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Post by Cindy on Feb 7, 2020 11:50:21 GMT -5
I agree, there may be more plagues, but we just haven't heard about them....yet.
But this is also a news headline ( which seems to point to a famine?)
"360 Billion Locusts And Growing – A Plague Of ‘Biblical Proportions’ Is Destroying Crops Across The Middle East And Africa"
Note the of 'Biblical Proportions' in the headline!!
I read the swarms are 40 miles wide and can travel 93 miles in a day.
Note, there are maybe 8 billion humans to 360 billion locusts!! But here is the even worse news.....they multiply.....this number could continue to grow!!! And they can continue to spread!!!
These locusts right now are in Africa and the Middle East....
in fact:
" the government of Pakistan just declared a national emergency"
"Somalia’s agriculture ministry on Sunday called the outbreak a national emergency and major threat to the country’s fragile food security, saying the “uncommonly large” locust swarms are consuming huge amounts of crops".
The article I read about this was by Michael Snyder.
Good! Yes, I've noticed that many secular news agency have been using terms like "biblical Proportions" and other similar ones for the last year or so.
I'm afraid I don't recognize the name "Michael Snyder", was I supposed to?
I know that some folks read this kind of news and get excited, while others get scared, and others get worried.... It doesn't do any of that to me. It's not scary because for one thing I don't know if the news I'm reading is true and real or not, therefore it doesn't worry me either. Plus, even if it turned out to be true, it doesn't make any difference in my life at all. I know that no matter what happens, or when anything happens, that God will take care of me. It's kind of funny because some people can't understand how I can get through my day not knowing what the current news is. Yet before TV was invented, most people did just fine not knowing the national or world news!
Today is our once a month shopping day ( and tho I read and studied earlier....this study today here, will probably be shorter.
Yesterday I mentioned the persecution and killing of the Christian Martyrs during the tribulation which kind of went with the the red horse seal: [smear:#53e619] "......that people should slay one another...... Revelation 6:4[/smear:#e61989:0]
But do the people regret their murders ( that mean multiple murders....not just one) No they do not: [smear:#e619bd] "..... nor did they repent of their murders...." Revelation 9:21 [/smear:#19e61c:0]
These people will be killed because of the Word of God. They will be pointing out that what was happening was all predicted in the Bible, but many of the unsaved will not want to hear it, to the point they will actually commit murder.
[smear:#050f1a]"the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the witness they had borne" Revelation 6:9[/smear:#c80a1e:0]
These believers were not just pointing out that all this was predicted in the Bible but also salvation thru Jesus....and that He is coming again!! This will enrage many.....we see this happening in the world today as Christians are the most persecuted group in the world.
Many during the tribulation will be beheaded because of God's Word. [smear:#0e5e5a] "Also I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands". Revelation 20:4[/smear:#63b70d:0]
True and I find it interesting that until recently, we hadn't heard anything remotely like a "beheading". But then suddenly, the Islamic terrorists began to behead Christians, even video taping it and putting it on line! Another amazing coincidence? Hardly! For one thing there's no such thing as a coincidence because God is in control all the time. So the fact that we are once again seeing people losing their heads, is another indicator that Jesus will be coming for us soon. Yesterday was a first, in that, a year ago Leonard had signed up for some 10 day trial on the net.
But.....they they put in a charge, and he called our bank and the company to get the charges reversed.
Well, what we did not know when we went shopping was.....the bank put a freeze on our account......( when we got back he called bank and got the freeze removed as well as the charge)
Sooooo today we will go shopping, so another day of studying this morning and a shorter one on here.
I do not know if this is true or not, but there is a screen shot that Taiwan posted that ( could be a conspiracy or....) showing an error concerning the numbers of people infected in China and the number of deaths.....being MUCH MUCH higher.......Chinese government said it was a human error.
Still, I continue to wonder if maybe they can't either actually test all the people due to supplies being limited and so on. I guess we will maybe find out at some point.
The supposed 'correct' numbers are now at: 28,353 infected and 565 deaths. How does it make you feel to have learned that information? Do you feel differently about the corona virus and the possibility of people in the US getting sick then you did before learning this information? In what way do you feel differently?
If this information is making you feel nervous, frightened, fearful, worried, etc. then you need to stay away from wherever you're hearing or reading this kind of information.... including the news if that's where it's coming from. Trust me.... the world will continue on the same path (nothing will change) regardless of whether you've heard the lasted local, state, and national news. Well, actually the only change will be that you won't be concerned or worried
I don't know if it's a conspiracy theory or not. Generally a conspiracy theories would include: 1. the government or someone in the government is lying to people 2. (depending on where the conspiracy theory is from) If it's a Chinese conspiracy theory then the Chinese government would be lying because they're trying to harm a certain percentage of the people or a certain type of person (maybe all Christians or something like that) Or perhaps they're trying to harm people in other countries. If it's a US conspiracy theory then it would be the US government lying (although they could say that the Chinese government is also lying) and the reason would be because they want to harm some segment of the population. 3. generally the evidence showing that what they're saying is true is very circumstantial and never concrete. Oh, they may say it's concrete, but no one can ever actually see that evidence for some reason.
Sorry to hear about the mix up with your card. I'm sure that was frustrating.
Revelation 6:12-17 marks a change, because the Tribulations seals up to this point had to do with men themselves through war etc. bringing death, destruction etc.
But now, God's wrath begins.
[smear:#096648]'12 When he opened the sixth seal, I looked, and behold, there was a great earthquake, and the sun became black as sackcloth, the full moon became like blood, 13 and the stars of the sky fell to the earth as the fig tree sheds its winter fruit when shaken by a gale. 14 The sky vanished like a scroll that is being rolled up, and every mountain and island was removed from its place. 15 Then the kings of the earth and the great ones and the generals and the rich and the powerful, and everyone, slave and free, hid themselves in the caves and among the rocks of the mountains, 16 calling to the mountains and rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who is seated on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb, 17 for the great day of their wrath has come, and who can stand?” Revelation 6:12-17[/smear:#b53509:0]
Two things stand out to me at first, one is the earthquake......we have had lots of earthquakes, but this one during the Tribulation, has got to be the worst ever....and it does say, it will be great.
I think we have been seeing earthquakes getting stronger and it seems like more of the really big ones.....in any case, I don't think God would mention a normal earthquake during this time.
Back to this earthquake but the second thing is the 'fear' factor that is caused. People now finally seem to 'get' that this is from God....and they are extremely afraid knowing now:
[smear:#53a705]“30....The Lord will judge his people. 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God". Hebrews 10:30,31[/smear:#e619ca:0]
They are so terrified that they actually will try to hid to avoid God's judgment ( but seemingly not turn to Him)
[smear:#240b3f]"....hid themselves in the caves and among the rocks of the mountains, 16 calling to the mountains and rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who is seated on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb, 17 for the great day of their wrath has come, and who can stand?” Revelation 6:15-17[/smear:#e63d19:0]
And if they will not turn to the Lord and be saved, then they do need to fear God, as Jesus said: [smear:#68740e] "5 But I will warn you whom to fear: fear him who, after he has killed, has authority to cast into hell. Yes, I tell you, fear him"! Luke 12:5[/smear:#0b7076:0]
Further, Jesus said: [smear:#0e7740] " 26 people fainting with fear and with foreboding of what is coming on the world". Luke 21:[/smear:#e61981:0]
I think many people are getting a bit more uneasy, they are not totally awake, but in the back of their minds, they are 'hearing' of famines, and plagues, and fires, and earthquakes, etc etc etc.
I also think many who are over the age of 10 or 20, can look back, and say, (on many levels) things do seem to be increasing.
It is NOT 'just' that we are getting waaaaaaay more news, due to the internet, because that is certain ( and sometimes that in itself causes more anxiety) , but I really believe there is total truth that there are many unprecedented, never before, Biblical proportion of all manner of things ever increasing.
Some folks want to blame climate change, mankind, and other 'natural' ( or unnatural) causes, But the day is coming, when they will know ,that God will finally stop being patient and start His judgments.
And yet, even then, God has mercy, and many will be saved. In some ways, the tribulation as terrible as it will be, has a kind of 'blessing' in that many will finally wake up to the truth and be saved. I will try to look at the above verses a little closer tomorrow.
Good! Looking forward to what you'll have to say tomorrow too!
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,609
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Post by fearnot on Feb 7, 2020 12:49:59 GMT -5
No I actually am not in the least, anxious about the corona virus. I am not tracking it hoping to see more and more get sick either. Which I think, maybe some non-believers might think that some Christians are doing when looking at world events, in order to see the birth pains increasing. I can see them feeling some Christians relish the pain and sorrows of the evil sin produces.
Strange you should ask about being anxious tho. I actually was thinking about that this very morning.
When I was younger, I was almost always depressed ( self-centered, self-pity, etc.)
And even as I got older, tho depression lessened a lot when I became a Christian, it still plagued me, just not as much or as severe.
Plus, I worked at taking my thoughts captive and replacing them with scripture.
And yes, in a way, it had to do with seeing sin showing its true colors, as I would see in the news ( which always seemed to be bad, almost never 'good' news...but then, sin can never give 'good' news).
But then, the first thing, that began to change my depression about the 'news' was that it did prove the Bible..... and just that alone, was uplifting rather than depressing.
But this morning I was thinking, that nevertheless, depression was still tied to 'this' world..... living with the morals declining which seems to the point of no return.... ( or at least, sin is being so out in the open, and trying to pull even the smallest child into it in a despicable way etc etc etc.) We are born sinners, but no children are being educated into greater and greater sin, at a much faster rate.
And tho I still hate sin (staring with my own)
I began to think, I am not forever 'stuck' with ever growing sin, God is going to intervene
( and tho I would that all would be saved, I can't make people be saved, I can only pray, present the gospel when the chance comes etc.)
But, the other uplifting truth, is this all is going to end.... and God will make a new Heaven, a new earth a new universe...that is what I am destined for.
On the off hand chance this virus, or another coming one, should be the cause of my death ( before the rapture), then I am going to be with the Lord ( can't have a better thought than that!!!).
At this point we only have 12 infected people in the US so chances look very low right now of getting this virus.....but I realize that could change.
I keep hearing that the flu kills many more people and while that is true... so far.... after all the flu has had a longer time and there are vaccines, etc.
What is different, is it does not appear that I ever heard, that China quarantined millions of people because of a flu outbreak each year. I think the issue is this is a 'new' virus, and no vaccine at this point.
Scared I am not, but because the Bible does mention plagues as one of the increasing signs, I am just watching it....
almost in a scientific manner ( something I am NOT ...I am NOT a scientist....LOL) As an artist, science and math were 'boring'.... Literature, music, art, etc. were what I really liked.
But this is an issue, and I am also interested in the steps they are taking to confine this virus....
I do think quarantines are good and do stop infections...... but there also seems to me, they 'could', perhaps, be ( here comes my tendency towards conspiracies) be misused.... I have nothing to base that on...it's just a thought.
The reason I personally wondered about if China's government could be giving lower numbers...is like I mentioned before, not enough supplies to test so many people
And also, I am still under the impression that part of the Chinese culture is to save face.... but especially, because their leader Xi Jinping 'seems' to perhaps be reaching for a god like status according to some...( true or a conspiracy??)
IF that is true, then, not having control over this plague would not help his status
( and it would remind me of pharaoh in the Old Testament).
But as always who know what is real news or fake any more.....
other than what God says in the Bible.
I think it makes sense to keep at least an eye on this virus, and I have been praying for the people in China especially....
I think the idea of washing hands more and more thoroughly at any time ...is a good practice and this just reminded me to wash a little longer etc.
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,609
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Post by fearnot on Feb 7, 2020 13:55:58 GMT -5
So back to what I was looking at yesterday.
[smear:#c92607]12 "When he opened the sixth seal, I looked, and behold, there was a great earthquake, and the sun became black as sackcloth, the full moon became like blood, 13 and the stars of the sky fell to the earth as the fig tree sheds its winter fruit when shaken by a gale. 14 The sky vanished like a scroll that is being rolled up, and every mountain and island was removed from its place. 15 Then the kings of the earth and the great ones and the generals and the rich and the powerful, and everyone, slave and free, hid themselves in the caves and among the rocks of the mountains, 16 calling to the mountains and rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who is seated on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb, 17 for the great day of their wrath has come, and who can stand?” Revelation 6:12-17[/smear:#26e619:0]
One reason I think this is a world wide earthquake, is that even tho there are other earthquakes mentioned in Revelation etc. For example [smear:#e619aa] "13 And at that hour there was a great earthquake, and a tenth of the city fell. Seven thousand people were killed in the earthquake, and the rest were terrified and gave glory to the God of heaven." Revelation 11:13[/smear:#6219e6:0]
This one mentioned is local and specific.....it happens in Jerusalem and tho 'great' , it even tells how many people will be killed and how many buildings will be damaged.
But the earthquake in Revelation 6:12 has different qualities altogether!! The idea is all of the earth's faults lines fracture simultaneously. I thinking something similar may have happened before :
[smear:#45a207]"To Eber were born two sons: the name of the one was Peleg (for in his days the earth was divided)..." 1 Chronicles 1:19[/smear:#0b38a8:0]
Furthermore some scientist believe that all of the land masses of the earth were once connected as one giant super-continent, and some of the continents do look like they could fit together like giant puzzle pieces ....take Africa and South America for one example.
Also, it is possible that this verse in Genesis is possibly referring to such a super continent ( known as the theory of Pangea):
[smear:#32e619]"And God said, “Let the waters under the heavens be gathered together into one place, and let the dry land appear...." Genesis 1:9[/smear:#e6193f:0]
I just mention these verses and theory, for any naysayers, who might think such a thing could not happen.....but God can make anything to happen.
But when such an earthquakes will happen, there will also be massive volcanic eruptions, and the ash thrown into the sky all over the earth will be so great world wide that:
[smear:#e61922]"...the sun became black as sackcloth, the full moon became like blood", [/smear:#19e624:0]
The ash will blot out the sun and the moon will take on a red hue.
I have to admit for a time ( until I read John MacArthur giving the correct language definition of 'stars') I had a hard time with this part:
[smear:#e61922]"....and the stars of the sky fell to the earth..." Revelation 6:13 [/smear:#3519e6:0]
Of course if 'stars' meant only suns....that could be a problem because most suns are so huge one could fit tons of 'earths' into just one 'star' so we would be toast before even one got close to our planet!!
However, even in our English language definition of 'star' is :
1) a natural luminous body visible in the sky especially at night
So basically any large or small celestial body
in this case perhaps meteors or comets....not suns.
Then: [smear:#580d16]"The sky vanished like a scroll that is being rolled up...." Revelation 6:14[/smear:#11b5ab:0]
Having not gone thru the tribulation, I am not exactly sure what this will be exactly, but it seems like the earths atmosphere is going to be so greatly affected that it will at the very least, seem to disappear, in some fashion.
the 2nd half of verse 14
[smear:#0f0955]"....and every mountain and island was removed from its place." Revelation 6:14[/smear:#e619a1:0]
Shows the realignment of the earth's continents.
All of these things are going to cause tremendous fear of all people and they will KNOW it is God!!
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,609
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Post by fearnot on Feb 8, 2020 12:43:03 GMT -5
A bit more on the 6th seal of Revelation 6
1[smear:#186427]2 When he opened the sixth seal, I looked, and behold, there was a great earthquake, and the sun became black as sackcloth, the full moon became like blood, 13 and the stars of the sky fell to the earth as the fig tree sheds its winter fruit when shaken by a gale. 14 The sky vanished like a scroll that is being rolled up, and every mountain and island was removed from its place. 15 Then the kings of the earth and the great ones and the generals and the rich and the powerful, and everyone, slave and free, hid themselves in the caves and among the rocks of the mountains, 16 calling to the mountains and rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who is seated on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb, 17 for the great day of their wrath has come, and who can stand?” Revelation 6:12-17[/smear:#e61958:1]
I have mentioned some of the Old Testament references and other New Testament books that refer to the end times and tribulation, for those who might still think that Revelation is too hard and the only place where God talks about this coming time..... I just ran across another one, I don't think I posted:
[smear:#720d62]30 “And I will show wonders in the heavens and on the earth, blood and fire and columns of smoke. 31 The sun shall be turned to darkness, and the moon to blood, before the great and awesome day of the Lord comes. 32 And it shall come to pass that everyone who calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved. For in Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there shall be those who escape, as the Lord has said, and among the survivors shall be those whom the Lord calls". Joel 2:31[/smear:#1ee619:1]
And concerning men's tremendous fear as a result of this seal, here is an OT passage:
[smear:#e64a19]19 "And people shall enter the caves of the rocks and the holes of the ground, from before the terror of the Lord, and from the splendor of his majesty, when he rises to terrify the earth.....
21 to enter the caverns of the rocks and the clefts of the cliffs, from before the terror of the Lord, and from the splendor of his majesty, when he rises to terrify the earth. 22 Stop regarding man in whose nostrils is breath, for of what account is he"? Isaiah 2:19,21,22[/smear:#117a77:0]
Also here is one from Hosea:
[smear:#3119e6]"......and they shall say to the mountains, “Cover us,” and to the hills, “Fall on us.” Hosea 10:8[/smear:#e61934:0]
and then this from Jesus in the NT book of Luke:
[smear:#129e34]30 "Then they will begin to say to the mountains, ‘Fall on us,’ and to the hills, ‘Cover us.’ Luke 23:30[/smear:#b2118f:0]
So this idea of overwhelming fear beginning to take place during the 6th seal is related to the understanding that this is a judgement from God.
I think Psalm 76 puts it in perspective, tho it is God's judgment, He is still merciful and wanting to save those that will humble themselves. [smear:#e6199d] "7 But you, you are to be feared! Who can stand before you when once your anger is roused? 8 From the heavens you uttered judgment; the earth feared and was still, 9 when God arose to establish judgment, to save all the humble of the earth". Psalm 76:7-9[/smear:#288b31:1]
So what should we do?
[smear:#b94109]"34 “But watch yourselves lest your hearts be weighed down with dissipation and drunkenness and cares of this life, and that day come upon you suddenly like a trap. 35 For it will come upon all who dwell on the face of the whole earth. 36 But stay awake at all times, praying that you may have strength to escape all these things that are going to take place, and to stand before the Son of Man.” Luke 21:34-36[/smear:#6f9d13:0]
I am just speculating....why do so many want to rocks to fall on them? It sounds to me like a way of suicide....the thinking that if I die, the fear will be all over. I think to those who do not believe in God or an afterlife, this will sound like relief...only one small problem, they are now in such fear, because they realize for sure there is a God.
Also wondering and speculating why rocks? Why not shoot themselves or take some kind of poison? I wonder.....will it be that part of producing a short term kind of 'peace' the anti-Christ, was finally able to enact what so many believe will stop most of the murders, by either confiscating all guns, or having everyone give them up...? And because of the war, and famine etc. there is limited supply of 'poison'?
Also in correspondence with the Revelation 6 passage Jesus said in Luke
11 There will be great earthquakes, and in various places famines and pestilences. And there will be terrors and great signs from heaven". Luke 21:11
So today many people might think things like, the sky changing etc., foolish, fanciful, silly etc. After all, the sky has always been as it is today, it does not change and has not etc.
[smear:#e6194a]"......all things are continuing as they were from the beginning of creation". 2 Peter 3:4[/smear:#2419e6:3]
And yet, the Bible indicates that before Noah's flood, the earth was different, and I am thinking that included the sky in some way Because there was no rain.....until the flood. Some have even speculated that this somehow added to much longer lives ( because human life did decrease in length of longevity after the flood). I would also think, that as sin increased, that also shortened humans life span.
It is not a big jump or hard to understand, that as our world speed thru the galaxy we run into many comets, and asteroids ( or they surprise us, and run into our planet).
"The number of asteroids nearly missing Earth has increased in the past few decades, a NASA study showed.
According to a report, a NASA video showcased all known asteroids that passed through our solar system from Jan. 1, 1999, to Jan. 31, 2018 and it showed just how many near-Earth collisions occurred during the last two decades." Lorraine Lorenzo
And here is another news article 9 I totally disregard the time frame, being a young earth believer but anyway.....
"Collisions have increased by up to three times over the past 290 million years, scientists find"
and this one also just to point out one more:
"Earth may be threatened by a newly discovered branch of a stream of meteoroids, increasing the risk that the planet will be struck by a meteoroid or asteroid.
A team of astronomers from the Czech Academy of Sciences announced the findings on Tuesday after studying the Taurid meteoroid stream". Elizabeth Howell
But more importantly, is what God is going to make happen!! The scientists of today realize that these things are going to happen, and frankly all they had to do was to read the Bible even as far back as a thousand, or 2 thousand or more years ago, and they would have already known these things will happen. But not all people will repent even with so much knowledge instead:
[smear:#123257]".....cursed the God of heaven for their pain and sores. They did not repent of their deeds." Revelation 16:11[/smear:#115f15:0]
And also: [smear:#227561] "11 Therefore God sends them a strong delusion, so that they may believe what is false, 12 in order that all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness"
2 Thessalonias 2:11,12[/smear:#e619cd:0]
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Post by Cindy on Feb 10, 2020 13:04:14 GMT -5
No I actually am not in the least, anxious about the corona virus. I am not tracking it hoping to see more and more get sick either. Which I think, maybe some non-believers might think that some Christians are doing when looking at world events, in order to see the birth pains increasing. I can see them feeling some Christians relish the pain and sorrows of the evil sin produces.
Strange you should ask about being anxious tho. I actually was thinking about that this very morning.
When I was younger, I was almost always depressed ( self-centered, self-pity, etc.)
And even as I got older, tho depression lessened a lot when I became a Christian, it still plagued me, just not as much or as severe.
Plus, I worked at taking my thoughts captive and replacing them with scripture.
And yes, in a way, it had to do with seeing sin showing its true colors, as I would see in the news ( which always seemed to be bad, almost never 'good' news...but then, sin can never give 'good' news).
But then, the first thing, that began to change my depression about the 'news' was that it did prove the Bible..... and just that alone, was uplifting rather than depressing.
But this morning I was thinking, that nevertheless, depression was still tied to 'this' world..... living with the morals declining which seems to the point of no return.... ( or at least, sin is being so out in the open, and trying to pull even the smallest child into it in a despicable way etc etc etc.) We are born sinners, but no children are being educated into greater and greater sin, at a much faster rate.
And tho I still hate sin (staring with my own)
I began to think, I am not forever 'stuck' with ever growing sin, God is going to intervene
( and tho I would that all would be saved, I can't make people be saved, I can only pray, present the gospel when the chance comes etc.)
But, the other uplifting truth, is this all is going to end.... and God will make a new Heaven, a new earth a new universe...that is what I am destined for.
On the off hand chance this virus, or another coming one, should be the cause of my death ( before the rapture), then I am going to be with the Lord ( can't have a better thought than that!!!).
At this point we only have 12 infected people in the US so chances look very low right now of getting this virus.....but I realize that could change.
I keep hearing that the flu kills many more people and while that is true... so far.... after all the flu has had a longer time and there are vaccines, etc.
What is different, is it does not appear that I ever heard, that China quarantined millions of people because of a flu outbreak each year. I think the issue is this is a 'new' virus, and no vaccine at this point.
Scared I am not, but because the Bible does mention plagues as one of the increasing signs, I am just watching it....
almost in a scientific manner ( something I am NOT ...I am NOT a scientist....LOL) As an artist, science and math were 'boring'.... Literature, music, art, etc. were what I really liked.
But this is an issue, and I am also interested in the steps they are taking to confine this virus....
I do think quarantines are good and do stop infections...... but there also seems to me, they 'could', perhaps, be ( here comes my tendency towards conspiracies) be misused.... I have nothing to base that on...it's just a thought.
The reason I personally wondered about if China's government could be giving lower numbers...is like I mentioned before, not enough supplies to test so many people
And also, I am still under the impression that part of the Chinese culture is to save face.... but especially, because their leader Xi Jinping 'seems' to perhaps be reaching for a god like status according to some...( true or a conspiracy??)
IF that is true, then, not having control over this plague would not help his status
( and it would remind me of pharaoh in the Old Testament).
But as always who know what is real news or fake any more.....
other than what God says in the Bible.
I think it makes sense to keep at least an eye on this virus, and I have been praying for the people in China especially....
I think the idea of washing hands more and more thoroughly at any time ...is a good practice and this just reminded me to wash a little longer etc. Sounds good hon.
So back to what I was looking at yesterday.
[smear:#c92607]12 "When he opened the sixth seal, I looked, and behold, there was a great earthquake, and the sun became black as sackcloth, the full moon became like blood, 13 and the stars of the sky fell to the earth as the fig tree sheds its winter fruit when shaken by a gale. 14 The sky vanished like a scroll that is being rolled up, and every mountain and island was removed from its place. 15 Then the kings of the earth and the great ones and the generals and the rich and the powerful, and everyone, slave and free, hid themselves in the caves and among the rocks of the mountains, 16 calling to the mountains and rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who is seated on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb, 17 for the great day of their wrath has come, and who can stand?” Revelation 6:12-17[/smear:#26e619:0]
One reason I think this is a world wide earthquake, is that even tho there are other earthquakes mentioned in Revelation etc. For example [smear:#e619aa] "13 And at that hour there was a great earthquake, and a tenth of the city fell. Seven thousand people were killed in the earthquake, and the rest were terrified and gave glory to the God of heaven." Revelation 11:13[/smear:#6219e6:0]
This one mentioned is local and specific.....it happens in Jerusalem and tho 'great' , it even tells how many people will be killed and how many buildings will be damaged.
But the earthquake in Revelation 6:12 has different qualities altogether!! The idea is all of the earth's faults lines fracture simultaneously. I thinking something similar may have happened before :
[smear:#45a207]"To Eber were born two sons: the name of the one was Peleg (for in his days the earth was divided)..." 1 Chronicles 1:19[/smear:#0b38a8:0]
Furthermore some scientist believe that all of the land masses of the earth were once connected as one giant super-continent, and some of the continents do look like they could fit together like giant puzzle pieces ....take Africa and South America for one example.
Also, it is possible that this verse in Genesis is possibly referring to such a super continent ( known as the theory of Pangea):
[smear:#32e619]"And God said, “Let the waters under the heavens be gathered together into one place, and let the dry land appear...." Genesis 1:9[/smear:#e6193f:0]
I just mention these verses and theory, for any naysayers, who might think such a thing could not happen.....but God can make anything to happen.
But when such an earthquakes will happen, there will also be massive volcanic eruptions, and the ash thrown into the sky all over the earth will be so great world wide that:
[smear:#e61922]"...the sun became black as sackcloth, the full moon became like blood", [/smear:#19e624:0]
The ash will blot out the sun and the moon will take on a red hue.
I have to admit for a time ( until I read John MacArthur giving the correct language definition of 'stars') I had a hard time with this part:
[smear:#e61922]"....and the stars of the sky fell to the earth..." Revelation 6:13 [/smear:#3519e6:0]
Of course if 'stars' meant only suns....that could be a problem because most suns are so huge one could fit tons of 'earths' into just one 'star' so we would be toast before even one got close to our planet!!
However, even in our English language definition of 'star' is :
1) a natural luminous body visible in the sky especially at night
So basically any large or small celestial body
in this case perhaps meteors or comets....not suns.
Then: [smear:#580d16]"The sky vanished like a scroll that is being rolled up...." Revelation 6:14[/smear:#11b5ab:0]
Having not gone thru the tribulation, I am not exactly sure what this will be exactly, but it seems like the earths atmosphere is going to be so greatly affected that it will at the very least, seem to disappear, in some fashion.
the 2nd half of verse 14
[smear:#0f0955]"....and every mountain and island was removed from its place." Revelation 6:14[/smear:#e619a1:0]
Shows the realignment of the earth's continents.
All of these things are going to cause tremendous fear of all people and they will KNOW it is God!!
Good!
Overwhelming fear is caused by what comes from the 6th seal being opened. “Men will faint from terror, apprehensive of what is coming on the world, for the heavenly bodies will be shaken.” (Luke 21:26) It's hard to imagine this kind of fear, at least for me. If I think of the most horrible thing I know of, which would be war, even that doesn't cause this kind of fear in people. Perhaps it doesn't cause this kind of fear because we know that the enemy is just another human being like us.
Interestingly, it's with this 6th seal that the Day of the Lord begins, or what we often call, "the Great Tribulation." Notice that all of nature is affected by this seal...the sun, moon, & stars, as well as the heavens, the mountains, & the islands. Isaiah, Joel, Peter and Jesus, among others, spoke of this: “See, the day of the LORD is coming —a cruel day, with wrath and fierce anger— to make the land desolate and destroy the sinners within it. The stars of heaven and their constellations will not show their light. The rising sun will be darkened and the moon will not give its light.” (Isaiah 13:9–10) “I will show wonders in the heavens and on the earth, blood and fire and billows of smoke. The sun will be turned to darkness and the moon to blood before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD.” (Joel 2:30–31) “But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything in it will be laid bare.” (2 Peter 3:10) ““Immediately after the distress of those days “ ‘the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’ “At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory.” (Matthew 24:29–30) The earthquake that's spoken of won't be a regular earthquake that's happened before. This one will cause every single fault all over the world to fracture at the same time, causing an earthquake so large, and so strong that we don't have the words to describe it.
“and the stars in the sky fell to earth, as late figs drop from a fig tree when shaken by a strong wind.” (Revelation 6:13) I'm afraid I don't understand why you'd have trouble with this verse....stars fall all the time. So much so that most kids make wishes on falling stars to the point of it being practically a tradition. You said something about the sun, or suns falling but that isn't what God said. He said, "stars". That's where I got confused because I don't understand what caused you to bring up the word "sun".
A bit more on the 6th seal of Revelation 6
1[smear:#186427]2 When he opened the sixth seal, I looked, and behold, there was a great earthquake, and the sun became black as sackcloth, the full moon became like blood, 13 and the stars of the sky fell to the earth as the fig tree sheds its winter fruit when shaken by a gale. 14 The sky vanished like a scroll that is being rolled up, and every mountain and island was removed from its place. 15 Then the kings of the earth and the great ones and the generals and the rich and the powerful, and everyone, slave and free, hid themselves in the caves and among the rocks of the mountains, 16 calling to the mountains and rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who is seated on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb, 17 for the great day of their wrath has come, and who can stand?” Revelation 6:12-17[/smear:#e61958:1]
I have mentioned some of the Old Testament references and other New Testament books that refer to the end times and tribulation, for those who might still think that Revelation is too hard and the only place where God talks about this coming time..... I just ran across another one, I don't think I posted:
[smear:#720d62]30 “And I will show wonders in the heavens and on the earth, blood and fire and columns of smoke. 31 The sun shall be turned to darkness, and the moon to blood, before the great and awesome day of the Lord comes. 32 And it shall come to pass that everyone who calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved. For in Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there shall be those who escape, as the Lord has said, and among the survivors shall be those whom the Lord calls". Joel 2:31[/smear:#1ee619:1]
And concerning men's tremendous fear as a result of this seal, here is an OT passage:
[smear:#e64a19]19 "And people shall enter the caves of the rocks and the holes of the ground, from before the terror of the Lord, and from the splendor of his majesty, when he rises to terrify the earth.....
21 to enter the caverns of the rocks and the clefts of the cliffs, from before the terror of the Lord, and from the splendor of his majesty, when he rises to terrify the earth. 22 Stop regarding man in whose nostrils is breath, for of what account is he"? Isaiah 2:19,21,22[/smear:#117a77:0]
Also here is one from Hosea:
[smear:#3119e6]"......and they shall say to the mountains, “Cover us,” and to the hills, “Fall on us.” Hosea 10:8[/smear:#e61934:0]
and then this from Jesus in the NT book of Luke:
[smear:#129e34]30 "Then they will begin to say to the mountains, ‘Fall on us,’ and to the hills, ‘Cover us.’ Luke 23:30[/smear:#b2118f:0]
So this idea of overwhelming fear beginning to take place during the 6th seal is related to the understanding that this is a judgement from God.
I think Psalm 76 puts it in perspective, tho it is God's judgment, He is still merciful and wanting to save those that will humble themselves. [smear:#e6199d] "7 But you, you are to be feared! Who can stand before you when once your anger is roused? 8 From the heavens you uttered judgment; the earth feared and was still, 9 when God arose to establish judgment, to save all the humble of the earth". Psalm 76:7-9[/smear:#288b31:1]
So what should we do?
[smear:#b94109]"34 “But watch yourselves lest your hearts be weighed down with dissipation and drunkenness and cares of this life, and that day come upon you suddenly like a trap. 35 For it will come upon all who dwell on the face of the whole earth. 36 But stay awake at all times, praying that you may have strength to escape all these things that are going to take place, and to stand before the Son of Man.” Luke 21:34-36[/smear:#6f9d13:0]
I am just speculating....why do so many want to rocks to fall on them? It sounds to me like a way of suicide....the thinking that if I die, the fear will be all over. I think to those who do not believe in God or an afterlife, this will sound like relief...only one small problem, they are now in such fear, because they realize for sure there is a God.
Also wondering and speculating why rocks? Why not shoot themselves or take some kind of poison? I wonder.....will it be that part of producing a short term kind of 'peace' the anti-Christ, was finally able to enact what so many believe will stop most of the murders, by either confiscating all guns, or having everyone give them up...? And because of the war, and famine etc. there is limited supply of 'poison'?
Also in correspondence with the Revelation 6 passage Jesus said in Luke
11 There will be great earthquakes, and in various places famines and pestilences. And there will be terrors and great signs from heaven". Luke 21:11
So today many people might think things like, the sky changing etc., foolish, fanciful, silly etc. After all, the sky has always been as it is today, it does not change and has not etc.
[smear:#e6194a]"......all things are continuing as they were from the beginning of creation". 2 Peter 3:4[/smear:#2419e6:3]
And yet, the Bible indicates that before Noah's flood, the earth was different, and I am thinking that included the sky in some way Because there was no rain.....until the flood. Some have even speculated that this somehow added to much longer lives ( because human life did decrease in length of longevity after the flood). I would also think, that as sin increased, that also shortened humans life span.
It is not a big jump or hard to understand, that as our world speed thru the galaxy we run into many comets, and asteroids ( or they surprise us, and run into our planet).
"The number of asteroids nearly missing Earth has increased in the past few decades, a NASA study showed.
According to a report, a NASA video showcased all known asteroids that passed through our solar system from Jan. 1, 1999, to Jan. 31, 2018 and it showed just how many near-Earth collisions occurred during the last two decades." Lorraine Lorenzo
And here is another news article 9 I totally disregard the time frame, being a young earth believer but anyway.....
"Collisions have increased by up to three times over the past 290 million years, scientists find"
and this one also just to point out one more:
"Earth may be threatened by a newly discovered branch of a stream of meteoroids, increasing the risk that the planet will be struck by a meteoroid or asteroid.
A team of astronomers from the Czech Academy of Sciences announced the findings on Tuesday after studying the Taurid meteoroid stream". Elizabeth Howell
But more importantly, is what God is going to make happen!! The scientists of today realize that these things are going to happen, and frankly all they had to do was to read the Bible even as far back as a thousand, or 2 thousand or more years ago, and they would have already known these things will happen. But not all people will repent even with so much knowledge instead:
[smear:#123257]".....cursed the God of heaven for their pain and sores. They did not repent of their deeds." Revelation 16:11[/smear:#115f15:0]
And also: [smear:#227561] "11 Therefore God sends them a strong delusion, so that they may believe what is false, 12 in order that all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness"
2 Thessalonias 2:11,12[/smear:#e619cd:0]
Good!
You said: why do so many want to rocks to fall on them? and gave some ideas of why that might be so. I think the scriptures show that these people belong to the AntiChrist, heart and soul. Remember, this is toward the end of the Tribulation. They quite literally hate God, and use the excuse of His judgments as their proof of what a horrible God He is. Then this huge earthquake happens. This earthquake lasts a long time, not just a few seconds. They couldn't possibly go looking for poison or guns or anything else to kill themselves with during this earthquake, or even right after it. The entire world is going to be a complete mess. Most building will have been totally wrecked, and vehicles too. It will be all people can do just to survive after this earthquake. So they wish the rocks would fall on them and kill them because there's still plenty of rocks that can and will be falling even when the earthquake is over. We've all seen places that have been hit hard by an earthquake or some other disaster when there's hardly anything left standing. That's what the entire earth is going to look like at this time! As far as shooting themselves go, where are they going to get a gun? If they owned one, it's buried in the rubble somewhere. Yeah, given a whole lot of time and a lot of help, they may eventually find a gun, but they aren't thinking rationally any more anyway. Who would be in their position? So we have people who quite literally hate the God of love, and love Satan - a created being who hates them. Satan loves to kill people and would love to see them kill themselves since they'll be going to Hell anyway. So he puts suicide into their minds and the thing that's most available to do it with is rocks....
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Post by Cindy on Feb 11, 2020 10:37:21 GMT -5
I hope all is well. Looks like I got here before you today!
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,609
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Post by fearnot on Feb 13, 2020 11:39:43 GMT -5
Back after the net was down for about 5 days....but also didn't sleep but maybe an hour last night, so I may not write much today.
What I meant was in the past when I read 'stars'....I would think of looking at the sky at night and I guess, I used to think as a child I was looking at 'stars'...... but many of the 'stars' are actually 'suns'
So when I first read that verse 50 years or more ago.....I knew that ( or thought I knew) that stars were suns.....
So back then, I was confused, wondering how people would survive, with even one 'star'....in my mind back then.....as a 'sun' falling to earth??
But then, I wrote the definition of 'star':
any 'large'
or small celestial body.....
which I am thinking , a 'celestial body' could be a sun....
But nooooo this verse is about meteors, or perhaps comets...
I just wrote that in case any who might ever read it, might have had the same confusion I did for awhile.....thinking the 'stars' in the night sky are often really 'suns'..... and I just wanted to clarify that
but obviously it was not necessary......only I would make that mistake LOL
I guess it a good thing I never thought to become an author....because I would need serious help and a truck load of editors to clear up my often confusing rabbit trails.
I should start to painting, and gardening.....less confusing. haha
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,609
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Post by fearnot on Feb 13, 2020 11:44:33 GMT -5
I am not sure if you thought.....I thought the earth quake would be similar to ones we have now? I wonder because you mentioned in your post it would NOT be like anything ever before
But I did actually kind of say that but again maybe not as clearly I wrote:
"But the earthquake in Revelation 6:12 has different qualities altogether!! The idea is all of the earth's faults lines fracture simultaneously"
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,609
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Post by fearnot on Feb 13, 2020 11:50:27 GMT -5
Thanks for your explanation about the people wanting the rocks to fall on them. It makes perfect sense considering this earthquake!!
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,609
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Post by fearnot on Feb 13, 2020 13:10:42 GMT -5
Another aspect of the unbelievers fear concerning the earthquake ( the greatest global cataclysm ever) is that it will be a total equalizer....all segments of human societies, classes, etc. will be affected, none will be exempt.
[smear:#67b91b]"15 Then the kings of the earth and the great ones and the generals and the rich and the powerful, and everyone, slave..." Revelation 6:15[/smear:#6319e6:0]
Revelation 6 ends with a question: [smear:#9419e6] "17 for the great day of their wrath has come, and who can stand?”[/smear:#4ae619:0]
And Revelation 7 gives us answers:
We find out that there will be 144,000, sealed ( Jewish Missionaries) from every tribe of the sons of Israel.
Israel will finally become the witnessing nation it was to have been:
[smear:#3578c0]2 "And I will make of you a great nation, and I will bless you and make your name great, so that you will be a blessing. 3 I will bless those who bless you, and him who dishonors you I will curse, and in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed.” Genesis 12:2,3[/smear:#e619d5:0]
An interesting aspect of these Jewish evangelists is that God is going to 'seal' them on their foreheads:
[smear:#19e639]“Do not harm the earth or the sea or the trees, until we have sealed the servants of our God on their foreheads.” Revelation 7:3[/smear:#e61983:0]
This is not the first time this has happened, we read of it in Ezekiel:
[smear:#e61994]4 "And the Lord said to him, “Pass through the city, through Jerusalem, and put a mark on the foreheads of the men who sigh and groan over all the abominations that are committed in it." Ezekiel 9:4[/smear:#0fa851:0]
And sadly, satan the counterfeiter, will also put a mark on those humans who choose to worship him.
[smear:#54a217]"17 so that no one can buy or sell unless he has the mark, that is, the name of the beast or the number of its name. Revelation 13:17 [/smear:#700e24:0]
But this mark that God will have put on these Jewish 144,000 will be a mark of protection. And as a result a great multitude from every nation will be saved ( as a result of God's unparalleled mercy and grace)....( tho many will have been martyred, they will be saved)>
[smear:#e65219]"9 After this I looked, and behold, a great multitude that no one could number, from every nation, from all tribes and peoples and languages, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, with palm branches in their hands" Revelation 7:9[/smear:#291e92:0]
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Post by Cindy on Feb 14, 2020 10:20:46 GMT -5
Back after the net was down for about 5 days....but also didn't sleep but maybe an hour last night, so I may not write much today.
What I meant was in the past when I read 'stars'....I would think of looking at the sky at night and I guess, I used to think as a child I was looking at 'stars'...... but many of the 'stars' are actually 'suns'
So when I first read that verse 50 years or more ago.....I knew that ( or thought I knew) that stars were suns.....
So back then, I was confused, wondering how people would survive, with even one 'star'....in my mind back then.....as a 'sun' falling to earth??
But then, I wrote the definition of 'star':
any 'large'
or small celestial body.....
which I am thinking , a 'celestial body' could be a sun....
But nooooo this verse is about meteors, or perhaps comets...
I just wrote that in case any who might ever read it, might have had the same confusion I did for awhile.....thinking the 'stars' in the night sky are often really 'suns'..... and I just wanted to clarify that
but obviously it was not necessary......only I would make that mistake LOL
I guess it a good thing I never thought to become an author....because I would need serious help and a truck load of editors to clear up my often confusing rabbit trails.
I should start to painting, and gardening.....less confusing. haha I understand why you said that, thanks! I'm sure others probably thought the same thing and so would appreciate your thoughts on the matter.
I am not sure if you thought.....I thought the earth quake would be similar to ones we have now? I wonder because you mentioned in your post it would NOT be like anything ever before
But I did actually kind of say that but again maybe not as clearly I wrote:
"But the earthquake in Revelation 6:12 has different qualities altogether!! The idea is all of the earth's faults lines fracture simultaneously"
No, I didn't think that, I was just writing what came to my mind at the time. Thanks for your explanation about the people wanting the rocks to fall on them. It makes perfect sense considering this earthquake!! I'm glad it helped!
Another aspect of the unbelievers fear concerning the earthquake ( the greatest global cataclysm ever) is that it will be a total equalizer....all segments of human societies, classes, etc. will be affected, none will be exempt.
[smear:#67b91b]"15 Then the kings of the earth and the great ones and the generals and the rich and the powerful, and everyone, slave..." Revelation 6:15[/smear:#6319e6:0]
Revelation 6 ends with a question: [smear:#9419e6] "17 for the great day of their wrath has come, and who can stand?”[/smear:#4ae619:0]
And Revelation 7 gives us answers:
We find out that there will be 144,000, sealed ( Jewish Missionaries) from every tribe of the sons of Israel.
Israel will finally become the witnessing nation it was to have been:
[smear:#3578c0]2 "And I will make of you a great nation, and I will bless you and make your name great, so that you will be a blessing. 3 I will bless those who bless you, and him who dishonors you I will curse, and in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed.” Genesis 12:2,3[/smear:#e619d5:0]
An interesting aspect of these Jewish evangelists is that God is going to 'seal' them on their foreheads:
[smear:#19e639]“Do not harm the earth or the sea or the trees, until we have sealed the servants of our God on their foreheads.” Revelation 7:3[/smear:#e61983:0]
This is not the first time this has happened, we read of it in Ezekiel:
[smear:#e61994]4 "And the Lord said to him, “Pass through the city, through Jerusalem, and put a mark on the foreheads of the men who sigh and groan over all the abominations that are committed in it." Ezekiel 9:4[/smear:#0fa851:0]
And sadly, satan the counterfeiter, will also put a mark on those humans who choose to worship him.
[smear:#54a217]"17 so that no one can buy or sell unless he has the mark, that is, the name of the beast or the number of its name. Revelation 13:17 [/smear:#700e24:0]
But this mark that God will have put on these Jewish 144,000 will be a mark of protection. And as a result a great multitude from every nation will be saved ( as a result of God's unparalleled mercy and grace)....( tho many will have been martyred, they will be saved)>
[smear:#e65219]"9 After this I looked, and behold, a great multitude that no one could number, from every nation, from all tribes and peoples and languages, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, with palm branches in their hands" Revelation 7:9[/smear:#291e92:0]
Uh oh.... no, I'm sorry hon, but you have things confused here. The 144,000 that are sealed and will witness during the tribulation do NOT fulfill the obligation that Israel had to be a nation that led others to the Lord and taught others about Him. That won't be fulfilled until the Millennial Kingdom begins. God promise from Genesis that you posted also will not be fulfilled until the Millennial Kingdom.
I don't think you think this, but others might, so I also want to mention that although a huge number of people are during the tribulation, not all of them will be saved because of the 144,000 witnesses that God seals. Many will be saved right after the rapture, others will be saved during the 7 years due to the witness of others besides the 144,000. Just as a huge number were saved during the awful persecution during the Roman Empire days, so it will be true during the tribulation as well.
You did well on what you said about the mark of the beast and telling about the other times that a mark is mentioned though!
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,609
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Post by fearnot on Feb 14, 2020 13:38:03 GMT -5
Before moving on, the 144,000 Jews mark, shows that God is not done with Israel ( as some like to think for some odd reason).
Tho satan throughout history has often tried to blot out all the Jews ( and is still trying) it has not happened. The Jews have suffered terrible genocide, persecution, hatred and so on, but in many ways they are just stronger than ever. It is 8th on the list of the world's most powerful countries ( as of 2019) . it has extremely advanced technology, military etc.
And some folks like to say, well the 12 tribes were lost in ancient history, but they are NOT lost, because.... God knows exactly which Jewish person today belongs to which tribe ( tho they do not know themselves).
God is faithful, He made promises to the Jewish people, and He is faithful, tho they ( and all humans) were and are not.
I feel as Christians we need to keep our hearts tender to the Jewish people ( and all people really, but not to single out the Jews for hatred). God still loves the Jewish people as well as all people.
And chapter 7 ends with one of my favorite verses ( well I have a ton....but having always been a 'weepy' sort, this always uplifts my soul)
[smear:#32a328]17 "For the Lamb in the midst of the throne will be their shepherd, and he will guide them to springs of living water, and God will wipe away every tear from their eyes".” Revelation 7:17[/smear:#e119e6:0]
Well now we come to chapter 8 and things are going to get worse.....but first
[smear:#14631d]"1 When the Lamb opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven for about half an hour. 2 Then I saw the seven angels who stand before God, and seven trumpets were given to them." Revelation 8:1,2[/smear:#1f6f90:0]
When the 7th seal is opened, there is silence in Heaven for 1/2 an hour. I think there must be such awe because this last seal is opened and the worst is coming, that is so overwhelming as to silence everyone. The grim reality, is so incredible of what is coming, that even all the praises, singing etc. just stops for a time.
Then the 7 angels that stand before God ( perhaps a special group of angels) are given 7 trumpets ( from which the 7 bowls will emerge later)
Trumpets often signaled impending doom or judgment....and these will be judgments of greater intensity than what has already transpired.
Many people today are on the ecology bandwagon, 'save the earth, save the planet, global warming, climate change, etc etc.
So that they fit the verse about their worshiping God's creation instead of Him:
[smear:#66ad2d]"25 because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen". Roman's 1:25[/smear:#1c8e3e:0]
Ans just to be clear ( I hope) ....I am not saying, nor does God's word......say we should not be good stewards of God's creation... but ,not at the expense of putting the environment above God and people. This earth is going to end, we cannot 'save' it.... we do not need to be destructive, but to put all our time, money, thoughts, worship in planet earth, and not God, is to believe a lie, and to serve the creature, rather than He who made everything....including our earth.
But now, with the opening of the 7th seal, those who worship planet earth will really have something to really be concerned about, because now will come God's Divine destruction of earth's ecology.
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,609
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Post by fearnot on Feb 15, 2020 13:00:37 GMT -5
Oh, I forgot to mention that once again, I got the idea about the 144,000 from John MacArthur ( the study Bible actually)
I am referring to what you said:
"Uh oh.... no, I'm sorry hon, but you have things confused here. The 144,000 that are sealed and will witness during the tribulation do NOT fulfill the obligation that Israel had to be a nation that led others to the Lord and taught others about Him. That won't be fulfilled until the Millennial Kingdom begins. God promise from Genesis that you posted also will not be fulfilled until the Millennial Kingdom. "
In his study Bible the note on Revelation 7:4 he wrote concerning the 144,000:
"A missionary corps of redeemed Jews who are instrumental in the salvation of many Jews and Gentiles during the tribulation.. They will be the first fruits of a new, redeemed Israel. Finally, Israel will be the witness nation she refused to be in the OT."
But that just goes to show even one of the best pastors can make a mistake...or else, I am missing something. I do remember that once before, I thought the same thing ( but can no longer remember what the issue was) but you said, that actually you and he were saying the same thing....
I just misinterpreted what both of you had said.....I am thinking maybe it was about whether our pets will be in Heaven? I am not sure. I thought you had said yes, and he said no....does that sound familiar?
Anyway, that is where I got the idea that Israel would be the witness nation ( she should have been from the OT but did not become) during the tribulation via the 144,000 Jews.
In any case, it seems like they do bring some to Christ for salvation ( by the gospel) during that time?
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,609
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Post by fearnot on Feb 15, 2020 13:13:13 GMT -5
Back to Revelation 8
This verse below, reminded me how important prayers of believers are that they get mentioned in such a time as the great tribulation:
[smear:#a71129] 3 "And another angel came and stood at the altar with a golden censer, and he was given much incense to offer with the prayers of all the saints on the golden altar before the throne, 4 and the smoke of the incense, with the prayers of the saints, rose before God from the hand of the angel". Revelation 8:3,4[/smear:#124016:0]
We may think from time to time our prayers don't accomplish much, but this seems to show how powerful they are, I think. It seems like the prayers of the saints at that time, and the following judgment are connected.
Because in verse 5 we have yet another massive earthquake ( much bigger than the ones we have today...tho those are increasing in intensity and size).
5 Then the angel took the censer and filled it with fire from the altar and threw it on the earth, and there were peals of thunder, rumblings, flashes of lightning, and an earthquake.
Revelation 8:5
You might think that at this point no one would continue to reject the gospel and mock it, but people do so now (before the tribulation) with relish and in the love of their sins , and will continue even during the tribulation.
Well we come to the results (perhaps) of this earthquake in verse 7.
[smear:#d80214]7 "The first angel blew his trumpet, and there followed hail and fire, mixed with blood, and these were thrown upon the earth. And a third of the earth was burned up, and a third of the trees were burned up, and all green grass was burned up". Revelation 8: 7 [/smear:#19e6d9:0]
This reminds us of the plagues of Egypt, especially the 7th one:
[smear:#4aaca0]22 Then the Lord said to Moses, “Stretch out your hand toward heaven, so that there may be hail in all the land of Egypt, on man and beast and every plant of the field, in the land of Egypt.” 23 Then Moses stretched out his staff toward heaven, and the Lord sent thunder and hail, and fire ran down to the earth. And the Lord rained hail upon the land of Egypt. 24 There was hail and fire flashing continually in the midst of the hail, very heavy hail, such as had never been in all the land of Egypt since it became a nation. 25 The hail struck down everything that was in the field in all the land of Egypt, both man and beast. And the hail struck down every plant of the field and broke every tree of the field". Exodus 9:22-25[/smear:#e61937:0]
The fire aspect made me think of the fires recently in Australia...a small preview perhaps?
People of today have become so concerned about 'saving planet earth' that they have turned it into an idol that they worship, rather than the Creator.
However, with this first trumpet judgment God is destroying their idol ( his creation by the way)....
But they in our time (before the tribulation), celebrate Earth Day and swear using God's name.
Again the plagues of Egypt on all the earthy idols the Egyptians worshiped comes to mind.
[smear:#576d12]"32 He gave them hail for rain, and fiery lightning bolts through their land. 33 He struck down their vines and fig trees, and shattered the trees of their country. " Psalm 105:32,32[/smear:#aa1496:0]
Another verse with hail as a judgment:
[smear:#244d04]2"Behold, the Lord has one who is mighty and strong; like a storm of hail, a destroying tempest, like a storm of mighty, overflowing waters, he casts down to the earth with his hand". Isaiah 28:2[/smear:#e6a719:0]
And fire from the sky we saw in Sodom and Gomorrah
As a side note: John MacArthur brought up an interesting comparison of these trumpets and Joshua and Israel and judgment at Jericho.
[smear:#4f318f]"4 Seven priests shall bear seven trumpets of rams' horns before the ark. On the seventh day you shall march around the city seven times, and the priests shall blow the trumpets". Joshua 6:4[/smear:#e619a1:0]
People are concerned about the ozone layer ( that God created) and now it is really going to be damaged.
In kind of a strange way, it is ironic that unbelievers are concerned about global warming and climate change...well yes, it IS going to happen, but it is going to be as a result of Divine judgment, not hair spray, cows passing gas, or car fumes etc.
If you are convinced humans are destroying planet earth, wait until you see what the God of all Creation is going to do...
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,609
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Post by fearnot on Feb 16, 2020 17:57:35 GMT -5
Now to the 2nd trumpet
[smear:#19e6a4]8 "The second angel blew his trumpet, and something like a great mountain, burning with fire, was thrown into the sea, and a third of the sea became blood. 9 A third of the living creatures in the sea died, and a third of the ships were destroyed". Revelation 8:8,9[/smear:#e61970:0]
Before one says really a mountain falls from the sky? Note, it does NOT say that it says: Something like
It's kind of strange, but yet another “potential” asteroid collision, was avoided just last week. Apparently it had created some doomsday panic...this was said with what almost seemed like scorn by NASA. Yes, I understand that NASA is in a tricky position, because blood moons, and other such things going viral and having the potential to create panic. And its not that NASA denies things have not hit earth in the past, but also they do not deny they have even missed near earth objects in the past.
However, they also make claims I do not trust because the do not factor in God!! They assure us: "there’s a 0.01 percent chance of a potentially hazardous object impacting Earth in the next 100 years".
But here's the thing...... the Bible makes it clear in this verse that something like an giant asteroid or a large meteor burning upon entry to the earth, or some kind of celestial body is going to impact earth during in the tribulation.
And it will hit the sea and the waters will either turn to blood, or like blood..... But again it reminds of a bit of the plagues of Egypt in that....
[smear:#19e65a]" 17 Thus says the Lord, “By this you shall know that I am the Lord: behold, with the staff that is in my hand I will strike the water that is in the Nile, and it shall turn into blood. 18 The fish in the Nile shall die, and the Nile will stink, ..." Exodus 7:17[/smear:#e119e6:0]
and this also:
[smear:#8319e6]"43 when he performed his signs in Egypt and his marvels in the fields of Zoan. 44 He turned their rivers to blood, so that they could not drink of their streams. Psalms 78:43,44[/smear:#932a93:0]
This is yet another food chain source being greatly depleted and also 1/3 of the ships will be lost as well, and that too will cause a great loss of food, commerce, and transportation of all sorts.
[smear:#19e64a]“I will sweep away man and beast; I will sweep away the birds of the heavens and the fish of the sea", Zephaniah 1:3[/smear:#591347:0]
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Post by Cindy on Feb 17, 2020 11:56:40 GMT -5
Before moving on, the 144,000 Jews mark, shows that God is not done with Israel ( as some like to think for some odd reason).
Tho satan throughout history has often tried to blot out all the Jews ( and is still trying) it has not happened. The Jews have suffered terrible genocide, persecution, hatred and so on, but in many ways they are just stronger than ever. It is 8th on the list of the world's most powerful countries ( as of 2019) . it has extremely advanced technology, military etc.
And some folks like to say, well the 12 tribes were lost in ancient history, but they are NOT lost, because.... God knows exactly which Jewish person today belongs to which tribe ( tho they do not know themselves).
God is faithful, He made promises to the Jewish people, and He is faithful, tho they ( and all humans) were and are not.
I feel as Christians we need to keep our hearts tender to the Jewish people ( and all people really, but not to single out the Jews for hatred). God still loves the Jewish people as well as all people.
And chapter 7 ends with one of my favorite verses ( well I have a ton....but having always been a 'weepy' sort, this always uplifts my soul)
[smear:#32a328]17 "For the Lamb in the midst of the throne will be their shepherd, and he will guide them to springs of living water, and God will wipe away every tear from their eyes".” Revelation 7:17[/smear:#e119e6:0]
Well now we come to chapter 8 and things are going to get worse.....but first
[smear:#14631d]"1 When the Lamb opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven for about half an hour. 2 Then I saw the seven angels who stand before God, and seven trumpets were given to them." Revelation 8:1,2[/smear:#1f6f90:0]
When the 7th seal is opened, there is silence in Heaven for 1/2 an hour. I think there must be such awe because this last seal is opened and the worst is coming, that is so overwhelming as to silence everyone. The grim reality, is so incredible of what is coming, that even all the praises, singing etc. just stops for a time.
Then the 7 angels that stand before God ( perhaps a special group of angels) are given 7 trumpets ( from which the 7 bowls will emerge later)
Trumpets often signaled impending doom or judgment....and these will be judgments of greater intensity than what has already transpired.
Many people today are on the ecology bandwagon, 'save the earth, save the planet, global warming, climate change, etc etc.
So that they fit the verse about their worshiping God's creation instead of Him:
[smear:#66ad2d]"25 because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen". Roman's 1:25[/smear:#1c8e3e:0]
Ans just to be clear ( I hope) ....I am not saying, nor does God's word......say we should not be good stewards of God's creation... but ,not at the expense of putting the environment above God and people. This earth is going to end, we cannot 'save' it.... we do not need to be destructive, but to put all our time, money, thoughts, worship in planet earth, and not God, is to believe a lie, and to serve the creature, rather than He who made everything....including our earth.
But now, with the opening of the 7th seal, those who worship planet earth will really have something to really be concerned about, because now will come God's Divine destruction of earth's ecology.
Very good! Oh, I forgot to mention that once again, I got the idea about the 144,000 from John MacArthur ( the study Bible actually)
I am referring to what you said:
"Uh oh.... no, I'm sorry hon, but you have things confused here. The 144,000 that are sealed and will witness during the tribulation do NOT fulfill the obligation that Israel had to be a nation that led others to the Lord and taught others about Him. That won't be fulfilled until the Millennial Kingdom begins. God promise from Genesis that you posted also will not be fulfilled until the Millennial Kingdom. "
In his study Bible the note on Revelation 7:4 he wrote concerning the 144,000:
"A missionary corps of redeemed Jews who are instrumental in the salvation of many Jews and Gentiles during the tribulation.. They will be the first fruits of a new, redeemed Israel. Finally, Israel will be the witness nation she refused to be in the OT."
But that just goes to show even one of the best pastors can make a mistake...or else, I am missing something. I do remember that once before, I thought the same thing ( but can no longer remember what the issue was) but you said, that actually you and he were saying the same thing....
I just misinterpreted what both of you had said.....I am thinking maybe it was about whether our pets will be in Heaven? I am not sure. I thought you had said yes, and he said no....does that sound familiar?
Anyway, that is where I got the idea that Israel would be the witness nation ( she should have been from the OT but did not become) during the tribulation via the 144,000 Jews.
In any case, it seems like they do bring some to Christ for salvation ( by the gospel) during that time?
I'm sorry, but this time you've somehow misunderstood what he's saying about the 144,000. What I said about them is exactly what he says about them as well. Yes, they are the "first fruits", because they are the first Jews to be saved during the Tribulation. Not because they're going to witness to others. I think that must be where you got mixed up, is that right? Read Isaiah 60 and 61. Here's one verse from those chapters: “And you will be called priests of the LORD, you will be named ministers of our God. You will feed on the wealth of nations, and in their riches you will boast.” (Isaiah 61:6) And here's what MacArthur says about it: priests of the LORD. In fulfillment of Ex 19:6, (“you will be for me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.’ These are the words you are to speak to the Israelites.””) Israel will be a kingdom of priests when Christ establishes His kingdom. In the meantime, Peter applied the same terminology to the church (1Pe 2:9).
This is what I posted about this earlier: Just to be sure you understand what is being said, let me also post what I said about this earlier:
The 144,000 that are sealed and will witness during the tribulation do NOT fulfill the obligation that Israel had to be a nation that led others to the Lord and taught others about Him. That won't be fulfilled until the Millennial Kingdom begins. God promise from Genesis that you posted also will not be fulfilled until the Millennial Kingdom.
I don't think you think this, but others might, so I also want to mention that although a huge number of people are during the tribulation, not all of them will be saved because of the 144,000 witnesses that God seals. Many will be saved right after the rapture, others will be saved during the 7 years due to the witness of others besides the 144,000. Just as a huge number were saved during the awful persecution during the Roman Empire days, so it will be true during the tribulation as well.
Back to Revelation 8
This verse below, reminded me how important prayers of believers are that they get mentioned in such a time as the great tribulation:
[smear:#a71129] 3 "And another angel came and stood at the altar with a golden censer, and he was given much incense to offer with the prayers of all the saints on the golden altar before the throne, 4 and the smoke of the incense, with the prayers of the saints, rose before God from the hand of the angel". Revelation 8:3,4[/smear:#124016:0]
We may think from time to time our prayers don't accomplish much, but this seems to show how powerful they are, I think. It seems like the prayers of the saints at that time, and the following judgment are connected.
Because in verse 5 we have yet another massive earthquake ( much bigger than the ones we have today...tho those are increasing in intensity and size).
5 Then the angel took the censer and filled it with fire from the altar and threw it on the earth, and there were peals of thunder, rumblings, flashes of lightning, and an earthquake.
Revelation 8:5
You might think that at this point no one would continue to reject the gospel and mock it, but people do so now (before the tribulation) with relish and in the love of their sins , and will continue even during the tribulation.
Well we come to the results (perhaps) of this earthquake in verse 7.
[smear:#d80214]7 "The first angel blew his trumpet, and there followed hail and fire, mixed with blood, and these were thrown upon the earth. And a third of the earth was burned up, and a third of the trees were burned up, and all green grass was burned up". Revelation 8: 7 [/smear:#19e6d9:0]
This reminds us of the plagues of Egypt, especially the 7th one:
[smear:#4aaca0]22 Then the Lord said to Moses, “Stretch out your hand toward heaven, so that there may be hail in all the land of Egypt, on man and beast and every plant of the field, in the land of Egypt.” 23 Then Moses stretched out his staff toward heaven, and the Lord sent thunder and hail, and fire ran down to the earth. And the Lord rained hail upon the land of Egypt. 24 There was hail and fire flashing continually in the midst of the hail, very heavy hail, such as had never been in all the land of Egypt since it became a nation. 25 The hail struck down everything that was in the field in all the land of Egypt, both man and beast. And the hail struck down every plant of the field and broke every tree of the field". Exodus 9:22-25[/smear:#e61937:0]
The fire aspect made me think of the fires recently in Australia...a small preview perhaps?
People of today have become so concerned about 'saving planet earth' that they have turned it into an idol that they worship, rather than the Creator.
However, with this first trumpet judgment God is destroying their idol ( his creation by the way)....
But they in our time (before the tribulation), celebrate Earth Day and swear using God's name.
Again the plagues of Egypt on all the earthy idols the Egyptians worshiped comes to mind.
[smear:#576d12]"32 He gave them hail for rain, and fiery lightning bolts through their land. 33 He struck down their vines and fig trees, and shattered the trees of their country. " Psalm 105:32,32[/smear:#aa1496:0]
Another verse with hail as a judgment:
[smear:#244d04]2"Behold, the Lord has one who is mighty and strong; like a storm of hail, a destroying tempest, like a storm of mighty, overflowing waters, he casts down to the earth with his hand". Isaiah 28:2[/smear:#e6a719:0]
And fire from the sky we saw in Sodom and Gomorrah
As a side note: John MacArthur brought up an interesting comparison of these trumpets and Joshua and Israel and judgment at Jericho.
[smear:#4f318f]"4 Seven priests shall bear seven trumpets of rams' horns before the ark. On the seventh day you shall march around the city seven times, and the priests shall blow the trumpets". Joshua 6:4[/smear:#e619a1:0]
People are concerned about the ozone layer ( that God created) and now it is really going to be damaged.
In kind of a strange way, it is ironic that unbelievers are concerned about global warming and climate change...well yes, it IS going to happen, but it is going to be as a result of Divine judgment, not hair spray, cows passing gas, or car fumes etc.
If you are convinced humans are destroying planet earth, wait until you see what the God of all Creation is going to do...
Very good! I love the way you ended it too! LOL
Now to the 2nd trumpet
[smear:#19e6a4]8 "The second angel blew his trumpet, and something like a great mountain, burning with fire, was thrown into the sea, and a third of the sea became blood. 9 A third of the living creatures in the sea died, and a third of the ships were destroyed". Revelation 8:8,9[/smear:#e61970:0]
Before one says really a mountain falls from the sky? Note, it does NOT say that it says: Something like
It's kind of strange, but yet another “potential” asteroid collision, was avoided just last week. Apparently it had created some doomsday panic...this was said with what almost seemed like scorn by NASA. Yes, I understand that NASA is in a tricky position, because blood moons, and other such things going viral and having the potential to create panic. And its not that NASA denies things have not hit earth in the past, but also they do not deny they have even missed near earth objects in the past.
However, they also make claims I do not trust because the do not factor in God!! They assure us: "there’s a 0.01 percent chance of a potentially hazardous object impacting Earth in the next 100 years".
But here's the thing...... the Bible makes it clear in this verse that something like an giant asteroid or a large meteor burning upon entry to the earth, or some kind of celestial body is going to impact earth during in the tribulation.
And it will hit the sea and the waters will either turn to blood, or like blood..... But again it reminds of a bit of the plagues of Egypt in that....
[smear:#19e65a]" 17 Thus says the Lord, “By this you shall know that I am the Lord: behold, with the staff that is in my hand I will strike the water that is in the Nile, and it shall turn into blood. 18 The fish in the Nile shall die, and the Nile will stink, ..." Exodus 7:17[/smear:#e119e6:0]
and this also:
[smear:#8319e6]"43 when he performed his signs in Egypt and his marvels in the fields of Zoan. 44 He turned their rivers to blood, so that they could not drink of their streams. Psalms 78:43,44[/smear:#932a93:0]
This is yet another food chain source being greatly depleted and also 1/3 of the ships will be lost as well, and that too will cause a great loss of food, commerce, and transportation of all sorts.
[smear:#19e64a]“I will sweep away man and beast; I will sweep away the birds of the heavens and the fish of the sea", Zephaniah 1:3[/smear:#591347:0]
Good! You're doing great! Don't get down just because you misunderstood something ok?
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,609
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Post by fearnot on Feb 17, 2020 12:27:16 GMT -5
Arrgghh! I just remembered something, that I forgot to mention waaaay back at the rapture.... Children!!!
Young children ( to whatever the age of accountability is for each individual child is..) and babies, Will be taken in the rapture, so for at least for 9 mts of longer, the world will be basically without children.
I kind of wonder tho, how will people react to a world without any children..... when:
"As of December 31, 2018, there have been some 41.9 million abortions performed in the course of the year, Worldometers revealed. By contrast, 8.2 million people died from cancer in 2018, 5 million from smoking, and 1.7 million died of HIV/AIDS.
Or "According to WHO, every year in the world there are an estimated 40-50 million abortions".
So I wonder if many people will be happy or horrified?
Well, back to the trumpet judgments:
[smear:#a70e6a]10 "The third angel blew his trumpet, and a great star fell from heaven, blazing like a torch, and it fell on a third of the rivers and on the springs of water. 11 The name of the star is Wormwood. A third of the waters became wormwood, and many people died from the water, because it had been made bitter". Revelation 8:10,11[/smear:#1a8b3a:1]
Again I think this 'star' is most likely a meteor or asteroid. Also, again...why is all of this happening? God has been very patient with mankind, but His patience has run out and tho hard to believe, I think, this is also a time of blessing in that, many who had rejected God, are finally becoming awake, and are being saved. Tho many continue to reject the Truth and God, and refuse to repent of their sins.
And this celestial object will surely also fit what Jesus said:
[smear:#c97d0b]"11.........."And there will be terrors and great signs from heaven". Luke 21:11[/smear:#68e619:0]
This is the worst because water is essential to life.... a person can live without food for at least a month ( maybe longer if one is healthy), and even without the ocean but many will die in 3 or 4 days without water to drink....and so 1/3 of the waters will be poisoned, so a LOT of people will die as a result. This shows the world how dependent humans are on the perfect system God set up for us to be able to live.
It is interesting that God compares idolatry as a 'root bearing poisonous and bitter" [smear:#722d13] 17 And you have seen their detestable things, their idols of wood and stone, of silver and gold, which were among them. 18 Beware lest there be among you a man or woman or clan or tribe whose heart is turning away today from the Lord our God to go and serve the gods of those nations. Beware lest there be among you a root bearing poisonous and bitter fruit," Deuteronomy 29:17,18[/smear:#0f5d13:0]
We see preview of this in the OT
[smear:#74e619]"14...........for the Lord our God has doomed us to perish and has given us poisoned water to drink, because we have sinned against the Lord." Jeremiah 8:14[/smear:#74e619:0]
[smear:#0a4e14]15 "Therefore thus says the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel: Behold, I will feed this people with bitter food, and give them poisonous water to drink." Jeremiah 9:15[/smear:#dbe619:0]
And what could these tribulation people, do even 9 at such a late date), so as to be saved for all eternity, and drink from the river of life that Jesus supplies..... they can still, except what Jesus has done for them, repent etc. but many will not.
We saw a kind of preview of this in Exodus, when Moses sweeten bitter/poisonous water with a 'tree' ( a symbol of the Cross of Jesus...a tree of life for us).
[smear:#19e65a]"23 When they came to Marah, they could not drink the water of Marah because it was bitter; therefore it was named Marah. 24 And the people grumbled against Moses, saying, “What shall we drink?” 25 And he cried to the Lord, and the Lord showed him a log, and he threw it into the water, and the water became sweet." Exodus 15:23-25[/smear:#98232f:0]
People have a choice:
drink poison water or living water:
[smear:#7b19e6]13 "Jesus said to her, “Everyone who drinks of this water will be thirsty again, 14 but whoever drinks of the water that I will give him will never be thirsty again. The water that I will give him will become in him a spring of water welling up to eternal life.” John 4:13,14[/smear:#2fe619:0]
Jesus said:
[smear:#8223b8]"I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. To the thirsty I will give from the spring of the water of life without payment. " Revelation 21:6[/smear:#e619b2:0]
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Post by Cindy on Feb 18, 2020 10:49:42 GMT -5
Arrgghh! I just remembered something, that I forgot to mention waaaay back at the rapture.... Children!!!
Young children ( to whatever the age of accountability is for each individual child is..) and babies, Will be taken in the rapture, so for at least for 9 mts of longer, the world will be basically without children.
I kind of wonder tho, how will people react to a world without any children..... when:
"As of December 31, 2018, there have been some 41.9 million abortions performed in the course of the year, Worldometers revealed. By contrast, 8.2 million people died from cancer in 2018, 5 million from smoking, and 1.7 million died of HIV/AIDS.
Or "According to WHO, every year in the world there are an estimated 40-50 million abortions".
So I wonder if many people will be happy or horrified?
Well, back to the trumpet judgments:
[smear:#a70e6a]10 "The third angel blew his trumpet, and a great star fell from heaven, blazing like a torch, and it fell on a third of the rivers and on the springs of water. 11 The name of the star is Wormwood. A third of the waters became wormwood, and many people died from the water, because it had been made bitter". Revelation 8:10,11[/smear:#1a8b3a:1]
Again I think this 'star' is most likely a meteor or asteroid. Also, again...why is all of this happening? God has been very patient with mankind, but His patience has run out and tho hard to believe, I think, this is also a time of blessing in that, many who had rejected God, are finally becoming awake, and are being saved. Tho many continue to reject the Truth and God, and refuse to repent of their sins.
And this celestial object will surely also fit what Jesus said:
[smear:#c97d0b]"11.........."And there will be terrors and great signs from heaven". Luke 21:11[/smear:#68e619:0]
This is the worst because water is essential to life.... a person can live without food for at least a month ( maybe longer if one is healthy), and even without the ocean but many will die in 3 or 4 days without water to drink....and so 1/3 of the waters will be poisoned, so a LOT of people will die as a result. This shows the world how dependent humans are on the perfect system God set up for us to be able to live.
It is interesting that God compares idolatry as a 'root bearing poisonous and bitter" [smear:#722d13] 17 And you have seen their detestable things, their idols of wood and stone, of silver and gold, which were among them. 18 Beware lest there be among you a man or woman or clan or tribe whose heart is turning away today from the Lord our God to go and serve the gods of those nations. Beware lest there be among you a root bearing poisonous and bitter fruit," Deuteronomy 29:17,18[/smear:#0f5d13:0]
We see preview of this in the OT
[smear:#74e619]"14...........for the Lord our God has doomed us to perish and has given us poisoned water to drink, because we have sinned against the Lord." Jeremiah 8:14[/smear:#74e619:0]
[smear:#0a4e14]15 "Therefore thus says the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel: Behold, I will feed this people with bitter food, and give them poisonous water to drink." Jeremiah 9:15[/smear:#dbe619:0]
And what could these tribulation people, do even 9 at such a late date), so as to be saved for all eternity, and drink from the river of life that Jesus supplies..... they can still, except what Jesus has done for them, repent etc. but many will not.
We saw a kind of preview of this in Exodus, when Moses sweeten bitter/poisonous water with a 'tree' ( a symbol of the Cross of Jesus...a tree of life for us).
[smear:#19e65a]"23 When they came to Marah, they could not drink the water of Marah because it was bitter; therefore it was named Marah. 24 And the people grumbled against Moses, saying, “What shall we drink?” 25 And he cried to the Lord, and the Lord showed him a log, and he threw it into the water, and the water became sweet." Exodus 15:23-25[/smear:#98232f:0]
People have a choice:
drink poison water or living water:
[smear:#7b19e6]13 "Jesus said to her, “Everyone who drinks of this water will be thirsty again, 14 but whoever drinks of the water that I will give him will never be thirsty again. The water that I will give him will become in him a spring of water welling up to eternal life.” John 4:13,14[/smear:#2fe619:0]
Jesus said:
[smear:#8223b8]"I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. To the thirsty I will give from the spring of the water of life without payment. " Revelation 21:6[/smear:#e619b2:0]
Very good! Please talk to me about the 144,000. I want to make sure you understand what MacArthur is saying, ok?
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,609
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Post by fearnot on Feb 18, 2020 11:49:29 GMT -5
I think that what you and MacArthur are saying is that the 144,000 Jews will bring many to Christ during the tribulation...
but as MacArthur wrote they will be the 'First fruits'
and what you are saying is their becoming the 'witness' to the whole world that they were supposed to have been back in the OT, will happen during the 1000 year reign of Jesus.
MacArthur wrote: "A missionary corps of redeemed Jews who are instrumental in the salvation of many Jews and Gentiles during the tribulation.. They will be the 'first fruits' of a new, redeemed Israel".
The last sentence Pastor MacArthur wrote in his Bible study notes on Revelation 7:
"Finally, Israel will be the witness nation she refused to be in the OT".
I mistook the word: "Finally"....to mean.... right at that time, during the tribulation......
Not as finally....as in 'later'....later on....finally
later meaning, during the 1,000 year reign of Jesus.
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,609
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Post by fearnot on Feb 18, 2020 12:33:59 GMT -5
I just have to mention that just a quick scan of the news today and the past days, I found it quite amazing how many Biblical headlines there were: Things like:
In the Noah’s Ark of citrus, caretakers try to stave off a fruit apocalypse
A Plague Of Locusts, Earthquakes In Diverse Places, And Weather That's Gone Completely Nuts
Locust Plague of “Biblical Proportions” to Hit Egypt
Locust ‘Plague’ of Biblical Proportions Strikes Across Globe
Locust Plague Reaching China's Border
It's interesting that a world that mostly hates Christianity, the Bible, Jesus etc. is now using the Bible's vocabulary to headline news more and more.
It also made me think of Australia...first devastating fires, and now flooding China corona virus, and now locust reaching the border. etc etc.
Well, on to the next trumpet judgment:
[smear:#293a4d]12 "The fourth angel blew his trumpet, and a third of the sun was struck, and a third of the moon, and a third of the stars, so that a third of their light might be darkened, and a third of the day might be kept from shining, and likewise a third of the night." Revelation 8:12[/smear:#e64d19:0]
God now temporarily reduces the sun light ( and that will effect the light of the moon as well) and a third of the stars The reason I say temporary is because later on in Revelation the reverse will happen:
[smear:#e6a419]"8 The fourth angel poured out his bowl on the sun, and it was allowed to scorch people with fire. 9 They were scorched by the fierce heat, and they cursed..." Revelation 16:8,9[/smear:#e61934:0]
But for sure it seems that however God makes this happen there will be a major cooling down of earth and that will also effect the growing of crops, etc, So much so that it reminds us of these verses in Luke:
[smear:#32e619]"25 “And there will be signs in sun and moon and stars, and on the earth distress of nations in perplexity because of the roaring of the sea and the waves, 26 people fainting with fear and with foreboding of what is coming on the world. For the powers of the heavens will be shaken. " Luke 21:25[/smear:#6e2303:0]
It also brings to mind these verses in the OT
[smear:#6a0e81] 21 "Then the Lord said to Moses, “Stretch out your hand toward heaven, that there may be darkness over the land of Egypt, a darkness to be felt.” 22 So Moses stretched out his hand toward heaven, and there was pitch darkness in all the land of Egypt three days". Exodus 10:21,22[/smear:#03032a:0]
[smear:#0b3d03]30 "They will growl over it on that day, like the growling of the sea. And if one looks to the land, behold, darkness and distress; and the light is darkened by its clouds" Isaiah 5:30[/smear:#470b67:0]
[smear:#940d13]7 "When I blot you out, I will cover the heavens and make their stars dark; I will cover the sun with a cloud, and the moon shall not give its light. 8 All the bright lights of heaven will I make dark over you, and put darkness on your land, declares the Lord God. 9 “I will trouble the hearts of many peoples, when I bring your destruction among the nations, into the countries that you have not known. Ezekiel 32:7-9[/smear:#06390e:0]
[smear:#065a53]14 "The great day of the Lord is near, near and hastening fast; the sound of the day of the Lord is bitter; the mighty man cries aloud there. 15 A day of wrath is that day, a day of distress and anguish, a day of ruin and devastation, a day of darkness and gloom, a day of clouds and thick darkness,..." Zephaniah 1:14,15[/smear:#7a097d:0]
I am thinking obesity is going to be a thing of the past at this point, as food will be super scarce.
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Post by Cindy on Feb 19, 2020 11:47:21 GMT -5
I think that what you and MacArthur are saying is that the 144,000 Jews will bring many to Christ during the tribulation...
but as MacArthur wrote they will be the 'First fruits'
and what you are saying is their becoming the 'witness' to the whole world that they were supposed to have been back in the OT, will happen during the 1000 year reign of Jesus.
MacArthur wrote: "A missionary corps of redeemed Jews who are instrumental in the salvation of many Jews and Gentiles during the tribulation.. They will be the 'first fruits' of a new, redeemed Israel".
The last sentence Pastor MacArthur wrote in his Bible study notes on Revelation 7:
"Finally, Israel will be the witness nation she refused to be in the OT".
I mistook the word: "Finally"....to mean.... right at that time, during the tribulation......
Not as finally....as in 'later'....later on....finally
later meaning, during the 1,000 year reign of Jesus.
Exactly. I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of people misunderstood what MacArthur meant by that on Rev 7. But that's an excellent example of why we have to be so careful of what we say and how we say it. I know I also make plenty of mistakes in how I say things. It would be impossible for any of us to be perfect, but we do have to try.
I just have to mention that just a quick scan of the news today and the past days, I found it quite amazing how many Biblical headlines there were: Things like:
In the Noah’s Ark of citrus, caretakers try to stave off a fruit apocalypse
A Plague Of Locusts, Earthquakes In Diverse Places, And Weather That's Gone Completely Nuts
Locust Plague of “Biblical Proportions” to Hit Egypt
Locust ‘Plague’ of Biblical Proportions Strikes Across Globe
Locust Plague Reaching China's Border
It's interesting that a world that mostly hates Christianity, the Bible, Jesus etc. is now using the Bible's vocabulary to headline news more and more.
It also made me think of Australia...first devastating fires, and now flooding China corona virus, and now locust reaching the border. etc etc.
Well, on to the next trumpet judgment:
[smear:#293a4d]12 "The fourth angel blew his trumpet, and a third of the sun was struck, and a third of the moon, and a third of the stars, so that a third of their light might be darkened, and a third of the day might be kept from shining, and likewise a third of the night." Revelation 8:12[/smear:#e64d19:0]
God now temporarily reduces the sun light ( and that will effect the light of the moon as well) and a third of the stars The reason I say temporary is because later on in Revelation the reverse will happen:
[smear:#e6a419]"8 The fourth angel poured out his bowl on the sun, and it was allowed to scorch people with fire. 9 They were scorched by the fierce heat, and they cursed..." Revelation 16:8,9[/smear:#e61934:0]
But for sure it seems that however God makes this happen there will be a major cooling down of earth and that will also effect the growing of crops, etc, So much so that it reminds us of these verses in Luke:
[smear:#32e619]"25 “And there will be signs in sun and moon and stars, and on the earth distress of nations in perplexity because of the roaring of the sea and the waves, 26 people fainting with fear and with foreboding of what is coming on the world. For the powers of the heavens will be shaken. " Luke 21:25[/smear:#6e2303:0]
It also brings to mind these verses in the OT
[smear:#6a0e81] 21 "Then the Lord said to Moses, “Stretch out your hand toward heaven, that there may be darkness over the land of Egypt, a darkness to be felt.” 22 So Moses stretched out his hand toward heaven, and there was pitch darkness in all the land of Egypt three days". Exodus 10:21,22[/smear:#03032a:0]
[smear:#0b3d03]30 "They will growl over it on that day, like the growling of the sea. And if one looks to the land, behold, darkness and distress; and the light is darkened by its clouds" Isaiah 5:30[/smear:#470b67:0]
[smear:#940d13]7 "When I blot you out, I will cover the heavens and make their stars dark; I will cover the sun with a cloud, and the moon shall not give its light. 8 All the bright lights of heaven will I make dark over you, and put darkness on your land, declares the Lord God. 9 “I will trouble the hearts of many peoples, when I bring your destruction among the nations, into the countries that you have not known. Ezekiel 32:7-9[/smear:#06390e:0]
[smear:#065a53]14 "The great day of the Lord is near, near and hastening fast; the sound of the day of the Lord is bitter; the mighty man cries aloud there. 15 A day of wrath is that day, a day of distress and anguish, a day of ruin and devastation, a day of darkness and gloom, a day of clouds and thick darkness,..." Zephaniah 1:14,15[/smear:#7a097d:0]
I am thinking obesity is going to be a thing of the past at this point, as food will be super scarce.
Good one! I wanted to ask if you knew where to find scriptures to show that there is an age of accountability and the ones that show children will be raptured? I was kind of out of it the other day and forgot to ask you. If you don't I'd be happy to share some with you so you'll have them for future reference.
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,609
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Post by fearnot on Feb 19, 2020 12:33:49 GMT -5
Actually....no I don't know the scriptures for accountability and would love for you to give the verses.
The only thing (I think I know), is the Jews, consider 12 or is it 13 as the age......but I don't think that would apply to every child......some mature intellectually, or physically, or spiritual etc faster or quicker than other children......
Soooo, yes, thank you.
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,609
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Post by fearnot on Feb 19, 2020 12:52:31 GMT -5
The last verse of Revelation 8 is even more ominous....because we are being warned of worse to come by 3 woes!!!
[smear:#f20233]13 Then I looked, and I heard an eagle crying with a loud voice as it flew directly overhead, “Woe, woe, woe to those who dwell on the earth, at the blasts of the other trumpets that the three angels are about to blow!” Revelation 8:13[/smear:#1b0536:0]
Well it is interesting that an eagle is flying, that can talk. We have heard something like this before, in the 4 living creatures ( not that this is is that eagle, but maybe it could be). [smear:#043d3b]
7".........the fourth living creature like an eagle in flight." Revelation 4:7[/smear:#e619b2:0]
And also in Revelation we read this:
[smear:#235a4f]"17 Then I saw an angel standing in the sun, and with a loud voice he called to all the birds that fly directly overhead, " Revelation 19:17[/smear:#96e619:0]
The eagle is saying Woe, woe, woe....and the people of earth even this very day should be hearing:
[smear:#73ac0d]“Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion.” Hebrews 3:15[/smear:#e619ca:0]
I think the point of the 3 woes is to state, the next 3 trumpet judgments are going to be even worse..... super great calamities, extremely frightening, are coming on people now ( not nature).
Here are just a few of the many 'Woe' verses in the OT:
[smear:#1e042c]"Woe to the wicked! It shall be ill with him, for what his hands have dealt out shall be done to him". Isaiah 3:11[/smear:#097113:0]
[smear:#e619bd]Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter! Isaiah 5:20[/smear:#19e67e:0]
[smear:#211986]“Woe to the shepherds who destroy and scatter the sheep of my pasture!” declares the Lord." Jeremiah 23:1[/smear:#e61937:0]
[smear:#c02508]“And after all your wickedness (woe, woe to you! declares the Lord God), Ezekiel 16:23[/smear:#d019e6:0]
Well you get the idea, there are at least 90 woe verses, just in the Old Testament.
People cannot claim God didn't let them know....there are tons of Bibles to be read, but few people that will willing read them.
People go get their palms read, and study astrology, and go to all sort of people, read books etc., trying to know the future..... some will try almost every avenue, with great diligence
but ... there is only ONE they will not look at or study.... God's Word, the Bible!
Nevertheless, they cannot say, God....did not give them advance warning, but rather they choose to keep their eyes closed, and their ears plugged, because they preferred their sins.
Tomorrow, we will look at these 3 woes coming on the human race during the tribulation.
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Post by Cindy on Feb 20, 2020 10:53:00 GMT -5
Actually....no I don't know the scriptures for accountability and would love for you to give the verses.
The only thing (I think I know), is the Jews, consider 12 or is it 13 as the age......but I don't think that would apply to every child......some mature intellectually, or physically, or spiritual etc faster or quicker than other children......
Soooo, yes, thank you. Oh wow, I'm glad I asked then because I almost didn't as I was sure you already knew them!
This one is probably the only one that suggests an actual age. I don't believe that the age of 20 is true for everyone at all times, and don't know of any pastor who does either. I think the Lord used this age for a specific reason that was only true for that specific time. “In this desert your bodies will fall—every one of you twenty years old or more who was counted in the census and who has grumbled against me.” (Numbers 14:29) Theologians have asked when a person becomes accountable for his personal sins. Surely toddlers of 1 or 2 aren’t accountable. But what about children of 8 or 11? The Bible does not answer that question. But it’s suggestive that it was only those “twenty years and older” who were condemned to die in the wilderness. Apparently God is extremely gracious, and in this case fixed responsibility on only those who were clearly and unmistakably adult. The Bible reader’s companion And the Lord also said about this incident: “And the little ones that you said would be taken captive, your children who do not yet know good from bad—they will enter the land. I will give it to them and they will take possession of it.” (Deuteronomy 1:39) This shows that at 80, he does know the difference between good and bad: “I am now eighty years old. Can I tell the difference between what is good and what is not? Can your servant taste what he eats and drinks? Can I still hear the voices of men and women singers? Why should your servant be an added burden to my lord the king?” (2 Samuel 19:35)
I want to quote the next one in context for you: “Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel. He will eat curds and honey when he knows enough to reject the wrong and choose the right. But before the boy knows enough to reject the wrong and choose the right, the land of the two kings you dread will be laid waste.” (Isaiah 7:14–16)
I'll post this in context too: “But the LORD said, “You have been concerned about this vine, though you did not tend it or make it grow. It sprang up overnight and died overnight. But Nineveh has more than a hundred and twenty thousand people who cannot tell their right hand from their left, and many cattle as well. Should I not be concerned about that great city?”” (Jonah 4:10–11)
“Jesus said, “Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these.”” (Matthew 19:14) These children were too young to have exercised personal faith. See Lk 18:15, where Luke refers to them as “babies.” Therefore, it is all the more significant that Christ used them as an illustration of those who make up “the kingdom of heaven” (cf. 18:1–4). God often shows a special mercy to those who because of age or mental deficiency are incapable of either faith or willful unbelief (cf. Jon 4:11). They are called “innocent” in Jer 19:4. This does not mean they are free from the inherited guilt and moral corruption of Adam’s sin (see notes on Ro 5:12–19), but rather that they are not culpable in the same sense as those whose sins are premeditated and deliberate. Jesus’ words here suggest that God’s mercy is graciously extended to infants so that those who die are sovereignly regenerated and granted entrance into the kingdom—not because they are deserving of heaven, but because God in His grace chooses to redeem them. See notes on 2Sa 12:23; Mk 10:14: Jesus’ words imply that God graciously extends salvation to those too young or too mentally impaired to exercise faith. The MacArthur study Bible
“Once I was alive apart from law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died.” (Romans 7:9) This is from one of MacArthur's sermons: We’re all born as children of God, not responsible for our sins, & having eternal life. When we’re intellectually mature enough to understand the sin/salvation issue we become accountable for our sins & are subject to spiritual death. When we accept the Lord’s death as payment in full for all our sins, we are born again & go back to being children of God, no longer responsible for our sins, & are restored to eternal life. Reaching the age of accountability transformed children into adults but also robbed them of eternal life. Since there was no longer someone else upon whom to place the burden for their sins, they became responsible themselves & an execution order was immediately entered against them from Heaven. Paul was using his own life as an example of something that happens with every child. Since God’s Law had been part of Jewish life for over 1,000 years, Paul could not have been saying it was first implemented during his lifetime. Therefore he had to mean he was not accountable for his sins (violations of God’s law) from birth but became so at some point during his life. & since he was still alive when he wrote the book of Romans he couldn’t have been referring to his physical death when he said, “The commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died.” He had to be speaking of the time during his life when he became accountable for his sins & lost his eternal life. Therefore, Paul was saying he was born with eternal life & had it until the time he became accountable for his sins. At that time the penalty for his sins (which is death) was levied against him & he no longer had eternal life. This chain of events applies to all children. This point in a person’s life has been called “reaching the age of accountability.” It’s the time when a child has developed sufficient intellectual maturity to understand the nature & consequences of sin. In the Jewish culture this is traditionally age 12 for girls & 13 for boys, but no specific age is given in the Bible because children mature at different rates.
This scripture shows that newborn infants go to heaven: “He answered, “While the child was still alive, I fasted and wept. I thought, ‘Who knows? The LORD may be gracious to me and let the child live.’ But now that he is dead, why should I fast? Can I bring him back again? I will go to him, but he will not return to me.”” (2 Samuel 12:22–23)
The Bible is clear that all people are God’s creation (Col 1:16), & that God loves the entire world, but only those who are born again are children of God (John 1:12; 11:52; Rom 8:16; 1 John 3:1-10). In Scripture, the lost are never referred to as children of God. Eph 2:3 tells us that before we were saved we were “by nature objects of wrath.” Rom 9:8 says that “it's not the natural children who are God's children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham's offspring.” Instead of being born as God’s children, we're born in sin, which separates us from God & aligns us with Satan as God’s enemy (James 4:4; 1 John 3:8). Jesus said, “If God were your Father, you'd love me,” (John 8:42). Then a few verses later in John 8:44, Jesus told the Pharisees that they “belong to your father, the devil, & you want to carry out your father's desire.” The fact that those who aren't saved aren't children of God is also seen in 1 John 3:10. We become children of God when we are saved because we are adopted into God’s family through our relationship with Jesus. This can be clearly seen in verses like Rom 8:14-17. Those who are saved are children “of God through faith in Christ Jesus” (Gal 3:26) because God has “predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure & will” (Eph 1:5). When we’re born we belong to God, but when we become old enough to know right from wrong and our sins are counted against us, we become a child of Satan unless we make the conscious choice to remain a child of God. We do that by accepting the death of Jesus as payment in full for our sins and asking Him to be our savior. It’s how we’re born again as a child of God. (John 1:12) Failing to do that, we’re no longer “one of His own” and our assignment to Hell is considered by Him to be our own responsibility. Though He wishes that everyone would come to repentance, He respects that it’s our decision. (2 Peter 3:9;1 John 3:9-10; John 8:42-47) Are we all God's children
By the same reasoning, that children who have not yet reached the age of accountability, (which also includes adults who haven't come to that "age" due to retardation or some other problem) go to heaven, those same children (and adults) will also be taken in the rapture.
Some churches teach that this is only true for sure for those children who's parents are saved, but I haven't seen any indication of God making a distinction in the children. In fact, I've seen the opposite. But I wanted to let you know that some churches do teach that.
The last verse of Revelation 8 is even more ominous....because we are being warned of worse to come by 3 woes!!!
[smear:#f20233]13 Then I looked, and I heard an eagle crying with a loud voice as it flew directly overhead, “Woe, woe, woe to those who dwell on the earth, at the blasts of the other trumpets that the three angels are about to blow!” Revelation 8:13[/smear:#1b0536:0]
Well it is interesting that an eagle is flying, that can talk. We have heard something like this before, in the 4 living creatures ( not that this is is that eagle, but maybe it could be). [smear:#043d3b]
7".........the fourth living creature like an eagle in flight." Revelation 4:7[/smear:#e619b2:0]
And also in Revelation we read this:
[smear:#235a4f]"17 Then I saw an angel standing in the sun, and with a loud voice he called to all the birds that fly directly overhead, " Revelation 19:17[/smear:#96e619:0]
The eagle is saying Woe, woe, woe....and the people of earth even this very day should be hearing:
[smear:#73ac0d]“Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion.” Hebrews 3:15[/smear:#e619ca:0]
I think the point of the 3 woes is to state, the next 3 trumpet judgments are going to be even worse..... super great calamities, extremely frightening, are coming on people now ( not nature).
Here are just a few of the many 'Woe' verses in the OT:
[smear:#1e042c]"Woe to the wicked! It shall be ill with him, for what his hands have dealt out shall be done to him". Isaiah 3:11[/smear:#097113:0]
[smear:#e619bd]Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter! Isaiah 5:20[/smear:#19e67e:0]
[smear:#211986]“Woe to the shepherds who destroy and scatter the sheep of my pasture!” declares the Lord." Jeremiah 23:1[/smear:#e61937:0]
[smear:#c02508]“And after all your wickedness (woe, woe to you! declares the Lord God), Ezekiel 16:23[/smear:#d019e6:0]
Well you get the idea, there are at least 90 woe verses, just in the Old Testament.
People cannot claim God didn't let them know....there are tons of Bibles to be read, but few people that will willing read them.
People go get their palms read, and study astrology, and go to all sort of people, read books etc., trying to know the future..... some will try almost every avenue, with great diligence
but ... there is only ONE they will not look at or study.... God's Word, the Bible!
Nevertheless, they cannot say, God....did not give them advance warning, but rather they choose to keep their eyes closed, and their ears plugged, because they preferred their sins.
Tomorrow, we will look at these 3 woes coming on the human race during the tribulation.
good job!
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,609
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Post by fearnot on Feb 20, 2020 12:51:55 GMT -5
So now for the woes....woe (trumpet) number one ( I may not get thru all of it today)
[smear:#e619c6]And the fifth angel blew his trumpet, and I saw a star fallen from heaven to earth, and he was given the key to the shaft of the bottomless pit. Revelation 9:1[/smear:#350973:0]
Sometimes angels are referred to as 'stars' such as: [smear:#06441f] "7 when the morning stars sang together and all the sons of God shouted for joy?" Job 38:7[/smear:#a11366:0]
[smear:#e66219]“ 12 How you are fallen from heaven, O Day Star, son of Dawn! How you are cut down to the ground, you who laid the nations low! 13 You said in your heart, ‘I will ascend to heaven; above the stars of God" Isaiah 14:12,13[/smear:#4519e6:0]
Notice that the 'star' in Revelation verse one, is referred to as 'he'. Now as frightening and horrifying as all that has gone before, this is going to be waay worse, because in a sense Hell ( or the demons from there are coming).
People who are not believers are under the impression that basically things remain the same ( and will continue to do so) . Oh they might think the universe will grow cold and die a billion billion billion years from now, but that is so far away as to not be worth considering.....but instead, soon and very soon, things are going to change like they can't imagine.
So now they will see something and things they have never seen before....things will not go on as they always have.
So who is this star in Revelation 9:1? Well, I 'think' this rather long passage might pretty much identify him:
[smear:#b10e9e] "7 Now war arose in heaven, Michael and his angels fighting against the dragon. And the dragon and his angels fought back, 8 but he was defeated, and there was no longer any place for them in heaven. 9 And the great dragon was thrown down, that ancient serpent, who is called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world—he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him. 10 And I heard a loud voice in heaven, saying, “Now the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God and the authority of his Christ have come, for the accuser of our brothers has been thrown down, who accuses them day and night before our God. 11 And they have conquered him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, for they loved not their lives even unto death. 12 Therefore, rejoice, O heavens and you who dwell in them! But woe to you, O earth and sea, for the devil has come down to you in great wrath, because he knows that his time is short!” Revelation 12:7-12[/smear:#060328:0]
There is even a woe in those verses.
Also Jesus referred to this when He said:
[smear:#647911]18 And he (Jesus) said to them, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven." Luke 10:18[/smear:#7e19e6:0]
Tho satan was thrown out of Heaven during the war, he still had access to it, such as: [smear:#0b9fac] "6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came among them".Job 1:6[/smear:#2fe619:0]
We know evil, the devil and demons exist, but now with this judgment, they are going to increase like never before because..... more tomorrow
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Post by Cindy on Feb 21, 2020 11:44:34 GMT -5
So now for the woes....woe (trumpet) number one ( I may not get thru all of it today)
[smear:#e619c6]And the fifth angel blew his trumpet, and I saw a star fallen from heaven to earth, and he was given the key to the shaft of the bottomless pit. Revelation 9:1[/smear:#350973:0]
Sometimes angels are referred to as 'stars' such as: [smear:#06441f] "7 when the morning stars sang together and all the sons of God shouted for joy?" Job 38:7[/smear:#a11366:0]
[smear:#e66219]“ 12 How you are fallen from heaven, O Day Star, son of Dawn! How you are cut down to the ground, you who laid the nations low! 13 You said in your heart, ‘I will ascend to heaven; above the stars of God" Isaiah 14:12,13[/smear:#4519e6:0]
Notice that the 'star' in Revelation verse one, is referred to as 'he'. Now as frightening and horrifying as all that has gone before, this is going to be waay worse, because in a sense Hell ( or the demons from there are coming).
People who are not believers are under the impression that basically things remain the same ( and will continue to do so) . Oh they might think the universe will grow cold and die a billion billion billion years from now, but that is so far away as to not be worth considering.....but instead, soon and very soon, things are going to change like they can't imagine.
So now they will see something and things they have never seen before....things will not go on as they always have.
So who is this star in Revelation 9:1? Well, I 'think' this rather long passage might pretty much identify him:
[smear:#b10e9e] "7 Now war arose in heaven, Michael and his angels fighting against the dragon. And the dragon and his angels fought back, 8 but he was defeated, and there was no longer any place for them in heaven. 9 And the great dragon was thrown down, that ancient serpent, who is called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world—he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him. 10 And I heard a loud voice in heaven, saying, “Now the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God and the authority of his Christ have come, for the accuser of our brothers has been thrown down, who accuses them day and night before our God. 11 And they have conquered him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, for they loved not their lives even unto death. 12 Therefore, rejoice, O heavens and you who dwell in them! But woe to you, O earth and sea, for the devil has come down to you in great wrath, because he knows that his time is short!” Revelation 12:7-12[/smear:#060328:0]
There is even a woe in those verses.
Also Jesus referred to this when He said:
[smear:#647911]18 And he (Jesus) said to them, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven." Luke 10:18[/smear:#7e19e6:0]
Tho satan was thrown out of Heaven during the war, he still had access to it, such as: [smear:#0b9fac] "6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came among them".Job 1:6[/smear:#2fe619:0]
We know evil, the devil and demons exist, but now with this judgment, they are going to increase like never before because..... more tomorrow
very good explanation!
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,609
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Post by fearnot on Feb 21, 2020 11:50:00 GMT -5
awww cute graphic!!!
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,609
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Post by fearnot on Feb 21, 2020 12:10:32 GMT -5
Back to the first of the 3 woes [smear:#243e4f] "1 And the fifth angel blew his trumpet, and I saw a star fallen from heaven to earth, and he was given the key to the shaft of the bottomless pit. 2 He opened the shaft of the bottomless pit, and from the shaft rose smoke like the smoke of a great furnace, and the sun and the air were darkened with the smoke from the shaft". Revelation 9:1,2[/smear:#5c7d26:0]
This 'star' which is not a celestial body like a sun or comet, or meteor because it is a 'he' is given a key...
As I mentioned I think it is satan and some commentators think that he might also be Abaddon ( Apollyon) that is mentioned in V. 11 ( tho perhaps, that could be a lesser demon)
[smear:#2b6168]11 They have as king over them the angel of the bottomless pit. His name in Hebrew is Abaddon, and in Greek he is called Apollyon Revelation 9:11[/smear:#346523:0]
It seems insane that people would 'worship' demons, assuming they really understood and knew it, but scripture says they do and now, they are going to get their fill of them.
But verse 20 says this:
[smear:#301538]"20 The rest of mankind, who were not killed by these plagues, did not repent of the works of their hands nor give up worshiping demons Revelation 9:20[/smear:#33481a:0]
Unless, I am reading this wrong, it seems that even tho these terrible demonic and incredibly painful stings they unleash, does not make all people stop worshiping them??
So what am I talking about? Here is what happens:
[smear:#861586]3 "Then from the smoke came locusts on the earth, and they were given power like the power of scorpions of the earth. 4 They were told not to harm the grass of the earth or any green plant or any tree, but only those people who do not have the seal of God on their foreheads. 5 They were allowed to torment them for five months, but not to kill them, and their torment was like the torment of a scorpion when it stings someone" 6 And in those days people will seek death and will not find it.They will long to die, but death will flee from them . Revelation 9: 3-5[/smear:#60e619:0]
What is interesting and very sad is the massive locust plague happening right now....these are 'real' locust... but the ones in Revelation 9, have the outer body of these demons being locust like ( yet different!!!).
Jude gives us more information, I think, about these particular demons ( fallen angels):
[smear:#ac19e6]"6 And the angels who did not stay within their own position of authority, but left their proper dwelling, he has kept in eternal chains under gloomy darkness until the judgment of the great day" Jude 1:6[/smear:#0f1c2a:0]
All demons are evil to the core, but I get the impression that these are super malevolent and so were kept here until the judgment.
These demons looking like locust but with a sting like a scorpion makes it clear they are not normal earthly locust.
[smear:#88430e]"...they were given power like the power of scorpions of the earth. Revelation 9:3[/smear:#231a4c:0]
Earthly locust do not have a scorpion sting! Real locust eat the grass etc. Furthermore they also do not look like......
[smear:#8c910f]7 "In appearance the locusts were like horses prepared for battle: on their heads were what looked like crowns of gold; their faces were like human faces, 8 their hair like women's hair, and their teeth like lions' teeth; 9 they had breastplates like breastplates of iron, and the noise of their wings was like the noise of many chariots with horses rushing into battle". Revelation 9:7-9[/smear:#e61932:0]
Plus it says they have a king...real locust do not have a king.
Additionally they have power to inflict pain so bad people want to die. I guess ( but not really) if it was just a one time sting.... or maybe it only went on for a day, or a week unbelievers 'might' be able to get over it....kind of forgive and forget but seriously, I don't see how that could happen even if it was only for a day these are monsters, demons from the pit, I can't imagine anyone 'forgetting' such horror!
but this goes on for almost 1/2 a year.....5 whole months then how can they continue to worship demons???
But the do not torment those who belong to God.... wouldn't unbelievers notice that and repent, ask forgiveness etc. I am pretty sure they have heard the gospel by now. So prayerfully some may yet, as God does not allow these demons to kill them.
Which it sounds like is, IF God would let the demons freedom to kill, they could and would.
Oh and as a side note, in case someone wants to say, well of course they could not hurt the grass it was all burnt up earlier. But time has passed since that happened, so it might mean there was seed in the soil etc., and thus, there has been a partial recovery. But really these are NOT earthly locust!
And it may be this is a 'spiritual' pain....but torment and pain that people want to die, but they cannot and there is no relief. You would surely think, that after attempting drastic means of suicide perhaps over and over, crashing ones car over a cliff, or drinking poison, or shooting oneself in the head etc etc etc. but continue to live and not die... That too, would really wake people up to the truth, and they would run to Jesus for salvation!!
These verses in Job remind us of this:
[smear:#087c3b]"20 “Why is light given to him who is in misery, and life to the bitter in soul, 21 who long for death, but it comes not, and dig for it more than for hidden treasures, 22 who rejoice exceedingly and are glad when they find the grave"? Job 3:20-22[/smear:#18064f:0]
These demons they've been worshiping have just one purpose: to cause as much pain to humans as possible!!!
And tomorrow we will look at the 2nd Woe!!!
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,609
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Post by fearnot on Feb 22, 2020 15:15:18 GMT -5
And now for the 2nd Woe (trumpet #6), I am not sure if I can get thru all of it today, but here are the verses.
[smear:#530b17]13 Then the sixth angel blew his trumpet, and I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar before God, 14 saying to the sixth angel who had the trumpet, “Release the four angels who are bound at the great river Euphrates.” 15 So the four angels, who had been prepared for the hour, the day, the month, and the year, were released to kill a third of mankind. 16 The number of mounted troops was twice ten thousand times ten thousand; I heard their number. 17 And this is how I saw the horses in my vision and those who rode them: they wore breastplates the color of fire and of sapphire and of sulfur, and the heads of the horses were like lions' heads, and fire and smoke and sulfur came out of their mouths. 18 By these three plagues a third of mankind was killed, by the fire and smoke and sulfur coming out of their mouths. 19 For the power of the horses is in their mouths and in their tails, for their tails are like serpents with heads, and by means of them they wound. 20 The rest of mankind, who were not killed by these plagues, did not repent of the works of their hands nor give up worshiping demons and idols of gold and silver and bronze and stone and wood, which cannot see or hear or walk, 21 nor did they repent of their murders or their sorceries or their sexual immorality or their thefts. Revelation 9:13-21[/smear:#0d4a11:0]
Each trumpet bring more severe judgment and so it is with this one. They will still be some who will yet come to salvation, They might be like those who learn righteousness spoken of in Isaiah, but many others who will harden their hearts even more.
[smear:#7b189b]"......For when your judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world learn righteousness". Isaiah 26:9[/smear:#209218:0]
The 4 bound angels are clearly demons, and because there are only 4 of them they must be either very powerful, or very evil, or more likely, both!!
One might wonder, what's up with the Euphrates River? Well to begin with it was one of the four rivers of the Garden of Eden
[smear:#3cca47]"......And the fourth river is the Euphrates." Genesis 2:14[/smear:#19729f:0]
And therefore in the area where satan deceived Adam and Eve... the 1st lie, the 1st sin, the 1st murder, the tower of Babel was in the same area etc.
Anyway, these 4 demons seem to be sort of like commanders to a demonic horde/army.... and they will kill a 1/3 of humanity: I think the number comes to two hundred million of them!!! and they will kill a third of mankind, by fire and smoke and sulfur. When they are done over 1/2 of the earth's human population will have died ( when the 4th seal was opened 1/4 died and now 1/3).
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 7,609
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Post by fearnot on Feb 23, 2020 11:37:41 GMT -5
Today may be a short one for bible study I had a bad night of pain and little sleep.... plus have to get ready for church, and don't get back until one or two-ish
and then I am tired ( even with a good night's sleep)....
Plus, I am getting a late start....will try to do some this afternoon as well.
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