are now ashamed of? Those things result in death! But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves to God, the benefit you reap leads to holiness, and the result is eternal life. For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
You see, we're being obedient to God when we take our thoughts captive and replace them with His Truth, so that leads to righteousness, as the above scripture says. Why does it though?.
First because we have to study and know God's Word in order to use it. Just as Jesus rebuked Satan with His Word, so do we. Remember when Jesus was tempted for 40 days and how He always answered the temptations with "it is written"? Here's one of His replies:
Matthew 4:4 Jesus answered, “It is written: ‘Man does not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.’”
The better we know God's Word, the better we know God and the closer we become to Him especially if we are spending time in prayer as well. And spending time in prayer is essential to this too since we need His help to find the right verses to fight the thoughts with.
So it's kind of like a circle here too. The better we know God and His Word, the better able we are to put an end to the sinful lies in our minds. The more we put an end to those sinful lies, the better we will know God and the closer to Him we'll become. So because of that, it leads to holiness, righteousness, and maturity in Christ. See what I mean?
When we have that first sinful thought, the only way it can continue is if we feed it. We feed it by giving it more sinful thoughts/words which produce the emotion in us that Satan then uses to egg us on to feed it more and more. The sin cannot survive and cannot continue unless we feed it!
Just as sin cannot continue without being fed, so we cannot grow in our faith without being fed. God tells us right up front that we can't live on just bread for out bodies. If we try to, we will die spiritually. We will starve ourselves to death. When we don't read/study God's Word daily, we are not feeding our spiritual selves.
We tend to not think much of it if we skip a day of reading God's Word or reflecting on it, yet each time we do that, we are quite literally starving ourselves. Because we don't feel it physically like we do when it's physical hunger, we ignore it to our own peril. We are told once we are saved:
2 Peter 3:18 But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and forever! Amen.
The only way that can be done is by renewing our minds daily with His Word which feeds us and gives us the strength we need to continue on each day. Just as sin can't grow without being fed, righteousness also can't grow without being fed.
The neat thing about overcoming these sinful thoughts is that the more we do this, stopping them and replacing them with God's Word, eventually we will be in control and the sinful thoughts won't come as often or as forcefully anymore. Eventually even when they do happen, our response will be so automatic that it will hardly take any thought or effort at all to do. Basically, by obeying God in this, we are forming a new habit of righteous thinking to replace the old habit of sinful thinking.
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Post by Cindy on Mar 24, 2016 13:01:38 GMT -5
Part 4:
Philippians 4:4-9 Rejoice in the Lord always. I will say it again: Rejoice! Let your gentleness be evident to all. The Lord is near. Do not be anxious about anything, but in everything, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God. And the peace of God, which transcends all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus. Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things. Whatever you have learned or received or heard from me, or seen in me—put it into practice. And the God of peace will be with you.
Today, I’d like all of us to really look closely at the passage above and reflect on it. When Paul wrote this to the Philippians, they weren’t having an easy time of it. Times were hard and their lives were filled with stress, worry and fear. This is the Lord’s prescription for that condition. He not only tells us what we need to do and why, but also what He will do in return when we are obedient.
Let’s start at the beginning then. He says to rejoice in the Lord always. This means in the midst of severe trials, illness, fear, worry, depression or whatever, we are to rejoice in the Lord.
How do we do that and what exactly does it mean? For starters it doesn’t mean that we need to rejoice that the “bad thing” is happening. Instead, we should rejoice that we know the Lord and that our Lord is with us and will help us overcome it, or depending on the circumstances, that He will work the situation out for our good because we are called by Him, or something along those lines. It’s pretty much the same thing, of replacing whatever the situation is with God’s Truth and rejoicing in Him for that Truth.
The next sentence is to let your gentleness be evident to all. That almost seems out of place in this passage doesn’t it? But if you think about it a minute, you’ll realize that when we are feeling worry, fear, depression, stress etc. that whether we recognize it or not, anger is also often present. Now when you think of anger or stress or those other emotions, they just don’t go together with gentleness. Not even depression, because with depression we’ve gone to the extreme of not caring about anyone or anything and only thinking of ourselves. For our gentleness to be evident to all, we must think of others and how they view us. Can you imagine gentleness being joined with anger? Or Stress? I sure can’t! Here he is showing us the kind of spirit we are to aim for. He says it more outright here:
Ephesians 4:2 Be completely humble and gentle; be patient, bearing with one another in love.
Next he assures us that the Lord is near. He is telling us that the Lord is perfectly aware of our problems, and of our situation. He knows our thoughts and our struggles. He is not far away, but is instead near to us. He wants us to remember that and to know that our prayers, aren’t going a long distance to be heard, but are heard instantly by the One who is near us and will never leave us.
Next he tells us: Do not be anxious about anything, but in everything, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God. Let’s look and see exactly what he’s talking about here. The dictionary says anxious means to be characterized by extreme uneasiness of mind or brooding fear about some contingency. Related words would be scared, worried, terrified, apprehensive, upset, uneasy, troubled, frightened, agitated, jittery. Sound familiar?
We are told that we are not to allow those emotions but instead of them, or when we know those emotions may try to break through, and even to prevent them from happening, we are to take everything to God in prayer—but not just pray for what we want but with thanksgiving! That goes right back to his very first sentence: rejoice in the Lord always! So we take the problem/situation/concern to God in prayer and ask Him to take care of it for us. Then we thank Him for taking care of it for us. We can do that because we know from His Word that He will hear our prayers and that He will answer and that His answer will always be to work everything for our good. Then we rejoice in Him, that He loves us, saved us, is concerned for us, takes care of us, is always thinking of us…etc.
Paul tells us that when we do that then, the peace of God, which transcends all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus. Really look at that sentence. He is saying that when we trust God to do what He promised when we take our concerns to Him, then God’s peace will actually guard our hearts and our minds! His peace will protect us from those sinful kinds of thoughts/emotions. Talking to God about everything that concerns us and Him is the 1st step toward victory over worry. That's because we're not praying with doubt or discontentment, we're praying in faith and in a spirit of thanksgiving. The original word that is translated “guard” means to hem in, to protect and keep with a garrison (a garrison is a military fortified post), to mount a sentinel, to watch for in advance. Notice that the peace of God guards our minds and hearts (thoughts and feelings) through Christ. Jesus is our fortress. Jesus has saved us from all of our sins, past, present and future, and has not only taken away our sins, but has also removed our guilt and shame. That's why His peace can guard our thoughts and feelings. MacArthur explains it better than I can: " Inner calm or tranquility is promised to the believer who has a thankful attitude based on unwavering confidence that God is able and willing to do what is best for His children."
Finally Paul gives us more ammunition to use against the sinful thoughts when he says: Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things. Obviously we can’t just think of “nothing”, so he tells us what we should have in our minds. This is also a guide for us to use to determine if a thought is sinful or if it’s something we should be thinking on. Using this as our guide, we can’t go wrong and there is no confusion. Spend time reflecting on this verse—what it is saying and what each of words means.
Last of all Paul ends this passage with this: Whatever you have learned or received or heard from me, or seen in me—put it into practice. And the God of peace will be with you. Obviously we can’t have learned or received anything from Paul if we don’t study God’s Word, so this again shows how important that is. Just as important however is that next bit: put it into practice! We cannot expect God’s peace to guard us if we’re not willing to obey and put into practice the things God tells us to do. But, if we do put it into practice then God will be with us and He is the God of peace.
So we’re not in this alone! God will help us! In fact He wants to help us. He longs to help us! He won’t do the work for you however. Just as we aren’t helping our children if we do their schoolwork for them, since then they won’t have learned anything, so He really wouldn’t be helping us if He did the work for us. If we do though, then He rewards us by guarding our hearts and minds. The more we practice His ways, the stronger that guard becomes. I can speak of this through personal experience. It is more then worth the effort my friends!
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Post by Cindy on Mar 24, 2016 13:04:53 GMT -5
Part 5:
God's ways of dealing with stress, fear, worry, anxiety and depression that I talked about in this study are exactly what has enabled me to not just "get through" the last year and a half, but has enabled me to go through it without anxiety and with great joy! Most of you know that my husband, Bruce, has been laid off for 16 months now and was about to lose his unemployment benefits in a couple of weeks. He heard about a possible job opening yesterday afternoon and went there this morning to apply for the job. He just called me and he got it!!! It's "local", just in the next town up from us so it will only take him about 20 mins to get to work each day. He's going to be working on a horse farm which is owned by an old friend of his! This is really great because the work won't be as hard on his back as the construction was. He's really getting too old for construction work anyway. But he loves working outdoors so this will be perfect for him! (but then God always gives us perfect gifts!)
James 1:17 Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows.
But that's only half of the praise report! The other half is that the Lord carried both of us through these last 16 months, keeping us calm and keeping us from being stressed out about it. We've always lived from pay check to pay check so we had no savings to rely on. But the Lord covered our bills every single month somehow so that even now the only bills that we are behind on are hospital bills. (and that's my fault, not the Lord's... I could have gotten them on a payment plan but simply didn't bother. I did that with the ones from the doctors, but the hospitals billing dept for the lab, xrays, etc was just so obnoxious that I decided they'd be the last thing I'd pay) The Lord always even made sure we had money to get our 9 grandchildren birthday and Christmas gifts! He even provided for us to loan our children money occasionally when they needed it!
I know that this would be wonderful for anyone, but because in the past financial security was very important to me, the fact that the Lord got us through these last 16 months this way, depending solely on Him for our finances, was a real miracle! He has taught me so much and this has been like a "final exam" for me to see if I would truly trust Him. There is NO way that I could have handled this before I was saved. There was no way I could have handled this even two years ago. If the Lord hadn't made sure that I had grown enough in Him to face this, I would have fallen flat on my face and probably been in a psych ward within the first 6 months easily and it probably would have been the end of our marriage.
In the past I would have been anxious, worried, tense, scared to death, angry, and full of fear, but the Lord helped me keep my mind focused on Him so that instead I felt calm about it. I did have some moments when I'd go to Him and tell Him that I just didn't see how we could possibly keep on going; or tell Him that I really couldn't handle much more, and each time I did, He would comfort and encourage me and most important, He would strengthen me.
Because of Him, and only because of Him, I was able to stand firm in faith these last 16 months and I'm so very grateful to Him! I can say from personal experience that these verses are indeed true and that God's way of dealing with worry, fear, anxiety, stress and depression really work! I hadn't thought of it before, but this is a picture of how the peace of God guards our hearts and minds in Christ.
If we will be obedient to Him and simply take that first step each day and study His Word and apply it to our lives, then He is always faithful and merciful to help us, encourage us and strengthen us so that we can have the kind of victorious life He wants for us to have. No, I don't mean that we won't have trials...but instead, we will be not just happy, but full of joy in spite of those trials! Satan loses big time when we are obedient to God and when we're obedient, we then experience the abundant life that Christ died to give us!
Romans 14:4 .... And he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.
Isaiah 26:3 You will keep in perfect peace him whose mind is steadfast, because he trusts in you.
Philippians 4:6-9 Do not be anxious about anything, but in everything, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God. And the peace of God, which transcends all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus. Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things. Whatever you have learned or received or heard from me, or seen in me—put it into practice. And the God of peace will be with you.
Philippians 4:12-13 I know what it is to be in need, and I know what it is to have plenty. I have learned the secret of being content in any and every situation, whether well fed or hungry, whether living in plenty or in want. I can do everything through him who gives me strength.
Philippians 4:19 And my God will meet all your needs according to his glorious riches in Christ Jesus.
1 Peter 1:3-7 Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, and into an inheritance that can never perish, spoil or fade—kept in heaven for you, who through faith are shielded by God’s power until the coming of the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time. In this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while you may have had to suffer grief in all kinds of trials. These have come so that your faith—of greater worth than gold, which perishes even though refined by fire—may be proved genuine and may result in praise, glory and honor when Jesus Christ is revealed.
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Post by Cindy on Mar 26, 2016 11:02:03 GMT -5
Part 6:
You know, for many who have been born again, there are several words they really don't want to hear about, and not many pastors preach about these things today for that very reason. We've all been taught that salvation is a free gift from God with no strings attached, and so it is. When we hear a pastor or anyone start to preach about being obedient to God, the first thought many of us have is "that's being legalistic and I don't have to pay attention to this". So even those pastors who do dare to preach the whole bible, are often tuned out as soon as they utter that nasty word, "obey".
Obedience isn't about being legalistic however, or at least it need not be. Obedience is only legalistic when you are following a command because you think that by doing so you'll get into heaven and by not doing so, you won't.
For those who are born again though, obedience is a matter of love, of wanting to please our Lord. We obey Him because we recognize all He has done for us, and count it a very small service we can do Him in return because we love Him. Let's see too what Jesus says about obedience:
John 15:1-8 “I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes so that it will be even more fruitful. You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you. Remain in me, and I will remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me. “I am the vine; you are the branches. If a man remains in me and I in him, he will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. If anyone does not remain in me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned. If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be given you. This is to my Father’s glory, that you bear much fruit, showing yourselves to be my disciples.
John 15:9-14 “As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Now remain in my love. If you obey my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have obeyed my Father’s commands and remain in his love. I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and that your joy may be complete. My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you. Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends. You are my friends if you do what I command.
Let me just say that He is not saying that if we don't obey Him that we will lose our salvation, He is simply saying that if we are abiding in Him we will obey Him. It is only when we are not abiding in Him that we don't obey Him. By abiding in Him I'm referring to being in constant communion with Him; living for Him rather then ourselves; to cleave, cling, remain with Him all the time, not just on Sundays and not just when we open our bibles. I have to laugh because I checked the dictionary definition of the word and one of the synonyms was "to hang out with". While that's kind of funny on the one hand, it's also a very accurate description of what abiding in Him means for us.
So as long as we're "hanging out with" Jesus, our joy will be complete and we will be obedient, not because we "have to" but because we want to. It's only when we are separated from Him, when we've pushed Him off into some corner of our mind where we can ignore Him (or try to anyway) that obedience becomes a dirty word. By the way, when I speak about our joy, I'm not talking about the kind of joy the world has or that we had before our salvation. Our joy is often a quiet joy that's always deep inside us. It can flare up and make us feel like we're going to burst because we're so full of joy. For me that often will happen when I'm in prayer, and when it does, I have to worship our Lord.
What I'd like to discuss for a bit is how and why our obedience is so important and just what God expects from us once we're saved as well as what He expects from us once He has given us the knowledge we need to do His Will in something, like overcoming these negative thoughts and feelings. I think you can see without too much effort how by being obedient and abiding in Him we can't fail to make use of the tools He has given us to overcome these negative thoughts and feelings. The reason I say that is because the more we make use of those tools He's given us, the more we will be abiding in Him, and the more we abide in Him, the more we will automatically make use of these tools.
Please feel free to ask any questions you might have though, either on this or on any part of this study. If you're having trouble with something, please let me know so that I can try and help you ok?
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Post by Cindy on Mar 26, 2016 11:07:15 GMT -5
Part 7:
I cannot begin to tell you how many times throughout both the old and new Testaments that God tells us to know His Word, to teach it to our children, to discuss it with each other, etc. He tells us it is to always be on our minds and in our hearts. There is simply no way to get around the fact that God's number one requirement or command to us after we are saved (besides spending time talking with Him) is to read and study His Word. There is nothing more important then this is, other then spending time with Him talking to Him, but that should be done while we are studying His Word too, not just separately.
I've heard people ask if it's so important, then what about people who live in the third world countries where Bibles aren't available. (Isn't it amazing how easily we can come up with excuses to not do something we're supposed to? The Lord will provide for them, and give them what they need. God has given us the amazing honor of having His Word easily available to everyone in our country. Those people who do not take advantage of being able to get a bible and read it, (especially since anyone can get a free Bible if they try, or at least read it online for free as well) will be judged for not knowing the things they should have known. God will judge those who live in a country that doesn't have Bibles in their language or else only has a small number of them, based on their circumstances. They won't be punished for what they couldn't help. But here in the US, there's no excuse for not knowing God's Word.
Just as in the parable of the Talents, God gives to each of us a different amount. Those of us living in the US could be considered like the man to whom He gave 5 Talents, while someone living in desperately poor country that either doesn't have Bibles available or else they're in short supply, could be considered like the man He gave one talent to. The question isn't why we got more or they got less, the question is what are we going to do with what we have? Will we be like the one that doubled what the Lord gave him, or will we take what He's given us (His Word) and bury it? Those who do not read, study and reflect on His Word are doing exactly that. They are burying the tremendous treasure they've been given as a gift by Him.
God's Word isn't just another book, and we don't read it just to accumulate knowledge. When we read and study His Word, and ask His help in understanding, it deepens our relationship with Him, and it changes us on the inside, making us more and more like Him every day. I'm not talking about changes that we make ourselves, like you might do when reading a "self help" book. No, these are changes made to us by God to conform us to His image.
So when we study His Word daily, it brings us into a deeper, closer relationship with Him, it strengthens us for whatever we have to face that day, like an immunization shot. It teaches us about God's Ways so that we will know what he expects of us, as well as know when we are going off the path. It trains us and equips us both for our life here and now and for our future life throughout eternity. Most importantly too, God's Word feeds the new nature that He gave us at our salvation. Without this spiritual food, our new nature becomes weak and impotent, but when we feed it ever day from God's Word, it becomes stronger and more capable and able to fend off the attacks of the enemy! It renews our minds each day giving us all we need so that we can discern what God's Will for us is, and enabling us to grow in grace.
Here are some verses for you to reflect on but after I post them I just want to add one final thing about this.
Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.
Deuteronomy 8:3 He humbled you, causing you to hunger and then feeding you with manna, which neither you nor your fathers had known, to teach you that man does not live on bread alone but on every word that comes from the mouth of the Lord.
2 Timothy 3:15-17 and how from infancy you have known the holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.
2 Peter 3:18 But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and forever! Amen.
Romans 12:1-2 Therefore, I urge you, brothers, in view of God’s mercy, to offer your bodies as living sacrifices, holy and pleasing to God—this is your spiritual act of worship. Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will.
When we study God's Word, we see lives or ordinary people totally transformed. We see how powerful God is and how He has worked in their lives. I know that when I read about all this a long long time ago, that I wanted that power in me. I didn't want to just be changed, I wanted to be transformed! Just as it says in the verse above from Romans, that transformation comes from renewing our minds every day and that only comes from reading, studying, and reflecting on God's Word in communion with Him every day! And with that last thought let me include a few more verses to reflect on this weekend:
1 Corinthians 4:20 For the kingdom of God is not a matter of talk but of power.
Ephesians 3:16-21 I pray that out of his glorious riches he may strengthen you with power through his Spirit in your inner being, so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith. And I pray that you, being rooted and established in love, may have power, together with all the saints, to grasp how wide and long and high and deep is the love of Christ, and to know this love that surpasses knowledge—that you may be filled to the measure of all the fullness of God. Now to him who is able to do immeasurably more than all we ask or imagine, according to his power that is at work within us, to him be glory in the church and in Christ Jesus throughout all generations, for ever and ever! Amen.
2 Corinthians 3:18 And we, who with unveiled faces all reflect the Lord’s glory, are being transformed into his likeness with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit.
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Post by Cindy on Mar 26, 2016 11:11:24 GMT -5
Part 8:
I have to add today's devotional for this study:
“Cast thy burden upon the Lord, and he shall sustain thee.”
— Psalm 55:22
Care, even though exercised upon legitimate objects, if carried to excess, has in it the nature of sin. The precept to avoid anxious care is earnestly inculcated by our Savior, again and again; it is reiterated by the apostles; and it is one which cannot be neglected without involving transgression: for the very essence of anxious care is the imagining that we are wiser than God, and the thrusting ourselves into his place to do for him that which he has undertaken to do for us. We attempt to think of that which we fancy he will forget; we labor to take upon ourselves our weary burden, as if he were unable or unwilling to take it for us.
Now this disobedience to his plain precept, this unbelief in his Word, this presumption in intruding upon his province, is all sinful. Yet more than this, anxious care often leads to acts of sin. He who cannot calmly leave his affairs in God’s hand, but will carry his own burden, is very likely to be tempted to use wrong means to help himself. This sin leads to a forsaking of God as our counselor, and resorting instead to human wisdom. This is going to the “broken cistern” instead of to the “fountain;” a sin which was laid against Israel of old.
Anxiety makes us doubt God’s lovingkindness, and thus our love to him grows cold; we feel mistrust, and thus grieve the Spirit of God, so that our prayers become hindered, our consistent example marred, and our life one of self-seeking. Thus want of confidence in God leads us to wander far from him; but if through simple faith in his promise, we cast each burden as it comes upon him, and are “careful for nothing” because he undertakes to care for us, it will keep us close to him, and strengthen us against much temptation. “Thou wilt keep him in perfect peace whose mind is stayed on thee, because he trusteth in thee.” Spurgeon, C. H. Morning and evening
This is a command:
Matthew 6:25-34 “Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or drink; or about your body, what you will wear. Is not life more important than food, and the body more important than clothes? Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not much more valuable than they? Who of you by worrying can add a single hour to his life? “And why do you worry about clothes? See how the lilies of the field grow. They do not labor or spin. Yet I tell you that not even Solomon in all his splendor was dressed like one of these. If that is how God clothes the grass of the field, which is here today and tomorrow is thrown into the fire, will he not much more clothe you, O you of little faith? So do not worry, saying, ‘What shall we eat?’ or ‘What shall we drink?’ or ‘What shall we wear?’ For the pagans run after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them. But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well. Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.
Philippians 4:6-9 Do not be anxious about anything, but in everything, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God. And the peace of God, which transcends all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus. Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things. Whatever you have learned or received or heard from me, or seen in me—put it into practice. And the God of peace will be with you.
1 Peter 5:7 Cast all your anxiety on him because he cares for you.
Here are some more verses about this:
Psalm 37:5-7 Commit your way to the Lord; trust in him and he will do this: He will make your righteousness shine like the dawn, the justice of your cause like the noonday sun. Be still before the Lord and wait patiently for him;
Isaiah 50:10 Who among you fears the Lord and obeys the word of his servant? Let him who walks in the dark, who has no light, trust in the name of the Lord and rely on his God.
Psalm 16:8-9 I have set the Lord always before me. Because he is at my right hand, I will not be shaken. Therefore my heart is glad and my tongue rejoices; my body also will rest secure,
Psalm 34:4-5 I sought the Lord, and he answered me; he delivered me from all my fears. Those who look to him are radiant; their faces are never covered with shame.
Psalm 56:3-4 When I am afraid, I will trust in you. In God, whose word I praise, in God I trust; I will not be afraid. What can mortal man do to me?
Proverbs 3:5-6 Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding; in all your ways acknowledge him, and he will make your paths straight.
This is what worry, anxiety etc do to us:
Matthew 13:22-23 The one who received the seed that fell among the thorns is the man who hears the word, but the worries of this life and the deceitfulness of wealth choke it, making it unfruitful. But the one who received the seed that fell on good soil is the man who hears the word and understands it. He produces a crop, yielding a hundred, sixty or thirty times what was sown.”
Don't let Satan win!
Worriers don't really pray; they may utter their anxieties & frustrations before God, but they do not really pray in faith with thanksgiving because they're not at peace with God. God is There in the Tough Times
“And the peace of God, which transcends all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.” (Philippians 4:7)
Philippians 4:7 promises inner calm or tranquility to the believer who prays with a thankful attitude. Notice it doesn’t promise what the answer to our prayers will be. “Surpasses all understanding,” refers to its divine origin. It transcends human intellect, analysis, & insight. No human counselor can give it to you as it’s a gift from God. The real challenge of Christian living is not to eliminate every uncomfortable circumstance from your life, but to trust the infinite, holy, sovereign, & powerful God in the midst of every situation. So accept that you live in a fallen world, & allow God to do His perfect work in you. & God will give you His peace as you confidently entrust yourself to His care. Truth for today
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Post by Cindy on Mar 26, 2016 11:15:37 GMT -5
Part 9:
OK, I give up! I don't think God wants us to "leave" this study yet. Now that I think of it, it really is the foundation of everything for when we are saved, God gives us this new nature, but we MUST work with it to renew our minds daily, constantly, or it does us no good and we don't grow. So let me post one of today's devotionals and then I'll come back and write some more later after I've prayed. Oh and please check out the thread in Christian Chat about what we should think about!
The never-failing God
For He hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee. Hebrews 13:5.
What line does my thought take? Does it turn to what God says or to what I fear? Am I learning to say not what God says, but to say something after I have heard what He says? “He hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee. So that we may boldly say, The Lord is my helper, and I will not fear what man shall do unto me.”
“I will in no wise fail thee”—not for all my sin and selfishness and stubbornness and waywardness. Have I really let God say to me that He will never fail me? If I have listened to this say-so of God’s, then let me listen again.
“Neither will I in any wise forsake thee.” Sometimes it is not difficulty that makes me think God will forsake me, but drudgery. There is no Hill Difficulty to climb, no vision given, nothing wonderful or beautiful, just the commonplace day in and day out—can I hear God’s say-so in these things?
We have the idea that God is going to do some exceptional thing, that He is preparing and fitting us for some extraordinary thing by and by, but as we go on in grace we find that God is glorifying Himself here and now, in the present minute. If we have God’s say-so behind us, the most amazing strength comes, and we learn to sing in the ordinary days and ways.
Chambers, O. (1993, c1935). My utmost for his highest
God’s say-so
He hath said . . . so that we may boldly say . . . Hebrews 13:5-6.
My say-so is to be built on God’s say-so. God says—“I will never leave thee,” then I can with good courage say—“The Lord is my helper, I will not fear”—I will not be haunted by apprehension. This does not mean that I will not be tempted to fear, but I will remember God’s say-so. I will be full of courage, like a child ‘bucking himself up’ to reach the standard his father wants. Faith in many a one falters when the apprehensions come, they forget the meaning of God’s say-so, forget to take a deep breath spiritually. The only way to get the dread taken out of us is to listen to God’s say-so.
What are you dreading? You are not a coward about it, you are going to face it, but there is a feeling of dread. When there is nothing and no one to help you, say—‘But the Lord is my Helper, this second, in my present outlook.’ Are you learning to say things after listening to God, or are you saying things and trying to make God’s word fit in?
Get hold of the Father’s say-so, and then say with good courage —“I will not fear.” It does not matter what evil or wrong may be in the way, He has said—“I will never leave thee.”
Frailty is another thing that gets in between God’s say-so and ours. When we realize how feeble we are in facing difficulties, the difficulties become like giants, we become like grasshoppers, and God becomes a nonentity. Remember God’s say-so—“I will in no wise fail you.” Have we learned to sing after hearing God’s key-note? Are we always possessed with the courage to say—“The Lord is my helper,” or are we succumbing?
Chambers, O. (1993, c1935). My utmost for his highest
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Post by Cindy on Mar 26, 2016 11:40:15 GMT -5
Part 10:
John 15:4 Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me.
The above verse is telling us what we've said before. God is not going to magically turn you into something that you're not. Before we were saved, we formed habits and formed our characters by the things we thought about. It's a lot like a computer and the current saying, "If you input garbage, you're going to output garbage." Or as the Bible says:
Proverbs 23:7 For as he thinketh in his heart, so is he
When we are born again, God gives us a wonderful new nature. I remember the moment I was born again...I remember thinking that I felt "brand new" and so I was. It's like getting a fresh start. God wipes away all your past and says, "Ok, now you can start over and make something new that's good". So along with our eternal salvation, God gives us the chance to start over fresh and make our lives what they should be instead of what they were.
Like any good parent, He doesn't do the work for us though. Instead, He gives us the tools to use and the directions on how to use them. (they're all found in His Word, the Bible) Again, like a good parent, when He sees that we are not doing what He asks of us, then He disciplines us and He allows us to experience the consequences of our actions (or more likely, our "inactions" to use the tools He's given us.)
Over and over and over we are told to "abide" in Jesus, to "remain" in Him, to "hold to" His teachings. What does that mean? All of these are talking about our relationship with Him once we're saved. We need to nurture that relationship and grow it, and this is where so many of us fall down. Jesus is to be the focus of our lives, not something boxed away and pulled out when we think we need Him. Everything we think, do, and say should be focused on Him. There is only one way we can do that, and that's through constantly being in communion with Him.
Now please tell me how, if we are constantly in communion with Him, we can have thoughts of worry, doubt, fear, depression, etc? We can't! So it's really easy to see how much work we have to do on our relationship with Him, but how much of those kinds of thoughts and emotions we have to deal with on a day to day basis.
Now don't start to get down on yourself if you find your relationship with Him needs a lot of work. We've all been in that place at one time or another--every one of the apostles has been in that place at one time. This is where we learn to work out our salvation.
Philippians 2:12-13 Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed—not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence—continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in you to will and to act according to his good purpose.
No, that does not mean that we work "for" our salvation, but rather that we work as partners with God to change our lives into the kind of godly life He intended for us to have. God enables us to do this and He works with us to do it, but He will not do it for us. As the Bible Knowledge Commentary says, "Divine enablement and human responsibility are involved in doing God's work in us". It is our responsibility to obey God and use the tools He gives us. He enables us to do it, and then gives those tools divine power to change us and help us. But we first must obey and use them.
Now let's look at the next passage and bit of devotional:
2 Peter 1:5-7 For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge; and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; and to godliness, brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness, love.
Everything this devotional and the passage says, confirms what we were just talking about. Now though I'd like to take it one step further and really break down that passage to show you again that this is really something God expects of us.
The passage above starts out by saying "for this very reason" we are to do these things. What reason is that? Let's look at it in context to find out:
2 Peter 1:3-11 His divine power has given us everything we need for life and godliness through our knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and goodness. Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature and escape the corruption in the world caused by evil desires.
Did you get that??? God has given us everything we need so that we can live godly lives here and now. Where do we find these things? We find it "through our knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and goodness".!!! And where do we get that knowledge? Has it been magically planted in our sub consciousness? Of course not! He has given it to us in His Word! Not only that however, but this says that when we study His Word and learn it and really know it, then we can actually "participate in the divine nature and escape the corruption in the world caused by evil desires." In other words we are changed to be more and more like Him and enabled to live a godly life without the corruption of the evil thoughts and emotions caused by the world! An intimate full knowledge of Jesus and His Word is the source of our growth and spiritual power!
Then what does it say:
For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith goodness;
Faith is given to us by God, but once He has given that to us, He wants us to do certain things to support that faith. The word translated "add" actually means to "support" or even to "finance" something. He is telling us to put all we are and have into supporting our faith. We are not to ignore it and think that it's going to be fine left to it's own devices. Just as a plant needs water, as our bodies need food, so our faith needs certain things to support it so that it will be nourished and grow strong.
The first thing we're told to support our faith with is "goodness". The word translated "goodness" means literally moral excellency or virtue. In other words, it's not enough to just have the head knowledge of our faith, but we must also obey and live our faith.
Next we're told:
and to goodness, knowledge;
This isn't talking about worldly knowledge or intellectual pursuits. This is talking about spiritual knowledge. Now where do we get such knowledge from? Yes, again, from God's Word! This is why I say over and over again that just "reading" God's word isn't enough. We have to study it, and reflect on it, and most of all ask God to give us wisdom to understand it. (By the way, by "study", I do not mean that you must have a bunch of commentaries, dictionaries, or other books, or even one. All you need to "study" God's Word with Him, is you, your bible, and God.)
Then:
and to knowledge, self-control;
Self control! How often have we talked about that? It is by using self control that we take our thoughts captive and bring them into obedience to Christ! Now what's the main thing that we always find when we're dealing with taking our thoughts captive? It takes time, it takes practice and we can't give up. Oh Satan would just love it if we'd give up and he's going to encourage us to, so what do we need to use-the very next thing on the list:
and to self-control, perseverance;
We are told over and over in His Word to persevere. Being a Christian isn't easy, and anyone who ever said it was, didn't know what they were talking about! It requires work, self control and perseverance on our part. Thankfully we have the Lord to help us and to enable us to be victorious! Remember, we're not doing this on our own...we are using the self control and we are persevering because we are working together with God. This is a partnership. we are not alone! Not only that, but He tells us that we are "yoked together" like a team of horses would be. A yoke is a device used to link two animals together so that they will walk in step with each other. Jesus tells us that's how we are with Him when we are working on these things. But He also says that He is carrying the larger load, which is why we can be victorious!
Ok, then what do we add next:
and to perseverance, godliness;
Again, as we do these things we are being changed to be more and more like Him. We are nurturing our relationship with Him and we are becoming mature in Christ. This all leads to godliness, just as James says.
James 1:4 Perseverance must finish its work so that you may be mature and complete, not lacking anything.
Next we add:
and to godliness, brotherly kindness;
This too should begin to come naturally as we've worked on things. This isn't talking about how we feel toward others, it's talking about our actions. This is more having concern for others needs. Again it's acting our our faith and being obedient to God.
Finally we're told:
and to brotherly kindness, love.
The word translated "love" here is the agape type love. We are to love others the way God loves us. We aren't to just love those who are lovable, but to love even those who aren't. This is what God did for us when He sent Jesus. For when He sent Jesus, we were still sinners, we were His enemies. But because He loved us anyway, He sent Jesus and we were saved. Now He tells us that we are to strive to love others in this same way.
Now before we all start to say how impossible this is, let's remember again that we aren't doing this alone, we're doing it in partnership with God and He will enable us to be successful. I have to tell you though that before we are successful, we must first obey. In other words, we must put forth the effort to obey Him before He makes it possible for us to succeed. Obedience always comes before understanding and before success or victory.
To end this, I'd like to have us read the rest of that passage to find out why God wants us to have these qualities in ourselves:
For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. But if anyone does not have them, he is nearsighted and blind, and has forgotten that he has been cleansed from his past sins. Therefore, my brothers, be all the more eager to make your calling and election sure. For if you do these things, you will never fall, and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
Galatians 5:22-23 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.
What he is saying here is that Christian growth, is marked by those above qualities and they result in effectiveness and productivity. He is not saying that it's enough to simply have those qualities or characteristics, but rather that a Christian who is being obedient to God will see these characteristics in themselves always increasing.
2 Peter 1:9 But if anyone does not have them, he is nearsighted and blind, and has forgotten that he has been cleansed from his past sins.
A Christian who is not growing, is not being obedient to the Lord. The word translated unproductive means "unfruitful" as well. This should remind us of what the Lord said:
John 15:5-8 “I am the vine; you are the branches. If a man remains in me and I in him, he will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. If anyone does not remain in me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned. If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be given you. This is to my Father’s glory, that you bear much fruit, showing yourselves to be my disciples.
Do you see the connection here? Jesus didn't save us so we could just continue living our lives the way we always did. He wants us to grow to maturity in Him so we can be productive members of the family.
Much to our great shame and embarrassment though, many Christians, after they are saved, don't bother to pick up their bibles and study them. If they pick them up at all, it's just to read them a little. That is not what God wants from us.
1 Corinthians 3:1-3 Brothers, I could not address you as spiritual but as worldly—mere infants in Christ. I gave you milk, not solid food, for you were not yet ready for it. Indeed, you are still not ready. You are still worldly. For since there is jealousy and quarreling among you, are you not worldly? Are you not acting like mere men?
Here Paul is berating the Corinthians for doing just that, (although I'd be willing to bed that even those Corinthians had done a little more then many do now days!) He calls them "infants in Christ". They are not being obedient to the Lord and growing in their faith by studying and reflecting on His Word.
Hebrews 5:11-6:2 We have much to say about this, but it is hard to explain because you are slow to learn. In fact, though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you the elementary truths of God’s word all over again. You need milk, not solid food! Anyone who lives on milk, being still an infant, is not acquainted with the teaching about righteousness. But solid food is for the mature, who by constant use have trained themselves to distinguish good from evil. Therefore let us leave the elementary teachings about Christ and go on to maturity, not laying again the foundation of repentance from acts that lead to death, and of faith in God, instruction about baptisms, the laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment.
Here he says pretty much the same thing. Although here he defines more exactly what the difference is between those who are still infants in Christ and those who have been obedient and are becoming mature in Christ. I was pretty ashamed of myself when I read this and realized at the time that I was still an infant although I'd "read" the bible quite a bit. The fact is, I hadn't "studied" it and I didn't reflect on it or even apply it to my life much.
When we realize that, Satan's next move to to try and convince us that we're way too old to go back to school now. In other words he tries to get us to believe that since we haven't obeyed God in this in all these years since we've been saved, that there's little point to doing so now. Then his next move is to convince us that we "can't" learn, or that it will "take to long" or things like that. That's all bologna of course.
This is our Lord's command to all who have been born again:
1 Peter 2:2-3 Like newborn babies, crave pure spiritual milk, so that by it you may grow up in your salvation, now that you have tasted that the Lord is good.
2 Peter 3:18 But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and forever! Amen.
Pure spiritual milk is the Word of God! He is most definitely NOT telling us to go out and buy books that tell us what God has said about something, or what God is like. He is telling us to open our bibles, and read, study and reflect on the Word of God, with God Himself as our teacher!
John 14:26 But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.
John 16:13-15 But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. He will bring glory to me by taking from what is mine and making it known to you. All that belongs to the Father is mine. That is why I said the Spirit will take from what is mine and make it known to you.
1 Corinthians 2:10-12 but God has revealed it to us by his Spirit. The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man’s spirit within him? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us.
1 John 2:27 As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit—just as it has taught you, remain in him
Finally Peter says that if we are growing in the grace and knowledge of our Lord then:
2 Peter 1:10-11 Therefore, my brothers, be all the more eager to make your calling and election sure. For if you do these things, you will never fall, and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
Again, he is not saying that we have to work FOR our salvation but rather that we are to work it out--apply His Word, his commands, etc. to our lives. We are to grow in Christ; grow to maturity in Him. Those who refuse to do this, will not lose their salvation, but they also will not please the Lord. When they come face to face with the Lord that day, yes, He will love them, and they will be saved, but He will be very unhappy with them! I, for one, don't want that to happen. I want to meet him with joy and hear Him say, "Well done, good and faithful servant, enter into the joy of your Lord!" Those who have not been obedient and done all they could to grow to maturity in Him, won't be hearing that. Please...make sure that you are going to hear Him say that to you!
Finally please take a look at the last verse I posted yesterday for us to reflect on:
Galatians 5:22-23 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.
Do you see that all the things we've been talking about, that the Lord tells us to "add to our faith" are fruit of the spirit? This brings us back full circle once again and shows us that we are not in this alone. We are working together as partners with God and He is actually doing most of the work. (although to hear us whine, most often you'd think it was us LOL) Whenever we take a step forward in faith and obedience, He will bless us by both enabling us to grow and and giving us His divine power to do so. Plus, He always seems to throw in a little "surprise blessing" too, just as if to say, "thank you my child, for trying." What an awesome God we serve!
Ephesians 5:8-10 For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Live as children of light (for the fruit of the light consists in all goodness, righteousness and truth) and find out what pleases the Lord.
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383 
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Post by fearnot on Jul 19, 2021 10:52:09 GMT -5
I have read almost all of your first post, (part one) over again
( not all the following posts though)
I am still going thru the Bible verses,
( just the ones listed in the first post)
and I am about 1/2 way thru them,
I didn't want to just speed read thru them....
so I am reading them slowly this time.
( I am also writing some down on my pad of paper, and also posting some on FB)
I think when I first read this, I was totally focused on 'depression'
so although, I read about doubts and 'what IFS'
I did not give them a whole lot of attention, the first time I read this years ago,
and eventually even forgot you had included them,
as I was still focused only only on depression
(for a LONG time).
But this time re-reading,
I noticed
( and paid attention to)
the:
'what ifs', and 'doubts' etc.
( other than 'just' depression,
and taking thoughts captive).
Okay finished part one, onto reading part two!
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
|
Post by fearnot on Jul 20, 2021 12:39:32 GMT -5
I finished reading and taking notes on part two.
Re-reading your notes, reminds me of how it is when I read the Bible. I may have read a verse or passage 100 times over the years and decades.
When I first read it, depending on what was going on in my life, I focused on a certain aspect of the scripture,
but a decade later,
something else from the passage would really impact me.
It is like that a bit re-reading your posts.
One of the things in post 2 I kind of skimmed over, or it didn't really impact as much as the 2nd reading,
is how Jesus does not want us to wallow in depression, fear, doubt etc.
( I did kind of get that)
but rather....the part..... to be in His joy!
It's the 'joy' part...I did not firmly get.
So today will read part 3.
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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Post by fearnot on Jul 21, 2021 13:41:51 GMT -5
Read part 3,
and the thing that stood out to me this time,
was not just
that if you don't feed sinful thoughts they can't grow,
but that also,
righteousness also cannot grow unless,
unless, you feed it daily from the Word.
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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Post by fearnot on Jul 22, 2021 11:03:59 GMT -5
Read part 4
So there were several things I 'got' this time around.
I think when I read this before, I was (in a way),
almost speed reading over certain parts....
( I read them, but did not deeply reflect on them)
because,
I was looking for a 'quick fix',
out of depression (back then)...
so if it mentioned: 'What if's etc.....
(even though, that could cause depression),
if it did not 'specifically' say...depression,
I hurried over the words,
looking for words to deal ONLY with depression.....
and nothing else.
Anyway, one of the many things, that stood out for me 'now',
was:
the need to focus on gentleness,
because often, worry, fear, depression, doubt, what ifs, etc.
the truth is that anger is often present,
and there is no gentleness in anger.
( I.E. depression is all about self...
not about others!)
Also praying with thanks-giving...
that God hears our prayers,
He will answer...when we trust Him.
and give us peace,
and that peace itself will guard our hearts and minds.
Jesus is our fortress...
I looked at a bunch of medieval fortresses etc. images this time.
Also, it really hit me,
that the things God says we are to think of
( true, noble, admirable, pure, lovely, excellent, praiseworthy, etc.
Can be and are:
a guide...that we can use to determine
if a thought is a sinful thought or not...
there can be no confusion!!
I will re-read part 5 today
That really sunk in this time! :)
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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Post by fearnot on Jul 23, 2021 9:40:55 GMT -5
I found your personal experience uplifting....how God provided for you and Bruce for about a year and a half! And not just the bare necessities but even for all of your grandchildren's birthdays and Christmas!
That trials can really be proof of faith, peace, joy etc.
As Isaiah 26:3 says.
Today, I will re-read part 6
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Post by Cindy on Jul 24, 2021 9:22:07 GMT -5
I have read almost all of your first post, (part one) over again
( not all the following posts though)
I am still going thru the Bible verses,
( just the ones listed in the first post)
and I am about 1/2 way thru them,
I didn't want to just speed read thru them....
so I am reading them slowly this time.
You did read the short paragraph I posted just before those scriptures, right? Those were just starter scriptures to help the various people that were studying this at the time, as they each had different issues.
( I am also writing some down on my pad of paper, and also posting some on FB)
Are you using your thread for "notes" that I made for you in the counseling forum too? That thread is for anything you see anytime that you think is useful for you. You can even use it to save links if you want to.
I think when I first read this, I was totally focused on 'depression'
so although, I read about doubts and 'what IFS'
I did not give them a whole lot of attention, the first time I read this years ago,
and eventually even forgot you had included them,
as I was still focused only only on depression
(for a LONG time).
But this time re-reading,
I noticed
( and paid attention to)
the:
'what ifs', and 'doubts' etc.
( other than 'just' depression,
and taking thoughts captive).
Okay finished part one, onto reading part two! I finished reading and taking notes on part two.
Re-reading your notes, reminds me of how it is when I read the Bible. I may have read a verse or passage 100 times over the years and decades.
When I first read it, depending on what was going on in my life, I focused on a certain aspect of the scripture,
but a decade later,
something else from the passage would really impact me.
It is like that a bit re-reading your posts.
One of the things in post 2 I kind of skimmed over, or it didn't really impact as much as the 2nd reading,
is how Jesus does not want us to wallow in depression, fear, doubt etc.
( I did kind of get that)
but rather....the part..... to be in His joy!
It's the 'joy' part...I did not firmly get.
So today will read part 3.
Read part 3,
and the thing that stood out to me this time,
was not just
that if you don't feed sinful thoughts they can't grow,
but that also,
righteousness also cannot grow unless,
unless, you feed it daily from the Word. Read part 4
So there were several things I 'got' this time around.
I think when I read this before, I was (in a way),
almost speed reading over certain parts....
( I read them, but did not deeply reflect on them)
because,
I was looking for a 'quick fix',
out of depression (back then)...
so if it mentioned: 'What if's etc.....
(even though, that could cause depression),
if it did not 'specifically' say...depression,
I hurried over the words,
looking for words to deal ONLY with depression.....
and nothing else.
Anyway, one of the many things, that stood out for me 'now',
was:
the need to focus on gentleness,
because often, worry, fear, depression, doubt, what ifs, etc.
the truth is that anger is often present,
and there is no gentleness in anger.
( I.E. depression is all about self...
not about others!)
Also praying with thanks-giving...
that God hears our prayers,
He will answer...when we trust Him.
and give us peace,
and that peace itself will guard our hearts and minds.
Jesus is our fortress...
I looked at a bunch of medieval fortresses etc. images this time.
Also, it really hit me,
that the things God says we are to think of
( true, noble, admirable, pure, lovely, excellent, praiseworthy, etc.
Can be and are:
a guide...that we can use to determine
if a thought is a sinful thought or not...
there can be no confusion!!
I will re-read part 5 today
That really sunk in this time! :)  I found your personal experience uplifting....how God provided for you and Bruce for about a year and a half! And not just the bare necessities but even for all of your grandchildren's birthdays and Christmas!
That trials can really be proof of faith, peace, joy etc.
As Isaiah 26:3 says.
Today, I will re-read part 6
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
|
Post by fearnot on Jul 24, 2021 11:03:49 GMT -5
I have read almost all of your first post, (part one) over again
( not all the following posts though)
I am still going thru the Bible verses,
( just the ones listed in the first post)
and I am about 1/2 way thru them,
I didn't want to just speed read thru them....
so I am reading them slowly this time.
You did read the short paragraph I posted just before those scriptures, right? Those were just starter scriptures to help the various people that were studying this at the time, as they each had different issues.
Yes, I read all of the posts.....the paragraphs above, in between and and at the end of the posts :)
( I am also writing some down on my pad of paper, and also posting some on FB)
Are you using your thread for "notes" that I made for you in the counseling forum too? That thread is for anything you see anytime that you think is useful for you. You can even use it to save links if you want to.
No not the note thread yet, Devon and Vanessa got a bad cold, and I have been fighting it off for about a week ( sore throat, congested, and tired....well, tired, is often there no matter if I am fighting off a cold or not LOL
But also, I can only concentrate, write notes etc. for so long, and then, I feel like I am not giving it a 100% so a hour or two is all I can do...it is kind of like the spoon story....will I do this thread, work on notes, etc etc. I can't seem to do them all....I have to pick one or two and stick with that and often take a nap.
I think when I first read this, I was totally focused on 'depression'
so although, I read about doubts and 'what IFS'
I did not give them a whole lot of attention, the first time I read this years ago,
and eventually even forgot you had included them,
as I was still focused only only on depression
(for a LONG time).
But this time re-reading,
I noticed
( and paid attention to)
the:
'what ifs', and 'doubts' etc.
( other than 'just' depression,
and taking thoughts captive).
Okay finished part one, onto reading part two!
Hummmm I don't remember the doubt thread ( I remember writing about it....but not a specific thread devoted to doubt....I am sure you did so, I just don't remember it. Like I said, I think I was so totally focused on depression at the time ( and yet....doubts was a part of causing the depression, sometimes a very big part, but I had a super tunnel vision going on).I finished reading and taking notes on part two.
Re-reading your notes, reminds me of how it is when I read the Bible. I may have read a verse or passage 100 times over the years and decades.
When I first read it, depending on what was going on in my life, I focused on a certain aspect of the scripture,
but a decade later,
something else from the passage would really impact me.
It is like that a bit re-reading your posts.
One of the things in post 2 I kind of skimmed over, or it didn't really impact as much as the 2nd reading,
is how Jesus does not want us to wallow in depression, fear, doubt etc.
( I did kind of get that)
but rather....the part..... to be in His joy!
It's the 'joy' part...I did not firmly get.
So today will read part 3.
I only have moments where joy 'seems' almost like Jesus is giving me a hug...
but it 'seems; like the hug is in the now, and yet eternity.
When that happens, the 'world' with its highs, and lowest evils fade away.
I am stunned that Jesus would have died for such a wretch as I, but I am more aware of His 'infinite' love.....
not that I will ever be able to plumb the depths of it....
which in itself a joy ( His love will never run out, I can never find the whole of it....only see more and more of it).
Read part 3,
and the thing that stood out to me this time,
was not just
that if you don't feed sinful thoughts they can't grow,
but that also,
righteousness also cannot grow unless,
unless, you feed it daily from the Word.Read part 4
So there were several things I 'got' this time around.
I think when I read this before, I was (in a way),
almost speed reading over certain parts....
( I read them, but did not deeply reflect on them)
because,
I was looking for a 'quick fix',
out of depression (back then)...
so if it mentioned: 'What if's etc.....
(even though, that could cause depression),
if it did not 'specifically' say...depression,
I hurried over the words,
looking for words to deal ONLY with depression.....
and nothing else.
Anyway, one of the many things, that stood out for me 'now',
was:
the need to focus on gentleness,
because often, worry, fear, depression, doubt, what ifs, etc.
the truth is that anger is often present,
and there is no gentleness in anger.
( I.E. depression is all about self...
not about others!)
Also praying with thanks-giving...
that God hears our prayers,
He will answer...when we trust Him.
and give us peace,
and that peace itself will guard our hearts and minds.
Jesus is our fortress...
I looked at a bunch of medieval fortresses etc. images this time.
Also, it really hit me,
that the things God says we are to think of
( true, noble, admirable, pure, lovely, excellent, praiseworthy, etc.
Can be and are:
a guide...that we can use to determine
if a thought is a sinful thought or not...
there can be no confusion!!
I will re-read part 5 today
That really sunk in this time!
Actually, I thought that also ( re-reading once a month)
I do remember, and know you have talked about Phil 4:8 a LOT.....but this time what stood out this time reading
was not just 'what' we are to think about
and
focus on....
but that you pointed out....
those things listed can be a 'guide',
as to if,
a thought is sinful or not.
For example, lets say a lustful, or jealous thought etc etc. comes to mind
well clearly they are sins....
but....
one could also say to oneself....
Is this a 'noble' thought?
a 'pure' thought?
Is it a 'lovely' thought?
Does it fit the standard of being an admirable thought,
an excellent thought, a praiseworthy thought? etc.
Somehow to me, that was a different take on it....
and would nail the thought (as more clearly explained
( to me)
what is a sinful thought...
more than it is 'just' a sinful thought.
It would be more why it is sinful?
Because it does not fit God's standard,
of the types of thoughts He would have us camp on.
Thoughts that are not true, noble, right, pure, lovely admirable, praiseworthy
are not just the thoughts we are to think
but any thought that do not met those standards
are then sinful.
That was more what caught my attention this time.
I am sure that has always been clear to you
( that 2nd aspect, but I had not really made that connection)
But yeah, I had also thought a monthly re-read LOL
I found your personal experience uplifting....how God provided for you and Bruce for about a year and a half! And not just the bare necessities but even for all of your grandchildren's birthdays and Christmas!
That trials can really be proof of faith, peace, joy etc.
As Isaiah 26:3 says.
Today, I will re-read part 6
And we can sometimes fool ourselves into thinking we are somehow 'noble' and humble by putting ourselves down....but that is not so.
Which is not to say, we are not to feel fine about sinning
that is a different issue ( tho I think we sometimes can get into, I am so bad, ugly, etc. because I keep sinning over and over....instead of doing something about the sins.) |
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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Post by fearnot on Jul 24, 2021 12:29:37 GMT -5
I re-read part 6 and found the part about obedience is not about being legalistic
( unless you think you will get to Heaven by not doing something or will get to Heaven by doing something).
I have been running into more and more Christians who are quick to cry 'legalism' concerning almost anything to do with obedience and/or Lordship of Jesus.
But we obey in order to please the Lord Jesus that we love....it is a very small service for all that He has done for us.
Even Bible study can be called out as 'legalism' by some, but we need to hang out with Jesus...it is the most joyful, glorious, peaceful etc. thing we can do.
I will read part 7 today.
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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Post by fearnot on Jul 25, 2021 9:19:22 GMT -5
Having re-read part 7
These things stood out for this time:
God tells us that we need to know Him and His Word,
we need to teach it to our children,
discuss it, keep it on our hearts and minds,
read and study it etc....
Especially now while we here in the USA can still have Bibles!
Thinking of the parable of the talents....God gives different amounts to different people.
If we get more of them,
what will we do,
with what we have been given.
Also when reading the Bible,
we ought to always ask help for understanding God's Word,
and also for it to make us more like Him ( as a result of reading it),
and for it to deepen our relationship with him.
May it train and equip us for now and for eternity.
May it renew our minds daily.
I will be re-reading part 8 today.
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Post by Cindy on Jul 26, 2021 9:13:34 GMT -5
We had another thread on the old board that was solely about doubts and what if's. But I didn't copy that one so obviously couldn't put it here. At least I don't think I did. I'll have to check later when I have time. So, now that you do realize that those kind of thoughts are sinful, and need to be taken captive, what are you going to do about it?
Hummmm I don't remember the doubt thread ( I remember writing about it....but not a specific thread devoted to doubt....I am sure you did so, I just don't remember it. Like I said, I think I was so totally focused on depression at the time ( and yet....doubts was a part of causing the depression, sometimes a very big part, but I had a super tunnel vision going on).
Yeah, we actually had several threads about doubt, and a couple about putting yourself down, and several about stress, and of course about depression. Plus I was working with you about all those things in the counseling forum, so I'm not surprised you don't remember the various threads. That would be a lot to remember!Yes, I've thought of that often as I've often thought you didn't get the "joy" part. I think a lot of people think of the Joy of the Lord as though it was like being extra happy all the time. Like the way my kids felt on Christmas morning or when their boyfriend asked them to marry them or something like that. While we do have that kind of "joy" at times, it's certainly not constant. The constant joy we have is a quiet joy that's kind of under the surface, always waiting to be expressed. It often jumps out and becomes full when we're worshipping, or praying, or meditating on scripture. How do you experience the joy of the Lord?
I only have moments where joy 'seems' almost like Jesus is giving me a hug...
but it 'seems; like the hug is in the now, and yet eternity.
When that happens, the 'world' with its highs, and lowest evils fade away.
I am stunned that Jesus would have died for such a wretch as I, but I am more aware of His 'infinite' love.....
not that I will ever be able to plumb the depths of it....
which in itself a joy ( His love will never run out, I can never find the whole of it....only see more and more of it).I think that's the same thought we all have hon!Hmmm, maybe you should reread this thread once a month LOL Because I remember really stressing that about Phil 4:8 with you over and over and over in many threads and many private messages and in the counseling forum as well.
Actually, I thought that also ( re-reading once a month)
I do remember, and know you have talked about Phil 4:8 a LOT.....but this time what stood out this time reading
was not just 'what' we are to think about
and
focus on....
but that you pointed out....
those things listed can be a 'guide',
as to if,
a thought is sinful or not.
For example, lets say a lustful, or jealous thought etc etc. comes to mind
well clearly they are sins....
but....
one could also say to oneself....
Is this a 'noble' thought?
a 'pure' thought?
Is it a 'lovely' thought?
Does it fit the standard of being an admirable thought,
an excellent thought, a praiseworthy thought? etc.
Somehow to me, that was a different take on it....
and would nail the thought (as more clearly explained
( to me)
what is a sinful thought...
more than it is 'just' a sinful thought.
It would be more why it is sinful?
Because it does not fit God's standard,
of the types of thoughts He would have us camp on.
Thoughts that are not true, noble, right, pure, lovely admirable, praiseworthy
are not just the thoughts we are to think
but any thought that do not met those standards
are then sinful.
That was more what caught my attention this time.
 I'm glad you finally understood that, because that's exactly what I told you to use Phil 4:8 for! I even told you to write that down in your notebook!
Yes, and I also stressed that thoughts about putting yourself down were sins because they not only didn't line up with Phil 4:8, but also they go directly against what God says about you.
I am sure that has always been clear to you
( that 2nd aspect, but I had not really made that connection)
But yeah, I had also thought a monthly re-read LOL
I'm glad it helped. I remember telling you a number of times all those years ago, that taking our thoughts captive was something we would have to do every day of our lives, and that we would have to always pay attention to every thought and not just certain ones. Do you understand that now that you've read so much of this thread again? I mean do you understand that every thought has to be obedient to Christ, therefore we must always pay attention to our thoughts and stop the ones that don't agree with scripture. Like the ones that start with "what if" or the ones that say we're stupid, or slow, or ugly, or whatever negative thing we think about ourselves.
Aha....I keep forgetting about the personal put downs.....I totally get not to put others down, but I keep forgetting when we do it to ourselves, we are essentially saying God made a mistake, His work is not perfect and so on. We are not just criticizing ourselves but God.
And we can sometimes fool ourselves into thinking we are somehow 'noble' and humble by putting ourselves down....but that is not so.
Which is not to say, we are not to feel fine about sinning
that is a different issue ( tho I think we sometimes can get into, I am so bad, ugly, etc. because I keep sinning over and over....instead of doing something about the sins.)
Yep, see, I'm learning too! After being told so often lately that you'd forgotten about everything, I figured you had probably forgotten that putting yourself down is a sin as well, since I worked with you about that for quite awhile in counseling. That's why I mentioned it here.
I re-read part 6 and found the part about obedience is not about being legalistic
( unless you think you will get to Heaven by not doing something or will get to Heaven by doing something).
I have been running into more and more Christians who are quick to cry 'legalism' concerning almost anything to do with obedience and/or Lordship of Jesus.
But we obey in order to please the Lord Jesus that we love....it is a very small service for all that He has done for us.
Even Bible study can be called out as 'legalism' by some, but we need to hang out with Jesus...it is the most joyful, glorious, peaceful etc. thing we can do.
Exactly! this is the way I like to explain it: First I just say that we have a personal relationship with the Lord and compare it with our relationship with our spouse. If you ignore your spouse, don't do anything for him, and never or rarely talk to him, except perhaps to ask for things, what is your relationship going to be like? It won't be a relationship because it's only one sided then. A relationship requires two people working together to please the other person and to grow their relationship. If you husband asks you to do something, you would do it because you love him, not because you have to. And he would do the same for you. All those people who spend all of 15 minutes a day reading the bible, don't have much of a relationship with the Lord. They can't have much of one or they would be constantly drawn to His Word and to talk to Him. Just like we are when we first met our husbands. I remember telling Bruce when we were dating that I'd love to do his laundry for him so he wouldn't have to. He said no at first but finally gave in LOL. Years later, after we were married, I used to wonder why in the world I'd ever said that! LOL But seriously. I did it because I loved him. Each day I couldn't wait to see him, and couldn't wait for him to call me. I'd wait expectantly and hopefully waiting for either to happen, and was thrilled when they did happen. That's how we should be with God and with prayer and with His Word.
Having re-read part 7
These things stood out for this time:
God tells us that we need to know Him and His Word,
we need to teach it to our children,
discuss it, keep it on our hearts and minds,
read and study it etc....
Especially now while we here in the USA can still have Bibles!
Thinking of the parable of the talents....God gives different amounts to different people.
If we get more of them,
what will we do,
with what we have been given.
Also when reading the Bible,
we ought to always ask help for understanding God's Word,
and also for it to make us more like Him ( as a result of reading it),
and for it to deepen our relationship with him.
May it train and equip us for now and for eternity.
May it renew our minds daily.
Amen! I'd like to mention here something MacArthur said in one of his sermons about this. I was never brave enough to say this before as I wasn't positive I was right and didn't want to be judged harshly by the Lord for saying it. But now that I've heard MacArthur say it, I know it's true, so here goes: Everyone that isn't mentally retarded that lives in the United States will be judged for not reading the Bible and for not obeying what it says. Everyone - both the saved and the unsaved! Why? Because everyone is judged on what they know and what they could have known! So all the unsaved who don't know the Bible, will be judged as though they did know it and refused to obey it. And of course, so will all who think they're saved.
Everyone in the US could read a Bible if they wanted to. They could get one at a library, or at any Christian church, for free. If they went online and did a search they could find sites that would send them a Bible for free. Besides all that, there are many sites on line that offer Bibles to read online for free. So anyone that can get online can read a Bible if they want to. Just because they don't want to doesn't matter. God has commanded us to read and obey it and that's what matters, whether we like it or not.
I said "everyone" although I did say that the mentally retarded wouldn't be judged that way, because God is fair and just. So any child that can't yet read well, won't be judged for not reading and obeying the Bible. But most children can read the Bible by the time they're 10 years old, so most of todays children will be judged for not having read and obeyed the Bible.
Obviously, the same thing is true for many other countries, like all the countries in Europe. But those that don't have Bibles obviously wouldn't be judged for not having read them.
What gets me about this, is that many people who call themselves Christians are going to get caught by this, because many never pick up their Bible except to carry it to church on Sunday. (and some don't even do that.) God is surely separating the wheat from the chaff right now. But He's so merciful that He is giving the chaff ample time to repent and be truly saved!
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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Post by fearnot on Jul 26, 2021 15:46:10 GMT -5
Part 8
To avoid anxious care
it is seeing ourselves as wiser than God, trying to do what only He can do.
It is not believing His Word, and resorting to human wisdom.That is presumption, and intruding on God providence, and is sinful.
Worry does nothing positive for our lives,
instead we are to cast our burdens on Him, be careful for nothing, and do not worry about our lives.
I will read part 9 hopefully all today, but I am awake at 2 in the afternoon soooo it might go into tomorrow morning.
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Post by Cindy on Jul 27, 2021 10:46:15 GMT -5
I cut this down, and cut out a lot, so you could quote it if you want to, adding on your reply about part 8.
Yeah, we actually had several threads about doubt, and a couple about putting yourself down, and several about stress, and of course about depression. Plus I was working with you about all those things in the counseling forum, so I'm not surprised you don't remember the various threads. That would be a lot to remember!
Actually, I thought that also ( re-reading once a month)
I do remember, and know you have talked about Phil 4:8 a LOT.....but this time what stood out this time reading
was not just 'what' we are to think about
and
focus on....
but that you pointed out....
those things listed can be a 'guide',
as to if,
a thought is sinful or not.
For example, lets say a lustful, or jealous thought etc etc. comes to mind
well clearly they are sins....
but....
one could also say to oneself....
Is this a 'noble' thought?
a 'pure' thought?
Is it a 'lovely' thought?
Does it fit the standard of being an admirable thought,
an excellent thought, a praiseworthy thought? etc.
Somehow to me, that was a different take on it....
and would nail the thought (as more clearly explained
( to me)
what is a sinful thought...
more than it is 'just' a sinful thought.
It would be more why it is sinful?
Because it does not fit God's standard,
of the types of thoughts He would have us camp on.
Thoughts that are not true, noble, right, pure, lovely admirable, praiseworthy
are not just the thoughts we are to think
but any thought that do not met those standards
are then sinful.
That was more what caught my attention this time.
I'm glad you finally understood that, because that's exactly what I told you to use Phil 4:8 for! I even told you to write that down in your notebook!
Yes, and I also stressed that thoughts about putting yourself down were sins because they not only didn't line up with Phil 4:8, but also they go directly against what God says about you.
I am sure that has always been clear to you
( that 2nd aspect, but I had not really made that connection)
But yeah, I had also thought a monthly re-read LOL
I'm glad it helped. I remember telling you a number of times all those years ago, that taking our thoughts captive was something we would have to do every day of our lives, and that we would have to always pay attention to every thought and not just certain ones. Do you understand that now that you've read so much of this thread again? I mean do you understand that every thought has to be obedient to Christ, therefore we must always pay attention to our thoughts and stop the ones that don't agree with scripture. Like the ones that start with "what if" or the ones that say we're stupid, or slow, or ugly, or whatever negative thing we think about ourselves.
Aha....I keep forgetting about the personal put downs.....I totally get not to put others down, but I keep forgetting when we do it to ourselves, we are essentially saying God made a mistake, His work is not perfect and so on. We are not just criticizing ourselves but God.
And we can sometimes fool ourselves into thinking we are somehow 'noble' and humble by putting ourselves down....but that is not so.
Which is not to say, we are not to feel fine about sinning
that is a different issue ( tho I think we sometimes can get into, I am so bad, ugly, etc. because I keep sinning over and over....instead of doing something about the sins.)
Yep, see, I'm learning too! After being told so often lately that you'd forgotten about everything, I figured you had probably forgotten that putting yourself down is a sin as well, since I worked with you about that for quite awhile in counseling. That's why I mentioned it here.
I re-read part 6 and found the part about obedience is not about being legalistic
( unless you think you will get to Heaven by not doing something or will get to Heaven by doing something).
I have been running into more and more Christians who are quick to cry 'legalism' concerning almost anything to do with obedience and/or Lordship of Jesus.
But we obey in order to please the Lord Jesus that we love....it is a very small service for all that He has done for us.
Even Bible study can be called out as 'legalism' by some, but we need to hang out with Jesus...it is the most joyful, glorious, peaceful etc. thing we can do.
Yes, people will call anything and everything legalism if it's something they don't want to do.
Having re-read part 7
These things stood out for this time:
God tells us that we need to know Him and His Word,
we need to teach it to our children,
discuss it, keep it on our hearts and minds,
read and study it etc....
Especially now while we here in the USA can still have Bibles!
Thinking of the parable of the talents....God gives different amounts to different people.
If we get more of them,
what will we do,
with what we have been given.
Also when reading the Bible,
we ought to always ask help for understanding God's Word,
and also for it to make us more like Him ( as a result of reading it),
and for it to deepen our relationship with him.
May it train and equip us for now and for eternity.
May it renew our minds daily.
Amen! I'd like to mention here something MacArthur said in one of his sermons about this. I was never brave enough to say this before as I wasn't positive I was right and didn't want to be judged harshly by the Lord for saying it. But now that I've heard MacArthur say it, I know it's true, so here goes: Everyone that isn't mentally retarded that lives in the United States will be judged for not reading the Bible and for not obeying what it says. Everyone - both the saved and the unsaved! Why? Because everyone is judged on what they know and what they could have known! So all the unsaved who don't know the Bible, will be judged as though they did know it and refused to obey it. And of course, so will all who think they're saved.
Everyone in the US could read a Bible if they wanted to. They could get one at a library, or at any Christian church, for free. If they went online and did a search they could find sites that would send them a Bible for free. Besides all that, there are many sites on line that offer Bibles to read online for free. So anyone that can get online can read a Bible if they want to. Just because they don't want to doesn't matter. God has commanded us to read and obey it and that's what matters, whether we like it or not.
I said "everyone" although I did say that the mentally retarded wouldn't be judged that way, because God is fair and just. So any child that can't yet read well, won't be judged for not reading and obeying the Bible. But most children can read the Bible by the time they're 10 years old, so most of todays children will be judged for not having read and obeyed the Bible.
Obviously, the same thing is true for many other countries, like all the countries in Europe. But those that don't have Bibles obviously wouldn't be judged for not having read them.
What gets me about this, is that many people who call themselves Christians are going to get caught by this, because many never pick up their Bible except to carry it to church on Sunday. (and some don't even do that.) God is surely separating the wheat from the chaff right now. But He's so merciful that He is giving the chaff ample time to repent and be truly saved!
Part 8
To avoid anxious care
it is seeing ourselves as wiser than God, trying to do what only He can do.
It is not believing His Word, and resorting to human wisdom. That is presumption, and intruding on God providence, and is sinful.
Worry does nothing positive for our lives,
instead we are to cast our burdens on Him, be careful for nothing, and do not worry about our lives.
And how are you with worry now? Do you tend to worry a lot still? Or have you truly realized that you don't need to because you really can trust the Lord?
If you've read part 9 when you see this, that's ok, but if you haven't, then let's stop here for a bit so we can talk about what's been said so far, as it's an awful lot to absorb.
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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Post by fearnot on Jul 27, 2021 11:08:54 GMT -5
I cut this down, and cut out a lot, so you could quote it if you want to, adding on your reply about part 8.
Yeah, we actually had several threads about doubt, and a couple about putting yourself down, and several about stress, and of course about depression. Plus I was working with you about all those things in the counseling forum, so I'm not surprised you don't remember the various threads. That would be a lot to remember!
Actually, I thought that also ( re-reading once a month)
I do remember, and know you have talked about Phil 4:8 a LOT.....but this time what stood out this time reading
was not just 'what' we are to think about
and
focus on....
but that you pointed out....
those things listed can be a 'guide',
as to if,
a thought is sinful or not.
For example, lets say a lustful, or jealous thought etc etc. comes to mind
well clearly they are sins....
but....
one could also say to oneself....
Is this a 'noble' thought?
a 'pure' thought?
Is it a 'lovely' thought?
Does it fit the standard of being an admirable thought,
an excellent thought, a praiseworthy thought? etc.
Somehow to me, that was a different take on it....
and would nail the thought (as more clearly explained
( to me)
what is a sinful thought...
more than it is 'just' a sinful thought.
It would be more why it is sinful?
Because it does not fit God's standard,
of the types of thoughts He would have us camp on.
Thoughts that are not true, noble, right, pure, lovely admirable, praiseworthy
are not just the thoughts we are to think
but any thought that do not met those standards
are then sinful.
That was more what caught my attention this time.
I'm glad you finally understood that, because that's exactly what I told you to use Phil 4:8 for! I even told you to write that down in your notebook!
Yes, and I also stressed that thoughts about putting yourself down were sins because they not only didn't line up with Phil 4:8, but also they go directly against what God says about you.
I am sure that has always been clear to you
( that 2nd aspect, but I had not really made that connection)
But yeah, I had also thought a monthly re-read LOL
I'm glad it helped. I remember telling you a number of times all those years ago, that taking our thoughts captive was something we would have to do every day of our lives, and that we would have to always pay attention to every thought and not just certain ones. Do you understand that now that you've read so much of this thread again? I mean do you understand that every thought has to be obedient to Christ, therefore we must always pay attention to our thoughts and stop the ones that don't agree with scripture. Like the ones that start with "what if" or the ones that say we're stupid, or slow, or ugly, or whatever negative thing we think about ourselves.
Aha....I keep forgetting about the personal put downs.....I totally get not to put others down, but I keep forgetting when we do it to ourselves, we are essentially saying God made a mistake, His work is not perfect and so on. We are not just criticizing ourselves but God.
And we can sometimes fool ourselves into thinking we are somehow 'noble' and humble by putting ourselves down....but that is not so.
Which is not to say, we are not to feel fine about sinning
that is a different issue ( tho I think we sometimes can get into, I am so bad, ugly, etc. because I keep sinning over and over....instead of doing something about the sins.)
Yep, see, I'm learning too! After being told so often lately that you'd forgotten about everything, I figured you had probably forgotten that putting yourself down is a sin as well, since I worked with you about that for quite awhile in counseling. That's why I mentioned it here.
I re-read part 6 and found the part about obedience is not about being legalistic
( unless you think you will get to Heaven by not doing something or will get to Heaven by doing something).
I have been running into more and more Christians who are quick to cry 'legalism' concerning almost anything to do with obedience and/or Lordship of Jesus.
But we obey in order to please the Lord Jesus that we love....it is a very small service for all that He has done for us.
Even Bible study can be called out as 'legalism' by some, but we need to hang out with Jesus...it is the most joyful, glorious, peaceful etc. thing we can do.
Yes, people will call anything and everything legalism if it's something they don't want to do.
Having re-read part 7
These things stood out for this time:
God tells us that we need to know Him and His Word,
we need to teach it to our children,
discuss it, keep it on our hearts and minds,
read and study it etc....
Especially now while we here in the USA can still have Bibles!
Thinking of the parable of the talents....God gives different amounts to different people.
If we get more of them,
what will we do,
with what we have been given.
Also when reading the Bible,
we ought to always ask help for understanding God's Word,
and also for it to make us more like Him ( as a result of reading it),
and for it to deepen our relationship with him.
May it train and equip us for now and for eternity.
May it renew our minds daily.
Amen! I'd like to mention here something MacArthur said in one of his sermons about this. I was never brave enough to say this before as I wasn't positive I was right and didn't want to be judged harshly by the Lord for saying it. But now that I've heard MacArthur say it, I know it's true, so here goes: Everyone that isn't mentally retarded that lives in the United States will be judged for not reading the Bible and for not obeying what it says. Everyone - both the saved and the unsaved! Why? Because everyone is judged on what they know and what they could have known! So all the unsaved who don't know the Bible, will be judged as though they did know it and refused to obey it. And of course, so will all who think they're saved.
Everyone in the US could read a Bible if they wanted to. They could get one at a library, or at any Christian church, for free. If they went online and did a search they could find sites that would send them a Bible for free. Besides all that, there are many sites on line that offer Bibles to read online for free. So anyone that can get online can read a Bible if they want to. Just because they don't want to doesn't matter. God has commanded us to read and obey it and that's what matters, whether we like it or not.
I said "everyone" although I did say that the mentally retarded wouldn't be judged that way, because God is fair and just. So any child that can't yet read well, won't be judged for not reading and obeying the Bible. But most children can read the Bible by the time they're 10 years old, so most of todays children will be judged for not having read and obeyed the Bible.
Obviously, the same thing is true for many other countries, like all the countries in Europe. But those that don't have Bibles obviously wouldn't be judged for not having read them.
What gets me about this, is that many people who call themselves Christians are going to get caught by this, because many never pick up their Bible except to carry it to church on Sunday. (and some don't even do that.) God is surely separating the wheat from the chaff right now. But He's so merciful that He is giving the chaff ample time to repent and be truly saved!
Part 8
To avoid anxious care
it is seeing ourselves as wiser than God, trying to do what only He can do.
It is not believing His Word, and resorting to human wisdom. That is presumption, and intruding on God providence, and is sinful.
Worry does nothing positive for our lives,
instead we are to cast our burdens on Him, be careful for nothing, and do not worry about our lives.
And how are you with worry now? Do you tend to worry a lot still? Or have you truly realized that you don't need to because you really can trust the Lord?
If you've read part 9 when you see this, that's ok, but if you haven't, then let's stop here for a bit so we can talk about what's been said so far, as it's an awful lot to absorb.
I am doing a LOT better with worry.....
I am catching myself more and more and stopping it very soon....
once in awhile, I will be droning on about something and then...
I will think...what?
NO!
This is not trusting God, or this is not a noble, pure, lovely etc. thought....stop!
So this has helped tremendously.....it was excellent to go over this again.
I think, even tho, I was still having issues, I had grown quite a bit, even so
and that lead to my getting a lot more out of re-reading these point from God's word.
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I "think' You said post what I wrote about part 8 here?
I will do so....not sure if that is what you meant tho?
Part 8
To avoid anxious care
it is seeing ourselves as wiser than God, trying to do what only He can do.
It is not believing His Word, and resorting to human wisdom.That is presumption, and intruding on God providence, and is sinful.
Worry does nothing positive for our lives,
instead we are to cast our burdens on Him, be careful for nothing, and do not worry about our lives.
I will read part 9 hopefully all today, but I am awake at 2 in the afternoon soooo it might go into tomorrow morning.
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I also did read Part 9
it seemed a lot shorter ( tho part 10 looks like it will be longer....will find out when you say to go onto that :)
Anywa, I will put what stood out in Part 9 here since I did re-read it already:
This dumping of worries, stress, depression, anxiety, fears , doubts etc.
Are a foundation for when we are saved.
God is never failing...So it's a choice do I stay with my fears etc.
or with what God says?
I choose what God says.
He will not fail me ( that does not mean there won't be hard things in life)
But though I am a selfish, stubborn, wayward sinner
God is my help I will not fear..
or if the temptation to fear comes,
I will quickly trust God
( no matter what evil, or wrong is in my way). |
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Post by Cindy on Jul 28, 2021 9:31:27 GMT -5
And how are you with worry now? Do you tend to worry a lot still? Or have you truly realized that you don't need to because you really can trust the Lord?
If you've read part 9 when you see this, that's ok, but if you haven't, then let's stop here for a bit so we can talk about what's been said so far, as it's an awful lot to absorb.
I am doing a LOT better with worry.....
I am catching myself more and more and stopping it very soon....
once in awhile, I will be droning on about something and then...
I will think...what?
NO!
This is not trusting God, or this is not a noble, pure, lovely etc. thought....stop!
So this has helped tremendously.....it was excellent to go over this again.
I think, even tho, I was still having issues, I had grown quite a bit, even so
and that lead to my getting a lot more out of re-reading these point from God's word.
I'm glad to hear you're doing well as far as worry is concerned. That's good news! I do have a question for you though. Why did you quote my last post to you if you weren't going to comment on any of it?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I "think' You said post what I wrote about part 8 here?
I will do so....not sure if that is what you meant tho?
Part 8
To avoid anxious care
it is seeing ourselves as wiser than God, trying to do what only He can do.
It is not believing His Word, and resorting to human wisdom. That is presumption, and intruding on God providence, and is sinful.
Worry does nothing positive for our lives,
instead we are to cast our burdens on Him, be careful for nothing, and do not worry about our lives.
I will read part 9 hopefully all today, but I am awake at 2 in the afternoon soooo it might go into tomorrow morning.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I also did read Part 9
it seemed a lot shorter ( tho part 10 looks like it will be longer....will find out when you say to go onto that :)
Anywa, I will put what stood out in Part 9 here since I did re-read it already:
This dumping of worries, stress, depression, anxiety, fears , doubts etc.
Are a foundation for when we are saved.
God is never failing...So it's a choice do I stay with my fears etc.
or with what God says?
I choose what God says.
He will not fail me ( that does not mean there won't be hard things in life)
But though I am a selfish, stubborn, wayward sinner
God is my help I will not fear..
or if the temptation to fear comes,
I will quickly trust God
( no matter what evil, or wrong is in my way).
Good! I'm glad to hear it! I noticed that sometimes you're still putting code on every single line you write instead of just doing it all together one time. You can type your full answer and then when you're done, highlight all of it and add the bold, color and size. The only time you have to stop is when you want to use another color or when someone else is using another color. For example, in this post you could have highlighted everything from this line ~~~~~ above part 8 to "(no matter what evil, or wrong is in my way) and put the code for bold, color and size on all of it instead of just doing some of it.
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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Post by fearnot on Jul 28, 2021 12:36:55 GMT -5
I am a little confused....did I not comment on something you wrote?
I thought I have been doing each part and commenting....
did I miss something?
Also, I still don't completely understand how the 'quote' thing works.
I press
quote,
and then,
preview
and I just type under each section....
I thought that was all I had to do?
But I did notice at least one post where most of it was right,
but then,
a section or two, was in a smaller type
and I had no idea why it did that?
Oh but wait...
I sometimes do use a different color
because if I had already replied a day or so before....but am adding something new to it....
then, I do a different color
because I think you might not know
I had added to something from a day or two before
soooooo maybe that is when.....I need to highlight everything and do the size, color, etc.?
I am not sure if I should go on and finish up part 10 now?
You had mentioned something about talking about 1-9 ( I think)?
I think the thing right at this moment,
that is still standing out for me,
and I am finding very very helpful
Is when I start 'daydreaming', 'musing', etc.
I am finding myself almost always,
catching it quickly,
and asking myself:
Is this 'true'?
Noble?
Right?
pure?
lovely?
Admirable?
excellent?
praiseworthy?
Sometimes something I am starting to think about,
could be:
'true'
but not noble
or pure
or lovely
So if I only asked myself is this 'true'
and not
is it noble etc.
I could trick myself into thinking it was fine to continue
in the daydream or 'fantasy', or 'musing', or 'conversation' etc.
So I have learned that, for me,
it's best to check a few of the other requirements
to avoid giving myself a 'green' light,
to go ahead in thinking about something that is true
but not praiseworthy, or excellent, or pure or noble etc.
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Post by Cindy on Jul 29, 2021 10:44:07 GMT -5
I am a little confused....did I not comment on something you wrote?
I thought I have been doing each part and commenting....
did I miss something?
No, don't worry about it hon!
Also, I still don't completely understand how the 'quote' thing works.
I press
quote,
and then,
preview
and I just type under each section....
I thought that was all I had to do?
But I did notice at least one post where most of it was right,
but then,
a section or two, was in a smaller type
and I had no idea why it did that?
I'm pretty sure that the reason that happens is because of how you at least some times try to add code to every single line individually, instead of just highlighting all that you wrote in between my words and adding any code to all of it at once. By "in between my words" let me give you an example. Like right now, when I finish typing this sentence, I'm going to highlight everything from "I'm pretty sure" to the end of this reply which ends with, "in between your words" and then choose the dark green color for it all; then I'll be highlighting everything I wrote in between your words.
Oh but wait...
I sometimes do use a different color
because if I had already replied a day or so before....but am adding something new to it....
then, I do a different color
because I think you might not know
I had added to something from a day or two before
soooooo maybe that is when.....I need to highlight everything and do the size, color, etc.?
See what I wrote above.
I am not sure if I should go on and finish up part 10 now?
You had mentioned something about talking about 1-9 ( I think)?
I think the thing right at this moment,
that is still standing out for me,
and I am finding very very helpful
Is when I start 'daydreaming', 'musing', etc.
I am finding myself almost always,
catching it quickly,
and asking myself:
Is this 'true'?
Noble?
Right?
pure?
lovely?
Admirable?
excellent?
praiseworthy?
Sometimes something I am starting to think about,
could be:
'true'
but not noble
or pure
or lovely
So if I only asked myself is this 'true'
and not
is it noble etc.
I could trick myself into thinking it was fine to continue
in the daydream or 'fantasy', or 'musing', or 'conversation' etc.
So I have learned that, for me,
it's best to check a few of the other requirements
to avoid giving myself a 'green' light,
to go ahead in thinking about something that is true
but not praiseworthy, or excellent, or pure or noble etc.
imag•i•na•tion \i-ˌma-jə-ˈnā-shən\ noun
[Middle English, from Anglo-French, from Latin imagination-, imaginatio, from imaginari] 14th century
1: the act or power of forming a mental image of something not present to the senses or never before wholly perceived in reality
2 a: creative ability
b: ability to confront and deal with a problem: RESOURCEFULNESS 〈use your imagination and get us out of here〉
c: the thinking or active mind: INTEREST 〈stories that fired the imagination〉
3 a: a creation of the mind especially: an idealized or poetic creation
b: fanciful or empty assumption
Merriam-Webster’s collegiate dictionary
imagination noun
the power or function of the mind by which mental images are formed or the exercise of that power <children have great imagination>
synonyms: fancy, fantasy (or phantasy), imaginativeness
related words: creativity, inspiration, invention, inventiveness, visualization
Merriam-Webster’s collegiate thesaurus
Since today is Thursday, feel free to answer my question and then do Part 10 if you want to as I should be able to be here tomorrow. Then you'll have the weekend to add anything you want to be sure to remember to your "notes" thread in the counseling forum.
I'll even tell you a quick way to cheat and get things from one thread to another.... just click the "select post" on each post that you want to save in one thread and then click reply. There, you can delete parts you don't want to save and then copy what you do want to put in the other thread. Then you simply go to the other thread and paste it all into a post there. I know you often forget how to do things so here's a post on how to quote more then one post at a time:
fresh-hope.com/post/1850/thread Come to think of it, the thread that post is in would be a good one for you to look at once a month or something until you have it all figured out...
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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Post by fearnot on Jul 29, 2021 11:35:52 GMT -5
That is strange that I have said in the past,
(that I did not daydream).
I do not remember saying it, but I am sure I must have.
I can't think of why, I would have said that.
In fact, I would imagine I would get an 'A'
( LOL ....if daydreaming were a class).
I am still trying to figure out what would have possessed me to say,
I did not daydream or use my imagination.
The only thing that comes to mind is maybe, I was thinking that
I focused on actual past happenings?
But even then, I would have a tendency to use that more as a jumping off
place.....
In other words start with something that actually happened in the past,
and then
add onto it....
usually making it way worse
( although many actual happenings would have been bad enough)
But still....
it was odd....
Sometimes I wonder if my brain was only firing at 1/4 its potential LOL
Or maybe....( this is a kind of imagining because I have no idea that it is the least bit remotely true...)
Maybe, I was trying to make Eva feel okay with what she said?
That's a stretch of the imagination haha
I think maybe I was 1/2 asleep...not really tracking.
Of course, it turns out, that many daydreams are not a good thing....
if they do not fit the good things scripture says to think about....but rather are sinful.
I would say, I have a vivid imagination and always have...
which can be a good thing,
( like if one is an author)
but not a good thing, if one continues to think gloomy, depressing, or sinful thoughts using one's imagination.
So I will re-read post ten
and then post about it tomorrow
and then,
on the weekend try to work on my notes
( Hopefully using your short cut to post there...but knowing I don't always get it at first try...we shall see)
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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Post by fearnot on Jul 30, 2021 12:15:00 GMT -5
I re-read part 10
and here are some of the things that stood out this time around:
We have to 'abide'...we are not going to be 'magically' changed.
When we don't abide in Jesus ( and God's Word)
and are instead 'abiding' in the world, it becomes 'garbage in = garbage out.
In order to grow spiritually, in Christ, we have to 'work' ( after we are saved...not 'work' in order to be saved...
If we do not, we may experience 'consequences.
We must maintain our relationship with the Lord, Jesus is to be the focus of our lives...
Worry, doubts, fears, depression etc. is NOT staying or abiding in Him.
We make godly character from the new life God has put into us,, and God has given us everything we need for life and godliness....
in His Word!
It is by His Word, we are changed more like Him.
God gives us 'faith':
We add goodness
knowledge ( by obedience)
self-control ( i.e. bring our thoughts captive)
and those things take...perseverance!
All with God's help!
Brotherly kindness, ( both feeling and actions)
love ( agape love)...love to those who are not lovable
.
Obedience comes BEFORE understanding, success, or victory.
God wants us to grow in Christ...to mature in Him.
Tomorrow, I will work on the note thread.
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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Post by fearnot on Aug 2, 2021 11:31:52 GMT -5
I don't see you here yet...
So I will continue on working on my notes, and come back tomorrow.
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Post by Cindy on Aug 2, 2021 11:57:43 GMT -5
That is strange that I have said in the past,
(that I did not daydream).
No, you didn't say that. You said you did not have an imagination and even asked me what the word meant! You insisted you'd never even heard of it before. Like I said, if Eva had said that it wouldn't have surprised me, but I was shocked when you said that.
I do not remember saying it, but I am sure I must have.
I can't think of why, I would have said that.
In fact, I would imagine I would get an 'A'
( LOL ....if daydreaming were a class).
I am still trying to figure out what would have possessed me to say,
I did not daydream or use my imagination.
The only thing that comes to mind is maybe, I was thinking that
I focused on actual past happenings?
But even then, I would have a tendency to use that more as a jumping off
place.....
In other words start with something that actually happened in the past,
and then
add onto it....
usually making it way worse
( although many actual happenings would have been bad enough)
This is what I wanted to find out when I asked you if you what you generally imagined....
So I'll address this at the end of you post.
But still....
it was odd....
Sometimes I wonder if my brain was only firing at 1/4 its potential LOL
Or maybe....( this is a kind of imagining because I have no idea that it is the least bit remotely true...)
Maybe, I was trying to make Eva feel okay with what she said?
That's a stretch of the imagination haha
I think you said it first though and then Eva agreed with you.
I think maybe I was 1/2 asleep...not really tracking.
Of course, it turns out, that many daydreams are not a good thing....
if they do not fit the good things scripture says to think about....but rather are sinful.
I would say, I have a vivid imagination and always have...
which can be a good thing,
( like if one is an author)
but not a good thing, if one continues to think gloomy, depressing, or sinful thoughts using one's imagination.
So I will re-read post ten
and then post about it tomorrow
and then,
on the weekend try to work on my notes
( Hopefully using your short cut to post there...but knowing I don't always get it at first try...we shall see)
yep, we are responsible for our imagination too, and are supposed to make all of those thoughts obedient to Christ as well. That means stopping the thought completely and not allowing it to continue in any way, shape or form, and then to use your imagination in a way that honors God who gave us our imaginations. Let's look at some of the scriptures that mention this:
“All my enemies whisper together against me; they imagine the worst for me, saying,” (Psalm 41:7)
““I revealed myself to those who did not ask for me; I was found by those who did not seek me. To a nation that did not call on my name, I said, ‘Here am I, here am I.’ All day long I have held out my hands to an obstinate people, who walk in ways not good, pursuing their own imaginations—” (Isaiah 65:1–2)
““Son of man, prophesy against the prophets of Israel who are now prophesying. Say to those who prophesy out of their own imagination: ‘Hear the word of the LORD!” (Ezekiel 13:2)
“And oppress not the widow, nor the fatherless, the stranger, nor the poor; and let none of you imagine evil against his brother in your heart.” (Zechariah 7:10)
It's interesting that when a scripture speaks about someone thinking or planning something, the KJV as well as the several other translations I have from the 1500's to the 1800's, use the word, "imagine", or another form of that word such as imaginations. For example: “An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,” (Proverbs 6:18)
“Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?” (Psalm 2:1)
I want to post one verse in a number of different versions. The reason I sometimes do this is because it's an excellent way for us to get a better understanding of that verse.
Romans 1:21 These are some of the older versions:
AV Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
DARBY Because, knowing God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but fell into folly in their thoughts, and their heart without understanding was darkened:
gave thanks, but were made vain in their reasonings, and their unintelligent heart was darkened,
D-R Because that, when they knew God, they have not glorified him as God or given thanks: but became vain in their thoughts. And their foolish heart was darkened.
Geneva Because that when they knewe God, they glorified him not as God, nether were thankeful, but became vaine in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was ful of darkenes.
These are more recent translations:
NKJV because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened.
NIV For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened.
The Amplified version makes it pretty clear:
AMP Because when they knew and recognized Him as God, they did not honor and glorify Him as God or give Him thanks. But instead they became futile and godless in their thinking [with vain imaginings, foolish reasoning, and stupid speculations] and their senseless minds were darkened.
Obviously then, there is a right way to use our imagination and a wrong way to use it. We need to be aware of that and we need to really work at using our imaginations in the way that God intended them to be used. So let's discuss this for a bit now.
By the way, if you'd like me to move these last couple of posts into the counseling forum, I'll be glad to do so. Just let me know.
I re-read part 10
and here are some of the things that stood out this time around:
We have to 'abide'...we are not going to be 'magically' changed.
When we don't abide in Jesus ( and God's Word)
and are instead 'abiding' in the world, it becomes 'garbage in = garbage out.
I know you know what it means to "abide" in Jesus or His Word, but if you were talking to someone else, they might ask you what it means. Just letting you know so that you can consider how you'd explain that to someone else. (you don't have to tell me about it though lol)
In order to grow spiritually, in Christ, we have to 'work' ( after we are saved...not 'work' in order to be saved...
What do you mean, we have to work?
If we do not, we may experience 'consequences.
We must maintain our relationship with the Lord, Jesus is to be the focus of our lives...
Worry, doubts, fears, depression etc. is NOT staying or abiding in Him.
We make godly character from the new life God has put into us,, and God has given us everything we need for life and godliness....
in His Word!
Yes, and no....because we really don't do anything to cause the changes in our thinking and behavior after we're saved. God is the one who actually changes us, and He changes us on the inside, not just our behavior. For example, someone could act like a nice person and a great neighbor, who you would be impressed with, but in secret that person sexually molests little children. Or we can think of the Pharisees when Jesus was here physically. They acted very religious, and they even thought they were holy and above everyone else. But their hearts were far from God. We have to be super careful about how we talk about being changed since God is really the one that does it. However, because we love Him, we want to please Him. Just as when we fell in love with our spouse, we wanted to please him too. So in order to please Him, we try to obey what we read in His Word, although imperfectly, since we still sin. In that way though, we're actually cooperating with God as He continues to change us to become more and more like Jesus. And as you say, He does this through His Word.
It is by His Word, we are changed more like Him.
God gives us 'faith':
We add goodness
knowledge ( by obedience)
self-control ( i.e. bring our thoughts captive)
and those things take...perseverance!
All with God's help!
Brotherly kindness, ( both feeling and actions)
love ( agape love)...love to those who are not lovable
.
Obedience comes BEFORE understanding, success, or victory.
God wants us to grow in Christ...to mature in Him.
Tomorrow, I will work on the note thread.
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I'm glad you finally understood that, because that's exactly what I told you to use Phil 4:8 for! I even told you to write that down in your notebook!
!!
