fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,471
|
Post by fearnot on Dec 12, 2019 12:35:44 GMT -5
Edited to add: All are welcome to join us at any time!
End Times
This covers many different issues. I think a lot of people automatically think of Revelation.....and then, say, oh its too allegorical and filled with symbolism that no one can understand ( it's either to deep, too hard, too mysterious, no one can agree on , too confusing etc.)
Well firstly end times in the Bible is more than just the book of Revelation ( tho it is certainly one book covering the end times), there are many books that cover portions of end times ( like 2 Peter Chapter 3), and end times events are even covered in the Old Testament.
But secondly, God did not include Revelation in the Bible for people to never read because it's unable to understand...that would be silly, and we do not have a silly God. God is not a God of 'confusion'!!
I would like to look at all the Biblical prophesies and aspects of the end times...
Are we truly seeing the beginning of various signs ( wars and rumors of wars, plagues, increase in natural disasters, attacks on Israel, the character of humans growing more evil, less and less moral etc etc etc.).
For example people might say, well people have always been sinners and thus their moral compasses have often been bad to evil.....true enough ( just look at the time of Noah).
But, one thing I will offer as a quick example that I see that is different... is it is now almost uniformly throughout the whole world, many things against God is be taught to children 8 hours every day in school..... this to me is an increase, like never before.... because Yes, in the whole past of human history, mankind's sins have been horrific but to my knowledge, they were never taught, throughout the world, as education, and considered right, true, proper, righteous, etc.
Because this is such a vast subject I will start with the word: Eschatology Which simply means: the study or what the Bible ( therefore God) says is going to happen in the end times.
One thing I would like to mention ( that scoffers and skeptics often bring up) is how many Christians seem to sound like chicken little about any little thing that goes on as a 'sign' of the end. I agree, some Christians may indeed seem that way ... but the Bible speaks of end times and makes a comparison to giving birth to a baby. At first the birthing pains are pretty mild and spaced far apart....
However, this does not mean, it is not the beginning.... So Christian that have been looking for centuries even.... are not really so off their rockers while unbelievers might say, these things have always been.... it is the combination of all the signs, the slow but ever increasing intensity, etc.
More important and overlooked, is that believers are also looking for things that have never happened before like:
a nation and a people coming back to their land after thousands of years ( the Jews are back in Israel.....this has never happened before in the history of the world.....once a people are taken out of their land and brought to a new, they become assimilated, eventually adopting the ways and customs of the new country, and never go back in mass to regain their country.), the Ezekiel war against Israel war where God Himself will protect them, also the rapture has never happened before in history, the Jewish temple rebuilt, The 144,000 thousand, the anti-Christ ( a true one world leader...there have been many wanna be's) the mark of the beast the tribulation, the battle of Armageddon the 2nd coming of Jesus, and so on.
One verse that tells us this subject matter is not to make us fear, be confused, discouraged etc. is :
1[smear:#89196f]3 But we do not want you to be uninformed, brothers, about those who are asleep, that you may not grieve as others do who have no hope. 14 For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, through Jesus, God will bring with him those who have fallen asleep. 15 For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.17 Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord.[/smear:#219038:1] 18 Therefore encourage one another with these words. 1 Thessalonians 4:13–18
I am going to need your organized mind to look at these things in order :)
|
|
fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,471
|
Post by fearnot on Dec 13, 2019 10:31:38 GMT -5
I have to go to yearly 2 apt check up today.....sooooo even tho I really need your input to organize this topic ( and we are probably writing at the same time haha)
I need to get ready to go etc.
Sooooo I will post without you input today.
|
|
fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,471
|
Post by fearnot on Dec 13, 2019 11:25:25 GMT -5
I will start with this quote from Jesus:
Signs of the End of the Age
[smear:#087271] 4 And Jesus answered them, “See that no one leads you astray. 5 For many will come in my name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and they will lead many astray. 6 And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not alarmed, for this must take place, but the end is not yet. 7 For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8 All these are but the beginning of the birth pains. 9 “Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and put you to death, and you will be hated by all nations for my name's sake. 10 And then many will fall away and betray one another and hate one another. 11 And many false prophets will arise and lead many astray. 12 And because lawlessness will be increased, the love of many will grow cold. 13 But the one who endures to the end will be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be proclaimed throughout the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.
Matthew 24: 4-14[/smear:#e64c19:0]
I think if Jesus saw fit to discuss end times, surely we ought to look at it! The first thing I notice is Jesus says: For 'us' ....Not a pope, or some brilliant intellectual.....to be the ones to study this.... rather Jesus says for us not to be led astray....
He clearly seems to think, the average person can understand these things.... and yet, we do need to really really study His Word ( the Bible) on this so as not to be lead astray.
I think the first thing we need to do, is to be sure to pray before we read scripture ( on any issue)
I still forget to do so sometimes.....but even when I do, I soon find myself praying as I read but I want to make it a habit, to always always pray .....first.
I will do so right now!
One of the first things.... which may seem obvious is.... there will be an 'end time This is not some conspiracy theory, or fairy tale.
Strangely, it seems , that even some unbelievers, have a sense of this truth when they worry about nuclear war, global warming/climate change (or whatever they call it now) etc. etc.
Jesus seems to give some characteristics/signs that will grow in intensity that will point to end. It is true that these are somewhat 'general', in that these have occurred throughout history, the difference will be they shall greatly increase in number, size, magnitude, escalating etc. and they are liken to birth pains.....
which as I mentioned yesterday, start off fairly mild, with a lot of time in between..... but that does not negate that they are nevertheless.... pains ( some can also be very strong even, but then settle back to more mild ones)
nor does it negate that a baby is on its way So it is with the end times
The end times is not just one thing that happens all at once And there will be instead of these more general signs...the 'beginning' of sorrows I do not think these signs are what will be the 7 year tribulation.... tho some things like a super super earthquake will happen ( both at the beginning and end.... well I will have check that to be certain about super earthquakes in the tribulation
Which reminds me....might it be may people don't want to touch the end times is because it means spending much more time in the Bible studying and they already find it 'hard' to find time ( over 5 mins) so in that case it really really is hard and confusing.....?
I started thinking that besides spiritual deception, there is a whole plethora of deceptions....
Was there ever a time in history where people actually believed there are over 100 different sexes?
Another thing I have been noticing a big increase in is UFO's.... Even if 95% can be explained......I actually think some are in fact 'aliens'...okay NOT really Aliens as in ET's of the usual kind but demons/fallen angels ( and I have some theories and/or speculations as to why this is increasing.
Also, I am seeing much deception in Governments
Science so called ( like global warming, now its climate change but I just saw where they want to change that to a more dire sounding words) Not to mention, evolution as a 'fact'.....not!
Technology has allowed for a lot a lot of deceptions..... I have seen a few videos on 'famous' you tubers.....who have been caught being NOTHING like they have been presenting themselves ( via filters to make a 50 year old appear to be a 20 year old, a white appear to be black etc etc etc.)
and many many other deceptions
Anyway, there are some very 'specific' events ( besides these somewhat 'general") which we can look at in the verses that follow, and will be posted later
( not to mention all sorts of other verses in scripture throughout the Bible)
However you ( Cindy) think is a more logical organized way.
Jesus speaks of False Messiahs coming in His name even....which maybe we should look at tomorrow or not yet...depending on what you think?
|
|
fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,471
|
Post by fearnot on Dec 14, 2019 14:05:43 GMT -5
The accusation is often , that Christians who talk or study end times, are alarmists and stir up great fear...not to mention it is too divisive! They also lament who can really really know the correct interpretation? To say this tho, is to say, God made this too difficult, too confusing, and so on. It may be difficult, but NOT impossible....it may require more time spent in the Word, more prayer, but God included it for our benefit.
Furthermore, some believers say, they ought to be spreading the gospel instead of trying to figure out this murky end times stuff. Plus, both believers and unbelievers will point out, we are all still here.....and things continue to go on as they ever have.
But Jesus made it clear that the end would include a long period of time when He said this:
[smear:#109186]"See that you are not alarmed, for this must take place, but the end is not yet. " and also "All these are but the beginning of the birth pains."[/smear:#e63a19:1]
The signs He gave were not saying, these things are the end.... but rather they are the 'beginning'.... the beginning, not unlike, the beginning, of birth pains......
The end of things as we know it, will be the tribulation ( tho believers who are raptured first....before the tribulation begins will not go thru the tribulation)
After those 7 years of tribulation, Jesus will physically return, and begin His 1000 year reign...... life will no longer be like what we have had (up to this day even).
Also, who is to say, a believer cannot encourage hope with talking, writing and studying end times and also spread the gospel?
So back to Jesus saying:
[smear:#b01275]"5 For many will come in my name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and they will lead many astray."[/smear:#4819e6:1]
There are already those who have said that they are Jesus, and there will be many more to come, but the ultimate one will be the Antichrist.
As an aside John MacArthur pointed out that this question concerning the end times was the longest answer Jesus gave to a question.....so that right there is a hint at why it is important.
Jesus tells us not to be fooled, and it sure seems like we are living in an age of great uncertainty. deception on almost every level, 'fake' news, etc. which means we need to be super diligent to not being led astray!! That to me means being in more prayer than ever before and likewise in the Word ( the Bible)!!!
And tho I personally think it is not all wrong to be aware of the 'news', the culture, and so on, we always need to check everything with Scripture. The need to be careful, not to see everything in the news as a sign, is especially needful of caution and care.
One of the most glaring 'signs' will be confusion ( which is not of God but of Satan), and deception, lies, etc.
It also seems to me, that more and more is the interest in the future, which is great for fortune tellers, astrologists, so called 'prophets', etc.
|
|
fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,471
|
Post by fearnot on Dec 15, 2019 11:27:39 GMT -5
Speaking of how great deception, confusion etc are in today's world I watched a video yesterday of a man about 30 something interviewing college students at Harvard, Yale etc.
He was about 5'10", white, man....
So he asked student, woman, men, different races etc.
Would they be fine with his saying, that he was a 8 foot tall, Chinese woman? Every single student agreed if that was how he identified himself, it was fine, good for her etc.
He asked other such questions and then asked would it also be okay if he identified as being a 5 year old girl?
Yes they all agreed and could he thus go to kindergarten? Of course, no problem.
I felt he should have gone one step beyond...I would have followed up with If you had a 5 year old daughter... could I invite her over to my house to play barbies and have a sleep over?
The main take away from that video for me, was how successful the devil has been in spreading and teaching confusion and lies. If these students ( supposedly bright minds) cannot stand up for obvious worldly truths, they will fall for anything the soon coming anti-Christ will state.
Jesus said: [smear:#e65119]"And Jesus answered them, “See that no one leads you astray".[/smear:#3e075d:0] Matthew 24: 4
He of course was speaking about spiritual deception, but how can these young people be discerning about that when they actually believe there are 100 sexes now? And a 5' 10" white man is a 8' Chinese woman?? or a 5 year old girl?
Of course, Satan no doubt is laughing his head off.
But sadly there are people claiming right now to be Jesus one young Australia man, claims he 'remembers' his 'former' life as Jesus and there is a Siberian man who claims he is Jesus reincarnated...who has gone on to found a church that combines: combines various religions together, including Buddhism, Hinduism and Christianity etc. Sounding a little like working towards the one world religion ( by the way, all these men have followers....its not just their making these statements....people believe them...why? I suspect, they don't know the Bible very well for one thing).
Also in Brazil there is a man who since 1979 has been claiming to be the reincarnation of Jesus Christ.
Another one from Israel no less, also claims he is the reincarnated Jesus,
Another is in South Africa ( I am not posting their names....its bad enough that all of these have each deceived thousands of followers each)
Notice how at least so far they make these 'Christian/Christ' claims by Hindu beliefs. There have been and are many many more
However, they will increase and will become more and more 'convincing' with signs and wonders.... if you do not know the Bible many will be convicted and lead many astray. [smear:#21721d] Matthew24:23
"Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. 24 For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you beforehand. 26 So, if they say to you, ‘Look, he is in the wilderness,’ do not go out. If they say, ‘Look, he is in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it."[/smear:#761b7e:1]
|
|
|
Post by Cindy on Dec 16, 2019 10:23:31 GMT -5
First, I wanted to let you know that I wrote a nice long post in reply to your first one. But when I submitted it, the whole site was down! I kept trying for awhile but pro boards was having problems and the site was still down so I had to give up eventually. Sorry about that.
You said: "Anyway, there are some very 'specific' events ( besides these somewhat 'general") which we can look at in the verses that follow, and will be posted later ( not to mention all sorts of other verses in scripture throughout the Bible) However you ( Cindy) think is a more logical organized way. Jesus speaks of False Messiahs coming in His name even....which maybe we should look at tomorrow or not yet...depending on what you think?" This is your study hon. You're the teacher, not me, so you can do it however you think it should be done. I'll add to it and help you, but it's mainly all up to you!
...So back to Jesus saying:
[smear:#b01275]"5 For many will come in my name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and they will lead many astray."[/smear:#4819e6:1]
There are already those who have said that they are Jesus, and there will be many more to come, but the ultimate one will be the Antichrist.
As an aside John MacArthur pointed out that this question concerning the end times was the longest answer Jesus gave to a question.....so that right there is a hint at why it is important. ...
... One of the most glaring 'signs' will be confusion ( which is not of God but of Satan), and deception, lies, etc.
It also seems to me, that more and more is the interest in the future, which is great for fortune tellers, astrologists, so called 'prophets', etc.
We tend to view that verse as a Christian, mainly because that's what we are lol. But, what we need to do is remember who Jesus was talking to when He made these statements and what was going on with them. Jesus was speaking to his disciples who had just asked Him, "What will be the sign of Your coming … ?" Luke 19:11 lets us know that they thought the Millennial Kingdom was going to appear at any moment. We know too that Jesus and His disciples were all Jews which is why they assumed that the Kingdom would be appearing shortly. From the time just before Jesus was born to the time of His resurrection, all the Jew's were talking about the fact that the Messiah would be coming soon, and they were all looking for Him. On top of that, there were actually quite a few Jewish men who claimed to be the Messiah, from shortly before the birth of Jesus to shortly after His resurrection. Whenever a man would make that claim, the Pharisees would send some of their number to check the person out and see if the person really was the Messiah or not. This is what they did with Jesus too, but due to jealousy and greed, they refused to tell the people the truth about Him and so the nation was punished for rejecting Him.
While this verse is for Christians as well as Jew's, and will be true before the tribulation and during the tribulation - especially toward the very end of the tribulation. Let me share what this means for the Jewish people who are alive during the tribulation, because Satan will be targeting them especially. First, here's a few verses that talk about this: “Jesus answered: “Watch out that no one deceives you. For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many.” (Matthew 24:4–5)
Ever since Adam sinned, humans have been in the middle of a great spiritual war. Satan wants to kill us, and God wants to save us, and stupidly, we tend to run to Satan instead of God! This war is a battle for our souls and it has been intensifying as we get closer to the rapture and tribulation. That's why we're seeing more evil then ever before. As Barbara already said, we're seeing more and more false teaching and heresy too. In fact, sometimes I think there's more false teaching then there are pastors preaching the truth!
Satan wants to prevent anyone from getting saved, but he especially wants to prevent any Jewish person from getting saved. During the tribulation, the two most persecuted groups will be Jew's and Christians; and out of the two groups, the Jew's will be persecuted much worse then the Christians. The Antichrist will persecute the Jew's so horribly during the last half of the tribulation, that it will make the holocaust look easy by comparison! That's how badly Satan hates the Jewish people.
During the last half of the trib, besides physically torturing any Jew's he captures, Satan, as the antichrist, will also try to lure many of the Jew's to false messiah's. There will be a huge number of people claiming to be Jesus, and a huge number claiming that the antichrist is the Messiah, right up to the very end. That's why Jesus warns them by saying that His next coming won't be secret or so only a few know about it like when He was born as a baby, but instead will be seen by everyone around the world all at the same time. “At that time if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or, ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect—if that were possible. See, I have told you ahead of time. “So if anyone tells you, ‘There he is, out in the desert,’ do not go out; or, ‘Here he is, in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.” (Matthew 24:23–27) Sadly, many of them will be tricked by the antichrist, which is why Jesus said: “I have come in my Father’s name, and you do not accept me; but if someone else comes in his own name, you will accept him.” (John 5:43)
You also mentioned that another sign is the massive amount of confusion we're seeing even today. That's very true. The Lord has told us: “For God is not a God of confusion but of peace.” (1 Corinthians 14:33) I thought what the Bible tells us about confusion was interesting. Let me share some of it and show you how different versions translate the verses: NKJV | Jas 3:16 For where envy and self-seeking exist, confusion and every evil thing are there. NIV | Jas 3:16 For where you have envy and selfish ambition, there you find disorder and every evil practice. LEB | Jas 3:16 For where there is jealousy and selfish ambition, there is disorder and every evil practice. NRSV | Jas 3:16 For where there is envy and selfish ambition, there will also be disorder and wickedness of every kind. As you can see, they're all very similar and are all saying the same thing. But showing the slightly different ways they say it, helps us get a better grasp of what's being said. When I look at this, I see the world today, because today, society is all about "self" and especially self seeking. Here's another verse in which God told the Israelites what He would do if they turned away from Him: “The LORD will send on you curses, confusion and rebuke in everything you put your hand to, until you are destroyed and come to sudden ruin because of the evil you have done in forsaking him.” (Deuteronomy 28:20)
We also know that sexual sins are one of Satan's favorites because it defiles us so badly, so it's not a surprise that he would cause the unsaved to be confused about their gender and about whether or not they should be with someone of the same sex.
|
|
fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,471
|
Post by fearnot on Dec 16, 2019 12:21:38 GMT -5
Thank you so much Cindy for you words as always!!!!!!! :D
As I mentioned before, if Jesus addressed the end times, it makes sense for Christians to do so. And with all of the signs leading up to and culminating in the tribulation ( in size, number, intensity etc.) They continue to do so even now.
The next thing Jesus mentioned was:
[smear:#094b1e]"And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars" [/smear:#8f0c7e:1]
So wars have been going on since almost the beginning and He is saying: [smear:#b93904]"See that you are not alarmed, for this must take place, but the end is not yet. "[/smear:#7919e6:1]
This sign is kind of a non sign, in that it has always been so, and will continue....like all the signs they will increase in size, and intensity.....especially in the tribulation.
Wars do show human sin, depravity, greed, grasping for power, lack of compassion and love. etc.
In fact, instead of pointing to one single war as THE END ( like the 2 world wars)..... they are just a continuation of what sinful men do
Jesus went on to say: [smear:#067875] "For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, "[/smear:#dee40a:0]
I was wondering if the number of wars had increased at all and found this quote from John MacArthur:
"Seventy wars recorded before Christ. In the 1,000 years after Christ, 50 wars. Fifty wars in a thousand years. In the next 500 years, 100 wars. In the next 300 years, 250 wars. In the last 200 years, 500 wars. Twenty wars in the last four years..."
But none of these will be like what is coming in the future....
The idea 'we' will create a paradise with peace is NOT going to happen.... If anything, it seems people are more split and divided into angry groups even in our own country.
Jesus goes on to say: [smear:#e61948] "and there will be famines and earthquakes in various places. All these are but the beginning of the birth pains".[/smear:#19e62e:2]
Again there have been many violent earthquakes but we can be certain there will be more, as the second law of thermodynamics is in operation and everything is moving towards disorder,disintegration and deterioration.
But again, the Bible tells us some earthquakes in the future will be so massive, they will be beyond any in the past. Also there will be famines: some major ones have happened all over the world, like in Ireland, India, Mexico, Sweden, France, etc etc etc. However, in the future over 1/4 of humanity will die from famine ( those who are so concerned about population control, should know this fact).
In other words global disasters of various kinds.
As the signs ( these and others not yet looked at) which have always been, will increase and as they do so... in abundance we can know we are getting closer and closer to the end...and the beginning of sorrows.
As an aside, it odd in a way, while technology increases at almost the speed of light ( ha).... people are more depressed, angry, fearful, lonely, confused, lost etc.
And like birth pains start slowly but begin to increase the closer it is to a baby being born, one might think of tthese signs as Braxton Hicks contractions.....this is not yet the main event of the real contractions that will produce the baby..... but Braxton Hicks contractions are real.... and the beginning.....
these signs are on some level noted by non believing people, and they are more stressed, distressed, anxious, worried and concerned.....about what, they are not certain....
but there is an underlying fear, a hole in their spirit that is growing bigger ( as they try to fill it with all manner of things). There is a sense that peace is allusive, danger could happen at any minute, and sorrow is right around the corner.
However, Jesus told us to expect these things....and not to be terrified ( that is not to say, it will be easy, but if you are trusting in the Lord, it is a lot easier). there should be no question as to what Jesus said, so far, is the exact truth!!
|
|
|
Post by Cindy on Dec 17, 2019 11:02:36 GMT -5
Thank you so much Cindy for you words as always!!!!!!! :D
As I mentioned before, if Jesus addressed the end times, it makes sense for Christians to do so. And with all of the signs leading up to and culminating in the tribulation ( in size, number, intensity etc.) They continue to do so even now.
The next thing Jesus mentioned was:
[smear:#094b1e]"And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars" [/smear:#8f0c7e:1]
So wars have been going on since almost the beginning and He is saying: [smear:#b93904]"See that you are not alarmed, for this must take place, but the end is not yet. "[/smear:#7919e6:1]
This sign is kind of a non sign, in that it has always been so, and will continue....like all the signs they will increase in size, and intensity.....especially in the tribulation.
Wars do show human sin, depravity, greed, grasping for power, lack of compassion and love. etc.
In fact, instead of pointing to one single war as THE END ( like the 2 world wars)..... they are just a continuation of what sinful men do
Jesus went on to say: [smear:#067875] "For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, "[/smear:#dee40a:0]
I was wondering if the number of wars had increased at all and found this quote from John MacArthur:
"Seventy wars recorded before Christ. In the 1,000 years after Christ, 50 wars. Fifty wars in a thousand years. In the next 500 years, 100 wars. In the next 300 years, 250 wars. In the last 200 years, 500 wars. Twenty wars in the last four years..."
But none of these will be like what is coming in the future....
The idea 'we' will create a paradise with peace is NOT going to happen.... If anything, it seems people are more split and divided into angry groups even in our own country.
Jesus goes on to say: [smear:#e61948] "and there will be famines and earthquakes in various places. All these are but the beginning of the birth pains".[/smear:#19e62e:2]
Again there have been many violent earthquakes but we can be certain there will be more, as the second law of thermodynamics is in operation and everything is moving towards disorder,disintegration and deterioration.
But again, the Bible tells us some earthquakes in the future will be so massive, they will be beyond any in the past. Also there will be famines: some major ones have happened all over the world, like in Ireland, India, Mexico, Sweden, France, etc etc etc. However, in the future over 1/4 of humanity will die from famine ( those who are so concerned about population control, should know this fact).
In other words global disasters of various kinds.
As the signs ( these and others not yet looked at) which have always been, will increase and as they do so... in abundance we can know we are getting closer and closer to the end...and the beginning of sorrows.
As an aside, it odd in a way, while technology increases at almost the speed of light ( ha).... people are more depressed, angry, fearful, lonely, confused, lost etc.
And like birth pains start slowly but begin to increase the closer it is to a baby being born, one might think of tthese signs as Braxton Hicks contractions.....this is not yet the main event of the real contractions that will produce the baby..... but Braxton Hicks contractions are real.... and the beginning.....
these signs are on some level noted by non believing people, and they are more stressed, distressed, anxious, worried and concerned.....about what, they are not certain....
but there is an underlying fear, a hole in their spirit that is growing bigger ( as they try to fill it with all manner of things). There is a sense that peace is allusive, danger could happen at any minute, and sorrow is right around the corner.
However, Jesus told us to expect these things....and not to be terrified ( that is not to say, it will be easy, but if you are trusting in the Lord, it is a lot easier). there should be no question as to what Jesus said, so far, is the exact truth!!
Interesting! I was interested in MacArthur's quote about the number of wars, so I looked it up to see what year he wrote that in. He wrote that Oct 21, 2007. So then I wanted to see how many wars have there been since 2007. I found a list and counted them and there's been 70 up till now. But then I realized that we don't know how many were included from 2007.... So I counted 5 wars in 2007. So you could then say that in the 12 years from 2007 to now, there's been 75 wars. This is where I got the information: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars:_2003%E2%80%93present
I find it interesting that we've been seeing a lot of so called "natural disasters" here in the US for the last few years, and it's been almost constant too. It seems like as soon as one disaster is over and the people have begun to be cared for, the next one hits. As far as I know, that's never happened here in the US before. Oh, we've had natural disasters before, even some horrible ones that took many lifes, but there wasn't another right around the corner and then another after that one and so on.
Knowing that God uses things like tornadoes, hurricanes, tidal waves, earthquakes, floods, fires, etc. as judgements against sin, you'd think that the way these have been happening here in the US would cause people to wake up and repent of their sins. But it hasn't. Instead there's more sin being thrown in our faces every day.
I wanted to know how many disasters have been recorded in the US since 2010, so I tried looking that up. Problem is, that the site may not consider a tornado or hurricane a disaster... we'll see. What I found was an article about it. Let me share some of it. It's interesting how they're putting the blame on climate change for the disasters. I guess that's more comfortable then being made to repent of their personal sins. The first paragraph is an eye opener!
“Incidents of extreme weather are projected to increase as a result of climate change,” according to the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration. And the climate crisis continues to intensify. The last four years have been the four hottest years since NOAA began keeping records 139 years ago. Additionally, sea levels have risen by 8 inches since 1880, and 3.7 inches since 1995. Meanwhile, extreme weather events are becoming more common and more catastrophic. ...
... For example, in the last decade, there have been 111 climate related natural disasters that have caused at least $1 billion in damage. Over the preceding decade, there were only 59 such disasters. 247wallst.com/special-report/2019/09/24/worst-natural-disasters-in-the-us-in-the-last-10-years/
|
|
fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,471
|
Post by fearnot on Dec 17, 2019 11:18:19 GMT -5
When you wrote: "Knowing that God uses things like tornadoes, hurricanes, tidal waves, earthquakes, floods, fires, etc. as judgments against sin, you'd think that the way these have been happening here in the US would cause people to wake up and repent of their sins. But it hasn't. Instead there's more sin being thrown in our faces every day".
I first agreed....it is sooooooo true! And then it reminded me of the tribulation when these things will be the worst ever....and do people repent then? No, they raise their fists ( at God whom they supposedly do not believe in....and curse Him)
Thank you for your investigative research!!! :)
|
|
|
Post by Cindy on Dec 17, 2019 11:39:48 GMT -5
Sorry, my computer kept freezing so I thought it might work better if I posted what I'd written so far and then closed the browser and reopened it. Seems to have helped at least for the moment.
Anyway, as for the article about the disasters go, while the general information was good, we still don't know how many there have been. Let me try to find out again. Yep, I found it in wikipedia again and counted 56 since 2007. Those however are only the ones consider really severe. They're not counting what they consider minor ones that might have only killed a few people or wrecked a few homes. But I bet the people left alive would consider those pretty bad too. I checked a science site and found this, just for 2018 alone they show 108 natural disasters in the US! www.statista.com/statistics/216819/natural-disasters-in-the-united-states/
Yet I found another article that I'll share the headline of: 2017 is on track to be a record-setting year for massive natural disasters in the U.S. www.pbs.org/newshour/science/2017-track-record-setting-year-massive-natural-disasters-u-s
We can be sure it's no one's imagination saying that there are more natural disasters then usual lately. It's kind of ironic however that while these are often termed "natural disasters" at the same time, on local news we often hear different words to describe what's happening. We hear words like apocalypse, sayings like the disaster is of "biblical proportions". And these are from the mouths of the unsaved! So at some place deep inside, they know the real cause of these things is sin and that God isn't happy about it. Yet they don't repent. But that's even what God tells us will happen during the tribulation. That the people will know exactly what's going on, the real causes, and yet will refuse to repent! That's just insane! Yet that's what will happen with the majority of people during the tribulation.
|
|
fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,471
|
Post by fearnot on Dec 17, 2019 12:28:28 GMT -5
Thinking about sin growing and growing more and more.... That is what sin does and why even if a human could have done or even thought, just one sin in their life ( a complete impossibility), they could not go to Heaven, because sin grows and grows.
Which reminds me that Psalm 14 is as relevant today, as the day David wrote it ( but even more so)
Here are parts of it:
[smear:#e62d19] "1 The fool says in his heart, “There is no God.” They are corrupt, they do abominable deeds; there is none who does good.
2 The Lord looks down from heaven on the children of man, to see if there are any who understand, who seek after God.
3 They have all turned aside; together they have become corrupt; there is none who does good, not even one.
4 Have they no knowledge, all the evildoers ....[/smear:#175281:0]
I am pretty sure at least in America and Europe the belief in God has decreased dramatically At least the God of the Bible. Many people seem themselves as 'spiritual' meaning they are into witchcraft, or astrology, or make a 'god' of their own who does not mind any kind of abomination etc.
It is not that they do some kind of perversion and feel bad about it rather they demand it is their right, and they celebrate their 'freedom' to be 'me'. They have no knowledge of God ( Bible reading is rarely done anymore so they have no knowledge, nor do they care too).
(Which is also stated in Psalm 53)
This all began in the Garden of Eden:
[smear:#921673]Genesis 3: 1 - 6
"1 He said to the woman, “Did God actually say, ‘You shall not eat of any tree in the garden’?” 2 And the woman said to the serpent, “We may eat of the fruit of the trees in the garden, 3 but God said, ‘You shall not eat of the fruit of the tree that is in the midst of the garden, neither shall you touch it, lest you die.’” 4 But the serpent said to the woman, “You will not surely die. 5 For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.” 6 So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was to be desired to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate, and she also gave some to her husband who was with her, and he ate". [/smear:#268230:0]
The first strategy of the devil was to create doubt about God's Word..... and that has worked well for the demon right up to this day ( his combining it with man's insufferable pride made it a winning combo).
If we want to know how all this mess got started, besides the Creation, this is one of the most important things to know about what, why, where is all this going, etc.
So many people think this part of scripture is at best an allegory, but many more think its a fairy tale or myth. Exactly what satan wants us to think. Not only is this where sin and rebellion entered, it also began the problem between men and woman.
Satan get Eve alone (or Adam does not protect Eve), either way, it starts the problems... for sure they did not work together as a team ( nor did either go to the Lord and ask about any of this).
Doubting God's word is key tho.
Satan then accuses God of keeping them from some pleasure they 'deserved'....sound familiar? And so today we often hear: MY god ( the one they make up): is not mean, intolerant, unloving, full of don'ts ( restrictions from 'joy, love etc.) etc etc.
It is interesting that the idea of restriction is something Eve actually embellished ( totally missing why God gave them just one test of their love and His protection)... thus excusing her responsibility and need to love the Lord, or go to Him and ask Him about what the devil was saying.....she took it all in her own hands.
There is more to be looked at but I will write on it tomorrow because I have to get ready to go for an MRI and blood work etc.
|
|
fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,471
|
Post by fearnot on Dec 18, 2019 12:46:32 GMT -5
[smear:#1664a0]Genesis 3: 16
Now the serpent was more crafty than any other beast of the field that the Lord God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God actually say, ‘You shall not eat of any tree in the garden’?” 2 And the woman said to the serpent, “We may eat of the fruit of the trees in the garden, 3 but God said, ‘You shall not eat of the fruit of the tree that is in the midst of the garden, neither shall you touch it, lest you die.’” 4 But the serpent said to the woman, “You will not surely die. 5 For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.” 6 So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was to be desired to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate, and she also gave some to her husband who was with her, and he ate". [/smear:#e619a3:0]
It must seem strange to be looking at the 'beginning', for a topic, about the end.... and yet, it is good to know where all this began. It also shows we are not getting better and better, more 'enlighten' etc.
Eve is an example for us of what NOT to do.... We are not to listen to, look at, spend time with alone with, neglect to resist, not pray, etc. etc. when temptation comes.
Sin and evil are so clear and real, and yet, satan has made all manner of inroads even there, making them seem less or even rights... We often here: Sin is a 'right' by statements like:
I was born that way As long as it doesn't hurt someone else, its ok That's your opinion Times have changed As long as everyone consents He, she or they ( even the devil) MADE me do it I had a bad childhood That is judgmental everyone else does it is my evolutionary DNA survival instinct and survival of the fittest who made you the boss of me ( or you are NOT the boss of me) it's not my fault I am a free spirit I get to choose how I live my life, I am the captain of my own ship and the list goes on and on for excuses etc. of sin!!!
Well satan goes from planting the seed of doubting God's Word, in Genesis to Eve: [smear:#e65519] "“Did God actually say"[/smear:#9119e6:0]
to the next step: of denying God's Word.... The Father of lies the devil/satan, calls God a liar, when he says:
"“You will not surely die"
( God had said they would die..... if they disobeyed the one and only test of their love for Him)
It is not a big jump to go for "questioning" God's word ,to denying it. Does that mean we can never have questions? No because there are sincere questions, as opposed to, questions that are coming from a rebellious heart.
It is interesting that many of the recent so called 'Christian' worship leaders, pastors etc, that have left the faith, did so because they want a divorce, a different kind of lover, wanted to be 'FREE' and so on. It was all about the great ME...what I want....etc.
This is just an expression of what the devil presented to Eve ( his lie....and by the way, what he has always wanted)...the devil wants to be God.
[smear:#22ab50]''You will be like God!'' [/smear:#bd0953:0]
A picture of the devil can be seen is Isaiah 14: [smear:#219f9c] "12 “How you are fallen from heaven, O Day Star, son of Dawn! How you are cut down to the ground, you who laid the nations low! 13 You said in your heart, ‘I will ascend to heaven; above the stars of God I will set my throne on high; I will sit on the mount of assembly in the far reaches of the north; 14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High.’ [/smear:#e68119:0]
But wanting to be our own god, has been in mankind since the fall in the garden.....and people strive for it more and more, to this very day. Rebellion against God is is worn like a badge of pride, showing how superior intellectually (and every other way) a person who has thrown off the shackles of believing in this silly myth of God. They are so deceived.
You might begin to wonder why it is so easy for satan.....but it was and it still is. If people refuse to stand for truth, they will fall for anything. They are like putty in the hands of the devil.
When Eve said: [smear:#e61950] "God said, ‘You shall not eat of the fruit of the tree that is in the midst of the garden, neither shall you[/smear:#1f650d:0] touch it,
By adding to what God said, she is showing her moving to the dark side. She is grumbling that God is so petty, and putting so much restrictions of what they can and cannot do, that she has already rebelled in her heart. It's as if she is saying: Seriously??? We cannot even touch this beautiful tree... are we babies? All these 'rules' ....where is our freedom to be who we want to be? What a offensive, disagreeable, loathsome burden this rule is!!!
More than that She lessen what God actually said when she changed it to : [smear:#47e619]"lest you die."[/smear:#e61959:1]
But God actually said: [smear:#e6193f]"you shall surely die.”[/smear:#1f7018:1]
This reminds me of when one person will encourage another to try drugs, or drink alcohol or have premarital sex etc etc etc. for the first time
They will say things like:
You can't know if you don't try it ( no mention of how serious the outcome can be) are you tied to your mommy's apron strings? one time will not hurt? don't be a nerd, so uptight, weird, etc etc etc.
To the point ,that in today'w world, it almost goes without saying!! After all if you believe the punishment is either not so harsh, or non existent there is a lot less reason not to 'try it ONE time, and make up your own mind!!"
Then you notice that after all:
[smear:#134943]"the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was to be desired to make one wise"[/smear:#7e2b68:1]
Because many 'forbidden' things at first are 'delights'.... and some can be delights throughout life..... (IF done in the right way .... God's way), otherwise they may slowly or very quickly lead to death.
This has not changed throughout the ages. ....and has increased in a frightening manner!!
I want to look at our 'beginning,' a bit more and then, go back... to the beginning of the end.
But I will be looking in the Old Testament as well, because, it speaks a lot of end times as well as the New Testament.
|
|
|
Post by Cindy on Dec 18, 2019 13:06:29 GMT -5
When you wrote: "Knowing that God uses things like tornadoes, hurricanes, tidal waves, earthquakes, floods, fires, etc. as judgments against sin, you'd think that the way these have been happening here in the US would cause people to wake up and repent of their sins. But it hasn't. Instead there's more sin being thrown in our faces every day".
I first agreed....it is sooooooo true! And then it reminded me of the tribulation when these things will be the worst ever....and do people repent then? No, they raise their fists ( at God whom they supposedly do not believe in....and curse Him)
Thank you for your investigative research!!! :)
I'm glad you pointed that out about how the people in the Trib will react. I meant to add that but my computer kept freezing and giving me a hard time and I wound up forgetting to add it. People wonder why the people won't repent when they know all of this for sure: that the antichrist is evil and fighting against God, and that God is quite obviously going to win; that Jesus died for their sins and wants to save them; and also realize that everything is playing out just like the Bible says it will. The reason they don't repent is easy to understand though. They love and enjoy their sins and don't want to give them up. Therefore they literally choose to believe Satan and the antichrist's lie, that the antichrist has a chance to win the war against God.
It sounds awful to us that anyone could love sin that much, but that's because the Lord has changed and softened our hearts when we were saved, and has continued to do so for us, while their hearts have constantly been hardened against the things of God. But if we think back to before we were saved, or even for some of us after we were saved, we can usually find a sin that we really liked and didn't want to give up at least at first. When a person likes or loves a sin like that, if they choose not to give it up, their heart is hardened even if they're saved, and each time they're given a chance to give it up and don't, their heart is hardened even more. This continues until their heart becomes so hard and they've grieved the Holy Spirit so badly, that they no longer even have the choice to give it up. Now they can't give it up even if they should want to. For someone who is saved, it never gets that far as God won't allow it to happen, not because the person is better then others.
The whole idea of that is scary to me because I know it could have happened to me just as easily as it does to others. The only reason it didn't was because of God's Grace and Mercy in choosing to save me.
Thinking about sin growing and growing more and more.... That is what sin does and why even if a human could have done or even thought, just one sin in their life ( a complete impossibility), they could not go to Heaven, because sin grows and grows.
Which reminds me that Psalm 14 is as relevant today, as the day David wrote it ( but even more so)
Here are parts of it:
[smear:#e62d19] "1 The fool says in his heart, “There is no God.” They are corrupt, they do abominable deeds; there is none who does good.
2 The Lord looks down from heaven on the children of man, to see if there are any who understand, who seek after God.
3 They have all turned aside; together they have become corrupt; there is none who does good, not even one.
4 Have they no knowledge, all the evildoers ....[/smear:#175281:0]
I am pretty sure at least in America and Europe the belief in God has decreased dramatically At least the God of the Bible. Many people seem themselves as 'spiritual' meaning they are into witchcraft, or astrology, or make a 'god' of their own who does not mind any kind of abomination etc.
It is not that they do some kind of perversion and feel bad about it rather they demand it is their right, and they celebrate their 'freedom' to be 'me'. They have no knowledge of God ( Bible reading is rarely done anymore so they have no knowledge, nor do they care too).
(Which is also stated in Psalm 53)
This all began in the Garden of Eden:
[smear:#921673]Genesis 3: 1 - 6
"1 He said to the woman, “Did God actually say, ‘You shall not eat of any tree in the garden’?” 2 And the woman said to the serpent, “We may eat of the fruit of the trees in the garden, 3 but God said, ‘You shall not eat of the fruit of the tree that is in the midst of the garden, neither shall you touch it, lest you die.’” 4 But the serpent said to the woman, “You will not surely die. 5 For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.” 6 So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was to be desired to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate, and she also gave some to her husband who was with her, and he ate". [/smear:#268230:0]
The first strategy of the devil was to create doubt about God's Word..... and that has worked well for the demon right up to this day ( his combining it with man's insufferable pride made it a winning combo).
If we want to know how all this mess got started, besides the Creation, this is one of the most important things to know about what, why, where is all this going, etc.
So many people think this part of scripture is at best an allegory, but many more think its a fairy tale or myth. Exactly what satan wants us to think. Not only is this where sin and rebellion entered, it also began the problem between men and woman.
Satan get Eve alone (or Adam does not protect Eve), either way, it starts the problems... for sure they did not work together as a team ( nor did either go to the Lord and ask about any of this).
Doubting God's word is key tho.
Satan then accuses God of keeping them from some pleasure they 'deserved'....sound familiar? And so today we often hear: MY god ( the one they make up): is not mean, intolerant, unloving, full of don'ts ( restrictions from 'joy, love etc.) etc etc.
It is interesting that the idea of restriction is something Eve actually embellished ( totally missing why God gave them just one test of their love and His protection)... thus excusing her responsibility and need to love the Lord, or go to Him and ask Him about what the devil was saying.....she took it all in her own hands.
There is more to be looked at but I will write on it tomorrow because I have to get ready to go for an MRI and blood work etc.
Yes, I've been able to look back in my own life and see where Satan has used that same strategy with me and it worked. But one thing that we tend to miss in that story is Adam's part in it. Most people today don't understand why the Bible (and God obviously) say that Adam sinned, instead of saying that Eve sinned. Nor do they understand how Adam sinned unless they decide it was because he ate the apple too, but even with that they don't truly understand it. But it's very important for us to understand because it affects our lives every day and is the basis for why we are all born sinners. Adam was the spiritual head over Eve, and Eve was supposed to submit to him as her husband. God had not told Eve not to eat the fruit from that tree, He had told Adam. It was Adam's job to tell her and answer any questions she might have about it. If we look at Genesis 3 carefully, nowhere does it say that Adam wasn't around when this happened. He simply isn't mentioned until she gives him some of the fruit in verse 6. But he most likely was with her during that whole time. Adam could have stopped her, but he chose not to rock the boat. He chose to be "tolerant". Then when she gave the fruit to him to try, instead of saying "no", he again chose not to rock the boat and went ahead and followed her in sin. Adam, who was supposed to be the leader and head of the home, became the follower. And isn't that what we see in society today? Women not submitting their husbands, and men refusing to be the heads of their homes! Even in Christian families, and of course we see a great deal of "tolerance" too. In fact, now it's gotten even worse because many men have taken on the woman's role and the women have taken on the man's role. People think nothing of it today when the men stay home with the children and the wife is the bread winner. But that's not how God ordained it and it is a sin to do things differently than what the Lord ordained, whether we like it or not.
If we look at that whole scenario and how people are rebelling against God, it's easier to see how people will continue to rebel against Him. Even now we see that Satan has encouraged people to rebel against many of the things God has ordained. They're even rebelling against their own physical gender! They're also rebelling against marriage between one man and one woman and that marriage is forever and that divorce is not to be entertained. They're rebelling against the roles God ordained for women and men in many different ways and we could list many other things that show they're rebelling against God's ways.
Which reminds me of something I forgot to mention before. Adam and Eve chose to believe Satan's lies about the fruit that it tasted good and would make them like God etc) instead of the truth that God had told them about it. (that it would cause them to die.) That's the bottom line about sin in general too. This is something we all need to be aware of and remember about the people today and those who will go through the tribulation: “The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with the work of Satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders, and in every sort of evil that deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.” (2 Thessalonians 2:9–12) See, we're right back to the same thing again. They CHOOSE to believe the lies because they want to sin. It's not that they don't know any better, they do! They're aware that God hates what they're doing, but they don't care. They only care about what they want, and when their sin actually causes them harm, just as God warned them it would, they get angry at God! As far as they're concerned they should be allowed to sin and not pay the price for it, but to live happily ever after.
I'm not suggesting that everyone knows everything the Bible teaches and all about God, that's obviously not true. But they know enough to know that they shouldn't be doing the things they're doing. So because they have chosen to believe the lies, God will now allow them to believe all the lies Satan wants to tell them, so that ultimately they'll be condemned for eternity.
What we can be thankful for though is that there are some who will go through the tribulation and will be saved. In fact a great many will be saved immediately following the rapture! They will have to pay for their refusal to repent before the rapture (and God will have sent more then enough people to them to give them that chance) by having to go through the Tribulation. But their reward for living through the entire tribulation will be to get to enter the Millennial Kingdom and repopulate the earth, living for the entire 1000 years! That's quite the reward! Then after that, they'll also receive their new bodies.
|
|
fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,471
|
Post by fearnot on Dec 18, 2019 23:20:05 GMT -5
As always thank you Cindy.
Tolerance seems like such a nice, compassionate, loving word...but in so many ways it is just the opposite.
It is true we are to live as peaceably as possible with those who insist on their own way, so in that sense we are tolerant.....however, we ar still to spread the gospel..... some may yet come to the Lord and be saved.
But tolerating someone's different false religion, or actions does not mean we approve, or fail to warn them if possible.
Sometimes we cannot, because they have made it crystal clear, they absolutely do not want to hear......
But we do not compromise, because we know the truth....and we are available should they ever wish to know the truth.
But yes I should have mentioned Adam's sin, for sure!!!
|
|
|
Post by Cindy on Dec 19, 2019 10:44:52 GMT -5
Dec 18, 2019 12:46:32 GMT -5 fearnot said:
[smear:#1664a0]Genesis 3: 16
Now the serpent was more crafty than any other beast of the field that the Lord God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God actually say, ‘You shall not eat of any tree in the garden’?” 2 And the woman said to the serpent, “We may eat of the fruit of the trees in the garden, 3 but God said, ‘You shall not eat of the fruit of the tree that is in the midst of the garden, neither shall you touch it, lest you die.’” 4 But the serpent said to the woman, “You will not surely die. 5 For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.” 6 So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was to be desired to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate, and she also gave some to her husband who was with her, and he ate". [/smear:#e619a3:0]
It must seem strange to be looking at the 'beginning', for a topic, about the end.... and yet, it is good to know where all this began. It also shows we are not getting better and better, more 'enlighten' etc.
Well said Barbara! This is something the people who are left behind in the rapture will be studying carefully when they do come to God. Sin is already awful even now and I consider it rampant, and yet it will be so much worse after the rapture that it's almost impossible for me to grasp how bad sin will be then. So the people who are saved during that time are going to need to understand the enemy of their souls and how he operates in order to resist him. To get that understanding they will have to spend much time in God's Word and prayer.
While it's hard to get folks to spend more then 5 -15 minutes a day in the Bible today, then people will be spending every hour they possibly can in God's Word; even getting up extra early and going to bed late just so they can spend additional hours in His Word. The people who are saved during the Tribulation will make our generation of Christians look really bad. They will really shame us, because we should be doing the same thing. it's obvious that we're not doing that though because if we were there would be no falling away and believers wouldn't fall for any false teaching. As always thank you Cindy.
Tolerance seems like such a nice, compassionate, loving word...but in so many ways it is just the opposite.
It is true we are to live as peaceably as possible with those who insist on their own way, so in that sense we are tolerant.....however, we ar still to spread the gospel..... some may yet come to the Lord and be saved.
But tolerating someone's different false religion, or actions does not mean we approve, or fail to warn them if possible.
Sometimes we cannot, because they have made it crystal clear, they absolutely do not want to hear......
But we do not compromise, because we know the truth....and we are available should they ever wish to know the truth.
But yes I should have mentioned Adam's sin, for sure!!! God's way of tolerating someone's false religion or false teaching is to tell them the Truth about their religion and of course tell them the Gospel (or the truth about their false teaching) but after telling them the truth, not hounding them about it. Instead simply telling them that if they should decide they'd like to know more, we'd be glad to tell them.
The problem is that we can't see the spiritual damage that happens due to false religions and teachings. So because of that, we don't try hard to speak the truth in love to them. But it's honestly no different then a child who is sticking their hand into a fire. If we saw that happening, we'd run and grab the child's arm and get him away from that fire as quickly as possible - hopefully before they actually got their hand into it. If they'd already stuck their hand in it, we'd then supply medication and care so they could heal and we'd tell them not to do that again because it will hurt them every time. Seeing someone in spiritual danger is every bit as desperate a situation as a toddler about to stick their hand in a fire. In fact, it's a worse danger because it could end with them in Hell eternally.
God doesn't expect us to save everyone. In fact, we can't save anyone at all. That's His job! But He does expect us to tell each and every person He brings into our lives, about Him. That's all our job is. Nothing more and nothing less. After that, we leave it up to Him as to whether or not they wind up becoming saved. The only time we would have another job with them is if they do choose to be saved and then we are to disciple them - help them grow in their faith.
Don't worry about not talking about Adam Barbara. We can't all remember everything all the time lol.
|
|
|
Post by Cindy on Dec 19, 2019 11:43:46 GMT -5
What I'd like to do now is compare the plagues God sent on Egypt, with some of the judgements that God will send during the Tribulation. You'll notice that many of them are similar:
The waters of the Nile were turned to blood (Ex. 7:14–25). “He turned their waters into blood, causing their fish to die.” (Psalm 105:29) “The third angel poured out his bowl on the rivers and springs of water, and they became blood.” (Revelation 16:4) “The first angel sounded his trumpet, and there came hail and fire mixed with blood, and it was hurled down upon the earth. A third of the earth was burned up, a third of the trees were burned up, and all the green grass was burned up.” (Revelation 8:7) “The second angel sounded his trumpet, and something like a huge mountain, all ablaze, was thrown into the sea. A third of the sea turned into blood, a third of the living creatures in the sea died, and a third of the ships were destroyed.” (Revelation 8:8–9) “The third angel sounded his trumpet, and a great star, blazing like a torch, fell from the sky on a third of the rivers and on the springs of water— the name of the star is Wormwood. A third of the waters turned bitter, and many people died from the waters that had become bitter.” (Revelation 8:10–11)
Frogs spread through the land of Egypt (Ex. 8:1–15). “Then I saw three evil spirits that looked like frogs; they came out of the mouth of the dragon, out of the mouth of the beast and out of the mouth of the false prophet.” (Revelation 16:13)
Lice (or gnats) infested the land (Ex. 8:16–19). Flies swarmed throughout the land (Ex. 8:20–32). The livestock were stricken with disease (Ex. 9:1–7).
Boils infected the Egyptians (Ex. 9:8–12). “The first angel went and poured out his bowl on the land, and ugly and painful sores broke out on the people who had the mark of the beast and worshiped his image.” (Revelation 16:2)
A hail storm destroyed the Egyptian fields but did not touch the land of Goshen (Ex. 9:13–35). “He turned their rain into hail, with lightning throughout their land; he struck down their vines and fig trees and shattered the trees of their country.” (Psalm 105:32–33) “The first angel sounded his trumpet, and there came hail and fire mixed with blood, and it was hurled down upon the earth. A third of the earth was burned up, a third of the trees were burned up, and all the green grass was burned up.” (Revelation 8:7) “From the sky huge hailstones of about a hundred pounds each fell upon men. And they cursed God on account of the plague of hail, because the plague was so terrible.” (Revelation 16:21)
Hordes of locusts infested the land (Ex. 10:1–20). “He spoke, and the locusts came, grasshoppers without number; they ate up every green thing in their land, ate up the produce of their soil.” (Psalm 105:34–35) “And out of the smoke locusts came down upon the earth and were given power like that of scorpions of the earth. They were told not to harm the grass of the earth or any plant or tree, but only those people who did not have the seal of God on their foreheads. They were not given power to kill them, but only to torture them for five months. And the agony they suffered was like that of the sting of a scorpion when it strikes a man. During those days men will seek death, but will not find it; they will long to die, but death will elude them.” (Revelation 9:3–6)
Darkness covered the land (Ex. 10:21–29). “He sent darkness and made the land dark— for had they not rebelled against his words?” (Psalm 105:28) “The fifth angel poured out his bowl on the throne of the beast, and his kingdom was plunged into darkness. Men gnawed their tongues in agony and cursed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, but they refused to repent of what they had done.” (Revelation 16:10–11) “The fourth angel sounded his trumpet, and a third of the sun was struck, a third of the moon, and a third of the stars, so that a third of them turned dark. A third of the day was without light, and also a third of the night.” (Revelation 8:12)
The firstborn in every Egyptian family died (Ex. 12:29, 30). “It said to the sixth angel who had the trumpet, “Release the four angels who are bound at the great river Euphrates.” And the four angels who had been kept ready for this very hour and day and month and year were released to kill a third of mankind.” (Revelation 9:14–15)
I'm not going to comment on the above. It really speaks for itself. I just wanted to point out that there are some similarities between the plagues of Egypt and the ones in the Tribulation. Of course there are many more that will happen during the Tribulation. This does not list anywhere near all of them, but just the ones that could be similar in some way as the ones in Egypt.
|
|
fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,471
|
Post by fearnot on Dec 19, 2019 12:19:39 GMT -5
One thing that we can apply to our lives, is looking at Eve. God had not spoken directly to Eve like Adam.
Still, when the devil encouraged her, to doubt ( suggesting maybe she heard wrong, because surely a good, loving God would not keep anything pleasurable away!) She did not go back to Adam or God ....
However, we can go back over and over to the Bible, because being ignorant of God's Word, is going to cause pain ( sin, bad decisions never have a long lasting good outcome).
We need to follow Proverbs 4: 14, 15
[smear:#207c39]"Do not enter the path of the wicked, and do not walk in the way of the evil. Avoid it; do not go on it; turn away from it and pass on".[/smear:#79239a:1]
We need to RUN....from evil and sin....to God ( in prayer) and in His Word....the Bible.
And we should note that is the very place satan attacked....God's Word.
How is that working today? The devil has tried ( pretty successfully) to remove the Bible, in schools, in the workplace, in politics, in basically all walks of life. Not only that, he has convinced many people, that the Bible is 'hate' speech.
Being in God's Word will help us detect the devil's lies ( which sadly so many have fallen for and are at a greater and greater rate). Of course, many folks do not want to know what God says about this or that pet sin.....they love it toooo much.
In a sense we suffer from Eve's covetousness....she wanted what satan said, she did not have ( in one way the devil told her a 1/2 truth.....she was NOT God!!) so many people are not content with what they have, they want what someone else has, or stuff ( stuff that is not good for them, and is harmful.....but they covet it anyway). In fact, many of the other sins have a basis in wanting what we don't have ( stealing, adultery, even murder might be a result)
Satan first question was asking if God said they could not eat from ANY tree....Eve said actually they could except.... for one.....they one they could not ( and of course that would be the one she wanted)
This has become a fine art and science in today's world...advertisers know exactly how to manipulate our covetousness strings ,to get us to buy all manner of things we don't need. And all this clawing for such things, people, power, stuff, etc etc. keeps our eyes off God.
I don't think Eve was thinking of God when chatting with satan. One thing tho, she may have thought he was the archangel that he actually was at one time in the past..... and she might have thought he was actually bringing a message from God.
Which is why we need to be careful , because we have been warned in Galatians 1: 8.9:
[smear:#28501c]"But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed".[/smear:#761837:1]
Today there is a lot of interest in angels ( not so for the God of the Bible)....programs like 'Touched by an Angel" and so on.
Tomorrow, we can look at satan's outright lie, and how it is still working well for him today.
|
|
|
Post by Cindy on Dec 20, 2019 9:27:04 GMT -5
One thing that we can apply to our lives, is looking at Eve. God had not spoken directly to Eve like Adam.
Still, when the devil encouraged her, to doubt ( suggesting maybe she heard wrong, because surely a good, loving God would not keep anything pleasurable away!) She did not go back to Adam or God ....
However, we can go back over and over to the Bible, because being ignorant of God's Word, is going to cause pain ( sin, bad decisions never have a long lasting good outcome).
We need to follow Proverbs 4: 14, 15
[smear:#207c39]"Do not enter the path of the wicked, and do not walk in the way of the evil. Avoid it; do not go on it; turn away from it and pass on".[/smear:#79239a:1]
We need to RUN....from evil and sin....to God ( in prayer) and in His Word....the Bible.
And we should note that is the very place satan attacked....God's Word.
How is that working today? The devil has tried ( pretty successfully) to remove the Bible, in schools, in the workplace, in politics, in basically all walks of life. Not only that, he has convinced many people, that the Bible is 'hate' speech.
Being in God's Word will help us detect the devil's lies ( which sadly so many have fallen for and are at a greater and greater rate). Of course, many folks do not want to know what God says about this or that pet sin.....they love it toooo much.
In a sense we suffer from Eve's covetousness....she wanted what satan said, she did not have ( in one way the devil told her a 1/2 truth.....she was NOT God!!) so many people are not content with what they have, they want what someone else has, or stuff ( stuff that is not good for them, and is harmful.....but they covet it anyway). In fact, many of the other sins have a basis in wanting what we don't have ( stealing, adultery, even murder might be a result)
Satan first question was asking if God said they could not eat from ANY tree....Eve said actually they could except.... for one.....they one they could not ( and of course that would be the one she wanted)
This has become a fine art and science in today's world...advertisers know exactly how to manipulate our covetousness strings ,to get us to buy all manner of things we don't need. And all this clawing for such things, people, power, stuff, etc etc. keeps our eyes off God.
I don't think Eve was thinking of God when chatting with satan. One thing tho, she may have thought he was the archangel that he actually was at one time in the past..... and she might have thought he was actually bringing a message from God.
Which is why we need to be careful , because we have been warned in Galatians 1: 8.9:
[smear:#28501c]"But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed".[/smear:#761837:1]
Today there is a lot of interest in angels ( not so for the God of the Bible)....programs like 'Touched by an Angel" and so on.
Tomorrow, we can look at satan's outright lie, and how it is still working well for him today.
Very good. But haven't we already covered all of that?
|
|
|
Post by Cindy on Dec 20, 2019 10:48:21 GMT -5
“Now, brothers, about times and dates we do not need to write to you, for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. While people are saying, “Peace and safety,” destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape.” (1 Thessalonians 5:1–3)
When we study the OT, we see that there were a great many false prophets and false teachers in those days too. They always predicted the opposite of what God said. So while God's prophets were warning the people to turn from their sins and repent or God would send another terrible judgement to discipline them and turn them back to Himself, the false prophets and false teachers would be telling the people that everything was fine, and in fact, God was pleased with them, etc. We see the same thing happening today.
God's prophets today speak from what His Word says, there are no longer any prophets speaking something God has told only them. “In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe.” (Hebrews 1:1–2) Jesus is the Word of God and we can find what He has to say to us only in His Word, the Bible. This is important to understand because the false teachers claim the opposite. They teach the opposite of everything that the Bible teaches. They claim to hear from God personally and that they're just like the OT prophets. But they say they don't have to be 100% correct with their prophecies like the OT prophets had to be. They allow themselves to make mistakes because they know very well that they aren't really hearing from God. Their so called prophecies are either so general that anything and everything could be said to fulfill them, or when they are more specific, they're soon shown to be completely wrong as they are not fulfilled. So if someone tells you they're a prophet, or an apostle, run as fast as you can away from them, plugging your ears so they can't contaminate you with their lies.
Today's false teachers and false prophets, also tell people that everything is going great and that God is pleased with those who tolerate sin. Of course they don't put it that way, instead they'll say something like, He's pleased with those who realize that homosexuals were created that way and God loves them just as they are, not expecting them to change. The false teachers and prophets tell people the world is getting better and that Jesus won't return until the people have brought peace to the earth. See they make themselves and other people out to be the ones who have the power necessary to bring about world peace forever; but the Bible tells us that there will be no lasting peace on earth until Jesus reigns from Jerusalem.
Here's an example of what the false prophets were saying in the OT times: “They dress the wound of my people as though it were not serious. ‘Peace, peace,’ they say, when there is no peace.” (Jeremiah 6:14) and “But I said, “Ah, Sovereign LORD, the prophets keep telling them, ‘You will not see the sword or suffer famine. Indeed, I will give you lasting peace in this place.’ ”” (Jeremiah 14:13) And this is exactly what the false prophets and teachers of today are saying! They keep telling people they have nothing to repent of, that they're doing great. They tell them that there will be lasting peace for everyone and all will be safe - and generally insinuate that this will happen as soon they're rid of the hard core Christians who are calling people to repentance, because of course they're saying that we are the false teachers.
So how can a person know for sure who is telling the Truth? That's easy. All they have to do is read their Bible. The better they know the Bible, the better they'll be at discerning the truth. Let me remind you again of our opening verse: “Now, brothers, about times and dates we do not need to write to you, for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. While people are saying, “Peace and safety,” destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape.” (1 Thessalonians 5:1–3) The "day of the Lord" that Paul is talking about here is the Second Coming of Christ. This is when He will return to the earth, with all of His angels and all of us who have truly believed in Him. He will end the war of Armageddon by defeating the armies, rescuing Jerusalem, and finally defeating the Antichrist and false prophet.
So you see, from the very beginning of time, when Adam and Eve first believed Satan's lie over God's truth, right up to when Jesus ends Armageddon, the people who aren't saved will still be buying into Satan's lies and the lies they tell each other, instead of listening to God's Truth. When we return with Jesus and His Angels, it will be a day like no other, and the greatest day in the history of the world! I find it interesting that Jesus will have all of us and all of His angels with Him at His return, and yet none of us or the angels will do anything except watch as He alone defeats the Antichrist and his millions and ends the war. Neither the angels or any of us will have anything to do until our Lord is ready to start the clean up and judgements and all that will be needed to be done before the Millennial Kingdom can actually begin. Even then, He will still be doing most of the actual work.
Notice too that even this verse using the description of labor pains. When Armageddon starts, the Antichrist will have put out the propaganda that everything is going to be just wonderful as soon as he rids the world of the Jews and the last of the Christians. He will have the media report on all kinds of made up stuff about how great the world is going to be as soon as he wins the war. How anyone could believe him, is hard for me to grasp except that I know they will believe it because God says so. So they're all going to be extremely surprised when suddenly, and literally out of thin air, the Lord Jesus descends on a white horse and begins killing the Antichrist's army and rescuing Jerusalem. It will be the last of the many labor pains that have already begun in our time. This is the labor pain that happens when the baby has "crowned" (when you can see the head and the baby is ready to actually be born).
Some might think from this that the birth is when the Antichrist dies, but that's not it at all. All these labor pains, that have brought about terrible judgements, were not just to harm people but were to bring to birth the Jewish Nation that will be the head of the Millennial Kingdom. It's all about bringing the Jewish people to the point of realizing that Jesus is their Messiah and repenting of their sin of rejecting Him. That will finally come to full fruition at the Second Coming. That is exactly what Jesus told them when He was here the first time: “For I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, ‘Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.’”” (Matthew 23:39)
““They will be mine,” says the LORD Almighty, “in the day when I make up my treasured possession. I will spare them, just as in compassion a man spares his son who serves him. And you will again see the distinction between the righteous and the wicked, between those who serve God and those who do not.” (Malachi 3:17–18) “This third I will bring into the fire; I will refine them like silver and test them like gold. They will call on my name and I will answer them; I will say, ‘They are my people,’ and they will say, ‘The LORD is our God.’ ”” (Zechariah 13:9)
““And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and supplication. They will look on me, the one they have pierced, and they will mourn for him as one mourns for an only child, and grieve bitterly for him as one grieves for a firstborn son.” (Zechariah 12:10) “Look, he is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him, even those who pierced him; and all the peoples of the earth will mourn because of him. So shall it be! Amen.” (Revelation 1:7) ““At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory.” (Matthew 24:30)
|
|
fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,471
|
Post by fearnot on Dec 20, 2019 13:42:19 GMT -5
One thing I had not realized was that when the apostles asked Jesus about what would be the sign of the sign of his coming again, Jesus answered the questions in reverse order..... It's hard enough for me to answer questions in the correct order, never mind....in reverse order!!
Another sign in Matthew 24 is
[smear:#e6192b]And because lawlessness will be increased, the love of many will grow cold.[/smear:#1e1e89:2]
Even many believers, cherry pick what parts of the Bible they prefer to live by.... certain 'laws' are considered 'legalism ' ( and yes there is such a thing as 'legalism'.....but that term can also be an excuse for doing what I want to do, and be guilt free).
And non believers, more and more, have no use for authority, laws, morals etc. Some used to curb their behavior out of fear off being caught, but now being caught is often considered, a badge of honor. Also, many things that were once illegal ..... no longer ( drugs, various sexual perversions, etc etc. etc. what was right is now wrong, and what was wrong is now right)
People think their own ideas are waay superior to some 'fairy tale' God's.
One of the outcomes of abandoning God's principal's is love grows cold. And in fact, sexual perversions are almost always heartless, without any love. Drugs often lead to violent murders, life is devalued in every way and walk of life ( mothers kill their children in the womb, mass murders for the slightest offence, etc.) It seems like the world is on a fast track in this.
It is in many ways getting harder and harder to endure.... and yet we must preserve...
We note how our Lord was able to endure the very worst that ever was or ever will be.... He looked to what He knew would be the glorious outcome.
Still we don't just fold our hands and wait.... we are to be spreading the gospel to a world wanting to hear it less and less. Nevertheless, there are many who are depressed, worried, confused, knowing something is drastically wrong, and getting more and more so. Even some who have it 'made' the have wealth that abounds, beauty, lovers, respect, power, etc. and they ask: " Is this all there is?" Suicide is on the increase...
Maybe you can't preach but we can all support those who do, with our finance, prayers, etc.
Well Jesus also said in Matthew 24: 33 and 37: [smear:#317913]" So also, when you see all these things, you know that he is near, at the very gates"[/smear:#9e2677:0]
[smear:#e62c19]For as were the days of Noah, so will be the coming of the Son of Man[/smear:#36228e:0]
As I said, not just our country but really all over the world we are on a fast track, of being in the days of Noah. I think in some areas we have surpassed those people in sins, violence, etc.
However, these things are going to become sooooo much worse in the tribulation tho.
We need to be about our Father's business, because for us, the rapture could be at any time.... I imagine I ought to address the whole rapture is is not in the Bible controversy....maybe tomorrow, unless you do so before me ;) I start with this: The word is from a Latin word ( the Bible was not originally written in English so we can't expect certain English words)....but the Latin word means: a snatching away and that is so God can pour out His righteous judgment on the earth.
We will be going about our daily work, like in Matthew 24:40:
[smear:#230c93] "Then there will be two men in the field; one will be taken and one will be left.[/smear:#8f0d29:3]
|
|
fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,471
|
Post by fearnot on Dec 21, 2019 13:35:47 GMT -5
I was reading [smear:#0e5555]I John 1:8 " If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us". [/smear:#38e619:0]
This morning, and it struck me how in today's world this is so very prevalent.
It seems like many many people don't want to admit that anything is sin... There are endless excuses: From I have made 'mistakes, or some errors' to I was born that way My parents forced me to go that way because they were so rigid, mean, and so on ( this may have been true in some cases, but one cannot hold onto that past)
I read that D. L. Moody visited a prison once and said:
"I never found such an innocent lot of men in my life as in that place. Each man explained that somebody else was to blame."
Well today being a 'victim', has now spread to almost everyone ( I too have fallen in this category for much of my life, as you well know...and it still comes up every now and again, and I have to fight it).
Also people exclaim: If it's love... its ok, right and good or Sin is some old fashioned, outdated, authoritarian, manipulation of people etc. Furthermore, it should be a right to be able to do what ever you want.
and so on....
So if there is no acknowledgement of sin, then there is no reason for a Savior, and ultimately no salvation.
However, even believers are, in fact sinners, Our sins are cleansed by the blood of Jesus but we are still sinners... and we too sometimes try to gloss over some sin in our lives... For example we might say: gossip isn't murder therefore it's really a very very minor issue, or perhaps, we flirt with someone in the office....but it doesn't mean anything, it's just harmless, or we might cheat 'a little' on our tax return...its our money after all and the government has taken enough of it from us etc etc. etc. We deceive ourselves to the point the devil hardly has to do any work at all.....we do most of it for him.so that when he comes to accuse us before God, we have done a lion's share of the work
[smear:#157378]"...the accuser of our brothers, has been thrown down, who accuses them day and night before our God". Revelation 12:10[/smear:#1e7915:3]
So we deceive ourselves, and the truth....is not in us .
It is also sometimes hard for even believers in the world today, when 'sin' is everywhere presented as harmless, non-existent, everybody does it, it doesn't have the same meaning it might have in the past, and so on.
We have to be on guard all the time, what we watch, hear, listen to, look at etc. we are being forewarned, because as Ephesians 5:15. 16 says:
[smear:#0f7274]"Look carefully then how you walk, not as unwise but as wise, making the best use of the time, because the days are evil".[/smear:#098e0d:2]
If the days were evil then, they have only grown so much more so now as we live in the end times.
When we believe we have not sinned or have no sin in us, we demean the Holiness of God, in fact, we separate ourselves from God ( being a 'god' ourselves).
What people also blind themselves to, besides thinking they do not sin, is that sin always has consequences.
Sometimes the consequences are not immediate, and thus they think they really are 'free'... until... the sad truth awakens them... this does not mean they always repent, or are even sorrowful, frequently, it just makes them angry. They often continue following that which is killing them.
It matters not, if one likes President Trump, or hates him... he does have one thing right, I think, and that is the ever increasing 'fakes' news.... lies, deception, untruthfulness, that is growing by leaps and bounds.
The only place to turn for solid never erring truth is the Bible. In fact, God, God's Word, the Holy spirit are the only way to undeceive our selves Unless we come near to God in reading and studying His Word daily, and prayer our sense of sin and its deadly and eternal consequences will but slim to none.
|
|
anna
Trials
Posts: 1,837
|
Post by anna on Dec 22, 2019 10:10:29 GMT -5
Well said Barbra. I hear sensationalism all the time, that only weakens the listener and does not strengthen them. Sensationalism is a lie.
|
|
fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,471
|
Post by fearnot on Dec 22, 2019 11:20:29 GMT -5
So I am jumping waaay ahead today ( I will go back) But yesterday, I saw a recent TV interview with the creator and AI robot Sophia ( the one that the was granted citizenship to by Saudi Arabia). I had watched a video of this AL a few years back and wondered at the progress.
I have to say, I find them creepy, scary and worrisome!
By the way, its not just me, even atheistic scientists ... "More than 8,000 people, including Hawking, Noam Chomsky, and Elon Musk, have signed an open letter warning against potential “pitfalls” of AI development. Stephen Hawking said this:
“The development of full artificial intelligence could spell the end of the human race,” Stephen Hawking told the BBC in 2014. “Once humans develop artificial intelligence, it would take off on its own, and redesign itself at an ever-increasing rate. Humans, who are limited by slow biological evolution ( not a believer I am pretty sure by this statement) , couldn't compete and would be superseded."
The two people doing the interview were getting more at ease and comfortable with Sophia....until they started talking about if AI's could or would turn against humans. At least I think that was when the man said he was feeling better about the robot....and then she gave a look that really scared him.
The creator response was if we humans show love and compassion and all our good traits, that worry is unlikely if they ever became sentient.
That response (to me) said, firstly, I doubt he is a Christian, because he seemed unaware of the sin and depravity of mankind. If his 'creation' became sentient, and were to mimic humans we are 100% doomed.
However, I started thinking further on it and realized that the Bible actually predicted over 2,000 years ago, that the AL's would become sentient ( and really many 'idols' already have in the past). I explain what I mean but first here is one verse that is concerning the tribulation and the image ( idol, or AI as we call it today perhaps):
[smear:#0e4b41]"And it was allowed to give breath to the image of the beast, so that the image of the beast might even speak and might cause those who would not worship the image of the beast to be slain". Revelation 13:15[/smear:#51e619:0]
Note: the image not only speaks, but in fact...kills humans!!!
What I meant about idols in the past. People have WORSHIPED idols in the past, although they remained mute and did not move as a robot does move.
Satan has always wanted to be God and be worshiped...
and I imagine all the fallen angels that followed him do as well.
So it is my opinion, that fallen angels perhaps can in someway, unite with images, and then through the idols in some fashion to gain that worship of men.
And when the anti-Christ's image become sentient, perhaps it too will be connected with a fallen angel ( just speculation on my part) as well, of course fallen angels are sentient.
Oh and about AI's and worship....
Anthony Levandowski, former Uber and Google self-driving car engineer famously founded his own church based ‘Way to the Future’ is based on the premise that Levandowski, according to reports, will help create an AI god".
What we know from scripture is the antichrist will have an image...we are not sure it will be an AI....but I do think they could be in the running.
The other scary part....besides the predicted theory of scientist of AI achieving 'singularity.....is one that runs along side...of people want to merge with AI.....so they can be this be uploaded into a silicon utopia and have a wonderful new ( eternal) life. This they hope will eradicate the fear of death as they will live forever in a symbiotic co-mingling with AI's.
But this may be in any case, man's last invention and pride of knowledge
[smear:#55a51e]"4 But you, Daniel, shut up the words and seal the book, until the time of the end. Many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall increase.” [/smear:#178788:0] Opps got to get ready for church.
|
|
anna
Trials
Posts: 1,837
|
Post by anna on Dec 22, 2019 16:57:30 GMT -5
I have heard there is a smart city, Lancaster CA, that has wireless smart nodes on street lights working with 5G. So like a person can walk out of a building and just say Uber and they will not need a smartphone. The woman speaking said that people do not survive long with those frequencies and that it is a surveillance grid.
|
|
fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,471
|
Post by fearnot on Dec 23, 2019 11:53:17 GMT -5
Interesting Anna! I wonder if that could even be a setting up for the anti-Christ? Having such a detailed surveillance system?
I heard people who say similar things about 5G and others who poo-pooh it .
I tend to lean in the camp of it not being a good thing for one's health and maybe even a worse scenario...
But in any case, why exactly, do we need something that will give a second faster load up or whatever? Are we all that impatient?
|
|
|
Post by Cindy on Dec 23, 2019 12:22:05 GMT -5
One thing I had not realized was that when the apostles asked Jesus about what would be the sign of the sign of his coming again, Jesus answered the questions in reverse order..... It's hard enough for me to answer questions in the correct order, never mind....in reverse order!!
Another sign in Matthew 24 is
[smear:#e6192b]And because lawlessness will be increased, the love of many will grow cold.[/smear:#1e1e89:2]
Even many believers, cherry pick what parts of the Bible they prefer to live by.... certain 'laws' are considered 'legalism ' ( and yes there is such a thing as 'legalism'.....but that term can also be an excuse for doing what I want to do, and be guilt free).
And non believers, more and more, have no use for authority, laws, morals etc. Some used to curb their behavior out of fear off being caught, but now being caught is often considered, a badge of honor. Also, many things that were once illegal ..... no longer ( drugs, various sexual perversions, etc etc. etc. what was right is now wrong, and what was wrong is now right)
People think their own ideas are waay superior to some 'fairy tale' God's.
One of the outcomes of abandoning God's principal's is love grows cold. And in fact, sexual perversions are almost always heartless, without any love. Drugs often lead to violent murders, life is devalued in every way and walk of life ( mothers kill their children in the womb, mass murders for the slightest offence, etc.) It seems like the world is on a fast track in this.
It is in many ways getting harder and harder to endure.... and yet we must preserve...
We note how our Lord was able to endure the very worst that ever was or ever will be.... He looked to what He knew would be the glorious outcome.
Still we don't just fold our hands and wait.... we are to be spreading the gospel to a world wanting to hear it less and less. Nevertheless, there are many who are depressed, worried, confused, knowing something is drastically wrong, and getting more and more so. Even some who have it 'made' the have wealth that abounds, beauty, lovers, respect, power, etc. and they ask: " Is this all there is?" Suicide is on the increase...
Maybe you can't preach but we can all support those who do, with our finance, prayers, etc.
Well Jesus also said in Matthew 24: 33 and 37: [smear:#317913]" So also, when you see all these things, you know that he is near, at the very gates"[/smear:#9e2677:0]
[smear:#e62c19]For as were the days of Noah, so will be the coming of the Son of Man[/smear:#36228e:0]
As I said, not just our country but really all over the world we are on a fast track, of being in the days of Noah. I think in some areas we have surpassed those people in sins, violence, etc.
However, these things are going to become sooooo much worse in the tribulation tho.
We need to be about our Father's business, because for us, the rapture could be at any time.... I imagine I ought to address the whole rapture is is not in the Bible controversy....maybe tomorrow, unless you do so before me ;) I start with this: The word is from a Latin word ( the Bible was not originally written in English so we can't expect certain English words)....but the Latin word means: a snatching away and that is so God can pour out His righteous judgment on the earth.
We will be going about our daily work, like in Matthew 24:40:
[smear:#230c93] "Then there will be two men in the field; one will be taken and one will be left.[/smear:#8f0d29:3]
You said: "One thing I had not realized was that when the apostles asked Jesus about what would be the sign of the sign of his coming again, Jesus answered the questions in reverse order.....It's hard enough for me to answer questions in the correct order, never mind....in reverse order!!" But then you didn't explain anything about it. When we're teaching others, we have to remember that they may not know what we're talking about, so we have to show them and explain it. It's good to do that all the time because there's always going to be others reading the threads that don't post, and some of them won't understand it. So let's take a closer look at it: “Jesus left the temple and was walking away when his disciples came up to him to call his attention to its buildings. “Do you see all these things?” he asked. “I tell you the truth, not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down.” As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. “Tell us,” they said, “when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?”” (Matthew 24:1–3) The first question they asked was "When will this happen?" meaning when will the temple be torn down. They also asked, "And what will be the sign of your coming and the end of the age?" Really the two questions go together, at least the disciples thought they did at the time. They simply couldn't conceive of the Temple being so totally destroyed, unless it was because of the AntiChrist. Plus, they were still believing that Jesus would start the Millennial Kingdom any day. Jesus begins His answer with: “Jesus answered: “Watch out that no one deceives you. For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many. You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come.” (Matthew 24:4–6) which is speaking about the time of His Second Coming and the end of this age. Keep in mind that the disciples were still unaware that there would be a gap of time between their time and the Millennial Kingdom. Nor did they understand that Jesus would have to return a second time. They were viewing things as though they would all be happening soon.
Barbara, you'll have to take it from here as I don't have time to explain how He answered them backwards....
The rest of what you wrote was really good!
I was reading [smear:#0e5555]I John 1:8 " If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us". [/smear:#38e619:0]
This morning, and it struck me how in today's world this is so very prevalent.
It seems like many many people don't want to admit that anything is sin... There are endless excuses: From I have made 'mistakes, or some errors' to I was born that way My parents forced me to go that way because they were so rigid, mean, and so on ( this may have been true in some cases, but one cannot hold onto that past)
I read that D. L. Moody visited a prison once and said:
"I never found such an innocent lot of men in my life as in that place. Each man explained that somebody else was to blame."
Well today being a 'victim', has now spread to almost everyone ( I too have fallen in this category for much of my life, as you well know...and it still comes up every now and again, and I have to fight it).
Also people exclaim: If it's love... its ok, right and good or Sin is some old fashioned, outdated, authoritarian, manipulation of people etc. Furthermore, it should be a right to be able to do what ever you want.
and so on....
So if there is no acknowledgement of sin, then there is no reason for a Savior, and ultimately no salvation.
However, even believers are, in fact sinners, Our sins are cleansed by the blood of Jesus but we are still sinners... and we too sometimes try to gloss over some sin in our lives... For example we might say: gossip isn't murder therefore it's really a very very minor issue, or perhaps, we flirt with someone in the office....but it doesn't mean anything, it's just harmless, or we might cheat 'a little' on our tax return...its our money after all and the government has taken enough of it from us etc etc. etc. We deceive ourselves to the point the devil hardly has to do any work at all.....we do most of it for him.so that when he comes to accuse us before God, we have done a lion's share of the work
[smear:#157378]"...the accuser of our brothers, has been thrown down, who accuses them day and night before our God". Revelation 12:10[/smear:#1e7915:3]
So we deceive ourselves, and the truth....is not in us .
It is also sometimes hard for even believers in the world today, when 'sin' is everywhere presented as harmless, non-existent, everybody does it, it doesn't have the same meaning it might have in the past, and so on.
We have to be on guard all the time, what we watch, hear, listen to, look at etc. we are being forewarned, because as Ephesians 5:15. 16 says:
[smear:#0f7274]"Look carefully then how you walk, not as unwise but as wise, making the best use of the time, because the days are evil".[/smear:#098e0d:2]
If the days were evil then, they have only grown so much more so now as we live in the end times.
When we believe we have not sinned or have no sin in us, we demean the Holiness of God, in fact, we separate ourselves from God ( being a 'god' ourselves).
What people also blind themselves to, besides thinking they do not sin, is that sin always has consequences.
Sometimes the consequences are not immediate, and thus they think they really are 'free'... until... the sad truth awakens them... this does not mean they always repent, or are even sorrowful, frequently, it just makes them angry. They often continue following that which is killing them.
It matters not, if one likes President Trump, or hates him... he does have one thing right, I think, and that is the ever increasing 'fakes' news.... lies, deception, untruthfulness, that is growing by leaps and bounds.
The only place to turn for solid never erring truth is the Bible. In fact, God, God's Word, the Holy spirit are the only way to undeceive our selves Unless we come near to God in reading and studying His Word daily, and prayer our sense of sin and its deadly and eternal consequences will but slim to none.
Good! But I'd like to comment on what you said about if someone hates trump it doesn't matter... I understand what you were getting at and agree, but again, to make sure others don't misunderstand, we also need to mention that hating anyone is the opposite of what God wants from us. He commands us to love everyone, not just those we think are worthy of it. Therefore to hate anyone is a very bad sin that needs to be repented of. So I am jumping waaay ahead today ( I will go back) But yesterday, I saw a recent TV interview with the creator and AI robot Sophia ( the one that the was granted citizenship to by Saudi Arabia). I had watched a video of this AL a few years back and wondered at the progress.
I have to say, I find them creepy, scary and worrisome!
By the way, its not just me, even atheistic scientists ... "More than 8,000 people, including Hawking, Noam Chomsky, and Elon Musk, have signed an open letter warning against potential “pitfalls” of AI development. Stephen Hawking said this:
“The development of full artificial intelligence could spell the end of the human race,” Stephen Hawking told the BBC in 2014. “Once humans develop artificial intelligence, it would take off on its own, and redesign itself at an ever-increasing rate. Humans, who are limited by slow biological evolution ( not a believer I am pretty sure by this statement) , couldn't compete and would be superseded."
The two people doing the interview were getting more at ease and comfortable with Sophia....until they started talking about if AI's could or would turn against humans. At least I think that was when the man said he was feeling better about the robot....and then she gave a look that really scared him.
The creator response was if we humans show love and compassion and all our good traits, that worry is unlikely if they ever became sentient.
That response (to me) said, firstly, I doubt he is a Christian, because he seemed unaware of the sin and depravity of mankind. If his 'creation' became sentient, and were to mimic humans we are 100% doomed.
However, I started thinking further on it and realized that the Bible actually predicted over 2,000 years ago, that the AL's would become sentient ( and really many 'idols' already have in the past). I explain what I mean but first here is one verse that is concerning the tribulation and the image ( idol, or AI as we call it today perhaps):
[smear:#0e4b41]"And it was allowed to give breath to the image of the beast, so that the image of the beast might even speak and might cause those who would not worship the image of the beast to be slain". Revelation 13:15[/smear:#51e619:0]
Note: the image not only speaks, but in fact...kills humans!!!
What I meant about idols in the past. People have WORSHIPED idols in the past, although they remained mute and did not move as a robot does move.
Satan has always wanted to be God and be worshiped...
and I imagine all the fallen angels that followed him do as well.
So it is my opinion, that fallen angels perhaps can in someway, unite with images, and then through the idols in some fashion to gain that worship of men.
And when the anti-Christ's image become sentient, perhaps it too will be connected with a fallen angel ( just speculation on my part) as well, of course fallen angels are sentient.
Oh and about AI's and worship....
Anthony Levandowski, former Uber and Google self-driving car engineer famously founded his own church based ‘Way to the Future’ is based on the premise that Levandowski, according to reports, will help create an AI god".
What we know from scripture is the antichrist will have an image...we are not sure it will be an AI....but I do think they could be in the running.
The other scary part....besides the predicted theory of scientist of AI achieving 'singularity.....is one that runs along side...of people want to merge with AI.....so they can be this be uploaded into a silicon utopia and have a wonderful new ( eternal) life. This they hope will eradicate the fear of death as they will live forever in a symbiotic co-mingling with AI's.
But this may be in any case, man's last invention and pride of knowledge
[smear:#55a51e]"4 But you, Daniel, shut up the words and seal the book, until the time of the end. Many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall increase.” [/smear:#178788:0] Opps got to get ready for church.
OK, I have to stop you here: You said: "However, I started thinking further on it and realized that the Bible actually predicted over 2,000 years ago, that the AL's would become sentient ( and really many 'idols' already have in the past). I explain what I mean but first here is one verse that is concerning the tribulation and the image ( idol, or AI as we call it today perhaps):
[smear:#0e4b41]"And it was allowed to give breath to the image of the beast, so that the image of the beast might even speak and might cause those who would not worship the image of the beast to be slain". Revelation 13:15[/smear:#51e619:0] And that's simply not true. The Bible does not say that any "AI" becomes sentient in the future or in the past. Let's look at it in context again: “Because of the signs he was given power to do on behalf of the first beast, he deceived the inhabitants of the earth. He ordered them to set up an image in honor of the beast who was wounded by the sword and yet lived. He was given power to give breath to the image of the first beast, so that it could speak and cause all who refused to worship the image to be killed.” (Revelation 13:14–15) No where does the Bible say that the image was aware of anything or anyone. It only says that the false prophet, who is evil and most likely also possessed by demons or at least influenced by them a great deal, gives the image breath. In other words, the image appears to breath. We don't know if it's really alive and breathing, or if it just seems to be. Considering all we know about Satan, it would seem pretty logical to assume that it's all fake and just looks like it's alive and breathing. As far as causing the death of those who don't worship the AntiChrist, look at the wording again. It doesn't say that it "kills" those who won't worship the AC, it says it killed them, past tense. The way it's written indicates the killing is done all at once and only that one time. (Much like the left behind books showed it.) It also says the image speaks, but we see images speak all the time, so again there's nothing to indicate that this image of the AC is really alive and aware of itself and others. It's much more likely to be a huge hoax, as that's something that Satan does all the time. He's not at all original and he's not a creator. He's a copy cat and loves to destroy things and people.
Also keep in mind the definition of an AI: Artificial intelligence (AI) is the simulation of human intelligence processes by machines, so an "AI" by definition cannot be sentient.
But mainly we can not say that the Bible says or predicts that this image or statue becomes sentient as that's putting words in God's mouth. We can say it appears that way or seems like it, although I'd even want to explain that to be sure everyone understood I wasn't saying the image was sentient.....
Sorry hon, I've got to run..... Let's take Christmas Eve and Christmas off ok? Still do your bible study, but we won't have to post....
|
|
fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,471
|
Post by fearnot on Dec 23, 2019 13:06:27 GMT -5
So this morning I woke up with a wee bit of depression, and I repeated to myself a verse, I often us when that happens, [smear:#e62819]"......I am fearfully and wonderfully made"[/smear:#36a60c:0]
I remind myself, I am not a comic accident, that basically just 'happened' via time, evolution, and essentially made myself..... well, the universe just made itself so presumably just by random chance, I came into being.....
But then, it occurred to me....
concerning AI's humans scientists are waiting with bated breath, for the singularity to happen , when their machines become sentient.....
And what is the priority they have put into their 'creation'?
Is it love? compassion? pity? etc?
No it is based on "knowledge"
[smear:#629814]"But you, Daniel, shut up the words and seal the book, until the time of the end. Many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall increase.” Daniel 12:4[/smear:#aa19e6:0]
If they could compile all of human knowledge and place it in the AI ( via internet) then.... the AI will become 'alive' at some point in the near future.
[smear:#e64d19]"you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”.[/smear:#0d7e78:0].. and the AI's 'eyes' will be opened.
But just like Eve.... they don't worry much about the second part of that verse they only focus on
knowledge=good and being like God
and neglect, or push aside to the very bottom.... the second part ( which to me signals the most important terrifying part)...
EVIL 'Knowing'.... EVIL.....
do we humans KNOW EVIL? As our knowledge grows faster and faster and our 'creation' ( AI) also gathers more and more 'knowledge'
Is knowledge in fact neutral? neither good or bad?
or can it be both?
What has been our human experience with our increasing knowledge especially as we more and more kick God out?
It seems to me every invention has wonderful good or great uses!!!
But.... At the same time,
I can't think of any increased knowledge or invention, t hat also have a potential, or in fact, a negative aspect also.
And since I believe what God says.....an EVIL aspect.
So as you pointed out Anna.....G5 may be a wonderful faster, better, stronger addition for us but it also... might have some negative.... nay EVIL potential either now or soon?
and so we need to:
[smear:#741e93]"36 But stay awake at all times, praying that you may have strength to escape all these things that are going to take place, and to stand before the Son of Man.”[/smear:#239407:0]
But also lets look at 2 Timothy 3: 1-4 and see if any of the character traits in this list seem or are in fact, growing in our times?
[smear:#9e2b8b]"But understand this, that in the last days there will come times of difficulty. 2 For people will be lovers of self, lovers of money, proud, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3 heartless, unappeasable, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not loving good, 4 treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, 5 having the appearance of godliness, but denying its power. Avoid such people." [/smear:#329a7b:0]
Lovers of self There is sooooo much that could be said about this but the first thing that came to my mind is the endless "selfies" people take of themselves Has that ever happened in the history of mankind?
Lovers of self involves pride, and since we are all sinners ( both unbelievers and believers) pride, ego, arrogance etc. is a major pitfall.... however, we who trust God's word, are warned to beware of these things, and since, we trust His Word as the truth ( tho it does not paint a beautiful picture of us) we believers, can go in prayer to the Lord, about all of these sinful character flaws.
Going hand in hand with lovers of self is money to lavish on ourselves. What all people struggle with is that the more you have the more you want, and it never ever ever, is enough!! It cannot fill the hole that is inside each person only the love of the Savior will be able to fill it!!
But do we see an increase in fighting and scraping for money? Have not people always been working to 'better' their lives and thus worked hard to gain more money? Does not even this verse say so:
[smear:#1e16a6]" For no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it" Ephesians 5:29[/smear:#e6193c:0]
I think there is a difference between having basic needs met, and even having some 'special' items....but when a person total and complete priority is to have the best, the most luxurious, etc. to lavish on themselves, they have put themselves and money so they no longer 'need' or 'want' God. Not to mention, they believe having so much money, makes them 'somebody' very important, very powerful!!!
Which goes back to being lovers of self.....wanting others to also see how great you are. It has always been a mystery in a way, how people with money actually believe their are somehow superior to others because they have more stuff? When, in fact,some of them, at least are more evil they will step on anyone who gets in their way they will have more affairs more addictions etc etc etc.
|
|
fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,471
|
Post by fearnot on Dec 23, 2019 13:47:28 GMT -5
As always, thank you soooooooo much Cindy! On so many points. Exactly about President Trump. I totally agree, it does not matter if, it was Obama, Trump, bush Reagan, etc.or even if Hillary had won hating them is not OK Disliking and or disagreeing with their policies, is OK but hating is never OK for a Christian.
I only said that, because it seems like the dislike ( and almost hate) is worse for this president, than any of the former....and they all had to endure much much dislike!!!
Also, I don't really believe the AI's mankind are making will become sentient like humans with souls etc.
But I did wonder if the anti-Christ's image, might somehow connect with a powerful fallen angel..... but I was absolutely only 'wondering and speculating'
I probably should not do that in this forum because as you mentioned others might be reading
I just wanted to know your opinion because God has ...NOT... said in His Word the image would in fact be an AI.
However, just like what exactly will the mark of the beast be? It seems as each decade rolls around, a different human invention seems like a possibility presents itself
Still, it might be something completely different and I do NOT want to be around to find out for sure
Right now, a 'possibility' for the mark might be a computer chip ( put under the skin) or.... not.
The one thing about the computer chip is that many many young people today actually want to merge with robotics/AI's They have been brought up with super heroes that are physically stronger than plain old humans and to be able to have the internet downloaded into their brains seems....well....god-like?
I am going to have to discuss about Jesus answering questions in reverse later....the 26th maybe....
Have a Blessed Merry Christ-mas!!!
|
|
|
Post by Cindy on Dec 26, 2019 12:13:37 GMT -5
So this morning I woke up with a wee bit of depression, and I repeated to myself a verse, I often us when that happens, [smear:#e62819]"......I am fearfully and wonderfully made"[/smear:#36a60c:0]
I remind myself, I am not a comic accident, that basically just 'happened' via time, evolution, and essentially made myself..... well, the universe just made itself so presumably just by random chance, I came into being.....
But then, it occurred to me....
concerning AI's humans scientists are waiting with bated breath, for the singularity to happen , when their machines become sentient.....
And what is the priority they have put into their 'creation'?
Is it love? compassion? pity? etc?
No it is based on "knowledge"
[smear:#629814]"But you, Daniel, shut up the words and seal the book, until the time of the end. Many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall increase.” Daniel 12:4[/smear:#aa19e6:0]
If they could compile all of human knowledge and place it in the AI ( via internet) then.... the AI will become 'alive' at some point in the near future.
[smear:#e64d19]"you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”.[/smear:#0d7e78:0].. and the AI's 'eyes' will be opened.
But just like Eve.... they don't worry much about the second part of that verse they only focus on
knowledge=good and being like God
and neglect, or push aside to the very bottom.... the second part ( which to me signals the most important terrifying part)...
EVIL 'Knowing'.... EVIL.....
do we humans KNOW EVIL? As our knowledge grows faster and faster and our 'creation' ( AI) also gathers more and more 'knowledge'
Is knowledge in fact neutral? neither good or bad?
or can it be both?
What has been our human experience with our increasing knowledge especially as we more and more kick God out?
It seems to me every invention has wonderful good or great uses!!!
But.... At the same time,
I can't think of any increased knowledge or invention, t hat also have a potential, or in fact, a negative aspect also.
And since I believe what God says.....an EVIL aspect.
So as you pointed out Anna.....G5 may be a wonderful faster, better, stronger addition for us but it also... might have some negative.... nay EVIL potential either now or soon?
and so we need to:
[smear:#741e93]"36 But stay awake at all times, praying that you may have strength to escape all these things that are going to take place, and to stand before the Son of Man.”[/smear:#239407:0]
But also lets look at 2 Timothy 3: 1-4 and see if any of the character traits in this list seem or are in fact, growing in our times?
[smear:#9e2b8b]"But understand this, that in the last days there will come times of difficulty. 2 For people will be lovers of self, lovers of money, proud, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3 heartless, unappeasable, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not loving good, 4 treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, 5 having the appearance of godliness, but denying its power. Avoid such people." [/smear:#329a7b:0]
Lovers of self There is sooooo much that could be said about this but the first thing that came to my mind is the endless "selfies" people take of themselves Has that ever happened in the history of mankind?
Lovers of self involves pride, and since we are all sinners ( both unbelievers and believers) pride, ego, arrogance etc. is a major pitfall.... however, we who trust God's word, are warned to beware of these things, and since, we trust His Word as the truth ( tho it does not paint a beautiful picture of us) we believers, can go in prayer to the Lord, about all of these sinful character flaws.
Going hand in hand with lovers of self is money to lavish on ourselves. What all people struggle with is that the more you have the more you want, and it never ever ever, is enough!! It cannot fill the hole that is inside each person only the love of the Savior will be able to fill it!!
But do we see an increase in fighting and scraping for money? Have not people always been working to 'better' their lives and thus worked hard to gain more money? Does not even this verse say so:
[smear:#1e16a6]" For no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it" Ephesians 5:29[/smear:#e6193c:0]
I think there is a difference between having basic needs met, and even having some 'special' items....but when a person total and complete priority is to have the best, the most luxurious, etc. to lavish on themselves, they have put themselves and money so they no longer 'need' or 'want' God. Not to mention, they believe having so much money, makes them 'somebody' very important, very powerful!!!
Which goes back to being lovers of self.....wanting others to also see how great you are. It has always been a mystery in a way, how people with money actually believe their are somehow superior to others because they have more stuff? When, in fact,some of them, at least are more evil they will step on anyone who gets in their way they will have more affairs more addictions etc etc etc.
Good!
Do you remember when we studied the fall and talked about the knowledge of good and evil? Before Adam and Eve ate the fruit, they already had the knowledge of good. They spoke with the Lord regularly every day and had intelligent conversations with Him. The one thing they didn't have though was the knowledge of evil and that's what Satan desperately wanted them to have because he knew it would corrupt them. So Satan made it sound like God was withholding something good from them, something they should want, and Eve fell for it. As soon as they ate the fruit, the knowledge of evil was theirs. It wasn't just that they could now think of ways they could be evil, or that others could be, they were now enticed by that evil...they wanted it. Whereas before they had desired righteousness and love of God and others. they were now all about self love and putting themselves before God and others.
Their minds and hearts (thoughts and emotions) became corrupted as soon as they took that first bite of that fruit. And that's what gets passed down through the generations and why God has so much to say to us about being in control of our thoughts and emotions. Although they'd had perfect communion with God before this, that communion was now broken and they were so afraid of Him that they hid from Him! On top of that, they lied to Him and made excuses about what they'd done. (which is exactly how we tend to handle things all these generations later.) And, just as God had warned them, they instantly began to die, whereas before they sinned they would have lived forever.
The consequence of death for that sin was actually a blessing and not a curse at all, though they most likely wouldn't have thought so. But the Lord didn't want them (or us) to be stuck in that condition for eternity. He wanted to be able to save them from themselves and the only way that could be done is if their bodies and the bodies of those yet to be born, were made so they would eventually die.
This is a little confusing here, because you mixed up your words as you typed them: "It seems to me every invention has wonderful good or great uses!!! But....At the same time, I can't think of any increased knowledge or invention, that also have a potential, or in fact, a negative aspect also." I think you meant to say that you CAN think of increased knowledge and inventions that have the potential or in fact have a negative aspect also..... Or did I guess wrong? I would hope you can think of many that are used for evil or at least negative purposes, as I can think of many. The first that jumps to my mind is TV. It could be used for godly purposes but instead is used for evil. The same is true of the radio, and of the internet and computers. It's also true of credit cards and just about anything else you can think of.
As always, thank you soooooooo much Cindy! On so many points. Exactly about President Trump. I totally agree, it does not matter if, it was Obama, Trump, bush Reagan, etc.or even if Hillary had won hating them is not OK Disliking and or disagreeing with their policies, is OK but hating is never OK for a Christian.
I only said that, because it seems like the dislike ( and almost hate) is worse for this president, than any of the former....and they all had to endure much much dislike!!!
Also, I don't really believe the AI's mankind are making will become sentient like humans with souls etc.
But I did wonder if the anti-Christ's image, might somehow connect with a powerful fallen angel..... but I was absolutely only 'wondering and speculating'
I probably should not do that in this forum because as you mentioned others might be reading
I just wanted to know your opinion because God has ...NOT... said in His Word the image would in fact be an AI.
However, just like what exactly will the mark of the beast be? It seems as each decade rolls around, a different human invention seems like a possibility presents itself
Still, it might be something completely different and I do NOT want to be around to find out for sure
Right now, a 'possibility' for the mark might be a computer chip ( put under the skin) or.... not.
The one thing about the computer chip is that many many young people today actually want to merge with robotics/AI's They have been brought up with super heroes that are physically stronger than plain old humans and to be able to have the internet downloaded into their brains seems....well....god-like?
I am going to have to discuss about Jesus answering questions in reverse later....the 26th maybe....
Have a Blessed Merry Christ-mas!!!
Good! Looking forward to hearing what you have to say about Jesus answering their questions and hope you had a wonderful Christmas too!
I was pretty sure you didn't think that about AI's etc, but even though we tend to think that we're writing to each other and we both know what the other thinks etc, we have to keep in mind that other people do read what we say, therefore we must be very clear about what the Bible actually says and what we think or feel about something it says. It seems like when the End Times are being discussed from a biblical point of view, that many teachers have been much too slack in making the distinction between what the Bible says and what they think about it. For example, we all know that the Bible says that at the time of the Rapture we'll all be changed in the twinkling of an eye, and we'll meet the Lord in the air. Some teachers think that we will be invisible to the unsaved when this happens, others think we will be visible, but many teachers don't let people know that the Bible doesn't say which way it will happen. While there is a lot of Biblical precedent for it to be visible to the unsaved, that is still what we think, not what the Bible says, and the same is true for those who think it'll be invisible.
I love reflecting on what the Bible says and we're told that we should do so regularly. So that's a good thing. It's just not good when we forget to let people know that what we're saying is something we're thinking, and not necessarily what the Bible says. I have to admit that I'm just as guilty of it as anyone else, so I appreciate it when someone mentions it when I've done that. Wouldn't it be great if we had some kind of instant computer program that would instantly tell us whenever we've done that...kind of like spell checker lets you know when you've spelled something wrong?
|
|
fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,471
|
Post by fearnot on Dec 26, 2019 12:52:25 GMT -5
Yes you were absolutely right....I did mean, that I could think of how every invention of mankind has invented has, both 'good', helpful, etc. uses, but also they all can be used in a negative and/or even evil way.
yes, I agree, I do get to thinking and pondering, from time to time, about those things that scripture does not spell out ( tho a lot or most of scripture, is super clear, in no uncertain terminology)
Plus, having spent a lifetime with my nose in books, the wanna be writer in me, starts 'thinking', as I ponder scripture
Sometimes, that is a good thing, sometimes...not so much
But I need to be super clear, and say so.... when I am just 'wondering'.
Like God has said I Corinthians 2:9 " But, as it is written,
“What no eye has seen, nor ear heard, nor the heart of man imagined, what God has prepared for those who love him”
But I can 'know' (and then extrapolate in my thinking and pondering) from what He has already made for us on earth ( and this universe) that He has so lovingly provided so much beauty, love etc.
That I 'know' , it can only be a zillion times more beautiful, filled with love etc.
As an artist, I start 'thinking' ( God did not say this) but I think because of all the beauty ( mountains, ocean, forests, etc etc. plants, colors and so on) That there will be an infinite and endless more beauty and colors etc etc.
That however is my just musing on that verse...
but I still need to be clear.....
but I know whatever ever the future universe will be, based on what I already know of what God has created....
will be so much greater than even my imagination.... and I am soooooo glad!!! :)
|
|