fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,397 
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John 17
Sept 27, 2019 10:46:04 GMT -5
Post by fearnot on Sept 27, 2019 10:46:04 GMT -5
John 17
First 1/3 John 17: 1-5
( I know this is crazy only 5 verses, but today both boys stayed home only Aalyiah went to school, but all manner of interruptions I seldom have and I feel like I am not concentrating to the degree I wish...
I did read the whole chapter twice but am only posting today on a few verses.)
This is a prayer of God the Son ( Jesus) ,
while on earth as, 100% man, and 100% God....
praying to God the Father.
The first part of the prayer is about Jesus, Himself, and the Father.
When I pray I often bow my head and close my eyes, but this says that Jesus lifted His eyes to Heaven.
Another difference is that our Lord says He has authority over all flesh and that God the Father and God the Son ( Jesus) were together before Creation.....they are co-equals!!!
He know it is time for Him to die on the cross.
And it is still hard for me to wrap my mind around the fact, that this horrible death will 'glorify' Jesus and God the Father.
And yet, those millions upon millions who have in the past, and those who do now believe in Him, have loved and worshiped Him because of His work on the cross......
the greatest show of Love that ever was or ever will be.
By His death on the cross, He also defeated the devil
( tho satan is still loose, he is a defeated foe, his days are numbered, and he lost at the cross.)
But Jesus is not only a love gift to us,
it is likewise a 'gift' between the Father and Son....
the Father gave us as a gift to Jesus.
I think the idea of predestination is presented in this chapter also.
I noticed several points that are repeated in this chapter....
one of them is about God's Word.
God's Word is the ONLY truth and believer's must know it, and if they belong to Jesus.....they will or do ( of course not totally, that isn't even possible) but they will be in the Word all of their born again life ...to some extent.
This has been about the craziest Bible Study day....endless things happening ( way more than I mentioned so far).
Anyway, I forgot, in v. 4 Jesus says an 'odd' thing:
".....having accomplished the work that you gave me to do. "
Here He is looking to the future, knowing the cross will be accomplished, or as we might say today: It's a done deal.....only this is the true greatest 'deal' that ever was or ever will be.....the greatest sacrifice, the greatest show of love, etc.
Then Jesus prays for the disciples....
Hopefully I might finish tomorrow or certainly do a bit more than today
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John 17
Sept 27, 2019 10:52:49 GMT -5
Post by Cindy on Sept 27, 2019 10:52:49 GMT -5
I love this chapter of John. I could easily say it's my favorite chapter in the whole Bible, simply because it's the amazing prayer of our Lord just before the end of His mission on this earth. It's just amazing to me that He has allowed us to listen in to His very intimate prayer to His Father. What an amazing gift He's given us! And that on top of our salvation! What an amazing God we serve, who loves us with an incredible love that's unlike anything we've seen before! Just before He's going to give His life for us, be tortured for us, instead of curling up in a ball and hiding away like I would, and thinking only of myself, He continues to think of us, of what will help us, and then gives us this prayer! This certainly proves if nothing else that Jesus was not a victim, but was the victor on His last day here. And because He was the victor, all of us can be too, if we'll only pay attention and obey what He tells us in His Word.
I don't want to take this topic away from Barbara, so I'm going to limit myself to this one thing:
“After Jesus said this, he looked toward heaven and prayed: “Father, the time has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may glorify you.” (John 17:1) As I read this verse, i thought it was important that we understand just what Jesus means by the word, "glorify," so I looked it up and will share that here.
To us “Glorify” means to make great. To Jesus it meant to reveal the true character of someone. In the NT the word always involved the manifesting the purpose of something in keeping with its nature. A peach, then, is the glory of a peach tree. The ultimate purpose of the seed & the bloom is to produce the fruit. There is no other way for a peach tree to be “glorified” except to produce peaches. Jesus came to fulfil God’s design. This was Christ’s only personal petition. It related only to the purpose of the Father to redeem men by the cross. Jesus wanted his own “glory” to be in that purpose (v. 3). As death approached, the whole redemptive plan of God drew close to realization. All sacrifice was now to find its true meaning. The teacher's Bible commentary
Glorify: to praise, extol, magnify, celebrate. To honour. To cause the dignity and worth of some person or thing to become manifest and acknowledged. Strong’s Lexicon.
Because He has been glorified in heaven, sinners can be saved on earth. The Bible exposition
Read each of these verses, noting the specific ways you can glorify God:
“Then Joshua said to Achan, “My son, give glory to the LORD, the God of Israel, and give him the praise. Tell me what you have done; do not hide it from me.”” (Joshua 7:19)
“He who sacrifices thank offerings honors me, and he prepares the way so that I may show him the salvation of God.”” (Psalm 50:23)
“This is to my Father’s glory, that you bear much fruit, showing yourselves to be my disciples.” (John 15:8)
“May the God who gives endurance and encouragement give you a spirit of unity among yourselves as you follow Christ Jesus, so that with one heart and mouth you may glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.” (Romans 15:5–6)
“you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your body.” (1 Corinthians 6:20) “Therefore God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.” (Philippians 2:9–11)
“Finally, brothers, pray for us that the message of the Lord may spread rapidly and be honored, just as it was with you.” (2 Thessalonians 3:1)
Sound theology that results in holy living hallows God’s name. Obedience is another way to hallow God’s name. Drawing Near
Here it is crucial to observe that what brings glory to the Godhead is the opportunity of eternal life for anyone who believes (v. 2)—an opportunity no other religion provides. The Apologetics Study Bible
Christ’s sole purpose in requesting glory for Himself was that He might glorify the Father, so there is no selfish motive in wanting glory. The Life of Christ
This also reminds me that Jesus has told us that we will share in His glory; that we too shall be glorified! Of course this won't happen until we are in Heaven with Him:
“Now if we are children, then we are heirs—heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory.” (Romans 8:17)
“I consider that our present sufferings are not worth comparing with the glory that will be revealed in us.” (Romans 8:18)
“And we, who with unveiled faces all reflect the Lord’s glory, are being transformed into his likeness with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit.” (2 Corinthians 3:18)
Knowing that we will share in His glory, we also have to realize that just as His glory came after hardship, so ours will also come after trials and hardships:
“strengthening the disciples and encouraging them to remain true to the faith. “We must go through many hardships to enter the kingdom of God,” they said.” (Acts 14:22)
It's an amazing thing to reflect on the fact that Jesus is glorified now, and will be glorified even more when the rapture happens, because everything we do or say that brings glory to Him, adds to the glory He already has. Then reflect on the idea that the Trinity and the entire family of God will be glorified together in the end! How amazing will that be?!
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John 17
Sept 27, 2019 10:57:11 GMT -5
Post by Cindy on Sept 27, 2019 10:57:11 GMT -5
when I finished my post I saw you had also started a new thread, but hadn't said anything yet on it, so I merged mine with yours. Yours has to be the opening post because you submitted it before I submitted mine.
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,397
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John 17
Sept 27, 2019 12:46:47 GMT -5
Post by fearnot on Sept 27, 2019 12:46:47 GMT -5
Oh good, I was going to say that mine was above yours.....this has been a crazy day of endless interruptions
So I was so happy to read you post.
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,397
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John 17
Sept 28, 2019 11:18:02 GMT -5
Post by fearnot on Sept 28, 2019 11:18:02 GMT -5
John 17: 6-
By His life on earth Jesus showed men the nature and character of God the Father.
It is in knowing Jesus is God the Son, that the apostles became disciplines by knowing God's Word ( the ONLY truth) thru Jesus.
When it says they kept your word, that is not just that maybe if they could, they wrote it down somewhere or more likely memorized it, but in fact, were also, obedient to it.
I think its important Jesus says He is not praying for the world....I am one who believes in predestination ( yes I also believe in free will).
I think of predestination and free will as a little like there is ONLY ONE God and yet, there are 3 persons in the Godhead. This is something I cannot truly comprehend fully, if I could I would be God. And so it is about the seemingly 2 opposites of predestination and free will.....but to me it is clear that predestination is all throughout the Bible....
And here it is again......Jesus only prays for those chosen before Creation.
He does not pray that the Father would take them out of the world but that they would have victory ( which may not look like the world's definition of victory).
If it had been me, as much as I would want to want what God wants....victory....there would be also, a bigger part of e, wish God would take me out of the world.....sooner rather than later.
Of course, I would be remiss to mention ( what we studied one time for weeks :-)
Joy
"......that they may have my joy fulfilled in themselves."
So there is that!!! I mean it is possible while in the world to have the joy of Jesus.
And God has given me more joy and continues to ( tho my 70 plus years of seeing the glass half full...or near empty, continues to be a struggle....
but at one time, I would not have believed God could comfort me, give me a peace or joy....so I would say that IS transformation....
even tho I still struggle...sometimes greatly, even now.
I think one of the biggest reason I would love to leave this earth now, is to be completely free of my own sin....and of course I grieve the overwhelming sin in the world......but its more about never ever sinning again.....to me that would be endless joy of Jesus.
But Jesus did not pray just for the apostles and believers alive when He was on earth but those future believers as well.
He also prayed for unity among true believers ( remember there will be weeds or tares mix in until the time of harvest)....still true believers do have a completely unique understanding and agreement and unity with each other ( on all the basics ).
We are destined to be one : ".....that they may be one even as we are one".
It's interesting that at that time Jesus did not have a lot of true believers and yet He knew ( as only God would know) there would be.
Again Jesus does not talk about being crucified in this passage,
but rather about it being His glory.
Such a hard concept, but it showed that only He could do it....
and so He has been honored throughout history.
Only he could have so much love to go thru with it.....we know he could have avoided it......
did not the soldiers that came to arrest Him, fall to the ground?
he could have annihilated them all in a microsecond.
And of course, He also knew He would resurrect.
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John 17
Sept 30, 2019 10:31:11 GMT -5
Post by Cindy on Sept 30, 2019 10:31:11 GMT -5
John 17
First 1/3 John 17: 1-5
( I know this is crazy only 5 verses, but today both boys stayed home only Aalyiah went to school, but all manner of interruptions I seldom have and I feel like I am not concentrating to the degree I wish...
I did read the whole chapter twice but am only posting today on a few verses.)
This is a prayer of God the Son ( Jesus) ,
while on earth as, 100% man, and 100% God....
praying to God the Father.
The first part of the prayer is about Jesus, Himself, and the Father.
When I pray I often bow my head and close my eyes, but this says that Jesus lifted His eyes to Heaven.
Another difference is that our Lord says He has authority over all flesh and that God the Father and God the Son ( Jesus) were together before Creation.....they are co-equals!!!
He know it is time for Him to die on the cross.
And it is still hard for me to wrap my mind around the fact, that this horrible death will 'glorify' Jesus and God the Father.
And yet, those millions upon millions who have in the past, and those who do now believe in Him, have loved and worshiped Him because of His work on the cross......
the greatest show of Love that ever was or ever will be.
By His death on the cross, He also defeated the devil
( tho satan is still loose, he is a defeated foe, his days are numbered, and he lost at the cross.)
But Jesus is not only a love gift to us,
it is likewise a 'gift' between the Father and Son....
the Father gave us as a gift to Jesus.
I think the idea of predestination is presented in this chapter also.
I noticed several points that are repeated in this chapter....
one of them is about God's Word.
God's Word is the ONLY truth and believer's must know it, and if they belong to Jesus.....they will or do ( of course not totally, that isn't even possible) but they will be in the Word all of their born again life ...to some extent.
This has been about the craziest Bible Study day....endless things happening ( way more than I mentioned so far).
Anyway, I forgot, in v. 4 Jesus says an 'odd' thing:
".....having accomplished the work that you gave me to do. "
Here He is looking to the future, knowing the cross will be accomplished, or as we might say today: It's a done deal.....only this is the true greatest 'deal' that ever was or ever will be.....the greatest sacrifice, the greatest show of love, etc.
Then Jesus prays for the disciples....
Hopefully I might finish tomorrow or certainly do a bit more than today
Oh good, I was going to say that mine was above yours.....this has been a crazy day of endless interruptions
So I was so happy to read you post. 
John 17: 6-
By His life on earth Jesus showed men the nature and character of God the Father.
It is in knowing Jesus is God the Son, that the apostles became disciplines by knowing God's Word ( the ONLY truth) thru Jesus.
When it says they kept your word, that is not just that maybe if they could, they wrote it down somewhere or more likely memorized it, but in fact, were also, obedient to it.
I think its important Jesus says He is not praying for the world....I am one who believes in predestination ( yes I also believe in free will).
I think of predestination and free will as a little like there is ONLY ONE God and yet, there are 3 persons in the Godhead. This is something I cannot truly comprehend fully, if I could I would be God. And so it is about the seemingly 2 opposites of predestination and free will.....but to me it is clear that predestination is all throughout the Bible....
And here it is again......Jesus only prays for those chosen before Creation.
He does not pray that the Father would take them out of the world but that they would have victory ( which may not look like the world's definition of victory).
If it had been me, as much as I would want to want what God wants....victory....there would be also, a bigger part of e, wish God would take me out of the world.....sooner rather than later.
Of course, I would be remiss to mention ( what we studied one time for weeks :-)
Joy
"......that they may have my joy fulfilled in themselves."
So there is that!!! I mean it is possible while in the world to have the joy of Jesus.
And God has given me more joy and continues to ( tho my 70 plus years of seeing the glass half full...or near empty, continues to be a struggle....
but at one time, I would not have believed God could comfort me, give me a peace or joy....so I would say that IS transformation....
even tho I still struggle...sometimes greatly, even now.
I think one of the biggest reason I would love to leave this earth now, is to be completely free of my own sin....and of course I grieve the overwhelming sin in the world......but its more about never ever sinning again.....to me that would be endless joy of Jesus.
But Jesus did not pray just for the apostles and believers alive when He was on earth but those future believers as well.
He also prayed for unity among true believers ( remember there will be weeds or tares mix in until the time of harvest)....still true believers do have a completely unique understanding and agreement and unity with each other ( on all the basics ).
We are destined to be one : ".....that they may be one even as we are one".
It's interesting that at that time Jesus did not have a lot of true believers and yet He knew ( as only God would know) there would be.
Again Jesus does not talk about being crucified in this passage,
but rather about it being His glory.
Such a hard concept, but it showed that only He could do it....
and so He has been honored throughout history.
Only he could have so much love to go thru with it.....we know he could have avoided it......
did not the soldiers that came to arrest Him, fall to the ground?
he could have annihilated them all in a microsecond.
And of course, He also knew He would resurrect.
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,397
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John 17
Sept 30, 2019 13:06:39 GMT -5
Post by fearnot on Sept 30, 2019 13:06:39 GMT -5
I don't know if you noticed ( I should have said....sorry :-( )
that I started yesterday a topic on fear?
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!!
