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Post by Cindy on Aug 21, 2020 10:02:37 GMT -5
I love that you added that what is impossible for man, is possible for God. And even if almost all children in public schools get indoctrinated into everything anti-God, anti-Christian, anti-Bible etc.
Still, some years later ( after school) do come to Jesus and are saved......sometimes in the most amazing ways.
For some reason I keep an eye on Elon Musk's neuralink ( perhaps its my 'horror' movie? LOL)
But today, I read a article titled:
Your Brain, With a USB Port in It: Elon Musk’s Neuralink Vision Divides Experts (From CBR site)
The reason, I mention this is the last quote by a leading neurosurgeon expert was sooooooo encouraging to me...
maybe in a way not intended but it so pointed to our amazing God!!
The expert said:
"Armitage summed up the complexity of the human brain with what he called a theoretically intractable problem:
“Famously, there aren’t enough atoms in the universe to build a full model of what every cell is doing [in the brain].
It’s a theoretically intractable problem,
you can’t even conceive of a computer large enough because there isn’t enough material in the universe to make it”.
To me reading that! Like WOW! How Great is our God.
And yet, people insist, this complex brain, just made itself, over millions of years and yet, we have a leading expert saying there is not enough material in the universe, to build a full model of what every cell is doing [in the brain].
We have this estimate of how big the universe is:
"While estimates among different experts vary, an acceptable range is between 100 billion and 200 billion galaxies, said Mario Livio, an astrophysicist at the Space Telescope Science Institute in Baltimore, Maryland.
And in each galaxy there are billions of suns and even more planets
Sooooo I would say, that is a LOT of material.......a LOT of atoms
and yet, it would not be enough atoms.... to make a computer large enough to build a model of what each cell in the brain is doing!!!
Of a brain .....that by 'chance' made itself
Ummmmm maybe not! It's seems more likely it was programmed,
by an all knowing programmer
Otherwise know as God!
I love it!
When I was a child we would recite the pledge of allegiance to flag
The reason I mention it is that it says:
To the republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all
Well, I am thinking, we are perhaps the farthest away from those ideals then ever in our history.
So yes, we had an actual 'war.'... the civil war and I think we are in a 'civil war' in our country right now
Only it is not be fought in the same way as the civil war, with armies lined up on a battle field, shooting at each other.
The war being fought now is more like guerrilla warfare (terrorists etc.). They are now fighting all over the country.
And the verse that come to my mind are:
[smear:#19e662] 24 If a kingdom is divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand. 25 And if a house is divided against itself, that house will not be able to stand. Mark 3:25[/smear:#e61961:0]
Of course, that is really the whole point of the riots today. To divide the country so it can no longer stand.
Yes, they may have started out as a protest against the police brutality against George Floyd but that became an opportunity:
to create a new socialist government by creating so much chaos and then.... a 'new order' out of the chaos.
By the way, it is not just in our country of protests/riots and chaos leading to a calling for a new world order you see it basically world wide.
[smear:#e9ed0b]6 And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not alarmed, for this must take place, but the end is not yet. Matthew 24:6[/smear:#eb0558:0]
And I believe Satan will use this tacit, so that during the tribulation people will be so stressed, fearful, tired etc. that will willing except a 'savior' the Antichrist.
There are two different people riding a white horse in the book of Revelation one is the Antichrist and later is Jesus
When things get so bad ( and after the rapture) the anti-Christ will come on the world stage promising and end to chaos and war, and promising peace.
[smear:#e65b19]2 And I looked, and behold, a white horse! And its rider had a bow, and a crown was given to him, Revelation 6:2[/smear:#037ab4:0]
and this verse, is the character of the Anti-Christ and his fallen angels.
[smear:#19e64a]Do not drag me off with the wicked, with the workers of evil, who speak peace with their neighbors while evil is in their hearts. Psalm 28:3[/smear:#f56c39:0]
there are mysteries in the Bible that only God knows (He has given us the information we need to know)
[smear:#a13979]29 “The secret things belong to the Lord our God, but the things that are revealed belong to us and to our children forever, that we may do all the words of this law. Deuteronomy 29:29[/smear:#299f81:0]
It is not super clear to me, exactly what will happen to the USA in the future?
Clearly the words Untied States of America, are not in the Bible.
Which does not necessarily meanthe USA is not referred to
But I wonder, if this could end up being a definition:
[smear:#e61942]How the hammer of the whole earth is cut down and broken! Jeremiah 50:23[/smear:#2b19e6:1]
The actual verse is in reference to Babylon.
But often scripture has an immediate time frame and also a future time meaning.
USA did ( and to some extent still is)
twas the hammer of the whole earth We have been the world's super power
But there are forces ( I would call them evil forces) that are working both from the outside and from within To cut America down and break her. Which to me, is very sad
Furthermore we as a nation, have been evil ( things like killing millions of babies in the womb over the years)
Still it is very sad the ideals and goals ( based on Christian values) were:
one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all
Are being destroyed before our eyes.
I have less and less hope no matter who wins the upcoming election that the on going civil war in our country will end and peace will reign
I will pray for our country, But it could be that God is at work in its destruction also.
Done for today.
Ok, I have to ask where you got the idea that that verse was talking about the USA? I googled it and found a few people claiming this was true, but not one single scriptural teacher, simply because it's not true. No matter how much we look, our country is not in the Bible, not by name or any other way. Which really isn't a big deal, except to our pride of course (which is a sin.) If we think about it logically though, 99% of all the countries in the world are not mentioned. Mainly it's just the mid east and the countries that were or are involved with Israel - generally in a very negative way. (in other words the countries that have or will attack her). So in that way, it's good that we're not listed! Neither is Canada, or England, Germany, France, Austria, Mexico, Australia, Argentina, Panama, and on and on and on and on. And their pride is looking to find something they can claim shows that they're in the Bible too! And yes, some teacher always shows up confirming that some word or phrase in the Bible is really talking about their country. You'd be amazed at how many are supposedly mentioned, but of course, none of them really are, including America.
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,585
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Post by fearnot on Aug 21, 2020 11:17:45 GMT -5
I guess I wasn't very clear, I was thinking of that verse more as a principle that could apply to any super strong country
I think I said I wondered if it could be applied ( well I did not write it like that)
Oh this is what I said ( but I did not make it clear sorry)
Clearly the words Untied States of America, are not in the Bible.
Which does not necessarily mean the USA is not referred to ...
( I was thinking .. but did not write, that maybe God's judgement against any super power country mentioned or not mentioned...
the verse would still hold or apply
I was not sure if there was some obscure reference... not by naming America but wondered if the fact we were a super power.... but now having turned evil in many ways..... so we are being broken down?
But I wonder, if this could end up being a definition:
( I was not trying to say it was definitely about USA.... but I just wondered could it apply to us.... mentioned or not or as a future judgment .....besides that present time towards just Babylon to any super power......including the US)
How the hammer of the whole earth is cut down and broken! Jeremiah 50:23
The actual verse is in reference to Babylon.
( i was hoping I was making it clear by saying the verse was actually in reference to Babylon....
but I was thinking the principle of great powerful nations, like Babylon and even the USA could become broken,,,due to grievous sin so that they not even mentioned in the tribulation)
But I clearly ....did not make it clear :( sigh!)
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,585
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Post by fearnot on Aug 21, 2020 11:30:37 GMT -5
I've been thinking about California. Every year, it seems they have some big fires, each summer.
This year is no exception, and its beginning to seem like they may already have more acres burning than every before....
( I am not sure about that.....but a LOT of acres are burning and most of the fires have zero or only 5% containment )
And most are getting bigger!!!
That got me to thinking about what does God say in His word about fire, and fires.
The first one I thought of was:
[smear:#6be619]29 for our God is a consuming fire. Hebrews 12:29[/smear:#087e89:0]
and
He said,
[smear:#f66445]“The Lord came from Sinai and dawned from Seir upon us; he shone forth from Mount Paran; he came from the ten thousands of holy ones, with flaming fire at his right hand. Deuteronomy 33:2[/smear:#306db3:0]
Those two verses remind me, If we turn our backs on God, all our lives until the day we die then this verse is the warning we should have known and paid attention to:
[smear:#0c9f20]31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. Hebrews 10:31[/smear:#e206f3:0]
I will try to be careful about being too speculative but I am thinking that if God did this to Sodom and Gomorrah because of their sins, wickedness and even more because they turned their backs on God God could do similar to any people, anywhere for similar wickedness. Even things like earthquakes, storms, fires etc. Do not happen without God knowledge, Sometimes it is judgment on people but not always.
[smear:#213aa9]24 Then the Lord rained on Sodom and Gomorrah sulfur and fire from the Lord out of heaven. Genesis 19:24[/smear:#c450eb:0]
I think that sometimes natural disasters are the natural consequence of mankind's general sin that effect the whole Creation
But at other times:
[smear:#106bb1]7 then the anger of the Lord will be kindled against you, and he will shut up the heavens, so that there will be no rain, and the land will yield no fruit, and you will perish quickly off the good land that the Lord is giving you. Deuteronomy 11:17[/smear:#e619bb:0]
Man is by nature sinful, rebellious, and opposed to God. We mostly do not thank God when we are free from natural disasters but when they come we often are angry at God.
We are no longer in the Garden of Eden we lost Paradise when we chose to sin and listen to the devil and rebelled against God
We could have Paradise regained forever only many people think we can do it with our own great intellects It will NOT happen
There is a way though Through Jesus.
I am not saying the fires in California are judgment from God though it could be but they do remind us of how fearful fires are and how we do not want to spend eternity in the lake of fire.
[smear:#66ba78]15 And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire. Revelation 20:15[/smear:#f4358b:0]
Done for today
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,585
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Post by fearnot on Aug 22, 2020 10:52:53 GMT -5
We believers are still greatly blessed, though we are living in a world where troubles, are increasing and growing daily now.
Even 'truth' is edging towards becoming considered by some as......actual 'treason' !!!
At this point, we can still read our Bibles,
( though how long before it will be banned, as 'hate' speech' is not known..... so memorizing and reading it daily is essential)
We need to be in the Word of God ( the Bible), because, there is so much comfort in God's Word the Bible.
God's Word, directs our hearts and minds. away from all the troubling circumstances we are facing, and turns us..... to Jesus.
[smear:#f708e5] “Let not your hearts be troubled. Believe in God; believe also in me. John 14:1[/smear:#86f40a:0]
and scripture even gives us peace, even though and while the world has so many difficulties (and worse than 'just' difficulties).
[smear:#9b3cf4]"You keep him in perfect peace whose mind is stayed on you, because he trusts in you". Isaiah 26:3[/smear:#56f436:0]
No matter what political party is in power it cannot produce the peace we long for.
There might be a lull, or a lessening of troubles...
But only God, alone, can give the peace that will allow us to remain calm and trusting even in the most fearful of circumstances!
Speaking of politics, and other fearful situations that are ongoing and growing,
we can easily become 'victimized' by them because they produce anger or fear.
But what did Jesus say in the Bible:
[smear:#5795f2]27 Peace I leave with you; my peace I give to you. Not as the world gives do I give to you. Let not your hearts be troubled, neither let them be afraid. John 14:27[/smear:#f634e9:0]
And while it is easier today, than ever, to let all the events and adversities, hardships, distresses etc. rob us of any peace
God says in His Word:
3[smear:#19c1e6]4 “Therefore do not be anxious about tomorrow, for tomorrow will be anxious for itself. Sufficient for the day is its own trouble. Matthew 6:34[/smear:#fc8b32:0]
So even though we know things are unlikely to get better ( or not for long we will have a respite)... we should not be trying to live in tomorrow. while it is today.
Rather, we ought to
[smear:#045abd]15 And let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts.... Colossians 3:15[/smear:#e6198a:0]
Another thing the Bible tells us:
1[smear:#c7072d]5 Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16 For all that is in the world— the desires of the flesh and the desires of the eyes and pride of life— is not from the Father but is from the world. 17 And the world is passing away along with its desires, but whoever does the will of God abides forever. 1 john 2:15-17 [/smear:#060266:0]
We have to remember we are not really of this world, it is not our 'home' we are just passing thru:
[smear:#f82a03]19 If you were of the world, the world would love you as its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you. John 15:19[/smear:#0cb214:0]
And so as we watching the vanishing act of compassion and many hearts growing cold we can say with the apostle Paul: [smear:#de19e6] 8 We are afflicted in every way, but not crushed; perplexed, but not driven to despair; 9 persecuted, but not forsaken; struck down, but not destroyed; 10 always carrying in the body the death of Jesus, so that the life of Jesus may also be manifested in our bodies. 11 For we who live are always being given over to death for Jesus' sake, so that the life of Jesus also may be manifested in our mortal flesh. 2 Corinthians 4:8-11[/smear:#35b605:0]
Along with all the outward things going on we have our own bodies which are on an ever downward spiral.
Even in that the Bible gives comfort:
[smear:#c336c6]16 So we do not lose heart. Though our outer self is wasting away, our inner self is being renewed day by day. 2 Corinthians 4:16[/smear:#06c8f5:0]
So while things continue to spiral out of control and downward we can be overcomers, by love and compassion
No we can't fix everything but to those around us through the love of Christ we can be obedient to Him and still sow His love to the unlovable
[smear:#d008f7]1 Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good. Romans 12:21[/smear:#8b0f26:0]
Oh....just to be clear I too am often 'unlovable' and in my past....... yeah!
And we come back to... staying in God's Word the Bible for these days ( and any days)
[smear:#6eb0212 Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed ]by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect. Romans 12:2[/smear:#e619d0:0]
How do we renew our minds.... not by being conformed to the 'world' and it's knowledge,
but by God's word.
Done for today.
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,585
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Post by fearnot on Aug 23, 2020 10:35:49 GMT -5
Today, I am again wondering about the upcoming election. I could be very wrong, as I am not an election or social expert, bit it seems to me, anger, frustration, violence etc. is at an all time high.
People ( not even a lot of Christians) seem to be practicing
[smear:#e6192a]Whoever is slow to anger is better than the mighty, and he who rules his spirit than he who takes a city. Proverbs 16:32[/smear:#0b0ca4:1]
Which therefore started me wondering about what should Christians do, if a full out civil war comes to pass? ( no matter how the election goes or who wins, there will be perhaps more upset people than ever before)
I think there are perhaps.... good scriptural basis for joining one of two, possible actions.
I will try to present them and look at the pros and cons of each.
But first, I think some of the blame we are where we are today is partially Christians like myself, who were and still are, pretty much in a cowardly mode and feared and still fear spreading the gospel, because of fear of people).
Sadly, this next verses fit me way more than I wish:
[smear:#ac19e6]4 “I tell you, my friends, do not fear those who kill the body, and after that have nothing more that they can do.
5 But I will warn you whom to fear: fear him who, after he has killed, has authority to cast into hell... Luke 12:4,5[/smear:#b719e6:0]
it is rare if you speak to someone about Jesus and salvation, they actual try to kill you, but they can get very angry, so much so, it can almost seem like, they wish to kill you!
I think there have even been pastors, that because they fear anger of people, instead opted for
[smear:#42f76d]3 For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, 2 Timothy 4:3[/smear:#e619dc:0]
Well that time has come and has actually been around for a long time and we are reaping the results. the snare has been set and we are trapped:
[smear:#b0d503]The fear of man lays a snare, but whoever trusts in the Lord is safe. Proverbs 29:25[/smear:#f52fb8:0]
Of course, the fear of man is not new even in Isaiah day's it was prevelant [smear:#9419e6] “I, I am he who comforts you;
who are you that you are afraid of man who dies, of the son of man who is made like grass, Isaiah 51:12[/smear:#e64219:0]
However, there is a difference from someone getting angry or even yelling at you to those who would literally physical try to harm you in some way or even kill you.
King David, was a man that had to face many wars where people wished to kill him So he has some insights about such fear like this:
[smear:#e619a0]5 Out of my distress I called on the Lord; the Lord answered me and set me free.
6 The Lord is on my side; I will not fear. What can man do to me?
7 The Lord is on my side as my helper; I shall look in triumph on those who hate me. Psalms 118:5-7[/smear:#58f43c:0]
Sometimes, I think my fear is imagined or an over active imagination but people have already been killed in these peaceful protests that then turn into riots, looting, burning things and deliberate trying to hurt or kill policemen and woman.
Which brings me to this verse where Jesus said:
[smear:#40bc60] 39 But I say to you, Do not resist the one who is evil. But if anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. Matthew 5:39[/smear:#d319e6:0]
I think I need to know, to what degree did Jesus mean about not resisting Is he just talking about if we are insulted? Did He mean unto death? ( He being our example) what about soldiers? what about a father protecting his wife and family from a killer invading their home? I will 'try' to look at this more tomorrow.
Done for today
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,585
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Post by fearnot on Aug 24, 2020 10:43:21 GMT -5
I think this verse below can be a bit confusing. Some might see it as absolute passivism to the point of being a basic doormat. In today's world I think it might be good to try and see what Jesus meant, when He said it.
[smear:#84e619]39 But I say to you, Do not resist the one who is evil. But if anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. Matthew 5:39[/smear:#c119e6:0]
Feel free to jump in if I seem to be veering off track.
One thing, I 'think' it does mean is Christians are not to start a feud or go for revenge, if someone insults them.
[smear:#09baa5]18 If possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all. Romans 12:18[/smear:#e6198e:0]
I think one of the easiest places in today's world for this to happen, is on a chat board on the internet where it is simple to let one's anger, rage and wrath to be unreigned if someone seems to disrespect us, or bruises or dignity.
People who have been careful taught to be 'proud' do not take well to being dishonored, demeaned, disgraced, humiliated, embarrassed and the like.
Two character traits that are not so much taught today are humility and forgiveness.
These are looked at as being 'weak' and a doormat but what does God say?
[smear:#fa35a4]10 Humble yourselves before the Lord, and he will exalt you. James 4:10[/smear:#1b19e6:0]
It is kind of an interesting juxtaposing of two ideas: children today are being taught in school to be 'proud of themselves'
and yet, at the same time, they are also being taught that their country, the US is too proud and haughty.
[smear:#9819e6]For you save a humble people, but the haughty eyes you bring down. Psalm 18:27[/smear:#f70d93:0]
None of this denies that there are people filled with hatred and that we are told by Jesus, God the Son:
[smear:#36af75]43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’
44 But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, Matthew 5:43-44[/smear:#5419e6:0]
But is Jesus saying we ought to let those who hate us abuse us and our loved ones?
We do know there are other verses saying we are to 'resist' evil.
This next verse does not tell us to engage the devil and try to battle him but it does say (I think) to resist ( as in spiritual self-preservation) [smear:#f7d50a] 7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. James 4:7[/smear:#1965e6:0]
I think it means we are to resist Satanic evil but where and how.
One place would be in the church. That is one place we most certainly do not want to lay down at let The devil win the 'war'. In fact we are told if someone is involved even in sexual immorality we ( church leaders) are told:
[smear:#fbb208]5 you are to deliver this man to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord. 1 Corinthians 5:5[/smear:#19e685:0]
However, I don't think this is done even in the slightest in most churches not even a sermon on it is generally touched with a 10 foot pole.
Nor is this followed as it would be considered way way too harsh and too humiliating, demeaning, cruel, disrespectful etc.
In today's world this seems waaay over the top Frankly, being a product of today's world, I shudder at the very thought of this..
I am not sure how it would come about even? and yet......
[smear:#e6194b]20 As for those who persist in sin, rebuke them in the presence of all, so that the rest may stand in fear. 1 Timothy 5:20[/smear:#9e19e6:0]
Also, God has ordained an institution to deal with evil so we are not subject to being doormats to crime:
[smear:#049999]1 Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. 2 Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. 3 For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, 4 for he is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, ..... Romans 13:1-4[/smear:#e619d4:0]
The above verses are especially interesting in a day, when there are communities defunding police and talk of getting rid of them altogether!
In fact, it seems the world wants to rid itself, not only of God, but even of His institutions Like marriage, police, church etc.
Speaking of evil in church Jesus, Himself, chased evil out of the church in His day.
[smear:#38b7f6]15 And making a whip of cords, he drove them all out of the temple, with the sheep and oxen. And he poured out the coins of the money-changers and overturned their tables. John 2:15[/smear:#f833ee:0]
Done for today
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Post by Cindy on Aug 25, 2020 9:58:27 GMT -5
I guess I wasn't very clear, I was thinking of that verse more as a principle that could apply to any super strong country
I think I said I wondered if it could be applied ( well I did not write it like that)
Oh this is what I said ( but I did not make it clear sorry)
Clearly the words Untied States of America, are not in the Bible.
Which does not necessarily mean the USA is not referred to ...
( I was thinking .. but did not write, that maybe God's judgement against any super power country mentioned or not mentioned...
the verse would still hold or apply
I was not sure if there was some obscure reference... not by naming America but wondered if the fact we were a super power.... but now having turned evil in many ways..... so we are being broken down?
But I wonder, if this could end up being a definition:
( I was not trying to say it was definitely about USA.... but I just wondered could it apply to us.... mentioned or not or as a future judgment .....besides that present time towards just Babylon to any super power......including the US)
How the hammer of the whole earth is cut down and broken! Jeremiah 50:23
The actual verse is in reference to Babylon.
( i was hoping I was making it clear by saying the verse was actually in reference to Babylon....
but I was thinking the principle of great powerful nations, like Babylon and even the USA could become broken,,,due to grievous sin so that they not even mentioned in the tribulation)
But I clearly ....did not make it clear :( sigh!)
That's ok, remember, I've been and still am in a lot of pain too, so maybe someone who's not in pain would have understood what you meant. But now that you've explained it, I do get it... thank you!
I've been thinking about California. Every year, it seems they have some big fires, each summer.
This year is no exception, and its beginning to seem like they may already have more acres burning than every before....
( I am not sure about that.....but a LOT of acres are burning and most of the fires have zero or only 5% containment )
And most are getting bigger!!!
That got me to thinking about what does God say in His word about fire, and fires.
The first one I thought of was:
[smear:#6be619]29 for our God is a consuming fire. Hebrews 12:29[/smear:#087e89:0]
and
He said,
[smear:#f66445]“The Lord came from Sinai and dawned from Seir upon us; he shone forth from Mount Paran; he came from the ten thousands of holy ones, with flaming fire at his right hand. Deuteronomy 33:2[/smear:#306db3:0]
Those two verses remind me, If we turn our backs on God, all our lives until the day we die then this verse is the warning we should have known and paid attention to:
[smear:#0c9f20]31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. Hebrews 10:31[/smear:#e206f3:0]
I will try to be careful about being too speculative but I am thinking that if God did this to Sodom and Gomorrah because of their sins, wickedness and even more because they turned their backs on God God could do similar to any people, anywhere for similar wickedness. Even things like earthquakes, storms, fires etc. Do not happen without God knowledge, Sometimes it is judgment on people but not always.
[smear:#213aa9]24 Then the Lord rained on Sodom and Gomorrah sulfur and fire from the Lord out of heaven. Genesis 19:24[/smear:#c450eb:0]
I think that sometimes natural disasters are the natural consequence of mankind's general sin that effect the whole Creation
But at other times:
[smear:#106bb1]7 then the anger of the Lord will be kindled against you, and he will shut up the heavens, so that there will be no rain, and the land will yield no fruit, and you will perish quickly off the good land that the Lord is giving you. Deuteronomy 11:17[/smear:#e619bb:0]
Man is by nature sinful, rebellious, and opposed to God. We mostly do not thank God when we are free from natural disasters but when they come we often are angry at God.
We are no longer in the Garden of Eden we lost Paradise when we chose to sin and listen to the devil and rebelled against God
We could have Paradise regained forever only many people think we can do it with our own great intellects It will NOT happen
There is a way though Through Jesus.
I am not saying the fires in California are judgment from God though it could be but they do remind us of how fearful fires are and how we do not want to spend eternity in the lake of fire.
[smear:#66ba78]15 And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire. Revelation 20:15[/smear:#f4358b:0]
Done for today
You handled this beautifully. It's perfectly OK to say that what happened to Sodom or Babylon etc could happen to us or another country because of their sin. It's just that we can't say that a specific passage in the Bible is talking about our country or England or some other unmentioned country. In fact, I can't remember which one, but a well known Pastor said that if God punished Sodom and Gomorrah for their sin then He would have to punish the US or be called unjust. I too often think that bad storms or floods or fires etc could be judgments from God, but we can't know for sure since He hasn't said so in His Word. So when we say something like that, it's best to say it's what we think, not what the Bible says. We can certainly show what the Bible does say about the subject to support our view; we just have to be very careful about putting words in God's mouth, so to speak.
We believers are still greatly blessed, though we are living in a world where troubles, are increasing and growing daily now.
Even 'truth' is edging towards becoming considered by some as......actual 'treason' !!!
At this point, we can still read our Bibles,
( though how long before it will be banned, as 'hate' speech' is not known..... so memorizing and reading it daily is essential)
We need to be in the Word of God ( the Bible), because, there is so much comfort in God's Word the Bible.
God's Word, directs our hearts and minds. away from all the troubling circumstances we are facing, and turns us..... to Jesus.
[smear:#f708e5] “Let not your hearts be troubled. Believe in God; believe also in me. John 14:1[/smear:#86f40a:0]
and scripture even gives us peace, even though and while the world has so many difficulties (and worse than 'just' difficulties).
[smear:#9b3cf4]"You keep him in perfect peace whose mind is stayed on you, because he trusts in you". Isaiah 26:3[/smear:#56f436:0]
No matter what political party is in power it cannot produce the peace we long for.
There might be a lull, or a lessening of troubles...
But only God, alone, can give the peace that will allow us to remain calm and trusting even in the most fearful of circumstances!
Speaking of politics, and other fearful situations that are ongoing and growing,
we can easily become 'victimized' by them because they produce anger or fear.
But what did Jesus say in the Bible:
[smear:#5795f2]27 Peace I leave with you; my peace I give to you. Not as the world gives do I give to you. Let not your hearts be troubled, neither let them be afraid. John 14:27[/smear:#f634e9:0]
And while it is easier today, than ever, to let all the events and adversities, hardships, distresses etc. rob us of any peace
God says in His Word:
3[smear:#19c1e6]4 “Therefore do not be anxious about tomorrow, for tomorrow will be anxious for itself. Sufficient for the day is its own trouble. Matthew 6:34[/smear:#fc8b32:0]
So even though we know things are unlikely to get better ( or not for long we will have a respite)... we should not be trying to live in tomorrow. while it is today.
Rather, we ought to
[smear:#045abd]15 And let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts.... Colossians 3:15[/smear:#e6198a:0]
Another thing the Bible tells us:
1[smear:#c7072d]5 Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16 For all that is in the world— the desires of the flesh and the desires of the eyes and pride of life— is not from the Father but is from the world. 17 And the world is passing away along with its desires, but whoever does the will of God abides forever. 1 john 2:15-17 [/smear:#060266:0]
We have to remember we are not really of this world, it is not our 'home' we are just passing thru:
[smear:#f82a03]19 If you were of the world, the world would love you as its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you. John 15:19[/smear:#0cb214:0]
And so as we watching the vanishing act of compassion and many hearts growing cold we can say with the apostle Paul: [smear:#de19e6] 8 We are afflicted in every way, but not crushed; perplexed, but not driven to despair; 9 persecuted, but not forsaken; struck down, but not destroyed; 10 always carrying in the body the death of Jesus, so that the life of Jesus may also be manifested in our bodies. 11 For we who live are always being given over to death for Jesus' sake, so that the life of Jesus also may be manifested in our mortal flesh. 2 Corinthians 4:8-11[/smear:#35b605:0]
Along with all the outward things going on we have our own bodies which are on an ever downward spiral.
Even in that the Bible gives comfort:
[smear:#c336c6]16 So we do not lose heart. Though our outer self is wasting away, our inner self is being renewed day by day. 2 Corinthians 4:16[/smear:#06c8f5:0]
So while things continue to spiral out of control and downward we can be overcomers, by love and compassion
No we can't fix everything but to those around us through the love of Christ we can be obedient to Him and still sow His love to the unlovable
[smear:#d008f7]1 Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good. Romans 12:21[/smear:#8b0f26:0]
Oh....just to be clear I too am often 'unlovable' and in my past....... yeah!
And we come back to... staying in God's Word the Bible for these days ( and any days)
[smear:#6eb0212 Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed ]by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect. Romans 12:2[/smear:#e619d0:0]
How do we renew our minds.... not by being conformed to the 'world' and it's knowledge,
but by God's word.
Done for today.
good job! You made me think of this scripture, which would be another good one to use for this thread if you want to: “and if he rescued Lot, a righteous man, who was distressed by the filthy lives of lawless men (for that righteous man, living among them day after day, was tormented in his righteous soul by the lawless deeds he saw and heard)— if this is so, then the Lord knows how to rescue godly men from trials and to hold the unrighteous for the day of judgment, while continuing their punishment.” (2 Peter 2:7–9)
Today, I am again wondering about the upcoming election. I could be very wrong, as I am not an election or social expert, bit it seems to me, anger, frustration, violence etc. is at an all time high.
People ( not even a lot of Christians) seem to be practicing
[smear:#e6192a]Whoever is slow to anger is better than the mighty, and he who rules his spirit than he who takes a city. Proverbs 16:32[/smear:#0b0ca4:1]
Which therefore started me wondering about what should Christians do, if a full out civil war comes to pass? ( no matter how the election goes or who wins, there will be perhaps more upset people than ever before)
I think there are perhaps.... good scriptural basis for joining one of two, possible actions.
I will try to present them and look at the pros and cons of each.
But first, I think some of the blame we are where we are today is partially Christians like myself, who were and still are, pretty much in a cowardly mode and feared and still fear spreading the gospel, because of fear of people).
Sadly, this next verses fit me way more than I wish:
[smear:#ac19e6]4 “I tell you, my friends, do not fear those who kill the body, and after that have nothing more that they can do.
5 But I will warn you whom to fear: fear him who, after he has killed, has authority to cast into hell... Luke 12:4,5[/smear:#b719e6:0]
it is rare if you speak to someone about Jesus and salvation, they actual try to kill you, but they can get very angry, so much so, it can almost seem like, they wish to kill you!
I think there have even been pastors, that because they fear anger of people, instead opted for
[smear:#42f76d]3 For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, 2 Timothy 4:3[/smear:#e619dc:0]
Well that time has come and has actually been around for a long time and we are reaping the results. the snare has been set and we are trapped:
[smear:#b0d503]The fear of man lays a snare, but whoever trusts in the Lord is safe. Proverbs 29:25[/smear:#f52fb8:0]
Of course, the fear of man is not new even in Isaiah day's it was prevelant [smear:#9419e6] “I, I am he who comforts you;
who are you that you are afraid of man who dies, of the son of man who is made like grass, Isaiah 51:12[/smear:#e64219:0]
However, there is a difference from someone getting angry or even yelling at you to those who would literally physical try to harm you in some way or even kill you.
King David, was a man that had to face many wars where people wished to kill him So he has some insights about such fear like this:
[smear:#e619a0]5 Out of my distress I called on the Lord; the Lord answered me and set me free.
6 The Lord is on my side; I will not fear. What can man do to me?
7 The Lord is on my side as my helper; I shall look in triumph on those who hate me. Psalms 118:5-7[/smear:#58f43c:0]
Sometimes, I think my fear is imagined or an over active imagination but people have already been killed in these peaceful protests that then turn into riots, looting, burning things and deliberate trying to hurt or kill policemen and woman.
Which brings me to this verse where Jesus said:
[smear:#40bc60] 39 But I say to you, Do not resist the one who is evil. But if anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. Matthew 5:39[/smear:#d319e6:0]
I think I need to know, to what degree did Jesus mean about not resisting Is he just talking about if we are insulted? Did He mean unto death? ( He being our example) what about soldiers? what about a father protecting his wife and family from a killer invading their home? I will 'try' to look at this more tomorrow.
Done for today
You said:"Sometimes, I think my fear is imagined or an over active imagination" and I think your right and it really often is an over active imagination. Do you remember way back when I was working with you and Eva and you both told me that you didn't have an imagination and didn't know what an imagination was? I was totally floored, I couldn't believe it! I figured Eva's problem was a problem with the language, but didn't know how to deal with it with you. I don't remember if I ever said anything, but over a long period of time, I have often seen that over active imagination at work in you
Feel free to continue talking about this, but remember you began this post by saying:Which therefore started me wondering about what should Christians do,
if a full out civil war comes to pass?
( no matter how the election goes or who wins,
there will be perhaps more upset people than ever before)
I think there are perhaps....
good scriptural basis for joining one of two, possible actions.
I think this verse below can be a bit confusing. Some might see it as absolute passivism to the point of being a basic doormat. In today's world I think it might be good to try and see what Jesus meant, when He said it.
[smear:#84e619]39 But I say to you, Do not resist the one who is evil. But if anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. Matthew 5:39[/smear:#c119e6:0]
Feel free to jump in if I seem to be veering off track.
One thing, I 'think' it does mean is Christians are not to start a feud or go for revenge, if someone insults them.
[smear:#09baa5]18 If possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all. Romans 12:18[/smear:#e6198e:0]
I think one of the easiest places in today's world for this to happen, is on a chat board on the internet where it is simple to let one's anger, rage and wrath to be unreigned if someone seems to disrespect us, or bruises or dignity.
People who have been careful taught to be 'proud' do not take well to being dishonored, demeaned, disgraced, humiliated, embarrassed and the like.
Two character traits that are not so much taught today are humility and forgiveness.
These are looked at as being 'weak' and a doormat but what does God say?
[smear:#fa35a4]10 Humble yourselves before the Lord, and he will exalt you. James 4:10[/smear:#1b19e6:0]
It is kind of an interesting juxtaposing of two ideas: children today are being taught in school to be 'proud of themselves'
and yet, at the same time, they are also being taught that their country, the US is too proud and haughty.
[smear:#9819e6]For you save a humble people, but the haughty eyes you bring down. Psalm 18:27[/smear:#f70d93:0]
None of this denies that there are people filled with hatred and that we are told by Jesus, God the Son:
[smear:#36af75]43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’
44 But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, Matthew 5:43-44[/smear:#5419e6:0]
But is Jesus saying we ought to let those who hate us abuse us and our loved ones?
We do know there are other verses saying we are to 'resist' evil.
This next verse does not tell us to engage the devil and try to battle him but it does say (I think) to resist ( as in spiritual self-preservation) [smear:#f7d50a] 7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. James 4:7[/smear:#1965e6:0]
I think it means we are to resist Satanic evil but where and how.
One place would be in the church. That is one place we most certainly do not want to lay down at let The devil win the 'war'. In fact we are told if someone is involved even in sexual immorality we ( church leaders) are told:
[smear:#fbb208]5 you are to deliver this man to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord. 1 Corinthians 5:5[/smear:#19e685:0]
However, I don't think this is done even in the slightest in most churches not even a sermon on it is generally touched with a 10 foot pole.
Nor is this followed as it would be considered way way too harsh and too humiliating, demeaning, cruel, disrespectful etc.
In today's world this seems waaay over the top Frankly, being a product of today's world, I shudder at the very thought of this..
I am not sure how it would come about even? and yet......
[smear:#e6194b]20 As for those who persist in sin, rebuke them in the presence of all, so that the rest may stand in fear. 1 Timothy 5:20[/smear:#9e19e6:0]
Also, God has ordained an institution to deal with evil so we are not subject to being doormats to crime:
[smear:#049999]1 Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. 2 Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. 3 For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, 4 for he is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, ..... Romans 13:1-4[/smear:#e619d4:0]
The above verses are especially interesting in a day, when there are communities defunding police and talk of getting rid of them altogether!
In fact, it seems the world wants to rid itself, not only of God, but even of His institutions Like marriage, police, church etc.
Speaking of evil in church Jesus, Himself, chased evil out of the church in His day.
[smear:#38b7f6]15 And making a whip of cords, he drove them all out of the temple, with the sheep and oxen. And he poured out the coins of the money-changers and overturned their tables. John 2:15[/smear:#f833ee:0]
Done for today
“But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. If someone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.” (Matthew 5:39–42) Here's what MacArthur says about this: do not resist an evil person. Like v. 38, this deals only with matters of personal retaliation, not criminal offenses or acts of military aggression. Jesus applied this principle of non-retaliation to affronts against one’s dignity (v. 39), lawsuits to gain one’s personal assets (v. 40), infringements on one’s liberty (v. 41), and violations of property rights (v. 42). He was calling for a full surrender of all personal rights. The MacArthur study Bible
“Submit yourselves, then, to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.” (James 4:7) Here's what MacArthur says about this: To “resist the devil” gives us insight into what it means to be an enemy of Satan. “Resist” means “to take a stand against” the person of Satan and his entire system, which includes everything he does and represents. Such resistance is the complete opposite of the position you had before you submitted to God. Eph 2:1–2 reminds us of what that position was. At that time, you had no power to resist the Devil and no desire to serve God, because you were slaves to Satan and his system (Heb. 2:14–15). But all of that can and will change if you humbly switch your allegiance from Satan’s kingdom to God’s kingdom. James is promising you that as a part of that changed loyalty, you will automatically be in a position to take a stand against Satan. The minute you forsake Satan’s mastery he will flee from you. Many Christians wrongly assume that Satan is much more powerful than he really is. But if you understand James’s promise you will know you have abundant spiritual resources to handle Satan’s empty threats. Being humble before God doesn’t mean being weak before Satan. God enables you to stand firm and resist. Strength for today James 4:7–10: In a series of 10 commands (10 imperative verbs in the Gr. text), James reveals how to receive saving grace. These verses delineate man’s response to God’s gracious offer of salvation, and disclose what it means to be humble. The MacArthur study Bible
I use MacArthur because I trust what he says and also because I also know that's what these scriptures mean. You gave the example of 1 Corinthians 5:5 for how we're to do this in the church body, but this is speaking of a last ditch effort to save someone. It sounds much worse then it really is, or maybe it's much worse then we see it when we know what he's talking about... either way, what he's actually saying is to excommunicate that person from the church body. The first things done to resist Satan and to draw near to God when it involves someone in the Church are found in Matthew 18:15–20.
As for Matthew 5:39–42, that's speaking of things that happen to us personally. So when someone calls us a name, we're not to respond to them in anger. We're to remain calm and loving toward them. If they hit us, we're to continue to remain calm and loving. We don't have to stay there, we can turn and walk away, but we cannot hit them back, or say something mean to them. Instead we're to tell them we forgive them (and of course we're to say that because we mean it.)
If someone wants one or some of our belongings, we're to let them have them, because we know that God loves that person and because we're to love that person like He does; and also because we're to see people as much more important then any of our physical belongings. Because we're saved we know the Lord will take care of us, therefore we don't need to store up a bunch of food or get a bunch of belongings, including clothes and furniture. So if someone else wants what we have or needs it, then we should willingly give it to them along with our love.
I learned this after I helped a neighbor who needed food. I "went shopping" through all of our food and gave her quite a bit. Enough to last her the week anyway. But I kept more for us. When I read this afterward, I realized I'd done it backward. I should have given the majority of our food and kept only enough for us to get us to the weekend when we could get more.
This isn't saying that if someone molests a child that they should be allowed to get away with it; or if someone beats up their wife. Not at all. Yes, they should be forgiven, so that we will no longer be victims but instead be healed and be victorious through Jesus. But they should also be sent to jail/prison to pay for their crime. We should also pray that they will find Jesus and ultimately be saved. People often think it's horrible that God would allow a man who hurt a child that way into heaven. But if you really think about it, if that man is truly saved, then knowing what he did to that child or children, will be an emotional and mental hell he will have to live in for the rest of his life. Of course if they aren't truly saved then what they did won't bother them, but then they will be going to hell when they die.
I think the best way to figure out what we should do in any circumstance is to simply ask ourselves what Jesus would do in that same circumstance, and then follow His example.
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,585
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Post by fearnot on Aug 25, 2020 11:16:10 GMT -5
Thank you Cindy for all your great additions, muchly appreciated :D And indeed I loved the verse you picked about Lot because, it seems so relevant for this very day ( though it thousands of years old!!)
[smear:#fa7555]“and if he rescued Lot, a righteous man, who was distressed by the filthy lives of lawless men (for that righteous man, living among them day after day, was tormented in his righteous soul by the lawless deeds he saw and heard)— if this is so, then the Lord knows how to rescue godly men from trials and to hold the unrighteous for the day of judgment, while continuing their punishment.” (2 Peter 2:7–9) [/smear:#7c5df1:0]
This brings me back to a 'what if" scenario concerning the extreme divide in the USA and the upcoming election and riots going on for over 3 months now.
This is just me, and I am certainly absolutely NOT a prophet LOL
However, I do have a concern, that no matter which party or person wins the election it could light a tinderbox, and these riots will not die away but only continue and get worse I hope my 'imagination' is wrong!
But 'what If', a civil war, of some sort, and to some degree, breaks out in the near future?
What is a Christian to do? As you pointed out that my favorite living pastor and Bible expositor John MacArthur explained,
turning the other cheek is about: Personal insults and personal assets.
[smear:#19dce6]38 “You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.’ 39 But I say to you, Do not resist the one who is evil. But if anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. 40 And if anyone would sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. Matthew 5:38-40[/smear:#e019e6:0]
However, this is not saying to turn your face away from Child abuse, wife abuse, someone coming into your home or city even with the intent to kill.
If a man breaks into your home and rapes your wife turning the other cheek does not mean, you are to give him your young daughter If a killer comes in a shoots your son you do not give him your wife to shoot.
That verse is about personal insults If it is just a verbal insult, we are to have a higher ethic!!
By the Holy Spirit in us we are truly 'different', than how the world would react o being demeaned by turning the other cheek..... not retaliating and getting revenge.
But what are we to do about those willing to go to war in order to turn our country into a socialist/communist one?
To me, it is not so much the economics, that such a change would bring. Even when Jesus was on earth He did not fight the Romans.
But there is more to communism than just economics. It has always been: atheistic, anti-church, Anti-Bible, Anti-God anti-Christianity, militaristic, rigid, etc,
Suppressing 'the truth' stirs up God's wrath:
[smear:#14e3d6]18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. Romans 1:18[/smear:#0b199d:0]
Sometimes God, Himself ,will end this evil Sometimes He has His people actually fight, kill, and war against evil....
and sometimes there is a delay....before evil is conquered.
If someone is abusing a child or a wife is being abused to get oneself out of that situation I think is okay and even necessary
[smear:#d2f808] The prudent sees danger and hides himself, but the simple go on and suffer for it. Proverbs 22:3[/smear:#f4054d:0]
I think if a Christian has done all that is possible to turn back hate with love and has forgiven the person then....
They need to protect children and themselves. It seems to me, that perhaps, too many people wait too long, to get out of a dangerous situation.
But what about a civil or guerrilla type war, if it comes? I think God does allow us to kill someone who is trying to kill us.
I am thinking even Jesus indicated there might come a time for self-defense:
[smear:#6fd088]35 And he said to them, “When I sent you out with no moneybag or knapsack or sandals, did you lack anything?” They said, “Nothing.”
36 He said to them, “But now let the one who has a moneybag take it, and likewise a knapsack. And let the one who has no sword sell his cloak and buy one. Luke 22:35,36[/smear:#e158d7:0]
I certainly am not saying this is what Christians should do. We are still under the great commission our priority, is give people the gospel, so they might have eternal life.
And that is in my mind, the worst thing if we are ever in a situation of kill or be killed.....
It is not death and dying, so much We all are going to die sooner or later
But if we are ever forced to kill someone it ends their chance to be saved.
On the other hand, if they are determined to kill the weak and have a gun pointed at your ( children, elderly, a wife, etc etc.) then those you love ones, must be protected.
[smear:#04bba5]Rescue the weak and the needy; deliver them from the hand of the wicked.” Psalm 82:4[/smear:#fd12a6:0]
As much as a Christian would grieve for the lost soul , who choose to go down such an evil route as to join a civil war to change our country and be willing to kill people....
This is sadly also the truth for them:
[smear:#c42542]7 Do not be deceived: God is not mocked, for whatever one sows, that will he also reap. Galatians 6:7[/smear:#12f7c7:0]
I think there is a difference between 'choosing violence and murder'.......
and self-defense
I do think self-defense should be the last course of action, "IF' possible.
I for sure, do not know if our country will really come to this.
Still, it appears to me, that on some level we have had 50 years of socialist/communist indoctrination in our school/college system, that is not going away quickly....
The endless riots don't really often seem to be all about police brutality...
but often seem rather to be a convenient excuse to try to turn over the system we have and change it.
I pray we will not have this happen!
However, there seems to be a chance it could happen.... only time will tell.
So in the mean time we need to continue to do whatever we can to spread the gospel.
Done for
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Post by Cindy on Aug 26, 2020 10:27:35 GMT -5
Thank you Cindy for all your great additions, muchly appreciated :D And indeed I loved the verse you picked about Lot because, it seems so relevant for this very day ( though it thousands of years old!!)
[smear:#fa7555]“and if he rescued Lot, a righteous man, who was distressed by the filthy lives of lawless men (for that righteous man, living among them day after day, was tormented in his righteous soul by the lawless deeds he saw and heard)— if this is so, then the Lord knows how to rescue godly men from trials and to hold the unrighteous for the day of judgment, while continuing their punishment.” (2 Peter 2:7–9) [/smear:#7c5df1:0]
This brings me back to a 'what if" scenario concerning the extreme divide in the USA and the upcoming election and riots going on for over 3 months now.
This is just me, and I am certainly absolutely NOT a prophet LOL
However, I do have a concern, that no matter which party or person wins the election it could light a tinderbox, and these riots will not die away but only continue and get worse I hope my 'imagination' is wrong!
But 'what If', a civil war, of some sort, and to some degree, breaks out in the near future?
What is a Christian to do? As you pointed out that my favorite living pastor and Bible expositor John MacArthur explained,
turning the other cheek is about: Personal insults and personal assets.
[smear:#19dce6]38 “You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.’ 39 But I say to you, Do not resist the one who is evil. But if anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. 40 And if anyone would sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. Matthew 5:38-40[/smear:#e019e6:0]
However, this is not saying to turn your face away from Child abuse, wife abuse, someone coming into your home or city even with the intent to kill.
If a man breaks into your home and rapes your wife turning the other cheek does not mean, you are to give him your young daughter If a killer comes in a shoots your son you do not give him your wife to shoot.
That verse is about personal insults If it is just a verbal insult, we are to have a higher ethic!!
By the Holy Spirit in us we are truly 'different', than how the world would react o being demeaned by turning the other cheek..... not retaliating and getting revenge.
But what are we to do about those willing to go to war in order to turn our country into a socialist/communist one?
To me, it is not so much the economics, that such a change would bring. Even when Jesus was on earth He did not fight the Romans.
But there is more to communism than just economics. It has always been: atheistic, anti-church, Anti-Bible, Anti-God anti-Christianity, militaristic, rigid, etc,
Suppressing 'the truth' stirs up God's wrath:
[smear:#14e3d6]18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. Romans 1:18[/smear:#0b199d:0]
Sometimes God, Himself ,will end this evil Sometimes He has His people actually fight, kill, and war against evil....
and sometimes there is a delay....before evil is conquered.
If someone is abusing a child or a wife is being abused to get oneself out of that situation I think is okay and even necessary
[smear:#d2f808] The prudent sees danger and hides himself, but the simple go on and suffer for it. Proverbs 22:3[/smear:#f4054d:0]
I think if a Christian has done all that is possible to turn back hate with love and has forgiven the person then....
They need to protect children and themselves. It seems to me, that perhaps, too many people wait too long, to get out of a dangerous situation.
But what about a civil or guerrilla type war, if it comes? I think God does allow us to kill someone who is trying to kill us.
I am thinking even Jesus indicated there might come a time for self-defense:
[smear:#6fd088]35 And he said to them, “When I sent you out with no moneybag or knapsack or sandals, did you lack anything?” They said, “Nothing.”
36 He said to them, “But now let the one who has a moneybag take it, and likewise a knapsack. And let the one who has no sword sell his cloak and buy one. Luke 22:35,36[/smear:#e158d7:0]
I certainly am not saying this is what Christians should do. We are still under the great commission our priority, is give people the gospel, so they might have eternal life.
And that is in my mind, the worst thing if we are ever in a situation of kill or be killed.....
It is not death and dying, so much We all are going to die sooner or later
But if we are ever forced to kill someone it ends their chance to be saved.
On the other hand, if they are determined to kill the weak and have a gun pointed at your ( children, elderly, a wife, etc etc.) then those you love ones, must be protected.
[smear:#04bba5]Rescue the weak and the needy; deliver them from the hand of the wicked.” Psalm 82:4[/smear:#fd12a6:0]
As much as a Christian would grieve for the lost soul , who choose to go down such an evil route as to join a civil war to change our country and be willing to kill people....
This is sadly also the truth for them:
[smear:#c42542]7 Do not be deceived: God is not mocked, for whatever one sows, that will he also reap. Galatians 6:7[/smear:#12f7c7:0]
I think there is a difference between 'choosing violence and murder'.......
and self-defense
I do think self-defense should be the last course of action, "IF' possible.
I for sure, do not know if our country will really come to this.
Still, it appears to me, that on some level we have had 50 years of socialist/communist indoctrination in our school/college system, that is not going away quickly....
The endless riots don't really often seem to be all about police brutality...
but often seem rather to be a convenient excuse to try to turn over the system we have and change it.
I pray we will not have this happen!
However, there seems to be a chance it could happen.... only time will tell.
So in the mean time we need to continue to do whatever we can to spread the gospel.
Done for
Good!
But what are the two possible actions??? LOL You've never actually said and I'm curious!
And you've just walked into one area that I love to debate when you said: "On the other hand, if they are determined to kill the weak and have a gun pointed at your ( children, elderly, a wife, etc etc.) then those you love ones, must be protected. " Why must they be protected? They weren't protected during the time of the first Christians. Instead they were fed to lions, crucified, boiled in oil, tied to poles and set on fire, and all kinds of other horrible things. The lucky ones got killed instantly with a spear or arrow. Here's a bit of interesting history about Peter: Peter was as much a model of spiritual leadership in death as he was in life. Jesus told him he would be crucified for God’s glory, & early church tradition tells us that he was. But first, his executioners forced him to watch the crucifixion of his wife. As he stood at the foot of her cross, he encouraging her by saying over & over, “Remember the Lord.” When it was time for his own crucifixion, he requested that he be crucified upside-down because he felt unworthy to die as his Lord had died. His request was granted. Drawing Near I'm not suggesting that it didn't cause much heartache for parents to see their children killed in such a way, or for husbands to see their wives killed, etc. but they didn't do what people today would do. They didn't "do whatever it takes to prevent them from being killed". They did the same thing Jesus did. They knew that if this was happening, that it was because the Lord had given that government or person the power to do it, (John 19:11) and they did what Jesus did when He was falsely accused and tortured. “When they hurled their insults at him, he did not retaliate; when he suffered, he made no threats. Instead, he entrusted himself to him who judges justly.” (1 Peter 2:23) Many people seem to think that in cases where a loved one's life is on the line that it's then ok to lie to protect them. But lying is a sin and even doing it at a time like that, it's still a sin. Yes, God will forgive us, but we should at least admit to knowing that we're sinning when we do it.
What's most amazing to me about how the early Christians lived and died for Christ, is that many of them practically turned themselves in so that they could be killed for Christ! Why? Partly because they loved Him that much and had been taught that it was an honor to die for Him. Something that's still taught in the countries where Christians are still killed, but sadly, not here. Think of Paul even, when he wrote that letter from prison knowing that he would soon die for Christ. Yet he didn't try to escape; he didn't lie about anything; he accepted that the will of God would be done. When he thought about it, and tried to decide what he wanted the verdict of his case to be - whether he wanted them to say he was guilty and kill him, or say he was innocent and let him go; his thought was, “I eagerly expect and hope that I will in no way be ashamed, but will have sufficient courage so that now as always Christ will be exalted in my body, whether by life or by death. For to me, to live is Christ and to die is gain. If I am to go on living in the body, this will mean fruitful labor for me. Yet what shall I choose? I do not know! I am torn between the two: I desire to depart and be with Christ, which is better by far; but it is more necessary for you that I remain in the body.” (Philippians 1:20–24)
The other thing that amazes me about how they lived and died is that we know that a great many of them didn't experience any pain when they died, regardless of what kind of torture they were under. They died smiling, singing, and praising God with all their hearts. They knew their Master and King had defeated death, pain, disease, and sorrow, and they couldn't wait to be with Him. This was even true of the little children. (those who's parents had taught them the Truth about Jesus). They knew that the death of this body would simply allow them to be in Paradise with their Lord forever, never to sin or feel pain or sorrow again. That's what I want too.
If you want to, I'd love to debate this further as there are plenty of other scriptures to apply; but only if you want to, ok? I just don't have any more time today.
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,585
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Post by fearnot on Aug 26, 2020 10:56:11 GMT -5
It seems to me that not a day goes by where this verse Does not prove itself true of the unbelieving word today:
[smear:#4be619]Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter! Isaiah 5:20[/smear:#08d4f8:0]
I heard an interesting example of this the other day where stealing and looting was called feeding the hungry and even more to the point it is now called reparations. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
But back to what to do if civil war breaks out?
The other option besides not turning the cheek unto death, Which is what soldiers and police do they do carry guns, and fight for the weak etc.
The other option, would be to do what the first century Believers did, and that is to die and not to demand life...... at all costs.
It reminds me of these verses:
[smear:#03c9a1]21 For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain. and 23 I am hard pressed between the two. My desire is to depart and be with Christ, for that is far better Philippians 1:21,23[/smear:#e63319:0]
But I actually was not exactly thinking about whatever 'government', demanded Christians to die I was thinking more about what about a civil war not sanctioned by our government. Still, one option is defense the other is not to kill
I am not really sure if the Amish are Christians or if they are like Jehovah's Witnesses or 7th day etc.
but I think, they do not believe in fighting for one's country or defending oneself against violence
So in that respect it seems they do teach more or less what you wrote:
"What's most amazing to me about how the early Christians lived and died for Christ, is that many of them practically turned themselves in so that they could be killed for Christ! Why? Partly because they loved Him that much and had been taught that it was an honor to die for Him. Something that's still taught in the countries where Christians are still killed, but sadly, not here".
So the other option, would be pacifism, not fighting,... and....
considering it an honor to die for our Lord.
One of the verses in that case would be:
[smear:#6d7df3]44 But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, Matthew 5:44[/smear:#f14ae9:0]
That verse seems to indicate the Christian is not fighting for their life or against persecution ( or death),
but rather, loves and prays for the persecutor. The Christian is not overly concerned about dying.
And in keeping with your pointing out we would not be happy that our little ones, spouse, or even our selves... would be killed or tortured, and it would cause heartache
This verse would apply, I think:
[smear:#9c0b57]19 For this is a gracious thing, when, mindful of God, one endures sorrows while suffering unjustly. 1 Peter 2:19[/smear:#19e661:0]
And in some respect those who suffer and die also will be blessed:
2[smear:#f80798]1 “Blessed are you who are hungry now, for you shall be satisfied.
“Blessed are you who weep now, for you shall laugh.
22 “Blessed are you when people hate you and when they exclude you and revile you and spurn your name as evil, on account of the Son of Man! 23 Rejoice in that day, and leap for joy, for behold, your reward is great in heaven; for so their fathers did to the prophets. Luke 6:21-23[/smear:#1948e6:0]
We are not to be surprised when it comes
[smear:#07f715]12 Beloved, do not be surprised at the fiery trial when it comes upon you to test you, as though something strange were happening to you. 1 Peter 4:12[/smear:#e61923:0]
And we are to leave our souls in God's hands:
[smear:#3e95f3] 9 Therefore let those who suffer according to God's will entrust their souls to a faithful Creator while doing good. 1 Peter 4:19[/smear:#e619cc:0]
And these verse are to be considered:
[smear:#49ae6b]19 Beloved, never avenge yourselves, but leave it to the wrath of God, for it is written, “Vengeance is mine, I will repay, says the Lord.”
20 To the contrary, “if your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink; for by so doing you will heap burning coals on his head.” 21 Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good. Romans 12:19-21[/smear:#c529f9:0]
and this:
5[smear:#f7cc0d]2 Then Jesus said to him, “Put your sword back into its place. For all who take the sword will perish by the sword. Matthew 26:52 [/smear:#e61938:0]
Done for Today
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,585
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Post by fearnot on Aug 27, 2020 9:59:03 GMT -5
It just occurred to me, that so far, 2020 has been a lot about the fear of death. Corvid 19, Antifa and BLM's issues, riots etc.
People including some Christians are afraid of death.
[smear:#a33cf5]14 Since therefore the children share in flesh and blood, he himself (Jesus) likewise partook of the same things, that through death he might destroy the one who has the power of death, that is, the devil,
15 and deliver all those who through fear of death were subject to lifelong slavery. Hebrews 2:14,15[/smear:#1382cf:0]
I think this verse about David, sums up how many are feeling
[smear:#fa2e26]My heart is in anguish within me; the terrors of death have fallen upon me. Psalms 55:4 [/smear:#0a32b7:0]
At least for the Christian that is suffering fear, or anxiety at this time, and some are Here are 2 verses, which speaks of afflictions, sufferings etc. but also give some godly solutions:
[smear:#f6d407]17 For this light momentary affliction is preparing for us an eternal weight of glory beyond all comparison, 18 as we look not to the things that are seen but to the things that are unseen. For the things that are seen are transient, but the things that are unseen are eternal. 2 Corinthians 4:17,18[/smear:#0a7fa2:0]
and this
[smear:#35f353]18 For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worth comparing with the glory that is to be revealed to us. Romans 8:18[/smear:#f62a9b:0]
And there are many more helpful, uplifting and encouraging verses when the fear of death tries to take away our peace I will list a few, that I need to be comforted by:
I like this first one, because, I am 'hearing' God's Word which is part of the requirement:
[smear:#5ccb63] 24 Truly, truly, I ( Jesus) say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him ( God the Father) who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life. John 5:24[/smear:#c868d7:0]
And this verse is very helpful with all manner of new crazy scary things cropping up almost daily:
3[smear:#8c01db]8 For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, 39 nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation,
will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 8:38,39[/smear:#f38a42:0]
All Christians can camp on this verse also:
[smear:#fd988a]8 For if we live, we live to the Lord, and if we die, we die to the Lord. So then, whether we live or whether we die, we are the Lord's. Romans 14:8[/smear:#1979e6:0]
Here is something we may not often consider when being fearful of dying God might be sparing us from further and future evil!
[smear:#edbc6d]1 The righteous man perishes, and no one lays it to heart; devout men are taken away, while no one understands. For the righteous man is taken away from calamity; 2 he enters into peace; they rest in their beds who walk in their uprightness. Isaiah 57:1,2[/smear:#eb50fa:0]
And instead, this will be the Christians lot and experience:
[smear:#f16c87] 4 He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain anymore, for the former things have passed away.” Revelation 21:4 [/smear:#d719e6:0]
Furthermore, I am anxious to see what God has prepared for us eternally endlessly interesting things, of beauty love, joy, etc. We cannot even imagine but it will never be boring, always growing and full of peace, love, without pain or sorrow etc.
[smear:#0e9982]“What no eye has seen, nor ear heard, nor the heart of man imagined, what God has prepared for those who love him”— 1 Corinthians 2:9[/smear:#f412c5:0]
and this:
[smear:#9d68b0]1 For we know that if the tent that is our earthly home is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. 2 For in this tent we groan, longing to put on our heavenly dwelling, 2 Corinthians 5:1,2[/smear:#f9d903:0]
Done for today
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Post by Cindy on Aug 27, 2020 10:15:58 GMT -5
It seems to me that not a day goes by where this verse Does not prove itself true of the unbelieving word today:
[smear:#4be619]Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter! Isaiah 5:20[/smear:#08d4f8:0]
I heard an interesting example of this the other day where stealing and looting was called feeding the hungry and even more to the point it is now called reparations. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
But back to what to do if civil war breaks out?
The other option besides not turning the cheek unto death, Which is what soldiers and police do they do carry guns, and fight for the weak etc.
The other option, would be to do what the first century Believers did, and that is to die and not to demand life...... at all costs.
It reminds me of these verses:
[smear:#03c9a1]21 For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain. and 23 I am hard pressed between the two. My desire is to depart and be with Christ, for that is far better Philippians 1:21,23[/smear:#e63319:0]
But I actually was not exactly thinking about whatever 'government', demanded Christians to die I was thinking more about what about a civil war not sanctioned by our government. Still, one option is defense the other is not to kill
I am not really sure if the Amish are Christians or if they are like Jehovah's Witnesses or 7th day etc.
but I think, they do not believe in fighting for one's country or defending oneself against violence
So in that respect it seems they do teach more or less what you wrote:
"What's most amazing to me about how the early Christians lived and died for Christ, is that many of them practically turned themselves in so that they could be killed for Christ! Why? Partly because they loved Him that much and had been taught that it was an honor to die for Him. Something that's still taught in the countries where Christians are still killed, but sadly, not here".
So the other option, would be pacifism, not fighting,... and....
considering it an honor to die for our Lord.
One of the verses in that case would be:
[smear:#6d7df3]44 But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, Matthew 5:44[/smear:#f14ae9:0]
That verse seems to indicate the Christian is not fighting for their life or against persecution ( or death),
but rather, loves and prays for the persecutor. The Christian is not overly concerned about dying.
And in keeping with your pointing out we would not be happy that our little ones, spouse, or even our selves... would be killed or tortured, and it would cause heartache
This verse would apply, I think:
[smear:#9c0b57]19 For this is a gracious thing, when, mindful of God, one endures sorrows while suffering unjustly. 1 Peter 2:19[/smear:#19e661:0]
And in some respect those who suffer and die also will be blessed:
2[smear:#f80798]1 “Blessed are you who are hungry now, for you shall be satisfied.
“Blessed are you who weep now, for you shall laugh.
22 “Blessed are you when people hate you and when they exclude you and revile you and spurn your name as evil, on account of the Son of Man! 23 Rejoice in that day, and leap for joy, for behold, your reward is great in heaven; for so their fathers did to the prophets. Luke 6:21-23[/smear:#1948e6:0]
We are not to be surprised when it comes
[smear:#07f715]12 Beloved, do not be surprised at the fiery trial when it comes upon you to test you, as though something strange were happening to you. 1 Peter 4:12[/smear:#e61923:0]
And we are to leave our souls in God's hands:
[smear:#3e95f3] 9 Therefore let those who suffer according to God's will entrust their souls to a faithful Creator while doing good. 1 Peter 4:19[/smear:#e619cc:0]
And these verse are to be considered:
[smear:#49ae6b]19 Beloved, never avenge yourselves, but leave it to the wrath of God, for it is written, “Vengeance is mine, I will repay, says the Lord.”
20 To the contrary, “if your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink; for by so doing you will heap burning coals on his head.” 21 Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good. Romans 12:19-21[/smear:#c529f9:0]
and this:
5[smear:#f7cc0d]2 Then Jesus said to him, “Put your sword back into its place. For all who take the sword will perish by the sword. Matthew 26:52 [/smear:#e61938:0]
Done for Today
Well said!
When I said that they had been taught that it was an honor to die for Jesus, I didn't mean to imply that they all meekly and willingly walked to their deaths without in any way trying to save their life. I don't think the Lord would approve of that. If there was a way to keep from being arrested and or immediately being killed, such as by hiding, or by being alert and posting guards to let you know if someone was coming or other things you could do secretly, then that's what they did. It was only when they had been found out and running either didn't work and they were caught, or there was nowhere to run that they then accepted that it was the will of God and went quietly.
You said: "And we are to leave our souls in God's hands: " which is true, but we're to leave our bodies in His Hand too!
I'm still really confused about what you're saying the two options are if civil war breaks out here. It seems like you're saying the options are to fight or just lay down and die. But that doesn't make sense. When people fight, many of them will also die. And of those who don't fight, some of them will die too. So either way people are going to die. The people who don't believe in fighting don't avoid fighting because they want to die, they avoid it because they don't want to kill another human being.
I would also like to point out that while civil war is a good possibility, there's also another possibility, that of anarchy; because that's what many people seem to want today. (such as those who don't want any police).
I've got to run today, see you tomorrow, I hope!
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Post by Cindy on Aug 28, 2020 8:54:40 GMT -5
Since you haven't posted yet, I thought I'd add something to what I said yesterday:
There are also a number of other things that could happen besides a civil war or anarchy: (or a civil war could end in anarchy) 1. We could wind up in a war with another country or countries; 2. There could be an EMP attack either by another country or caused by the sun. 3. There's also the possibility of another world wide depression starting. In fact, I'd say that's almost a certainty at this point. Especially considering that a majority of people live way beyond their means, relying on credit and/or credit cards to get them what they want, instead of buying with cash they have on hand. 4. Terrorist Hackers from other countries or our own country could shut the internet down, after messing with many institutions, which would affect just about everything. It would close banks, and disrupt emergency services and all kinds of things, putting the country in a panic. 5. I don't think it's very likely, but our God could also put everything on hold again for who knows how long.
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,585
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Post by fearnot on Aug 28, 2020 10:37:40 GMT -5
It's funny you mentioned hiding because I was going to mention that today.
I probably should have said, there are several options people ( and Christians might take if a civil war, guerrilla warfare, or anarchy continues to get worse)
Right, I understand you didn't mean to actually turn themselves in so they could die kind of how some people, use police to kill them, instead of suicide
or as you said:
"they had been taught that it was an honor to die for Jesus,
I didn't mean to imply that they all meekly and willingly walked to their deaths without in any way trying to save their life. I don't think the Lord would approve of that."
but at the time, I was kind of taking this as a cue for the scripture verses I was choosing as not to fear death:
"What's most amazing to me about how the early Christians lived and died for Christ, is that many of them 'practically' turned themselves in so that they could be killed for Christ!"
Anyway, I was going to mention hiding as another possibility.....
We know Jesus was on a 'time table' and certain spiritual and godly things had to be accomplished before going back to Heaven.
( like making a way for sinners to be eternally saved, and conquering death and the devil etc.)
So there were times when people sought to kill Him Before those things were accomplished... and so.... He often hid Himself.
[smear:#be5a3a]59 So they picked up stones to throw at him, but Jesus hid himself and went out of the temple. John 8:59[/smear:#9619e6:0]
Also
[smear:#45923e]30 So they were seeking to arrest him, but no one laid a hand on him, because his hour had not yet come. John 7:30 [/smear:#fd05d3:0]
During the tribulation believers are told to 'flee' ( I think that is like hiding oneself)
[smear:#e6a019]15 “So when you see the abomination of desolation spoken of by the prophet Daniel, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand), 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. Matthew 24:15,16[/smear:#04758f:0]
You mentioned posting guards and that might be in keeping with these verses
[smear:#e6cd19] 1 The word of the Lord came to me: 2 “Son of man, speak to your people and say to them, If I bring the sword upon a land, and the people of the land take a man from among them, and make him their watchman, 3 and if he sees the sword coming upon the land and blows the trumpet and warns the people, 4 then if anyone who hears the sound of the trumpet does not take warning, and the sword comes and takes him away, his blood shall be upon his own head. 5 He heard the sound of the trumpet and did not take warning; his blood shall be upon himself. But if he had taken warning, he would have saved his life. 6 But if the watchman sees the sword coming and does not blow the trumpet, so that the people are not warned, and the sword comes and takes any one of them, that person is taken away in his iniquity, but his blood I will require at the watchman's hand. Ezekiel 33:1-6[/smear:#e61940:0]
And there is this verse to consider even IF you have weapons they may not always be able to save you you may be out gunned on the other hand God is never outgunned:
[smear:#62cd86]“....Do not be afraid of them. Remember the Lord, who is great and awesome, and fight for your brothers, your sons, your daughters, your wives, and your homes.” Nehemiah 4:14[/smear:#fe39d9:0]
and this
[smear:#ade619]6 For not in my bow do I trust, nor can my sword save me.
7 But you have saved us from our foes and have put to shame those who hate us Psalms 44:6,7[/smear:#9619e6:0]
Plus:
[smear:#41f57b]47 and that all this assembly may know that the Lord saves not with sword and spear. For the battle is the Lord's, and he will give you into our hand.” 1 Samuel 17:47[/smear:#7004c1:0]
And perhaps the tendency to quickly resort to violence has been glorified in our culture with movies, comics, music etc etc. so that kids grow up wanting to be superman and the like. And yet God says:
[smear:#70fd0a]Do not envy a man of violence and do not choose any of his ways, Proverbs 3:31[/smear:#03f9e2:0]
But I digress, here is a final verse on hiding:
[smear:#b746db]The prudent sees danger and hides himself, but the simple go on and suffer for it. Proverbs 22:3[/smear:#3735f3:0]
Done for today
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,585
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Post by fearnot on Aug 29, 2020 12:00:15 GMT -5
I was thinking about how our world today, seems to me to becoming angrier almost daily..... more and more filled with angry people.
it seems like on the one hand, the angry people of today never learned how to deal with anger, as children...
and,
with the advent of social media ( computer technology)
they got to practice cruel degrading anger even more.... People can reach even way more people to yell at than ever before and being more or less anonymous they could freely post all manner of mean spirited communications.
I also get the strong impression that even many Christians have this problem, And not many appear to be working on applying these verses:
[smear:#bd0958]19 Know this, my beloved brothers: let every person be quick to hear, slow to speak, slow to anger; 20 for the anger of man does not produce the righteousness of God. James 1:19,20[/smear:#19e675:0]
I remember an old saying:
Sticks and stones can hurt my bones but names can never hurt me.
I don't really think that is true! well the first part is ( real stones can hurt)
What I am thinking is that a child brought up in a loving home, and they know they are loved and valued ( by their family and God) but, may get an occasional spanking
Is actually way better off , than a child who might have never been spanked....
but had constant and only hurtful, demeaning, hateful, degrading, unkind, non compassionate cruel words ever spoken to them.
In fact cruel words, I believe hold way more power, than a swat on the bottom.
[smear:#e619bd]Death and life are in the power of the tongue, and those who love it will eat its fruits. Proverbs 18:21[/smear:#0168dd:0]
Not many people in online chats seem to practice this verse:
[smear:#84f71a]A soft answer turns away wrath, but a harsh word stirs up anger. Proverbs 15:1[/smear:#fa6564:0]
Instead it seems to me we are becoming more and more a nation of 'hot heads"
[smear:#4280c6]A hot-tempered man stirs up strife, but he who is slow to anger quiets contention. Proverbs 15:18[/smear:#19e6b3:0]
I remember years ago, in school, we had debate clubs there would be two teams with opposite views Each side might get several times to present their case.
But if one side totally annoyed the other They did not come back and slam the character of the opposition They would be writing down facts to bolster their opinion.
Today, character assassination, using foul and cutting language going for the jugular vein are almost always the first and last words.
[smear:#59bb5c]There is one whose rash words are like sword thrusts, but the tongue of the wise brings healing. Proverbs 12:18[/smear:#e6198e:0]
I begin to wonder if many Christians even think about applying this verse ( Oh and I am totally including myself!!!!!!)
[smear:#53c48e]Gracious words are like a honeycomb, sweetness to the soul and health to the body. Proverbs 16:24[/smear:#f8dd08:0]
And do we think about this much?
[smear:#80e619]37 for by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned.” Matthew 12:37[/smear:#cb19e6:0]
These verse speak also of the power words have:
[smear:#0587f6]4 Look at the ships also: though they are so large and are driven by strong winds, they are guided by a very small rudder wherever the will of the pilot directs. 5 So also the tongue is a small member, yet it boasts of great things. How great a forest is set ablaze by such a small fire! 6 And the tongue is a fire, a world of unrighteousness. The tongue is set among our members, staining the whole body, setting on on fire the entire course of life, and set on fire by hell James 3:4-6[/smear:#fa2631:0]
We need to be cultivating and applying this verse more today than ever:
[smear:#f8a005]Refrain from anger, and forsake wrath! Fret not yourself; it tends only to evil. Psalms 37[/smear:#06b6b0:0]
Done for today
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,585
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Post by fearnot on Aug 30, 2020 9:43:19 GMT -5
Thinking about the opposite of anger in the world today:
A calm, peaceful, humble spirit.
[smear:#318ef7] First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all people, 2 for kings and all who are in high positions, that we may lead a peaceful and quiet life, godly and dignified in every way. 1 Timothy 2:1,2[/smear:#fb5082:0]
This verse got my to thinking about how even in politics something that can really really rile people up!
Those that hate those on the 'right' have those folks on the left, ever sat down and prayed that those things that disturb them about conservatives? God might change or soften their hearts.... or whatever the left's list of grievances are
and likewise, have conservatives that dislike those on the left prayed for those on the left to have their hearts softened?
However, the prayers have to be something God would be willing and would approve.
Because strange as it might seem, it reminds me that Jesus 'calmed' the raging waters and wind. He might just do the same with some people as well.
[smear:#19e6c1] 39 And he awoke and rebuked the wind and said to the sea, “Peace! Be still!” And the wind ceased, and there was a great calm. Mark 4:39[/smear:#d319e6:0]
Perhaps before we type that angry rant or yell at someone we pray for them and be still, wondering is this really what God would want?
[smear:#faa30a]“Be still, and know that I am God. I will be exalted among the nations, I will be exalted in the earth!” Psalm 46:10[/smear:#546df8:0]
Also, we need to ask ourselves is this what we would like as a reply to ourselves from someone would we appreciate someone yelling at us is this a loving Christian way to behave?
Jesus said:
[smear:#9cf97b]31 And as you wish that others would do to you, do so to them. Luke 6:31[/smear:#f747e2:0]
He also said this:
[smear:#e619a5]36 “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?” 37 And he said to him, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. 38 This is the great and first commandment. 39 And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. Matthew 22:36-39[/smear:#19d4e6:0]
Not many people like to be called disparaging names So then, why should we heap them on someone else.
I sometimes think people resort to that type of intimidation because they don't actually have all the facts but need to win, in anyway possible...
So they feel, anger, threats, unconstrained emotions may so appall, frighten, cow, and bully their opponent into retreating in fear, but they have not won them to their way of thinking.
And if the other person does not pray they are in danger of waiting for a chance to retaliate out of bitterness:
[smear:#0ce97f]15 See to it that no one fails to obtain the grace of God; that no “root of bitterness” springs up and causes trouble, and by it many become defiled; Hebrews 12:15[/smear:#a209cd:0]
Calm, seems to me, to be greatly lacking , in the world today, and much of it is because of words:
[smear:#bd5cc5]A soft answer turns away wrath, but a harsh word stirs up anger. Proverbs 15:1[/smear:#19e69e:0]
Done for today
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Post by Cindy on Aug 31, 2020 11:05:21 GMT -5
It's funny you mentioned hiding because I was going to mention that today.
I probably should have said, there are several options people ( and Christians might take if a civil war, guerrilla warfare, or anarchy continues to get worse)
Right, I understand you didn't mean to actually turn themselves in so they could die kind of how some people, use police to kill them, instead of suicide
or as you said:
"they had been taught that it was an honor to die for Jesus,
I didn't mean to imply that they all meekly and willingly walked to their deaths without in any way trying to save their life. I don't think the Lord would approve of that."
but at the time, I was kind of taking this as a cue for the scripture verses I was choosing as not to fear death:
"What's most amazing to me about how the early Christians lived and died for Christ, is that many of them 'practically' turned themselves in so that they could be killed for Christ!"
Anyway, I was going to mention hiding as another possibility.....
We know Jesus was on a 'time table' and certain spiritual and godly things had to be accomplished before going back to Heaven.
( like making a way for sinners to be eternally saved, and conquering death and the devil etc.)
So there were times when people sought to kill Him Before those things were accomplished... and so.... He often hid Himself.
[smear:#be5a3a]59 So they picked up stones to throw at him, but Jesus hid himself and went out of the temple. John 8:59[/smear:#9619e6:0]
Also
[smear:#45923e]30 So they were seeking to arrest him, but no one laid a hand on him, because his hour had not yet come. John 7:30 [/smear:#fd05d3:0]
During the tribulation believers are told to 'flee' ( I think that is like hiding oneself)
[smear:#e6a019]15 “So when you see the abomination of desolation spoken of by the prophet Daniel, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand), 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. Matthew 24:15,16[/smear:#04758f:0]
You mentioned posting guards and that might be in keeping with these verses
[smear:#e6cd19] 1 The word of the Lord came to me: 2 “Son of man, speak to your people and say to them, If I bring the sword upon a land, and the people of the land take a man from among them, and make him their watchman, 3 and if he sees the sword coming upon the land and blows the trumpet and warns the people, 4 then if anyone who hears the sound of the trumpet does not take warning, and the sword comes and takes him away, his blood shall be upon his own head. 5 He heard the sound of the trumpet and did not take warning; his blood shall be upon himself. But if he had taken warning, he would have saved his life. 6 But if the watchman sees the sword coming and does not blow the trumpet, so that the people are not warned, and the sword comes and takes any one of them, that person is taken away in his iniquity, but his blood I will require at the watchman's hand. Ezekiel 33:1-6[/smear:#e61940:0]
And there is this verse to consider even IF you have weapons they may not always be able to save you you may be out gunned on the other hand God is never outgunned:
[smear:#62cd86]“....Do not be afraid of them. Remember the Lord, who is great and awesome, and fight for your brothers, your sons, your daughters, your wives, and your homes.” Nehemiah 4:14[/smear:#fe39d9:0]
and this
[smear:#ade619]6 For not in my bow do I trust, nor can my sword save me.
7 But you have saved us from our foes and have put to shame those who hate us Psalms 44:6,7[/smear:#9619e6:0]
Plus:
[smear:#41f57b]47 and that all this assembly may know that the Lord saves not with sword and spear. For the battle is the Lord's, and he will give you into our hand.” 1 Samuel 17:47[/smear:#7004c1:0]
And perhaps the tendency to quickly resort to violence has been glorified in our culture with movies, comics, music etc etc. so that kids grow up wanting to be superman and the like. And yet God says:
[smear:#70fd0a]Do not envy a man of violence and do not choose any of his ways, Proverbs 3:31[/smear:#03f9e2:0]
But I digress, here is a final verse on hiding:
[smear:#b746db]The prudent sees danger and hides himself, but the simple go on and suffer for it. Proverbs 22:3[/smear:#3735f3:0]
Done for today
I didn't think you meant it to sound that way, but I wanted to make sure that there wouldn't be any misunderstanding if someone else read the thread. You and I are both well educated, and have continued to read and learn all of our lives. We both have a tendency to think that others who read what we write will know what we mean. But as we've both experienced (and I'm sure we'll continue to experience it at times) people don't always understand what we mean and can even totally misconstrue what we were trying to say. The only difference is that I've probably had more experience writing about scripture and having that happen, so for quite awhile now I've worked hard to avoid that. (And yet it still happens at times!)
I was thinking about how our world today, seems to me to becoming angrier almost daily..... more and more filled with angry people.
it seems like on the one hand, the angry people of today never learned how to deal with anger, as children...
and,
with the advent of social media ( computer technology)
they got to practice cruel degrading anger even more.... People can reach even way more people to yell at than ever before and being more or less anonymous they could freely post all manner of mean spirited communications.
I also get the strong impression that even many Christians have this problem, And not many appear to be working on applying these verses:
[smear:#bd0958]19 Know this, my beloved brothers: let every person be quick to hear, slow to speak, slow to anger; 20 for the anger of man does not produce the righteousness of God. James 1:19,20[/smear:#19e675:0]
I remember an old saying:
Sticks and stones can hurt my bones but names can never hurt me.
I don't really think that is true! well the first part is ( real stones can hurt)
What I am thinking is that a child brought up in a loving home, and they know they are loved and valued ( by their family and God) but, may get an occasional spanking
Is actually way better off , than a child who might have never been spanked....
but had constant and only hurtful, demeaning, hateful, degrading, unkind, non compassionate cruel words ever spoken to them.
In fact cruel words, I believe hold way more power, than a swat on the bottom.
[smear:#e619bd]Death and life are in the power of the tongue, and those who love it will eat its fruits. Proverbs 18:21[/smear:#0168dd:0]
Not many people in online chats seem to practice this verse:
[smear:#84f71a]A soft answer turns away wrath, but a harsh word stirs up anger. Proverbs 15:1[/smear:#fa6564:0]
Instead it seems to me we are becoming more and more a nation of 'hot heads"
[smear:#4280c6]A hot-tempered man stirs up strife, but he who is slow to anger quiets contention. Proverbs 15:18[/smear:#19e6b3:0]
I remember years ago, in school, we had debate clubs there would be two teams with opposite views Each side might get several times to present their case.
But if one side totally annoyed the other They did not come back and slam the character of the opposition They would be writing down facts to bolster their opinion.
Today, character assassination, using foul and cutting language going for the jugular vein are almost always the first and last words.
[smear:#59bb5c]There is one whose rash words are like sword thrusts, but the tongue of the wise brings healing. Proverbs 12:18[/smear:#e6198e:0]
I begin to wonder if many Christians even think about applying this verse ( Oh and I am totally including myself!!!!!!)
[smear:#53c48e]Gracious words are like a honeycomb, sweetness to the soul and health to the body. Proverbs 16:24[/smear:#f8dd08:0]
And do we think about this much?
[smear:#80e619]37 for by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned.” Matthew 12:37[/smear:#cb19e6:0]
These verse speak also of the power words have:
[smear:#0587f6]4 Look at the ships also: though they are so large and are driven by strong winds, they are guided by a very small rudder wherever the will of the pilot directs. 5 So also the tongue is a small member, yet it boasts of great things. How great a forest is set ablaze by such a small fire! 6 And the tongue is a fire, a world of unrighteousness. The tongue is set among our members, staining the whole body, setting on on fire the entire course of life, and set on fire by hell James 3:4-6[/smear:#fa2631:0]
We need to be cultivating and applying this verse more today than ever:
[smear:#f8a005]Refrain from anger, and forsake wrath! Fret not yourself; it tends only to evil. Psalms 37[/smear:#06b6b0:0]
Done for today
I totally and completely agree with you!!! Many Christians attack the people they're debating with (it should really be called fighting with) and their excuse for calling the people names or calling them stupid or worse is what Jesus or John the Baptist said to the Pharisees. Here's what John said and what an excerpt of what Jesus said:
“But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to where he was baptizing, he said to them: “You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the coming wrath?” (Matthew 3:7) ““Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the kingdom of heaven in men’s faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to.” (Matthew 23:13) ““Woe to you, blind guides! You say, ‘If anyone swears by the temple, it means nothing; but if anyone swears by the gold of the temple, he is bound by his oath.’ You blind fools! Which is greater: the gold, or the temple that makes the gold sacred?” (Matthew 23:16–17) The rest in this section are all very similar. Now let me point out a couple of very obvious things. First, Jesus is God and we aren't. Therefore He knows a persons heart and has said outright that we can't know what is in anothers heart, as we can't even know our own heart! Just as importantly however, note that neither of them were talking to a single individual or about a single individual. Instead they were speaking about an institution, a whole group of people. It would be like us talking about everyone in congress without singling out an individual congressman. Or like if we spoke about everyone in a particular seminary without naming individuals. In other words they were both condemning the Pharisees, Sadducees, and scribes - the people who were supposed to be teaching the people what God's Word says and how to live a life pleasing to Him. Yet both John the Baptist and Jesus treated individual's of this group with love and care. Here's a similar verse only it's Stephan speaking to this very same group of people: ““You stiff-necked people, with uncircumcised hearts and ears! You are just like your fathers: You always resist the Holy Spirit!” (Acts 7:51) This group kills Stephen, but before he dies, Stephan lovingly asks the Lord to forgive their sin. And Stephan never said this to an individual.
Let's look at another example. When Jesus was angry and cleared the temple of all the people who were selling things, (Matt 21:12–13; Mark 11:15–17; Luke 19:45–46) He did not call them names, or harm them in any way. In fact, all He said to them was: ““It is written,” he said to them, “ ‘My house will be called a house of prayer,’ but you are making it a ‘den of robbers.’”” (Matthew 21:13) The other time He did this, all He said was: “To those who sold doves he said, “Get these out of here! How dare you turn my Father’s house into a market!”” (John 2:16) Again, he was speaking to a group, but He didn't call any of them names.
To put it bluntly, Jesus, John the Baptist,Stephan, and the apostles, did not call people names or put people down or tell them how stupid they were because they didn't know what God's Word said or didn't understand what it said. In fact, when the Sadducees tried to trick Him and asked Him about who's wife a woman would be in Heaven, if she'd married a bunch of her husband's brothers, all Jesus said to them was: “Jesus replied, “You are in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God.” (Matthew 22:29) and this should cinch the matter: “But even the archangel Michael, when he was disputing with the devil about the body of Moses, did not dare to bring a slanderous accusation against him, but said, “The Lord rebuke you!”” (Jude 9)
Yet if you go to any active Christian board and read the posts in the apologetics forum you will find so called Christians insulting each other in almost every post. The longer they post to each other, the worse the insults and name calling will be. And they actually think they're "defending the faith". Instead what they're doing is shaming themselves and bringing shame on their Savior and God (if they're really saved), when we're supposed to be bringing Him glory. As you said Barbara, this also happens on Facebook and just about any place where people are supposedly defending the faith.
It's disgusting and sickening. It makes all Christians look bad, and makes our Savior look bad too. But no matter what you say to these people, they won't listen. I insisted on our old board that I would not allow it to be like that any longer and finally closed down the forum to stop it as I was determined that our board would glorify God and not shame Him. Many of the so called Christians who posted in our forum before I closed it down, spent the next years bad mouthing me on line to all their friends. They would come to Fresh Hope to see what we were talking about and what we were doing, and then they'd go back to the boards that allow people to bad mouth each other and they'd literally bad mouth me and the board and whatever we were doing at that time. They continued to do this right up to the time I closed the board. They rejoiced when they thought something went wrong on our board or when we had any kind of a problem. They predicted many more problems for us and actually hoped bad things would happen to the board and to me as a person. All they said and did was against what the Bible teaches, including: “Do not gloat when your enemy falls; when he stumbles, do not let your heart rejoice, or the LORD will see and disapprove and turn his wrath away from him.” (Proverbs 24:17–18) It hurt my feelings, but it also made me very glad I'd stopped them on Fresh Hope, because their speech most certainly did not honor God or bring Him glory. It still brought shame to Him and to all true Christians.
That felt good to get that all off my chest!
Thinking about the opposite of anger in the world today:
A calm, peaceful, humble spirit.
[smear:#318ef7] First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all people, 2 for kings and all who are in high positions, that we may lead a peaceful and quiet life, godly and dignified in every way. 1 Timothy 2:1,2[/smear:#fb5082:0]
This verse got my to thinking about how even in politics something that can really really rile people up!
Those that hate those on the 'right' have those folks on the left, ever sat down and prayed that those things that disturb them about conservatives? God might change or soften their hearts.... or whatever the left's list of grievances are
and likewise, have conservatives that dislike those on the left prayed for those on the left to have their hearts softened?
However, the prayers have to be something God would be willing and would approve.
Because strange as it might seem, it reminds me that Jesus 'calmed' the raging waters and wind. He might just do the same with some people as well.
[smear:#19e6c1] 39 And he awoke and rebuked the wind and said to the sea, “Peace! Be still!” And the wind ceased, and there was a great calm. Mark 4:39[/smear:#d319e6:0]
Perhaps before we type that angry rant or yell at someone we pray for them and be still, wondering is this really what God would want?
[smear:#faa30a]“Be still, and know that I am God. I will be exalted among the nations, I will be exalted in the earth!” Psalm 46:10[/smear:#546df8:0]
Also, we need to ask ourselves is this what we would like as a reply to ourselves from someone would we appreciate someone yelling at us is this a loving Christian way to behave?
Jesus said:
[smear:#9cf97b]31 And as you wish that others would do to you, do so to them. Luke 6:31[/smear:#f747e2:0]
He also said this:
[smear:#e619a5]36 “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?” 37 And he said to him, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. 38 This is the great and first commandment. 39 And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. Matthew 22:36-39[/smear:#19d4e6:0]
Not many people like to be called disparaging names So then, why should we heap them on someone else.
I sometimes think people resort to that type of intimidation because they don't actually have all the facts but need to win, in anyway possible...
So they feel, anger, threats, unconstrained emotions may so appall, frighten, cow, and bully their opponent into retreating in fear, but they have not won them to their way of thinking.
And if the other person does not pray they are in danger of waiting for a chance to retaliate out of bitterness:
[smear:#0ce97f]15 See to it that no one fails to obtain the grace of God; that no “root of bitterness” springs up and causes trouble, and by it many become defiled; Hebrews 12:15[/smear:#a209cd:0]
Calm, seems to me, to be greatly lacking , in the world today, and much of it is because of words:
[smear:#bd5cc5]A soft answer turns away wrath, but a harsh word stirs up anger. Proverbs 15:1[/smear:#19e69e:0]
Done for today
So very true!!! You took the words right out of my mouth it seems like they overlook these scriptures and others like them as well:
“If anyone considers himself religious and yet does not keep a tight rein on his tongue, he deceives himself and his religion is worthless.” (James 1:26)
“Likewise the tongue is a small part of the body, but it makes great boasts. Consider what a great forest is set on fire by a small spark. The tongue also is a fire, a world of evil among the parts of the body. It corrupts the whole person, sets the whole course of his life on fire, and is itself set on fire by hell.” (James 3:5–6)
“If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone.” (Romans 12:18)
The Bible even explains to us exactly what wisdom looks and sounds like, so we can know when we're on the right track with what we say or write: “But the wisdom that comes from heaven is first of all pure; then peace-loving, considerate, submissive, full of mercy and good fruit, impartial and sincere. Peacemakers who sow in peace raise a harvest of righteousness.” (James 3:17–18)
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,585
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Post by fearnot on Aug 31, 2020 11:35:02 GMT -5
All your comments are helpful and uplifting!!!
And you are right, I have not had nearly the push back you have endured online and almost zero on Fresh Hope.....
And I prefer it that way LOL
But I do feel so so sad, for what you had to go thru!!!!!
I guess Beelzebub picks on those he fears might be doing the Lord's will a bit toooo much!
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,585
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Post by fearnot on Aug 31, 2020 11:37:37 GMT -5
One thing about today's world, that has been a thorn in my side for a long time are the various games played today, board/role playing and video ones.
I am not saying role playing, board games or video games are all evil, and should never be played, but one ought perhaps, to consider, some of the things, I am thinking about.
( There are actually other similar things that could fall under this first verse but today,I am looking at games)
[smear:#e6199c] I will not set before my eyes anything that is worthless...... Psalms 101:3[/smear:#19e665:0]
People will often reply:
It is ONLY a ''GAME!!!
or
It is great for imagination, and you do 'learn" things!!!
Well, playing chicken with cars is only a game until someone gets hit or killed by a car.
And Russian roulette is also ONLY a game... until finally, the one who pulls the trigger on the gun is the time, the one bullet comes out and kills them.
Soooo there are games, that have potentially serious consequences. like the two games I just mentioned the consequences of those two games, ( and there are many others like them) could lead to serious physical injury or death.
But some games, could have serious spiritual consequences, and may open a door for spiritual deception.
One might start by asking: Does the game edify, help others, produce any 'good' for the world etc.
[smear:#fe5d0a]So then let us pursue what makes for peace and for mutual upbuilding. Romans 14:19[/smear:#4986f5:0]
Another issue is what kind of level of commitment, your time, your mind, your money etc. is spent on gaming?
[smear:#51f73a]15 Look carefully then how you walk, not as unwise but as wise, 16 making the best use of the time, because the days are evil. 17 Therefore do not be foolish, but understand what the will of the Lord is. Ephesians 5:15-17[/smear:#e619b1:0]
This is also something to consider: Everything we read, listen to, or see with our eyes is stored in our incredibly complex brains.
And sometimes, clever people, will produce movies, magazines, books,videos, you tube videos video games etc. Based on that knowledge ( of our brains storing everything) and use it , for a type of programming our minds.
The more one plays a certain game, the more it can become not only addictive, but the game can begin to determine how we will begin to look at things in the world...
Will it be God's way... or the world and the devil's way
Plus, remember our minds are already corrupted by sin.
[smear:#64da89]10 as it is written:
“None is righteous, no, not one; 11 no one understands; no one seeks for God. 12 All have turned aside; Romans 3:10,11[/smear:#c743a6:0]
Perhaps we start a game thinking:
I am just going to spend just a little time, to relax and have a few moments of fun....
and then..... I will go read the Bible.
The problem often with that is first off
We put God down Because in our minds we have determined that a game is: 'fun and relaxing' Additionally:
we did not make God our priority but rather , the 'fun' game
[smear:#df44c7]23 “All things are lawful,” but not all things are helpful. “All things are lawful,” but not all things build up. 24 Let no one seek his own good, but the good of his neighbor. 1 Corinthians 10:23,24[/smear:#19e675:0]
The second thing is the ........just for a little while frequently turns into hours!!
[smear:#fbcf08]5 Walk in wisdom toward outsiders, making the best use of the time. Colossians 4:5[/smear:#1d03f0:0]
I may add more tomorrow Done for today
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,585
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Post by fearnot on Sept 1, 2020 10:52:43 GMT -5
Like I said yesterday, I don't think all video games or playing them is evil ( though, many can be) but they could be spiritual dangerous just based on how time consuming they can be!
[smear:#84b1e4]16 making the best use of the time, because the days are evil. Ephesians 5:16[/smear:#f357df:0]
So ,I have a 13 year old grandson who is a gamer.
However, in today's world, it is often, not just about playing the game oh no.....
many gamers post their game playing on you tube...
and guess what... that is more time consuming than you might ( or maybe you do) know!
Th[smear:#e26bcf]is is what I mean, brothers: the appointed time has grown very short.......... 1 Corinthians 7:29[/smear:#06dff4:0]
let me give you a brief ( but not complete) run down of what some of that includes:
So you play the game oh... but first... you have to get your camera set up,
and while playing the game you may focus on 'voice acting' humor etc. you might play for an hour or waaaay more
Then there is editing that might take 2 or 3 hours
you have to find copyright free music to add
and I forgot....
all your drawings have to be added in
( as an artist I can tell you that takes a LOT of time)
you usually draw those before hand along with your thumbnails assets background pictures ( also by you) Characters you draw in Etc etc etc. and then upload
Did I mention time consuming?
Of course.........
you will check your likes and comments made by others in the gaming community.
[smear:#f2a405] The great day of the Lord is near, near and hastening fast;......... Zephaniah 1:14[/smear:#7556f9:0]
But that is just the 'time' element what about the potential for spiritual deception?
Well let's start with this verse:
[smear:#a4f33e]5 We destroy arguments and every lofty opinion raised against the knowledge of God, [/smear:#3af8cc:0] and take every thought captive to obey Christ, 2 Corinthians 10:5
So thinking about video games (and even other types)
I think there are very few games, where the name of Jesus is mentioned ( or perhaps , as a swear word only).
Not only that, many games ( even some of the seemingly more innocent) do have smatterings of the occult in bedded in them.
[smear:#4bf9be]36 Incline my heart to your testimonies, and not to selfish gain![/smear:#ce8af0:0] 37 Turn my eyes from looking at worthless things; [smear:#e67b19]Psalms 119[/smear:#aefb3e:0]
Even a game like Minecraft has: potions , undead, ( zombies) magic and to me , the dark figures the "endermen" are very dark and have a demonic feel to them but for those who disagree, they are 'creepy' as is the end of the game, dragon.
So that might be controversial However, lets look a little closer at things like its a great tool for imagination, teamwork, etc. etc.
However, there is this verse to consider and decide about, when thinking about various video games:
[smear:#f048c7]22 Abstain from every form of evil. 1 Thessalonians 5:22[/smear:#12deaf:0]
I would like to reflect on the idea that maybe.... there is JUST a very very very little perhaps scary, occult like, and so on in a game and it is NOT going to 'kill' anyone after all.... in a way, it just reflects reality right?
yet, we do not go search out just a little danger ( oh wait, some do) but like a toad in a pot of cold water on a stove turn the heat on just a little and it does not die but eventually the water continues to get warmer and warmer until over time the water boils and the creature is dead.
Often our conscience warns us something is a 'little' off....
then the devil scoffs and says:
come on...get real!!!!! it's just a little nothing is perfect, it's like life rolls his eyes
[smear:#70f7ae] 15 They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them Romans 2:15 [/smear:#3819e6:0]
I will try to get a bit deeper into the spiritual danger tomorrow Done for today
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Post by Cindy on Sept 1, 2020 11:14:45 GMT -5
All your comments are helpful and uplifting!!!
And you are right, I have not had nearly the push back you have endured online and almost zero on Fresh Hope.....
And I prefer it that way LOL
But I do feel so so sad, for what you had to go thru!!!!!
I guess Beelzebub picks on those he fears might be doing the Lord's will a bit toooo much! Barbara, I would never say that you've experienced less pain or less persecution then I have! I can't imagine what made you think I thought such a thing! I went back and read my posts to you and the only thing that comes remotely close to that is this:
If that's what made you think that, I'm sorry, but it's not what I said or what I meant. I meant I've probably written more posts just like this one and all the others about the Bible on the board, and therefore more people have misunderstood what I was saying then those who've misunderstood one of your posts.
Actually here's a good example because you've misunderstood me somehow, and in trying to figure out what I wrote that made you misunderstand me, I may have misunderstood you!
One thing about today's world, that has been a thorn in my side for a long time are the various games played today, board/role playing and video ones.
I am not saying role playing, board games or video games are all evil, and should never be played, but one ought perhaps, to consider, some of the things, I am thinking about.
( There are actually other similar things that could fall under this first verse but today,I am looking at games)
[smear:#e6199c] I will not set before my eyes anything that is worthless...... Psalms 101:3[/smear:#19e665:0]
People will often reply:
It is ONLY a ''GAME!!!
or
It is great for imagination, and you do 'learn" things!!!
Well, playing chicken with cars is only a game until someone gets hit or killed by a car.
And Russian roulette is also ONLY a game... until finally, the one who pulls the trigger on the gun is the time, the one bullet comes out and kills them.
Soooo there are games, that have potentially serious consequences. like the two games I just mentioned the consequences of those two games, ( and there are many others like them) could lead to serious physical injury or death.
But some games, could have serious spiritual consequences, and may open a door for spiritual deception.
One might start by asking: Does the game edify, help others, produce any 'good' for the world etc.
[smear:#fe5d0a]So then let us pursue what makes for peace and for mutual upbuilding. Romans 14:19[/smear:#4986f5:0]
Another issue is what kind of level of commitment, your time, your mind, your money etc. is spent on gaming?
[smear:#51f73a]15 Look carefully then how you walk, not as unwise but as wise, 16 making the best use of the time, because the days are evil. 17 Therefore do not be foolish, but understand what the will of the Lord is. Ephesians 5:15-17[/smear:#e619b1:0]
This is also something to consider: Everything we read, listen to, or see with our eyes is stored in our incredibly complex brains.
And sometimes, clever people, will produce movies, magazines, books,videos, you tube videos video games etc. Based on that knowledge ( of our brains storing everything) and use it , for a type of programming our minds.
The more one plays a certain game, the more it can become not only addictive, but the game can begin to determine how we will begin to look at things in the world...
Will it be God's way... or the world and the devil's way
Plus, remember our minds are already corrupted by sin.
[smear:#64da89]10 as it is written:
“None is righteous, no, not one; 11 no one understands; no one seeks for God. 12 All have turned aside; Romans 3:10,11[/smear:#c743a6:0]
Perhaps we start a game thinking:
I am just going to spend just a little time, to relax and have a few moments of fun....
and then..... I will go read the Bible.
The problem often with that is first off
We put God down Because in our minds we have determined that a game is: 'fun and relaxing' Additionally:
we did not make God our priority but rather , the 'fun' game
[smear:#df44c7]23 “All things are lawful,” but not all things are helpful. “All things are lawful,” but not all things build up. 24 Let no one seek his own good, but the good of his neighbor. 1 Corinthians 10:23,24[/smear:#19e675:0]
The second thing is the ........just for a little while frequently turns into hours!!
[smear:#fbcf08]5 Walk in wisdom toward outsiders, making the best use of the time. Colossians 4:5[/smear:#1d03f0:0]
I may add more tomorrow Done for today
Great job!
“I will not set before my eyes anything that is worthless. I hate the work of those who fall away; it shall not cling to me.” (Psalm 101:3)
Here's an interesting side note for you about Psalm 101:3. The word "worthless" is translated "wicked" in many versions or "vile" in many others. But I've found that in many cases when the word "worthless" is used, it's referring to something that can be defined as to strongly detest something on the basis that it is abominable. It is possible that in Re 21:8 vile refers to sexual perverts. It translates as “Belial”, “wicked”, “ungodly”, “evil”, and "worthless". Keep in mind that “Belial” is a synonym for Satan. Another Bible dictionary says Belial is also personified wickedness. In the OT, the expression “son” or “man” “of Belial” means simply a worthless, lawless person (Judg. 19:22; 20:13; 1 Sam. 1:16; 2:12). It's also used as a proper name in a few OT verses. Another verse where "worthless" means this same thing is: “Turn my heart toward your statutes and not toward selfish gain. Turn my eyes away from worthless things; preserve my life according to your word.” (Psalm 119:36–37) And here's a NT verse with this same word and speaking of when Jesus returns for the saved at the rapture and we see who is really saved and who isn't: “And throw that worthless servant outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” (Matthew 25:30) Another one is this one: “All have turned away, they have together become worthless; there is no one who does good, not even one.”” (Romans 3:12) So now, whenever you see the word "worthless" you'll know just how worthless it is!
Yes, we hear "it's just a game!" or "it's just a fiction book", or "it's just a movie" or "it's not real, it's just pretend!" frequently from people who are supposed to be Christians. They shake their heads and think people like us are crazy, that we take the Bible way too seriously, and they just don't get it at all. (mainly because they don't want to understand it.) But the good Lord commands us to guard our hearts. The word "hearts" in the original language includes our thoughts, and everything we would include in the word "mind". So we can legitimately say that God commands us to guard our minds. He doesn't tell us that just once, but He frequently tells us what we're to allow into our thoughts and memories and what we are to exclude. He does this all through both the old and new testaments, so it's obviously of major importance.
The reason the people who give us these excuses think the way they do is because God isn't first in their lives. They have many other things that come before Him. (Although you could probably cover many of them under the word, "self".) They have disobeyed Jesus also by not counting the cost of salvation (Luke 14:28–32) before they decided they wanted to be saved. If they ever did decide that - many probably just go to church and consider themselves "Christians" because that's what their parents told them and what they've done since they were children. It's sad to see, but if they are really saved, eventually they'll learn that Jesus means what He says and expects us to obey Him, and hopefully they'll begin to guard their minds before He comes to get us.
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,585
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Post by fearnot on Sept 1, 2020 11:39:11 GMT -5
Oh no Cindy I was not even in the very least tiny bit upset.... I actually honest and truly meant that I have not had nearly ( or maybe one percent) the push back posting on FB
nothing like what you have experienced!!! I really think that!! Then again.... I do not have a 'site' so there is no way, I would have so many 'Christians' saying or posting such cruel things
Oh I have had a few misunderstanding on other sites with folks I had one recently posting on facebook and strangely, it was all about a Bible verse
So I have had just a very very few of of those.
but I honestly think you have been thru the wringer and I feel so bad about Christians being so mean!!!
No if I had felt badly and after praying about it:
I would probably try to say ( now not like in years past when I would just walk away) that I did not understand.... if you meant
fill in the space......
and then say because if so, ....
it hurt my 'feelings'
But no, I was thinking about all the people on your old site that went on to say mean things and yet were 'Christians'
Even IF they thought they were right and you were wrong and you were mean etc.
it boggled my mind that not one ( or so it seems to me.....)
did not pray about it
Then even IF they still thought they were right
that they did not forgive you anyway LOL and still love you and tell you that!!!
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,585
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Post by fearnot on Sept 1, 2020 11:55:09 GMT -5
Of course....today's post is waaaay up above....like 2 or 3 posts or 4 LOL I know you know to look for it :)
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,585
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Post by fearnot on Sept 2, 2020 11:08:42 GMT -5
In general most gamers will roll their eyes and scoff that any Christian saying, there 'might be spiritual dangers' in any video game
They claim it is looking for devil boogie man in the closet... saying that about video games... like.... come on!!!
For example they might suggest, if the creative Minecraft is a bit scary, then just have your child play in the 'peaceful' mode
and how long before, your child's friends, will try to encourage him or her concerning the more exciting other more 'scary' modes?
Anyway, here is an interesting verse to consider: [smear:#e64a19] Therefore go out from their midst, and be separate from them, says the Lord,[/smear:#19e61b:0]
[smear:#b919e6]and touch no unclean thing; then I will welcome you, 2 Corinthians 6:17[/smear:#19e6b3:0]
I am sure some might say:
but videos games are not 'unclean' things... that is about pigs and dead bodies, blood and the like.
Yes, but there is also the idea that Bible verses can also have principles that are applicable beyond just the immediate day or that time.
Minecraft is 'creative' and the devil is very subtle.
How would those to concepts go together?
One could say, that Minecraft mimics the 'real' world.
You can work hard ( mining etc etc or use things like potions) , in order to build a home get animals, grow plants for food, have neighbors to trade with etc.
And tho, having those worldly things are not in themselves evil...
There is a spiritual danger in the 'real' world of getting so caught up in providing those items.
[smear:#e619b9]15 Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16 For all that is in the world— the desires of the flesh and the desires of the eyes and pride of life— is not from the Father but is from the world. 17 And the world is passing away along with its desires, but whoever does the will of God abides forever. 1 John 2:15-17[/smear:#08c7c5:0]
I know.... a dreaded DO NOT!
The question tho, is: Is it absolutely true?
And yes, children throughout history have used their imaginations,
However, that is not ALWAYS a good thing.
Sometimes it is and often it is not.... even if it's children 'playing', they are the king of their kingdom.
(I first learned this verse in JKV, I still like this version of this verse).
[smear:#d80721]5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God,
and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ; 2 Corinthians 10:5[/smear:#9619e6:0]
I looked at how time consuming gaming is and now, I am looking at 'small ' (?) spiritual dangers.
For today I am just looking at Minecraft considered by many to be a harmless 'safe' game for kids.
However, let it be known ( unless I am mistaken?) There is no mention of God, Jesus, sin, salvation, the Bible etc. etc.
Yet, the child can be the 'Creator'
He or she can Create their 'own' world. However to me, that could be a small corrupted spiritual seed. I suppose it does not have to be
Nevertheless, I see a potential danger, in seeing yourself as the Creator of your own world.
Certainly mankind has since they have been kicked out of the Garden of Eden, attempted to create the World according to the way they want it!
[smear:#19e684] 6 And the Lord said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do. Genesis 11:6[/smear:#e619ab:0]
Here is another subtle thing that is found in many video games
if you die you can come back to life..... What is the subtle religious seed in that? Think 'reincarnation'
It is NOT Resurrection, because Jesus is not in the game. In some games you can even come back as an animal.... usually by magic of some sort.... and in some role playing games etc. you can eventually 'evolve' into a 'god'.
[smear:#e66319]21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful[/smear:#289201:0]; [smear:#d60af7]but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Romans 1:21[/smear:#fc6169:0]
Some may argue these are silly notions, just a GAME!
But spiritual deception does not often come as a big hammer from the sky so every can see and know it is deception...
After all, look at how 'almost innocently' Satan deceived Adam and Eve....
just take a 'little' bite.... nothing big and scary!
There is a spiritual battle going on for the souls of mankind betwwen God and Beelzebub (aka Satan, the devil, Lucifer etc.)
and the mind is a primary ground for this battle of the mind of mankind.
The enemy ( the devil) has always been devious, and crafty
Just a game, just the fruit of 'knowledge of good and EVIL.
The knowledge of good and EVIL brought in sin and death
[smear:#fcc005]17 but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.” Genesis 2:17[/smear:#e61951:0]
But game playing?
It does change, even the structure of our brains and can rewire our brains...
Thus one could list some 'good' aspects of this changing of our brains via video games like: improved visuospatial skills also improvements in several types of attention, such as, sustained attention or selective attention.
Why does this seem kind of familiar to me it kind of reminds me of the knowledge of Good....
Oh but wait...... there is also a 2 part To that verse
[smear:#fcc005]17 but of the tree of the knowledge of good .....
and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.” Genesis 2:17[/smear:#e61951:0]
"According to a study from the University of Utah (U of U) School of Medicine and Chung-Ang University in South Korea,..... They found that the brains of compulsive gamers are wired differently than the brains of their peers" www.brainandlife.org/articles/how-do-video-games-affect-the-developing-brains-of-children/
Which seems to imply addiction for one and.... who or what is in control?
And this from Brain and Life article:
"At age 17, Anthony Rosner of London, England, was a hero in the World of Warcraft online gaming community.
He built empires, led raids, and submerged himself in a fantasy world that seemingly fulfilled his every need.
Meanwhile, his real life was virtually nonexistent. He neglected his schoolwork, relationships, health, even his hygiene"
www.brainandlife.org/articles/how-do-video-games-affect-the-developing-brains-of-children/
[smear:#34f908]24 But they did not obey or incline their ear, but walked in their own counsels and the stubbornness of their evil hearts, and went backward and not forward. Jeremiah 7:24[/smear:#e61996:0]
So games CAN enhance certain parts of the brain but this also:
"Researchers in China, for example, performed magnetic resonance imaging (MRI) studies on the brains of 18 college students who spent an average of 10 hours a day online, primarily playing games like World of Warcraft. Compared with a control group who spent less than two hours a day online, gamers had less gray matter (the thinking part of the brain). www.brainandlife.org/articles/how-do-video-games-affect-the-developing-brains-of-children/
Done for today
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anna
Trials
Posts: 1,861
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Post by anna on Sept 2, 2020 12:07:04 GMT -5
I especially like the scripture from 1 John 2:17 that the world will pass away along with it's desires. I can see that happening. To do the will of God one will abide forever. Reminds me that we own nothing, everything around us is temporary and only love in the heart will last forever.
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,585
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Post by fearnot on Sept 2, 2020 13:37:37 GMT -5
I totally agree Anna!
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Post by Cindy on Sept 3, 2020 9:41:20 GMT -5
Like I said yesterday, I don't think all video games or playing them is evil ( though, many can be) but they could be spiritual dangerous just based on how time consuming they can be!
[smear:#84b1e4]16 making the best use of the time, because the days are evil. Ephesians 5:16[/smear:#f357df:0]
So ,I have a 13 year old grandson who is a gamer.
However, in today's world, it is often, not just about playing the game oh no.....
many gamers post their game playing on you tube...
and guess what... that is more time consuming than you might ( or maybe you do) know!
Th[smear:#e26bcf]is is what I mean, brothers: the appointed time has grown very short.......... 1 Corinthians 7:29[/smear:#06dff4:0]
let me give you a brief ( but not complete) run down of what some of that includes:
So you play the game oh... but first... you have to get your camera set up,
and while playing the game you may focus on 'voice acting' humor etc. you might play for an hour or waaaay more
Then there is editing that might take 2 or 3 hours
you have to find copyright free music to add
and I forgot....
all your drawings have to be added in
( as an artist I can tell you that takes a LOT of time)
you usually draw those before hand along with your thumbnails assets background pictures ( also by you) Characters you draw in Etc etc etc. and then upload
Did I mention time consuming?
Of course.........
you will check your likes and comments made by others in the gaming community.
[smear:#f2a405] The great day of the Lord is near, near and hastening fast;......... Zephaniah 1:14[/smear:#7556f9:0]
But that is just the 'time' element what about the potential for spiritual deception?
Well let's start with this verse:
[smear:#a4f33e]5 We destroy arguments and every lofty opinion raised against the knowledge of God, [/smear:#3af8cc:0] and take every thought captive to obey Christ, 2 Corinthians 10:5
So thinking about video games (and even other types)
I think there are very few games, where the name of Jesus is mentioned ( or perhaps , as a swear word only).
Not only that, many games ( even some of the seemingly more innocent) do have smatterings of the occult in bedded in them.
[smear:#4bf9be]36 Incline my heart to your testimonies, and not to selfish gain![/smear:#ce8af0:0] 37 Turn my eyes from looking at worthless things; [smear:#e67b19]Psalms 119[/smear:#aefb3e:0]
Even a game like Minecraft has: potions , undead, ( zombies) magic and to me , the dark figures the "endermen" are very dark and have a demonic feel to them but for those who disagree, they are 'creepy' as is the end of the game, dragon.
So that might be controversial However, lets look a little closer at things like its a great tool for imagination, teamwork, etc. etc.
However, there is this verse to consider and decide about, when thinking about various video games:
[smear:#f048c7]22 Abstain from every form of evil. 1 Thessalonians 5:22[/smear:#12deaf:0]
I would like to reflect on the idea that maybe.... there is JUST a very very very little perhaps scary, occult like, and so on in a game and it is NOT going to 'kill' anyone after all.... in a way, it just reflects reality right?
yet, we do not go search out just a little danger ( oh wait, some do) but like a toad in a pot of cold water on a stove turn the heat on just a little and it does not die but eventually the water continues to get warmer and warmer until over time the water boils and the creature is dead.
Often our conscience warns us something is a 'little' off....
then the devil scoffs and says:
come on...get real!!!!! it's just a little nothing is perfect, it's like life rolls his eyes
[smear:#70f7ae] 15 They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them Romans 2:15 [/smear:#3819e6:0]
I will try to get a bit deeper into the spiritual danger tomorrow Done for today
What you wrote reminds me of the story about the kids who wanted to go see a "R" rated movie, but their Dad kept saying no. Of course that made them angry and they kept saying, "but everyone else is going!" and "there's only a little bit of sex and swearing in it". So while they were at school the next day, the dad made up a batch of brownies for them. When they got home and saw the brownies, they were excited and wanted one right away. Before they touched them though, the Dad said, wait till I tell you how I made them before you eat one. So he explained how much of each ingredient he used to make them, and of course the kids were soon getting tired of hearing it, but he quickly came to the last ingredient, and said, "then I added just a tablespoon of dog pooh to the entire batch. I'm sure you'll never even taste it!" As soon as he said that, the kids dropped the brownies and ran to the kitchen sink to wash their hands. The kids got the point and finally understood that even a little bit will harm them whether they realize it at the time or not.
Oh no Cindy I was not even in the very least tiny bit upset.... I actually honest and truly meant that I have not had nearly ( or maybe one percent) the push back posting on FB
nothing like what you have experienced!!! I really think that!! Then again.... I do not have a 'site' so there is no way, I would have so many 'Christians' saying or posting such cruel things
Oh I have had a few misunderstanding on other sites with folks I had one recently posting on facebook and strangely, it was all about a Bible verse
So I have had just a very very few of of those.
but I honestly think you have been thru the wringer and I feel so bad about Christians being so mean!!!
No if I had felt badly and after praying about it:
I would probably try to say ( now not like in years past when I would just walk away) that I did not understand.... if you meant
fill in the space......
and then say because if so, ....
it hurt my 'feelings'
But no, I was thinking about all the people on your old site that went on to say mean things and yet were 'Christians'
Even IF they thought they were right and you were wrong and you were mean etc.
it boggled my mind that not one ( or so it seems to me.....)
did not pray about it
Then even IF they still thought they were right
that they did not forgive you anyway LOL and still love you and tell you that!!! That's just it, although they of course called themselves Christians, they weren't really saved. If they were, they wouldn't have said or done the things they did. I say that based on how Jesus told us to judge if someone was saved...by looking at the fruit of their online life. It's kind of funny too, because after facebook became so important to many people that they were posting there and on Fresh Hope, I often checked their face book profiles to determine whether the person who wanted to become a member of Fresh Hope was really a Christian or not. What I found there, made me start checking current members facebook pages and I was shocked by what I found. People who were loving and kind on Fresh Hope, were swearing, and acting hateful to others on Facebook! In fact, it was because I'd checked out a persons facebook page that I discovered they were lying to us on Fresh Hope to try and get people to send them money. Thankfully I was able to ban them before anyone got taken in by their scam. Of course....today's post is waaaay up above....like 2 or 3 posts or 4 LOL I know you know to look for it :)
In general most gamers will roll their eyes and scoff that any Christian saying, there 'might be spiritual dangers' in any video game
They claim it is looking for devil boogie man in the closet... saying that about video games... like.... come on!!!
For example they might suggest, if the creative Minecraft is a bit scary, then just have your child play in the 'peaceful' mode
and how long before, your child's friends, will try to encourage him or her concerning the more exciting other more 'scary' modes?
Anyway, here is an interesting verse to consider: [smear:#e64a19] Therefore go out from their midst, and be separate from them, says the Lord,[/smear:#19e61b:0]
[smear:#b919e6]and touch no unclean thing; then I will welcome you, 2 Corinthians 6:17[/smear:#19e6b3:0]
I am sure some might say:
but videos games are not 'unclean' things... that is about pigs and dead bodies, blood and the like.
Yes, but there is also the idea that Bible verses can also have principles that are applicable beyond just the immediate day or that time.
Minecraft is 'creative' and the devil is very subtle.
How would those to concepts go together?
One could say, that Minecraft mimics the 'real' world.
You can work hard ( mining etc etc or use things like potions) , in order to build a home get animals, grow plants for food, have neighbors to trade with etc.
And tho, having those worldly things are not in themselves evil...
There is a spiritual danger in the 'real' world of getting so caught up in providing those items.
[smear:#e619b9]15 Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16 For all that is in the world— the desires of the flesh and the desires of the eyes and pride of life— is not from the Father but is from the world. 17 And the world is passing away along with its desires, but whoever does the will of God abides forever. 1 John 2:15-17[/smear:#08c7c5:0]
I know.... a dreaded DO NOT!
The question tho, is: Is it absolutely true?
And yes, children throughout history have used their imaginations,
However, that is not ALWAYS a good thing.
Sometimes it is and often it is not.... even if it's children 'playing', they are the king of their kingdom.
(I first learned this verse in JKV, I still like this version of this verse).
[smear:#d80721]5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God,
and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ; 2 Corinthians 10:5[/smear:#9619e6:0]
I looked at how time consuming gaming is and now, I am looking at 'small ' (?) spiritual dangers.
For today I am just looking at Minecraft considered by many to be a harmless 'safe' game for kids.
However, let it be known ( unless I am mistaken?) There is no mention of God, Jesus, sin, salvation, the Bible etc. etc.
Yet, the child can be the 'Creator'
He or she can Create their 'own' world. However to me, that could be a small corrupted spiritual seed. I suppose it does not have to be
Nevertheless, I see a potential danger, in seeing yourself as the Creator of your own world.
Certainly mankind has since they have been kicked out of the Garden of Eden, attempted to create the World according to the way they want it!
[smear:#19e684] 6 And the Lord said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do. Genesis 11:6[/smear:#e619ab:0]
Here is another subtle thing that is found in many video games
if you die you can come back to life..... What is the subtle religious seed in that? Think 'reincarnation'
It is NOT Resurrection, because Jesus is not in the game. In some games you can even come back as an animal.... usually by magic of some sort.... and in some role playing games etc. you can eventually 'evolve' into a 'god'.
[smear:#e66319]21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful[/smear:#289201:0]; [smear:#d60af7]but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Romans 1:21[/smear:#fc6169:0]
Some may argue these are silly notions, just a GAME!
But spiritual deception does not often come as a big hammer from the sky so every can see and know it is deception...
After all, look at how 'almost innocently' Satan deceived Adam and Eve....
just take a 'little' bite.... nothing big and scary!
There is a spiritual battle going on for the souls of mankind betwwen God and Beelzebub (aka Satan, the devil, Lucifer etc.)
and the mind is a primary ground for this battle of the mind of mankind.
The enemy ( the devil) has always been devious, and crafty
Just a game, just the fruit of 'knowledge of good and EVIL.
The knowledge of good and EVIL brought in sin and death
[smear:#fcc005]17 but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.” Genesis 2:17[/smear:#e61951:0]
But game playing?
It does change, even the structure of our brains and can rewire our brains...
Thus one could list some 'good' aspects of this changing of our brains via video games like: improved visuospatial skills also improvements in several types of attention, such as, sustained attention or selective attention.
Why does this seem kind of familiar to me it kind of reminds me of the knowledge of Good....
Oh but wait...... there is also a 2 part To that verse
[smear:#fcc005]17 but of the tree of the knowledge of good .....
and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.” Genesis 2:17[/smear:#e61951:0]
"According to a study from the University of Utah (U of U) School of Medicine and Chung-Ang University in South Korea,..... They found that the brains of compulsive gamers are wired differently than the brains of their peers"
Which seems to imply addiction for one and.... who or what is in control?
And this from Brain and Life article:
"At age 17, Anthony Rosner of London, England, was a hero in the World of Warcraft online gaming community.
He built empires, led raids, and submerged himself in a fantasy world that seemingly fulfilled his every need.
Meanwhile, his real life was virtually nonexistent. He neglected his schoolwork, relationships, health, even his hygiene"
[smear:#34f908]24 But they did not obey or incline their ear, but walked in their own counsels and the stubbornness of their evil hearts, and went backward and not forward. Jeremiah 7:24[/smear:#e61996:0]
So games CAN enhance certain parts of the brain but this also:
"Researchers in China, for example, performed magnetic resonance imaging (MRI) studies on the brains of 18 college students who spent an average of 10 hours a day online, primarily playing games like World of Warcraft. Compared with a control group who spent less than two hours a day online, gamers had less gray matter (the thinking part of the brain).
Done for today
Good one! And everything you've said about playing games can also be said about the books people read, the TV shows and movies they watch, the music they listen to, what they read or watch on line, and even what they see on their facebook page (what their friends and family share with them).
There's one problem with what you said at the end when you quoted an article. You MUST include a link back to the article you're quoting each and every time you post something and include even a small portion of an article. So please, find the article again, copy the url (address) and then edit your post and paste in in after the quote, ok? Thanks hon!
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,585
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Post by fearnot on Sept 3, 2020 10:23:49 GMT -5
Aha I did forget but put the links in :)
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,585
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Post by fearnot on Sept 3, 2020 10:56:02 GMT -5
I will try to finish up about video gaming entertainment today, but it might run into tomorrow.... (yep....tomorrow)
I mentioned the so called potential 'positives 'to the brain that playing video games seem to have via MRI studies and the like.
However, while there are about 3 or 4 of those 'positives'.... there is also the fact, that thru MRI etc. they show a lessening of the 'grey' matter ( or the 'thinking' part of the brain). hhttps://www.brainandlife.org/articles/how-do-video-games-affect-the-developing-brains-of-children/
There is also the release of dopamine similar to stimulant drugs like amphetamine and it addictive capability.
Still some experts say this: "It can feed information to the brain in a way that maximizes learning" www.brainandlife.org/articles/how-do-video-games-affect-the-developing-brains-of-children/
But what exactly.....is being learned?
And to me this is not exactly a positive statement:
"It's exactly the same reward structure as a slot machine," says Dr. Greenfield" www.brainandlife.org/articles/how-do-video-games-affect-the-developing-brains-of-children/
(I could go on, but I will give one more quote from brain life ( it has the MRI's you can look at also)
"Young adult males who played a violent video game extensively for 2 weeks had lower activity in important brain areas while attempting to control behavior, compared to those who played no video games". www.brainandlife.org/articles/how-do-video-games-affect-the-developing-brains-of-children/
I don't think every child that plays video games will become addicted ( tho, most children I know can and in some cases do spend 6-8 hours or longer, playing)
Nor, will they all become more aggressive and yes, there is plenty of violence in the real world that affects them also!!!!
However, I don't think many video games fit these qualifications:
8[smear:#4bb56b] Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is commendable, if there is any excellence, if there is anything worthy of praise, think about these things. Philippians 4:8[/smear:#bd3ec7:0]
It's sad to me, that such a list, for many, seems booooring!!!
I read somewhere a looooong time ago and I cannot remember where
that watching violence on TV, movies, and ( I am pretty certain video games)
that your eyes/brain cannot really discern that it is not real.
Yes, one one level you are aware you are playing a 'game',
However, there is also another level that your eyes says it sees danger and your brain reacts accordingly..... and thus this is possible the
"....... brain and psyche become overstimulated and excited — on fire! .... nervous system shifts into high gear
(and for video games)
strategizing, surviving, accumulating weapons, and defending his turf. His heart rate increases from 80 to over 100 beats per minute, and his blood pressure rises from a normal 90/60 to 140/90 — www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/mental-wealth/201609/is-your-childs-brain-video-games
Not exactly:
[smear:#19e65c]18 If possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all. Romans 12:18[/smear:#e63c19:0]
I have got to wonder what effect on one's health, being overstimulated daily, for long periods of time will perhaps, soon, start showing up in teens or young adults being under constant stress of war?
Real life soldiers often suffer PTSD what about children?
It seems to me that the brain and body, on 'some level' is convinced it's in a 'real' war and real danger
( which it now occurs to me , why my grandson has always jumped, jumped, jumped while playing video games he is in a simulated 'war' and his body is reacting correctly, to the danger it thinks is happening).
But the 'little' spiritual deception here is: you, and you alone...
are in charge
of fighting off the dangers ( be they wizards, zombies, skeletons etc).
But you do not have God's help in that situation
[smear:#2eb1f4]8 It is the Lord who goes before you. He will be with you; he will not leave you or forsake you. Do not fear or be dismayed.” Deuteronomy 31:8[/smear:#cb19e6:0]
Someone would have to be a fool not to react on some level with fear to a 'war'. Christians soldiers in real life, often pray tho they may die, they know they are not alone. But very young children are playing war with no help or comfort.
Joshua, in the Bible, was a man, in a great war Still this grown man, had this comfort from God:
[smear:#0ba8b2]5 No man shall be able to stand before you all the days of your life. Just as I was with Moses, so I will be with you. I will not leave you or forsake you. Joshua 1:5[/smear:#e6197e:0]
Well, onto more potential 'spiritual' deception
Many video games have magic in them. Magic is a way a human tries to manipulate his surroundings, to get what he or she wants
Whereas, Christians, know God is in control, but they can pray, and ask God for help etc.
But another part of 'magic' is spells and there are also spells in many games and again spells, put you in charge
This reminds me of Satan telling Adam and Eve, that:
[smear:#0d9ba7]5 For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, .... Genesis 3:5[/smear:#7020b7:0]
It seems to me, video games can feed this desire from way back to the Garden of Eden to be in charge....
and not only that, but to be your own god of your own created little world.
Done for today
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,585
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Post by fearnot on Sept 3, 2020 11:34:41 GMT -5
Oh I agree, whatever we listen to,read,watch etc. is going to have either a godly effect or not...it will be worldly at best ( and that is NOT a good thing)..... but often is worse.
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