fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383 
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Post by fearnot on Dec 16, 2021 12:30:38 GMT -5
Like Cindy said, false teachers can read the Bible,
but they then pick and choose,
only certain parts of scripture,
to fit their deceptions.
Often the one who prospers financially,
for the most part, is the false teacher.
They will often tell their poor followers
to give to the church
as a 'seed offering'
( the poor are to give as much as possible of course)
which will then 'grow'
and will magically make them wealthy,
by having given.
OH and they need to keep on giving naturally.
What some false teachers draw on from scripture is to say:
Look at how God prospered David ( a man after his own heart),
Solomon etc.
and then they say...
So see, God wants to prosper His beloved...
and you.
But they neglect, the other parts of the Bible,
where many of His beloved prophets were poor
( and let's not forget Jesus)
Jesus said to him,
“The foxes have holes and the birds of the air have nests,
but the Son of Man has nowhere to lay His head
Matthew 8:20
Nor do they point out,
that the riches
(the few people of God's beloved,)
in scripture had.....
did not keep them from sorrows
or really help them be more godly.
They also focus on having your 'best life' now,
healed, as well as rich.
Yet the Bible warns to be cautious
about aiming to be wealthy because:
16 Be not afraid when a man becomes rich,
when the glory of his house increases.
17 For when he dies he will carry nothing away;
his glory will not go down after him.
Psalm 49:16,17
And often even worse, they may add
techniques such as visualization ( just see your self as wealthy)
Anything to bolster the old get rich quick idea.
The idea is that being greedy becomes.... really 'spiritual'.
But what often happensit is the false teacher gets rich
while his greedy followers grow poorer
A stingy man hastens after wealth
and does not know that poverty will come upon him
Proverbs 28:22
This focus on money is extremely worldly
and not much is said about where will you spend eternity.
You are too focused on material gain, here, in this life.
How is this different from a secular non-believer?
Only the false teacher will say:
But God loves you so much He wants to 'best 'for you....
(which is to be like a spoiled child,
who is not taught compassion, pity, loyalty, holiness, obedience etc.)
Things like take up your cross:
23 And he said to all, “If anyone would come after me,
let him deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me.
Luke 9:23
be born again,
repent,
be transformed:
22 to put off your old self
which belongs to your former manner of life
and is corrupt through deceitful desires,
23 and to be renewed in the spirit of your minds,
Ephesians 4:22,23
are not mentioned.
Rather, this type of false gospel
demands that God blesses me with wealth and health.
God is treated like a genii in a bottle.
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Post by evafromgreece on Dec 16, 2021 16:23:57 GMT -5
And false teaching is extremely popular...
Loud prayers... Very loud prayers. Miracles that are not really true. Of course I am not saying that miracles cannot happen... But no. I won't believe anyone that says he touched someone and suddenly healed in a moment. It seems a lot of them are trying to create a show.... And it's sad.
For me tongues are also part of false teaching. Again it happened back then. It was a way for the disciples to spread the word. But... When we are saved we have the Holy Spirit in us. Not by the time of speaking tongues. And all these are extremely popular.
Because it is a show.... And people are attracted by this.
And Jesus had nothing to do with creating a show. Hard times are not popular...
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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Post by fearnot on Dec 20, 2021 11:05:25 GMT -5
Eva: I totally agree with all you said. And it is sad indeed, but also sadly there has always been false teachers with their false teaching, and if anything, they are increasing these days.
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Post by Cindy on Dec 20, 2021 13:29:13 GMT -5
I liked what you wrote Barbara, it was really good!
OK, I guess we should tackle predestination and election now. But before I start, I need to explain something to you that I explained to my granddaughter. Right now, we have a finite mind, and that mind is corrupted by sin. That's why we can't understand the things of God without the help and teaching of the Holy Spirit. We have no way of relating to things that are supernatural and infinite with our finite minds. When we study God's Word, it helps us understand the things of God as much as we are capable of with the mind we have, but we won't really understand things until we get our new bodies and our minds are completely cleansed and renewed. That happens when we get to Heaven. While there are many things in the Bible that we are able to understand fairly well...like submitting to our husband, or forgiving people who have hurt us, there are also things we simply cannot understand, and won't be able to in this life. Predestination and election are subjects that we can only partially grasp now. For the parts we don't understand we simply have to know that we can trust that God loves us and will use everything for our good, and that He will help us understand when we get to heaven.
Ok, lets start by looking at a few scriptures. I realize that your Bible doesn't number the verses the same way our Bibles do, so if you look something up in your bible, it may wind up being the wrong verse. Plus, your Bible is worded very strangely at times, and I want to do all I can to help you understand this topic. (this topic is confusing enough without adding additional confusion to it!)  So if you hover your mouse over the scripture reference (like John 3:16) the words of that scripture will appear in a pop up window, that way you can know for sure what scripture I'm talking about.
“And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose. For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.” (Romans 8:28–30)
foreknew. Not a reference simply to God’s omniscience—that in eternity past He knew who would come to Christ. Rather, it speaks of a predetermined choice to set His love on us and established an intimate relationship—or His election. predestined. Lit. “to mark out, appoint, or determine beforehand.” Those God chooses, He destines for His chosen end—that is, likeness to His Son. The goal of God’s predestined purpose for His own is that they would be made like Jesus Christ. This is the “prize for which God has called me heavenward” (“I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus.” Philippians 3:14). Jesus Christ is the most notable one among those who have become “brothers” by being made like Him.
“For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love he predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will—” (Ephesians 1:4–5)
The form of the Gr. verb behind “chose” indicates that God not only chose by Himself but for Himself to the praise of His own glory (Ephesians 1:6, Ephesians 1:12, Ephesians 1:14). God’s election or predestination does not operate apart from or nullify man’s responsibility to believe in Jesus as Lord and Savior (Matt 3:1-2; Matt 4:17; John 5:40).
He chose us. The doctrine of election is emphasized throughout Scripture: Deuteronomy 7:6, John 6:44, Isaiah 45:4, Acts 13:48, Romans 8:29, Romans 9:11, 1 Thessalonians 1:3–4, 2 Thessalonians 2:13. before the creation of the world. Through God’s sovereign will before the creation of the world and, therefore, obviously independent of human influence and apart from any human merit, those who are saved have become eternally united with Christ Jesus. (1 Peter 1:20; Rev 13:8; Rev 17:8.) holy and blameless in His sight. This describes both a purpose and a result of God’s choosing those who are to be saved. Unrighteous persons are declared righteous, unworthy sinners are declared worthy of salvation, all because they are chosen “in Him” (Christ). This refers to Christ’s imputed righteousness granted to us (see notes on 2 Cor 5:21; Php 3:9), a perfect righteousness which places believers in a holy and blameless position before God (Ephesians 5:27; Col 2:10), though daily living inevitably falls far short of His holy standard. In love. This phrase belongs at the start of v. 5, since it introduces the divine motive for God’s elective purpose.
He predestined us to be adopted as His sons. Human parents can bestow their love, resources, and inheritance on an adopted child, but not their own distinct characteristics. But God miraculously gives His own nature to those whom He has elected and who have trusted in Christ. He makes them His children in the image of His divine Son, giving them not just Christ’s riches and blessings but also His very nature (Jn 15:15; Ro 8:15).
“who have been chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through the sanctifying work of the Spirit, for obedience to Jesus Christ and sprinkling by his blood: Grace and peace be yours in abundance.” (1 Peter 1:2)
foreknowledge. The same Gr. word is translated “foreknown” in 1 Peter 1:20. In both verses, the word does not refer to awareness of what is going to happen, but it clearly means a predetermined relationship in the knowledge of the Lord. God brought the salvation relationship into existence by decreeing it into existence ahead of time. Christians are foreknown for salvation in the same way Christ was foreordained before the foundation of the world to be a sacrifice for sins (cf. Ac 2:23). “Foreknowledge” means that God planned before, not that He observed before (cf. Ex 33:17; Jer 1:5; Am 3:2; Mt 7:23). Thus, God pre-thought and pre-determined or predestined each Christian’s salvation. sanctifying work of the Spirit. To sanctify means “to consecrate,” “to set apart.” The objective of election is salvation, which comes to the elect through the sanctifying work of the Spirit. The Holy Spirit thus makes God’s chosen holy, by savingly setting them apart from sin and unbelief unto faith and righteousness (1 Thessalonians 1:4; 2 Thessalonians 2:13). Sanctification thus begins with justification (declaring the sinner just before God by graciously imputing Christ’s righteousness to him, Php 3:9), and continues as a process of purification that goes on until glorification, when the Christian sees Jesus face to face. for obedience. Believers are set apart from sin to God in order that they might obey Jesus Christ. True salvation produces obedience to Christ (Eph 2:10; 1 Thess 1:4–10). sprinkling by His blood. This phrase is based on Moses’ sprinkling sacrificial blood on the people of Israel as a symbol sealing their covenant as they promised to obey God’s Word. Likewise, in the New Covenant, faith in the shedding of Christ’s blood on the cross not only activates God’s promise to give the believer perfect atonement for sin, but also brings the believer into the covenant by one’s promise of obedience to the Lord and His Word.
“All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away.” (John 6:37)
All that the Father gives Me will come to Me. This verse emphasizes the sovereign will of God in the selection of those who come to Him for salvation (John 6:44, John 6:65; John 17:6, John 17:12, John 17:24). The Father has predestined those who would be saved. The absolute sovereignty of God is the basis of Jesus’ confidence in the success of His mission (Php 1:6). The security of salvation rests in the sovereignty of God, for God is the guarantee that “all” He has chosen will come to Him for salvation. The idea of “gives Me” is that every person chosen by God and drawn by God (John 6:44) must be seen as a gift of the Father’s love to the Son. The Son receives each “love gift” (John 6:37), holds on to each (John 6:39), and will raise each to eternal glory (John 6:39-40). No one chosen will be lost (see notes on Ro 8:31–39). This saving purpose is the Father’s will which the Son will not fail to do perfectly (John 6:38; John 4:34; John 10:28-29; John 17:6, John 17:12, John 17:24).
““Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world.” (Matthew 25:34)
prepared for you. This terminology underscores that their salvation is a gracious gift of God, not something merited by the deeds described in Matthew 25:35-36. Before “the creation of the world,” they were chosen by God and ordained to be holy (Eph 1:4)—predestined to be conformed to Christ’s image (Rom 8:29). So the good deeds commended in vv. 35, 36 are the fruit, not the root of their salvation. The deeds are not the basis for their entrance into the kingdom, but merely manifestations of God’s grace in their lives. They are the objective criteria for judgment, because they are the evidence of saving faith (James 2:14–26).
“also we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to His purpose who works all things after the counsel of His will,” (Ephesians 1:11) I used the NASB version for this one.
we have obtained an inheritance. Christ is the source of the believer’s divine inheritance, which is so certain that it is spoken of as if it has already been received. having been predestined. Before the earth was formed, God sovereignly determined that every elect sinner—however vile, useless, and deserving of death—by trusting in Christ would be made righteous. who works all things. The word translated “works” is the same one from which “energy,” “energetic,” and “energize” are derived. When God created the world, He gave it sufficient energy to begin immediately to operate as He had planned. It was not simply ready to function, but was created functioning. As God works out His plan according to “the counsel of His will,” He energizes every believer with the power necessary for his spiritual completion (Phil 1:6; Phil 2:13).
I used The MacArthur Study Bible for all of the above quotes about the scriptures. I'm going to just let you reflect on these for today and tomorrow we can start digging into the subjects of predestination and election.
But let me assure you of one thing immediately: While God does choose those of us that He saves even before we are born, He does not ever choose those who will go to Hell. That happens because of each persons own choice, not God's!
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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Post by fearnot on Dec 20, 2021 18:45:43 GMT -5
wow! That was super great! Thank you for all the work you put into that!
My swelling in my hand is almost completely normal....so I should be able to join in tomorrow!
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Post by Cindy on Dec 21, 2021 10:05:36 GMT -5
I'm glad you're doing better Barbara.
Eva, I'll wait until you've read what I wrote above about predestination before I add anymore to it. Please let me know if you have any questions about what I've said so far OK.
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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Post by fearnot on Dec 21, 2021 15:44:38 GMT -5
I know this subject can get some people in a dither and very angry.
So I won't add much either, until Eva has read what you wrote.
I have often heard this as an answer,
when people, get angry at God,
and say:
Why would God save some sinners and not everyone?
One answer that always made sense to me was:
God did not have to save anyone,
( not even one person)
the fact that He saves as many as He does, in a blessing
and loving kindness beyond understanding.
There are those who demand that salvation, is totally a person's
free choice, free will, and they grieve and are furious
at the thought, God would only choose some and not all.
And I can understand that feeling.
The very idea our loved ones, who scorn God,
mock, Him and Christians, or perhaps even worse,
simple do not care....
may be headed for an eternity in Hell
is for me basically often beyond being able to bear.
And I wonder from time to time,
Couldn't God just make them believe
After all He did choose some before the beginning of time
So.....?
In a major way, that is me wanting to be God,
or be the boss of God,
to be God myself,
and force Him to do my will,
based on my emotions.
But there is a Hell,
for the fallen angels
and
for
sinners that are not saved.
All things have been handed over to Me by My Father;
and no one knows the Son except the Father;
nor does anyone know the Father except the Son,
and anyone to whom the Son wills to reveal Him
Matthew 11:27
and there is this verse
For many are called, but few are chosen
Matthew 22:14
But I won't add any more,
because Cindy wants to be sure
we understand and pondered it so far.
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Post by Cindy on Dec 22, 2021 12:58:40 GMT -5
Very true Barbara! 
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Post by evafromgreece on Dec 22, 2021 16:58:44 GMT -5
Hello!
I have read this 2 times and it seems really difficult to me to understand so I believe I need some more time. I am not sure if the subject makes it this hard for me to understand, or the language or maybe both.
So before I read it the 3rd time, I think I understand that God created us and because He is God He knows what we were going to do, but that does not mean He made us choose sin let's say. He created Eva and He knew that she would sin, but He did not make her make that choice for example.
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Post by Cindy on Dec 23, 2021 11:03:20 GMT -5
Hello! I have read this 2 times and it seems really difficult to me to understand so I believe I need some more time. I am not sure if the subject makes it this hard for me to understand, or the language or maybe both. So before I read it the 3rd time, I think I understand that God created us and because He is God He knows what we were going to do, but that does not mean He made us choose sin let's say. He created Eva and He knew that she would sin, but He did not make her make that choice for example.
DIVINELY CHOSEN AND CALLED
“I, therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, entreat you to walk in a manner worthy of the calling with which you have been called.” EPHESIANS 4:1
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We didn’t choose God; He chose us.
What is “the calling with which [we] have been called”? It is simply the position we have now as Christians. Paul said the Christians at Corinth were “saints by calling” (1 Cor. 1:2). Peter instructed his readers to make certain about God’s calling and choosing them (2 Peter 1:10). Our calling is a high calling (Phil. 3:14), “a holy calling” (2 Tim. 1:9), and “a heavenly calling” (Heb. 3:1).
Who called us? Jesus has the answer: “No one can come to Me, unless the Father who sent Me draws him” (John 6:44). Jesus also said, “You did not choose Me, but I chose you” (15:16). Those “whom [God] predestined, these He also called; and whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified” (Rom. 8:30). God called out to us, we responded in faith, and He saved us.
Suppose after investigating all the different religions of the world, a person chose Christianity. If Christianity were nothing more than a simple, personal choice to be saved, this person would have a certain level of commitment—that is, “Since I’ve decided to do it, it’s worth doing.” But if I’m a Christian because before the world began, the sovereign God of the universe chose me to spend eternity in His presence, that creates a much greater level of commitment.
If a single woman approached a bachelor, told him he had characteristics she admired, and asked him if he would be interested in marrying her, there would be something missing in that courtship. But suppose he approaches this woman first and says, “I have gone from one end of the world to the other, and your character and beauty surpass all others. Will you marry me?” We know then that nothing is missing.
Magnify that illustration by considering God’s perspective. We didn’t ask God if we could get in on a salvation deal. Out of all the people in the world, He chose us to receive His mercy! That’s a high, holy, heavenly calling. Such a calling demands a response of commitment, doesn’t it?
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Suggestions for Prayer: Thank God for His grace in choosing and calling you.
For Further Study: Read Romans 8:29–39. How did Paul respond to the knowledge of God’s calling for his life? ✧ How should God’s calling affect your attitude?
“For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified. What, then, shall we say in response to this? If God is for us, who can be against us? He who did not spare his own Son, but gave him up for us all—how will he not also, along with him, graciously give us all things? Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies. Who is he that condemns? Christ Jesus, who died—more than that, who was raised to life—is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword? As it is written: “For your sake we face death all day long; we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered.” No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.” (Romans 8:29–39)
MacArthur, John, Strength for Today
HOPE OF GLORY
“We exult in hope of the glory of God. And not only this, but we also exult in our tribulations, knowing that tribulation brings about perseverance; and perseverance, proven character; and proven character, hope; and hope does not disappoint.” ROMANS 5:2–5
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God promises all believers that one day they will receive Christ’s glory.
The security that every believer desires in his or her salvation is founded on the very fact that God is the author of salvation—every aspect of it is solely His work, and thus it cannot be lost. The final piece of God’s great work is the ultimate glorification of every Christian: “Whom [God] foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the first–born among many brethren; and whom He predestined, these He also called; and whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified” (Rom. 8:29–30).
This third link in the chain that eternally binds believers to Christ completes the three aspects of salvation. Paul already established that salvation is anchored in the past because Christ made peace with God. It is anchored in the present because Christ continually intercedes for every believer and establishes our standing in grace. Here Paul proclaims that salvation is also anchored in the future because God promises His children that one day they will be clothed with the glory of His Son.
The Greek word for “exult” in Romans 5:2 refers to jubilation and rejoicing. Every believer ought to rejoice in the future rather than fearing it, because Jesus Christ secured the hope that his ultimate destiny is to share in the very glory of God. Christ is the guarantee of our hope because He Himself is our hope (1 Tim. 1:1).
We also have another reason to rejoice in the hope of glory: our tribulations contribute to our present blessing and ultimate glory. Paul states in Romans 5:3–5 that our afflictions for Christ’s sake produce increasing levels of maturity in handling the trials of life. As you continue to pursue holiness, the more you will be persecuted and troubled, but the greater will be your hope as you see God sustain you through His all–powerful grace.
MacArthur, John, Strength for Today
LIVING OUT YOUR ROYAL HERITAGE
“In love [God] predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will” (Eph. 1:4–5).
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Because God loves you, He adopted you as His child and grants you all the rights and privileges of family membership.
Moses told Israel that God didn’t choose them because of their great numbers or any inherent goodness on their part, but as an expression of God’s sovereign will and sacrificial love (Deut. 7:7–8). That’s true of you as well if you’re a Christian.
The Greek word translated “love” in Ephesians 1:4 speaks not of emotional or sentimental love but of love that seeks God’s best for others at any cost. It is marked by sacrifice rather than selfishness—giving rather than receiving. It seeks to forgive rather than condemn—to dismiss offenses rather than count them.
Such love is epitomized in God Himself, who loved you so much that He sacrificed His Son on your behalf as He willingly laid down His own life for you (John 3:16; 15:13).
While false gods are worshiped out of fear and ignorance, the true God—your Heavenly Father—has eliminated all fear so that you can confidently enter into His presence (Heb. 10:19; 1 John 4:18). You have “received a spirit of adoption” and can address Him as “Abba! Father!” (Rom. 8:15), Abba being the Aramaic equivalent of “Daddy” or “Papa.”
Your Heavenly Father delights in your praise and glories in your obedience. Be a faithful child. Make this day count for Him. Live out your royal heritage. Seek His wisdom in all you do. Go to His Word, and follow its counsel. Demonstrate His love to others in practical ways.
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Suggestions for Prayer: Thank God for granting you the privilege of being a member of His family. ✧ Thank Him for the many manifestations of His love that you enjoy each day. ✧ Ask Him to lead you to someone to whom you can demonstrate His love in a practical and sacrificial way.
For Further Study: Read 1 Corinthians 13. ✧ List the characteristics of godly love. ✧ How does the quality of your love for others compare to God’s standard? What steps can you take today to bring your love into greater conformity to His?
PRAISING GOD FOR YOUR ELECTION
“Having been predestined according to [God’s] purpose who works all things after the counsel of His will” (Eph. 1:11).
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God took the initiative in salvation by choosing you and granting you saving faith.
In Ephesians 1:4 Paul says that God “chose us in [Christ] before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before Him.” In verse 11 he reiterates that marvelous truth by affirming that believers have been predestined to salvation according to God’s own purpose and will.
Many reject the teaching that God chose (“predestined”) believers to salvation. They think believers chose God. In one sense they’re right. Salvation involves an act of the will in turning from sin to embrace Christ. But the issue in predestination goes deeper than that. It’s a question of initiative. Did God choose you on the basis of your faith in Him, or did He, by choosing you, enable you to respond in faith?
The answer is clear in Scripture. Romans 3:11 says that no one seeks for God on his own. Unregenerate people have no capacity to understand spiritual truth; it’s all foolishness to them (1 Cor. 2:14). They are spiritually dead (Eph. 2:1), blind (2 Cor. 4:4), and ignorant (Eph. 4:18).
How can people in that condition initiate saving faith? They can’t! That’s why Jesus said, “No one can come to Me, unless the Father who sent Me draws him. … All that the Father gives Me shall come to Me; and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out” (John 6:44, 37). Paul added, “God … has saved us, and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was granted us in Christ Jesus from all eternity” (2 Tim. 1:8–9).
God took the initiative. He chose you and gave you saving faith (Eph. 2:8–9). Rejoice in that truth. Rest in His power to conform all things to His will. Draw strength and assurance from His promise never to let you go (John 10:27–29). Then live each day as God’s elected one by shunning sin and following after holiness.
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Suggestions for Prayer: Praise God for placing His love upon you and for granting you salvation. ✧ Pray for the salvation of others, and seek opportunities to share Christ with them today.
For Further Study: Read Ezekiel 36:22–32. ““Therefore say to the house of Israel, ‘This is what the Sovereign LORD says: It is not for your sake, O house of Israel, that I am going to do these things, but for the sake of my holy name, which you have profaned among the nations where you have gone. I will show the holiness of my great name, which has been profaned among the nations, the name you have profaned among them. Then the nations will know that I am the LORD, declares the Sovereign LORD, when I show myself holy through you before their eyes. “ ‘For I will take you out of the nations; I will gather you from all the countries and bring you back into your own land. I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your impurities and from all your idols. I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws. You will live in the land I gave your forefathers; you will be my people, and I will be your God. I will save you from all your uncleanness. I will call for the grain and make it plentiful and will not bring famine upon you. I will increase the fruit of the trees and the crops of the field, so that you will no longer suffer disgrace among the nations because of famine. Then you will remember your evil ways and wicked deeds, and you will loathe yourselves for your sins and detestable practices. I want you to know that I am not doing this for your sake, declares the Sovereign LORD. Be ashamed and disgraced for your conduct, O house of Israel!” (Ezekiel 36:22–32) ✧ Why will God one day redeem Israel? ✧ What does that passage teach you about God’s initiative in salvation?
PROCLAIMING GOD’S PREEMINENCE
We were predestined “to the end that we who were the first to hope in Christ should be to the praise of His glory” (Eph. 1:12).
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In salvation, as in everything else, God is preeminent. He deserves all the credit.
The word preeminence implies supreme standing, picturing one who excels over all others in a particular quality or achievement. Only God is truly preeminent, worthily so.
Ephesians 1:12 underscores that truth. You were redeemed and were granted an eternal inheritance so that God might be glorified. Certainly you benefit greatly from salvation, but God’s glory is the primary issue.
Our man-centered culture doesn’t share that perspective. Sadly, its self-seeking and self-glorifying mentality has crept into the church, and even the gospel itself has been subjected to its influence. For example, sin is often defined by how it affects man, not by how it dishonors God. Salvation is often presented as a means of receiving what Christ offers, not as a mandate to obey what He commands. Many modern-day evangelists have reduced the gospel to little more than a formula by which people can live a happy and more fulfilling life. The focus has shifted from God’s glory to man’s benefit.
Such a convoluted gospel fuels the fire of self-love and self-exaltation.
As believers we know better than that. We know that the purpose of life is to glorify God. In other words, living to His glory is to govern everything we do.
What higher or more noble purpose could life afford? “Forgetting what lies behind and reaching forward to what lies ahead,” Paul said, “I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus” (Phil. 3:13–14). Keep that goal clearly in mind in all you do today. By doing so, your day will be “to the praise of [God’s] glory.”
✧✧✧
Suggestions for Prayer: Praise God for His preeminence in all things. ✧ Pray for opportunities to speak of His preeminence to others, remembering that they will see Him in your actions as well as in your words.
MacArthur, John F., Jr., Drawing Near—Daily Readings for a Deeper Faith
DIVINE SOVEREIGNTY AND HUMAN CHOICE
Judas’ role was not apart from his own will. Even though God ordained him as the disciple who would betray Christ, it was not apart from the desire of Judas. Judas was no robot. Our Lord did not simply allocate to an unwilling Judas the part of the villain in the crucifixion. Such a thing would be inconsistent with the character of Jesus Christ. It is also inconsistent with the historical record. During Jesus’ ministry, He endeavored to drive Judas to repentance, time and time again, with His love, His pleas, and His rebukes. So although Judas’ treachery fit into the plan of God, God did not design him as a treacherous man. He became a traitor to Christ by his own choice. God merely took Judas, wretched and treacherous as he was, and fitted him into His plan. If God were responsible for making Judas what he was, Jesus would have pitied him rather than rebuked him. Judas Iscariot, then, in accordance with his own will, was the chosen instrument of God to betray Christ and help bring about His death.
WALKING WITH JESUS BUT FOLLOWING SATAN
Judas, through his life of treachery, supplies sinners with a solemn warning. We learn from the example of Judas that a person can be very near to Jesus Christ and yet be lost and damned forever. Nobody was ever closer to Christ than the Twelve. Judas was one of them, but he is nevertheless in hell today. While he may have given intellectual assent to the truth, he never embraced Christ with heartfelt faith.
Judas wasn’t deceived; he was a phony. He understood the truth, and he posed as a believer. Furthermore, he was good at what he did—the cleverest hypocrite we read about in all the Scriptures, for no one ever suspected him. He had everyone fooled except Jesus, who knew his heart.
Wherever God’s work is done, there are impostors like Judas. There will always be hypocrites among the brethren. The favorite trick of Satan and those he employs is to “transform themselves into ministers of righteousness” (2 Cor. 11:15). The devil is a master at making his work look good—and he is busily at work among the Lord’s people.
MacArthur, John F., Jr., How to Survive in a World of Unbelievers: Jesus’ Words of Encouragement on the Night before His Death
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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Post by fearnot on Dec 23, 2021 13:57:05 GMT -5
Some super excellent choices you choose from MacArthur to explain this...
thank you!
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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Post by fearnot on Dec 23, 2021 15:09:32 GMT -5
I know that when I think of people suffering for eternity in Hell,
it is sometimes beyond my ability
to see the righteous justice in it.
and yet, when I read God's word,
then I begin to see, it is just.
28 And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer
God gave them over to a depraved mind,
to do those things which are not proper
29 being filled with all unrighteousness,
wickedness, greed, evil;
full of envy, murder, strife,
deceit, malice;
they are gossips,
30 slanderers,
haters of God,
insolent, arrogant, boastful,
inventors of evil,
disobedient to parents,
31 without understanding, untrustworthy,
unloving, unmerciful;
32 and although they know the ordinance of God,
that those who practice such things are worthy of death,
they not only do the same,
but also give hearty approval to those who practice them.
Romans 1:28-32
However, I also see myself as sometimes 'trying' to
out mercy God!
It's as if I fancy myself, as having more compassion for those in Hell than God.
Talk about
'virtual signaling'!
I have had at times, the audacity to feel almost superior to God
because I have such deep pity on those in Hell.
Of course, I am ignoring the justice of it:
Woe to the wicked! It will go badly with him,
For what he deserves will be done to him
Isaiah 3:11
and
Your eyes are too pure to approve evil,
And You can not look on wickedness with favor.....
Habakkuk 1:13
But also with my foolish 'virtual signaling'
I am not acknowledging God's true love, mercy, compassion and pity,
that is so far above mine
as to be like a my pity being like one atom,
to God's pity, love, compassion etc to infinity'
God's mercy is totally 100% pure,
which shows how foolish,
and sinful I can be.
For I have no pleasure in the death of anyone who dies,”
declares the Lord God.
“Therefore, repent and live
Ezekiel 18:32
Have we ever noticed that many
( not all)
of the rich and wealthy
can be cruel, arrogant, haughty, cruel, superior acting, etc.
I tend to think, if you have more money
than is ever possible to spend,
in your lifetime,
and you can have whatever you want
when ever you want it...
it can become easy to believe
you don't need God
you are the Captain of your own ship.
And so
Listen, my beloved brethren:
did not God 'choose' the poor of this world
to be rich in faith
and heirs of the kingdom
which He promised to those who love Him
James 2:5
Which reminds me that God gives the rich
their pleasures while on this earth, even tho,
they deny Him.
19 “Now there was a rich man, and he habitually dressed in purple and fine linen, joyously living in splendor every day.....
25 But Abraham said, ‘Child, remember that during your life you received your good things,
and likewise Lazarus bad things;
but now he is being comforted here, and you are in agony
Luke 16:19,25
Which interestingly, we have no problem
with God's CHOOSING
to give us gifts
( be it to the poor or rich)!
17 Every good thing given
and every perfect gift
is from above,
coming down from the Father of lights,
with whom there is no variation or shifting shadow
James 1:17
As long as the gifts are material, and will make us comfy,
most people are happy to receive God's 'choosing' to give us gifts.
However, there is one gift from above
many people say: No to,
being a Christian, born again,
having Jesus die and pay for our sins,
and being a follower and disciple of Jesus.
In another way, mankind balks at God choosing anything
(except His giving us gifts)
But as far as salvation,
we would rather it be that God wrings His hands,
begging and pleading with us to choose Him.
Thus we want to believe, we are totally in charge of our salvation
and that we alone, make the decision to go to Heaven or Hell
so in essence, we are like little gods.
But the truth is, no one would choose God on his or her own!
I have often thought that perhaps, in some way,
a very definite 'choice' was made in the garden of Eden.
Eva you mentioned Eve ( and that would include Adam yes) :).
For a time they were perfectly without sin.
And then, came a time of 'choice'
of choosing:
God or Satan?
I think they were our best representatives.
We might think, in hind sight:
Well the devil would not have fooled me
I would not have made the choice they did!
But I believe we fool ourselves, if we think that.
We have the benefit of seeing what their choice wrought,
And we have sin from the moment of concept.
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Post by Cindy on Dec 27, 2021 12:34:32 GMT -5
Well said Barbara. Eva, let me know what questions you have and I'll try to answer them ok?
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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Post by fearnot on Dec 27, 2021 15:04:42 GMT -5
I sometimes cannot wrap my mind around the fact,
that if God did not choose or call some sinners,
none would ever choose God to save them.
In fact, I suppose if God gave us full 100% choice
and He did in fact, 'beg' us, reason with us, stay with us,
showing us miracles, giving us blessings etc.
every moment of our lives
Sinners would say: NO!
I think they would have so many reasons like:
I don't want you to be the boss of me!
( pride, arrogance, rebellion against any authority but themselves)
or
I am so smart, I no longer believe in
'fairy tales, Santa Claus, the Easter bunny
nor especially God,
I believe is 'SCIENCE' because I am a genius!
Also
You, Your Word, Your kingdom is 'boring'
I don't want to sit on a cloud playing a harp for all eternity
( where they get that idea I don't know..
however, if God had not called me, I would be saying most of these things)
Sin is at least fun and exciting.
They might say:
I don't want you because you are mean, angry and not 'fair'.
or perhaps
I prefer other 'gods' that I deem are way more interesting,
For example,
they like the idea they had 'past lives'
where they were princesses and princes etc etc.
or
they would rather travel the universe
and commune with aliens
Or they might say:
I prefer my horoscopes, meditation and yoga, karma, etc. etc.
The list is endless
sinner would never choose
God on their own.
10 as it is written:
“None is righteous, no, not one;
11 no one understands;
no one seeks for God.
Romans 3:10,11
and
No one can come to Me
unless
the Father who sent Me draws him;
and I will raise him up on the last day.
John 6:44
Mankind died 'spiritually'
as well as, physically in the Garden of Eden.
The physically part took awhile before our bodies
were dead, but dying began and all die.
But sinners also won't choose Jesus and salvation
because they are dead....spiritually dead.
2 And you were dead
in the trespasses and sins
Ephesians 2:1
And having Satan as their father,
they were slaves to their sins:
You are of your father the devil,
and your will is to do your father's desires.
He was a murderer from the beginning,
and does not stand in the truth,
because there is no truth in him.
When he lies, he speaks out of his own character,
for he is a liar and the father of lies
John 8:44
And
Jesus answered them,
“Truly, truly, I say to you,
everyone who practices sin is a slave to sin.
John 8:34
Also
And you, who once were alienated
and hostile in mind,
doing evil deeds
Colossians1:21
Many sinners would take issue with the verse above
saying, their deeds were NOT evil
but rather
it is not 'sin' but rather.....their 'rights'
they were born that way.....
And in one sense,
that is true,
they were 'born that way'....
in that we are born sinners.
Of course, the fact, they are inclined towards
one or more sin, does not excuse the sin, by saying:
I was 'born that way'.
Those that are worldly,
sinners
and not godly,
cannot
choose God.
For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God,
for it does not submit to God's law;
indeed,
it cannot
Romans 8:7
This is another reason why they will not,
and cannot choose God
In their case the god of this world
has blinded the minds of the unbelievers,
to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel
of the glory of Christ,
who is the image of God
2 Corinthians 4:4
However, thankfully:
For while we were still weak,
at the right time
Christ died for the ungodly
Romans 5:6
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Post by evafromgreece on Dec 27, 2021 17:32:37 GMT -5
About election. I would say… once you belong to God you belong to Him. Even though , sadly , someone chooses to turn his back to God, if he belongs to God the person will come back sooner or later… The same way a person who pretends to have faith, if it is fake it will be revealed sooner or later.
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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Post by fearnot on Dec 28, 2021 12:41:59 GMT -5
I agree Eva, there are some true born again Christians who for some reason, get angry at God, and 'walk away' sad and in a snit.....
but if they are truly God's children they will come back.
On the other hand, there can be those who claim to be Christians, but are not, and if they walk away, it is because they never were saved and born again Christians to begin with.
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Post by Cindy on Dec 29, 2021 12:16:09 GMT -5
Eva, let me know what questions you have and I'll try to answer them ok?
Barbara, on an earlier post you said something I meant to ask you about and forgot to. You said:
"But also with my foolish 'virtual signaling'
I am not acknowledging God's true love, mercy, compassion and pity,
that is so far above mine
as to be like a my pity being like one atom,
to God's pity, love, compassion etc to infinity'
God's mercy is totally 100% pure,
which shows how foolish,
and sinful I can be."
What in the world is "virtual signaling"?
Then, in your last post you said:In fact, I suppose if God gave us full 100% choice
and He did in fact, 'beg' us, reason with us, stay with us,
showing us miracles, giving us blessings etc.
every moment of our lives
Sinners would say: NO!
That's absolutely true, but you used the wrong word which could lead other people to think that it isn't always true. You said "you suppose" instead of stating it as a fact. Because of that, for the sake of any others who may read this thread at some time, I'd like to clarify it and talk about it a little more.
There's no supposing about it. God tells us that people who are not saved, and that's what everyone on this earth is until God opens their minds to His gospel and softens their hearts to receive it.
“Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me.” (Psalm 51:5)
“To the pure, all things are pure, but to those who are corrupted and do not believe, nothing is pure. In fact, both their minds and consciences are corrupted.” (Titus 1:15)
It's hard for us to believe this about every person on the planet, including our self, but it's true. We are all sinners from birth on, and our minds and consciences are corrupted. We naturally don't want anything to do with God. He's like an enemy to us, because we love our sins more than anything or anyone. See what this scripture says: “Once you were alienated from God and were enemies in your minds because of your evil behavior. But now he has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation—” (Colossians 1:21–22)
This subject concerns both predestination and election. The two go together. Sinners can't choose to be saved, because their hearts are hardened against God and wants to do things that God says are sins. “You see, at just the right time, when we were still powerless, Christ died for the ungodly. Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous man, though for a good man someone might possibly dare to die. But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.” (Romans 5:6–8)
““No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day.” (John 6:44) This pretty much describes it all: “As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our sinful nature and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature objects of wrath. But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved.” (Ephesians 2:1–5)
I found a good article about election in my library that I'd like to add as well:
Election is a wonderful doctrine. However, it is not a call to favoritism, but a call to be a channel, a tool, or means of others’ redemption! In the OT the term was used primarily for service; in the NT it is used primarily for salvation which issues in service. The Bible never reconciles the seeming contradiction between God’s sovereignty and mankind’s free will, but affirms them both. A good example of the biblical tension would be Romans 9 on God’s sovereign choice and Romans 10 on mankind’s necessary response (cf. 10:11, 13). Both doctrines are presented contextually side-by-side, with no attempt to reconcile them.
The key to this theological tension may be found in Eph. 1:4. Jesus is God’s elect man and all humans are potentially elect in Him. Jesus is God’s “yes” to fallen mankind’s need. Ephesians 1:4 also helps clarify the issue by asserting that the goal of predestination is not heaven later, but holiness (Christlikeness) now. We are often attracted to the benefits of the gospel and ignore the responsibilities! God’s call (election) is for time as well as eternity.
Doctrines come in relation to other truths, not as single, unrelated truths. A good analogy is a constellation versus a single star. God presents truth in eastern, not western, genres. The Bible is ancient Eastern literature. We must not remove the tension caused by dialectical (paradoxical) pairs of doctrinal truths (ex. God as transcendent versus God as immanent; security vs. perseverance; Jesus as equal with the Father vs. Jesus as subservient to the Father; Christian freedom vs. Christian responsibility to a covenant partner; etc.).
The theological concept of “covenant” unites the sovereignty of God (who always takes the initiative and sets the agenda) with a mandatory initial and continuing repentant, faith response from humanity. Be careful of proof-texting one side of the paradox and depreciating the other. Be careful of asserting only your favorite doctrine or system of theology.
Utley, Robert James, Paul’s Letters to a Troubled Church
About election. I would say… once you belong to God you belong to Him. Even though , sadly , someone chooses to turn his back to God, if he belongs to God the person will come back sooner or later… The same way a person who pretends to have faith, if it is fake it will be revealed sooner or later.
You're absolutely right Eva! LOL I just realized that I posted about election in the post above and then after you talked about election, I posted about predestination! Oh well, the two are very much linked together anyway.
Here's a good article about predestination:
The definitive passages on predestination in the NT are Rom. 8:28–30, Rom. 9, and Eph. 1:3–14. These texts obviously stress that God is sovereign. He is in total control of all things, including human history. There is a preset divine redemption plan being worked out in time. However, this plan is not arbitrary or selective. It is based not only on God’s sovereignty and foreknowledge, but also on His unchanging character of love, mercy, and undeserved grace.
Predestination is not a doctrine meant to limit God’s love, grace, and mercy, nor to exclude some from the gospel. It is meant to strengthen believers by molding their world view. God’s love is for all mankind (1 Tim. 2:4; 2 Pet. 3:9). God is in control of all things. Who or what can separate us from Him (Rom. 8:31–39)? Predestination forms one of two ways of viewing life. God views all history as present. Humans are time-bound. Our perspective and mental abilities are limited. There is no contradiction between God’s sovereignty and mankind’s free will. It is also important to add that the goal of election is not only heaven when we die, but Christlikeness now (Eph. 1:4; Eph. 2:10)! We were chosen to be “holy and blameless.” God chooses to change us so that others may see the change and respond by faith to God in Christ. Predestination is not a personal privilege, but a covenantal responsibility! We are saved to serve!
Utley, Robert James, Paul’s Letters to a Troubled Church |
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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Post by fearnot on Dec 29, 2021 13:20:27 GMT -5
I am going to read your post a bit later....I may try to get some sleep first, so I can really concentrate.
Virtue signaling can be about almost anything;
Here are just two examples:
A person might have said for example ( back when Trump was President)
He is a billionaire, and he does nothing for all the poor and homeless people.
So to virtue signal how much MORE virtuous you are,
than that stingy man, Trump
You go to a protest,
have a video taken of yourself,
and yell, and scream loudly, break shop windows, steal clothes out of the rich store owners store etc.
all to prove how much you care!
Waaaay more than Trump.
But you never give a dime to one homeless person
( they will just use it for drugs you reason)
you never serve up food in a 'soup' kitchen...
you don't have time, because you are getting your degree in college.
You have bills to pay, and you need the latest gaming computer, etc.
But you have shown the world,via you video, and signaled to it,your virtue of compassion to and for the poor,
and that 'YOU' are a far far more caring person,
than the rich evil billionaire ........because 'YOU' went tot a protest.
I just saw a video of a former 'Bay Watch' star
( never watched that series)
on an airplane....screaming at an 80 year old man
Because he did not have his mask on!
( he did not because of the drinks and refreshments)
She was soooooo caring about people not getting the big C
that she then slapped him
and scratched his face
and then.....
got within a few inches of his face ..............and spit on him, in his face!
Oh did I neglect to say,
while she was so busy 'virtue signaling'
her virtue of mask wearing,
to protect everybody
She.......
did NOT
have her mask on!
and what if she had C...she just spit in an 80 year old man's face!
And she fought with the steward and stewardesses because
she was saving the plane from Covid because of this elderly man, trying to eat his snack.
But since the video went viral,
we could all see via her virtue....signaling
that she care about everybody's life so much more than this elderly man
trying to drink his drink and eat.
Oh after calling him all sorts of names as well
He did say:
Just sit down 'Karen' !
( not her name,
but a name people now use,
for those who are so so so so scared of whatever,
and signal how virtuous they are.... by screaming at people).
You can virtue signal via videos, posts etc.
about how great and super compassionate you are about:
race,
the climate,
animals,
LBGT,
etc etc etc.
It is a way to show off how absolutely amazing you are...
and someone else is not.... and thus, is an enemy, evil etc.
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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Post by fearnot on Dec 29, 2021 14:35:06 GMT -5
I just realized I might as I have been known to do, been confusing.
My first example was just made up. I don't how much Trump gives to charity
and I don't think those who dislike him know either.
And another 'made up' example, might, could be,
some saying all Christians are hypocrites, they claim to give to charity
but either don't or are very skimpy!
And if asked directly, Christians can't
'toot their own horn'
and virtue signal like:
“1 Be careful not to practice your righteousness in front of others
to be seen by them.
If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven.
2 “So when you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets,
as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets,
to be honored by others.
Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full.
3 But when you give to the needy,
do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing,
4 so that your giving may be in secret.
Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.
Matthew 6:1-4
And that Bay Watch star may have been drunk?
But to me, that seems to demonstrate,
perhaps even more, her core fear, and feeling superior in virtue.
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Post by Cindy on Dec 30, 2021 12:18:54 GMT -5
Is it "virtue signaling" or "virtual signaling"? In the post I was asking about it you used "virtual signaling". I assume both are the same thing though. This has to be something new, as I've never heard anything called that before, and the things you describe are far from virtuous, and don't signal anything, they show outright that the person is unsaved and has a depraved mind and corrupted conscience. And you say they now use a person's personal first name of "Karen" to describe someone who's doing that??? I just looked up the name "Karen" as I just couldn't believe the corruption has gone this far already. This is what the definition said: "Karen is a pejorative term for a white woman perceived as entitled or demanding beyond the scope of what is normal. The term is a meme depicting white women who use their privilege to demand their own way." That's just plain sick too, and even worse than what you said about it.
You know how we've talked about sin and that people often sin even when they think they're "confessing" their sin to another person, because they go into great detail about what they did and said; and by doing so, it's like doing the sin all over again. I don't know this for sure, but I think that when we go into detail about the sins or possible sins of other people, like in your descriptions, that may also be a sin, even though we're saying we don't like what they did and saying that it's wrong or bad. I need to pray about this though as I'm not sure. I keep thinking about Paul and I know he shared about a number of other people's sins, but he never went into detail about them. The only time he gave any details was when he was praising someone. If he was going to go into detail, either one of these would be a good time to do it, at least most of us would have told the gory details of these sins:
“Alexander the metalworker did me a great deal of harm. The Lord will repay him for what he has done. You too should be on your guard against him, because he strongly opposed our message.” (2 Timothy 4:14–15)
“It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that does not occur even among pagans: A man has his father’s wife. And you are proud! Shouldn’t you rather have been filled with grief and have put out of your fellowship the man who did this?” (1 Corinthians 5:1–2) The only time I can think of when a sin was told in some detail was when Luke wrote about Ananias and Sapphira. (It's at the start of Acts 5). Even then though, he didn't go into any detail about what they said to each other when they made their plan to lie about the money they would get from their property, or who they sold it to, or what they planned to do with the money they kept for themselves. No, he only told what was necessary to show that they had sinned and how God punished them for it. And again, I keep going back to all the verses that speak to us about what we should allow in our minds and what we shouldn't allow. What we should dwell on and what we shouldn't. Well, I'll pray about it and if you have any thoughts about it, I'd very much like to hear them. I've got to run. Hope you feel better soon!
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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Post by fearnot on Dec 30, 2021 16:53:16 GMT -5
Spelling error on my part, it is called
virtue signaling
not virtual.... LOL
and yes it is ( as I see it)
the sin of pride..( but it may be pointing back at me, even saying this)
(sending a signal, blowing a horn, posting a post, taking a video
that is supposed to show the world
I am doing what is right and virtuous,
(like tooting your own horn...a trumpet in the streets of old)
and putting anyone who disagrees down
as
racist, sexist, uncaring etc etc.
But in actual fact, those trumpeting their virtue
don't always actual DO anything
virtuous
they just loudly proclaim to who ever might listen, that they are superior in virtues.
On the other hand, I should NOT have even said that phrase.
I realize they were made in the image of God
and may be our mission field....
and most people do not respond well
to being called on the carpet
(be they guilty or not)
For sure, there are a zillion things
I still need to be called on the carpet for...
using that saying which is....not building up,
but tearing down some people.
I doubt I would win an audience to chat with them about the gospel after that!
So, I will refrain from using that phrase any more.
Thank you for pointing it out, as not loving or caring either,
on my part.
In fact, I am thinking, that in general,
I need to speak less, listen more
and even post shorter posts......
unless it is scripture.
I need God to put a muzzle or filter on my mouth!
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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Post by fearnot on Dec 30, 2021 19:04:36 GMT -5
Here we go, this is for me ,
I knew I remembered this...
Now I just need to apply it!
Set a guard, O Lord, over my mouth;
keep watch over the door of my lips
Psalms 141:3
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Post by evafromgreece on Jan 1, 2022 15:39:30 GMT -5
Hello and have a blessed new year!
About election and predestination . I try to make my thoughts simple . I cannot express what I think in too many words, because it is a difficult topic, and also the language makes it even more difficult.
But to say what I believe I understand from all this, as simple as possible… God created us. He know the hearts of every single one of us. We are sinners from the very start of our existence, and our nature leads us to hate God and to avoid Him . We are His enemies. But He knows our hearts and the ones that knows that can saved and used for His glory, He leads them to know Him, He elects them. Why doesn’t He make people who are His enemies to turn to Him and worship Him? Couldn’t He ? He could , but He will not actually make someone to do something. We are free. And this reminds me of the time that Jesus was on the cross and the guards mocked Him and say, “if you are the Son of God, save yourself!” , He could actually. But except of the plan to save us all by His death, He would not do anything to make them stop what they chose to do. It was up to their will.
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Post by Cindy on Jan 3, 2022 12:03:41 GMT -5
Spelling error on my part, it is called
virtue signaling
not virtual.... LOL
and yes it is ( as I see it)
the sin of pride..( but it may be pointing back at me, even saying this)
(sending a signal, blowing a horn, posting a post, taking a video
that is supposed to show the world
I am doing what is right and virtuous,
(like tooting your own horn...a trumpet in the streets of old)
and putting anyone who disagrees down
as
racist, sexist, uncaring etc etc.
But in actual fact, those trumpeting their virtue
don't always actual DO anything
virtuous
they just loudly proclaim to who ever might listen, that they are superior in virtues.
On the other hand, I should NOT have even said that phrase.
I realize they were made in the image of God
and may be our mission field....
and most people do not respond well
to being called on the carpet
(be they guilty or not)
For sure, there are a zillion things
I still need to be called on the carpet for...
using that saying which is....not building up,
but tearing down some people.
I doubt I would win an audience to chat with them about the gospel after that!
So, I will refrain from using that phrase any more.
Thank you for pointing it out, as not loving or caring either,
on my part.
In fact, I am thinking, that in general,
I need to speak less, listen more
and even post shorter posts......
unless it is scripture.
I need God to put a muzzle or filter on my mouth!
No, you don't need to make shorter posts lol, you're no worse than I am, so be at peace. I think I may be the one at fault because I dislike hearing things like that. On the other hand though, hearing about it from you is better than hearing it elsewhere. And it does let me know that sin is continuing to progress like we know it will. You seem to always know the latest thing that's going on, and know all the code words that people are using too. Like antivaxxers, and karen, etc. I simply refuse to use those kind of words because I don't want to be like any one that's into those things. Just like all the years we had our old board and now this one, I've refused to use the new slang terms or whatever they should be called, like writing thanku instead of spelling it out. I guess I just want to be seen as separate from all that's going on in the world. Hello and have a blessed new year! About election and predestination . I try to make my thoughts simple . I cannot express what I think in too many words, because it is a difficult topic, and also the language makes it even more difficult. But to say what I believe I understand from all this, as simple as possible… God created us. He know the hearts of every single one of us. We are sinners from the very start of our existence, and our nature leads us to hate God and to avoid Him . We are His enemies. But He knows our hearts and the ones that knows that can saved and used for His glory, He leads them to know Him, He elects them. Why doesn’t He make people who are His enemies to turn to Him and worship Him? Couldn’t He ? He could , but He will not actually make someone to do something. We are free. And this reminds me of the time that Jesus was on the cross and the guards mocked Him and say, “if you are the Son of God, save yourself!” , He could actually. But except of the plan to save us all by His death, He would not do anything to make them stop what they chose to do. It was up to their will.
Predestination, as it is used in the Bible, refers primarily to what God does for saved people. Nowhere in the Bible are we taught that people are predestined to hell, because this word refers only to God’s people. The word simply means “to ordain beforehand, to predetermine.” Election seems to refer to people, while predestination refers to purposes. The events connected with the crucifixion of Christ were predestined (Acts 4:25–28). God has predestined our adoption (Eph 1:5), and our conformity to Christ (Rom. 8:29–30), as well as our future inheritance (Eph. 1:11). The Bible Exposition Commentary
And I just love this one!
Many people get confused (or frightened) when they hear about election and predestination. As far as the Father is concerned, I was saved when He chose me in Christ before the foundation of the world (Eph. 1:4); but I knew nothing about that the night I was saved! It was a hidden part of God’s wonderful eternal plan.
As far as God the Son is concerned, I was saved when He died for me on the cross. He died for the sins of the whole world, yet the whole world is not saved. This is where the Spirit comes in: as far as the Spirit is concerned, I was saved in May 1945 at a Youth for Christ rally where I heard Billy Graham (then a young evangelist) preach the Gospel. It was then that the Holy Spirit applied the Word to my heart, I believed, and God saved me. The Bible Exposition Commentary
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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Post by fearnot on Jan 3, 2022 12:48:06 GMT -5
Actually, although I know the words...
I personally have never called a particular person a Karen,
nor do I use virtue signaling in my conversations....
I did this time, because I think ( ?)...
I would have to go back and check...
but I 'think' I was referring to myself as doing that more often than I like...
but I think, I then went on to point to others doing the same....
So in any case,
it was wrong, no matter what!
Perhaps because, I am around 4 teens every day, and talk with hubby, and hear stuff sometimes on the news like that....
I have backed way off on the news, but not entirely :(
You may not remember, but some years ago,
I used to watch various tv series on my computer.
And I wanted to stop...
At first I only managed to stop certain ones
but still clung to a few.
Then slowly on, I began to drop the others
until...
I cannot even remember, when was the last time I watched anything like that,
it's been years.
So it seems like the same process with the news
I am in the slow down mode....
even very slowed down
but not yet stopped.
I am starting to collect the sites of those I do watch, like MacArthur's site, so I don't have to wait til it comes up on youtube
Well actually, for him,
although I do have his site now,
I do watch his videos on youtube,
because the videos seem better to look at...
the formatting or something,
gives to me, better images.
Of course the problem, other things show up on my youtube feed
and thus I do get snared, hooked, drawn in...
be it weather somewhere,
a chance of war looming with Russia and the Ukraine etc.
I am still hopeful, I will eventually get to the same point as with the series I used to watch, sometime in the past.
Still, I am amazed at how many I will see on my feed, and say to myself, nope, not interested, so I 'think' I am getting stronger at avoiding, turning away etc.
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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Post by fearnot on Jan 3, 2022 12:49:33 GMT -5
My headache is still bothering me a lot....arrgghhh
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Post by Cindy on Jan 4, 2022 11:07:13 GMT -5
I'm sorry your head is hurting hon. I hope you feel better soon. I'll pray for you for sure. I don't think you did that yourself, you were only explaining what it was and giving examples so I'd understand.
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Post by evafromgreece on Jan 6, 2022 15:33:31 GMT -5
I think now the terms of election and predestination are clear to me :)
I was wondering when was the time I was saved when I was reading the above post. I am not really sure. It's wonderful when someone does remember and know
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Post by Cindy on Jan 7, 2022 10:14:16 GMT -5
I remember when I was saved, but I don't remember the date either.
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So if you hover your mouse over the scripture reference (like John 3:16) the words of that scripture will appear in a pop up window, that way you can know for sure what scripture I'm talking about. 
!!
