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Post by Cindy on Sept 24, 2020 10:35:34 GMT -5
I want to separate what we began talking about in our other thread so it doesn't get lost and so we can continue to discuss this here. Please feel free to join in with your ideas.
I've wondered whether this covid stuff was true since it started. I've tried to be somewhat careful, but honestly, we don't live much differently now than we always have. The only difference really is that we have to wear a face covering when we go inside a public building. I found one that's so thin that I can actually see through it, so it doesn't bother me at all to wear it. Bruce has one too. I wear it when I have to in order to help those who think covid is real and dangerous and live in fear of it, feel better. I personally don't live in fear of it though. Anyway, if it's ok with you, can we talk about what we think about whether this thing is actually a pandemic or not, and what it means if it's not a pandemic?
Looking at John MacArthur stating there is no pandemic ( meaning Covid).
First, a definition of pandemic from Merriam Webster dictionary:
"an outbreak of a disease that occurs over a wide geographic area (such as multiple countries or continents) and typically affects a significant proportion of the population"
So if we look only at the first half of the definition (occurs over a wide geographic area such as multiple countries or continents)
Then Covid would be a pandemic.... as would be the yearly flu Based on only the first half of the definition
However, it is the 2nd half, that I think Pastor MacArthur is referring to.
I think it is important to figure out the truth and not suppress it for a specific outcome
[smear:#36fa35]18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. Romans 1:18[/smear:#b90b5d:0]
As to the 2nd half of the definition of a pandemic
"affects a significant proportion of the population"
Pastor MacArthur has pointed out that in California Covid ( at this point in time) has affected
1/100th of 1%
of the population in California
I have not done a search for that However the CDC did recently state:
That only 6% of all deaths that were attributed to Covid ONLY or 9,210 deaths were solely from the Covid virus
or to word it another way:
New CDC report shows 94% of COVID-19 deaths in US had contributing conditions www.wane.com/news/new-cdc-report-shows-94-of-covid-19-deaths-in-us-had-underlying-medical-conditions/
All other deaths had at least 2 or 3 other Comorbidities
Things like:
Influenza and pneumonia Respiratory failure Hypertensive disease Diabetes Vascular and unspecified dementia Cardiac arrest Heart failure Renal failure Intentional and unintentional injury, poisoning and other adverse events Other medical conditions (like cancer)
Not to mention, there have been been some false coronavirus testing numbers leading to, inflated statistics, like this one: abc7.com/orange-county-oc-false-mistake/6292928/
It is not easy in today's world to get the truth about anything.
There are sites claiming, that no mistakes happened in counting Covid cases and if anything it is waaaaay worse
So I took a look at the flu ( before covid came to be) and here is a statistic:
2017-2018 flu season was historically severe.
Public health officials estimate that 900,000 Americans were hospitalized and 80,000 died from the flu
I understand people are looking hopefully for a vaccine against Covid in order to get back to 'normal'
However this same site, shows CDC's numbers n the effectiveness for the flu from 2006-2018
The site quoted the CDC for 2017-2018
"In 2017-2018 the vaccine was directed against specific subtypes of A(H1N1), A(H3N2) and B.
The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention estimates that this vaccine was 40 percent effective in preventing influenza overall.
But, significantly, it was only 25 percent effective against the especially dangerous A(H3N2) strain.
This mismatch probably reflects the way most of the vaccines are produced". nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/worse-covid-19-flu-killed-80000-americans-last-year-145592
My point is, if we continue to close churches, out of fear of dying from covid and are willing to wait for a vaccine to protect the whole population Then as Pastor John MacArthur ( or was it his lawyer?) Said:
The government will have changed our constitutional right to worship into a privilege,
we won't be allowed to worship indoors until they find a vaccine that works 100% ( or very close) that is what it seems to me to be shaping up into
""But by the time you mobilize the distribution of the vaccine and get a majority or more of the population vaccinated and 'protected', that’s likely not going to happen until the end of 2021" Said Dr. Fauci
www.today.com/health/fauci-says-us-won-t-get-back-normal-until-late-t191550
But at the rate the flu vaccine works that might not be for a very very very long time, even way beyond that date of 2021)
so no church for at least another year and like I said if he ( Dr. Fauci) is saying: until most of the population is 'protected'
and the fact that the flu etc. can mutate so its like we might have to start over and over and no church.... until?
indefinitely?
This is a case of the flu ( which by the way, we never closed down everything , due to fear of dying from the flu)...
The Covid verses People's constitutional right and eternal life.
Essentially unbeliever's due to they fear of death want churches closed....
Their fear of death, trumps constitutional right to worship God.
[smear:#ae1528]14 Since therefore the children share in flesh and blood, he himself likewise partook of the same things, that through death he might destroy the one who has the power of death, that is, the devil,
15 and deliver all those who through fear of death were subject to lifelong slavery. Hebrews 2:14,15[/smear:#2155b4:0]
And yet it is only in church, that their fear of death, can be tamed, and eventually banished for ever.
Once again, what spiritual entity would want churches shut down.... especially those churches, that teach the absolute Truth and the Gospel ( Good News)?
It would be:
The prince of darkness, the father of lies, the hater of mankind, the author of deception a murderer.....
Satan, the devil.
The devil does not want people to hear verses like these:
Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, Psalms 23:4
And this
1[smear:#63e619]6 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. John 3:16[/smear:#e619ab:0]
Done for today
Well said Barbara! I posted some interesting articles that go along with this back on March 31st. Rather then reposting them here, I'll just post a link to the thread I started back then: The Corona Virus...facts not panic
I've been asking myself since this whole covid thing started, what it's really all about... why is the government doing this? I recall that at first Trump played covid down, which I thought was a smart move because you don't want people to panic. The Dem's are pointing at that now as though what he did was bad, which made me recall it. Now it makes me wonder if perhaps Trump wasn't convinced that this covid thing was real and didn't want to go along with it, even though he was being pushed to do so by everyone else.
But just for giggles let's look at possibilities of why the government would say covid was a pandemic and that we're all going to get real sick and many are going to die etc. I mean seriously...it sure doesn't look like a pandemic or epidemic to me. I've seen pictures of the spanish flu pandemic here in the US. They show classrooms with only two students in the whole class there, because all the others were sick. And that wasn't the exception, it was the norm! Covid most certainly isn't like that! Yet the country didn't shut down for that disease. So why now???
Even if we accept the idea that covid is very dangerous, it still doesn't make sense; because if it is, then why in the world are they opening the schools? Do they want to kill off all the children? I seriously doubt they would have allowed the kids to go to school back during the spanish flu if they'd understood how the disease was passed. It's ridiculous. The few times Bruce has turned the news on, I've seen teachers being interviewed saying they were making out their wills, and other teachers refusing to teach out of fear of covid, and yet, knowing this they're sending the kids in??? How insane is that??? It doesn't make any sense at all. Yet the kids have been in school for a week now here and no one has gotten sick yet. (Unlike during the Spanish flu)
Back during other pandemics, everyone knew lots of people who's been sick even if they themselves hadn't been. There were more sick people then well people. Yet here, where I live, there's been very few people who have been sick with covid. I have heard of two people, but don't personally know either one of them and only one of them lives in my state!
New Hampshire Population estimates, July 1, 2019: 1,359,711 Number of people who have supposedly gotten covid: 7,947; that means that there are 1,351,764 that have never gotten covid in New Hampshire. Also, out of the 7,947 people who did get it, 7,201 of them recovered, which is 91%. Only 438 people have died from the disease. (If they really did, which only the Lord knows for sure.) In my town alone, there have supposedly been a total of 19 people who tested positive for covid. The population of my town is 5,393. So 5,374 people did not get covid! Does that sound like a pandemic or even an epidemic to you? It sure doesn't to me!
I think it may well be to cause the economy to crash and to cause the dollar to lose all it's worth, so that they can use this to ease into the one world government and one world currency, etc. What do you think?
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Post by Cindy on Sept 24, 2020 10:40:38 GMT -5
Cindy, comment on your last sentence. From what I have heard pandemic or plandemic, I mean the pandemic, moving to digital, though for the people's comfort they will still use the word dollar. Heading to a cashless, digital economy with automated industry and robotic services. Soon there will probably have to be a universial basic income. That is an unanswered question still as to what will the dollar be worth when this happens.
That's certainly possible Marlene. I suspect that if/when that happens, that the dollar won't be worth anything at all. We're already close to that anyway. I totally agree Cindy....this is not a pandemic in the sense we have hundreds or thousands of people dropping in the streets dying....it has not shown itself to be even remotely like that!
Also, if it were as bad as stated, then all the protesters should be getting very very sick, and I have not heard that?
And as the CDC said, itself only 6% of deaths are ONLY from Covid, all the rest, had at least 2 or 3 other very serious diseases
( and who know if perhaps they actually died from those......I would think at least for some were labeled a covid death, but was actually heart, lung, cancer etc.
But, I think perhaps we can see several reasons to put the fear of death into our population ( and the world even)
I think even Anna's thought could fit it, Because, I am inclined to think, it is related to a plan but ultimately it is the devil's getting ready for the tribulation and somewhere the anti-Christ will claim to sooth all the fears.
A universal income to buy whatever you need, just take a mark, and the ONLY other thing one will have to do, is pledge allegiance to the new 'god'.... but hey.... smooth sailing from then on
or.....
NOT!
There can be no salvation for those who take the mark of the beast
In a way, this is a trial run, concerning our fears of death, or not having enough, etc.
Amen, well said!
Today will be sort of random again, because my internet was down for almost 4 days, and was not supposed to get fixed until this Sat. so I did not really prepare
But one thought is, the world today may continue to be dominated with confusion, lies, self-centeredness, violence etc. etc. It occurred to me that along with all that, we might expect heightened demonic activity. I have seen videos where rioters are now screaming at people demanding to know if they are Christians.
And so I think we need to keep this verse in mind:
[smear:#07e5f7] 4 Little children, you are from God and have overcome them, for he who is in you is greater than he who is in the world. 1 John 4:4[/smear:#bf19e6:0]
Jesus is greater than the demons but the demons have a great power and advantage over the unsaved. I think in Jesus time on earth there was a great increase in demonic activity ( as there had been at different times in the Bible) However, it seems to me, an increase as we move ever closer to the end times it could be possible.
Witchcraft seems to be on the rise today and I think it will increase during the tribulation. But those who think they can be a 'good white' witch and enter heaven need to consider this You cannot serve Satan and Jesus:
[smear:#f6b80b] 24 “No one can serve two masters, for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other.... Matthew 6:24[/smear:#1706f9:0]
Also
[smear:#e66219]8 But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.” Revelation 21:8[/smear:#05a687:0]
I have also been thinking about the animosity ever growing towards police and people sometimes jumping to conclusions , without knowing the full story and painting the police all with the same brush stroke, as abusive racists etc.
But I also think there is another underlying reason the police are hated they are seen as the 'enemy' because of often wrong, and even, perverted ideas of 'FREEDOM'.
Thus, for many, the police are NOT seen this way :
[smear:#cf2fa5]4 for he is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God's wrath on the wrongdoer. Romans 13:4[/smear:#1975e6:0]
[smear:#e69019]With regard to the works of man, by the word of your lips I have avoided the ways of the violent. Psalm 17:4 [/smear:#19bfe6:0]
And the 'cancel culture' of today, also hates the authoritative Word of God. Again because they want to do whatever they want no one likes to be told NO you are wrong or that is a sin.
Still, that does not change absolute Truth and what God says.
I see signs I think, leading once again to bibles being banned ( as 'hate speech') burned, etc.
So those of us who are believers ought to consider carefully,
What we are wasting our time on? Is our time and energy being on foolishness... while we are rapidly sliding in the end times?
What if Jesus delays a bit longer before the rapture, and Bibles are banned...
Will we be so sad we have not immersed ourselves in God's Word and memorized a LOT of scripture to have God's peace?
[smear:#08d4ef] The words of the Lord are pure words, like silver refined in a furnace on the ground, purified seven times. Psalm 12:6[/smear:#f8013a:0]
I have stored up your word in my heart, that I might not sin against you. Psalm 119:11
Then shall I have an answer for him who taunts me, for I trust in your word. Psalm 119:42
Done for Today
Good one! Do you recall MacArthur's sermon about "how God restrains evil'? He shows us that God gives everyone a conscience to restrain evil, and after that, He also ordained the family, civil authority, and the Church to restrain evil. And what exactly has Satan targeted? First, The conscience, since the only way you can get away from your conscience convicting you of sin is to convince it that what you're doing isn't a sin. And that's what Satan has the people, and the media telling us constantly! So at this point, Satan has derailed the conscience of most people, (all but those who are really saved). Second, Satan attacked the family in numerous ways as well; and each way he attacked the family, he also used to attack the conscience. Today "the family" the way God ordained it, is in a shambles and therefore is not doing it's job of restraining evil very well, if at all. (only in those few families that are very godly born again Christians who are both mature in their faith and raising their children to be so as well; only in the very few families like that is evil restrained.) Third God ordained civil authority, which is both government and the police force. Is there any doubt that Satan has also attacked both of these institutions now? And again, he's trying to use these things to also further corrupt people's consciences. the whole race thing was devised to supposedly convict the US government of evil and thereby bring it down. It looks like it's doing a good job of it too. Then the last thing God ordained to restrain evil is the Church. All we have to do is realize how much false teaching is out there and how few churches teach the Truth of what the Bible says, to know that Satan has never let us on attacking the church and in our day has just about succeeded in making it very hard for someone to find a church that teaches the Truth.
The conscience is under assault. The family is under assault. Civil authority is under assault. And so is the church! Not only are these things all under assault like Pastor MacArthur said, but they are just about ready to be pronounced dead. And this is what had to happen for this age to come to an end. It will come to an end after the rapture when the AntiChrist signs the treaty with Israel. I don't think it's very far away now.
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,468
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Post by fearnot on Sept 24, 2020 11:13:36 GMT -5
I do remember that sermon!!! Excellent! Yes, all those institutions are under attack and I am thinking it's because mankind are depraved and desperate sinners
and Satan has his own plan his time is soon coming
so I think the devil has been supporting the undergirding and foundations God gave us, for a long time And he has been wildly successful..... for now
but NOT forever Satan will soon get his 7 years.
I even think this virus works nicely for the devil's plans shutting down churches
Just imagine, if I had said in 2019 that I 'thought' in 2020 almost all churches in our country would be closed down due to a flu like virus
People would have thought I was a nut case
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Post by Cindy on Sept 24, 2020 11:35:35 GMT -5
Barbara mentioned that there are still quite a few protests and riots going on in various states due mostly to BLM, but I suspect that there are others as well. She mentioned that one state has had to declare a State of Emergency. Remember that Emergencies have been declared in other states already and Martial law declared. Trump had to send in the National Guard to bring law and order back to some state. I couldn't believe it when I heard that. But then I couldn't believe it when I heard some mayors saying that the protesters weren't doing anything wrong when they were destroying public property! Talk about calling evil good!
Sadly, I suspect that we could see more of this. This would be one way that the country could be taken over by the antichrist eventually. But even before that, it will certainly cause people to be desperate for "peace" and willing to do about anything to bring peace back into their lives. If you recall, that's what God tells us it will be like: “Now, brothers, about times and dates we do not need to write to you, for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. While people are saying, “Peace and safety,” destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape.” (1 Thessalonians 5:1–3) I think we're all aware of what this is saying, but what I'd like to do is show you the cross references, as they paint a very interesting picture of life....life as it will be and is swiftly becoming.
““ ‘Because they lead my people astray, saying, “Peace,” when there is no peace, and because, when a flimsy wall is built, they cover it with whitewash,” (Ezekiel 13:10)
“So they brought in the gold goblets that had been taken from the temple of God in Jerusalem, and the king and his nobles, his wives and his concubines drank from them. As they drank the wine, they praised the gods of gold and silver, of bronze, iron, wood and stone. Suddenly the fingers of a human hand appeared and wrote on the plaster of the wall, near the lampstand in the royal palace. The king watched the hand as it wrote. His face turned pale and he was so frightened that his knees knocked together and his legs gave way.” (Daniel 5:3–6)
“He will cause deceit to prosper, and he will consider himself superior. When they feel secure, he will destroy many and take his stand against the Prince of princes. Yet he will be destroyed, but not by human power.” (Daniel 8:25)
“When such a person hears the words of this oath, he invokes a blessing on himself and therefore thinks, “I will be safe, even though I persist in going my own way.” This will bring disaster on the watered land as well as the dry.” (Deuteronomy 29:19)
““Just as it was in the days of Noah, so also will it be in the days of the Son of Man. People were eating, drinking, marrying and being given in marriage up to the day Noah entered the ark. Then the flood came and destroyed them all. “It was the same in the days of Lot. People were eating and drinking, buying and selling, planting and building. But the day Lot left Sodom, fire and sulfur rained down from heaven and destroyed them all. “It will be just like this on the day the Son of Man is revealed.” (Luke 17:26–30)
Sounds a lot like today, doesn't it? We have false teachers telling the Church that we're going to make the world a much better place and bring peace to the world. They're planning on doing that all by themselves to make the world perfect so Jesus will return.
Then we have many people drinking and doing drugs, both legal and illegal ones; but either way, messing up their minds so that they aren't really in control. They're partying and having a grand old time, with no thought of tomorrow. But tomorrow is going to come, and they'll find they've been storing up wrath on themselves.
"He will cause deceit to prosper" Wow! It sure seems like that's already true! But at this time there is still the remnant of true believers who know the Truth and tell the Truth to others. He (Satan) won't be able to completely make his lies prosper until we're gone.
And then we see more of our false teachers who have told people that they can continue to live the way they always have and God will bless them. Not!
And finally we see that the people are continuing to do their every day things just as they always have. And that's continued to happen even through this covid thing. People are still finding ways for life to go on. People are getting married (although more are just living together or having a fling) babies are being born, and babies are being killed; (that's why they couldn't shut down planned parenthood when everything else was shut down.) they're eating, drinking, doing drugs, etc. And then suddenly, it will happen and the Church will be taken up to meet Jesus in the air to be with him forever!
But keep in mind one other thing. We are not looking for signs that say the rapture will happen soon. We can't do that because there are no signs like that because the rapture has always been something that could happen any minute. It could happen before I finish posting this message. The signs aren't even for the end times, because we've been living in the end times since Jesus ascended to heaven. All of the "signs" are for the Tribulation. I use these signs however, because obviously the closer things are lining up for the tribulation, the closer then ever the rapture is. And since the rapture has always been able to happen at any moment, I guess that means now that it could happen any second!
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Post by 1catmom on Sept 24, 2020 14:45:51 GMT -5
Thank you, Cindy, for putting this here so we can talk about it. My day to day routine hasn't been affected to much by Covid-19. I know people who have gotten it and recovered, some with very serious pre-existing conditions. I think it is serious, as in flu-like serious, but nowhere near the hype and hysteria the media would have us believe.
The lockdowns - they have been a trial run for something WAY more sinister. Censorship has reached epic proportions. The truth is out there but getting harder and harder to find. The riots are awful....evil... The whole BLM movement is evil at its core. Critical Race Theory has infiltrated almost all evangelical denominations. I believe we are on the verge of civil war.
My take? God is using all of these things to prepare His Bride. To separate the wheat from the chaff.
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Post by Cindy on Sept 28, 2020 9:36:03 GMT -5
Thank you, Cindy, for putting this here so we can talk about it. My day to day routine hasn't been affected to much by Covid-19. I know people who have gotten it and recovered, some with very serious pre-existing conditions. I think it is serious, as in flu-like serious, but nowhere near the hype and hysteria the media would have us believe. The lockdowns - they have been a trial run for something WAY more sinister. Censorship has reached epic proportions. The truth is out there but getting harder and harder to find. The riots are awful....evil... The whole BLM movement is evil at its core. Critical Race Theory has infiltrated almost all evangelical denominations. I believe we are on the verge of civil war. My take? God is using all of these things to prepare His Bride. To separate the wheat from the chaff. I totally agree! We are losing our rights so fast and many don't seem to be aware of it even. Now there are precedents so that it will be very easy for someone to take away our rights when they decide the time is right; especially our right to free speech. Actually, that's already gone, it's just that most people don't know it yet.
Because we know the Lord and His Word, we know what that something sinister is that this has been both a trial run and a way to set up things so that it will work for them when the time comes. It's all about getting the people ready to accept yet another lie, and it looks to me like they're not only ready, but are eager to accept it.
Yes, I've been saying for awhile now that the Lord was using these things to separate the wheat from the chaff. I find facebook interesting in that it makes it easy to see what's the most important thing in people's lives. For many, it's themselves; for many others it's Trump, and so on. Not very many truly put the Lord first though, but that's what Jesus told us too. He said over and over again that only a minority would be saved.
I find myself quite literally looking up quite often now. I know my Lord is coming soon and I can't wait to see Him!
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,468
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Post by fearnot on Sept 28, 2020 9:43:30 GMT -5
I did not go directly to CDC site but this is what Zerohedge is saying is the CDC latest numbers:
"Here is what the CDC calls its “current best estimate” of chances of dying from the virus if you get infected:
1 out of 34,000 for ages 0 to 19;
1 out of 5,000 for ages 20 to 49;
1 out of 200 for ages 50 to 69; and
1 out of 20 for ages 70 and up.
Here’s another way to look at the same numbers. If you get infected, your chances of surviving are as follows:
Age Group Probability of Survival
0-19: 99.997% 20-49: 99.98% 50-69: 99.5% 70+: 94.6%
www.zerohedge.com/markets/new-cdc-estimates-fatality-rate-covid-19-drops-again-and-may-surprise-you
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,468
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Post by fearnot on Sept 28, 2020 10:45:12 GMT -5
I totally agree with both you and 1catmom
I agree there is a virus that is bad maybe....a bit worse than the flu even......
But we never destroyed our economy over the flu ( which kills a lot of people each year)
But more than that When people are sooooo afraid of dying, they need God's word for the Truth and comfort
and they cannot go to church (in many places) Which is I often think is one of the main sinister Censorship that is reaching epic proportions!!!
It could be a trial run for the anti-Christ/devil.
I wonder if the devil was/is surprised at how well, it's working?
When people turn their backs on God their fear, is through the roof.
Even with other greater pandemics in the past our country did not shut the church doors
I am thinking, this only shows how far our country has turned away from God!
Both the shutting of churches ( or making it very very hard to meet all the governments requirements) and fear running rampant.
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,468
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Post by fearnot on Sept 28, 2020 11:30:27 GMT -5
Although this is a relatively 'small' inconvenience
I could see this grow, maybe in the future
What if, the shutting of church doors were to continue, (in the future if the 'pandemic' mutates, or a 'new' one soon comes along etc.)
Oh well... we can always have online church....right?
Well, it, 'might be' or 'may be'
you tube is moving around time of being able to watch church online etc. ( just a 'little')
( I am not sure about the reliability of this site??? Irregardless , it did make me wonder however about the possibility of this in the future and on a much larger scale)
So the article is stating that
For churches that have under 100 viewers you tube is changing the times etc church can be seen etc etc.
Could it be 'possible' that if this went of for a year or more
That eventually, our online church would disappear altogether?
I don't 'think' it would go that far..... but is there an off hand chance?
"YouTube restricts churches over online service times"
www.bibliatodo.com/En/christian-news/youtube-restricts-churches-over-online-service-times/
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Post by Cindy on Sept 29, 2020 10:01:28 GMT -5
I did not go directly to CDC site but this is what Zerohedge is saying is the CDC latest numbers:
"Here is what the CDC calls its “current best estimate” of chances of dying from the virus if you get infected:
1 out of 34,000 for ages 0 to 19;
1 out of 5,000 for ages 20 to 49;
1 out of 200 for ages 50 to 69; and
1 out of 20 for ages 70 and up.
Here’s another way to look at the same numbers. If you get infected, your chances of surviving are as follows:
Age Group Probability of Survival
0-19: 99.997% 20-49: 99.98% 50-69: 99.5% 70+: 94.6%
www.zerohedge.com/markets/new-cdc-estimates-fatality-rate-covid-19-drops-again-and-may-surprise-you
Thanks for posting those Barbara. I think it's pretty clear now that there really isn't a horrible disease that's going to kill us now. I sincerely doubt the necessity of wearing face masks either at this point. I think that order is made to just get us used to obeying the government, no matter what they say. That's probably part of what not going to church is/was about as well. Plus it's well known that when you mess up a persons regular schedule, their normal way of life, then it's much easier to force changes to their way of life on them.
I totally agree with both you and 1catmom
I agree there is a virus that is bad maybe....a bit worse than the flu even......
But we never destroyed our economy over the flu ( which kills a lot of people each year)
But more than that When people are sooooo afraid of dying, they need God's word for the Truth and comfort
and they cannot go to church (in many places) Which is I often think is one of the main sinister Censorship that is reaching epic proportions!!!
It could be a trial run for the anti-Christ/devil.
I wonder if the devil was/is surprised at how well, it's working?
When people turn their backs on God their fear, is through the roof.
Even with other greater pandemics in the past our country did not shut the church doors
I am thinking, this only shows how far our country has turned away from God!
Both the shutting of churches ( or making it very very hard to meet all the governments requirements) and fear running rampant. I think another part of the reason for keeping us away from church is to prevent us from sharing the truth about what's going on with each other and with our friends and neighbors and others we might invite to attend church with us. If the church is acting as true family, with the people truly loving each other and spending time with each other during the week as well as on Sundays, then preventing that would stop the spread of the Truth, or at least slow it down. While they could share emails, and meet on line, it's not the same as being with each other. The one thing that has kept this from working though is that each true Christian has the Holy Spirit within them and therefore will be led to the truth of what's really happening regardless of whether or not they can meet with fellow Christians. And those people who aren't yet saved but who have been elected to salvation, they too will be led to the Truth, because God knows who belongs to Him and He will make a way for them to be informed as well.
Although this is a relatively 'small' inconvenience
I could see this grow, maybe in the future
What if, the shutting of church doors were to continue, (in the future if the 'pandemic' mutates, or a 'new' one soon comes along etc.)
Oh well... we can always have online church....right?
Well, it, 'might be' or 'may be'
you tube is moving around time of being able to watch church online etc. ( just a 'little')
( I am not sure about the reliability of this site??? Irregardless , it did make me wonder however about the possibility of this in the future and on a much larger scale)
So the article is stating that
For churches that have under 100 viewers you tube is changing the times etc church can be seen etc etc.
Could it be 'possible' that if this went of for a year or more
That eventually, our online church would disappear altogether?
I don't 'think' it would go that far..... but is there an off hand chance?
"YouTube restricts churches over online service times"
www.bibliatodo.com/En/christian-news/youtube-restricts-churches-over-online-service-times/ Anything is possible. People hate the truth and they will (and do) hate anyone who lives God's Truth. I suspect that we will be persecuted more and more as time goes on. I have another true story to share with you about our old board and how we were persecuted that may surprise you.
When I first started being an admin for a Christian board, (before opening one of my own, the owner had set the board up with a secular host. I didn't see a problem with that as all hosts pretty much do the same job. So I didn't think anything of it. But when the board became popular very quickly, we started having constant problems with the site going down. We soon found out that it was the host doing it! They hated Christians and wanted to get rid of us! It seemed ridiculous to me at the time, because I thought all they had to do was tell us they didn't want to host our site and we would have gone elsewhere. But that would have been the kind thing to do and would have prevented them from acting like a bully toward us. So we switced to a Christian host and all was well after that.
Then when I started Fresh Hope, remembering what had happened, I went to a Christian host for our site. Everything was fine at first, but then we started having problems. This happened all through the second year and then the host began hassling me constantly for more money because we were going beyond our allotted bandwidth due to our huge and constant growth. I kept paying the extra but the man seemed to get more and more antagonistic about it. Then we started having problems of the site going down at various times for no apparent reason. That made me remember what the secular host had done, so I asked our computer expert (Jason) to look into what was happening and sure enough, it was the host! I couldn't believe it because they were supposedly Christians! I went to look at reviews of our host and discovered the only people that had problems with him hosting were those who's sites had done better then his site, and Fresh Hope was definitely in that category! So this was a Christian who either wasn't really saved, or who had a huge problem with pride. Either way, I got out of my contract with him and got on with an excellent Christian host. They proved that over and over because Fresh Hope kept growing and we kept going over our allotted bandwidth. Instead of charging us more money, they congratulated me and told me not to worry about it, because it meant more people were seeing the truth! After that I relaxed, because I knew we'd finally found a real Christian host for our site!
I suspect that we'll see more of this on line now too. Oh and another thing we will most likely see a lot of is seeing Christian sites being hacked. They were constantly trying to do that on Fresh Hope too. Thanks to our host and Jason, most failed!
Finally, we'll also see more persecution in real life. People not being hired because they're Christians, or losing their jobs because of it, or being beat up because of their faith, etc. Christian children should be told to expect this if they are really Christians. Otherwise they won't be prepared and won't know how to deal with it.
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,468
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Post by fearnot on Sept 29, 2020 10:38:31 GMT -5
When I read this sentence you wrote:
"If the church is acting as true family, with the people truly loving each other and spending time with each other during the week as well as on Sundays,
then preventing that would stop the spread of the Truth, or at least slow it down."
It kind of reminded me of how the 'experts' said they would slow the virus!
It's not funny but the similarity, made me chuckle
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,468
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Post by fearnot on Sept 29, 2020 21:53:44 GMT -5
I think our country ( the USA) today, is in fact, being judged by God.
As a nation, we had THE TRUTH, the gospel. However, we slowly but relentlessly, kicked God out of the market place, schools, homes etc..
We rejected it, abandoned it we did not want any of it's restraints Instead, we exulted:
sin as FREEDOM.
And now sin runs rampant in our society we are reaping the consequences.
[smear:#f8542b] As I have seen, those who plow iniquity and sow trouble reap the same. Job 4:8[/smear:#1b957b:0]
We are also experiencing this:
[smear:#19e663]"............And again, “The Lord will judge his people. ” 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God." Hebrews 10:30,31[/smear:#e619cc:0]
Romans 1 is a good example of how a society slides down the slippery slope of going to Hell at warp speed.
When God's truth is rejected one can see the signs in the culture things like: Sexual immorality porn, pedophilia passions lusts violence lies etc etc. etc.
In Romans 1 we hear God say 3 times God gave them up
First:
Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, Romans 1:24
That was our 60's and 70's sexual revolution
Then second: [smear:#f7431c] 26 For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; 27 and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error. Romans 1:26,27[/smear:#b319e6:0]
This was the homosexual revolution
But now, we are in the third stage of God giving our culture up:
[smear:#c93ef5] 28 And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to 'a debased mind' to do what ought not to be done.
29 They were filled with all manner of unrighteousness, evil, covetousness, malice.
They are full of
envy, murder, strife, deceit, maliciousness. They are gossips,
30 slanderers, haters of God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents,
31 foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless.
32 Though they know God's righteous decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them. Romans 1:28-32[/smear:#f64308:0]
In this stage, many unsaved have become insane or as scripture says they have a debased mind
God is allowing them to do whatever pleases their sinful nature without constraint. However, as sinners, if they do not turn to God they will continue to the point of what is insanity.
[smear:#07f8a1]The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately sick; who can understand it? Jeremiah 17:9[/smear:#e61998:0]
The problem is with this sickness is not only do they not want to hear to cure, Sadly, many churches are buying into things like: Critical Race theory
Indeed people have been discriminated against persecuted, harmed in many ways, abused, etc.
The problem is, when one wallows in this pain forever.... and because of the terribleness of the world's injustice....
Therefore everyone becomes a victim and none need to be held responsible for their sins.
The other more 'critical' issue is: the Truth of the gospel does not get told, to those people, who have already gone thru so much
The excuse for not giving them the gospel truth is: to not give them even more pain...
but they need that truth even more.... because their eternal destiny is at stake.
And in a way, this 'victim-hood' culture can become a contest:
Who suffered more?
Blacks or Indians ( US Indians) Chinese, or Mexicans Jews, or Arabs Rich or poor etc. etc.
And thus, nobody is held to bring responsible for their own unrighteous deeds because they are 'victims'
nor do any of them have to confess they are a sinner. But God says:
23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, Romans 3:23
So if we constantly and forever pet our wounds...
though it may feel sweet until.... we die... then, we discover a fatal deception that has/had eternal consequences
Indeed some people have suffered greatly in this world and I am not saying the pain was not real and that it does have lingering consequences
Be that as it may:
We have to confess our own sins knowing we are sinners just as were, our ,or their, 'oppressors'
Plus, we have to forgive and even love our enemies.... or this next verse , will only be the beginning of what eternal sorrows will be:
[smear:#17b384]Bread gained by deceit is sweet to a man, but afterward his mouth will be full of gravel. Proverbs 20:17[/smear:#f636b7:0]
We have to come to this truth also:
[smear:#fae70a]14 For if you forgive others their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you, 15 but if you do not forgive others their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses. Matthew 6:14,15[/smear:#9505f1:0]
And this:
[smear:#15577f]43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, Matthew 5:43,44[/smear:#f7530a:0]
Both a poor child whose single mom has to work 3 jobs in order for the child to have a PJ sandwich now and then, and a very very wealthy child whose parents work and travel the world day and night, and hire a revolving door of nannies....
Both children, are like abandon children, that are tossed from foster care to foster care..... with little or no love at all.
It is foolish to assume money can buy any kind of love or affection, It might buy stronger and more evil addictions but not love.
As far as saying there is 'systemic racism ' for only Caucasians....
God says this, no matter what 'race' you might be:
[smear:#e6191d] 20 The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son. Ezekiel 18:20[/smear:#8234c7:0]
All of these 'theories' are based on humans whose minds which are debased and going insane
Done for Today
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,468
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Post by fearnot on Sept 29, 2020 21:58:49 GMT -5
When an individual or a nation(s) or country(s) refuses to confess and ignores their own sinfulness evil will grow more and more.
and their minds will slowly ( or rapidly) deteriorate into insanity.
Following up on the third stage of God giving a people up:
[smear:#0af715] And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done. Romans 1:28[/smear:#3501fa:0]
This news item reminded me of the past when rulers said and did crazy things: like saying 'let the people (who had no bread to eat and were starving) let them eat cake or fiddled while their city was burning.
In The Midst Of A Pandemic, Blanketed In Wildfire Smoke, The City Of Berkeley Is Focused On Banning Candy Bars
www.zerohedge.com/political/midst-pandemic-blanketed-wildfire-smoke-city-berkeley-focused-banning-candy-bars
The rulers in Berkeley California will protect the 'foolish silly' people from buying a candy bar but yet....
California Legislature Softens Sex Offender Registry Requirements For Sodomy With Minors
They loosen the laws for gay pedophiles and thus in my opinion,
subject children to sexual predators ( Because I do not believe a 14 year old can really consent willing to a 24 year old sexual predator).
"The California legislature passed a law late Monday ( this quote is from an article date Sept 1, 2020) relaxing sex offender registry requirements for sodomy and other acts with minors in efforts to end “discrimination against LGBTQ young people on the sex offender registry,” according to the bill’s sponsor."
dailycaller.com/2020/09/01/california-legislature-sex-offender-registry/
I am reminded of this verse:
[smear:#4fe619]2 But Pharaoh said, “Who is the Lord, that I should obey his voice and let Israel go? I do not know the Lord, and moreover, I will not let Israel go.” Exodus 5:2[/smear:#e61944:0]
The insanity is when people are determined to reinvent the world to be the way they and their sins demand against God that is a reprobate and insane mind.
I think most would agree our culture has changed and is changing rapidly
We can most likely also agree the Bible ( God's Word) does not change
[smear:#19ade6]The grass withers, the flower fades, but the word of our God will stand forever. Isaiah 40:8[/smear:#f72be5:0]
and also
[smear:#e619b9]89 Forever, O Lord, your word is firmly fixed in the heavens. Psalm 119:89[/smear:#19e638:0]
God not only will give people up to their sins He will raises up rulers and remove them and He can destroy a sinful nation.
[smear:#268c41]He changes times and seasons; he removes kings and sets up kings; he gives wisdom to the wise and knowledge to those who have understanding; Daniel 2:21[/smear:#e619d8:0]
At some point when a nation is so immersed in its sin, God may destroy it like Sodom
[smear:#32f26f]29 but on the day when Lot went out from Sodom, fire and sulfur rained from heaven and destroyed them all Luke 17:28-30[/smear:#e61938:0]
I think perhaps a principle might be as sin accelerates so might God's judgment God is patient, not wanting any to go to Hell but there comes a time when He gives people up and then.....
[smear:#a726f0]30 For we know him who said, “Vengeance is mine; I will repay.” And again, “The Lord will judge his people.” 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. Hebrews 10:30,31[/smear:#e61951:0]
Done for Today
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Post by Cindy on Sept 30, 2020 8:51:04 GMT -5
Thanks for sharing that Barbara! It's all quite true!
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lee
Junior Member
Posts: 50
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Post by lee on Sept 30, 2020 18:05:53 GMT -5
I was watching the news coming out of China before it got here to the US and it was a bit scary seeing the reports and lengths China was going to to stop this but by now its obvious that while it is a concern its not the horrible thing they've been saying it is. What I'd like to see is the breakdown of the mortality rates by ages and co-morbidity of the regular seasonal flu for a comparison because I have a feeling its very similar. But then again I'm not sure we can trust any statistics.
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,468
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Post by fearnot on Oct 1, 2020 9:54:52 GMT -5
Lee I agree with you, I think the flu and Covid are very close Maybe Covid is a small amount worse..... but even that, I am not 100% convicted of
Part of the problem is at least for awhile, it seemed like if a person died and had Covid, the death cert said, that is what they died of
However, like you said they may have had 2, 3, 4 other comorbidities so it's not clear, if perhaps that ( the comobiditiy) was the true cause of their death.
If someone was in the last few weeks of cancer, lung disease, kidney failure etc etc. Perhaps that is what really they died of? So its almost impossible to know for sure.
What does seem to be sure, is it has made drastic changes in the world especially in some states, not allowing church attendance.
Another thing is, the fear factor it has caused, and for some reason, it reminds me of the soon coming time when many will believe a lie.
9 The coming of the lawless one is by the activity of Satan with all power and false signs and wonders, 10 and with all wicked deception for those who are perishing, because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. 11 Therefore God sends them a strong delusion, so that they may believe what is false, 2 Thessalonians 2:9-11
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Post by Cindy on Oct 1, 2020 11:41:51 GMT -5
I was watching the news coming out of China before it got here to the US and it was a bit scary seeing the reports and lengths China was going to to stop this but by now its obvious that while it is a concern its not the horrible thing they've been saying it is. What I'd like to see is the breakdown of the mortality rates by ages and co-morbidity of the regular seasonal flu for a comparison because I have a feeling its very similar. But then again I'm not sure we can trust any statistics. As far as that comparison goes, I found one like that. Well, I found one about the flu and then a different one on covid and was able to compare the two. That was back toward the end of March though and I don't remember where I got them from. All I remember is that I did a search on google for them. It was very similar!
A fiction book I'm reading made an interesting observation. (it was written well before covid though). It stated that there's been a big change in the way people view things. Our founding fathers and most of us up until recent generations, turned to the Church whenever there was a disaster or problem too big for one person to solve. In smaller problems that people couldn't solve on their own, they turned to their neighbors for help. (and those neighbors were generally also members of the Church). This was true for all kinds of problems and disasters - whether the person or persons needed financial help, counseling, or if they needed a job, or medical care, housing, or whatever. In the past if there had been a pandemic, disaster, terrorist attack, or disaster, the church would have been the one the state governors would have called on to counsel those who needed it, and to give general counsel to large groups. They would have called the Church to help get masks to those who needed them, and to visit the sick. Little by little though, the world (Satan) took everything away from the Church. The Church actually worked hand in hand with the government to help the people. They could do that then because the government back then was of the people, by the people and for the people, and the Church was has always been about helping the people too.
So when problems or disasters arose people automatically turned to their neighbors, and to the Church, not the government. Now though it looks like the people have been brainwashed into turning to the government for everything, and I mean that quite literally. I've told about this before, when I saw a news reporter interviewing people who were protesting. (this wasn't a violent protest and was a few years ago). Anyway, one of the people who stood out to me was a woman who was probably in her early 20's. She told the reporter that she was protesting because she wanted the government to give her enough money to do the things she wanted to do, and not have to work. In other words, she wanted the government to support her! And that seems to be the mentality of many people these days. They turn to the government even before they try to fix a problem themselves, and most wouldn't even consider going to a neighbor or the Church!
The book suggested that the mind set of turning to the government for everything has been purposely created and sold to us and we ate it up like candy since it appealed to our sin nature.
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Post by Cindy on Oct 8, 2020 11:01:30 GMT -5
I was reading about Jesus healing a man possessed by many demons and the things the man was doing before he was healed, reminded me of people today. I've done research before about the affects of demon possession so I checked that and was even more surprised to discover how much the symptoms are like what people act like today. Let me list some of them for you.
One of the main symptoms of demon possession seems to be indecency. This indecency shows up in a number of ways, such as running around naked, and using foul language; and just in general doing things that even today would be considered indecent. I think of things such as a man who shows his private parts to people in public.
Next would be injury. People possessed by demons often injure themselves, and one of the main ways they do that (even in the Bible) is by cutting themselves. That one sure made me do a double take, what with all the kids who cut themselves today! The main purpose in cutting themselves was to mutilate their bodies. Today that's exactly what people are doing who attempt to have a sex change.
Another symptom is isolation. The demons seem to like isolating the person they're possessing, keeping the person away from other people as much as possible. We see a lot of this today as well, especially in people who are experiencing depression, which is yet another symptom of possession. By keeping the person away from others, they're keeping them away from help, from love, and from friendship.
As I just said, another symptom is depression. Another thing we're seeing a lot of today.
Another symptom is convulsions or seizures. Some demons caused the person they possessed to have convulsions or seizures, while others only caused that to happen when they came out of the person.
Yet another symptom is shouting, and screaming. This symptom can happen in a number of ways. It can sound something like a child having a temper tantrum, only worse; or it can sound like someone shouting hateful things at another person or even at no one at all.
Extraordinary strength is another symptom. That strength is used for evil or at least to prevent good, or to prevent someone from helping them or restraining them.
Causing the person to be blind and/or mute is also something the demons like to do.
In other words, the demons like to do all that they can to humiliate the person they possess, hurt them, isolate them, and eventually they like to kill them or use them to harm or kill others.
When I look at lists like this of the things the demons did during the time Jesus was here before, it looks a lot like what I see going on around me today.
Next I'd like to add what we know about Satan and what his agenda is. Jesus tells us “The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full.” (John 10:10) We know that Jesus was speaking about Satan when He called him a "thief". He also tells us this about Satan: “You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.” (John 8:44) So from these two scriptures alone we know that Satan's main schemes involve stealing, killing, murdering, destroying, and lying. Usually when we read about killing we think of a person being killed and that's certainly true here. But there's another meaning as well. Satan not only loves to literally kill people, he also loves to kill our hopes and dreams. He loves to tell us everything we believe a lie. That's obvious though and fairly easy to fight. There's another attribute of Satan we need to be aware of though. We're told this about him and his demons when Paul is talking about false teachers: “And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. It is not surprising, then, if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve.” (2 Corinthians 11:14–15) This really goes right along with lying, because he lies about the kind of being he is and so do his demons and his children. If everything Satan and his children did looked evil it would be easy to fight against him. But instead he makes it look good and loving. He mixes his falsehoods in with just enough truth to make many of us swallow it. This is one of the reasons so many false teachers get away with what they're doing. Of course another reason is because people are not studying their Bibles daily like they should. Another thing we are told about Satan and those belonging to him is that they like to divide the Body of Christ. (Jude 17–19)
OK, let's look at this all together now: Satan, demons, and Satan's children (every adult who is not really saved is a child of Satan) is a master liar, masquerades as a good person, and loves to steal, kill and destroy people, things, and ideas (such as dreams and hopes) and likes to promote division in the body of Christ and elsewhere. Looking at this we can again see where much of what's going on today is coming from. Another thing I should mention is that things like anger and bitterness come from Satan too and we see a lot of those today as well. Whenever we see these things they're likely being caused by Satan and those who belong to him, especially when we see any of these things in the Body of Christ.
Black Lives Matter is obviously made up of Satan's children doing what they love to do - destroying statutes and defacing buildings, killing, and creating havoc. They've also divided the people - those who are for them and those who see them for what they really are; families have been divided because of them!
Satan has been busy trying to destroy any reverence for God or His Word. He's convinced many of our children and grandchildren that the Bible is just a book or myths and fairy tales. It's a real supernatural miracle if a child goes to college and maintains they're faith in Christ. Most don't. The colleges do all they can to destroy faith in Christ and in the Bible. The public schools are doing their best to do that too, but have been constrained in the past as they didn't want to be found out by the Christian parents. They don't care about that anymore though. So every day a child is in a public school, they're faith is at risk, and if they go to a college or university it will most likely be killed. Sadly we have to include most so called "Christian colleges" too, as they no longer teach the Truth. Satan has been working at this for a long time and now we're seeing the outcome of all he's been doing in the school systems.
When a child's friends include kids that are homosexual, others that are transgenders, some who have parents who are into witchcraft, they are not going to want to tell them that they are sinning. Instead they're going to side with their friends. Peer pressure is very strong and Satan knows that and uses it well. Then you have music teachers who tell children they can't sing silent night at Christmas, but that it's ok to sing a song in Arabic that praises Allah, which they tell the kids is just another name for God. I watched these things happening in the area I live in, which is pretty rural, so if it happens here, it's got to be happening even more so in other places.
I don't have time to share any more but this gives us plenty to reflect on and see just what Satan's been up to for many many years, and what he's doing right now.
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Post by Cindy on Oct 28, 2020 11:08:08 GMT -5
I had another thought about the reason for what's happening. I was specifically thinking about the way Christians are being forced to "register" for Church, and all the stupid rules that have been put in place to prevent us from worshiping the Lord. Are they actually trying to find out who the people are who go to Church regularly? I know what they say their reason is, but this would be a good way to find out who the hard core Christians are.
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Post by Cindy on Nov 2, 2020 12:12:50 GMT -5
I'm posting this separate as I think it may be important. It's important to me, so I'm sure it will be important to some others as well, but probably not to everyone. You all may remember that one of my very best friends growing up is a priest in Rome and worked for the Pope for awhile. (not the current one though). Anyway, I sent him this message yesterday:
Lance, how bad was covid there really? Most folks here and all over the US don't know anyone who has had it. And when you look at the numbers it's not even as bad as the flu. For example, the population of the town I live in is about 5,400 and we have had a total of 29 cases of it in the last 9 months, 8 of which have happened since school started. Most of the people, including us, aren't worried about it and haven't changed how we live except to wear masks if we are forced to in a store. (Most stores don't care). My kids and grandchildren (and their friends) come over to visit as usual, as do neighbors etc. (And we hug and kiss as usual). So that's why I'm asking since we heard it was bad there.
I honestly thought he would tell me that I was nuts and that covid was a very dangerous and deadly disease and we should thank the Lord we hadn't gotten it. But nope, instead he said that while there are more cases now in this second wave but there's little danger of dying. Most recover. He said the governments are using it to control people, however, many are rebelling against the lock downs. Then he told me that he's been working in the hospital and going out as usual (which for him means daily) and he's fine! Then he said, "The sad thing is this virus has become a political point to push against individual freedoms." He said it's sad that you can riot, loot and burn down businesses, but you can't go to church.
I agreed that the governments are trying to control, but that's backfiring. So I've been trying to figure out what the other reason(s) is. Then I told him that the only reason I could think of is to ruin economies in order to move people closer to a one world currency and maybe even one world government. Again I thought he's laugh but he didn't. Instead he said I'd hit the nail right on the head and said it's all about control with very few ruling.
I have to admit, I was pretty shocked. Lance has always been someone I could trust to tell me the truth about anything, including myself. I was concerned that I was wandering into the conspiracy theory world and don't want to do that. I knew Lance is as down to earth as anyone can get so I knew he would set me straight if I was. I figured too that since he is living in one of the worst hit areas, he would be able to tell me what was really going on. He has homes several different cities in Italy, and in a couple of other countries as well, so he gets around. I'm going to post this in the thread, "What's the Pandemic Really all About" now too.
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,468
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Post by fearnot on Dec 3, 2020 12:11:33 GMT -5
I've been seeing how the virus seems to being used by some leaders and people in power to grab even more control over people's lives.
But I have not really looked deeply at how God may 'use' it.
I think God sometimes allows 'bad' things to happen to gain people's attention.
When things are super, great, easy, etc. It often works out that people are just too busy having 'fun' they don't really feel the need to consider God, read the Bible, pray etc.
And with everything superb, they almost always start sliding into more and more sins.
Which, I am thinking, leads to this verse you chose:
17" For it is time for judgment to begin with the family of God; and if it begins with us, what will the outcome be for those who do not obey the gospel of God?
18 And, “If it is hard for the righteous to be saved, what will become of the ungodly and the sinner?”
19 So then, those who suffer according to God’s will should commit themselves to their faithful Creator and continue to do good.” 1 Peter 4:17–19
I am pretty convinced God may indeed be bringing judgment, on our nation and the World as a wake-up call, or worse.
I've been reading Jeremiah lately, and several times, God tells his prophet, not to even pray any intercessory prayers for Israel.
The people had sunk far to low in sin
Well, it looks like we in our country, have done as much sinking in sin, if not more, than ancient Israel.
16 “As for you, do not pray for this people, or lift up a cry or prayer for them, and do not intercede with me, for I will not hear you. Jeremiah 7:16
And here is one more:
14 “Therefore do not pray for this people, or lift up a cry or prayer on their behalf, for I will not listen when they call to me in the time of their trouble. Jeremiah 11:14
Done for today
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Post by Cindy on Dec 4, 2020 9:21:52 GMT -5
Let's look at that scripture again:
“For it is time for judgment to begin with the family of God; and if it begins with us, what will the outcome be for those who do not obey the gospel of God? And, “If it is hard for the righteous to be saved, what will become of the ungodly and the sinner?” So then, those who suffer according to God’s will should commit themselves to their faithful Creator and continue to do good.” (1 Peter 4:17–19)
How can we say that this pandemic is a judgment against the family of God when both believers and unbelievers have been hurt by it? It would help greatly if we read those verses in context. I think it will become clear what Peter was saying then. Let's read 1 Peter 4:12–19 and then come back and discuss it.
While I realize that God did tell Jeremiah not to pray for his people, it wasn't because they'd sunk so low in sins, but because they had knowingly sinned against the Lord and continued in it. Unlike today, in Israel at Jeremiah's time, the people all knew what God required of them, but knowingly refused to obey Him. Not everyone today knows the Lord or what He requires of us. John talks about that here: “If anyone sees his brother commit a sin that does not lead to death, he should pray and God will give him life. I refer to those whose sin does not lead to death. There is a sin that leads to death. I am not saying that he should pray about that. All wrongdoing is sin, and there is sin that does not lead to death.” (1 John 5:16–17) Let me share what some commentaries say about this:
Wiersbe says: John mentions praying specifically for another believer who has sinned in a way that might result in death 1 Cor 11:30. This sin unto death is not some unpardonable sin that a believer unwittingly falls into, but a deliberate sin in defiance of the Word of God; something that other believers can see & recognize as rebellion. Jeremiah was told not to pray for the rebellious Jews in Jeremiah 7:16; & Ezekiel 14:14, 20. When we show true repentance & confession, the Father is quick to forgive & cleanse. True prayer is much more than saying words to God. It involves searching the Word, letting the Spirit search the things of God & yielding to God’s will as we share our requests with Him. There's a price to pay in this kind of praying, but it is worth it. Wiersbe’s expository outlines
MacArthur says: John illustrates praying according to God’s will with the specific example of the sin leading to death. Such a sin could be any premeditated & unconfessed sin that causes the Lord to determine to end a believer’s life. It's not one particular sin like homosexuality or lying, but whatever sin is the final one in the tolerance of God. Failure to repent of & forsake sin may eventually lead to physical death as a judgment of God. No intercessory prayer will be effective for those who have committed such deliberate high-handed sin; God’s discipline with physical death is inevitable in such cases as He seeks to preserve the purity of His church. The contrast to the phrase, sin leading to death with sin not leading to death signifies that the writer distinguishes between sins that may lead to physical death & those that don't. That's not to identify a certain kind of mortal or non-mortal sin, but to say not all sins are so judged by God. The MacArthur study Bible
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,468
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Post by fearnot on Dec 4, 2020 12:29:00 GMT -5
I think sin has grown greatly over the years and that God will judge it and people in the Tribulation..... but also now, and as in the past.
It seems like in the Bible, when God brought judgment on the nation of Israel, both believers and unbelievers suffered being taken away to another land, as slaves etc.
I don't think being a believer keeps us from sorrows, tragedies, persecution, or judgments
But believers can lean on the Lord during the trials:
2 Count it all joy, my brothers, when you meet trials of various kinds,
3 for you know that the testing of your faith produces steadfastness.
Also
33 I have said these things to you, that in me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation. But take heart; I have overcome the world.”
4 And let steadfastness have its full effect, that you may be perfect and complete, lacking in nothing. James 1:2-4
I think sometimes if and when believers and the unsaved face the same trial....
There will be some unbelievers that will note how differently most believers face difficulties Like:
13 But we do not want you to be uninformed, brothers, about those who are asleep, ( my note: it means they died) that you may not grieve as others do who have no hope.
1 Thessalonians 4:13
And also we can comfort some of them
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies and God of all comfort,
4 who comforts us in all our affliction,
so that we may be able to comfort those who are in any affliction, with the comfort with which we ourselves are comforted by God.
2 Corinthians 1:3,4
During the 10 plagues of God on Egypt thru Moses, the Jews were also in the land.
it seems that some of the first plagues may have effected the Jews also. But as more plagues came God protected the Jews from the later ones.
Believers and the unsaved have often been together in all sorts of natural disasters etc.
I wonder if in some way, this virus and chaos, violence, increasing sin etc.
might be similar to the days of Moses?
( for sure we are getting deeply into the days like the the days of Noah)
Now that the End Times are getting more severe there will come a time when God will protect the believers
( as He did with the Jews in Egypt, only the Rapture will be on a much more infinite scale)
from more judgments by taking us in the rapture
But that does not stop the beginnings of sorrows and judgments for now, we are still here.
8 All these are but the beginning of the birth pains. Matthew 24:8
Another factor of God allowing us Christians to suffer the present judgments may be to also discipline us.
7 It is for discipline that you have to endure. God is treating you as sons. For what son is there whom his father does not discipline? Hebrews 12:7
Not only that but our prayer is to become more like Jesus and Jesus suffered the greatest of all judgments ever!
7 In the days of his flesh, Jesus offered up prayers and supplications, with loud cries and tears, to him who was able to save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverence.
8 Although he was a son, he learned obedience through what he suffered. Hebrews 5:8
So being in a pandemic might be one of our last chances to proclaim the Gospel to a dying world.
Satan and evil men have found it useful
But God can use it for good.
Done for Today
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,468
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Post by fearnot on Dec 5, 2020 12:24:33 GMT -5
Thinking about what the pandemic is really about, may depend, on more than one thing.
Right from the beginning, there was all manner of confusion. It started out being blamed on 'wet markets' in China and perhaps a virus jumping from one or more animals ( I think bats and some others were considered possible culprits).
Soon tho, people began to suspect, it had accidentally escaped from the only top level lab in Wuhan China.
And some conspiracies were that is was intentional so confusion reigned.
I remember in the beginning, I would watch the numbers of cases daily I also watched video out of China of people falling on sidewalks perhaps dying but at least because they were so sick.
Whatever the case, it did not take long, for the virus, to cover the world and then all manner of measures were taken by governments to flatten the curve, and contain the virus etc.
but it seems to me, that has morphed into a way to control the populations..
and to perhaps ( my speculation) lay the ground work potentially for the future anti-Christ.
However, even IF Satan and people have found that they can use this virus for their plans....
I think many people, are leaving God's plans out of the picture.
We know, so many End Times signs are happening at an ever accelerated rate
3 As he sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?” 4 And Jesus answered them, “See that no one leads you astray. Matthew 24:3,4
Jesus went on to explain more about the signs of the end of the age:
6 And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not alarmed, for this must take place, but the end is not yet.
7 For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8 All these are but the beginning of the birth pains.
9 “Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and put you to death, and you will be hated by all nations for my name's sake.
10 And then many will fall away and betray one another and hate one another.
11 And many false prophets will arise and lead many astray.
12 And because lawlessness will be increased, the love of many will grow cold.
Matthew 24:6-12
Our country has done it's best to be rid of God ( there is always a remnant that remains).
And it's not just our country but Europe, additionally, much of the world follows false gods.
Once again it reminds me of Jeremiah:
I spoke to you in your prosperity, but you said, ‘I will not listen.’ This has been your way from your youth, that you have not obeyed my voice. Jeremiah 22:21
In my mind, one of the heartbreaking sins is: child sacrifice in the form of abortion.
Ancient Israel began to follow Molech worship that was practiced by the Ammonites and Canaanites....
and put young babies and children into the red-hot outstretched arms of the bronze idol.
And God punished Israel ...
There was this:
The Lord spoke to Moses, saying, 2 “Say to the people of Israel, Any one of the people of Israel or of the strangers who sojourn in Israel who gives any of his children to Molech shall surely be put to death. Leviticus 20:1,2
All over the world today abortions are easy to get, very common and millions upon millions of babies die each year.
35 They built the high places of Baal in the Valley of the Son of Hinnom, to offer up their sons and daughters to Molech, though I ( God speaking) did not command them, nor did it enter into my mind, that they should do this abomination, to cause Judah to sin.
Jeremiah 32:35
In Proverbs one of the things listed as something God hates is:
..... hands that shed innocent blood, proverbs 6:17
There are many other sins that the world is doing to the extreme, and ever increasing in....
So that, God might be punishing people , with this virus ( and I think perhaps more things to soon come).
Done for today
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,468
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Post by fearnot on Dec 6, 2020 11:38:34 GMT -5
It seems there are many instances when God brings all manner of disasters when people turn from Him and rather mock Him or try to rid themselves and others of any thought of Him.
He will call to them, sometimes for several centuries but then out of anger and love let the disasters begin.
So thinking of this world wide Pandemic Once again Jeremiah comes to mind:
32 "Thus says the Lord of hosts: Behold, disaster is going forth from nation to nation,...........
33 “And those pierced by the Lord on that day shall extend from one end of the earth to the other.
Jeremiah 25: 32,33
Of course, Jeremiah was speaking to the peoples of his times But every time we see the phrase:
On that Day It is also looking to the far future.
Biblical prophecy is frequently like that on the one hand, speaking of the times in which it was told, but also, on the other hand speaking of a much more future time.
So these verses of Jeremiah speak to the End Times and to the tribulation I believe.
We today are living in the End Times and this world wide Pandemic is a part of God's judgment I think. However, it is also a great boon to Satan, and powerful people.
Some are inclined to think the phrase One world government or New world order or the Great Reset as just conspiracy talk The truth is it has been openly talked about since really..... the tower of Babel.
But just a few more recent quotes:
World Leaders and Famous People Promoting a New World Order and a One World Government
"National Socialism will use its own revolution for establishing a new world order."
Adolf Hitler during World War II
"The United Nations, he told an audience at Harvard University, 'has not been able--nor can it be able-- to shape a NEW WORLD ORDER which events so compellingly demand.' Gov. Nelson Rockefeller:
"All of us will ultimately be judged on the effort we have contributed to building a NEW WORLD ORDER."
Robert Kennedy, former U.S. Attorney-General, 1967.
"We are on the verge of a global transformation. All we need is the right major crisis
and the nations will accept the New World Order."
David Rockefeller
"Further global progress is now possible only through a quest for universal consensus in the movement towards a NEW WORLD ORDER."
Mikhail Gorbachev, in an address at the United Nations (December 1988)
"If we do not follow the dictates of our inner moral compass and stand up for human life, then his lawlessness will threaten the peace and democracy of the emerging NEW WORLD ORDER we now see, this long dreamed-of vision we've all worked toward for so long."
President George Bush (January 1991)
1995 - Jan 27: Billionaire financier George Soros at the World Economic Forum at Davos, Switzerland, says the world needs a "NEW WORLD ORDER"
and he further warns: "I am here to alert you that we are entering a period of world disorder."
George Soros: illuminati-news.com/worldleaders-quote-nwo.htm
I know....'Illuminati news' has a suspicious ring to it. LOL
I just grab the first site ( today is Sunday so rushing to go to church plus, a spider bite from 2 nights ago is bother me a lot) so not feeling great!!!
But all these quotes can be found in a more detailed search .... I have actually seen videos of ex-President George Bush, the elder saying exactly what was quoted on that site....
and there were a LOT more people quoted.
Note: that David Rockefeller, said: "All we need is the right major crisis"
I am thinking, maybe they have found it in this 'pandemic'.
My thought is the pandemic seems to be a useful tool for major power grabs.
and I am thinking it may be being used for setting up a coming 'one world government' with the anti-Christ as it world leader.
However, the anti-Christ will have a false prophet and a one world religion...
But it's greatest threat is Christianity and Christians
and so I see the pandemic also being used to hinder, cripple, and harm Christians
Satan is also stirring up many other ways to crush Christians as hateful, bigoted, evil people.
What are Christians to do until the Rapture?
2 Count it all joy, my brothers, when you meet trials of various kinds, James 1:2
We need to continue to pray and stay in the Bible give the gospel to those who are perishing and be lights in the world:
15 that you may be blameless and innocent, children of God without blemish in the midst of a crooked and twisted generation, among whom you shine as lights in the world, Philippians 2:15
Done for Today
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Post by Cindy on Dec 7, 2020 11:43:54 GMT -5
I think sin has grown greatly over the years and that God will judge it and people in the Tribulation..... but also now, and as in the past.
It seems like in the Bible, when God brought judgment on the nation of Israel, both believers and unbelievers suffered being taken away to another land, as slaves etc.
I don't think being a believer keeps us from sorrows, tragedies, persecution, or judgments
But believers can lean on the Lord during the trials:
2 Count it all joy, my brothers, when you meet trials of various kinds,
3 for you know that the testing of your faith produces steadfastness.
Also
33 I have said these things to you, that in me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation. But take heart; I have overcome the world.”
4 And let steadfastness have its full effect, that you may be perfect and complete, lacking in nothing. James 1:2-4
I think sometimes if and when believers and the unsaved face the same trial....
There will be some unbelievers that will note how differently most believers face difficulties Like:
13 But we do not want you to be uninformed, brothers, about those who are asleep, ( my note: it means they died) that you may not grieve as others do who have no hope.
1 Thessalonians 4:13
And also we can comfort some of them
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies and God of all comfort,
4 who comforts us in all our affliction,
so that we may be able to comfort those who are in any affliction, with the comfort with which we ourselves are comforted by God.
2 Corinthians 1:3,4
During the 10 plagues of God on Egypt thru Moses, the Jews were also in the land.
it seems that some of the first plagues may have effected the Jews also. But as more plagues came God protected the Jews from the later ones.
Believers and the unsaved have often been together in all sorts of natural disasters etc.
I wonder if in some way, this virus and chaos, violence, increasing sin etc.
might be similar to the days of Moses?
( for sure we are getting deeply into the days like the the days of Noah)
Now that the End Times are getting more severe there will come a time when God will protect the believers
( as He did with the Jews in Egypt, only the Rapture will be on a much more infinite scale)
from more judgments by taking us in the rapture
But that does not stop the beginnings of sorrows and judgments for now, we are still here.
8 All these are but the beginning of the birth pains. Matthew 24:8
Another factor of God allowing us Christians to suffer the present judgments may be to also discipline us.
7 It is for discipline that you have to endure. God is treating you as sons. For what son is there whom his father does not discipline? Hebrews 12:7
Not only that but our prayer is to become more like Jesus and Jesus suffered the greatest of all judgments ever!
7 In the days of his flesh, Jesus offered up prayers and supplications, with loud cries and tears, to him who was able to save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverence.
8 Although he was a son, he learned obedience through what he suffered. Hebrews 5:8
So being in a pandemic might be one of our last chances to proclaim the Gospel to a dying world.
Satan and evil men have found it useful
But God can use it for good.
Done for Today Good one! Thinking about what the pandemic is really about, may depend, on more than one thing.
Right from the beginning, there was all manner of confusion. It started out being blamed on 'wet markets' in China and perhaps a virus jumping from one or more animals ( I think bats and some others were considered possible culprits).
Soon tho, people began to suspect, it had accidentally escaped from the only top level lab in Wuhan China.
And some conspiracies were that is was intentional so confusion reigned.
I remember in the beginning, I would watch the numbers of cases daily I also watched video out of China of people falling on sidewalks perhaps dying but at least because they were so sick.
Whatever the case, it did not take long, for the virus, to cover the world and then all manner of measures were taken by governments to flatten the curve, and contain the virus etc.
but it seems to me, that has morphed into a way to control the populations..
and to perhaps ( my speculation) lay the ground work potentially for the future anti-Christ.
However, even IF Satan and people have found that they can use this virus for their plans....
I think many people, are leaving God's plans out of the picture.
We know, so many End Times signs are happening at an ever accelerated rate
3 As he sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?” 4 And Jesus answered them, “See that no one leads you astray. Matthew 24:3,4
Jesus went on to explain more about the signs of the end of the age:
6 And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not alarmed, for this must take place, but the end is not yet.
7 For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8 All these are but the beginning of the birth pains.
9 “Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and put you to death, and you will be hated by all nations for my name's sake.
10 And then many will fall away and betray one another and hate one another.
11 And many false prophets will arise and lead many astray.
12 And because lawlessness will be increased, the love of many will grow cold.
Matthew 24:6-12
Our country has done it's best to be rid of God ( there is always a remnant that remains).
And it's not just our country but Europe, additionally, much of the world follows false gods.
Once again it reminds me of Jeremiah:
I spoke to you in your prosperity, but you said, ‘I will not listen.’ This has been your way from your youth, that you have not obeyed my voice. Jeremiah 22:21
In my mind, one of the heartbreaking sins is: child sacrifice in the form of abortion.
Ancient Israel began to follow Molech worship that was practiced by the Ammonites and Canaanites....
and put young babies and children into the red-hot outstretched arms of the bronze idol.
And God punished Israel ...
There was this:
The Lord spoke to Moses, saying, 2 “Say to the people of Israel, Any one of the people of Israel or of the strangers who sojourn in Israel who gives any of his children to Molech shall surely be put to death. Leviticus 20:1,2
All over the world today abortions are easy to get, very common and millions upon millions of babies die each year.
35 They built the high places of Baal in the Valley of the Son of Hinnom, to offer up their sons and daughters to Molech, though I ( God speaking) did not command them, nor did it enter into my mind, that they should do this abomination, to cause Judah to sin.
Jeremiah 32:35
In Proverbs one of the things listed as something God hates is:
..... hands that shed innocent blood, proverbs 6:17
There are many other sins that the world is doing to the extreme, and ever increasing in....
So that, God might be punishing people , with this virus ( and I think perhaps more things to soon come).
Done for today
Good! But, Instead of saying that God is punishing people, I think it would be more accurate to say He's disciplining the people - both believers and unbelievers. Why unbelievers? Because they too know that God exists as He is shown in His creation and in their consciences, so they have no excuse. So He disciplines them to get their attention so they might be saved, and He disciplines His children to let them know that the time is short and that they need to be about His business, not their own.
It seems there are many instances when God brings all manner of disasters when people turn from Him and rather mock Him or try to rid themselves and others of any thought of Him.
He will call to them, sometimes for several centuries but then out of anger and love let the disasters begin.
So thinking of this world wide Pandemic Once again Jeremiah comes to mind:
32 "Thus says the Lord of hosts: Behold, disaster is going forth from nation to nation,...........
33 “And those pierced by the Lord on that day shall extend from one end of the earth to the other.
Jeremiah 25: 32,33
Of course, Jeremiah was speaking to the peoples of his times But every time we see the phrase:
On that Day It is also looking to the far future.
Biblical prophecy is frequently like that on the one hand, speaking of the times in which it was told, but also, on the other hand speaking of a much more future time.
So these verses of Jeremiah speak to the End Times and to the tribulation I believe.
We today are living in the End Times and this world wide Pandemic is a part of God's judgment I think. However, it is also a great boon to Satan, and powerful people.
Some are inclined to think the phrase One world government or New world order or the Great Reset as just conspiracy talk The truth is it has been openly talked about since really..... the tower of Babel.
But just a few more recent quotes:
World Leaders and Famous People Promoting a New World Order and a One World Government
"National Socialism will use its own revolution for establishing a new world order."
Adolf Hitler during World War II
"The United Nations, he told an audience at Harvard University, 'has not been able--nor can it be able-- to shape a NEW WORLD ORDER which events so compellingly demand.' Gov. Nelson Rockefeller:
"All of us will ultimately be judged on the effort we have contributed to building a NEW WORLD ORDER."
Robert Kennedy, former U.S. Attorney-General, 1967.
"We are on the verge of a global transformation. All we need is the right major crisis
and the nations will accept the New World Order."
David Rockefeller
"Further global progress is now possible only through a quest for universal consensus in the movement towards a NEW WORLD ORDER."
Mikhail Gorbachev, in an address at the United Nations (December 1988)
"If we do not follow the dictates of our inner moral compass and stand up for human life, then his lawlessness will threaten the peace and democracy of the emerging NEW WORLD ORDER we now see, this long dreamed-of vision we've all worked toward for so long."
President George Bush (January 1991)
1995 - Jan 27: Billionaire financier George Soros at the World Economic Forum at Davos, Switzerland, says the world needs a "NEW WORLD ORDER"
and he further warns: "I am here to alert you that we are entering a period of world disorder."
George Soros: illuminati-news.com/worldleaders-quote-nwo.htm
I know....'Illuminati news' has a suspicious ring to it. LOL
I just grab the first site ( today is Sunday so rushing to go to church plus, a spider bite from 2 nights ago is bother me a lot) so not feeling great!!!
But all these quotes can be found in a more detailed search .... I have actually seen videos of ex-President George Bush, the elder saying exactly what was quoted on that site....
and there were a LOT more people quoted.
Note: that David Rockefeller, said: "All we need is the right major crisis"
I am thinking, maybe they have found it in this 'pandemic'.
My thought is the pandemic seems to be a useful tool for major power grabs.
and I am thinking it may be being used for setting up a coming 'one world government' with the anti-Christ as it world leader.
However, the anti-Christ will have a false prophet and a one world religion...
But it's greatest threat is Christianity and Christians
and so I see the pandemic also being used to hinder, cripple, and harm Christians
Satan is also stirring up many other ways to crush Christians as hateful, bigoted, evil people.
What are Christians to do until the Rapture?
2 Count it all joy, my brothers, when you meet trials of various kinds, James 1:2
We need to continue to pray and stay in the Bible give the gospel to those who are perishing and be lights in the world:
15 that you may be blameless and innocent, children of God without blemish in the midst of a crooked and twisted generation, among whom you shine as lights in the world, Philippians 2:15
Done for Today
Where did you hear that idea about "in that day"? I'm curious as I've never heard that before and have seen places where that phrase is used that aren't prophetic... But then I could be wrong too...
I wouldn't go so far as to say they've been spoken of since the tower of Babel without adding that it is something that Satan and his demons encourage mankind to consider and do. Mostly we need to let others know that the conspiracy is Satan's, not humanities. People do carry out his plans but they do so because they belong to him and are his slaves. That alone is a very good reason that people shouldn't get invovled in conspiracy theories as their origin is from Satan.
We also need to let people know that just because Satan has planned this since the beginning, that does not mean that Christians should get involved reading "conspiracy theories. There is ample evidence to show that those who do so wind up being much more fearful in general then those who don't. (and fear is something Satan likes to generate in us). Studies also show that reading the conspiracy theory stuff is addictive. Yes, just like alcohol, drugs or cigarettes'. Addiction is another thing that Satan loves to cause, but he can't do it unless we cooperate by doing the thing that will bring it to pass. Another thing that happens is that reading the conspiracy stuff eventually will change the way a person thinks, and change their worldview to that of Satan's. Of course if they aren't saved, they'll already have a secular worldview with is also from Satan, so it really doesn't matter much for the unsaved. It does matter for Christians though, and they should not get involved reading that stuff. Is there any truth to the conspiracy theories. I'm sure there is. Satan couldn't sell it to anyone if there wasn't some truth to it. But most of it will be either truth taken out of context or truth twisted, or just plain lies; but all made up to look legit so that the people will keep reading and keep believing. Christians should instead be reading their Bibles.
I think the NIV makes it easier to understand what this passage is talking about: “At that time those slain by the LORD will be everywhere—from one end of the earth to the other. They will not be mourned or gathered up or buried, but will be like refuse lying on the ground.” (Jeremiah 25:33) Let me share what MacArthur says about these scriptures: Jeremiah 25:30–33 While embracing the judgments soon to come to Judah and other nations, this has end-time language (“one end of the earth to the other”) and must be ultimately fulfilled in the time of tribulation described in Rev 6–19. That doesn't mean that every time you see that phrase it's speaking of the end times, just that in this context it does.
Yes, 'Illuminati news' sounds very suspicious to me and throws up a big red flag as a likely conspiracy site.
I wanted to address something some other people are saying too, that the pandemic was created (in china!) to make sure that Trump didn't get re-elected. What we need to remember and keep reminding ourselves is that God is the one who ultimately decides who is going to be the president. He is the one who chose Obama (even though we hated him!) and He chose Trump, and now it looks like He may have chosen Biden. It doesn't matter one bit how Biden winds up president, what matters is that IF he does wind up as president, then we can be sure it's because our God placed him there.
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,468
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Post by fearnot on Dec 7, 2020 13:03:41 GMT -5
Sorry for the confusion....yet again sigh! LOL
I meant the 'On that Day' mentioned in the Jeremiah verse that I posted... that verse was ( or seemed to be) a 2 fold ( time wise) prophecy
But I also wrote:
Biblical prophecy is frequently like that double fold or double fulfillment on the one hand, speaking of the times in which it was told,
but also, on the other hand speaking of a much more future time.
I said 'frequently' because, I did not mean it was always the case.
Maybe frequently is the wrong word perhaps 'sometimes'?
In that day....
I was thinking when scripture says in that day it is some times looking towards a close future and a distant future or as
A. H. Strong puts it this way:
"Certain prophecies apparently contain a fulness of meaning which is not exhausted by the event to which they most obviously and literally refer.
A prophecy which had a partial fulfillment at a time not remote from its utterance, may find it's chief fulfillment in an event far distant.
Since the principles of God's administration find ever recurring and enlarging illustration in history, prophecies which have already had a partial fulfillment may have whole cycles of fulfillment yet before them. "
This quote was taken from an article:
THE PRINCIPLE OF DOUBLE FULFILLMENT IN INTERPRETING PROPHECY
DAVID JEREMIAH
Pastor. Blackhawk Baptist Church Fort Wayne. Indiana
Dr. David Jeremiah also wrote:
"The controversy over the principle of "double-fulfillment" in the interpretation of prophecy is not a new theological development.
Time has not solved the problem.
Today there are good men on both sides of the debate.
Perhaps Dwight Pentecost has stated the case in favor of the "double-sense" principle better than any other:
"Few laws are more important to observe in the interpretation of prophetic Scriptures than the law of double reference.
Two events, widely separated as to the time of their fulfillment~
may be brought together into the scope of prophecy."
Other men who have agreed with Pentecost as to the legitimacy of this principle are: Berkeley Mickelsen, Bernard Ramm, C. L. Feinberg, Charles Ryrie, and John Walvoord."
biblicalstudies.org.uk/pdf/grace-journal/13-2_13.pdf
I have always thought John Walvoord was kind of like John MacArthur.... also Dr. David Jeremiah But I know.... nobody ever gets it 100% correct, Still I tend to think, those pastors are very very good,
However this may be one of those times when it flat out wrong?
I know that was not the best site to have used as I said, I was not feeling well
so searching for a lot of different sites I did not have the energy to do
but I have seen at least 2 videos of ex-President George Bush Sr. talking about a New World Order.
I think it is pretty common thought?
And yes!!! I completely agree with you!!! I was totally remiss I absolutely should have said the very idea comes from Satan!!!
That is his plan and goal!!!
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,468
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Post by fearnot on Dec 7, 2020 13:55:49 GMT -5
One thing that seems to be happening with the pandemic is there seems to be a major epic spiritual battle, brewing.
I was listening to John MacArthur talking about Covid and he mentioned some of the serious effects of the way it is being handled.
One thing Pastor John mentioned was: in Japan there have been as many suicides, as deaths from Covid
In our country approximately 1/3 of all businesses have closed and 1/2 of all black businesses have had to closed
and many more sad consequences
one of the things John MacArthur said, that struck a cord with me was:
"Life is Terminal"
24 Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? Romans 7:24
And also the
'The tearing of the world to shreds proves other forces at at work'...
concerning the approach to Covid.
You can see exactly what Pastor MacArthur said, in this video:
Also in agreement about the approach to Covid being greatly concerning are: 38,020 medical practitioners and 12,688 medical & public health scientists
Who have signed the Great Barrington Declaration:
"As infectious disease epidemiologists and public health scientists we have grave concerns about the damaging physical and mental health impacts of the prevailing COVID-19 policies, and recommend an approach we call Focused Protection. gbdeclaration.org/view-signatures/
It seems odd to me that mayor Bill DeBlasio joked the coming vaccine was not 666 the Mark of the Beast.
Yes, there is such a conspiracy that think it is a fore runner to the Mark of the Beast....
And so in a way, it sounds like DeBlasio is just truth telling, trying to relieve any fears caused by the conspiracy....
But something about his saying this in a church service seemed off to me.....
Anyway the mayor said:
“I want to tell everybody, you’re not getting the 666 in this vaccine, OK?” he continued, invoking the biblical number of the beast. “I want to tell you straight-up, there is no 666, there’s no conspiracy, I’ll be the first one to get it if I’m allowed to.”
nypost.com/2020/12/06/mayor-de-blasio-urges-new-yorkers-to-embrace-covid-19-vaccine/
Maybe I felt it was strange, because this is the same man that:
New York Gov. coronavirus orders unfairly targeted houses of worship, federal judge Cuomo, de Blasio wrong to limit worship services, condone mass protests: federal judge
De Blasio had "simultaneous pro-protest/anti-religious gathering messages" when he "actively encouraged participation in protests and openly discouraged religious gatherings and threatened religious worshipers,"
Among many violations cited in the lawsuit, Thomas More points out de Blasio ignored social distancing and the 10-person limit when he didn't wear a face mask on June 4 while attending and addressing a mass political gathering at New York City's Cadman Plaza.
www.foxnews.com/us/new-york-coronavirus-reopen-plan-church-synagogue
and among other things this:
“My message to the Jewish community, and all communities, is this simple: the time for warnings has passed,” de Blasio wrote in a tweet. "I have instructed the NYPD to proceed immediately to summons or even arrest those who gather in large groups. This is about stopping this disease and saving lives. Period."
He was forced to apologize for targeting the Jewish community as a whole but doubled down on his remarks, calling it "tough love."
www.foxnews.com/us/new-york-coronavirus-reopen-plan-church-synagogue
In any case, I think, as more time goes by this verse is becoming clear as to 'what is going on'
( and has been going on, since the Garden of Eden)
only now, in the End Times it is speeding up and getting worse..... world wide worse.
12 For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places. Ephesians 6:12
Done for Today
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Post by Cindy on Dec 8, 2020 11:15:31 GMT -5
Sorry for the confusion....yet again sigh! LOL
I meant the 'On that Day' mentioned in the Jeremiah verse that I posted... that verse was ( or seemed to be) a 2 fold ( time wise) prophecy
But I also wrote:
Biblical prophecy is frequently like that double fold or double fulfillment on the one hand, speaking of the times in which it was told,
but also, on the other hand speaking of a much more future time.
I said 'frequently' because, I did not mean it was always the case.
Maybe frequently is the wrong word perhaps 'sometimes'?
In that day....
I was thinking when scripture says in that day it is some times looking towards a close future and a distant future or as
A. H. Strong puts it this way:
"Certain prophecies apparently contain a fulness of meaning which is not exhausted by the event to which they most obviously and literally refer.
A prophecy which had a partial fulfillment at a time not remote from its utterance, may find it's chief fulfillment in an event far distant.
Since the principles of God's administration find ever recurring and enlarging illustration in history, prophecies which have already had a partial fulfillment may have whole cycles of fulfillment yet before them. "
This quote was taken from an article:
THE PRINCIPLE OF DOUBLE FULFILLMENT IN INTERPRETING PROPHECY
DAVID JEREMIAH
Pastor. Blackhawk Baptist Church Fort Wayne. Indiana
Dr. David Jeremiah also wrote:
"The controversy over the principle of "double-fulfillment" in the interpretation of prophecy is not a new theological development.
Time has not solved the problem.
Today there are good men on both sides of the debate.
Perhaps Dwight Pentecost has stated the case in favor of the "double-sense" principle better than any other:
"Few laws are more important to observe in the interpretation of prophetic Scriptures than the law of double reference.
Two events, widely separated as to the time of their fulfillment~
may be brought together into the scope of prophecy."
Other men who have agreed with Pentecost as to the legitimacy of this principle are: Berkeley Mickelsen, Bernard Ramm, C. L. Feinberg, Charles Ryrie, and John Walvoord."
biblicalstudies.org.uk/pdf/grace-journal/13-2_13.pdf
I have always thought John Walvoord was kind of like John MacArthur.... also Dr. David Jeremiah But I know.... nobody ever gets it 100% correct, Still I tend to think, those pastors are very very good,
However this may be one of those times when it flat out wrong?
I know that was not the best site to have used as I said, I was not feeling well
so searching for a lot of different sites I did not have the energy to do
but I have seen at least 2 videos of ex-President George Bush Sr. talking about a New World Order.
I think it is pretty common thought?
And yes!!! I completely agree with you!!! I was totally remiss I absolutely should have said the very idea comes from Satan!!!
That is his plan and goal!!!
yes, I read what you said about prophecy hon, but since you didn't clear up the part about that particular phrase, it leaves the person reading it thinking that every time they see those words, it's a prophecy. This is the hard part about talking about God's Word. Especially if we know the person or people reading what we say, really well. Because we tend to think that they're going to understand what we mean, and they often do. But then someone we don't know comes along and they're really confused by it. So we have to check what we've written and ask ourselves if anyone could possibly misunderstand or twist what we've said and make sure that can't happen. The same thing happens when we're talking to people, but at least when we write it, we can fix it before we post it, (or after if we didn't see it). So that's a big plus and can help us realize where we tend to make that mistake, so that when we notice ourselves in the same kind of situation talking, we can make sure we don't do it there either.
The part where you explained about prophecy often having two fulfillments was fine and it's fine to say frequently, or many times, or any other way of saying that. I don't know why you thought I was talking about the two fulfillments, as I never even mention that. All I said was:
I'm sorry you went to all that trouble for nothing.
One thing that seems to be happening with the pandemic is there seems to be a major epic spiritual battle, brewing.
I was listening to John MacArthur talking about Covid and he mentioned some of the serious effects of the way it is being handled.
One thing Pastor John mentioned was: in Japan there have been as many suicides, as deaths from Covid
In our country approximately 1/3 of all businesses have closed and 1/2 of all black businesses have had to closed
and many more sad consequences
one of the things John MacArthur said, that struck a cord with me was:
"Life is Terminal"
24 Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? Romans 7:24
And also the
'The tearing of the world to shreds proves other forces at at work'...
concerning the approach to Covid.
You can see exactly what Pastor MacArthur said, in this video:
Also in agreement about the approach to Covid being greatly concerning are: 38,020 medical practitioners and 12,688 medical & public health scientists
Who have signed the Great Barrington Declaration:
"As infectious disease epidemiologists and public health scientists we have grave concerns about the damaging physical and mental health impacts of the prevailing COVID-19 policies, and recommend an approach we call Focused Protection. gbdeclaration.org/view-signatures/
It seems odd to me that mayor Bill DeBlasio joked the coming vaccine was not 666 the Mark of the Beast.
Yes, there is such a conspiracy that think it is a fore runner to the Mark of the Beast....
And so in a way, it sounds like DeBlasio is just truth telling, trying to relieve any fears caused by the conspiracy....
But something about his saying this in a church service seemed off to me.....
Anyway the mayor said:
“I want to tell everybody, you’re not getting the 666 in this vaccine, OK?” he continued, invoking the biblical number of the beast. “I want to tell you straight-up, there is no 666, there’s no conspiracy, I’ll be the first one to get it if I’m allowed to.”
nypost.com/2020/12/06/mayor-de-blasio-urges-new-yorkers-to-embrace-covid-19-vaccine/
Maybe I felt it was strange, because this is the same man that:
New York Gov. coronavirus orders unfairly targeted houses of worship, federal judge Cuomo, de Blasio wrong to limit worship services, condone mass protests: federal judge
De Blasio had "simultaneous pro-protest/anti-religious gathering messages" when he "actively encouraged participation in protests and openly discouraged religious gatherings and threatened religious worshipers,"
Among many violations cited in the lawsuit, Thomas More points out de Blasio ignored social distancing and the 10-person limit when he didn't wear a face mask on June 4 while attending and addressing a mass political gathering at New York City's Cadman Plaza.
www.foxnews.com/us/new-york-coronavirus-reopen-plan-church-synagogue
and among other things this:
“My message to the Jewish community, and all communities, is this simple: the time for warnings has passed,” de Blasio wrote in a tweet. "I have instructed the NYPD to proceed immediately to summons or even arrest those who gather in large groups. This is about stopping this disease and saving lives. Period."
He was forced to apologize for targeting the Jewish community as a whole but doubled down on his remarks, calling it "tough love."
www.foxnews.com/us/new-york-coronavirus-reopen-plan-church-synagogue
In any case, I think, as more time goes by this verse is becoming clear as to 'what is going on'
( and has been going on, since the Garden of Eden)
only now, in the End Times it is speeding up and getting worse..... world wide worse.
12 For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places. Ephesians 6:12
Done for Today
Good one. I need to tell you for future use, that when you're talking or writing to the general public, it's a good idea to really downplay the whole idea of anything being the Mark of the Beast, or even the forerunner to it. People tend to see their own fears when they read things like this, so the more that something is mentioned the more likely they are to think you're saying that something could be the forerunner or the Mark. So rather then quoting what someone else said, it's better to simply say that we should ignore anyone who talks about that since it's obviously not true. Then explain from the Bible why it can't be true. What I mean by they see what they fear, is that when we write something like: “I want to tell everybody, you’re not getting the 666 in this vaccine, OK?” They read it as: “I want to tell everybody, you’re getting the 666 in this vaccine, OK?”
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Post by Cindy on Dec 8, 2020 11:16:13 GMT -5
I also meant to thank you for posting the video of what MacArthur said about coved!
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