fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,470
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Post by fearnot on Dec 26, 2019 13:40:14 GMT -5
It was so funny that you mentioned
[smear:#1f9762]I Corinthians 15: 51-53
Behold! I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed. For this perishable body must put on the imperishable, and this mortal body must put on immortality"[/smear:#e61999:0]
Because that was something I studied yesterday....and was going to post on ( tho I have 2 or is it 3 now? other things I am in the 'middle' of LOL).
But now that you did post it, and I am sooooo...... not organized
( can I blame it on artistic temperament? ::) :P O_o ::)
Because I was also talking about the 'rapture' One thing this verse points out very clearly, is the rapture, will be very very fast! It also seems to me to be an exhortation to live godly lives, because the timing is unexpected:
Here is another rapture passage:
[smear:#e64a19]I Thessalonians 4: 15-18
" For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord. Therefore encourage one another with these words".[/smear:#322c95:0]
I haven't forgotten about how Jesus answered ( I am easily sidetracked) However, I want to start with v. 18 first ( kind of in a way following Jesus example.....sort of Taking the 'last' first....
When people say these things are best left alone ( end times, rapture, tribulation etc) verse 18 says that instead, we are to 'encourage' one another with such biblical topics God didn't put His 'light' to be hid under a barrel. If its in His Word, the Bible, its to be read, and studied, and to encourage one another.
What are some of the things we can encourage each other with by these things? Well, the dead will be resurrected and therefore all believers will be united in the future and we will be eternally with them and the Lord.
People might be confused by the 'trumpet', This is not one of the judgment trumpets that are sounded in Revelation, this is a trumpet of deliverance,
To me this trumpet, also signals the end of things going on as they always have....which is not to say, certain things will sort of seem the same ( the sun will still come up....but even the sun is heading for some never before changes) I guess what I mean, is the end really is about to begin....which sounds like an oxymoron the really really real end is to be set in motion with that trumpet and the rapture of the believers. The Christians who are alive ( and have not died) will not be the first, to met Jesus in the air. The first will be all the believers that have died. I can't remember who said it, but some Christian speculated that is going to be quite a sight.....all the graves throwing dirt in the air ( this is NOT what the Bible says....it was just speculation).
I am super tired today.....so hopefully I can write more tomorrow ( my pain level is very high today also).
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Post by Cindy on Dec 27, 2019 11:18:14 GMT -5
Yes you were absolutely right....I did mean, that I could think of how every invention of mankind has invented has, both 'good', helpful, etc. uses, but also they all can be used in a negative and/or even evil way.
yes, I agree, I do get to thinking and pondering, from time to time, about those things that scripture does not spell out ( tho a lot or most of scripture, is super clear, in no uncertain terminology)
Plus, having spent a lifetime with my nose in books, the wanna be writer in me, starts 'thinking', as I ponder scripture
Sometimes, that is a good thing, sometimes...not so much
But I need to be super clear, and say so.... when I am just 'wondering'.
Like God has said I Corinthians 2:9 " But, as it is written,
“What no eye has seen, nor ear heard, nor the heart of man imagined, what God has prepared for those who love him”
But I can 'know' (and then extrapolate in my thinking and pondering) from what He has already made for us on earth ( and this universe) that He has so lovingly provided so much beauty, love etc.
That I 'know' , it can only be a zillion times more beautiful, filled with love etc.
As an artist, I start 'thinking' ( God did not say this) but I think because of all the beauty ( mountains, ocean, forests, etc etc. plants, colors and so on) That there will be an infinite and endless more beauty and colors etc etc.
That however is my just musing on that verse...
but I still need to be clear.....
but I know whatever ever the future universe will be, based on what I already know of what God has created....
will be so much greater than even my imagination.... and I am soooooo glad!!! :) It was so funny that you mentioned
[smear:#1f9762]I Corinthians 15: 51-53
Behold! I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed. For this perishable body must put on the imperishable, and this mortal body must put on immortality"[/smear:#e61999:0]
Because that was something I studied yesterday....and was going to post on ( tho I have 2 or is it 3 now? other things I am in the 'middle' of LOL).
But now that you did post it, and I am sooooo...... not organized
( can I blame it on artistic temperament? ::) :P O_o ::)
Because I was also talking about the 'rapture' One thing this verse points out very clearly, is the rapture, will be very very fast! It also seems to me to be an exhortation to live godly lives, because the timing is unexpected:
Here is another rapture passage:
[smear:#e64a19]I Thessalonians 4: 15-18
" For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord. Therefore encourage one another with these words".[/smear:#322c95:0]
I haven't forgotten about how Jesus answered ( I am easily sidetracked) However, I want to start with v. 18 first ( kind of in a way following Jesus example.....sort of Taking the 'last' first....
When people say these things are best left alone ( end times, rapture, tribulation etc) verse 18 says that instead, we are to 'encourage' one another with such biblical topics God didn't put His 'light' to be hid under a barrel. If its in His Word, the Bible, its to be read, and studied, and to encourage one another.
What are some of the things we can encourage each other with by these things? Well, the dead will be resurrected and therefore all believers will be united in the future and we will be eternally with them and the Lord.
People might be confused by the 'trumpet', This is not one of the judgment trumpets that are sounded in Revelation, this is a trumpet of deliverance,
To me this trumpet, also signals the end of things going on as they always have....which is not to say, certain things will sort of seem the same ( the sun will still come up....but even the sun is heading for some never before changes) I guess what I mean, is the end really is about to begin....which sounds like an oxymoron the really really real end is to be set in motion with that trumpet and the rapture of the believers. The Christians who are alive ( and have not died) will not be the first, to met Jesus in the air. The first will be all the believers that have died. I can't remember who said it, but some Christian speculated that is going to be quite a sight.....all the graves throwing dirt in the air ( this is NOT what the Bible says....it was just speculation).
I am super tired today.....so hopefully I can write more tomorrow ( my pain level is very high today also).
Well said! I'm sorry you're hurting and tired today. I have to admit that I am too though. I've discovered something recently about why some pastors don't teach about the end times. I've always thought it was because they just didn't believe it or something like that, but I've come to find out that some do believe, but feel totally inadequate to teach about it. They just don't understand it. Some try to understand by reading books others people have written about what the Bible says about it. But then they run into the problem of discovering that different people say the Bible means different things and they don't know which is correct since they've never actually studied what the Bible says about it for themselves. They feel they don't have time to dig into it, and learn for themselves and so decide it doesn't really matter as long as they're doing the Lord's work till He comes. But part of the Lord's Work that He has assigned to pastors is to teach His Word....all of His Word. I think too that for some of the pastors anyway, that they've begun to doubt that the Holy Spirit can or will teach them the truth about the end times if they will let Him.
I admit that before i began to study it for myself, I put it off for several years because I too felt like I didn't have time for it as there was way too much that was more important in the Bible to learn. And that's where we've been taught wrong, and go wrong. There is no part of God's Word that isn't important or that can be ignored without being a detriment to us. It's all important because it's all from the Lord to us. If He didn't want us to know and understand something, He wouldn't have included it in His Word. Remembering how I was thinking before I began studying the end times in the Bible has helped me better understand how some pastors could come to that conclusion. I trust the Lord though, that He will guide them in His Word in His perfect timing.
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,470
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Post by fearnot on Dec 27, 2019 13:12:33 GMT -5
Briefly about Jesus answering the disciples in reverse order....
the conversation was about the destruction of the temple....which lead the apostles to ask about the time but instead, Jesus gives them the signs, and then, addresses the timing.
I think I was also, going to address further, 2 Timothy 3:2-5
"[smear:#963b10]For people will be lovers of self, lovers of money, proud, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, heartless, unappeasable, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not loving good, treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, having the appearance of godliness, but denying its power. Avoid such people."[/smear:#0ca60e:0]
These character traits are not new, but the intensity of these future people and their sins, is ever increasing, rebellious, fierce, dangerous, aggressive, wild, hostile, scary, depraved, savage, more and more violent, brutal, being bad, and ever getting worse etc.
And my thought ( tho not said here in scripture, I speculate more and more people will be demon possessed and evil).
They want to cast aside every moral restraint and be wild and 'free' ( actually they will be slaves of satan....my words).
In fact, it makes me think of how at one time, satan may have been the most beautiful of angels ( or at least one of them, and they all were beautiful) but now satan has become a monster ( tho he can still pull of looking like an angel of light, from time to time)....and so it seems, people are pulling off their 'make-up' so to speak, and showing that they too are horrific monsters ( unless born again by Jesus.....yet they still have to battle the monster within from time to time.....and we need to put on the whole armor of God because we are in the biggest warfare fare!!!)
I already looked at the first and 2nd degeneration of humans.....it begins with 'self'....lovers of self, which naturally leads to loving money. We become as satan promised ( at least in our own minds and heart) our own god.
And the strange thing is we hear it being taught....taught as a wonderful thing: "You need to love yourself...you need to be 'proud' of yourself...what we need is to see our own self worth and have self esteem etc.
But that is not what Jesus said, He said we need to humble ourselves, and deny ourselves, we even need to die to self, we need to find our identity in Jesus. [smear:#0f8f94] "I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me" Galatians 2:20[/smear:#d6c12b:0]
However, the world today does not want God ......and this list, is what the world is going to look like without Him ( and when believers are raptured tho many will become saved, these traits will hit their all time high).
I remember in the 60's the youth wanting to be 'free' was ( at least how I remember it) not nearly as violent as the rebels of today.....it seems like many of them don't even 'pretend' to be all about 'peace', and 'love' etc. like antifa for example...they are not about bell bottoms, smoking dope and singing songs they dress like soldiers, and are violent and getting more so ( this is what I see, my viewpoint). But they fit what these verses are talking about.
Perhaps tho the saddest thing about some of these traits is how they have snuck in and taken over many churches i.e. lovers of money and the 'prosperity' gospel!!
well many think that being rich gives them every right to boast!!! And let's look at that more tomorrow!
Do you remember, how in the past, I would have days when I would try to write on this Bible study forum, and I would continually be falling asleep? That is what is happening today. arrrgghh I thought it was gone HA!!
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,470
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Post by fearnot on Dec 28, 2019 15:10:28 GMT -5
I was thinking about these traits listed ( in 2 Timothy 3 ) and I wondered if, perhaps, satan has encouraged all of these traits
( often slowly and subtlety in the media, schools, books, magazines, even church) ,
so that, when the anti-Christ arrives, people will see him as the perfect savior of all their sins ( which are now considered to be 'rights'), and they will accept him with open arms.
There is a candidate running for President ( and no, I do not think he is the anti-Christ)
but he already is accepted with open arms as being gay, and stating that ALL drugs , or rather NO drug ( NOT ANY including crack etc.).... should be a reason for a jail sentence.....
and yes, his platform did get some 'astonishment' ( after all it's edgy, bold, perhaps even 'brave')....
In any case, he, nor his platform, did not really get the push back it would have 10, 20, 50 years ago .
I guess that lack of outrage, and even many people full acceptance of him, and of his platform ( there are other 'edgy' parts to it).... lead to ..... me wondering about this aspect of these traits listed in scripture.
But what would really be the outcome of any or all of these character traits? Eventually, loving and indulging self leads to: decadence, arrogance, self-serving, self-justifying, victim mentality, and then despair, violence, and chaos...
all leading up to people looking for a 'savior'... but NOT THE Savior ( Jesus) but rather one that will give then peace, from the chaos.... and allow them, to be able to keep doing their pet sins, but without any consequences. ( however, that is IMPOSSIBLE....sin always has consequences.... sooner.....or.....later).
So the next trait listed: proud and boastful are more apt to be strutting about, making sure everyone knows: how brilliant they are, what a hero they are, how they excel in everything
and generally trying to impress others with their superiority!! Of course, the underlying belief is others are below them!!
However, this contempt for everyone else, can be demonstrated in a quieter way ( and might even 'appear' as a humble soul) but in fact is equally contemptuous of others, and that would be the arrogant person ( kind of..... two side of the same coin).
A Biblical example is the Pharisee in Luke 18:11
[smear:#103864]"The Pharisee, standing by himself, prayed thus: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other men, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector".[/smear:#268c1f:0]
note: all the others are beneath him, he who is 'superior', to all of them (extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector....and I think he might have added an etc. (other types of people) to his list in his mind?)
Even those of us in the church are sometimes and/or are often, like this Pharisee ( I include myself)....
We tend to jump over the first part of James 4:10, and then we 'help' God, by exalting ourselves: [smear:#9c9c19] "Humble yourselves before the Lord, and he will exalt you".[/smear:#8719e6:0]
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,470
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Post by fearnot on Dec 29, 2019 17:54:30 GMT -5
[smear:#b32026]2 Timothy 3: 2-5
" For people will be lovers of self, lovers of money, proud, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, heartless, unappeasable, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not loving good, treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, having the appearance of godliness, but denying its power. Avoid such people". [/smear:#2ea945:1]
I have noticed that these all seem to go together: Because we love ourselves, we esteem money so we can lavish material items on ourselves, and for the 'power' it gives us.... which leads us to feeling pride... which leads to boasting Arrogance
Again while thinking on the ever incrementalism of these traits: I know some might say, well just look at recent history....everything is as it ever was, and to a 'degree' that is true...... but its in the 'degree' that lies the difference!
For sure the roaring 20's were 'scandalous' in dress and dancing etc. but nothing compared to the 1960's and even the 60's were tame, compared to the streetwalker outfits of today ( even on children age 5 years old), and the sexually explicit dancing... waay more than the Charleston ( but of course the Charleston was a rebellion against the waltz which it replaced.)
Just a quick history search of some images of the outfits and/or dances will show immediately how such things have degraded over the years into more and more rebellious sin....
It is not so much that dance itself is sinful, but it is the rebellion it symbolizes.
Next, abusive behavior has increased as well from swearing and Blasphemy which are totally 'normal' today ( but were not in the 20's)
Having a wicked tongue that curses, using denigrating insults, etc. is considered 'cool' today and it has increased in leaps and bounds!!!
In the past some men would swear regularly, other men, on occasion, but woman.... almost never would swear in the past!! Now.... many many woman swear equally with most men..... this is not a step up, but rather a big step down.
[smear:#1f446f]" But what comes out of the mouth proceeds from the heart, and this defiles a person." Matthew 5:18[/smear:#bea40d:0]
In some ways the next one in the list, stands out sooooo much. Its not that there have never been children who were disobedient to their parents in the past, but I truly believe its never been so massive as in these days!!
satan ( I think) has really picked this as a pet project, to further his hatred of humans, and his plans to take as many to Hell. so since, self-love is a dominate theme that is being mass taught in our culture, and if children are just into loving self....then... they do not love or respect parents.
The kids often see parents only as a means to get whatever material items they want, but there is no grateful attitude accompanying a parent who sacrifices to try and fulfill their child's endless and bottomless demands for more, more and more stuff. They use their parents and throw a fit if they do not get everything they want, when they want it.
Not only are they not grateful, the are downright disrespectful and disobedient. However, this disobedience extends to anyone they think of as having authority ( police, teachers etc.)
But I think the devil especially like to use these kids and teach them to be self-center brats and thumb their noses at God's 5th commandment:
[smear:#ac2693]"12 “Honor your father and your mother....." Exodus 20:12[/smear:#21a87f:2]
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,470
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Post by fearnot on Dec 30, 2019 12:23:00 GMT -5
[smear:#e6199b] 2 Timothy 3: 2-5
" For people will be lovers of self, lovers of money, proud, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, heartless, unappeasable, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not loving good, treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, having the appearance of godliness, but denying its power. Avoid such people". [/smear:#118679:0]
I suspect that this Christ-mas was a good example of many of these traits on display. Children not grateful for the gifts they received ( Instead they wanted bigger, better, a different brand), an attitude of: is that ALL??? I deserve MORE!! You owe it to me!
There probably was little to no real meaning of Christ-mas in many homes. And in years past, I do think, there was more gratefulness in peoples hearts, but ungratefulness, like all the signs of end times has grown.
It is because more and more hearts have turned away from God, it total rebellion.
One of the tools satan uses that was never in any culture etc. past history....is technology. TV, movies, videos, music, internet, magazines etc etc. all promote the: Love yourself theory. Find your inner god, respect yourself, you can be whatever you want to be, you are special, you deserve it, you are a victim and deserve better, etc etc etc.
As with all of these character traits, the next one goes with all the ones before it: "Unholy"
Ungrateful people don't find anything holy! to people, since nothing is 'holy' . there is nothing decent, no shame or modesty, etc. in fact, those things are seen as uptight, rigid, not free, phobias, and so on.
But lewd and lust etc. is NOT love and is almost always 'heartless' ( because it is not about the other person but self-gratification.
Of course, heartless effects all types relationships: men abusing men, woman, children, animals.... woman abusing woman, children, animals and in some cases men, Children abusing children, animals, and adults if possible.
It's all about 'ME'!!! When it's all about ME.....there is not place or room to love 'others".
Just one example is the sky rocketing amount of divorce today....again it all about me: The idea that: "you....no longer meet MY needs" is prevalent ( you are no longer pretty, or you don't make enough money for me, etc.)
And little or no thought is given to the children, which go from pillar to post and so they become bitter, angry, and focus on themselves also.
But even worse, parents are doing unspeakable evil to children today, so much torture and murder ( it is true pagan people used to sacrifice their children to molech...but no where near the numbers that are killed today!!!
God made it clear right from the beginning, that family was a special unit that should be preserved.
[smear:#11bb5b]"Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and they shall become one flesh". Genesis 2:24[/smear:#a719e6:0]
However, the family unit is being attack on every front possible...like never before!!
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Post by Cindy on Dec 30, 2019 12:36:26 GMT -5
Briefly about Jesus answering the disciples in reverse order....
the conversation was about the destruction of the temple....which lead the apostles to ask about the time but instead, Jesus gives them the signs, and then, addresses the timing.
I think I was also, going to address further, 2 Timothy 3:2-5
"[smear:#963b10]For people will be lovers of self, lovers of money, proud, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, heartless, unappeasable, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not loving good, treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, having the appearance of godliness, but denying its power. Avoid such people."[/smear:#0ca60e:0]
These character traits are not new, but the intensity of these future people and their sins, is ever increasing, rebellious, fierce, dangerous, aggressive, wild, hostile, scary, depraved, savage, more and more violent, brutal, being bad, and ever getting worse etc.
And my thought ( tho not said here in scripture, I speculate more and more people will be demon possessed and evil).
They want to cast aside every moral restraint and be wild and 'free' ( actually they will be slaves of satan....my words).
In fact, it makes me think of how at one time, satan may have been the most beautiful of angels ( or at least one of them, and they all were beautiful) but now satan has become a monster ( tho he can still pull of looking like an angel of light, from time to time)....and so it seems, people are pulling off their 'make-up' so to speak, and showing that they too are horrific monsters ( unless born again by Jesus.....yet they still have to battle the monster within from time to time.....and we need to put on the whole armor of God because we are in the biggest warfare fare!!!)
I already looked at the first and 2nd degeneration of humans.....it begins with 'self'....lovers of self, which naturally leads to loving money. We become as satan promised ( at least in our own minds and heart) our own god.
And the strange thing is we hear it being taught....taught as a wonderful thing: "You need to love yourself...you need to be 'proud' of yourself...what we need is to see our own self worth and have self esteem etc.
But that is not what Jesus said, He said we need to humble ourselves, and deny ourselves, we even need to die to self, we need to find our identity in Jesus. [smear:#0f8f94] "I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me" Galatians 2:20[/smear:#d6c12b:0]
However, the world today does not want God ......and this list, is what the world is going to look like without Him ( and when believers are raptured tho many will become saved, these traits will hit their all time high).
I remember in the 60's the youth wanting to be 'free' was ( at least how I remember it) not nearly as violent as the rebels of today.....it seems like many of them don't even 'pretend' to be all about 'peace', and 'love' etc. like antifa for example...they are not about bell bottoms, smoking dope and singing songs they dress like soldiers, and are violent and getting more so ( this is what I see, my viewpoint). But they fit what these verses are talking about.
Perhaps tho the saddest thing about some of these traits is how they have snuck in and taken over many churches i.e. lovers of money and the 'prosperity' gospel!!
well many think that being rich gives them every right to boast!!! And let's look at that more tomorrow!
Do you remember, how in the past, I would have days when I would try to write on this Bible study forum, and I would continually be falling asleep? That is what is happening today. arrrgghh I thought it was gone HA!!
Good! Only the way you answered the question about Jesus replying in the reverse order was kind of confusing...at least it would be to anyone that wasn't very familiar with their Bible and with that passage and all it meant. That's another thing teachers have to remember. We have to not only explain everything, but we also need to explain things at a level anyone could understand, even if they had little Biblical education. So, whenever we get in a hurry to get something out of the way, that's a red flag for us to slow way down and take it even slower. So, if I may, let me explain about how Jesus replied...
The Disciples had just pointed out the Temple to Jesus and how huge and beautiful it was. It would be like looking at the twin towers before they fell, and thinking like the disciples did, that nothing could ever destroy the Temple. Jesus shocked them telling them that the temple would be totally destroyed and that left them reeling! “As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. “Tell us,” they said, “when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?”” (Matthew 24:3) They couldn't imagine this happening any time soon since they still believed that Jesus would begin the Millennial Kingdom any day now, which is why they asked him both when this would happen to the temple and what would be the sign of His coming and the end of the age. See their idea of His coming wasn't the same as ours is. They thought He might disappear for a day and then they'd see Him returning as a King or something like that. They had no clue that He was going to be killed - even though Jesus had told them more then once what was going to happen. So Jesus first answered their question about the signs of His coming - what we call the Second Coming in Matthew 24:4–35, and answered about the timing of the events beginning with Matthew 24:36.
We almost always discuss the end times starting with this part of Matthew 24, but really we should start at the first verses. “Jesus left the temple and was walking away when his disciples came up to him to call his attention to its buildings. “Do you see all these things?” he asked. “I tell you the truth, not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down.”” (Matthew 24:1–2) This, among other verses, tells us that we can expect a literal fulfillment of the rest of His prophecies, because this was fulfilled quite literally. As I said before, the temple was a magnificent and amazing building that was a wonder of the world in those days due to it's size and beauty. But Jesus said these huge stones, many of which measured 40 x 12 x 12 ft. would not be found one on top of another again. This was fulfilled absolutely literally when the Romans destroyed Jerusalem in ad 70. What is called the wailing wall today is actually a remnant of the retaining wall of the temple courtyard and not of the temple itself. The Romans were so incensed by the Jews that they actually ground the stones to dust just as Jesus indicated in .
Jesus’ answer is emphatic: not one stone would be left on top of another. Jesus’ prophecy is to be understood absolutely literally, for, significantly, when the Romans had finished in ad 70, this was exactly the case (the wailing wall is a remnant of the retaining wall of the temple courtyard and not of the temple itself). It seems that the stones were ground to dust, which some teachers say Jesus indicated in Matt 21:44. Let me quote that in context for you: “Jesus said to them, “Have you never read in the Scriptures: “ ‘The stone the builders rejected has become the capstone; the Lord has done this, and it is marvelous in our eyes’? “Therefore I tell you that the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people who will produce its fruit. He who falls on this stone will be broken to pieces, but he on whom it falls will be crushed.”” (Matthew 21:42–44)
Regardless of whether or not Jesus meant to indicate that the stones of the temple would be ground up with this particular verse, His prophecy concerning the fall of Jerusalem was fulfilled very literally - not one stone was left on top of another. Therefore we can be sure that the rest of His prophecy will also be fulfilled quite literally.
You also brought up something else that I find fascinating. It's been said that Satan and his demons were at an all time high in disrupting the life's of humans when Jesus came the first time. In other words, while the people were all waiting for the Messiah and discussing it and wondering when He would come and where He was etc., at the same time, more and more people were becoming demon possessed and even just harassed by demons. I find it interesting to note what the demons caused the people they possessed to do: (instead of quoting several verses for each behavior, I'm only going to post one).
Irrational behavior 1 Sam 18:10-11 Unnatural physical strength Mark 5:4 Self-harm Mark 5:5 cutting themselves to be specific! Violent behavior Matt 8:28 antisocial behavior Luke 8:27 like running around naked The impairment of faculties Matt 12:22, Matt 17:15 and Luke 13:11 Specifically, making them blind, mute, causing them to have seizures, or be unable to walk. Caused Suffering Matt 15:22, Made them Scream loudly Mark 5:2–13; Caused them to commit Suicide or attempted suicide Luke 8:33, Matthew 17:15 Caused them to murder or attempt to murder: Luke 22:3 Caused them to prophecy whatever Satan wanted them to: Acts 16:16–18 Caused them to beat up and seriously injure others: Acts 19:16 We know from scripture also that their favorite activities are to kill, steal, and destroy, both literally and figuratively... such as destroying or killing someone's hopes and dreams, etc. Another favorite activity is also to sow strife anywhere and everywhere they can. They want to either cause people to die or at least cause them to be so depressed that they will be totally useless for God.
When I look at these things, I see what is going on with people today. Just as in the first time Jesus came there's been a big increase in demonic activity. We see it in the open worship of demons by people but mainly in the huge increase of what the world calls mental illness. I'm not saying all mental illness is caused by demons, it's not. Where something is physically wrong with a person, there's a physical problem. And I would assume people can be mentally ill without demons being involved. But I'd be willing to bet that a large amount of what we call mental illness is ultimately caused by demons.
Sorry you're having trouble falling asleep again. It's never left me.
I was thinking about these traits listed ( in 2 Timothy 3 ) and I wondered if, perhaps, satan has encouraged all of these traits
( often slowly and subtlety in the media, schools, books, magazines, even church) ,
so that, when the anti-Christ arrives, people will see him as the perfect savior of all their sins ( which are now considered to be 'rights'), and they will accept him with open arms.
There is a candidate running for President ( and no, I do not think he is the anti-Christ)
but he already is accepted with open arms as being gay, and stating that ALL drugs , or rather NO drug ( NOT ANY including crack etc.).... should be a reason for a jail sentence.....
and yes, his platform did get some 'astonishment' ( after all it's edgy, bold, perhaps even 'brave')....
In any case, he, nor his platform, did not really get the push back it would have 10, 20, 50 years ago .
I guess that lack of outrage, and even many people full acceptance of him, and of his platform ( there are other 'edgy' parts to it).... lead to ..... me wondering about this aspect of these traits listed in scripture.
But what would really be the outcome of any or all of these character traits? Eventually, loving and indulging self leads to: decadence, arrogance, self-serving, self-justifying, victim mentality, and then despair, violence, and chaos...
all leading up to people looking for a 'savior'... but NOT THE Savior ( Jesus) but rather one that will give then peace, from the chaos.... and allow them, to be able to keep doing their pet sins, but without any consequences. ( however, that is IMPOSSIBLE....sin always has consequences.... sooner.....or.....later).
So the next trait listed: proud and boastful are more apt to be strutting about, making sure everyone knows: how brilliant they are, what a hero they are, how they excel in everything
and generally trying to impress others with their superiority!! Of course, the underlying belief is others are below them!!
However, this contempt for everyone else, can be demonstrated in a quieter way ( and might even 'appear' as a humble soul) but in fact is equally contemptuous of others, and that would be the arrogant person ( kind of..... two side of the same coin).
A Biblical example is the Pharisee in Luke 18:11
[smear:#103864]"The Pharisee, standing by himself, prayed thus: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other men, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector".[/smear:#268c1f:0]
note: all the others are beneath him, he who is 'superior', to all of them (extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector....and I think he might have added an etc. (other types of people) to his list in his mind?)
Even those of us in the church are sometimes and/or are often, like this Pharisee ( I include myself)....
We tend to jump over the first part of James 4:10, and then we 'help' God, by exalting ourselves: [smear:#9c9c19] "Humble yourselves before the Lord, and he will exalt you".[/smear:#8719e6:0]
I agree. To me the mere fact of the craze of "selfies" and facebook show where the world is heading better than anything else. Why do I include facebook? Because facebook is set up to help people celebrate themselves. That's it's whole purpose. It's there to allow people to put the spot light on themselves, and that's exactly what most people use it for. Yes, people will talk about politics, but it's what they think, what they like, etc. The same about anything else that's brought up. It's not about what's best, or what the Lord says, it's about self and what self wants, and what self likes.
I think it's kind of funny really because you can take a quick glance at someone's page on facebook, (you don't even have to read much) but you can instantly tell what is the most important thing in the world to them, because that's what will be on their page more then anything else. People often say they use it to connect with family, but that alone is another sign of the times. Family is too important to have gotten lost or separated from each other to the point that you need a search engine on facebook to re-connect with someone. Sad really. But there's a lot of broken families now days and not just from divorce. Families have been split apart due to one of more members being proud, ungrateful, without love, unforgiving, slanderous, etc.
[smear:#b32026]2 Timothy 3: 2-5
" For people will be lovers of self, lovers of money, proud, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, heartless, unappeasable, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not loving good, treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, having the appearance of godliness, but denying its power. Avoid such people". [/smear:#2ea945:1]
I have noticed that these all seem to go together: Because we love ourselves, we esteem money so we can lavish material items on ourselves, and for the 'power' it gives us.... which leads us to feeling pride... which leads to boasting Arrogance
Again while thinking on the ever incrementalism of these traits: I know some might say, well just look at recent history....everything is as it ever was, and to a 'degree' that is true...... but its in the 'degree' that lies the difference!
For sure the roaring 20's were 'scandalous' in dress and dancing etc. but nothing compared to the 1960's and even the 60's were tame, compared to the streetwalker outfits of today ( even on children age 5 years old), and the sexually explicit dancing... waay more than the Charleston ( but of course the Charleston was a rebellion against the waltz which it replaced.)
Just a quick history search of some images of the outfits and/or dances will show immediately how such things have degraded over the years into more and more rebellious sin....
It is not so much that dance itself is sinful, but it is the rebellion it symbolizes.
Next, abusive behavior has increased as well from swearing and Blasphemy which are totally 'normal' today ( but were not in the 20's)
Having a wicked tongue that curses, using denigrating insults, etc. is considered 'cool' today and it has increased in leaps and bounds!!!
In the past some men would swear regularly, other men, on occasion, but woman.... almost never would swear in the past!! Now.... many many woman swear equally with most men..... this is not a step up, but rather a big step down.
[smear:#1f446f]" But what comes out of the mouth proceeds from the heart, and this defiles a person." Matthew 5:18[/smear:#bea40d:0]
In some ways the next one in the list, stands out sooooo much. Its not that there have never been children who were disobedient to their parents in the past, but I truly believe its never been so massive as in these days!!
satan ( I think) has really picked this as a pet project, to further his hatred of humans, and his plans to take as many to Hell. so since, self-love is a dominate theme that is being mass taught in our culture, and if children are just into loving self....then... they do not love or respect parents.
The kids often see parents only as a means to get whatever material items they want, but there is no grateful attitude accompanying a parent who sacrifices to try and fulfill their child's endless and bottomless demands for more, more and more stuff. They use their parents and throw a fit if they do not get everything they want, when they want it.
Not only are they not grateful, the are downright disrespectful and disobedient. However, this disobedience extends to anyone they think of as having authority ( police, teachers etc.)
But I think the devil especially like to use these kids and teach them to be self-center brats and thumb their noses at God's 5th commandment:
[smear:#ac2693]"12 “Honor your father and your mother....." Exodus 20:12[/smear:#21a87f:2]
I agree. We were just talking the other night about dances. Back in history, say back from the 1800's and continuing backward, in order to dance, one had to be able to think. Dances weren't about pressing your body against someone else and wiggling around in front of God and everyone. Instead they were actually different kinds of dances, some were just plain fun, others were for beauty (the beauty was in the dance not the individual people), and so forth. But they were all quite detailed with many choreographed steps, so you had to be able to think in order to do them. Interestingly, the people had a great amount of fun dancing back then, even more then we do now I think. But never did anyone's body touch another person's body. At the most your hands touched, and sometimes it was only the fingers. Plus, the women wore long dresses and would have been horrified if even their ankle showed, and yes, men thought an ankle showing was quite erotic. Now they can see everything and nothing is left to the imagination. As for the dances today, they don't require any thought at all.
So even in something as insignificant as dances, Satan has removed "thinking". Satan has been working to get rid of thinking for quite awhile now. Schools used to teach kids how to think, but instead they now tell kids what to think. Another sad sign of the times.
Oh, I do want to point out one other thing that's pretty important. Matthew 24 and 25, which are all about the signs of the end of the age, are not for the Chruch. Jesus was speaking to His disciples who were all Jewish as Jesus Himself was. The disciples’ questions related to Jerusalem, Israel, & the Lord’s 2nd coming in glory to establish His kingdom. He was telling them what was going to happen to Israel, He was not speaking about the Church. The Church will be gone from the scene as these things actually happen. All we will see, like we're seeing now, is what i like to call, "mini previews" of the things that will happen when we are gone.
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,470
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Post by fearnot on Dec 31, 2019 11:32:25 GMT -5
So helpful as always!!
so true about dance, what it was and what it is now. I took ballet and talk about 'thinking' every move from fingers to toes!! And for a short time, I did Arthur Murray dance instructor where one taught waltz, tango, etc. etc. but yes, you had to think....now...its like you described and even when professional dancers dance for some music video....there is no 'beauty' or grace, in the choreography ( but lots of sexual moves). I am so glad you mentioned this: "What is called the wailing wall today is actually a remnant of the retaining wall of the temple courtyard and not of the temple itself".
In the past, I have heard people attempt to prove Jesus prophecy about the temple was wrong by pointing to the wailing wall....so it's important to note, the wall was not a part of the actual temple, but a retaining wall of the courtyard!
Also the list of the various things that demons caused the people they possessed to do was interesting...scary and very sad....but to see a list like that wow! And yet, more and more people today, think its cool to become a satanist....I guess they want the temporary physical power and strength but do they realize all the other things?
It seems so strange to me, anyone would want to be evil and boast about it like a badge of honor.
I along with the sleeping issue, also have been having more bouts of sciatica lately....which can make it impossible for me to do anything....they are so intensely painful. ( from back to toe and also neck and shoulder pain sometimes on the increase but eventually subsides).
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,470
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Post by fearnot on Dec 31, 2019 12:49:18 GMT -5
[smear:#852534]"For people will be lovers of self, lovers of money, proud, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, heartless, unappeasable, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not loving good, treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God", 2Timothy 3: 2-5[/smear:#2c8e49:0]
Unappeasable..a person who is immovable and will not hear an appeal. One who does not care what you say and further more, they are not interested either. They are unyielding and unforgiving. Unwilling to negotiate keeping a feud going on forever, with hate in their heart.
We are seeing this more and more, in today's world of divorce cases, where each partner, will do whatever will hurt the other the most ( including stealing or killing the children). they cannot and will not see the other persons side, there is no compassion, pity, no love.
When we think of slander, we often think of it only in a legal way....but 'gossip' is a is malicious toward anyone...they are not there to defend themselves, and by it, we tend to build ourselves up, by putting someone else down. But malicious gossips are doing the work of satan....accusing others ( often embellishing or outright lying).
[smear:#238305]"........for the accuser of our brothers has been thrown down, who accuses them day and night before our God" Revelation 12:10[/smear:#9c0841:0]
We see so much of this today!! It has increased to the point where, In fact, whole industries are built on being 'gossip' magazines, newspapers get in on it also, TV programs based on it etc etc.
And it has even crept into the church under the guise of: I am only telling you this, so you can better pray for so and so.
However the result is, broken relationships, lack of trust, and often retaliation.
And when people gossip, they most often, do not have all the facts, so they add and elaborate, make up, use their own suppositions, innuendos, etc. as if they were facts.
It's a kind of stealing...you steal another's reputation ( when they are not around) to increase your own ( if nothing else, as a person, in the 'know').
Even more so, you do not always know the result your gossip may have. Another person listening to you, may take your 1/2 truth ( at best) as being 100% true, and be so angry, they may decide to harm the person you were gossiping about.
Which is a real danger, in a world where people seem to have less and less self-control, which is the next on this list. This makes me think of a person with a short fuse, a quick temper, no self-restraint, blows up unexpectedly ( with no seeming thought before hand). The have no power over their 'feelings' and cannot say no to themselves and if anything gets in their way, they react like a 2 year old and scream, yell, hit etc. But really this fits into today's world of anything goes...
But this leads right into the next trait....brutal.
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,470
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Post by fearnot on Jan 1, 2020 11:54:00 GMT -5
[smear:#e61953]"For people will be lovers of self, lovers of money, proud, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, heartless, unappeasable, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not loving good, treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God", 2Timothy 3: 2-5[/smear:#4d19e6:0]
Next in the list is brutal, or without mercy, violent, no gentleness,no sympathy. I guess this is a result of being self-centered, but it is also so sad! And sadly it is growing. I suppose there is also a craving for power that fuels this also. It is growing, and to be pushing for more and more self-love, is only adding to this cruel fire.
Next is not loving 'good;. This seems to me to start early on in life when kids will bully another child trying to be good as a 'goodie-two-shoes, a mommy's boy or girl, a nerd, dweeb, dork, etc. You are an embarrassment at best for loving God and wanting to please Him. You are no fun ( because you do not love the base, crude, degrading, low etc. things).
We have seen soooooo much of calling 'good'.. bad, these days:
[smear:#8a1f46]"Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter"! Isaiah 5:20[/smear:#1c8774:0] and calling evil...good.
It is disheartening, and if we did not have the Lord and His Word, there would be no hope!
We see more and more the truth of this verse also:
[smear:#619c11]"And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil. For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his works should be exposed". John 3: 19, 20[/smear:#a91027:0]
I am thinking when a person has adopted all these traits, being treacherous or a traitor, is not a big step, it would be just natural. To turn in a buddy, a country even is all the same to them... if it works in your favor....your loyalty is to self first and last. Self-love at work again.
We see this so much everywhere, politics, big corporations, etc., down to the family level. Children will tattle,or lie, on siblings ....if it works in their favor.
but this will continue to grow more and more:
[smear:#08631d]"Brother will deliver brother over to death, and the father his child, and children will rise against parents and have them put to death" Matthew 10:21[/smear:#e619db:0]
Judas is a supreme example of a traitor.
Next will be Reckless
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Post by Cindy on Jan 2, 2020 11:38:15 GMT -5
So helpful as always!!
so true about dance, what it was and what it is now. I took ballet and talk about 'thinking' every move from fingers to toes!! And for a short time, I did Arthur Murray dance instructor where one taught waltz, tango, etc. etc. but yes, you had to think....now...its like you described and even when professional dancers dance for some music video....there is no 'beauty' or grace, in the choreography ( but lots of sexual moves). I am so glad you mentioned this: "What is called the wailing wall today is actually a remnant of the retaining wall of the temple courtyard and not of the temple itself".
In the past, I have heard people attempt to prove Jesus prophecy about the temple was wrong by pointing to the wailing wall....so it's important to note, the wall was not a part of the actual temple, but a retaining wall of the courtyard!
Also the list of the various things that demons caused the people they possessed to do was interesting...scary and very sad....but to see a list like that wow! And yet, more and more people today, think its cool to become a satanist....I guess they want the temporary physical power and strength but do they realize all the other things?
It seems so strange to me, anyone would want to be evil and boast about it like a badge of honor.
I along with the sleeping issue, also have been having more bouts of sciatica lately....which can make it impossible for me to do anything....they are so intensely painful. ( from back to toe and also neck and shoulder pain sometimes on the increase but eventually subsides).
I'm sorry to hear about your pain hon. I hope you start feeling better soon. I'll keep you in my prayers! I had wondered about the wailing wall myself. I knew there had to be an explanation, but didn't know what it was. So was glad when I discovered that.
[smear:#852534]"For people will be lovers of self, lovers of money, proud, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, heartless, unappeasable, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not loving good, treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God", 2Timothy 3: 2-5[/smear:#2c8e49:0]
Unappeasable..a person who is immovable and will not hear an appeal. One who does not care what you say and further more, they are not interested either. They are unyielding and unforgiving. Unwilling to negotiate keeping a feud going on forever, with hate in their heart.
We are seeing this more and more, in today's world of divorce cases, where each partner, will do whatever will hurt the other the most ( including stealing or killing the children). they cannot and will not see the other persons side, there is no compassion, pity, no love.
When we think of slander, we often think of it only in a legal way....but 'gossip' is a is malicious toward anyone...they are not there to defend themselves, and by it, we tend to build ourselves up, by putting someone else down. But malicious gossips are doing the work of satan....accusing others ( often embellishing or outright lying).
[smear:#238305]"........for the accuser of our brothers has been thrown down, who accuses them day and night before our God" Revelation 12:10[/smear:#9c0841:0]
We see so much of this today!! It has increased to the point where, In fact, whole industries are built on being 'gossip' magazines, newspapers get in on it also, TV programs based on it etc etc.
And it has even crept into the church under the guise of: I am only telling you this, so you can better pray for so and so.
However the result is, broken relationships, lack of trust, and often retaliation.
And when people gossip, they most often, do not have all the facts, so they add and elaborate, make up, use their own suppositions, innuendos, etc. as if they were facts.
It's a kind of stealing...you steal another's reputation ( when they are not around) to increase your own ( if nothing else, as a person, in the 'know').
Even more so, you do not always know the result your gossip may have. Another person listening to you, may take your 1/2 truth ( at best) as being 100% true, and be so angry, they may decide to harm the person you were gossiping about.
Which is a real danger, in a world where people seem to have less and less self-control, which is the next on this list. This makes me think of a person with a short fuse, a quick temper, no self-restraint, blows up unexpectedly ( with no seeming thought before hand). The have no power over their 'feelings' and cannot say no to themselves and if anything gets in their way, they react like a 2 year old and scream, yell, hit etc. But really this fits into today's world of anything goes...
But this leads right into the next trait....brutal.
very good!
[smear:#e61953]"For people will be lovers of self, lovers of money, proud, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, heartless, unappeasable, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not loving good, treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God", 2Timothy 3: 2-5[/smear:#4d19e6:0]
Next in the list is brutal, or without mercy, violent, no gentleness,no sympathy. I guess this is a result of being self-centered, but it is also so sad! And sadly it is growing. I suppose there is also a craving for power that fuels this also. It is growing, and to be pushing for more and more self-love, is only adding to this cruel fire.
Next is not loving 'good;. This seems to me to start early on in life when kids will bully another child trying to be good as a 'goodie-two-shoes, a mommy's boy or girl, a nerd, dweeb, dork, etc. You are an embarrassment at best for loving God and wanting to please Him. You are no fun ( because you do not love the base, crude, degrading, low etc. things).
We have seen soooooo much of calling 'good'.. bad, these days:
[smear:#8a1f46]"Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter"! Isaiah 5:20[/smear:#1c8774:0] and calling evil...good.
It is disheartening, and if we did not have the Lord and His Word, there would be no hope!
We see more and more the truth of this verse also:
[smear:#619c11]"And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil. For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his works should be exposed". John 3: 19, 20[/smear:#a91027:0]
I am thinking when a person has adopted all these traits, being treacherous or a traitor, is not a big step, it would be just natural. To turn in a buddy, a country even is all the same to them... if it works in your favor....your loyalty is to self first and last. Self-love at work again.
We see this so much everywhere, politics, big corporations, etc., down to the family level. Children will tattle,or lie, on siblings ....if it works in their favor.
but this will continue to grow more and more:
[smear:#08631d]"Brother will deliver brother over to death, and the father his child, and children will rise against parents and have them put to death" Matthew 10:21[/smear:#e619db:0]
Judas is a supreme example of a traitor.
Next will be Reckless
Very good!
I'd like to share something I did with these verses that I found helpful to understand all the various meanings of the words used. I listed all the different ways each verse was said and compared them with each other...many are the same or very similar, but sometimes it gives you a whole other idea.... You'll see that I put each attribute in the same color to make it easier to see the differences.
2 Timothy 3:2: ESV | For people will be lovers of self, lovers of money, proud, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, NIV | People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, AV 1873 | For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, NASB95 | For men will be lovers of self, lovers of money, boastful, arrogant, revilers, disobedient to parents, ungrateful, unholy, NET | For people will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, arrogant, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, ungrateful, unholy, NRSV | For people will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, NCV | because people will love themselves, love money, brag, and be proud. They will say evil things against others and will not obey their parents or be thankful or be the kind of people God wants.
2 Timothy 3:3 ESV | heartless, unappeasable, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not loving good, NIV | without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, AV 1873 | without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, NASB95 | unloving, irreconcilable, malicious gossips, without self-control, brutal, haters of good, NET | unloving, irreconcilable, slanderers, without self-control, savage, opposed to what is good, NRSV | inhuman, implacable, slanderers, profligates, brutes, haters of good, NCV | They will not love others, will refuse to forgive, will gossip, and will not control themselves. They will be cruel, will hate what is good,
2 Timothy 3:4 ESV | treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, NIV | treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God— AV 1873 | traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; NASB95 | treacherous, reckless, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, NET | treacherous, reckless, conceited, loving pleasure rather than loving God. NRSV | treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, NCV | will turn against their friends, and will do foolish things without thinking. They will be conceited, will love pleasure instead of God,
2 Timothy 3:5 ESV | having the appearance of godliness, but denying its power. Avoid such people. NIV | having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with them. AV 1873 | having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away. NASB95 | holding to a form of godliness, although they have denied its power; Avoid such men as these. NET | They will maintain the outward appearance of religion but will have repudiated its power. So avoid people like these. NRSV | holding to the outward form of godliness but denying its power. Avoid them! NCV | and will act as if they serve God but will not have his power. Stay away from those people.
Notice how much all these various versions are alike. Notice too that although they sometimes use a different word to define something, the meaning of the verse isn't changed. The different words used simply help give us a better idea of the meaning that God intended. The more I study the various versions and their translations of the Old and New Testaments, the more in awe of the people who did this work I am. They had a difficult job at best and one which they knew the Lord was watching carefully and that they would be judged very hard for. (James 3:1) They ALL did a tremendous job and I'm so grateful to them! When I say "all" I mean all who helped translate any version of the Bible other than a paraphrase. A paraphrase is not a real Bible, since it doesn't contain "God's Word". Instead, a paraphrase contains the words and ideas of the person or persons who are paraphrasing it. (The Message Bible would be an example of a paraphrased Bible). The point I want to make though is that all the various translations say the same thing. No translation changes the meaning of the verse. (unlike what some KJO versionists would like people to think.) I really wish people would take the time to actually study things before attacking them. When they don't, they're really serving Satan and not the Lord, for they're stirring up strife among the brethren. There's nothing wrong with using the KJV or the NIV, or NASB, or NRSV or EVS or any other version available if it's one that you can read and easily understand.
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,470
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Post by fearnot on Jan 2, 2020 12:06:56 GMT -5
[smear:#533180]"For people will be lovers of self, lovers of money, proud, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, heartless, unappeasable, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not loving good, treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God", 2Timothy 3: 2-5[/smear:#8e295c:0]
So reckless is next....I think people have so much more time on their hands, and are so into 'self' they look for more and more thrills in a reckless way. They are often out of control ( sometimes fueled by drugs, or drink, or pride).
Their impetuous behavior does not take in consideration the effect their rash, thoughtless, careless, quick, impulsive, ruled by their passion and determination to have 'fun' at any cost.... might have on others.
They are determined to have their own way. Often the more dangerous the better, and they wear their foolish acts with pride!!
[smear:#e67319]"........you ought to be quiet and do nothing rash" [/smear:#1982e6:0]Acts 19:36 never enters their mind.
Next comes conceited:
People who are so self-centered tend to be self-deceived...thinking they are better, higher, more valuable than all others. Full of self-importance which goes right back to self again! They boast about themselves and nothing or no one, not even God can top their wonderful selves...in their blind to reality eyes.
We see this attitude actually being taught in schools today....to love your self...as if it has to be taught.
And the next attitude has no room for God either.
[smear:#2c8061]" lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God"[/smear:#a6a20e:0]
They know it all, are totally selfish, and they have no love for god. But much of the pleasures they indulge themselves in, never ever satisfy. their 'devotion' is to themselves and their 'pleasures' which sooner or later will ruin them often in this life and for sure in eternity.
and we see this more in our times than ever before.
A person can get any electronic gadget and within a few months, they are dissatisfied...absolutely needing the newer more expensive version, this is true of cars, houses, and every other thing. Yet it is a colder, more uncaring world and only God can help.
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,470
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Post by fearnot on Jan 2, 2020 12:26:11 GMT -5
That was great, showing all the variations!!
So far looking at these traits has been sobering.....I see where God has made a lot of progress with me in some, but needing to grow in others!!
I was feeling a bit down and depressed this morning, and I realized how ungrateful that was. There are sooooo many blessings the Lord has bestowed on me! I could be homeless, without food, or being tortured for my faith, or blind, on and on.
So I decided as soon as the 'downs', hit, I will instead immediately thank God...for all His loving care, provisions, blessings...the biggest being He IS and he saved me.
I think looking at this list is sad....soooo sooo many people today, ( and I include myself) are so into 'self'. I am also working on 'keeping my mind stayed on Jesus' when I am down.
Its part of our sin nature, but now, its being hammered as a virtue in every way possible and the results are terrible, and will only get more so.
Finally today the sciatic has let up for the moment. Thank you for caring :) In more ways than one, especially on the spiritual level!!
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Post by Cindy on Jan 3, 2020 11:10:36 GMT -5
[smear:#533180]"For people will be lovers of self, lovers of money, proud, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, heartless, unappeasable, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not loving good, treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God", 2Timothy 3: 2-5[/smear:#8e295c:0]
So reckless is next....I think people have so much more time on their hands, and are so into 'self' they look for more and more thrills in a reckless way. They are often out of control ( sometimes fueled by drugs, or drink, or pride).
Their impetuous behavior does not take in consideration the effect their rash, thoughtless, careless, quick, impulsive, ruled by their passion and determination to have 'fun' at any cost.... might have on others.
They are determined to have their own way. Often the more dangerous the better, and they wear their foolish acts with pride!!
[smear:#e67319]"........you ought to be quiet and do nothing rash" [/smear:#1982e6:0]Acts 19:36 never enters their mind.
Next comes conceited:
People who are so self-centered tend to be self-deceived...thinking they are better, higher, more valuable than all others. Full of self-importance which goes right back to self again! They boast about themselves and nothing or no one, not even God can top their wonderful selves...in their blind to reality eyes.
We see this attitude actually being taught in schools today....to love your self...as if it has to be taught.
And the next attitude has no room for God either.
[smear:#2c8061]" lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God"[/smear:#a6a20e:0]
They know it all, are totally selfish, and they have no love for god. But much of the pleasures they indulge themselves in, never ever satisfy. their 'devotion' is to themselves and their 'pleasures' which sooner or later will ruin them often in this life and for sure in eternity.
and we see this more in our times than ever before.
A person can get any electronic gadget and within a few months, they are dissatisfied...absolutely needing the newer more expensive version, this is true of cars, houses, and every other thing. Yet it is a colder, more uncaring world and only God can help.
Well said! I'm sure that every generation of Christians has looked around them and seen these very things in the people around them and felt as we do that the time was near because of it. The problem is that God isn't saying that these characteristics that the people will have is only going to be in the very last hours of the end times. These characteristics are actually the characteristics of all the unsaved of every generation since Jesus was here the first time. And that's what Paul says too, because the end times, or the "last days" started when Jesus came the first time. So these characteristics have been seen in every generation and will continue to be seen until He comes again. However, I've noticed that these characteristics do seem to be getting more obvious, or stronger perhaps? I think the reason for that is due to sin being celebrated as good in our time and holiness as evil. That tells me that we are close to the end of this age. I'm sure it will get worse before Jesus comes for us, although it doesn't have to... I just think it will. I know the Lord wants to make sure that He has saved everyone possible before the rapture. But don't fear for your loved ones if you don't think they could be saved any time soon, because those who refuse to be saved before hand, He will save after the rapture! While no one would want to go through that, on the other hand, those who do will be the hero's of Christianity and put the Christians of our generation to shame. So there is great good planned for them. That was great, showing all the variations!!
So far looking at these traits has been sobering.....I see where God has made a lot of progress with me in some, but needing to grow in others!!
I was feeling a bit down and depressed this morning, and I realized how ungrateful that was. There are sooooo many blessings the Lord has bestowed on me! I could be homeless, without food, or being tortured for my faith, or blind, on and on.
So I decided as soon as the 'downs', hit, I will instead immediately thank God...for all His loving care, provisions, blessings...the biggest being He IS and he saved me.
I think looking at this list is sad....soooo sooo many people today, ( and I include myself) are so into 'self'. I am also working on 'keeping my mind stayed on Jesus' when I am down.
Its part of our sin nature, but now, its being hammered as a virtue in every way possible and the results are terrible, and will only get more so.
Finally today the sciatic has let up for the moment. Thank you for caring :) In more ways than one, especially on the spiritual level!! Yes, the self pity we tend to want to get into is part of our sin nature and praising God, or thanking Him are two of the very best ways to overcome it! Whenever we begin to worship the Lord, Satan has to flee, and so do all feelings of self pity and feeling down! For He inhabits the praises of His people. (Psalm 22:3) He surrounds us with His love and holds us close to His heart. Satan has tried hard to tempt me to get depressed or just have a pity party many times over the last couple of months, but I refuse to allow it, and have asked the Lord to guard my heart and mind with me so that nothing can slip by me! When I start praising Him or especially if I turn on worship music or hymns and begin to worship Him, He fills me with His love, joy, and peace! The only problem is that it always makes me cry tears of joy and that makes me get all stuffed up!!! I sure hope that doesn't happen in heaven! I'm so glad the pain has eased up for you at this time and I sure hope it continues to ease up!
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,470
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Post by fearnot on Jan 3, 2020 12:43:27 GMT -5
What encouraging things you wrote....thank you soooo much!
This was one that was so uplifting:
"But don't fear for your loved ones if you don't think they could be saved any time soon, because those who refuse to be saved before hand, He will save after the rapture! While no one would want to go through that, on the other hand, those who do will be the hero's of Christianity and put the Christians of our generation to shame. So there is great good planned for them".
I am so glad you wrote that!
And also, when you wrote:
"Whenever we begin to worship the Lord, Satan has to flee, and so do all feelings of self pity and feeling down! For He inhabits the praises of His people". (Psalm 22:3)
It made me wonder for the first time if that is why I never feel depressed or down at church....because of the corporate praise and worship of believers...satan has to flee.
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,470
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Post by fearnot on Jan 3, 2020 13:42:32 GMT -5
I agree we have always had all these signs but I think it is pretty clear they are increasing.
Some of the biggest increases are things like:
A man can become a woman ( a totally different sex than what he was born....and a woman can become a man) This bizarre belief has cause doctors, researchers, teachers , etc etc. to lose their jobs if the do not comply. It is clear in the Bible that God created just 2 sexes ( not 100 genders or more as is being taught to children). I can't say for sure this has never been taught in history before, but I sincerely doubt it.
then there is the ever increasing worship of the earth/creation:
[smear:#be2c4a]".....because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Romans: 1:25[/smear:#6b19e6:0]
We even have people in our own government proclaiming ( and don't let's forget Al gore and his movie) but ACO has warned us that Earth will be destroyed in 10 years if we don’t stop using fossil fuels. But of course it goes much further than that cows expelling gas is also deadly etc etc.
A woman has the 100 percent right to choose her own 'rights' over that of her baby, and can murder her infant as her right...murder is now a right...43 million babies killed just this past year.
We now uphold children as THE experts in science, morals etc. It used to be that from time to time, children would secretly believe that ( until they grew up and learned different) but now adults are believing it.
And this verse seems closer than ever:
[smear:#be7810]"children will rise against parents and have them put to death", Matthew 10:21 [/smear:#78e619:0]
And in fact these verses seems to be on the increase greatly also:
[smear:#216321]"For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. 36 And a person's enemies will be those of his own household" Matthew 10: 35, 36[/smear:#711281:0]
I may come back to this but for now, I think we might look at what may be the next event on God's prophetic timeline The rapture ( tho there are some (or many) who think the war in Ezekiel 38 and 39 might come first. I don't think that is a 'must' that has to happen before the rapture, but I think it could, if God so wills it....it IS going to happen.
I will wait and here what you have learned from your studies on that....
But for now, I will look at the rapture.
The first verses will be these:
[smear:#e67319]1 Thessalonians 4:13-18
13 But we do not want you to be uninformed, brothers, about those who are asleep, that you may not grieve as others do who have no hope. 14 For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, through Jesus, God will bring with him those who have fallen asleep. 15 For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore encourage one another with these words.[/smear:#0a0d75:0]
I have been convicted for 20 or 30 years or more, that the pre-tribulation rapture can be clearly proved ( but I actually did think, as a young Christian, it was Post-tribulation). But then I had not really study or looked into it hardly at all.
For sure we need to ready:
"Therefore you also must be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect." Matthew 24:44
We hear the buzz word 'woke' so much these days....but God said it way before it became a popular word of today!!! And God ( told) tells us to wake up!!
[smear:#800c4d]"Remember, then, what you received and heard. Keep it, and repent. If you will not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what hour I will come against you". Revelation 3:3[/smear:#0f655c:0]
We cannot be awake to the rapture if we do not ever study it in God's word soooooo Who will be asleep? For sure the unsaved, and sadly perhaps even some Christians.
However, if the rapture were to happen, like some think, after the first half of the 7 years of tribulation ( 3 1/2 years into it), or post tribulation.... then there would not be a surprise factor of Jesus coming like a thief in the night. However, the tribulation will be so unlike anything ever ever in the history of mankind, ( 2/3 rds of mankind will have died for just one example), so people will know it ( they may curse God, but they will know).
And it would be almost comical to be raptured right at the end of the tribulation , only... to come immediately, right back, when Jesus will start his 1000 year reign.
As an aside, I can only imagine the spin fake news will be putting out as explanations:
Gaia kicked all the bad hateful Christians our, or aliens came and took us away, some kind of virus was created to rid the world of the Christians etc. etc.
In any case many will believe the spin whatever it will be:
[smear:#49700d]"Therefore God sends them a strong delusion, so that they may believe what is false" 2 Thessalonians 2:11[/smear:#890e5b:0]
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,470
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Post by fearnot on Jan 4, 2020 14:01:41 GMT -5
Before I go on, I am sure someone is going to say the word 'rapture' is not in the Bible, and that would be true..... because the Bible was not written in English. Instead the word rapture is from the Latin word rapturo, which is a translation of the Greek verb “caught up” harpazó. It means to snatch up
[smear:#e61943]" Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord". 1 Thessalonians 4:17[/smear:#1e1389:1]
The rapture is not the same as when Christ comes back to earth, when His feet touch the Mount of Olives, and He establishes millennial reign. This is about His coming and meeting believers in the air. There are differences between the rapture and his 2nd coming ( which will probably come up every now and again or maybe I can try to just write a post explaining them).
And this verse will apply;
[smear:#2d7238] “Do not let your heart be troubled; believe in God, believe also in Me. In My Father’s house are many rooms; if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself, that where I am, there you may be also.” John 14: 1-3[/smear:#932a92:1]
There is no judgment and He does not touch the earth at this time. Instead: [smear:#e63119]"For God has not destined us for wrath" ( of the tribulation) I Thessalonians 5:9[/smear:#071641:1]
I am falling asleep again so I will try to work more on this tomorrow.
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,470
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Post by fearnot on Jan 5, 2020 11:50:25 GMT -5
Maybe some are confused if they have seen a 'Left Behind' movie, and do not understand why a lot of 'Christians' are left behind? So just in case, someone should wonder what's up with that?
I need to explain that not everybody who goes to church, or even says they are a Christian, is, in fact, a a 'born again' believer...some are 'Christians' in name only.
Briefly, 'born again comes directly from Jesus:
John 3:3 ; 5,6,7 [smear:#9529bf]Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.”...... Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’[/smear:#e61989:1]
Some people have thought because they repeated a prayer then they were saved, but it's more than the words it has to do with trusting in Jesus to save you from your sins, truly wanting and desiring to turn from your sins, and wanting to belong to the Lord, wanting to do, think, say etc. what pleases Him. Hating your sins and your old life ( you are a new creation), sin will continue to come up but it is no longer you hearts desire.It
It is the born again believers that will be raptured from the wrath to come ( the tribulation).
[smear:#7a1993] "Because you have kept my word about patient endurance, I will keep you from the hour of trial that is coming on the whole world, to try those who dwell on the earth". Revelation 3:10[/smear:#16b42b:1]
[smear:#862816] For you yourselves are fully aware that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. While people are saying, “There is peace and security,” then sudden destruction will come upon them as labor pains come upon a pregnant woman, and they will not escape. But you are not in darkness, brothers, for that day to surprise you like a thief. I Thessalonians 5:2-4[/smear:#5cb027:1]
God has patiently allowed sinners to come to Him and sincerely give up their love of sin, but His patience will last only so long, He cannot co-exist with evil and sin....it is only His great love, that has spared us so far....but the day of wrath against sin ( and sinners) is coming, and in the not to distant future.
At this point, I am sure someone is thinking...but but Jesus has been gone for 2000 plus years?
Time is different for humans than it is for God. In fact, 2000 years for God is like 2 days.
[smear:#457e07] "But do not overlook this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day". 2 Peter 3:8[/smear:#970443:1]
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,470
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Post by fearnot on Jan 6, 2020 11:54:38 GMT -5
Maybe now would be a time to explain a little deeper the differences between the Rapture and the 2nd coming of Jesus. There are Christians who do not accept this sort of 2 fold or 2 phases so here are some of the differences:
In the Rapture Jesus comes FOR the believers:
[smear:#1d691d]"After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. " I Thessalonians 4:17[/smear:#bc1d94:3]
In the 2nd coming.....He comes WITH the believers:
[smear:#166574]"The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean". [/smear:#e65e07:1]
Note: This army is made op of both men and angels.
At the Rapture Jesus comes as a bridegroom to take His bride ( the church) out of the world, and to Heaven where He has prepared a place for her.
[smear:#e6192a]John 14:1-3
“Do not let your hearts be troubled. You believe in God; believe also in me. My Father’s house has many rooms; if that were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you? And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am. ”[/smear:#341da3:1]
Also to keep us from the coming wrath:
[smear:#56b321]"......wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead—Jesus, who rescues us from the coming wrath". I Thessalonians 1: 10[/smear:#be2f9f:0]
At the 2nd coming He comes as a King, and establishes His reign of 1,000 years.
Here are some Old Testament prediction of Jesus 2nd coming:
“ And in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that shall never be destroyed, nor shall the kingdom be left to another people. It shall break in pieces all these kingdoms and bring them to an end, and it shall stand forever". Daniel 2
[smear:#6d7916]“I saw in the night visions,
and behold, with the clouds of heaven there came one like a son of man, and he came to the Ancient of Days and was presented before him. And to him was given dominion and glory and a kingdom, that all peoples, nations, and languages should serve him; his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom one that shall not be destroyed". Daniel 7: 13, 14[/smear:#14507a:0]
[smear:#e65a19]"Then shall all the trees of the forest sing for joy before the Lord, for he comes, for he comes to judge the earth. He will judge the world in righteousness, and the peoples in his faithfulness". Psalm 96: 12, 13[/smear:#9719e6:0]
[smear:#70ad12]“And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and supplication. They will look on me, the one they have pierced, and they will mourn for him as one mourns for an only child, and grieve bitterly for him as one grieves for a firstborn son". Zecharian 12: 10[/smear:#d20f43:0]
When Israel will be saved ( the remaining 1/3)
I will do some more tomorrow.
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Post by Cindy on Jan 6, 2020 12:32:53 GMT -5
What encouraging things you wrote....thank you soooo much! This was one that was so uplifting: "But don't fear for your loved ones if you don't think they could be saved any time soon, because those who refuse to be saved before hand, He will save after the rapture! While no one would want to go through that, on the other hand, those who do will be the hero's of Christianity and put the Christians of our generation to shame. So there is great good planned for them". I am so glad you wrote that! And also, when you wrote: "Whenever we begin to worship the Lord, Satan has to flee, and so do all feelings of self pity and feeling down! For He inhabits the praises of His people". (Psalm 22:3) It made me wonder for the first time if that is why I never feel depressed or down at church....because of the corporate praise and worship of believers...satan has to flee. It's not just the corporate praise, but even individual praise. I don't think there's any way a person can be depressed and really be praising and worshiping the Lord at the same time.
I agree we have always had all these signs but I think it is pretty clear they are increasing.
Some of the biggest increases are things like:
A man can become a woman ( a totally different sex than what he was born....and a woman can become a man) This bizarre belief has cause doctors, researchers, teachers , etc etc. to lose their jobs if the do not comply. It is clear in the Bible that God created just 2 sexes ( not 100 genders or more as is being taught to children). I can't say for sure this has never been taught in history before, but I sincerely doubt it.
then there is the ever increasing worship of the earth/creation:
[smear:#be2c4a]".....because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Romans: 1:25[/smear:#6b19e6:0]
We even have people in our own government proclaiming ( and don't let's forget Al gore and his movie) but ACO has warned us that Earth will be destroyed in 10 years if we don’t stop using fossil fuels. But of course it goes much further than that cows expelling gas is also deadly etc etc.
A woman has the 100 percent right to choose her own 'rights' over that of her baby, and can murder her infant as her right...murder is now a right...43 million babies killed just this past year.
We now uphold children as THE experts in science, morals etc. It used to be that from time to time, children would secretly believe that ( until they grew up and learned different) but now adults are believing it.
And this verse seems closer than ever:
[smear:#be7810]"children will rise against parents and have them put to death", Matthew 10:21 [/smear:#78e619:0]
And in fact these verses seems to be on the increase greatly also:
[smear:#216321]"For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. 36 And a person's enemies will be those of his own household" Matthew 10: 35, 36[/smear:#711281:0]
I may come back to this but for now, I think we might look at what may be the next event on God's prophetic timeline The rapture ( tho there are some (or many) who think the war in Ezekiel 38 and 39 might come first. I don't think that is a 'must' that has to happen before the rapture, but I think it could, if God so wills it....it IS going to happen.
I will wait and here what you have learned from your studies on that....
But for now, I will look at the rapture.
The first verses will be these:
[smear:#e67319]1 Thessalonians 4:13-18
13 But we do not want you to be uninformed, brothers, about those who are asleep, that you may not grieve as others do who have no hope. 14 For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, through Jesus, God will bring with him those who have fallen asleep. 15 For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore encourage one another with these words.[/smear:#0a0d75:0]
I have been convicted for 20 or 30 years or more, that the pre-tribulation rapture can be clearly proved ( but I actually did think, as a young Christian, it was Post-tribulation). But then I had not really study or looked into it hardly at all.
For sure we need to ready:
"Therefore you also must be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect." Matthew 24:44
We hear the buzz word 'woke' so much these days....but God said it way before it became a popular word of today!!! And God ( told) tells us to wake up!!
[smear:#800c4d]"Remember, then, what you received and heard. Keep it, and repent. If you will not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what hour I will come against you". Revelation 3:3[/smear:#0f655c:0]
We cannot be awake to the rapture if we do not ever study it in God's word soooooo Who will be asleep? For sure the unsaved, and sadly perhaps even some Christians.
However, if the rapture were to happen, like some think, after the first half of the 7 years of tribulation ( 3 1/2 years into it), or post tribulation.... then there would not be a surprise factor of Jesus coming like a thief in the night. However, the tribulation will be so unlike anything ever ever in the history of mankind, ( 2/3 rds of mankind will have died for just one example), so people will know it ( they may curse God, but they will know).
And it would be almost comical to be raptured right at the end of the tribulation , only... to come immediately, right back, when Jesus will start his 1000 year reign.
As an aside, I can only imagine the spin fake news will be putting out as explanations:
Gaia kicked all the bad hateful Christians our, or aliens came and took us away, some kind of virus was created to rid the world of the Christians etc. etc.
In any case many will believe the spin whatever it will be:
[smear:#49700d]"Therefore God sends them a strong delusion, so that they may believe what is false" 2 Thessalonians 2:11[/smear:#890e5b:0]
Good, and it's very interesting too! When I think back in history, I suspect that during WW2 with the Holocaust going on, that many thought that the end was in sight then. I'm pretty sure I would have!
Back during Roman rule many people thought Jesus would return then too, especially since He hadn't been gone very long yet. But even back then, homosexuality was greatly encouraged as well as adultery. I don't think they had our names for it, but back then there were many people who would have considered themselves "bi sexual" and "transgender". Of course they couldn't change their sex as drastically as can be done now, but they did all they could at the time. Abortion was also quite big back then as was women's "rights". All those things became bigger and stronger and eventually caused the fall of the Roman Empire. Today they appear to be going to cause the fall of the USA.
Interestingly, there have been some things that have changed since then. Up until a little less then 10 years ago, we always have said that nothing had to happen before the Rapture could take place. That's always been true and is still true. ... BUT, in the last 10 years countries have fallen into places that really shocked people who understood Bible prophecy. (No, I'm not talking about any kind of "new Roman empire") but rather I'm speaking about who various countries were allied with. The way countries and their allies line up now is in accordance with Biblical prophecy! While that didn't have to happen before the rapture, it has happened! That was and is very exciting. What I found interesting about it though was that there was less hoopla about an honest to goodness show of countries lining up with scripture that literally fulfills prophecy, then there was and is about all kinds of various supposed things that people claim fulfills prophecy (which doesn't really!). So in other words, the false things that are not really fulfilling prophecy (like water coming under where the temple was or some such thing like that, or just water in general being found in Israel, or oil in Israel, or earthquakes, etc, ) those things are being spoken about and people get really excited about them, but when something truthfully really did fulfill prophecy, you hardly heard anything about it.
Before I go on, I am sure someone is going to say the word 'rapture' is not in the Bible, and that would be true..... because the Bible was not written in English. Instead the word rapture is from the Latin word rapturo, which is a translation of the Greek verb “caught up” harpazó. It means to snatch up
[smear:#e61943]" Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord". 1 Thessalonians 4:17[/smear:#1e1389:1]
The rapture is not the same as when Christ comes back to earth, when His feet touch the Mount of Olives, and He establishes millennial reign. This is about His coming and meeting believers in the air. There are differences between the rapture and his 2nd coming ( which will probably come up every now and again or maybe I can try to just write a post explaining them).
And this verse will apply;
[smear:#2d7238] “Do not let your heart be troubled; believe in God, believe also in Me. In My Father’s house are many rooms; if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself, that where I am, there you may be also.” John 14: 1-3[/smear:#932a92:1]
There is no judgment and He does not touch the earth at this time. Instead: [smear:#e63119]"For God has not destined us for wrath" ( of the tribulation) I Thessalonians 5:9[/smear:#071641:1]
I am falling asleep again so I will try to work more on this tomorrow.
Sounds good!
Maybe some are confused if they have seen a 'Left Behind' movie, and do not understand why a lot of 'Christians' are left behind? So just in case, someone should wonder what's up with that?
I need to explain that not everybody who goes to church, or even says they are a Christian, is, in fact, a a 'born again' believer...some are 'Christians' in name only.
Briefly, 'born again comes directly from Jesus:
John 3:3 ; 5,6,7 [smear:#9529bf]Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.”...... Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’[/smear:#e61989:1]
Some people have thought because they repeated a prayer then they were saved, but it's more than the words it has to do with trusting in Jesus to save you from your sins, truly wanting and desiring to turn from your sins, and wanting to belong to the Lord, wanting to do, think, say etc. what pleases Him. Hating your sins and your old life ( you are a new creation), sin will continue to come up but it is no longer you hearts desire.It
It is the born again believers that will be raptured from the wrath to come ( the tribulation).
[smear:#7a1993] "Because you have kept my word about patient endurance, I will keep you from the hour of trial that is coming on the whole world, to try those who dwell on the earth". Revelation 3:10[/smear:#16b42b:1]
[smear:#862816] For you yourselves are fully aware that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. While people are saying, “There is peace and security,” then sudden destruction will come upon them as labor pains come upon a pregnant woman, and they will not escape. But you are not in darkness, brothers, for that day to surprise you like a thief. I Thessalonians 5:2-4[/smear:#5cb027:1]
God has patiently allowed sinners to come to Him and sincerely give up their love of sin, but His patience will last only so long, He cannot co-exist with evil and sin....it is only His great love, that has spared us so far....but the day of wrath against sin ( and sinners) is coming, and in the not to distant future.
At this point, I am sure someone is thinking...but but Jesus has been gone for 2000 plus years?
Time is different for humans than it is for God. In fact, 2000 years for God is like 2 days.
[smear:#457e07] "But do not overlook this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day". 2 Peter 3:8[/smear:#970443:1]
Very good! And again interesting too!
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,470
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Post by fearnot on Jan 6, 2020 13:04:47 GMT -5
We were posting at the same time again....so my post for today was above yours. Sooooo I have copied it and will paste it here, so you will be able to find it :)
Maybe now would be a time to explain a little deeper the differences between the Rapture and the 2nd coming of Jesus. There are Christians who do not accept this sort of 2 fold or 2 phases so here are some of the differences:
In the Rapture Jesus comes FOR the believers:
[smear:#1d691d]"After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. " I Thessalonians 4:17[/smear:#bc1d94:3]
In the 2nd coming.....He comes WITH the believers:
[smear:#166574]"The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean". [/smear:#e65e07:1]
Note: This army is made op of both men and angels.
At the Rapture Jesus comes as a bridegroom to take His bride ( the church) out of the world, and to Heaven where He has prepared a place for her.
[smear:#e6192a]John 14:1-3
“Do not let your hearts be troubled. You believe in God; believe also in me. My Father’s house has many rooms; if that were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you? And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am. ”[/smear:#341da3:1]
Also to keep us from the coming wrath:
[smear:#56b321]"......wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead—Jesus, who rescues us from the coming wrath". I Thessalonians 1: 10[/smear:#be2f9f:0]
At the 2nd coming He comes as a King, and establishes His reign of 1,000 years.
Here are some Old Testament prediction of Jesus 2nd coming:
“ And in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that shall never be destroyed, nor shall the kingdom be left to another people. It shall break in pieces all these kingdoms and bring them to an end, and it shall stand forever". Daniel 2
[smear:#6d7916]“I saw in the night visions,
and behold, with the clouds of heaven there came one like a son of man, and he came to the Ancient of Days and was presented before him. And to him was given dominion and glory and a kingdom, that all peoples, nations, and languages should serve him; his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom one that shall not be destroyed". Daniel 7: 13, 14[/smear:#14507a:0]
[smear:#e65a19]"Then shall all the trees of the forest sing for joy before the Lord, for he comes, for he comes to judge the earth. He will judge the world in righteousness, and the peoples in his faithfulness". Psalm 96: 12, 13[/smear:#9719e6:0]
[smear:#70ad12]“And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and supplication. They will look on me, the one they have pierced, and they will mourn for him as one mourns for an only child, and grieve bitterly for him as one grieves for a firstborn son". Zecharian 12: 10[/smear:#d20f43:0]
When Israel will be saved ( the remaining 1/3)
I will do some more tomorrow.
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Post by Cindy on Jan 7, 2020 10:38:25 GMT -5
We were posting at the same time again....so my post for today was above yours. Sooooo I have copied it and will paste it here, so you will be able to find it :)
Maybe now would be a time to explain a little deeper the differences between the Rapture and the 2nd coming of Jesus. There are Christians who do not accept this sort of 2 fold or 2 phases so here are some of the differences:
In the Rapture Jesus comes FOR the believers:
[smear:#1d691d]"After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. " I Thessalonians 4:17[/smear:#bc1d94:3]
In the 2nd coming.....He comes WITH the believers:
[smear:#166574]"The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean". [/smear:#e65e07:1]
Note: This army is made op of both men and angels.
At the Rapture Jesus comes as a bridegroom to take His bride ( the church) out of the world, and to Heaven where He has prepared a place for her.
[smear:#e6192a]John 14:1-3
“Do not let your hearts be troubled. You believe in God; believe also in me. My Father’s house has many rooms; if that were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you? And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am. ”[/smear:#341da3:1]
Also to keep us from the coming wrath:
[smear:#56b321]"......wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead—Jesus, who rescues us from the coming wrath". I Thessalonians 1: 10[/smear:#be2f9f:0]
At the 2nd coming He comes as a King, and establishes His reign of 1,000 years.
Here are some Old Testament prediction of Jesus 2nd coming:
“ And in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that shall never be destroyed, nor shall the kingdom be left to another people. It shall break in pieces all these kingdoms and bring them to an end, and it shall stand forever". Daniel 2
[smear:#6d7916]“I saw in the night visions,
and behold, with the clouds of heaven there came one like a son of man, and he came to the Ancient of Days and was presented before him. And to him was given dominion and glory and a kingdom, that all peoples, nations, and languages should serve him; his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom one that shall not be destroyed". Daniel 7: 13, 14[/smear:#14507a:0]
[smear:#e65a19]"Then shall all the trees of the forest sing for joy before the Lord, for he comes, for he comes to judge the earth. He will judge the world in righteousness, and the peoples in his faithfulness". Psalm 96: 12, 13[/smear:#9719e6:0]
[smear:#70ad12]“And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and supplication. They will look on me, the one they have pierced, and they will mourn for him as one mourns for an only child, and grieve bitterly for him as one grieves for a firstborn son". Zecharian 12: 10[/smear:#d20f43:0]
When Israel will be saved ( the remaining 1/3)
I will do some more tomorrow.
Your other post and this one were both very good, thank you! It's weird because I know I saw it and thought I'd quoted it, but obviously didn't. I must not have selected that post to quote even though I thought I did. it was quite good though.
I'd like to add something I noticed a short time ago as I was studying Isaiah.
It's about these verses: “The LORD says, “The women of Zion are haughty, walking along with outstretched necks, flirting with their eyes, tripping along with mincing steps, with ornaments jingling on their ankles. Therefore the Lord will bring sores on the heads of the women of Zion; the LORD will make their scalps bald.” In that day the Lord will snatch away their finery: the bangles and headbands and crescent necklaces, the earrings and bracelets and veils, the headdresses and ankle chains and sashes, the perfume bottles and charms, the signet rings and nose rings, the fine robes and the capes and cloaks, the purses and mirrors, and the linen garments and tiaras and shawls. Instead of fragrance there will be a stench; instead of a sash, a rope; instead of well-dressed hair, baldness; instead of fine clothing, sackcloth; instead of beauty, branding.” (Isaiah 3:16–24)
MacArthur says: Compare this to: 1 Tim 2:9–11 and 1 Peter 3:3–6. When women cultivate beauty for beauty’s sake, they thereby reflect the moral decay of the nations and detract from the glory of God. Rather than emphasizing outward apparel and activities (Isaiah 1:16–24), ladies should cultivate the beauty of the inner person.
Anyway, it goes on about women and our role in life, the one God ordained for us. What surprised me somewhat was that it really shows how important our role is. When we obey the Lord and are living the way He wants us to, we are literally preventing the moral decay of our nation; but when we are not living according to His Word, we're promoting the moral decay. This makes a lot of sense and we can see it in society today. Because Satan has gotten so many women to give up the role God ordained for them, our country has become morally rotten to the core. And to think that it all starts with women trying to look outwardly "beautiful" which truthfully means to look outwardly "sexy" and not beautiful at all. Because woman aren't concerned with looking pretty, they're concerned with attracting men to themselves. They're like spiders spinning a web....only they don't realize that they've already fallen into Satan's larger web!
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,470
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Post by fearnot on Jan 7, 2020 12:05:56 GMT -5
That was soooo interesting about woman and their role and the result of their choice. Wow!!
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,470
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Post by fearnot on Jan 7, 2020 13:01:47 GMT -5
I don't think I mentioned that 1/3 of the Bible is prophecy, so if we were not to look at end times etc. we would have to ignore 1/3 of the Bible!
Anyway, back to the differences between the rapture and the 2nd coming.
[smear:#1a581a]"For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father’s glory with his angels" Matthew 16:27[/smear:#7a166c:0]
This would be the 2nd coming because He comes with His angels. Also in the 2nd coming Israel will recognized their Messiah ( Jesus) who they had rejected.
[smear:#085e3c]" Look, your house is left to you desolate. For I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, ‘Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord". Matthew 23: 38, 39[/smear:#e619d6:0]
Another difference is that the rapture will not be a public event ( tho the consequences of all those people raptured no doubt will have grave consequences)
However, the 2nd coming is not in secret but as lightening is dramatic and seen so will Jesus 2nd coming be seen all over the world.
[smear:#666613]" For as the lightning comes from the east and shines as far as the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man". Matthew 27:24[/smear:#1a7c7d:0]
[smear:#3a9c0b]" Behold, he is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him, even those who pierced him, and all tribes of the earth will wail on account of him. Even so. Amen". Revelation 1:7[/smear:#e61960:0]
The above verse thus fulfills Acts 1:11 below
[smear:#0f491b]"and said, “Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into heaven? This Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will come in the same way as you saw him go into heaven.”[/smear:#92227e:0]
At the rapture will will get our new bodies [smear:#2c611f] "But our citizenship is in heaven, and from it we await a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ, who will transform our lowly body to be like his glorious body, by the power that enables him even to subject all things to himself". Philippians 3: 20, 21[/smear:#4a1478:3]
There are other verses, but we can see, this is not a subject that is hidden but is all throughout scripture.
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Post by Cindy on Jan 8, 2020 11:06:26 GMT -5
That was soooo interesting about woman and their role and the result of their choice. Wow!! I thought so too. Yet even reading that many women today would still think they should be able to do all that a man does. They just don't get how special women are! They complain because they can't do all that men do and complain because they have to submit to their husband, but they wouldn't mind at all if their husband had to submit to them! To them it's all about a power trip, and that's not at all what God ordained it to be. So any man using it that way is not being the man that God has called him to be. He's outside of God's will. Ironically, many men today are quite happy letting their wife support them and don't mind submitting to their wife at all. It's just disgusting to me because it's so opposite of how it's supposed to be.
I don't think I mentioned that 1/3 of the Bible is prophecy, so if we were not to look at end times etc. we would have to ignore 1/3 of the Bible!
Anyway, back to the differences between the rapture and the 2nd coming.
[smear:#1a581a]"For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father’s glory with his angels" Matthew 16:27[/smear:#7a166c:0]
This would be the 2nd coming because He comes with His angels. Also in the 2nd coming Israel will recognized their Messiah ( Jesus) who they had rejected.
[smear:#085e3c]" Look, your house is left to you desolate. For I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, ‘Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord". Matthew 23: 38, 39[/smear:#e619d6:0]
Another difference is that the rapture will not be a public event ( tho the consequences of all those people raptured no doubt will have grave consequences)
However, the 2nd coming is not in secret but as lightening is dramatic and seen so will Jesus 2nd coming be seen all over the world.
[smear:#666613]" For as the lightning comes from the east and shines as far as the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man". Matthew 27:24[/smear:#1a7c7d:0]
[smear:#3a9c0b]" Behold, he is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him, even those who pierced him, and all tribes of the earth will wail on account of him. Even so. Amen". Revelation 1:7[/smear:#e61960:0]
The above verse thus fulfills Acts 1:11 below
[smear:#0f491b]"and said, “Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into heaven? This Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will come in the same way as you saw him go into heaven.”[/smear:#92227e:0]
At the rapture will will get our new bodies [smear:#2c611f] "But our citizenship is in heaven, and from it we await a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ, who will transform our lowly body to be like his glorious body, by the power that enables him even to subject all things to himself". Philippians 3: 20, 21[/smear:#4a1478:3]
There are other verses, but we can see, this is not a subject that is hidden but is all throughout scripture.
You said: "Another difference is that the rapture will not be a public event ( tho the consequences of all those people raptured no doubt will have grave consequences)
However, the 2nd coming is not in secret but as lightening is dramatic and seen so will Jesus 2nd coming be seen all over the world." and I'm not sure what you mean by a "public event". I've seen teaches compare the rapture and the second coming saying this too and it's always bothered me, because the rapture is not at all "secret" at least not in the sense that we use that word today. Both believers and unbelievers know about the rapture, regardless of whether or not they believe in it or when or how they think it will happen. So with so many people being aware of it, I don't see how anyone could say it's secret. Not even when it happens. For it to be secret when it happens, people would have to simply disappear without a trace, with no one seeing graves disturbed from when the dead rose to meet Christ in the air, and with no one seeing any of the people rise into the air to meet Christ. The most I can say is that it is possible for the rapture to happen that way, even if it isn't probable. Rather then quote the whole article, I'll just give you a link to the article I wrote that shows why I believe the rapture will be quite visible to everyone: Will the Rapture be Invisible? Obviously, if it's visible to all, it's not at all "secret". It just doesn't make sense for it to be invisible, although I admit it does make for good movies.
When Jesus was pointing out that everyone would see Him at His Second Coming, it was to remind us that when people tell us that He's come but we didn't actually see Him return, that it was another false Christ. He was showing the difference between the false Christs and Himself at the second coming. His comments about that had nothing to do with the Rapture.
And the rapture isn't at all hidden in the Bible either, at least not in my Bible. But you'll have to read the article I wrote to see why I believe the rapture will be quite visible to everyone.
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,470
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Post by fearnot on Jan 8, 2020 11:18:56 GMT -5
I will read your article.....I always love reading your work! :)
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,470
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Post by fearnot on Jan 8, 2020 12:39:48 GMT -5
Perhaps someone may wonder about what exactly shall we do with the knowledge there is going to be a rapture ( maybe sooner than we even think)?
Well, as a believer it is our blessed hope, and if we know it is true, it will effect the way we live.
I know for myself anyway, as each day goes by, I feel a desire to, in any way possible, to spread the gospel.
Tho I cannot just grab a neighbor and start talking to them, I can make an effort, to be as much of a friend to them ( without joining the world), so that perhaps soon, they might come to me with their most pressing issues, and I can point them to Jesus.
With the knowledge of the rapture, we will begin to pattern our lives ( believing in the blessed hope that Jesus has promised us) and become more like this verse states:
[smear:#631b46]"For I am already being poured out like a drink offering, and the time for my departure is near. I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith. 2 Timothy 4: 6.7[/smear:#195650:2]
Also:
[smear:#8d352c]"Beloved, we are God's children now, and what we will be has not yet appeared; but we know that when he appears we shall be like him, because we shall see him as he is. And everyone who thus hopes in him purifies himself as he is pure.[/smear:#6d3f86:1]
Sometimes believers in the rapture are accused of doing nothing, but they are just waiting to get out of here..... And sadly and truly, there are times when that accusation is true for me!!
But this is NOT what God wants us to do. Yes, we are to be alert , looking and waiting for Him.... but we are also to spread the good news, and [smear:#b42c02]"Engage in business until I come"[/smear:#323377:1] ( it's funny I learned this verse as 'occupy ',instead of engage in business... so it was hard to find the ESV verse....not knowing the exact words.....LOL
but the meaning is the same....
we are not to be do nothing believers We love our family, friends, neighbors etc. and its our hearts desire they will be saved and with the Lord Jesus forever in eternity.
Tho we are waiting with baited breath for Him ( Jesus) Still He has said to us:
[smear:#1db11d]"And he said to them, “Go into all the world and proclaim the gospel to the whole creation". Mark 16: 15[/smear:#e61937:2]
[smear:#4d9b46]" For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people, training us to renounce ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright, and godly lives in the present age, waiting for our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ"[/smear:#62094b:1]
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,470
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Post by fearnot on Jan 9, 2020 11:45:30 GMT -5
Knowing there will be a rapture, is not so much about a red circle date on a calendar, but rather for us to build character by being in the Word, prayer, being obedient etc.
We need to be careful we are not controlled by our emotions, neither fear and anxiety, nor over excitement and desire ( when God has us still here for a purpose).
We are not to let lies shake us, because we know the truth. We know there will be a rapture coming and a time of 7 years of tribulation and then Jesus will come a 2nd time to earth....so there are events that must happen before that..... So we need not be confused:
[smear:#29941b]"Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to him, we ask you, brothers, not to be quickly shaken in mind or alarmed, either by a spirit or a spoken word, or a letter seeming to be from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first....." 2 Thessalonians 2: 1-3[/smear:#a10721:1]
I will look at the tribulation and what those things that must happen in awhile. But we have to be careful because satan will always try to deceive us, and put fear and confusion in our hearts and minds, which is why we need to stay daily in God's Word!
The Thessalonians were shaken because they had received a false letter with false information. This reminds me of 'fake news'....we seem to have a lot of that today so we can really relate.
It seems whoever wrote that letter was either claiming to have gotten a 'special' message from a 'spirit' ( which was a lying spirit, also know as a demon) and also false information came by perhaps by a self-appointed prophet.
[smear:#e65219]"Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world. By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you heard was coming and now is in the world already". I John 4: 1-3[/smear:#7630c2:1]
Instead what we need to do is to be like the Bereans [smear:#99a416]
"Now these Jews were more noble than those in Thessalonica; they received the word with all eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see if these things were so" Acts 17:11[/smear:#e61932:0]
We are not to hide our head in the sand and ignore what God has said about end times, nor are we to listen to every 'prophet' ( use care of words from men and putting their word over God's), but rather be in prayer and in the Word ( the Bible).
[smear:#228555]"....So then let us not sleep, as others do, but let us keep awake and be sober." I Thessalonians 5:6[/smear:#e67619:1]
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Post by Cindy on Jan 9, 2020 13:02:51 GMT -5
I will read your article.....I always love reading your work! :)
After you have please share what you think here too, ok?
Perhaps someone may wonder about what exactly shall we do with the knowledge there is going to be a rapture ( maybe sooner than we even think)?
Well, as a believer it is our blessed hope, and if we know it is true, it will effect the way we live.
I know for myself anyway, as each day goes by, I feel a desire to, in any way possible, to spread the gospel.
Tho I cannot just grab a neighbor and start talking to them, I can make an effort, to be as much of a friend to them ( without joining the world), so that perhaps soon, they might come to me with their most pressing issues, and I can point them to Jesus.
With the knowledge of the rapture, we will begin to pattern our lives ( believing in the blessed hope that Jesus has promised us) and become more like this verse states:
[smear:#631b46]"For I am already being poured out like a drink offering, and the time for my departure is near. I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith. 2 Timothy 4: 6.7[/smear:#195650:2]
Also:
[smear:#8d352c]"Beloved, we are God's children now, and what we will be has not yet appeared; but we know that when he appears we shall be like him, because we shall see him as he is. And everyone who thus hopes in him purifies himself as he is pure.[/smear:#6d3f86:1]
Sometimes believers in the rapture are accused of doing nothing, but they are just waiting to get out of here..... And sadly and truly, there are times when that accusation is true for me!!
But this is NOT what God wants us to do. Yes, we are to be alert , looking and waiting for Him.... but we are also to spread the good news, and [smear:#b42c02]"Engage in business until I come"[/smear:#323377:1] ( it's funny I learned this verse as 'occupy ',instead of engage in business... so it was hard to find the ESV verse....not knowing the exact words.....LOL
but the meaning is the same....
we are not to be do nothing believers We love our family, friends, neighbors etc. and its our hearts desire they will be saved and with the Lord Jesus forever in eternity.
Tho we are waiting with baited breath for Him ( Jesus) Still He has said to us:
[smear:#1db11d]"And he said to them, “Go into all the world and proclaim the gospel to the whole creation". Mark 16: 15[/smear:#e61937:2]
[smear:#4d9b46]" For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people, training us to renounce ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright, and godly lives in the present age, waiting for our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ"[/smear:#62094b:1]
well said!
Knowing there will be a rapture, is not so much about a red circle date on a calendar, but rather for us to build character by being in the Word, prayer, being obedient etc.
We need to be careful we are not controlled by our emotions, neither fear and anxiety, nor over excitement and desire ( when God has us still here for a purpose).
We are not to let lies shake us, because we know the truth. We know there will be a rapture coming and a time of 7 years of tribulation and then Jesus will come a 2nd time to earth....so there are events that must happen before that..... So we need not be confused:
[smear:#29941b]"Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to him, we ask you, brothers, not to be quickly shaken in mind or alarmed, either by a spirit or a spoken word, or a letter seeming to be from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first....." 2 Thessalonians 2: 1-3[/smear:#a10721:1]
I will look at the tribulation and what those things that must happen in awhile. But we have to be careful because satan will always try to deceive us, and put fear and confusion in our hearts and minds, which is why we need to stay daily in God's Word!
The Thessalonians were shaken because they had received a false letter with false information. This reminds me of 'fake news'....we seem to have a lot of that today so we can really relate.
It seems whoever wrote that letter was either claiming to have gotten a 'special' message from a 'spirit' ( which was a lying spirit, also know as a demon) and also false information came by perhaps by a self-appointed prophet.
[smear:#e65219]"Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world. By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you heard was coming and now is in the world already". I John 4: 1-3[/smear:#7630c2:1]
Instead what we need to do is to be like the Bereans [smear:#99a416]
"Now these Jews were more noble than those in Thessalonica; they received the word with all eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see if these things were so" Acts 17:11[/smear:#e61932:0]
We are not to hide our head in the sand and ignore what God has said about end times, nor are we to listen to every 'prophet' ( use care of words from men and putting their word over God's), but rather be in prayer and in the Word ( the Bible).
[smear:#228555]"....So then let us not sleep, as others do, but let us keep awake and be sober." I Thessalonians 5:6[/smear:#e67619:1]
Well done! The letter the Thessalonians got was by someone pretending they were Paul. So Satan was really trying hard to mess them up. But the Lord protected them and Paul found out about it and was able to remind them of the Truth's he'd taught them. From then on, he was careful to prove who he was in his letters so there'd be no doubt.
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,470
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Post by fearnot on Jan 9, 2020 13:53:37 GMT -5
So I read you post on if people would see the rapture or not...and it turns out I had read it before, nevertheless, it was good to read it again. I guess, I must not have totally 'got' it the first time around :( This time I got that the dentures, and clothes etc 'left behind' was more for a more dramatic cinematic effect! But in reality when God changes us, those things will be done.
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