fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,587
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Post by fearnot on Jan 23, 2020 14:26:26 GMT -5
Haha Once again, we were posting at the same time, but you got there first!!! So today's post is above your post Soooooo I will post it again, here:
Before I continue I want to add to one more Biblical quote about why we should not disregard any part or portion of the Bible, like Revelation etc.
[smear:#73b918]"1 The word of the Lord came to me: 2 “Son of man, speak to your people and say to them, If I bring the sword upon a land, and the people of the land take a man from among them, and make him their watchman, 3 and if he sees the sword coming upon the land and blows the trumpet and warns the people, 4 then if anyone who hears the sound of the trumpet does not take warning, and the sword comes and takes him away, his blood shall be upon his own head. 5 He heard the sound of the trumpet and did not take warning; his blood shall be upon himself. But if he had taken warning, he would have saved his life. 6 But if the watchman sees the sword coming and does not blow the trumpet, so that the people are not warned, and the sword comes and takes any one of them, that person is taken away in his iniquity, but his blood I will require at the watchman's hand." Ezekiel 33: 1-6 .[/smear:#128969:1]
And a kind of matching verse ( in my mind) is:
"[smear:#95439e]6 And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not alarmed, for this must take place, but the end is not yet. 7 For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be famines and earthquakes in various places.
8 All these are but the beginning of the birth pains. Matthew: 24: 6-8"[/smear:#29966a:1]
I see this as a part of spreading the gospel, something we are supposed to do:
[smear:#b43816]10 And the gospel must first be proclaimed to all nations. Mark 13:10[/smear:#348944:1]
[smear:#5f214e]13 Calling ten of his servants,he gave them ten minas, and said to them, ‘Engage in business until I come.’ Luke 19:13[/smear:#0a9057:1]
Tho the Luke verse seems to be about commerce, it also has to do with His servants increasing their ability to do 'good' [smear:#87970c] "10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them. Ephesians 2:10[/smear:#5e1976:1]
So the good works we are to do is to spread the good news of Jesus, and His forgiveness, eternal life etc. but also, time is running out and we are seeing ( as watchmen because we are Christians) end times sign increasing, and I think, to point them out to unbelievers, is part of giving them the 'truth'. Also in the Luke 19 verse, the "Til I come" seems to me to clearly point to Jesus returning. It is not just money we can use to spread the gospel, but any and all the talents God has given to each believer.
If you have more to add or corrections please do so.
In any case, I will go back now to the anti-Christ and the tribulation.
I think Daniel 12:1 makes it crystal clear, this will be the ultimate of horrors, like the world has never had nor ever will ( and the world has had already some horrific times in history!!!), as does Matthew 24: 21
[smear:#5c7e06]“At that time shall arise Michael, the great prince who has charge of your people. And there shall be a time of trouble, such as never has been since there was a nation till that time. But at that time your people shall be delivered, everyone whose name shall be found written in the book. Daniel 12:1[/smear:#9d0d6d:1]
[smear:#e6196b]"21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, and never will be". Matthew 24:21[/smear:#1c6c18:1]
And tho the anti-Christ, at first may 'SEEM' to be the answer to all the world's problems, and humans 'savior'.... he will in fact ( because he is indwelt by satan) be it's worse dictator, and will kill more humans than any dictator ever. Satan hates humans, he always has, but he is slick, sly, clever, and can appear as the most wonderful angel of light (if necessary to bring as many humans to Hell, as possible by his influence.....whatever way works.)
[smear:#1b443f]"14 And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light." 2 Corinthians: 11: 14[/smear:#c019e6:1]
This is just my own musing ( not in scripture as such) but I wonder if satan will give the anti-Christ a similar ability? We know the anti-Christ will in fact be able to do great signs and wonders.
Even those false christs, which are not THE anti-Christ, can produce great signs and wonders
"[smear:#cede1a]24 For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect. Matthew 24:24[/smear:#b919e6:1]
Why not throw in 'light'...as in an angel of light? After all satan was once, maybe the highest of all the angels, or at least, probably, one of the highest, and certainly of extreme beauty, talents etc.
Ezekiel gives us a bit of this angels beauty, talents etc before he rebelled:
[smear:#368522]“ 12 You were the signet of perfection, full of wisdom and perfect in beauty. 13 You were in Eden, the garden of God; every precious stone was your covering,....
On the day that you were created they were prepared. 14 You were an anointed guardian cherub. I placed you; you were on the holy mountain of God; in the midst of the stones of fire you walked. 15 You were blameless in your ways from the day you were created, till unrighteousness was found in you".
Ezekiel 28: 12-15[/smear:#914374:2]
My thoughts are, that perhaps when satan indwells the anti-Christ, he will for a time, be able to have some ( or a great deal) of this same beauty he once has.
( it will only be false...he is no longer blameless in his way, he is evil, full of hate, deceit, cruelty, madness, etc.)
And tho satan ( and thus the anti-Christ) hates all humans, satan has ( and always had), a 'special' hatred for Jews and Christians.
So more on that tomorrow.
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,587
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Post by fearnot on Jan 23, 2020 14:33:12 GMT -5
I actually did post the verse, but I guess I wrote it in such a way, that made it confusing.... because I stated the verse 'above' , but not again, below....
Here is what I wrote:
I think the 2nd half of Revelation 13:7 speaks to the anti-Christ have ( opps that should have been 'having") world wide power:
"And authority was given it over every tribe and people and language and nation,
Then I went on to explain:
"The 'it' in that verse is the 'beast'......kind of a strange name for a 'person' until you realize this person will be indwelt by satan ( a true terrifying 'beast')"
I think what I did not include was.... when I was talking about 'IT' of Revelation 13:7 being also a BEAST
( I did not explain what verse the word 'beast' came from)?
Is that what you meant?
I kind of didn't know how to include that info in the same sentence , without it being more of a run-on sentence ( more so than I often, or sometimes do :( ) Sooooo...
then
I wrote:
Some more information about this person/beast: and I gave scriptures where the anti-Christ is called a 'beast'
BUT.....
Maybe in that first part of what I wrote...
I should have just left out the 'beast' word, and
only mentioned it when I went on with other scriptures...yes?
I guess, I got ahead of myself. LOL
Also, thank you sooooooooooooo much for your encouragement! I still do not feel on solid ground as a 'teacher' maybe more as an assistant or a substitute teacher
But then, I forget that even some of my most favorite expositors of scripture like say Dr. John MacArthur....even he, after 50 plus years or so as a pastor/teacher still does not know everything and I 'think' we never will we may always be learning more.
Which reminds me, I always think I have heard finally, and at last everything about the first 3 chapters of Genesis and yet ( I am glad tho) there will always be more to learn about God's word For example I recently listened to R. C. Sproul
and he was preaching on man's free will verses, God's Sovereign will and how did that work with predestination?
I won't go into the whole sermon LOL
But he made a point, using the Garden of Eden He pointed out that God said:
[smear:#781579]16 And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, “You may surely eat of every tree of the garden, 17 but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.” Genesis 2:16[/smear:#1b8149:1]
God gave Adam and Eve 'free will' in verse 16, to choose whatever tree they might eat of
BUT..... it was a 'limited' free will....
Because of the 'but' in verse 17....we see the 'limited' part of their free will yes, they still could ( and did) choose to disobey....and they, and we all suffer the 'consequences'
So yes, there was a 'free will' of sorts, to choose rebellion but in another sense.... it was also a limited 'free' will .... because.... to choose to NOT obey ( the limitations put on their otherwise freedom) had 'consequences' that God's Sovereign will over rode their free will....
Consequences are not exactly 'free' they have a 'price' so that is not a free free ( my words not R. C....in fact I am only using my own words in trying to explain what he actually said)
I am sure I have not explained it as well as R. C. did but my point is that I yet, saw another aspect of those verses....yet again!!!
That was uplifting to me, we will never plumb the depths of scripture ever.....that was my real point.
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Post by Cindy on Jan 24, 2020 12:29:24 GMT -5
Before I continue I want to add to one more Biblical quote about why we should not disregard any part or portion of the Bible, like Revelation etc.
[smear:#73b918]"1 The word of the Lord came to me: 2 “Son of man, speak to your people and say to them, If I bring the sword upon a land, and the people of the land take a man from among them, and make him their watchman, 3 and if he sees the sword coming upon the land and blows the trumpet and warns the people, 4 then if anyone who hears the sound of the trumpet does not take warning, and the sword comes and takes him away, his blood shall be upon his own head. 5 He heard the sound of the trumpet and did not take warning; his blood shall be upon himself. But if he had taken warning, he would have saved his life. 6 But if the watchman sees the sword coming and does not blow the trumpet, so that the people are not warned, and the sword comes and takes any one of them, that person is taken away in his iniquity, but his blood I will require at the watchman's hand." Ezekiel 33: 1-6 .[/smear:#128969:1]
And a kind of matching verse ( in my mind) is:
"[smear:#95439e]6 And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not alarmed, for this must take place, but the end is not yet. 7 For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be famines and earthquakes in various places.
8 All these are but the beginning of the birth pains. Matthew: 24: 6-8"[/smear:#29966a:1]
I see this as a part of spreading the gospel, something we are supposed to do:
[smear:#b43816]10 And the gospel must first be proclaimed to all nations. Mark 13:10[/smear:#348944:1]
[smear:#5f214e]13 Calling ten of his servants,he gave them ten minas, and said to them, ‘Engage in business until I come.’ Luke 19:13[/smear:#0a9057:1]
Tho the Luke verse seems to be about commerce, it also has to do with His servants increasing their ability to do 'good' [smear:#87970c] "10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them. Ephesians 2:10[/smear:#5e1976:1]
So the good works we are to do is to spread the good news of Jesus, and His forgiveness, eternal life etc. but also, time is running out and we are seeing ( as watchmen because we are Christians) end times sign increasing, and I think, to point them out to unbelievers, is part of giving them the 'truth'. Also in the Luke 19 verse, the "Til I come" seems to me to clearly point to Jesus returning. It is not just money we can use to spread the gospel, but any and all the talents God has given to each believer.
If you have more to add or corrections please do so.
In any case, I will go back now to the anti-Christ and the tribulation.
I think Daniel 12:1 makes it crystal clear, this will be the ultimate of horrors, like the world has never had nor ever will ( and the world has had already some horrific times in history!!!), as does Matthew 24: 21
[smear:#5c7e06]“At that time shall arise Michael, the great prince who has charge of your people. And there shall be a time of trouble, such as never has been since there was a nation till that time. But at that time your people shall be delivered, everyone whose name shall be found written in the book. Daniel 12:1[/smear:#9d0d6d:1]
[smear:#e6196b]"21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, and never will be". Matthew 24:21[/smear:#1c6c18:1]
And tho the anti-Christ, at first may 'SEEM' to be the answer to all the world's problems, and humans 'savior'.... he will in fact ( because he is indwelt by satan) be it's worse dictator, and will kill more humans than any dictator ever. Satan hates humans, he always has, but he is slick, sly, clever, and can appear as the most wonderful angel of light (if necessary to bring as many humans to Hell, as possible by his influence.....whatever way works.)
[smear:#1b443f]"14 And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light." 2 Corinthians: 11: 14[/smear:#c019e6:1]
This is just my own musing ( not in scripture as such) but I wonder if satan will give the anti-Christ a similar ability? We know the anti-Christ will in fact be able to do great signs and wonders.
Even those false christs, which are not THE anti-Christ, can produce great signs and wonders
"[smear:#cede1a]24 For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect. Matthew 24:24[/smear:#b919e6:1]
Why not throw in 'light'...as in an angel of light? After all satan was once, maybe the highest of all the angels, or at least, probably, one of the highest, and certainly of extreme beauty, talents etc.
Ezekiel gives us a bit of this angels beauty, talents etc before he rebelled:
[smear:#368522]“ 12 You were the signet of perfection, full of wisdom and perfect in beauty. 13 You were in Eden, the garden of God; every precious stone was your covering,....
On the day that you were created they were prepared. 14 You were an anointed guardian cherub. I placed you; you were on the holy mountain of God; in the midst of the stones of fire you walked. 15 You were blameless in your ways from the day you were created, till unrighteousness was found in you".
Ezekiel 28: 12-15[/smear:#914374:2]
My thoughts are, that perhaps when satan indwells the anti-Christ, he will for a time, be able to have some ( or a great deal) of this same beauty he once has.
( it will only be false...he is no longer blameless in his way, he is evil, full of hate, deceit, cruelty, madness, etc.)
And tho satan ( and thus the anti-Christ) hates all humans, satan has ( and always had), a 'special' hatred for Jews and Christians.
So more on that tomorrow.
Good! Yes, we are to witness to others and share the Gospel, but that's not the only "good works" the Lord has planned for each of us, that's just one thing that we have all been commanded to do by Jesus Himself - to teach people about the Gospel and those who become saved we're to disciple so they can go out and do the same thing. While that is a "good work" in one way, it's not what the Lord is talking about in Ephesians 2:10. God saved us each individually, not as a group, and the good works He has planned in advance for each of us are also made for us each individually. Therefore the works He planned for me, may not be the same as the ones He planned for you. Now let's look at the following verses carefully: 2 Corinthians 9:8, Colossians 1:10–12, 2 Timothy 2:21, and 2 Timothy 3:16–17.
In the above scriptures we see that God wants us to abound in "every good work". This tells us that the "good works" He has planned for each of us is more then just one thing, as do the rest of the verses. The next one though also tells us that the good works we do causes us to "bear fruit" for God, and causes us to grow in the knowledge of God and to be strengthened so our endurance and patience will increase. To put it another way, by doing the good works the Lord has planned for us to do, we also grow in our faith and learn more about the Lord as well as becoming more like Him. Then the first one in 2 Timothy, in context, tells us that separation from the world and false teachers is a prerequisite for doing good works that have been prepared for us. The last scripture tells us that if we want to be thoroughly equipped to do those good works, we must then know God's Word. For it's through His Word that we are changed to be more like Him and that grows us in our faith and in our love for the Lord.
So what exactly are the good works the Lord has planned for us to do? There are so many things it's impossible to list them all. But it's easy to see the idea. Good works are works that help others, and especially those works that are done sacrificially. Let me give an example of that... say you have a friend that for some reason is having a hard time financially and they have no food in the house, and won't have money to get any for another week. Your friend tells you this, not expecting anything, but just telling you their troubles. You jump up, grab an empty grocery bags and start putting food from your cupboards, refrigerator, and freezer into them. Since you recently went shopping, you have plenty, but you realize that in order to feed your friend and her family for a week, it's going to leave you with very little....So what do you do? You could decide to divide your food in half, that way you would each at least have some food. Or, you could give your friend all the food they need, knowing the Lord will take care of you. Doing that would be giving sacrificially.
You said something I don't understand: This is just my own musing ( not in scripture as such) but I wonder if satan will give the anti-Christ a similar ability? What ability? Just above that you talked about Satan disguising himself as an angel of light, so did you mean that you wonder if the antichrist could do that too? But we already know he does that. The phrase, "disguising himself as an angel of light" isn't meant literally, it simply means that he makes himself seem to be a good guy, or in the case of the Church it means he appears to be saved and godly and not the evil person he really is. It's also saying that he makes his evil false teachings seem like they're the truth...he disguises them - or tries to. Or did you mean something else? Then you say later Even those false christs, which are not THE anti-Christ, can produce great signs and wonders ...Why not throw in 'light'...as in an angel of light? huh????? I'm sorry, but I have no idea what you're talking about.... Then at the end, you say, My thoughts are, that perhaps when satan indwells the anti-Christ, he will for a time, be able to have some ( or a great deal) of this same beauty he once has. but that doesn't say anything about "light". So still leaves me confused and wondering what all the stuff you said before was about... I actually did post the verse, but I guess I wrote it in such a way, that made it confusing.... because I stated the verse 'above' , but not again, below....
Here is what I wrote:
I think the 2nd half of Revelation 13:7 speaks to the anti-Christ have ( opps that should have been 'having") world wide power:
"And authority was given it over every tribe and people and language and nation,
Then I went on to explain:
"The 'it' in that verse is the 'beast'......kind of a strange name for a 'person' until you realize this person will be indwelt by satan ( a true terrifying 'beast')"
I think what I did not include was.... when I was talking about 'IT' of Revelation 13:7 being also a BEAST
( I did not explain what verse the word 'beast' came from)?
Is that what you meant?
I kind of didn't know how to include that info in the same sentence , without it being more of a run-on sentence ( more so than I often, or sometimes do :( ) Sooooo...
then
I wrote:
Some more information about this person/beast: and I gave scriptures where the anti-Christ is called a 'beast'
BUT.....
Maybe in that first part of what I wrote...
I should have just left out the 'beast' word, and
only mentioned it when I went on with other scriptures...yes?
I guess, I got ahead of myself. LOL
Also, thank you sooooooooooooo much for your encouragement! I still do not feel on solid ground as a 'teacher' maybe more as an assistant or a substitute teacher
But then, I forget that even some of my most favorite expositors of scripture like say Dr. John MacArthur....even he, after 50 plus years or so as a pastor/teacher still does not know everything and I 'think' we never will we may always be learning more.
Which reminds me, I always think I have heard finally, and at last everything about the first 3 chapters of Genesis and yet ( I am glad tho) there will always be more to learn about God's word For example I recently listened to R. C. Sproul
and he was preaching on man's free will verses, God's Sovereign will and how did that work with predestination?
I won't go into the whole sermon LOL
But he made a point, using the Garden of Eden He pointed out that God said:
[smear:#781579]16 And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, “You may surely eat of every tree of the garden, 17 but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.” Genesis 2:16[/smear:#1b8149:1]
God gave Adam and Eve 'free will' in verse 16, to choose whatever tree they might eat of
BUT..... it was a 'limited' free will....
Because of the 'but' in verse 17....we see the 'limited' part of their free will yes, they still could ( and did) choose to disobey....and they, and we all suffer the 'consequences'
So yes, there was a 'free will' of sorts, to choose rebellion but in another sense.... it was also a limited 'free' will .... because.... to choose to NOT obey ( the limitations put on their otherwise freedom) had 'consequences' that God's Sovereign will over rode their free will....
Consequences are not exactly 'free' they have a 'price' so that is not a free free ( my words not R. C....in fact I am only using my own words in trying to explain what he actually said)
I am sure I have not explained it as well as R. C. did but my point is that I yet, saw another aspect of those verses....yet again!!!
That was uplifting to me, we will never plumb the depths of scripture ever.....that was my real point.
I saw what you said about Revelation 13:7, that's not what you missed. You missed Rev 13:5-6.
Here's what you actually wrote, and my comments too:
Some more information about this person/beast: But what scripture is this one? (I know it's Revelation 13:6, but most people wouldn't have any idea and this would confuse them.)
5 And the beast was given a mouth uttering haughty and blasphemous words, and it was allowed to exercise authority for forty-two months. 6 It opened its mouth to utter blasphemies against God, blaspheming his name and his dwelling, that is, those who dwell in heaven.
Yes, I do see the numbers (5 and 6) before the verse, but that doesn't tell the average person anything. They won't understand what those numbers are for or what they go to. You have to include the whole "address" of scripture, not just part of it. So at the end of those verses you should have written, "Rev 13:5-6. "
It takes a long time to feel comfortable as a teacher. But eventually you will if you allow yourself to. Mainly feeling comfortable (although I'm not sure that's a good word for it) comes when we realize that it's really not us doing the teaching, it's the Holy Spirit. He's the one guiding us as to what to say (or write) and He's the one explaining what we've said to the other person(s).
Sounds like an interesting sermon!
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,587
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Post by fearnot on Jan 24, 2020 13:26:31 GMT -5
I think I forgot to mention that studying Revelation comes with a promised blessing: [smear:#8d081e] "Blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear, and who keep what is written in it, for the time is near". Revelation 1:3[/smear:#227a13:1]
I want to backtrack for just a moment back to the rapture. The Bible tells us:
[smear:#ad3607]"Therefore encourage one another with these words." I Thessalonians 4:18 [/smear:#0b3813:1]
So rather than avoid this, we are to encourage one another. Actually, one might want to reread that whole passage: Which is I Thessalonians 4: 13-18
But besides a blessing and encouragement, looking forward to the rapture, ought to also effect the way we live, since we do not know exactly when it will happen, it is an encouragement to continue in pursuing living in love, righteousness, holiness, letting God sanctify and purify us:
[smear:#970f7f]2 Beloved, we are God's children now, and what we will be has not yet appeared; but we know that when he appears we shall be like him, because we shall see him as he is. 3 And everyone who thus hopes in him purifies himself as he is pure". I John 3: 2, 3[/smear:#41810f:1]
Oh and as an aside of growing birth pangs: [smear:#0d3e4e] "7 For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8 All these are but the beginning of the birth pains. Matthew 24: 7,8[/smear:#5a720e:1]
This virus in China, that is resistant to antibiotics, and that they are 'trying' to contain, has already been found in now about 3 or 4 countries, including USA. This could be a bad plague, but we know more are coming and will be worse and worse.
OK back to the tribulation:
One of the strangely positive outcomes of the worst times ever in human history, will be that as the tribulation continues, more and more Jewish people will come to accept Jesus as their true Messiah.
However, make no mistake it will be the worse times ever as Jesus predicted: [smear:#2a6409] "21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, and never will be. 22 And if those days had not been cut short, no human being would be saved. But for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short." Matthew 24: 21, 22[/smear:#0a6699:1]
So back to the anti-Christ, his true character will be filled with a fierce wrath without compassion and ruthless and his being able to understand riddles, shows he is extremely intelligent ( but not for mankind's ultimate benefit, but rather the opposite).
[smear:#32e619]23 "And at the latter end of their kingdom, when the transgressors have reached their limit, a king of bold face, one who understands riddles, shall arise". Daniel 8: 23[/smear:#e61932:2]
More to his true character, goals and purposes:
[smear:#2e0c85]"24 His power shall be great—but not by his own power; and he shall cause fearful destruction and shall succeed in what he does, and destroy mighty men and the people who are the saints". Daniel 8: 24[/smear:#e6191d:1]
I think the fact that is great evil power will not be his own, points to his being indwelt by satan. And for awhile God will let him succeed ( but the anti-Christ/satan's time is limited).
I should probably point out, that I think these verses are like many in prophecy, that have a 2 fold fulfilling, one close to the time and one in the far future. So many commentators see the early fulfillment in Antiochus, who enthroned himself in the court of the Jerusalem temple ( more on the anti-Christ doing the same at a later time)
But both Antiochus and the anti-Christ had and will have similar arrogance, pride, egotists, self-centered etc. etc. etc. Pride was satan's downfall, he thought he could take on God's job. [smear:#216921] You said in your heart, ‘I will ascend to heaven; above the stars of God I will set my throne on high; I will sit on the mount of assembly in the far reaches of the north;[c] I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High.’ Isaiah 14: 13, 14[/smear:#e61929:2]
[smear:#167726]"25 By his cunning he shall make deceit prosper under his hand, and in his own mind he shall become great. Without warning he shall destroy many. And he shall even rise up against the Prince of princes, and he shall be broken—but by no human hand. Daniel 8: 25[/smear:#921063:2]
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,587
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Post by fearnot on Jan 24, 2020 13:50:02 GMT -5
See when I do my own musings, I often am confused or am confusing LOL
I agree with all the aspects of the anti-Christ you mentioned
No I was actually wondering if satan could somehow cause the anti-Christ to have some real light sort of a counterfeit 'light' like when Paul was converted on the road to Damascus, ( or the glory/light over the temple, or like appearing as an angel of 'light'
No doubt not worth wondering....I was just caught up in think how satan will try to counterfeit signs and miracles like Jesus did...he wants to be God and be worshiped.
Tho it seems like some of the false Christs either do some kind of 'signs' etc. that people 'believe'
Then again, people wanted Jesus when He feed them, and took aware their physical sickness etc.
but missed the True gift or True miracle.... salvation and ever lasting life with Him.
So even IF some of the signs were real by the anti-Christs and THE anti-Christ,
none of them would be saving grace....so what good would they be in the end.
I think, I should have just left that 'wondering' alone LOL
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,587
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Post by fearnot on Jan 25, 2020 14:51:55 GMT -5
I was listening to pastor J. D. Farag yesterday, and he was talking about the rapture, and how there were Old Testament examples and additionally, he mentioned 2 incidents that 'pointed' or were a picture or Typology of the Rapture, in a way. Or perhaps, they can be a reminder. I am not suggesting this is a perfect picture, but they really did seem to have some amazing similarities.
I will briefly mention one of the examples he gave, ( and I may not include all his points as I probably cannot remember them, However, I did think they were interesting.
One he mentioned was the Old Testament customs of getting married.
So when an old testament Jewish man saw a young woman he wanted to marry, he would approach the family with a contract with the price he was willing to pay. ( it would not be some cheap amount that would be disrespectful, she was worth a great deal )
It seems to me to point to the price Jesus paid for his bride ( believers). He paid the ultimate price, death on the cross.
But then the old testament young man would leave to go prepare a place for his bride, which seems to me, to point to Jesus saying:
"[smear:#a0328a]“Let not your hearts be troubled. Believe in God; believe also in me. 2 In my Father's house are many rooms. If it were not so, would I have told you that I go to prepare a place for you? 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and will take you to myself, that where I am you may be also". John 14: 1-3[/smear:#3eaa54:1]
Jesus went back to heaven, and said he would prepare a place for us, but then will come again and take us there so we can be with Him!
The Old Testament Jewish young man would build a lovely place attached to his Father's home, And stock it for the upcoming 7 days when he and his bride would have their honeymoon ( so to speak) time there.
That reminds me of being kept from the 7 years of the tribulation.
Oh and the groom did not just construct a shack, it could take a year or even two to build
and that reminds me that a day or year in our time could be a thousand in God's timing ( God's time is not necessarily like ours):
[smear:#1e6d50]8 "But do not overlook this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day". 2 Peter 3: 8[/smear:#771085:1]
However, what this meant for the bride, was she had to do a 'bit' of waiting!!!!
It's kind of funny in a way, the young man, might be tempted to build a 'nice' but modest dwelling, because he was so anxious to get his bride, therefore, it would be his father who would make the decision on when a proper place was prepared and thus we read even Jesus saying ( even tho He is God the Son) :)
[smear:#e66b19]"36 “But concerning that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father only". Matthew 24:36[/smear:#42e619:1]
But the fun part was when the groom would come 'steal' the bride away!! He or one of his young men with him would give a shout ( and maybe a trumpet blast)
And that sounds similar to the rapture!!
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,587
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Post by fearnot on Jan 26, 2020 11:06:09 GMT -5
Back to the beginning of the tribulation, and the one world leader, known as the Anti-Christ.
[smear:#8b1e2f]1 "Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to him, we ask you, brothers, 2 not to be quickly shaken in mind or alarmed, either by a spirit or a spoken word, or a letter seeming to be from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come.
3 Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, 4 who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God". 2 Thessalonians 2: 1-4[/smear:#50b10f:0]
I think verse three is key, and I often only used to noticed it says the man of lawlessness is revealed.... but first, it mentions rebellion comes first.
Tho mankind has always been in rebellion against the sovereign God of Creation, I think this will be an increase like never before ( on par with the days before the flood, but worse if such could be possible)?
This rebellion, will culminate itself in the anti-Christ, who will take his seat in God's temple and declare that he is God. And sadly millions will believe his lies, give him totally allegiance, and harden their hearts to the Truth and to the True God.
I think we are seeing much of this now, people are so in love with their sin, they are willing to do anything to keep it. They will suppress anyone who might disagree ( even if that person disagrees out of love for them and speaks in love and with tears).
Perhaps even more sadly, is what is going on in many of the churches.
I saw a video of a huge church in Australia where the 'chorus' ( if you could call it such) was supposedly singing a song about the Holy Spirit. They had on crazy costumes, and we singing 'Move it Move it' ( from the children's movie Madagascar) and ( in keeping with the movie), they did the shaking of their rumps to the congregation.
It was despicable, abominable, disrespecting to God....is this what they think church is about?
Oh it was 'modern' entertainment ( the song is quite 'catchy).....
but if they actually thought this was in honor of God.....I am at a loss.
But if part of the falling away, apostasy, or rebellion, is an abandonment, or a breach of faith, then it seems like we have slid way down the slippery slope.
I 'get' that churches want to draw in the unsaved, but when we start inviting the unsaved in by what pleases them, then you no longer have the gospel, sin, salvation, God, our Lord Jesus, the Bible etc. Instead, you have a children's movie theme song "Move it, Move it' paraded as the Holy Spirit shaking its rump in your face.....
And then there is this:
It reminded me of the church in our country which has decided to kick the 'old' members/believers out, because the church was not 'growing' and so, to lure in the young people and keep the church alive...
they asked to old people to go to a different church, but however the elderly should still cut the grass, do repairs etc. and of course to continue to give money.
Further, we have all many of churches now allowing woman preachers ( again, the thought is ,that church must keep up with the times, and culture), so many churches are now insisting if gays love each other and stay monogamous, they can and should be married in the church, and can also be preachers, etc etc.
Basically, falling away from Biblical doctrines, and even stating some doctrines, are not for our times, or saying those doctrines are flat out wrong, denying Christian/ Biblical truths.
And I have read and heard there are a growing number of pastors who are not even believers at all...apparently the money is good, the power is satisfying, or something?
"[smear:#b43922]4 For certain people have crept in unnoticed who long ago were designated for this condemnation, ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into sensuality and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ. Jude 1:4[/smear:#2b2b8b:1]
This reminds me of Cain and Able (the first two brothers in Genesis in the Bible)... both brothers offered a sacrifice to God....but only one brother offered the one that was acceptable.
Cain was furious, he wanted his to be excepted, he wantedto do it his way, not some narrow, mean, way!
After all, Able had to kill a lamb, Cain might have thought (?) his offer was soooo much kinder, he didn't kill his veggies/fruit he offered!! ( although he did not seem to mind killing a human, his brother).
[smear:#19e66b]"2 ...Now Abel was a keeper of sheep, and Cain a worker of the ground. 3 In the course of time Cain brought to the Lord an offering of the fruit of the ground, 4 and Abel also brought of the firstborn of his flock and of their fat portions. And the Lord had regard for Abel and his offering, 5 but for Cain and his offering he had no regard. So Cain was very angry, and his face fell. 6 The Lord said to Cain, “Why are you angry, and why has your face fallen? 7 If you do well, will you not be accepted? And if you do not do well, sin is crouching at the door. Its desire is contrary to you, but you must rule over it.”
8 Cain spoke to Abel his brother. And when they were in the field, Cain rose up against his brother Abel and killed him". Genesis 4: 2-8[/smear:#a82498:1]
Is this what Jesus wants??
However, I can guess satan was and is even more, well please at the inroads he has made in the churches... and soon it won't be hard at all, to declare he is God.
However, I think when the anti-Christ does sit in the temple and declare himself as God, it will be the start of the 2nd half of the tribulation ( known as the Great Tribulation when God wrath will be even worse than the first 3 1/2 years.
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Post by Cindy on Jan 27, 2020 10:36:13 GMT -5
I think I forgot to mention that studying Revelation comes with a promised blessing: [smear:#8d081e] "Blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear, and who keep what is written in it, for the time is near". Revelation 1:3[/smear:#227a13:1]
I want to backtrack for just a moment back to the rapture. The Bible tells us:
[smear:#ad3607]"Therefore encourage one another with these words." I Thessalonians 4:18 [/smear:#0b3813:1]
So rather than avoid this, we are to encourage one another. Actually, one might want to reread that whole passage: Which is I Thessalonians 4: 13-18
But besides a blessing and encouragement, looking forward to the rapture, ought to also effect the way we live, since we do not know exactly when it will happen, it is an encouragement to continue in pursuing living in love, righteousness, holiness, letting God sanctify and purify us:
[smear:#970f7f]2 Beloved, we are God's children now, and what we will be has not yet appeared; but we know that when he appears we shall be like him, because we shall see him as he is. 3 And everyone who thus hopes in him purifies himself as he is pure". I John 3: 2, 3[/smear:#41810f:1]
Oh and as an aside of growing birth pangs: [smear:#0d3e4e] "7 For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8 All these are but the beginning of the birth pains. Matthew 24: 7,8[/smear:#5a720e:1]
This virus in China, that is resistant to antibiotics, and that they are 'trying' to contain, has already been found in now about 3 or 4 countries, including USA. This could be a bad plague, but we know more are coming and will be worse and worse.
OK back to the tribulation:
One of the strangely positive outcomes of the worst times ever in human history, will be that as the tribulation continues, more and more Jewish people will come to accept Jesus as their true Messiah.
However, make no mistake it will be the worse times ever as Jesus predicted: [smear:#2a6409] "21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, and never will be. 22 And if those days had not been cut short, no human being would be saved. But for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short." Matthew 24: 21, 22[/smear:#0a6699:1]
So back to the anti-Christ, his true character will be filled with a fierce wrath without compassion and ruthless and his being able to understand riddles, shows he is extremely intelligent ( but not for mankind's ultimate benefit, but rather the opposite).
[smear:#32e619]23 "And at the latter end of their kingdom, when the transgressors have reached their limit, a king of bold face, one who understands riddles, shall arise". Daniel 8: 23[/smear:#e61932:2]
More to his true character, goals and purposes:
[smear:#2e0c85]"24 His power shall be great—but not by his own power; and he shall cause fearful destruction and shall succeed in what he does, and destroy mighty men and the people who are the saints". Daniel 8: 24[/smear:#e6191d:1]
I think the fact that is great evil power will not be his own, points to his being indwelt by satan. And for awhile God will let him succeed ( but the anti-Christ/satan's time is limited).
I should probably point out, that I think these verses are like many in prophecy, that have a 2 fold fulfilling, one close to the time and one in the far future. So many commentators see the early fulfillment in Antiochus, who enthroned himself in the court of the Jerusalem temple ( more on the anti-Christ doing the same at a later time)
But both Antiochus and the anti-Christ had and will have similar arrogance, pride, egotists, self-centered etc. etc. etc. Pride was satan's downfall, he thought he could take on God's job. [smear:#216921] You said in your heart, ‘I will ascend to heaven; above the stars of God I will set my throne on high; I will sit on the mount of assembly in the far reaches of the north;[c] I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High.’ Isaiah 14: 13, 14[/smear:#e61929:2]
[smear:#167726]"25 By his cunning he shall make deceit prosper under his hand, and in his own mind he shall become great. Without warning he shall destroy many. And he shall even rise up against the Prince of princes, and he shall be broken—but by no human hand. Daniel 8: 25[/smear:#921063:2]
Very good! See when I do my own musings, I often am confused or am confusing LOL
I agree with all the aspects of the anti-Christ you mentioned
No I was actually wondering if satan could somehow cause the anti-Christ to have some real light sort of a counterfeit 'light' like when Paul was converted on the road to Damascus, ( or the glory/light over the temple, or like appearing as an angel of 'light'
No doubt not worth wondering....I was just caught up in think how satan will try to counterfeit signs and miracles like Jesus did...he wants to be God and be worshiped.
Tho it seems like some of the false Christs either do some kind of 'signs' etc. that people 'believe'
Then again, people wanted Jesus when He feed them, and took aware their physical sickness etc.
but missed the True gift or True miracle.... salvation and ever lasting life with Him.
So even IF some of the signs were real by the anti-Christs and THE anti-Christ,
none of them would be saving grace....so what good would they be in the end.
I think, I should have just left that 'wondering' alone LOL Oh, ok, I think I understand what you mean about Satan giving the antichrist light then. I suppose it's possible. It wouldn't be "real" obviously, but might appear to be that way to the people watching. Why in the world would you say it probably isn't worth wondering? Why do you insist on cutting yourself down still? Especially when you know that the Lord doesn't like it when we do that because it's against His Word. If you wondered it, then it was worth wondering about! And not only that, but when we think about something, it's a guarantee that there's a lot of other people who have had the same thoughts! If I learned nothing else on our old board, I learned that for sure! But then by saying it's probably not worth wondering, you just told all the other people who wondered that, that they shouldn't have done so as it wasn't worth while. No, you should wonder all you want to. But when writing about it, after you finish your post, and before you post it, go back and read it again and see if you think it will make sense to someone who doesn't understand what you're talking about. Since I told you why I didn't understand it, (at least I think I did) do you understand why I didn't get what you were saying? The more you understand when someone doesn't understand what you're saying, the less likely you are to do it again.
I was listening to pastor J. D. Farag yesterday, and he was talking about the rapture, and how there were Old Testament examples and additionally, he mentioned 2 incidents that 'pointed' or were a picture or Typology of the Rapture, in a way. Or perhaps, they can be a reminder. I am not suggesting this is a perfect picture, but they really did seem to have some amazing similarities.
I will briefly mention one of the examples he gave, ( and I may not include all his points as I probably cannot remember them, However, I did think they were interesting.
One he mentioned was the Old Testament customs of getting married.
So when an old testament Jewish man saw a young woman he wanted to marry, he would approach the family with a contract with the price he was willing to pay. ( it would not be some cheap amount that would be disrespectful, she was worth a great deal )
It seems to me to point to the price Jesus paid for his bride ( believers). He paid the ultimate price, death on the cross.
But then the old testament young man would leave to go prepare a place for his bride, which seems to me, to point to Jesus saying:
"[smear:#a0328a]“Let not your hearts be troubled. Believe in God; believe also in me. 2 In my Father's house are many rooms. If it were not so, would I have told you that I go to prepare a place for you? 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and will take you to myself, that where I am you may be also". John 14: 1-3[/smear:#3eaa54:1]
Jesus went back to heaven, and said he would prepare a place for us, but then will come again and take us there so we can be with Him!
The Old Testament Jewish young man would build a lovely place attached to his Father's home, And stock it for the upcoming 7 days when he and his bride would have their honeymoon ( so to speak) time there.
That reminds me of being kept from the 7 years of the tribulation.
Oh and the groom did not just construct a shack, it could take a year or even two to build
and that reminds me that a day or year in our time could be a thousand in God's timing ( God's time is not necessarily like ours):
[smear:#1e6d50]8 "But do not overlook this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day". 2 Peter 3: 8[/smear:#771085:1]
However, what this meant for the bride, was she had to do a 'bit' of waiting!!!!
It's kind of funny in a way, the young man, might be tempted to build a 'nice' but modest dwelling, because he was so anxious to get his bride, therefore, it would be his father who would make the decision on when a proper place was prepared and thus we read even Jesus saying ( even tho He is God the Son) :)
[smear:#e66b19]"36 “But concerning that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father only". Matthew 24:36[/smear:#42e619:1]
But the fun part was when the groom would come 'steal' the bride away!! He or one of his young men with him would give a shout ( and maybe a trumpet blast)
And that sounds similar to the rapture!!
Interesting, thanks! But do be careful listening to him. I used to post his stuff on FH and did so for awhile, until I caught him saying things that weren't true. That's when I stopped.
Back to the beginning of the tribulation, and the one world leader, known as the Anti-Christ.
[smear:#8b1e2f]1 "Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to him, we ask you, brothers, 2 not to be quickly shaken in mind or alarmed, either by a spirit or a spoken word, or a letter seeming to be from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come.
3 Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, 4 who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God". 2 Thessalonians 2: 1-4[/smear:#50b10f:0]
I think verse three is key, and I often only used to noticed it says the man of lawlessness is revealed.... but first, it mentions rebellion comes first.
Tho mankind has always been in rebellion against the sovereign God of Creation, I think this will be an increase like never before ( on par with the days before the flood, but worse if such could be possible)?
This rebellion, will culminate itself in the anti-Christ, who will take his seat in God's temple and declare that he is God. And sadly millions will believe his lies, give him totally allegiance, and harden their hearts to the Truth and to the True God.
I think we are seeing much of this now, people are so in love with their sin, they are willing to do anything to keep it. They will suppress anyone who might disagree ( even if that person disagrees out of love for them and speaks in love and with tears).
Perhaps even more sadly, is what is going on in many of the churches.
I saw a video of a huge church in Australia where the 'chorus' ( if you could call it such) was supposedly singing a song about the Holy Spirit. They had on crazy costumes, and we singing 'Move it Move it' ( from the children's movie Madagascar) and ( in keeping with the movie), they did the shaking of their rumps to the congregation.
It was despicable, abominable, disrespecting to God....is this what they think church is about?
Oh it was 'modern' entertainment ( the song is quite 'catchy).....
but if they actually thought this was in honor of God.....I am at a loss.
But if part of the falling away, apostasy, or rebellion, is an abandonment, or a breach of faith, then it seems like we have slid way down the slippery slope.
I 'get' that churches want to draw in the unsaved, but when we start inviting the unsaved in by what pleases them, then you no longer have the gospel, sin, salvation, God, our Lord Jesus, the Bible etc. Instead, you have a children's movie theme song "Move it, Move it' paraded as the Holy Spirit shaking its rump in your face.....
And then there is this:
It reminded me of the church in our country which has decided to kick the 'old' members/believers out, because the church was not 'growing' and so, to lure in the young people and keep the church alive...
they asked to old people to go to a different church, but however the elderly should still cut the grass, do repairs etc. and of course to continue to give money.
Further, we have all many of churches now allowing woman preachers ( again, the thought is ,that church must keep up with the times, and culture), so many churches are now insisting if gays love each other and stay monogamous, they can and should be married in the church, and can also be preachers, etc etc.
Basically, falling away from Biblical doctrines, and even stating some doctrines, are not for our times, or saying those doctrines are flat out wrong, denying Christian/ Biblical truths.
And I have read and heard there are a growing number of pastors who are not even believers at all...apparently the money is good, the power is satisfying, or something?
"[smear:#b43922]4 For certain people have crept in unnoticed who long ago were designated for this condemnation, ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into sensuality and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ. Jude 1:4[/smear:#2b2b8b:1]
This reminds me of Cain and Able (the first two brothers in Genesis in the Bible)... both brothers offered a sacrifice to God....but only one brother offered the one that was acceptable.
Cain was furious, he wanted his to be excepted, he wantedto do it his way, not some narrow, mean, way!
After all, Able had to kill a lamb, Cain might have thought (?) his offer was soooo much kinder, he didn't kill his veggies/fruit he offered!! ( although he did not seem to mind killing a human, his brother).
[smear:#19e66b]"2 ...Now Abel was a keeper of sheep, and Cain a worker of the ground. 3 In the course of time Cain brought to the Lord an offering of the fruit of the ground, 4 and Abel also brought of the firstborn of his flock and of their fat portions. And the Lord had regard for Abel and his offering, 5 but for Cain and his offering he had no regard. So Cain was very angry, and his face fell. 6 The Lord said to Cain, “Why are you angry, and why has your face fallen? 7 If you do well, will you not be accepted? And if you do not do well, sin is crouching at the door. Its desire is contrary to you, but you must rule over it.”
8 Cain spoke to Abel his brother. And when they were in the field, Cain rose up against his brother Abel and killed him". Genesis 4: 2-8[/smear:#a82498:1]
Is this what Jesus wants??
However, I can guess satan was and is even more, well please at the inroads he has made in the churches... and soon it won't be hard at all, to declare he is God.
However, I think when the anti-Christ does sit in the temple and declare himself as God, it will be the start of the 2nd half of the tribulation ( known as the Great Tribulation when God wrath will be even worse than the first 3 1/2 years.
Awesome!
I do want to point out one thing though. You keep putting a space where it doesn't belong when you post a scripture and because of that, the board doesn't show what the scripture is when someone hovers over it. The first one is one that you wrote, and the 2nd is the right way: 2 Thessalonians 2: 1-4 2 Thessalonians 2:1-4 See the difference? There is no space after the chapter and colon, ok? This is fairly recent because you didn't use to do that. But now you know why the board isn't showing your scriptures.
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,587
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Post by fearnot on Jan 27, 2020 12:29:44 GMT -5
Aha! I think I am just a bit more tired when I do the space thing....I will make sure to pay much more attention and not do that. thanks for clearing up that mystery.
I always sort of go a little downhill health wise in the winter months....little or no going outside, sitting almost totally, eating more ( and not always good food) etc. and I am just in more pain, so I wasn't paying attention. Usually spell check alerts me to spelling errors ( tho not always) so that at least is not so bad.
Anyway, I will try to keep my eyes on extra verse spaces.
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,587
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Post by fearnot on Jan 27, 2020 13:44:34 GMT -5
[smear:#63e619]"Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the anti-Christ is coming, even now many antiChrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour". I John 2:18[/smear:#e63a19:1]
One of the things that stands out to me in this verse ( besides the fact that THE anti-Christ is coming) is that there have already been many what I think of as 'little' or 'mini' anti-Christs .... Which is not to say, they have not done grave and horrible deeds and some have killed millions of humans and so on.
But it points out to me we are in a spiritual war and basically have always been. Which is why God speaks of putting on the whole armor of God because we need them in spiritual battles.
[smear:#ad19e6]"13 Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand firm. 14 Stand therefore, having fastened on the belt of truth, and having put on the breastplate of righteousness, 15 and, as shoes for your feet, having put on the readiness given by the gospel of peace. 16 In all circumstances take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming darts of the evil one; 17 and take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God, 18 praying at all times in the Spirit, with all prayer and supplication. Ephesians 6:13-18[/smear:#2ab63b:1]
There is the endless battle between Truth and falsehood and lies. Between love and hate. Also between God's children and the devil/satan's children.
As believers it is not wrong to ask what time is it ? ( and tho we cannot know the exact day and hour of Jesus's return) we can know the 'season' so that When John says , in I John 2:18 it is 'the last hour'.... I think that means it is the end times, the 'season', where we know the end is near.
But scripture also says this: [smear:#e61942] "25 not neglecting to meet together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another, and all the more as you see the Day drawing near. Hebrews 10:25[/smear:#221e7a:1]
So we will be able to see signs the rapture and following tribulation is getting closer and closer.
And from a human perspective it might seem to be a very long end times, but from the perspective of eternity it is barely a drop in the ocean. Yes, it began in John's time, but it has increased in intensity ever since.
It is not so much a counting or duration of time, but more a type of time, with certain characteristics ever increasing.
In a way, all Christians from the beginning have been living in a type of end times, but at some point, ( every day is one day closer) we will come to the final end times..... and the anti-Christs will sort of end in a sense, because THE Anti-Christ will appear after the rapture.
We need to be on the alert, as good soldiers in a war, and take heed:
[smear:#6a8025]"13 Watch therefore, for you know neither the day nor the hour". Matthew 25:13[/smear:#e61932:1]
There are two way to look at the anti-Christ.....he tries to take the place of Jesus, and also is, actually, against Jesus.
He will be a highly intelligent man, and with great power:
[smear:#29a203]"9 The coming of the lawless one is by the activity of Satan with all power and false signs and wonders, 10 and with all wicked deception ..." 2 Thessanlonians 2:9,10[/smear:#c519e6:1]
[smear:#21456d]"24 His power shall be great—but not by his own power; and he shall cause fearful destruction and shall succeed in what he does, and destroy mighty men and the people who are the saints". Daniel 8:24[/smear:#a51022:1]
Tho this anti-Christ indwelt by satan, hates Jesus, he imitates our Lord, ( and always has really) God sows good seed, he sows tares:
[smear:#6bb824]24 "......The kingdom of heaven may be compared to a man who sowed good seed in his field, 25 but while his men were sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds..." Matthew 13:24,25[/smear:#bc3ac2:2]
God has children that do His will, and the devil has children that do his bidding, Jesus had apostles and satan has his false apostles and on and on it goes.
In a small way, I sort of see a type of this jealousy and rage in Cain and Able to some extent. Both wanted to be accepted 'warts' and all .....meaning their sins.....
They ( the devil and Cain) did not want to have to change, they wanted to be accepted and keep being 'who they were" meaning keeping their sin, and having that be accepted.
And so we see so many people today, saying: but this is just the way I am, I should not have to change, ( they may insist a Christian has to change, but they should not...)
they were born that way....whatever sin they wish to keep..... and actually, yes, perhaps they were born that way but for sure, we were ALL were born as sinners, but no its not OK.
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Post by Cindy on Jan 28, 2020 12:03:38 GMT -5
Aha! I think I am just a bit more tired when I do the space thing....I will make sure to pay much more attention and not do that. thanks for clearing up that mystery.
I always sort of go a little downhill health wise in the winter months....little or no going outside, sitting almost totally, eating more ( and not always good food) etc. and I am just in more pain, so I wasn't paying attention. Usually spell check alerts me to spelling errors ( tho not always) so that at least is not so bad.
Anyway, I will try to keep my eyes on extra verse spaces. It's not a big deal hon, but I figured you probably didn't realize you were doing it and thought you might have wondered why the board wasn't showing the scriptures on your posts as links, so wanted to let you know what was happening.
[smear:#63e619]"Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the anti-Christ is coming, even now many antiChrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour". I John 2:18[/smear:#e63a19:1]
One of the things that stands out to me in this verse ( besides the fact that THE anti-Christ is coming) is that there have already been many what I think of as 'little' or 'mini' anti-Christs .... Which is not to say, they have not done grave and horrible deeds and some have killed millions of humans and so on.
But it points out to me we are in a spiritual war and basically have always been. Which is why God speaks of putting on the whole armor of God because we need them in spiritual battles.
[smear:#ad19e6]"13 Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand firm. 14 Stand therefore, having fastened on the belt of truth, and having put on the breastplate of righteousness, 15 and, as shoes for your feet, having put on the readiness given by the gospel of peace. 16 In all circumstances take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming darts of the evil one; 17 and take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God, 18 praying at all times in the Spirit, with all prayer and supplication. Ephesians 6:13-18[/smear:#2ab63b:1]
There is the endless battle between Truth and falsehood and lies. Between love and hate. Also between God's children and the devil/satan's children.
As believers it is not wrong to ask what time is it ? ( and tho we cannot know the exact day and hour of Jesus's return) we can know the 'season' so that When John says , in I John 2:18 it is 'the last hour'.... I think that means it is the end times, the 'season', where we know the end is near.
But scripture also says this: [smear:#e61942] "25 not neglecting to meet together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another, and all the more as you see the Day drawing near. Hebrews 10:25[/smear:#221e7a:1]
So we will be able to see signs the rapture and following tribulation is getting closer and closer.
And from a human perspective it might seem to be a very long end times, but from the perspective of eternity it is barely a drop in the ocean. Yes, it began in John's time, but it has increased in intensity ever since.
It is not so much a counting or duration of time, but more a type of time, with certain characteristics ever increasing.
In a way, all Christians from the beginning have been living in a type of end times, but at some point, ( every day is one day closer) we will come to the final end times..... and the anti-Christs will sort of end in a sense, because THE Anti-Christ will appear after the rapture.
We need to be on the alert, as good soldiers in a war, and take heed:
[smear:#6a8025]"13 Watch therefore, for you know neither the day nor the hour". Matthew 25:13[/smear:#e61932:1]
There are two way to look at the anti-Christ.....he tries to take the place of Jesus, and also is, actually, against Jesus.
He will be a highly intelligent man, and with great power:
[smear:#29a203]"9 The coming of the lawless one is by the activity of Satan with all power and false signs and wonders, 10 and with all wicked deception ..." 2 Thessanlonians 2:9,10[/smear:#c519e6:1]
[smear:#21456d]"24 His power shall be great—but not by his own power; and he shall cause fearful destruction and shall succeed in what he does, and destroy mighty men and the people who are the saints". Daniel 8:24[/smear:#a51022:1]
Tho this anti-Christ indwelt by satan, hates Jesus, he imitates our Lord, ( and always has really) God sows good seed, he sows tares:
[smear:#6bb824]24 "......The kingdom of heaven may be compared to a man who sowed good seed in his field, 25 but while his men were sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds..." Matthew 13:24,25[/smear:#bc3ac2:2]
God has children that do His will, and the devil has children that do his bidding, Jesus had apostles and satan has his false apostles and on and on it goes.
In a small way, I sort of see a type of this jealousy and rage in Cain and Able to some extent. Both wanted to be accepted 'warts' and all .....meaning their sins.....
They ( the devil and Cain) did not want to have to change, they wanted to be accepted and keep being 'who they were" meaning keeping their sin, and having that be accepted.
And so we see so many people today, saying: but this is just the way I am, I should not have to change, ( they may insist a Christian has to change, but they should not...)
they were born that way....whatever sin they wish to keep..... and actually, yes, perhaps they were born that way but for sure, we were ALL were born as sinners, but no its not OK.
Excellent! Thinking about the idea that there are and have been many antichrists, has made me think about Hitler lately. In fact, I've been watching a lot of movies about Hitler and the concentration camps in various countries, and a lot of documentaries featuring survivors of the Holocaust. What's interesting to me is to see all that Hitler did because we can know for sure that he was in fact an AntiChrist. So looking at him and what he did, gives us a kind of template for what "The" AntiChrist will eventually do. (keeping in mind that the future AntiChrist will be much worse then anything Hitler ever dreamed of.)
So, should we look at those movies etc and get all depressed thinking about what's to come for the Jew's in the not so distant future? Absolutely not! Instead it should motivate us to pray for them now while we still can. God is not bound by time and our prayers don't have to be either. Even though the Tribulation hasn't begun yet, we can still pray for those who the AntiChrist is going to hate and persecute, and we can still pray for Jerusalem too. We need to pray for Jerusalem because the AntiChrist will conquer Israel and especially Jerusalem. We don't know how long he will hold it during Armageddon, but I suspect it won't be very long. Human beings won't free her, but Jesus will free Jerusalem and all of Israel at His return. What we most need to pray for however is not the physical safety of the Jews, but for the Lord to open their hearts and their minds to the Truth of the Gospel. Or another way I like to pray is to pray that God will keep them alive until they are saved.
What you said about people saying they shouldn't have to change is true. I've heard many people brag about the fact that "Jesus loves me just the way I am, and never made me change for Him." That alone is a sure sign that they were never saved at all. Jesus does accept us as we are, but He does so so that He can clean us up and we can be changed to be more like Him. That transformation takes place immediately at salvation and from then on it should be taking place regularly.
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,587
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Post by fearnot on Jan 28, 2020 13:30:50 GMT -5
I forget exactly where I saw a pastor or Bible teacher, point out yet another verse concerning how God looks at our time, that I have missed, so I will post it here, now:
[smear:#751c63]"4 For a thousand years in your sight are but as yesterday when it is past, or as a watch in the night". Psalm 90:4 [/smear:#206272:2]
I mention this because, I know there are unbelievers who can't help but scoff that we Christians are "still" thinking Jesus will return, they roll their eyes, and point out to us, that He has been gone over 2,000 years!!!
I really think, if someone were to have a conversation with some of them, and they did not know they were talking to a Christian ....
( the point is NOT to be deceptive......but rather, once they are told, and/or are aware they are speaking with a Christian, they almost immediately shut their ears)....and argue or scoff, at anything....just because!
but, if the conversation was about discussing advanced aliens, on millions of potential planets
(...not that I believe this to be true, I do not!!! other than, perhaps, fallen angels, who might pose as 'aliens') ,
in the universe,
and we discussed how time might actually be different ( or perhaps in an 'alternate' universe), many would have no problem with that concept, that time could actually BE different.
Instead they continue to scoff:
[smear:#77770e]"4 They will say, “Where is the promise of his coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all things are continuing as they were from the beginning of creation.” 2 Peter 3:4[/smear:#e619a4:1]
However, God is not limited by the physical time/dimension laws He set up for the universe. He exists outside of what He created. He is eternal, He has always existed and always will... time is not an issue for Him.
There are reasons why He delays ( even 2,000 plus years)
Here is one answer:
[smear:#751c86]9 "The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance. 10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a roar, and the heavenly bodies will be burned up and dissolved, and the earth and the works that are done on it will be exposed". 2 Peter 3:9,10[/smear:#e66319:1]
I just want to mention, that to the naysayers.....tho this latest corona virus out of Chinawhich might end up being a flash in the pan (so to speak)...... or NOT.....
We don't really know how this virus will turn out, but there is a chance it could become a pandemic. In any case, it seems to me, as one more of the increasing signs of pestilences (plagues, pandemic) ( I use that word because it is in some Bible versions and in those that do not use that exact word, it is included in the word used)
[smear:#185f48]10 Then he said to them, “Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. 11 There will be great earthquakes, and in various places famines and pestilences. And there will be terrors and great signs from heaven. Luke 21:10,11[/smear:#990719:0]
Well, back to the 'timing' of all these coming events etc. what we need to keep in mind is, God does not count time like humans do. He is God, and we simply can never understand that time is essentially meaningless to God...a billion years is like a second to Him... but its more than that.... He sees all the past and future, He is infinite and eternal.... there is simply no way we can even begin to understand 'eternal'
Time and matter are tied together, but God is spirit, and time did not exist until He created the universe. Time really has no relationship to God, only to us.
I keep on this, because those who scoff are limited finite humans, caught in time, so 2,000 years to them, seems to prove their scoffing as correct.... but they are sadly wrong.
Its funny in a way, I think for many, if I said, aliens had visited earth, and went away for 2,000 years, and are soon to come back and see how we have progressed, I think there were be those, who could understand that with no problem.... but when it comes to Jesus..... they assume only the weak minded Christian who needs a 'crutch' to live life would believe such foolishness in their eyes.
[smear:#178547]"18 For the word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. I corinthians 1:18[/smear:#bb37b0:3]
Now, back to the anti-Christ, He is called the man of lawlessness, because he opposes God's law. He truly wants to replace God and become a god.
[smear:#21e619]“12 How you are fallen from heaven, O Day Star, son of Dawn! How you are cut down to the ground, you who laid the nations low! 13 You said in your heart, ‘I will ascend to heaven; above the stars of God I will set my throne on high; I will sit on the mount of assembly in the far reaches of the north;[c] 14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High.’ 15 But you are brought down to Sheol,...." Isaiah 14:12-15[/smear:#e619e6:2]
Note the 5 "I will" arrogance, pride and sin Also note prIde and sIn have in the center "I"
So here is another example:
[smear:#2e6630]5 And the beast (anti-Christ) was given a mouth uttering haughty and blasphemous words, and it was allowed to exercise authority for forty-two months. 6 It opened its mouth to utter blasphemies against God, blaspheming his name and his dwelling, that is, those who dwell in heaven. Revelation13:5,6[/smear:#e61952:0]
And another:
"[smear:#2c6d2f]“Because your heart is proud, and you have said, ‘I am a god,...." Ezekiel 28:1[/smear:#e6a419:0]
By the way, the 42 months is the length of his reign.
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,587
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Post by fearnot on Jan 29, 2020 13:45:57 GMT -5
I think the anti-Christ's promised peace and safety during the tribulation will be a very short time!!
So that this verse could apply well because the people's of the earth will be so distraught and stressed that when the anti-Christ comes as a 'great' leader, and promises peace they people will be thrilled..... But......
[smear:#40266d]"3 While people are saying, “There is peace and security,” then sudden destruction will come upon them as labor pains come upon a pregnant woman, and they will not escape". I Thessalonians 5:3 [/smear:#e63219:2]
I think many religions might see the anti-Christ ( at first) ,as the savior they had been hoping and looking for:
The Jews are still waiting for the Messiah, Islam for the Twelfth Mahdi, Buddhism for the Fifth Buddha, Hindus for the Tenth Avatar and so on......
The anti-Christ will be so charismatic that he will in fact be able to bring all the religions under one umbrella! And the world will be so pleased. Have you not heard people complain that religion has cause more wars and deaths than anything? There is no doubt that there have indeed been religious wars ( satan has no concern about killing people for any reason, and he especially wants to see the deaths of the Jews and Christians).
Therefore people will also think if there is just ONE World religion, that too will guarantee peace! So what if each has to give a 'little', compromise a 'little' it would be for a great cause.
However, true believers, Christians cannot and will not.....because Christianity ( the 'true' Christian faith) is soooooo different from all the rest, there can never be any 'compromise....
just a few ways of such differences are: all other religions are what is called a 'work ethics' way to a salvation, God etc.... there are things one must do to work their way like: Buddhism requires following the Eightfold Path
Hindus need to be free from the cycle of reincarnation, by ridding themselves of bad karma ( doing good instead of bad)
Islam's 5 pillars but in the end Martyrdom in service to Allah is the only work guaranteed to save them and to go to Heaven.
etc.
But Christians know there is no 'good thing' they could do....Instead:
[smear:#549117]"but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us". Romans 5:8[/smear:#e61994:1]
No other religion has a empty tomb Etc.
[smear:#c74305]" He is not here, for he has risen, as he said. Come, see the place where he lay". Matthew 28:6[/smear:#63e619:1]
All in all the anti-Christ will institute a one world religion.....but everyone will soon see, it will not be voluntary and you may not keep your own religion ( especially not the Jews or Christians!!)
"When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the witness they had borne" Revelation 6:9
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,587
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Post by fearnot on Jan 30, 2020 13:57:43 GMT -5
People often think that the End Times, Rapture, and Tribulation are 'ONLY" in the book of Revelation, but in fact, many aspects are even in the old testament. But speaking of the book of Revelation, which does have many details of the Tribulation, this is a verse to consider when feeling leery of reading of studying it:
[smear:#246d50]"10 And he said to me, “Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time is near. 11 Let the evildoer still do evil, and the filthy still be filthy, and the righteous still do right, and the holy still be holy.” Revelation 22:10[/smear:#94058e:1]
I believe this is not a warning just for John, but for all believers.
Furthermore, there is even a blessing that comes with reading and studying it:
[smear:#551a8b]"3 Blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear, and who keep what is written in it, for the time is near". Revelation 1:3[/smear:#e63a19:0]
I am going to backtrack yet again, in a moment, but as to those who might say, for example that revelation is too hard, too symbolic etc. The Bible often tells us what the 'symbols' mean....if only we read on.
I will give just one quick example in Revelation 1:16
[smear:#beb00e]16 "....In his right hand he held seven stars...." Revelation 1:16[/smear:#184588:1]
See!!!!! one might say, what is that supposed to mean.....Jesus is holding 7 stars????? This is just tooooo hard to know what it is talking about
Oh! well, wait a minute, and read on.......verse 20 tells us exactly what it means:
[smear:#b65a07]"20 As for the mystery of the seven stars that you saw in my right hand, and the seven golden lampstands, the seven stars are the angels of the seven churches, and the seven lampstands are the seven churches". Revelation 1:20[/smear:#0d6a74:1]
One more thing about the anti-Christ is the 'mark of the beast' We really don't know yet what it will be for sure.
There is certainly the speculation it might be in a form of a computer chip and that is something that is set up and 'could' be implemented at any time. But there is more to it than just being able to buy or sell ( this is already starting to increase world wide)
Just an aside, there is a 'rumor' published in Dow Jones and The Wall Street Journal that amazon has in fact, submitted a filing for a 'scanning device of a user hand) for payment.....another step??? This payment by waving the hand, even if true, would NOT be the mark of the beast ( because there is no anti-Christ, and no worship aspect etc. .....but 'perhaps', another step?
"[smear:#a01785]Also it causes all, both small and great, both rich and poor, both free and slave, to be marked on the right hand or the forehead,..." Revelation 13:16[/smear:#e64d19:1]
But for sure God says this when the tribulation comes and the anti-Christ reigns:
[smear:#19e639]"....so that no one can buy or sell unless he has the mark, that is, the name of the beast or the number of its name". Revelation 13:17[/smear:#e61947:1]
There is the even more ominous and sadly spiritual aspect to accepting the mark...... the sealing of a person, so that, they can never be saved if they embrace whatever the mark is.....and 'worship' the anti-Christ. [smear:#669b16]
"11 And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever, and they have no rest, day or night, these worshipers of the beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name.” Revelation 14:11,12[/smear:#10425b:1]
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Post by Cindy on Jan 31, 2020 12:05:15 GMT -5
I forget exactly where I saw a pastor or Bible teacher, point out yet another verse concerning how God looks at our time, that I have missed, so I will post it here, now:
[smear:#751c63]"4 For a thousand years in your sight are but as yesterday when it is past, or as a watch in the night". Psalm 90:4 [/smear:#206272:2]
I mention this because, I know there are unbelievers who can't help but scoff that we Christians are "still" thinking Jesus will return, they roll their eyes, and point out to us, that He has been gone over 2,000 years!!!
I really think, if someone were to have a conversation with some of them, and they did not know they were talking to a Christian ....
( the point is NOT to be deceptive......but rather, once they are told, and/or are aware they are speaking with a Christian, they almost immediately shut their ears)....and argue or scoff, at anything....just because!
but, if the conversation was about discussing advanced aliens, on millions of potential planets
(...not that I believe this to be true, I do not!!! other than, perhaps, fallen angels, who might pose as 'aliens') ,
in the universe,
and we discussed how time might actually be different ( or perhaps in an 'alternate' universe), many would have no problem with that concept, that time could actually BE different.
Instead they continue to scoff:
[smear:#77770e]"4 They will say, “Where is the promise of his coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all things are continuing as they were from the beginning of creation.” 2 Peter 3:4[/smear:#e619a4:1]
However, God is not limited by the physical time/dimension laws He set up for the universe. He exists outside of what He created. He is eternal, He has always existed and always will... time is not an issue for Him.
There are reasons why He delays ( even 2,000 plus years)
Here is one answer:
[smear:#751c86]9 "The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance. 10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a roar, and the heavenly bodies will be burned up and dissolved, and the earth and the works that are done on it will be exposed". 2 Peter 3:9,10[/smear:#e66319:1]
I just want to mention, that to the naysayers.....tho this latest corona virus out of Chinawhich might end up being a flash in the pan (so to speak)...... or NOT.....
We don't really know how this virus will turn out, but there is a chance it could become a pandemic. In any case, it seems to me, as one more of the increasing signs of pestilences (plagues, pandemic) ( I use that word because it is in some Bible versions and in those that do not use that exact word, it is included in the word used)
[smear:#185f48]10 Then he said to them, “Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. 11 There will be great earthquakes, and in various places famines and pestilences. And there will be terrors and great signs from heaven. Luke 21:10,11[/smear:#990719:0]
Well, back to the 'timing' of all these coming events etc. what we need to keep in mind is, God does not count time like humans do. He is God, and we simply can never understand that time is essentially meaningless to God...a billion years is like a second to Him... but its more than that.... He sees all the past and future, He is infinite and eternal.... there is simply no way we can even begin to understand 'eternal'
Time and matter are tied together, but God is spirit, and time did not exist until He created the universe. Time really has no relationship to God, only to us.
I keep on this, because those who scoff are limited finite humans, caught in time, so 2,000 years to them, seems to prove their scoffing as correct.... but they are sadly wrong.
Its funny in a way, I think for many, if I said, aliens had visited earth, and went away for 2,000 years, and are soon to come back and see how we have progressed, I think there were be those, who could understand that with no problem.... but when it comes to Jesus..... they assume only the weak minded Christian who needs a 'crutch' to live life would believe such foolishness in their eyes.
[smear:#178547]"18 For the word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. I corinthians 1:18[/smear:#bb37b0:3]
Now, back to the anti-Christ, He is called the man of lawlessness, because he opposes God's law. He truly wants to replace God and become a god.
[smear:#21e619]“12 How you are fallen from heaven, O Day Star, son of Dawn! How you are cut down to the ground, you who laid the nations low! 13 You said in your heart, ‘I will ascend to heaven; above the stars of God I will set my throne on high; I will sit on the mount of assembly in the far reaches of the north;[c] 14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High.’ 15 But you are brought down to Sheol,...." Isaiah 14:12-15[/smear:#e619e6:2]
Note the 5 "I will" arrogance, pride and sin Also note prIde and sIn have in the center "I"
So here is another example:
[smear:#2e6630]5 And the beast (anti-Christ) was given a mouth uttering haughty and blasphemous words, and it was allowed to exercise authority for forty-two months. 6 It opened its mouth to utter blasphemies against God, blaspheming his name and his dwelling, that is, those who dwell in heaven. Revelation13:5,6[/smear:#e61952:0]
And another:
"[smear:#2c6d2f]“Because your heart is proud, and you have said, ‘I am a god,...." Ezekiel 28:1[/smear:#e6a419:0]
By the way, the 42 months is the length of his reign.
I'm so sorry! I replied to this but evidently never submitted my post! This was well done!
I think the anti-Christ's promised peace and safety during the tribulation will be a very short time!!
So that this verse could apply well because the people's of the earth will be so distraught and stressed that when the anti-Christ comes as a 'great' leader, and promises peace they people will be thrilled..... But......
[smear:#40266d]"3 While people are saying, “There is peace and security,” then sudden destruction will come upon them as labor pains come upon a pregnant woman, and they will not escape". I Thessalonians 5:3 [/smear:#e63219:2]
I think many religions might see the anti-Christ ( at first) ,as the savior they had been hoping and looking for:
The Jews are still waiting for the Messiah, Islam for the Twelfth Mahdi, Buddhism for the Fifth Buddha, Hindus for the Tenth Avatar and so on......
The anti-Christ will be so charismatic that he will in fact be able to bring all the religions under one umbrella! And the world will be so pleased. Have you not heard people complain that religion has cause more wars and deaths than anything? There is no doubt that there have indeed been religious wars ( satan has no concern about killing people for any reason, and he especially wants to see the deaths of the Jews and Christians).
Therefore people will also think if there is just ONE World religion, that too will guarantee peace! So what if each has to give a 'little', compromise a 'little' it would be for a great cause.
However, true believers, Christians cannot and will not.....because Christianity ( the 'true' Christian faith) is soooooo different from all the rest, there can never be any 'compromise....
just a few ways of such differences are: all other religions are what is called a 'work ethics' way to a salvation, God etc.... there are things one must do to work their way like: Buddhism requires following the Eightfold Path
Hindus need to be free from the cycle of reincarnation, by ridding themselves of bad karma ( doing good instead of bad)
Islam's 5 pillars but in the end Martyrdom in service to Allah is the only work guaranteed to save them and to go to Heaven.
etc.
But Christians know there is no 'good thing' they could do....Instead:
[smear:#549117]"but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us". Romans 5:8[/smear:#e61994:1]
No other religion has a empty tomb Etc.
[smear:#c74305]" He is not here, for he has risen, as he said. Come, see the place where he lay". Matthew 28:6[/smear:#63e619:1]
All in all the anti-Christ will institute a one world religion.....but everyone will soon see, it will not be voluntary and you may not keep your own religion ( especially not the Jews or Christians!!)
"When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the witness they had borne" Revelation 6:9
And I loved what you said above too!
People often think that the End Times, Rapture, and Tribulation are 'ONLY" in the book of Revelation, but in fact, many aspects are even in the old testament. But speaking of the book of Revelation, which does have many details of the Tribulation, this is a verse to consider when feeling leery of reading of studying it:
[smear:#246d50]"10 And he said to me, “Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time is near. 11 Let the evildoer still do evil, and the filthy still be filthy, and the righteous still do right, and the holy still be holy.” Revelation 22:10[/smear:#94058e:1]
I believe this is not a warning just for John, but for all believers.
Furthermore, there is even a blessing that comes with reading and studying it:
[smear:#551a8b]"3 Blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear, and who keep what is written in it, for the time is near". Revelation 1:3[/smear:#e63a19:0]
I am going to backtrack yet again, in a moment, but as to those who might say, for example that revelation is too hard, too symbolic etc. The Bible often tells us what the 'symbols' mean....if only we read on.
I will give just one quick example in Revelation 1:16
[smear:#beb00e]16 "....In his right hand he held seven stars...." Revelation 1:16[/smear:#184588:1]
See!!!!! one might say, what is that supposed to mean.....Jesus is holding 7 stars????? This is just tooooo hard to know what it is talking about
Oh! well, wait a minute, and read on.......verse 20 tells us exactly what it means:
[smear:#b65a07]"20 As for the mystery of the seven stars that you saw in my right hand, and the seven golden lampstands, the seven stars are the angels of the seven churches, and the seven lampstands are the seven churches". Revelation 1:20[/smear:#0d6a74:1]
One more thing about the anti-Christ is the 'mark of the beast' We really don't know yet what it will be for sure.
There is certainly the speculation it might be in a form of a computer chip and that is something that is set up and 'could' be implemented at any time. But there is more to it than just being able to buy or sell ( this is already starting to increase world wide)
Just an aside, there is a 'rumor' published in Dow Jones and The Wall Street Journal that amazon has in fact, submitted a filing for a 'scanning device of a user hand) for payment.....another step??? This payment by waving the hand, even if true, would NOT be the mark of the beast ( because there is no anti-Christ, and no worship aspect etc. .....but 'perhaps', another step?
"[smear:#a01785]Also it causes all, both small and great, both rich and poor, both free and slave, to be marked on the right hand or the forehead,..." Revelation 13:16[/smear:#e64d19:1]
But for sure God says this when the tribulation comes and the anti-Christ reigns:
[smear:#19e639]"....so that no one can buy or sell unless he has the mark, that is, the name of the beast or the number of its name". Revelation 13:17[/smear:#e61947:1]
There is the even more ominous and sadly spiritual aspect to accepting the mark...... the sealing of a person, so that, they can never be saved if they embrace whatever the mark is.....and 'worship' the anti-Christ. [smear:#669b16]
"11 And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever, and they have no rest, day or night, these worshipers of the beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name.” Revelation 14:11,12[/smear:#10425b:1]
Well done! Yes, when the actual mark of the beast comes, it won't be limited to simply buying things, but will also be admitting that you have made the AntiChrist your God. That's why there is no getting out of it once you willing accept that mark. Now, if someone is given the mark without their consent, that's another thing altogether as long as the person doesn't worship the antichrist or accept him as their God. This is also why it's silly for people to get all riled up over things like microchips. Until the AntiChrist is revealed and has demanded worship, there's nothing to worry about.
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,587
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Post by fearnot on Jan 31, 2020 13:26:45 GMT -5
Just a quick note, the China corona virus over 10,000 infected, and over 200 have died. Plus the WHO ( World Health Organization has declared it an international emergency). I guess we will just have to see if it will be a pandemic or not, but it just seems to me, as one more increase in the plagues as we continue getting closer and closer to the end times.
So yesterday, I mentioned a bit about Revelation, and why we should not avoid it. Today we will take a kind of brief summary/overview of the seals judgments and maybe tomorrow go into greater detail.
So having looked a little at the anti-Christ who turns up in chapter 6 of Revelation ( the first rider on a horse),
when Jesus ( also called the Lamb....one of His many names) begins by opening the seven seals....
And so we look at what is often called: the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse.
The first one we see is a white horse and it's rider ( the anti-Christ):
[smear:#24860a]"....behold, a white horse! And its rider had a bow, and a crown was given to him, and he came out conquering, and to conquer". Revelation 6:2[/smear:#e619a1:2]
Notice He 'conquers', but it is a peaceful ( at first) conquering, because although he has a bow, this verse does not mention his arrows, or his using them.....
Well, the next seal Jesus opened was way worse:
[smear:#e63119]"....another horse, bright red. Its rider was permitted to take peace from the earth, so that people should slay one another, and he was given a great sword". Revelation 6:4[/smear:#184e17:1]
This second horse and rider is war.... the 'peace' was short lived, and now people will slay ( kill) one another. I think this will be world wide killing
But the next adds to the misery ( as all the judgments get progressively worse)
[smear:#6b19e6]"behold, a black horse! And its rider had a pair of scales in his hand. 6 And I heard what seemed to be a voice in the midst of the four living creatures, saying, “A quart of wheat for a denarius, and three quarts of barley for a denarius, and do not harm the oil and wine!” Revelation 6:5,6[/smear:#299d21:1]
This will be world wide famine.
Onto the 4th seal
[smear:#114b44]".....he opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth living creature say, “Come!” 8 And I looked, and behold, a pale horse! And its rider's name was Death, and Hades followed him. And they were given authority over a fourth of the earth, to kill with sword and with famine and with pestilence and by wild beasts of the earth".Revelation 6:7,8[/smear:#97ad0a:1]
War and famine will certainly bring death.
The 5th seal:
" When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the witness they had borne. 10 They cried out with a loud voice, “O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before you will judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” 11 Then they were each given a white robe and told to rest a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brothers should be complete, who were to be killed as they themselves had been. Revelation 6:9-11
and the 6th
[smear:#72131a]"12 When he opened the sixth seal, I looked, and behold, there was a great earthquake, and the sun became black as sackcloth, the full moon became like blood, 13 and the stars of the sky fell to the earth as the fig tree sheds its winter fruit when shaken by a gale". Revelation 6:12,13[/smear:#4a8913:1]
I don't think I mentioned that the scroll with the seals, is the Title Deed to earth and that is why Jesus is the only one that could open the seals. Opening it will give the description of judgments of God...
and tho we do see all the signs getting progressively worse
Yet, if we go back to the beginning, ( of the tribulation) when the anti-Christ first comes, there will be a short amount of time, when there will be 'peace and safety'.... things may indeed 'seem' to be better ( and may even really be better for awhile). Because, this seemingly.....wonderful charismatic brilliant world leader, is going to 'halt' this terrible spiraling downward in our world today he will do it with great ideas to solve humanities problems and recreate a 'paradise' a utopia Or so he say and many many will believe).
I am reminded of ex president Obama's slogan: "yes we can!!!" and President Trump's: "Make America great again" Only I am thinking it will be more like: Yes, we the world can make our world great!!!"
His ideas will seem so great, that other world leaders will gladly give up much if not all their power, and unite under a one world government for the sake of peace, prosperity and safety.
Already, you can see many people are willing to give up 'borders' , for what they see as waaaay more serious problems like: the environment, plagues, quality of life, food, health, etc. etc.
And people who do not have God, are already 'worshiping' 'mother earth' Gaia..... climate change.environmentalism is a world wide way of unifying very diverse people.
But this peace, is going to be a big lie, people will be deceived, and fall into a santanic trap.
Also the anti-Christ is going to masterfully bring together the world religions ( a type of a religious ecumenism and/or a type of Syncretism) ...each will probably have to make concessions, give up some of their doctrines etc. but they will do so for the 'greater' benefit ( they think) of unity and peace.....peace at any cost will seem so worth it. Plus no one wants to be seen as intolerant, bigoted, hateful, etc. being inclusive and loving will be key....even over the truth There continue to be ( and growing in number) many interfaith councils in American trying to pull everybody together in some kind of a world wide global peace, love and unity. It will seem even Christ like But Jesus warned us:
[smear:#179745]"5 For many will come in my name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and they will lead many astray" Matthew 24:5[/smear:#be3316:2]
The anti-Christ will seem like the messiah, a Savior, who will not only bring a supposed world peace, but even religious peace.....NOT!!
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,587
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Post by fearnot on Feb 1, 2020 14:12:29 GMT -5
So I kind of think of Revelation chapter 6 ( which is the start of the Revelation) as : The Beginning of the End.
The believers, ( the church) has been raptured, and now God judgments begin.... Tho, when the anti-Christ first comes, it will seem to many of the people on earth, that finally finally world peace and safety will be achieved.
But not everything that 'seems' good, is in fact, good. I remember reading somewhere about some of the people who had won a LOT of money on some of these TV games. They were soooooo excited! Now all their troubles would be gone.... but that is NOT what actually happened ( and for some thing actually became so much worse)!!
So for a short time, certain aspects of the world might 'seem' like the anti-Christ is solving problems and will turn the world to a kind of paradise.....
However, neither his, nor most of the people's sins, will be touched at all....Pride, lust, self-centeredness, etc.
People will be saved as more and more 'wake-up' and as the judgments grow in severity ( God is still calling people to Himself).
We know even now, people want peace, but it seems right now ( as throughout history) it is very allusive ( people are sinners).
But finally the anti-Christ comes on the world stage:
[smear:#1c9917] "And I looked, and behold, a white horse! And its rider had a bow, and a crown was given to him, and he came out conquering, and to conquer. Revelation 6:2 [/smear:#1da4a1:1]
About that 'white' horse....white, often indicates righteousness, purity etc. So, I think he will be able to deceive many,
And I already mentioned at first, he conquers without bloodshed....not using arrows, but he does have authority and is offered a crown. He will seem like the real Jesus
However, Jesus had warned about this:
[smear:#e6195b]" 4 And Jesus answered them, “See that no one leads you astray. 5 For many will come in my name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and they will lead many astray". Matthew 24:4,5 [/smear:#1c19e6:1]
This 'peace' will be deceptive, and in fact God has said even in the old testament:
[smear:#422286] “There is no peace,” says the Lord, “for the wicked.” Isaiah 48:22[/smear:#e61937:1]
It also reminds me of this verse:
[smear:#bb712c]"Do not drag me off with the wicked, with the workers of evil, who speak peace with their neighbors while evil is in their hearts".
Psalm 28:3[/smear:#439a41:1]
There will never be any lasting peace without God.
Another clue that whatever kind of false peace that will seem to exist will not be very long, is because the first half of the tribulation is only for 3 1/2 years and the other judgments, before the GREAT tribulation ( the last 3 1/2 years) have to come during that first 3 1/2 years.
And we know there was 'peace' because the 2nd rider....takes it away:
[smear:#19e642]" And out came another horse, bright red. Its rider was permitted to take peace from the earth, so that people should slay one another, and he was given a great sword". Revelation 6:4[/smear:#e119e6:1]
Jesus had also said:
"For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom" Matthew 24:7..."
Note too, that the hoses's color is red, like blood or fire. Plus, a 'sword' makes it clear this is not anything but wars against one another. This is not just an isolated area, where two nations are fighting each other....it will be all over the world. Remember, that 'peace' is taken away from the earth.
I almost think the way our country is so divided right now, is a mini look at what will happen all over, and of course, one can even now, look at the world and see things like Israel, and the Arab nations, the Chinese and their neighbors, and on and on it goes.
But of course, after the rapture, there will be a short while of some 'peace' but whatever kind of peace that is, will be taken away!
The revelation 6 verse above says, men will slay one another....this will not be an occasional killing but violence will be all over the world.
More on this tomorrow, the anti-Christ etc..
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,587
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Post by fearnot on Feb 2, 2020 12:16:20 GMT -5
As I mentioned yesterday, the 'world peace' (whatever that means exactly, and may be combined with prosperity ) that the anti-Christ brings, quickly turns to war.
I mentioned yesterday, this was not a local one here and there, but rather global
[smear:#160942]"And out came another horse, bright red. Its rider was permitted to take peace from the earth, so that people should slay one another, and he was given a great sword". Revelation 6:4[/smear:#e61937:2]
From the earth, I am fairly sure does not mean it only between 2 or 3 countries, but rather is over the whole earth.
So the question is what is the anti-Christ position concerning this. Remember he will be indwelt by satan, and so deception and lies and evil is his true nature. But I think at first, since he made a peace treaty with Israel, he may continue for a time, to protect her ( but that is not his true plan).
And to keep his position as THE world leader ( dictator), when these wars break out, Ithink he will rapidly engage in massive war efforts.
I don't think I mentioned the anti-Christ will have a 'partner' a false prophet ( which may be the head of the one world religion, and insists the whole world worship the anti-Christ).
[smear:#638115]"And I saw, coming out of the mouth of the dragon and out of the mouth of the beast and out of the mouth of the false prophet" Revelation 15:13[/smear:#e119e6:0]
With world wide war, people are not producing or planting crops and bombs and fires etc. food supplies get destroyed world wide....and so ....famine is inevitable.
[smear:#11474e]"....a black horse! And its rider had a pair of scales in his hand. 6 And I heard what seemed to be a voice in the midst of the four living creatures, saying, “A quart of wheat for a denarius, and three quarts of barley for a denarius, and do not harm the oil and wine!” Revelation 6:5,6[/smear:#e63819:0]
When there is limited amount of food, then rationing will have to take place ( the scales indicate rationing). And notice its just the basics, bare staples to eat and it will be very costly at that!!
It is not surprising that war and famine will mean tremendous death and so comes the 4 th horse:
[smear:#144212]"a pale horse! And its rider's name was Death, and Hades followed him. And they were given authority over a fourth of the earth, to kill with sword and with famine and with pestilence and by wild beasts of the earth". Revelation 6:8 [/smear:#e61947:0]
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Post by Cindy on Feb 3, 2020 12:16:33 GMT -5
Just a quick note, the China corona virus over 10,000 infected, and over 200 have died. Plus the WHO ( World Health Organization has declared it an international emergency). I guess we will just have to see if it will be a pandemic or not, but it just seems to me, as one more increase in the plagues as we continue getting closer and closer to the end times.
So yesterday, I mentioned a bit about Revelation, and why we should not avoid it. Today we will take a kind of brief summary/overview of the seals judgments and maybe tomorrow go into greater detail.
So having looked a little at the anti-Christ who turns up in chapter 6 of Revelation ( the first rider on a horse),
when Jesus ( also called the Lamb....one of His many names) begins by opening the seven seals....
And so we look at what is often called: the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse.
The first one we see is a white horse and it's rider ( the anti-Christ):
[smear:#24860a]"....behold, a white horse! And its rider had a bow, and a crown was given to him, and he came out conquering, and to conquer". Revelation 6:2[/smear:#e619a1:2]
Notice He 'conquers', but it is a peaceful ( at first) conquering, because although he has a bow, this verse does not mention his arrows, or his using them.....
Well, the next seal Jesus opened was way worse:
[smear:#e63119]"....another horse, bright red. Its rider was permitted to take peace from the earth, so that people should slay one another, and he was given a great sword". Revelation 6:4[/smear:#184e17:1]
This second horse and rider is war.... the 'peace' was short lived, and now people will slay ( kill) one another. I think this will be world wide killing
But the next adds to the misery ( as all the judgments get progressively worse)
[smear:#6b19e6]"behold, a black horse! And its rider had a pair of scales in his hand. 6 And I heard what seemed to be a voice in the midst of the four living creatures, saying, “A quart of wheat for a denarius, and three quarts of barley for a denarius, and do not harm the oil and wine!” Revelation 6:5,6[/smear:#299d21:1]
This will be world wide famine.
Onto the 4th seal
[smear:#114b44]".....he opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth living creature say, “Come!” 8 And I looked, and behold, a pale horse! And its rider's name was Death, and Hades followed him. And they were given authority over a fourth of the earth, to kill with sword and with famine and with pestilence and by wild beasts of the earth".Revelation 6:7,8[/smear:#97ad0a:1]
War and famine will certainly bring death.
The 5th seal:
" When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the witness they had borne. 10 They cried out with a loud voice, “O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before you will judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” 11 Then they were each given a white robe and told to rest a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brothers should be complete, who were to be killed as they themselves had been. Revelation 6:9-11
and the 6th
[smear:#72131a]"12 When he opened the sixth seal, I looked, and behold, there was a great earthquake, and the sun became black as sackcloth, the full moon became like blood, 13 and the stars of the sky fell to the earth as the fig tree sheds its winter fruit when shaken by a gale". Revelation 6:12,13[/smear:#4a8913:1]
I don't think I mentioned that the scroll with the seals, is the Title Deed to earth and that is why Jesus is the only one that could open the seals. Opening it will give the description of judgments of God...
and tho we do see all the signs getting progressively worse
Yet, if we go back to the beginning, ( of the tribulation) when the anti-Christ first comes, there will be a short amount of time, when there will be 'peace and safety'.... things may indeed 'seem' to be better ( and may even really be better for awhile). Because, this seemingly.....wonderful charismatic brilliant world leader, is going to 'halt' this terrible spiraling downward in our world today he will do it with great ideas to solve humanities problems and recreate a 'paradise' a utopia Or so he say and many many will believe).
I am reminded of ex president Obama's slogan: "yes we can!!!" and President Trump's: "Make America great again" Only I am thinking it will be more like: Yes, we the world can make our world great!!!"
His ideas will seem so great, that other world leaders will gladly give up much if not all their power, and unite under a one world government for the sake of peace, prosperity and safety.
Already, you can see many people are willing to give up 'borders' , for what they see as waaaay more serious problems like: the environment, plagues, quality of life, food, health, etc. etc.
And people who do not have God, are already 'worshiping' 'mother earth' Gaia..... climate change.environmentalism is a world wide way of unifying very diverse people.
But this peace, is going to be a big lie, people will be deceived, and fall into a santanic trap.
Also the anti-Christ is going to masterfully bring together the world religions ( a type of a religious ecumenism and/or a type of Syncretism) ...each will probably have to make concessions, give up some of their doctrines etc. but they will do so for the 'greater' benefit ( they think) of unity and peace.....peace at any cost will seem so worth it. Plus no one wants to be seen as intolerant, bigoted, hateful, etc. being inclusive and loving will be key....even over the truth There continue to be ( and growing in number) many interfaith councils in American trying to pull everybody together in some kind of a world wide global peace, love and unity. It will seem even Christ like But Jesus warned us:
[smear:#179745]"5 For many will come in my name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and they will lead many astray" Matthew 24:5[/smear:#be3316:2]
The anti-Christ will seem like the messiah, a Savior, who will not only bring a supposed world peace, but even religious peace.....NOT!!
Good! But I'm not at all sure that there will be any time where there will be only peace and safety. I'm sure that is what the people will be desperately wanting, and that they will think that the AntiChrist can give it to them. He may be able to act as a diplomat and stop a war or prevent a war when he first comes on the scene, but then I'm sure war will then just break out somewhere else. It would have to because there will not be any real peace and safety until Jesus rules. So the safety the AntiChrist offers has got to be fake in some way. Perhaps he will get some countries to agree to stop fighting, but then others will begin to fight. Because too, Jesus said there would be wars and rumors of war, constantly.....
You said: "he will do it with great ideas to solve humanities problems and recreate a 'paradise' a utopia Or so he say and many many will believe." But I've never seen that in the Bible. I've only seen it in the movies. Seen from a human point of view, it's certainly possible, but the Bible doesn't say anything about that. Many people may think that he can do those kind of things, perhaps due to campaign lies like we usually get from politicians, but again I've seen nothing to indicate that he actually does any of them.
So I kind of think of Revelation chapter 6 ( which is the start of the Revelation) as : The Beginning of the End.
The believers, ( the church) has been raptured, and now God judgments begin.... Tho, when the anti-Christ first comes, it will seem to many of the people on earth, that finally finally world peace and safety will be achieved.
But not everything that 'seems' good, is in fact, good. I remember reading somewhere about some of the people who had won a LOT of money on some of these TV games. They were soooooo excited! Now all their troubles would be gone.... but that is NOT what actually happened ( and for some thing actually became so much worse)!!
So for a short time, certain aspects of the world might 'seem' like the anti-Christ is solving problems and will turn the world to a kind of paradise.....
However, neither his, nor most of the people's sins, will be touched at all....Pride, lust, self-centeredness, etc.
People will be saved as more and more 'wake-up' and as the judgments grow in severity ( God is still calling people to Himself).
We know even now, people want peace, but it seems right now ( as throughout history) it is very allusive ( people are sinners).
But finally the anti-Christ comes on the world stage:
[smear:#1c9917] "And I looked, and behold, a white horse! And its rider had a bow, and a crown was given to him, and he came out conquering, and to conquer. Revelation 6:2 [/smear:#1da4a1:1]
About that 'white' horse....white, often indicates righteousness, purity etc. So, I think he will be able to deceive many,
And I already mentioned at first, he conquers without bloodshed....not using arrows, but he does have authority and is offered a crown. He will seem like the real Jesus
However, Jesus had warned about this:
[smear:#e6195b]" 4 And Jesus answered them, “See that no one leads you astray. 5 For many will come in my name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and they will lead many astray". Matthew 24:4,5 [/smear:#1c19e6:1]
This 'peace' will be deceptive, and in fact God has said even in the old testament:
[smear:#422286] “There is no peace,” says the Lord, “for the wicked.” Isaiah 48:22[/smear:#e61937:1]
It also reminds me of this verse:
[smear:#bb712c]"Do not drag me off with the wicked, with the workers of evil, who speak peace with their neighbors while evil is in their hearts".
Psalm 28:3[/smear:#439a41:1]
There will never be any lasting peace without God.
Another clue that whatever kind of false peace that will seem to exist will not be very long, is because the first half of the tribulation is only for 3 1/2 years and the other judgments, before the GREAT tribulation ( the last 3 1/2 years) have to come during that first 3 1/2 years.
And we know there was 'peace' because the 2nd rider....takes it away:
[smear:#19e642]" And out came another horse, bright red. Its rider was permitted to take peace from the earth, so that people should slay one another, and he was given a great sword". Revelation 6:4[/smear:#e119e6:1]
Jesus had also said:
"For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom" Matthew 24:7..."
Note too, that the hoses's color is red, like blood or fire. Plus, a 'sword' makes it clear this is not anything but wars against one another. This is not just an isolated area, where two nations are fighting each other....it will be all over the world. Remember, that 'peace' is taken away from the earth.
I almost think the way our country is so divided right now, is a mini look at what will happen all over, and of course, one can even now, look at the world and see things like Israel, and the Arab nations, the Chinese and their neighbors, and on and on it goes.
But of course, after the rapture, there will be a short while of some 'peace' but whatever kind of peace that is, will be taken away!
The revelation 6 verse above says, men will slay one another....this will not be an occasional killing but violence will be all over the world.
More on this tomorrow, the anti-Christ etc..
Good! You said: "And we know there was 'peace' because the 2nd rider....takes it away:" but that's not necessarily true. As far as I know, there's never been a time where there's been no war anywhere on the planet. I don't see that changing either. People wouldn't be desperate for peace unless there's at least some war going on. Or, instead of actual war, it could be gangs running in the streets of the cities, even in our country. More likely though, I suspect that world politics may have gotten to the point of being in a "cold war". In other words, it may seem like a world war could break out any moment because things look so badly, and then the AC comes and finds a way to cool people off so that they aren't quite as trigger happy, making everyone happy. Perhaps it will involve Israel and the mid east. Then when the red horse comes, it all falls apart and instead of just a cold war, there's a real war happening.... Anyway, it could happen any number of ways. The problem with saying that we know there's peace, is that we can't really know that for sure. It's certainly a possibility that there's some kind of peace somewhere...but not everywhere. (just as there's some peace in places now, but not everywhere - although it's quite calm now compared to how it will be then.) “Then another horse came out, a fiery red one. Its rider was given power to take peace from the earth and to make men slay each other. To him was given a large sword.” (Revelation 6:4) Yet another way to look at this is that the rider is given the power to take peace from wherever he can find it on the earth. In other words, there will be some war somewhere on the planet, and cold war in other areas, and this rider will cause more outbreaks of actual war around the planet - possibly to the point of there being nowhere without war.
As I mentioned yesterday, the 'world peace' (whatever that means exactly, and may be combined with prosperity ) that the anti-Christ brings, quickly turns to war.
I mentioned yesterday, this was not a local one here and there, but rather global
[smear:#160942]"And out came another horse, bright red. Its rider was permitted to take peace from the earth, so that people should slay one another, and he was given a great sword". Revelation 6:4[/smear:#e61937:2]
From the earth, I am fairly sure does not mean it only between 2 or 3 countries, but rather is over the whole earth.
So the question is what is the anti-Christ position concerning this. Remember he will be indwelt by satan, and so deception and lies and evil is his true nature. But I think at first, since he made a peace treaty with Israel, he may continue for a time, to protect her ( but that is not his true plan).
And to keep his position as THE world leader ( dictator), when these wars break out, Ithink he will rapidly engage in massive war efforts.
I don't think I mentioned the anti-Christ will have a 'partner' a false prophet ( which may be the head of the one world religion, and insists the whole world worship the anti-Christ).
[smear:#638115]"And I saw, coming out of the mouth of the dragon and out of the mouth of the beast and out of the mouth of the false prophet" Revelation 15:13[/smear:#e119e6:0]
With world wide war, people are not producing or planting crops and bombs and fires etc. food supplies get destroyed world wide....and so ....famine is inevitable.
[smear:#11474e]"....a black horse! And its rider had a pair of scales in his hand. 6 And I heard what seemed to be a voice in the midst of the four living creatures, saying, “A quart of wheat for a denarius, and three quarts of barley for a denarius, and do not harm the oil and wine!” Revelation 6:5,6[/smear:#e63819:0]
When there is limited amount of food, then rationing will have to take place ( the scales indicate rationing). And notice its just the basics, bare staples to eat and it will be very costly at that!!
It is not surprising that war and famine will mean tremendous death and so comes the 4 th horse:
[smear:#144212]"a pale horse! And its rider's name was Death, and Hades followed him. And they were given authority over a fourth of the earth, to kill with sword and with famine and with pestilence and by wild beasts of the earth". Revelation 6:8 [/smear:#e61947:0]
Whoa lol. Yes, the AntiChrist will eventually be indwelt by Satan, but that doesn't happen until toward the end of the Tribulation. The treaty with Israel happens in the beginning of the Tribulation, because it's the signing of that treaty that actually marks the start of the Tribulation. “He will confirm a covenant with many for one ‘seven.’ In the middle of the ‘seven’ he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on a wing of the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him.”” (Daniel 9:27) When Israel crucified Christ, she was set aside and the “prophetic clock” stopped ticking. But when the Antichrist signs his pact with Israel, then the last 7 years of Daniel’s “seventy weeks” will start being fulfilled - the Tribulation or time of Jacob's Trouble, will begin. The AntiChrist is NOT indwelt by Satan when the Tribulation begins with the signing or confirming of the treaty. I like to call attention to the fact that it's not necessarily a signing or making a treaty that happens - although it could be; the Bible calls it "confirming" the treaty. Although he's not indwelt by Satan yet, the AntiChrist seems to be involved in a lot of what we may now consider New Age and/or Occult stuff, so there most likely are demons who do his bidding, and Satan himself may help him at times. He's definitely an evil man. As far as the treaty with Israel goes, Dan 9:27 which I posted, tells us that the AntiChrist will keep the treaty for 3 and a half years, and then, at the end of that time, when he IS indwelt by Satan, he will declare himself God and negate that treaty.
Yes, wherever you find war, you will find famine and disease following, and obviously, death; death from war, from famine, and from disease.
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,587
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Post by fearnot on Feb 3, 2020 13:02:30 GMT -5
True, I meant, that because he will be....indwelt by satan, he would be such an evil man, and lies and deception, would be a part of his character....but thank you for clarifying that!!!
Actually, I got the some kind of 'peace' for John MacArthur.....which goes to show even my most favorite pastor, bible teacher, etc etc. can get it wrong. Which I guess, is why, unless, I hear something way off, an occasional, error like the 'peace' issue that MacArthur said, I don't drop listening to him, but realize, no has it perfect. Some are outright false, and I would never listen to ( I could give a big list but won't).
But speaking of MacArthur...... he mentioned something in a sermon I was listening to last night, that kind of related to the end time. He was talking about the fruit of the Spirit ( seems like a strange topic ofr me to see end time in LOL)
But he was also talking about all the various sins and one verse he looked at was:
26 "For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; 27 and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.
28 And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done. 29 They were filled with all manner of unrighteousness, evil, covetousness, malice. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, maliciousness. They are gossips, 30 slanderers, haters of God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, 31 foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless. 32 Though they know God's righteous decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them.".
What really reminded me of the end times was two of the things he said concerning these verses.
He spoke about the 1960's when we had the 'sexual revolution" and the we had the 'homosexual revolution'
But what really struck me was he went onto say ( not exact quote) was that what follows next is a : 'debased' (depraved, non-functioning, a 'kind of insanity') mind... then MacArthur said....so we are at the place where we are not allowed to say a man is a man, and a woman is a woman..... And I would add we are also 'insanely' being told there are 100 plus different genders.
the other thing he mentioned was that tho this has happened before ( I am not giving exact quotes) that NEVER before have humans been able to spread sin globally thru the internet.....
Humanity never before had the internet in order to spread this insanity world wide. That reminded me of how these things are increasing in intensity!
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,587
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Post by fearnot on Feb 3, 2020 14:22:17 GMT -5
[smear:#34722e]"..a pale horse! And its rider's name was Death, and Hades followed him. And they were given authority over a fourth of the earth, to kill with sword and with famine and with pestilence and by wild beasts of the earth". Revelation 5:8[/smear:#c819e6:0]
So during the Tribulation, millions will die of war 1/4 of the world population ( be it men killing men on a battle field, or bombs etc.), also they will die because of famine. Diseases/pestilences
and one other way.....we maybe don't think a whole lot about, the fourth way many people will die, the..... 'wild beasts'.
I 'think' in the beginning when God made man to be a steward over the animals and earth....men and animals got along well....
"[smear:#e64a19]19 Now out of the ground the Lord God had formed every beast of the field and every bird of the heavens and brought them to the man to see what he would call them. And whatever the man called every living creature, that was its name. 20 The man gave names to all livestock and to the birds of the heavens and to every beast of the field". Genesis 2:19,20[/smear:#3fe619:0]
But then after the world wide flood that for sure changed dramatically:
[smear:#32376a]1 "And God blessed Noah and his sons and said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth. 2 The fear of you and he dread of you shall be upon every beast of the earth and upon every bird of the heavens, upon everything that creeps on the ground and all the fish of the sea. Into your hand they are delivered." Genesis 9:1,2[/smear:#750566:0]
I am thinking because, by and large, there was no more food crops etc. for man to eat, he would now for a long time, be making animals his main food source, animals quickly learned to dread the very man that used to take care of them....and that trust was lost.
I don't know if because we have almost instant new...world wide.... or if its in fact true but I personally, have been reading or seeing online what seems like more and more, animals attacking humans.....still that is just what seems to me to be increasing, mountain lion attacks, sharks, monkeys, wolves, cougars, snakes, crocodiles, elephants, rats, and so on.
Just a side note : ( I am a huge animal lover, always have been, dogs, cats, birds etc etc.)
but there is a good reason to keep cats as they are good 'ratters' ( and yes rats too can be cute and adorable as a pet)...
but......
they also killed about 1/3 of the European population in the 14th century due to the Bubonic plague ( well the fleas they carried).... and they have or can spread at least 35 other diseases and one other 'interesting side note.....if one could exterminated 95% of all the rats....they would replace themselves in less than one year!!
Anyway, concerning, death by wild animals during the tribulation
For sure, the wild animals will turn on man greatly during the tribulation.
The 5th seal shows the persecution the saints/believers are going thru
[smear:#533a66] 9...."the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the witness they had borne. 10 They cried out with a loud voice, “O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before you will judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” 11 Then they were each given a white robe and told to rest a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brothers should be complete, who were to be killed as they themselves had been". Revelation 6:9-11[/smear:#e66e19:0]
These people under the altar are those who have been persecuted and then martyred for their Christian faith.
This corresponds what Jesus said:
[smear:#b911b9]“Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and put you to death, and you will be hated by all nations for my name's sake". Matthew 24:9[/smear:#3fbe50:0]
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Post by Cindy on Feb 4, 2020 11:45:08 GMT -5
True, I meant, that because he will be....indwelt by satan, he would be such an evil man, and lies and deception, would be a part of his character....but thank you for clarifying that!!!
Actually, I got the some kind of 'peace' for John MacArthur.....which goes to show even my most favorite pastor, bible teacher, etc etc. can get it wrong. Which I guess, is why, unless, I hear something way off, an occasional, error like the 'peace' issue that MacArthur said, I don't drop listening to him, but realize, no has it perfect. Some are outright false, and I would never listen to ( I could give a big list but won't).
But speaking of MacArthur...... he mentioned something in a sermon I was listening to last night, that kind of related to the end time. He was talking about the fruit of the Spirit ( seems like a strange topic ofr me to see end time in LOL)
But he was also talking about all the various sins and one verse he looked at was:
26 "For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; 27 and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.
28 And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done. 29 They were filled with all manner of unrighteousness, evil, covetousness, malice. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, maliciousness. They are gossips, 30 slanderers, haters of God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, 31 foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless. 32 Though they know God's righteous decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them.".
What really reminded me of the end times was two of the things he said concerning these verses.
He spoke about the 1960's when we had the 'sexual revolution" and the we had the 'homosexual revolution'
But what really struck me was he went onto say ( not exact quote) was that what follows next is a : 'debased' (depraved, non-functioning, a 'kind of insanity') mind... then MacArthur said....so we are at the place where we are not allowed to say a man is a man, and a woman is a woman..... And I would add we are also 'insanely' being told there are 100 plus different genders.
the other thing he mentioned was that tho this has happened before ( I am not giving exact quotes) that NEVER before have humans been able to spread sin globally thru the internet.....
Humanity never before had the internet in order to spread this insanity world wide. That reminded me of how these things are increasing in intensity! Hon, when you reply to me without quoting what you're talking about, it's very hard for me to remember; so I have to scroll back to our last posts and search them and try and find whatever it is you're talking about to see what you said and then see what I said back to you before I can understand what you're saying now. I just had to do that again concerning "some kind of peace". I'm sorry but my memory has gotten really bad. Partly because I too fight with being groggy at times. You don't have to quote my whole post, but just do like I do, saying, "I said" and quoting what you said and then saying"you said" and then quote what I said. That way I'll know what you're talking about, ok? If you re-read what I said, I think you'll find that MacArthur isn't wrong and neither am I. We're both saying the same thing, just in different ways.
That's a very good point about sin spreading worldwide because of the internet. It reminds me of a scripture in Daniel. But I want to show it in several translations: NIV | Da 12:4“But you, Daniel, close up and seal the words of the scroll until the time of the end. Many will go here and there to increase knowledge.”” AV | Da 12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased. NET | Da 12:4 “But you, Daniel, close up these words and seal the book until the time of the end. Many will dash about, and knowledge will increase.” NASB95 | Da 12:4 “But as for you, Daniel, conceal these words and seal up the book until the end of time; many will go back and forth, and knowledge will increase.” This scripture tells us a great deal! I want to share parts of an article about the traditional view of this scripture and also share some other possible views about it. This article, of which I'm only posting excerpts, was written in November of 2012, so the numbers for today would have increased even more!
Any mother knows that as the birth of a baby approaches, the birth pangs increase two ways. They increase in frequency and intensity. Thus, Jesus was saying that the closer we get to the time of His return, the more frequent and intense the signs will become. There will be more earthquakes and more intense ones. Likewise things like famine, pestilence and war will increase in frequency and intensity. In mathematics this acceleration is called an "exponential curve." This term comes from what happens when rapid growth is plotted on a chart. When graphing the growth or decline of anything, the rate of change becomes exponential when it starts increasing or decreasing so fast that the plot line becomes vertical.
Now, the point is that the Bible indicates that the exponential curve will be one of the signs of the end times, and my thesis is that we are living in the midst of the exponential curve. Therefore, we are living in the end times.
Examples of the Curve
The 20th Century was the century of the exponential curve. Let's consider some examples.
1) Population — Demographers estimate that the population of the world at the time of Jesus was only 200 million.1 It took 1,650 years for the world's population to double! But thereafter it began to double very rapidly because the Industrial Revolution produced modern medicine, which, in turn, reduced infant mortality rates and increased longevity.
As the statistics below indicate, the rate of doubling has now reached exponential proportions.2 ...
2) Knowledge — Another area that is increasing exponentially is knowledge. The prophet Daniel was specifically told that knowledge would vastly increase in the end times (Daniel 12:4), and it has. In fact, we have become so overwhelmed with the flood of new information that it is difficult to find wisdom anymore, because wisdom comes from reflection on knowledge. It is estimated that 80% of all scientists who have ever lived are alive today. Every minute they add 2,000 pages to man's scientific knowledge, and the scientific material they produce every 24 hours would take one person five years to read.7 The scientific journals cannot publish all the academic articles that are being written. Many have to limit the articles to one page abstracts, and even then most articles are rejected for a lack of space.
Consider how rapidly knowledge is increasing: From Jesus to 1500 it doubled (1,500 years) 1500 to 1750 it doubled again (250 years) 1750 to 1900 it doubled again (150 years) 1900 to 1950 it doubled again (50 years) Today, knowledge is doubling every 12 months!
here are the links to that article in case someone wants to read it. I do want to caution you however. This is a good, godly pastor who loves the Lord, but he has unknowingly promoted some false teaching in the past. He did eventually repent of it when he was shown the truth though which is great. But as far as I know, he still does misunderstand some portions of God's Word: www.lamblion.us/2012/11/exponential-curve-sign-of-times.html www.lamblion.us/2012/11/exponential-curve-knowledge.html www.lamblion.us/2012/11/exponential-curve-computers-military.html www.lamblion.us/2012/11/exponential-curve-society-and-natural.html www.lamblion.us/2012/11/exponential-curve-economy-world.html www.lamblion.us/2012/11/exponential-curve-significance.html
Other possibilities concerning this scripture: The NET Bible suggests that the words, KJV “shall run to and fro”; NIV “will go here and there”; NET “Many will dash about” are probably an allusion to Amos 8:12. Let me post it in some context: ““The days are coming,” declares the Sovereign LORD, “when I will send a famine through the land— not a famine of food or a thirst for water, but a famine of hearing the words of the LORD. Men will stagger from sea to sea and wander from north to east, searching for the word of the LORD, but they will not find it.” (Amos 8:11–12) God's Word is our spiritual food and water. Without it we will starve and eventually die spiritually. Here's some more interesting speculations concerning Daniel 12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased. to and fro. The Hebrew word underlying “to and fro” (S#7751h) differs from another related Hebrew word only by the difference of “s” being read “sh.” This word is defined as “go” or “rove about,”, and “go eagerly, quickly, to and fro,”. If read “sh,” the word would be S#7750h, defined as “swerve, fall away, apostatize,” “those falling away to falsehood (Ps 40:5),” . Thus, one reading might support the usual view that there would be increased travel in the latter days. The alternative reading would suggest that apostasy would be rampant.
knowledge. An alternate reading suggests “calamities” or “wickedness” shall be increased, a reading supported by the LXX. The difference arises from the very slight difference between the Hebrew letters for “d” and “r,”, which are often confused. If “knowledge” is the correct reading, the reference might be either to the “knowledge explosion” of our day, or perhaps an increase of knowledge about Biblical prophecy. If the alternative readings “apostatize” and “wickedness” are correct, this passage becomes strikingly similar to the NT prophecies of Paul: “Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction.” (2 Thessalonians 2:3) “For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way.” (2 Thessalonians 2:7) “The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons.” (1 Timothy 4:1) and 2 Timothy 3:1-5.
Personally, I see both ways of viewing this scripture as correct and accurate.
[smear:#34722e]"..a pale horse! And its rider's name was Death, and Hades followed him. And they were given authority over a fourth of the earth, to kill with sword and with famine and with pestilence and by wild beasts of the earth". Revelation 5:8[/smear:#c819e6:0]
So during the Tribulation, millions will die of war 1/4 of the world population ( be it men killing men on a battle field, or bombs etc.), also they will die because of famine. Diseases/pestilences
and one other way.....we maybe don't think a whole lot about, the fourth way many people will die, the..... 'wild beasts'.
I 'think' in the beginning when God made man to be a steward over the animals and earth....men and animals got along well....
"[smear:#e64a19]19 Now out of the ground the Lord God had formed every beast of the field and every bird of the heavens and brought them to the man to see what he would call them. And whatever the man called every living creature, that was its name. 20 The man gave names to all livestock and to the birds of the heavens and to every beast of the field". Genesis 2:19,20[/smear:#3fe619:0]
But then after the world wide flood that for sure changed dramatically:
[smear:#32376a]1 "And God blessed Noah and his sons and said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth. 2 The fear of you and he dread of you shall be upon every beast of the earth and upon every bird of the heavens, upon everything that creeps on the ground and all the fish of the sea. Into your hand they are delivered." Genesis 9:1,2[/smear:#750566:0]
I am thinking because, by and large, there was no more food crops etc. for man to eat, he would now for a long time, be making animals his main food source, animals quickly learned to dread the very man that used to take care of them....and that trust was lost.
I don't know if because we have almost instant new...world wide.... or if its in fact true but I personally, have been reading or seeing online what seems like more and more, animals attacking humans.....still that is just what seems to me to be increasing, mountain lion attacks, sharks, monkeys, wolves, cougars, snakes, crocodiles, elephants, rats, and so on.
Just a side note : ( I am a huge animal lover, always have been, dogs, cats, birds etc etc.)
but there is a good reason to keep cats as they are good 'ratters' ( and yes rats too can be cute and adorable as a pet)...
but......
they also killed about 1/3 of the European population in the 14th century due to the Bubonic plague ( well the fleas they carried).... and they have or can spread at least 35 other diseases and one other 'interesting side note.....if one could exterminated 95% of all the rats....they would replace themselves in less than one year!!
Anyway, concerning, death by wild animals during the tribulation
For sure, the wild animals will turn on man greatly during the tribulation.
The 5th seal shows the persecution the saints/believers are going thru
[smear:#533a66] 9...."the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the witness they had borne. 10 They cried out with a loud voice, “O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before you will judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” 11 Then they were each given a white robe and told to rest a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brothers should be complete, who were to be killed as they themselves had been". Revelation 6:9-11[/smear:#e66e19:0]
These people under the altar are those who have been persecuted and then martyred for their Christian faith.
This corresponds what Jesus said:
[smear:#b911b9]“Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and put you to death, and you will be hated by all nations for my name's sake". Matthew 24:9[/smear:#3fbe50:0]
Good! yes, as you said, "So during the Tribulation, millions will die of war 1/4 of the world population". But actually many more then that will die from war. When Rev 5:8 says that, it's speaking of the wars leading up to Armageddon. Because in that last war, the war of Armageddon, many more millions will die, and most of them will be killed by our Lord Jesus Himself! Finally, ALL of God's enemies who are still alive when He returns with us with Him, He will kill! The last scripture I quote here gives a vivid description that lets us know just how many enemies there were/are:
“And I saw an angel standing in the sun, who cried in a loud voice to all the birds flying in midair, “Come, gather together for the great supper of God, so that you may eat the flesh of kings, generals, and mighty men, of horses and their riders, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, small and great.”” (Revelation 19:17–18) Revelation 14:14–18 and “The angel swung his sickle on the earth, gathered its grapes and threw them into the great winepress of God’s wrath. They were trampled in the winepress outside the city, and blood flowed out of the press, rising as high as the horses’ bridles for a distance of 1,600 stadia.” (Revelation 14:19–20) Pastor MacArthur and others estimate the blood being 4 to 4 and a half feet deep! Let me quote MacArthur for this next part though as it's mind boggling! Equally likely, if the battle occurs near the central valley of Israel, the tremendous volume & flow of blood could easily form troughs 4 ft. deep in some places & about 180 -200 miles long which is the approximate distance from Armageddon in the N of Palestine to Edom in the S. The great battle will rage across that entire area & even slightly beyond. This event clearly is described in Revelation 19:11–21. Ezekiel 39:8–16 may be describing the clean up. The MacArthur study Bible
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,587
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Post by fearnot on Feb 4, 2020 12:03:15 GMT -5
I will try to remember to be sure and quote you when I am replying to something you posted. :-)
Right, about the number of deaths, You wrote:
"yes, as you said, "So during the Tribulation, millions will die of war 1/4 of the world population". But actually many more then that will die from war".
I think the numbers will be a lot higher, as the Tribulation continues, especially into the second 3 1/2 years.
I can't even remember, but I 'think' (lol), I was thinking, early on (more or less), in the Tribulation, during the first 3 1/2 years.
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,587
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Post by fearnot on Feb 4, 2020 12:59:45 GMT -5
Concerning the death of Christians during the tribulation,
[smear:#030f9e]"When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the witness they had borne..." Revelation 6:9[/smear:#e6193f:2]
Even right now, today.... Christians are the most persecuted religious group world wide. There are just toooo many countries to list where it is life-threatening to be a Christian. Just to name a very few: Somalia North Korea Afghanistan Libya Pakistan Sudan Iran India Syria Nigeria Iraq Laos China and the list goes on and on, and on....
What is totally amazing to me, is many people in the US are under the impression that this cannot be true. They think Christians have it made and are the aggressors, but that is not the truth of the statistical facts.
And Jesus warned that Christians would be hated because of Him.
[smear:#237e11]18 “If the world hates you, know that it has hated me before it hated you. 19 If you were of the world, the world would love you as its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you". John 15:18,19[/smear:#e6193f:0]
In fact, I think that many young people today, would be almost.... anything...... but a Christian. They seem to have a huge built in dislike, distrust, and even hatred for anything Christian. It is a great target for their scorn, ridicule, and hatred..... yet.... at the same time they are under the impression that being a Christian is somehow being some kind of evil power, and ease, and easy.... yet, they find anything else more acceptable, but they don't see...that in their own small was they are being mini Christian persecutors.... and we are not in the Tribulation..... It will get sooooo much worse.... Where people will be:
[smear:#147688]"......drunk with the blood of the saints, the blood of the martyrs of Jesus" Revelation 17:6[/smear:#e67519:0]
What we are seeing today, is the increasing birth pangs and part of that is hatred toward Christians. Today people are standing with Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, etc. thinking they are the most persecuted..... but stand with Christians ( who are actually the most persecuted)....no never.
Nevertheless, even in the worst time period for Christians ( the tribulation), still many will be saved during the tribulation..... every day, will ( I think) be showing the truth of the Bible, Jesus, salvation, evil, sin etc.
For one thing, there will be an angel flying over the earth proclaiming the gospel:
[smear:#0d1f0a]"Then I saw another angel flying directly overhead, with an eternal gospel to proclaim to those who dwell on earth, to every nation and tribe and language and people. 7 And he said with a loud voice, “Fear God and give him glory, because the hour of his judgment has come, and worship him who made heaven and earth, the sea and the springs of water.” Revelation 14:6[/smear:#e619db:0]
In addition there will be 144,000 Jews, there will be 2 witnesses which will also be speaking the truth, so that many can be saved.
[smear:#74e619] "Then I looked, and behold, on Mount Zion stood the Lamb, and with him 144,000 who had his name and his Father's name written on their foreheads". Revelation 14:1[/smear:#07a69c:0]
[smear:#161130]"And I will grant authority to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for 1,260 days, clothed in sackcloth.” Revelation 11:3[/smear:#cae619:0]
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,587
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Post by fearnot on Feb 4, 2020 15:13:28 GMT -5
Speaking of plagues and end times, I just saw this as a headline to an article of Rapture Ready News:
4 Plagues Are Marching Across Asia Simultaneously:
1) Coronavirus, ( at the moment: 20,704 infected and 427 deaths) I think this number could be much higher, but this is what we are being told.
2) African Swine Fever,
3) H5N1 Bird Flu
And
4) H1N1 Swine Flu
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Post by Cindy on Feb 5, 2020 9:26:22 GMT -5
I will try to remember to be sure and quote you when I am replying to something you posted. :-)
Right, about the number of deaths, You wrote:
"yes, as you said, "So during the Tribulation, millions will die of war 1/4 of the world population". But actually many more then that will die from war".
I think the numbers will be a lot higher, as the Tribulation continues, especially into the second 3 1/2 years.
I can't even remember, but I 'think' (lol), I was thinking, early on (more or less), in the Tribulation, during the first 3 1/2 years.
Concerning the death of Christians during the tribulation,
[smear:#030f9e]"When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the witness they had borne..." Revelation 6:9[/smear:#e6193f:2]
Even right now, today.... Christians are the most persecuted religious group world wide. There are just toooo many countries to list where it is life-threatening to be a Christian. Just to name a very few: Somalia North Korea Afghanistan Libya Pakistan Sudan Iran India Syria Nigeria Iraq Laos China and the list goes on and on, and on....
What is totally amazing to me, is many people in the US are under the impression that this cannot be true. They think Christians have it made and are the aggressors, but that is not the truth of the statistical facts.
And Jesus warned that Christians would be hated because of Him.
[smear:#237e11]18 “If the world hates you, know that it has hated me before it hated you. 19 If you were of the world, the world would love you as its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you". John 15:18,19[/smear:#e6193f:0]
In fact, I think that many young people today, would be almost.... anything...... but a Christian. They seem to have a huge built in dislike, distrust, and even hatred for anything Christian. It is a great target for their scorn, ridicule, and hatred..... yet.... at the same time they are under the impression that being a Christian is somehow being some kind of evil power, and ease, and easy.... yet, they find anything else more acceptable, but they don't see...that in their own small was they are being mini Christian persecutors.... and we are not in the Tribulation..... It will get sooooo much worse.... Where people will be:
[smear:#147688]"......drunk with the blood of the saints, the blood of the martyrs of Jesus" Revelation 17:6[/smear:#e67519:0]
What we are seeing today, is the increasing birth pangs and part of that is hatred toward Christians. Today people are standing with Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, etc. thinking they are the most persecuted..... but stand with Christians ( who are actually the most persecuted)....no never.
Nevertheless, even in the worst time period for Christians ( the tribulation), still many will be saved during the tribulation..... every day, will ( I think) be showing the truth of the Bible, Jesus, salvation, evil, sin etc.
For one thing, there will be an angel flying over the earth proclaiming the gospel:
[smear:#0d1f0a]"Then I saw another angel flying directly overhead, with an eternal gospel to proclaim to those who dwell on earth, to every nation and tribe and language and people. 7 And he said with a loud voice, “Fear God and give him glory, because the hour of his judgment has come, and worship him who made heaven and earth, the sea and the springs of water.” Revelation 14:6[/smear:#e619db:0]
In addition there will be 144,000 Jews, there will be 2 witnesses which will also be speaking the truth, so that many can be saved.
[smear:#74e619] "Then I looked, and behold, on Mount Zion stood the Lamb, and with him 144,000 who had his name and his Father's name written on their foreheads". Revelation 14:1[/smear:#07a69c:0]
[smear:#161130]"And I will grant authority to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for 1,260 days, clothed in sackcloth.” Revelation 11:3[/smear:#cae619:0]
This (during the tribulation) is where we see a HUGE number of people being saved... “After this I looked and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and in front of the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands.” (Revelation 7:9)
These Christians will put our age of Grace to shame and show us for the lazy, disobedient Christians we have been. They will be the last people to be saved, but they will surely be among those most honored.
Speaking of plagues and end times, I just saw this as a headline to an article of Rapture Ready News:
4 Plagues Are Marching Across Asia Simultaneously:
1) Coronavirus, ( at the moment: 20,704 infected and 427 deaths) I think this number could be much higher, but this is what we are being told.
2) African Swine Fever,
3) H5N1 Bird Flu
And
4) H1N1 Swine Flu I'm surprised there's not more.
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,587
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Post by fearnot on Feb 5, 2020 11:47:49 GMT -5
I agree, there may be more plagues, but we just haven't heard about them....yet.
But this is also a news headline ( which seems to point to a famine?)
"360 Billion Locusts And Growing – A Plague Of ‘Biblical Proportions’ Is Destroying Crops Across The Middle East And Africa"
Note the of 'Biblical Proportions' in the headline!!
I read the swarms are 40 miles wide and can travel 93 miles in a day.
Note, there are maybe 8 billion humans to 360 billion locusts!! But here is the even worse news.....they multiply.....this number could continue to grow!!! And they can continue to spread!!!
These locusts right now are in Africa and the Middle East....
in fact:
" the government of Pakistan just declared a national emergency"
"Somalia’s agriculture ministry on Sunday called the outbreak a national emergency and major threat to the country’s fragile food security, saying the “uncommonly large” locust swarms are consuming huge amounts of crops".
The article I read about this was by Michael Snyder.
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,587
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Post by fearnot on Feb 5, 2020 12:37:46 GMT -5
Today is our once a month shopping day ( and tho I read and studied earlier....this study today here, will probably be shorter.
Yesterday I mentioned the persecution and killing of the Christian Martyrs during the tribulation which kind of went with the the red horse seal: [smear:#53e619] "......that people should slay one another...... Revelation 6:4[/smear:#e61989:0]
But do the people regret their murders ( that mean multiple murders....not just one) No they do not: [smear:#e619bd] "..... nor did they repent of their murders...." Revelation 9:21 [/smear:#19e61c:0]
These people will be killed because of the Word of God. They will be pointing out that what was happening was all predicted in the Bible, but many of the unsaved will not want to hear it, to the point they will actually commit murder.
[smear:#050f1a]"the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the witness they had borne" Revelation 6:9[/smear:#c80a1e:0]
These believers were not just pointing out that all this was predicted in the Bible but also salvation thru Jesus....and that He is coming again!! This will enrage many.....we see this happening in the world today as Christians are the most persecuted group in the world.
Many during the tribulation will be beheaded because of God's Word. [smear:#0e5e5a] "Also I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands". Revelation 20:4[/smear:#63b70d:0]
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,587
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Post by fearnot on Feb 6, 2020 10:35:43 GMT -5
Yesterday was a first, in that, a year ago Leonard had signed up for some 10 day trial on the net.
But.....they they put in a charge, and he called our bank and the company to get the charges reversed.
Well, what we did not know when we went shopping was.....the bank put a freeze on our account......( when we got back he called bank and got the freeze removed as well as the charge)
Sooooo today we will go shopping, so another day of studying this morning and a shorter one on here.
I do not know if this is true or not, but there is a screen shot that Taiwan posted that ( could be a conspiracy or....) showing an error concerning the numbers of people infected in China and the number of deaths.....being MUCH MUCH higher.......Chinese government said it was a human error.
Still, I continue to wonder if maybe they can't either actually test all the people due to supplies being limited and so on. I guess we will maybe find out at some point.
The supposed 'correct' numbers are now at: 28,353 infected and 565 deaths.
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,587
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Post by fearnot on Feb 6, 2020 11:42:13 GMT -5
Revelation 6:12-17 marks a change, because the Tribulations seals up to this point had to do with men themselves through war etc. bringing death, destruction etc.
But now, God's wrath begins.
[smear:#096648]'12 When he opened the sixth seal, I looked, and behold, there was a great earthquake, and the sun became black as sackcloth, the full moon became like blood, 13 and the stars of the sky fell to the earth as the fig tree sheds its winter fruit when shaken by a gale. 14 The sky vanished like a scroll that is being rolled up, and every mountain and island was removed from its place. 15 Then the kings of the earth and the great ones and the generals and the rich and the powerful, and everyone, slave and free, hid themselves in the caves and among the rocks of the mountains, 16 calling to the mountains and rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who is seated on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb, 17 for the great day of their wrath has come, and who can stand?” Revelation 6:12-17[/smear:#b53509:0]
Two things stand out to me at first, one is the earthquake......we have had lots of earthquakes, but this one during the Tribulation, has got to be the worst ever....and it does say, it will be great.
I think we have been seeing earthquakes getting stronger and it seems like more of the really big ones.....in any case, I don't think God would mention a normal earthquake during this time.
Back to this earthquake but the second thing is the 'fear' factor that is caused. People now finally seem to 'get' that this is from God....and they are extremely afraid knowing now:
[smear:#53a705]“30....The Lord will judge his people. 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God". Hebrews 10:30,31[/smear:#e619ca:0]
They are so terrified that they actually will try to hid to avoid God's judgment ( but seemingly not turn to Him)
[smear:#240b3f]"....hid themselves in the caves and among the rocks of the mountains, 16 calling to the mountains and rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who is seated on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb, 17 for the great day of their wrath has come, and who can stand?” Revelation 6:15-17[/smear:#e63d19:0]
And if they will not turn to the Lord and be saved, then they do need to fear God, as Jesus said: [smear:#68740e] "5 But I will warn you whom to fear: fear him who, after he has killed, has authority to cast into hell. Yes, I tell you, fear him"! Luke 12:5[/smear:#0b7076:0]
Further, Jesus said: [smear:#0e7740] " 26 people fainting with fear and with foreboding of what is coming on the world". Luke 21:[/smear:#e61981:0]
I think many people are getting a bit more uneasy, they are not totally awake, but in the back of their minds, they are 'hearing' of famines, and plagues, and fires, and earthquakes, etc etc etc.
I also think many who are over the age of 10 or 20, can look back, and say, (on many levels) things do seem to be increasing.
It is NOT 'just' that we are getting waaaaaaay more news, due to the internet, because that is certain ( and sometimes that in itself causes more anxiety) , but I really believe there is total truth that there are many unprecedented, never before, Biblical proportion of all manner of things ever increasing.
Some folks want to blame climate change, mankind, and other 'natural' ( or unnatural) causes, But the day is coming, when they will know ,that God will finally stop being patient and start His judgments.
And yet, even then, God has mercy, and many will be saved. In some ways, the tribulation as terrible as it will be, has a kind of 'blessing' in that many will finally wake up to the truth and be saved. I will try to look at the above verses a little closer tomorrow.
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