fearnot
Living With Pain
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Post by fearnot on Sept 20, 2018 14:00:51 GMT -5
Acts 2: 43-
Two things I did not think of but read in a commentary about v. 43 was that it was not a big beautiful church designed by a great architect with stain glass windows, etc. that caused the awe....
and secondly, the church today does not cause much fear or awe or respect, in people today ( so many are seeker friendly, and they do not want to offend anyone).
I get the feeling the next verse, is often misused by those with a political agenda who wish to enforce socialism or communism, they point to this verse to say, see....even the Bible says it the right way!!!
First this was during the Jewish holidays and hospitality was a big thing and also this was not the law or forced, it was out of love.
and as it goes into v. 45 the example to me is closely connected with Mark 8:36
"For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul"?
and also
Matthew 25:45
"Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me".
so they were hospitable and generous and not into keeping up with the Jones.
so onto v.46 here it was not just a one day a week for an hour, but daily ( an example for me, not only to be in the Word daily, but with gladness (joy)and singleness of heart).
and in v. 47 they also continue to thank and praise God (not self)....and God added to the church daily!!!
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Post by Cindy on Sept 21, 2018 11:54:58 GMT -5
Your reply was so helpful!!! I can't thank you enough!!!!!!!!!!
An interesting thing, today I was listening to Amir Tsarfati....
a Jew from Israel who is a believer and Bible teacher, Jan Markell has him at her conferences
( I really like him, and so does Leonard).
Anyway, Leonard told me that Amir had a new video out, and I asked if it was good, and he said, yes as it always is.
So, I watched.
What was interesting to me, was near the end of the video, Amir was saying how the Jews are all fasting in Israel now,
but
they make a big display to each other, rather than rending their hearts to God ( perhaps not word perfect but that was his point).
He went on to say, many religions do this
( make a big show to everyone instead of focusing on their sins and God)
Which is what they would do in the cult
as they would all do Ramadan...
it was not a or done in 'secret'
they often might joke about it ( like weird things that happened as a result, or if they were hungry etc.etc). ....
But the thing was, this was just one of many things that I saw as so wrong about it, but I never said...
but God brought it up, thru Amir's video.
I do not know if Leonard made the same connection, but he heard the video....so you are so right....
I need to and have been leaving it up to God.
But I never thought about the fact, many people who are baptized still have many false ideas.
Certainly Leonard has many right ideas and more added each day and it is up to God.
But that takes away one of my biggest concerns, so thank you soooo much.
No doubt, I too have an eternity of learning about God....so as the teens would say....
yeah! Acts 2: 43-
Two things I did not think of but read in a commentary about v. 43 was that it was not a big beautiful church designed by a great architect with stain glass windows, etc. that caused the awe....
and secondly, the church today does not cause much fear or awe or respect, in people today ( so many are seeker friendly, and they do not want to offend anyone).
I get the feeling the next verse, is often misused by those with a political agenda who wish to enforce socialism or communism, they point to this verse to say, see....even the Bible says it the right way!!!
First this was during the Jewish holidays and hospitality was a big thing and also this was not the law or forced, it was out of love.
and as it goes into v. 45 the example to me is closely connected with Mark 8:36
"For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul"?
and also
Matthew 25:45
"Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me".
so they were hospitable and generous and not into keeping up with the Jones.
so onto v.46 here it was not just a one day a week for an hour, but daily ( an example for me, not only to be in the Word daily, but with gladness (joy)and singleness of heart).
and in v. 47 they also continue to thank and praise God (not self)....and God added to the church daily!!!
I like how MacArthur explained this: all things in common. "This phrase conveys not that the early Christians lived in a commune or pooled & redistributed everything equally, but that they held their own possessions lightly, ready to use them at any moment for someone else, as needs arose." The only thing I'd add to that is that it showed how great their love for God and each other was, that they'd be willing to sell their land or belongings in order to help fellow believers who had nothing. A lot of folks don't stop to think that when 3000 people were added to the church, many of them weren't residents of Jerusalem. They'd come for the holiday as God commanded them to do and now that they were saved, they didn't want to leave, as there wasn't anyone else who could teach them about Jesus. It all goes back to this verse: “Now there were staying in Jerusalem God-fearing Jews from every nation under heaven.” (Acts 2:5) So they stayed in Jerusalem and they often had nowhere to go other than the temporary shelters they built. Some may have been staying with family or friends, but once they became believers they wouldn't be welcome there any longer. So these new Christians quite literally gave up everything to follow Christ. |
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,397
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Post by fearnot on Sept 21, 2018 14:32:12 GMT -5
Acts 3: 1-5
Several commentaries mention how different in personality Peter and John were and yet here they are praying together and are probably not surprised by a lame man at the gate called Beautiful, who asked for alms daily, but this time Peter responds, perhaps now because of the Holy Spirit.
As an aside, this gate was called beautiful, but the lame man was marred.
He sees John and Peter and asks for alms. They tell him, to look and he does, with expectation to receive something. We look on the hurting and give them the greatest gift of all.....eternal salvation from and by Jesus.
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,397
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Post by fearnot on Sept 21, 2018 15:32:27 GMT -5
Your comment made a lot of sense based on scripture...the fact they were not from Jerusalem and it was only there as new born believers they could learn more...but of course had not intended for a lengthy stay wen they left from where ever they had come from.
Thank you!
Oh I did some on the 'beauty' study and this but our electric was off until afternoon as the big electric trucks came to work on the lines to our complex....so I could not get on the net, which is partially why its a bit short and skimpy.
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,397
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Post by fearnot on Sept 22, 2018 15:16:54 GMT -5
Acts 3:6-10
Peter was not worldly rich, but he was Heavenly 'rich' (from God the Father, Jesus, and Holy Spirit).
I feel fairly certain the beggar preferred being able to walk, then to get a few coins!! It was done in the name ( which has power and authority) of Jesus, which is more than enough.
( even more than walking, is being saved).....because ultimately what we need is not money, or even health, but Jesus.
Peter took the beggar's right hand and helped him up and the beggar was healed!!
And this man who never walked before even, leaped up and kept leaping ( and walking) but not only that...he praised God ( always a good thing to do, since we are all spiritually lame!!!) it suggests a spiritual healing also, far more than we could even expect or think of.
This was another true miracle because all the people in the temple knew him, he had been lame from birth and begging for years and years.....but now he was leaping for Joy.
All the glory goes to Jesus....not to Peter....miracles point to God as God.
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,397
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Post by fearnot on Sept 23, 2018 14:38:18 GMT -5
Acts 3: 11-14
The people thought the miracle was done by Peter and John by their own power being utterly astonished, the ran ( not walked) to the portico called Solomon's and gazed at them.
But Peter sets them straight, it was not them that gets the glory, but God!!
He also points out the truth to them about their sins ( an example for us...most people who are not believers do not like to talk about or look at their sins, but it is of major importance....unless people know there is a massive problem, they cannot know they need a Savior.
Most of all the had Perfect, Holy and righteous Jesus killed, in exchange for a guilty man!!
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Post by Cindy on Sept 24, 2018 10:40:13 GMT -5
Acts 3: 1-5
Several commentaries mention how different in personality Peter and John were and yet here they are praying together and are probably not surprised by a lame man at the gate called Beautiful, who asked for alms daily, but this time Peter responds, perhaps now because of the Holy Spirit.
As an aside, this gate was called beautiful, but the lame man was marred.
He sees John and Peter and asks for alms. They tell him, to look and he does, with expectation to receive something. We look on the hurting and give them the greatest gift of all.....eternal salvation from and by Jesus.
Your comment made a lot of sense based on scripture...the fact they were not from Jerusalem and it was only there as new born believers they could learn more...but of course had not intended for a lengthy stay wen they left from where ever they had come from.
Thank you!
Oh I did some on the 'beauty' study and this but our electric was off until afternoon as the big electric trucks came to work on the lines to our complex....so I could not get on the net, which is partially why its a bit short and skimpy. Acts 3:6-10
Peter was not worldly rich, but he was Heavenly 'rich' (from God the Father, Jesus, and Holy Spirit).
I feel fairly certain the beggar preferred being able to walk, then to get a few coins!! It was done in the name ( which has power and authority) of Jesus, which is more than enough.
( even more than walking, is being saved).....because ultimately what we need is not money, or even health, but Jesus.
Peter took the beggar's right hand and helped him up and the beggar was healed!!
And this man who never walked before even, leaped up and kept leaping ( and walking) but not only that...he praised God ( always a good thing to do, since we are all spiritually lame!!!) it suggests a spiritual healing also, far more than we could even expect or think of.
This was another true miracle because all the people in the temple knew him, he had been lame from birth and begging for years and years.....but now he was leaping for Joy.
All the glory goes to Jesus....not to Peter....miracles point to God as God.
Acts 3: 11-14
The people thought the miracle was done by Peter and John by their own power being utterly astonished, the ran ( not walked) to the portico called Solomon's and gazed at them.
But Peter sets them straight, it was not them that gets the glory, but God!!
He also points out the truth to them about their sins ( an example for us...most people who are not believers do not like to talk about or look at their sins, but it is of major importance....unless people know there is a massive problem, they cannot know they need a Savior.
Most of all the had Perfect, Holy and righteous Jesus killed, in exchange for a guilty man!!
So what now? Are we going to do the other study or this one? I don't think it's a good idea to try and do both at the same time any more.
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,397
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Post by fearnot on Sept 24, 2018 11:18:19 GMT -5
I was going to say, lets try for one more week.....but I think you are right,, until Christmas is over, life most likely will get busy.
Things usually slow down in Jan. but maybe even the godly woman study will be over by then....
Actually, this past weekend was busy as it usually is when landlord comes down.
But I also have been fighting a weird infection for weeks now.
I think it was the result of one of Hossanah's cats when it jumped off my lap.
They sometimes ( not even meaning to) dig their claws into my stomach.
In any case, it eventually grew to about 3" real puffy, red etc.
I kept putting antibiotics on it.....and it would go back to about the size of an eraser.....
but then, would grow again to several inches.
Finally yesterday, it broke open ( part anyway) and lots of bloody pus keeps pouring out. yuck!!
But I think that may be a good thing finally.
Still that made me very tired....tho I sometimes only do a few verses, anyway, and occasionally a paragraph or two.
However, I just got asked to do 5 pet paintings....I cannot do that many by Christmas, but I will be also working on them, until done.
So yes, let's do the godly woman
and come back to acts when done
or if everything slows to a snail's crawl in Jan. maybe we could try both again then ( if that study is not done?)
But I I guess, will continue reading my Bible on my own until we get back to it....??
tho if we will find ourselves in scripture studying it a lot doing this study, I may just let that be my Bible study for now?
I kind of often do that during the day.....Like right now I am reading John MacArthur's book the gospel according to Jesus.
sometimes he will print out a verse, but often if will just give the reference....so I go look them up....which sometimes I find my self going to a different part of the Bible.....its not like a full on study....but it is in the Word....for very short times throughout the day or night.
Anyway....today, I will just go to the other study.
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Post by Cindy on Sept 27, 2018 10:51:39 GMT -5
I'm sorry you got hurt, it sounds nasty! Yes, lets just do the Beauty Study for now and for you bible study at home, you could continue to concentrate on Proverbs if you think that would be helpful. That would help with the study anyway. But do what you feel led to do by the Lord, not me.
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,397
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Post by fearnot on Nov 19, 2018 15:10:38 GMT -5
Acts 3: 11-26
Having performed a miracle by God Holy Spirit, the people were in awe of the apostles Peter and John, as tho they had done the miracle of healing the crippled man.
Peter seizes the moment to first, give the Glory, praise, honor, etc. to be focused on God the son, Jesus, who truly performed the miracle.
It was not in themselves, as if they were some sort of 'miracle workers, or such 'holy men' or perfect 'saints ( like the Catholics believe),
but only that God worked thru them,
so Peter points the people to Jesus, the true miracle worker, the true totally Holy one, the true perfect one.
Since they did not have, in themselves, the power of doing miracles, but rather the very Jesus that was killed, it was and is is Jesus that is the one responsible, who has the real power,
therefore Jesus was and is therefore alive, being raised by God the Father (and is back in Heaven).
Peter points to the fact that all men are sinners....and these men asked for a murdered instead of Jesus. Which basically is what the nonbelievers of today do..... and satan is a 'murder' that unbelievers are still choosing.
They (the people Peter is addressing), as are all people, before they believe in Christ, were vile rebellious,and hateful sinners.
We , as did they, need to understand that, before we can turn from it, to Jesus and be converted, saved, and born again.
Peter showed that Jesus was the prophesied Messiah,
and that they should repent ( and be saved).
Not just those men present but the nation of Israel....
but... the nation did not, so it is on hold.
All those who reject Lord Jesus will be eternally lost.
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,397
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Post by fearnot on Nov 20, 2018 15:19:20 GMT -5
Acts 4: 1-12
As Peter and John were speaking, the priests, Sadducees, with the captain of the temple come and were greatly annoyed.
They were annoyed at what Peter and John were teaching about Jesus, and so they were arrested.
This is important for us as believers today, because persecution for our faith started right from the beginning, and has gone on thru and up to today.....and we may face more of it even in our country before the Lord raptures us. So it is an example of how to act and speak if or when it happens to us.
However verse 4 caught me off guard ( I actually have read and even studied Acts before, but you won't be surprised that I somehow skipped over the fact that:
v. 4 "But many of those who had heard the word believed, and the number of the men came to about five thousand".
I knew a lot, a huge number believed at Pentecost but now 5,000!!!
I somehow thought the 'crowd' that had gathered around for the healing of the lame man was maybe 40 or 50 men, maybe a few hundred tops!! But now I am thinking that if 5,000 believed, then there had to be those in the crowd who did NOT believe so the number maybe was waaaay more than 5,000?
Anyway, they did a miracle and healed a man thru God's power, then they preached, and boom, along comes opposition, anger, envy, and persecution.....I guess we need to count the cost, and be prepared. Even if the Lord were to do great things, kind, compassionate things thru us, that does not mean all folks will be grateful and pat us on the back.....no it could be, just the opposite ( think of Jesus), and don't be surprised, but expect, persecution if we follow our Lord.
Even now, most Christians in the USA have gotten verbally attacked as narrow minded, bigoted, ignorant, uneducated, or intolerant, racist, Islamophobic, etc. etc.
Of course, Jesus promised this would happen because in reality, it is Jesus they hate ( even more than the Christian).
But often, it will be those who are liberal 'Christians', or those who are 'spiritual' or some PHD at some grand college, way more than some criminal, or drug addict or drunk etc.
Peter and John do not resist arrest tho, nor do they grumble and complain how unfair it is.
The hearing was the next day with the rulers and elders and scribes, Annas the high priest, and Caiaphas and others.
These folks put Peter and John in the center...
oh wait!
That would be a good place to proclaim the gospel.....something for us to remember.
And Peter was filled with the Holy spirit! This is a way to deal with persecution, if you get the chance...pray and rely on the Holy Spirit ( and have had daily study Word). Then we will be more than conquerors ( even if we die, God will use or words to plant a seed).
Peter points out they were suffering for doing a good thing, but even more it was because of the Lord, who they rejected as the cornerstone!
and then, verse 12:
"Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved."
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Post by Cindy on Nov 21, 2018 11:48:00 GMT -5
Acts 3: 11-26
Having performed a miracle by God Holy Spirit, the people were in awe of the apostles Peter and John, as tho they had done the miracle of healing the crippled man.
Peter seizes the moment to first, give the Glory, praise, honor, etc. to be focused on God the son, Jesus, who truly performed the miracle.
It was not in themselves, as if they were some sort of 'miracle workers, or such 'holy men' or perfect 'saints ( like the Catholics believe),
but only that God worked thru them,
so Peter points the people to Jesus, the true miracle worker, the true totally Holy one, the true perfect one.
Since they did not have, in themselves, the power of doing miracles, but rather the very Jesus that was killed, it was and is is Jesus that is the one responsible, who has the real power,
therefore Jesus was and is therefore alive, being raised by God the Father (and is back in Heaven).
Peter points to the fact that all men are sinners....and these men asked for a murdered instead of Jesus. Which basically is what the nonbelievers of today do..... and satan is a 'murder' that unbelievers are still choosing.
They (the people Peter is addressing), as are all people, before they believe in Christ, were vile rebellious,and hateful sinners.
We , as did they, need to understand that, before we can turn from it, to Jesus and be converted, saved, and born again.
Peter showed that Jesus was the prophesied Messiah,
and that they should repent ( and be saved).
Not just those men present but the nation of Israel....
but... the nation did not, so it is on hold.
All those who reject Lord Jesus will be eternally lost.
Acts 4: 1-12
As Peter and John were speaking, the priests, Sadducees, with the captain of the temple come and were greatly annoyed.
They were annoyed at what Peter and John were teaching about Jesus, and so they were arrested.
This is important for us as believers today, because persecution for our faith started right from the beginning, and has gone on thru and up to today.....and we may face more of it even in our country before the Lord raptures us. So it is an example of how to act and speak if or when it happens to us.
However verse 4 caught me off guard ( I actually have read and even studied Acts before, but you won't be surprised that I somehow skipped over the fact that:
v. 4 "But many of those who had heard the word believed, and the number of the men came to about five thousand".
I knew a lot, a huge number believed at Pentecost but now 5,000!!!
I somehow thought the 'crowd' that had gathered around for the healing of the lame man was maybe 40 or 50 men, maybe a few hundred tops!! But now I am thinking that if 5,000 believed, then there had to be those in the crowd who did NOT believe so the number maybe was waaaay more than 5,000?
Anyway, they did a miracle and healed a man thru God's power, then they preached, and boom, along comes opposition, anger, envy, and persecution.....I guess we need to count the cost, and be prepared. Even if the Lord were to do great things, kind, compassionate things thru us, that does not mean all folks will be grateful and pat us on the back.....no it could be, just the opposite ( think of Jesus), and don't be surprised, but expect, persecution if we follow our Lord.
Even now, most Christians in the USA have gotten verbally attacked as narrow minded, bigoted, ignorant, uneducated, or intolerant, racist, Islamophobic, etc. etc.
Of course, Jesus promised this would happen because in reality, it is Jesus they hate ( even more than the Christian).
But often, it will be those who are liberal 'Christians', or those who are 'spiritual' or some PHD at some grand college, way more than some criminal, or drug addict or drunk etc.
Peter and John do not resist arrest tho, nor do they grumble and complain how unfair it is.
The hearing was the next day with the rulers and elders and scribes, Annas the high priest, and Caiaphas and others.
These folks put Peter and John in the center...
oh wait!
That would be a good place to proclaim the gospel.....something for us to remember.
And Peter was filled with the Holy spirit! This is a way to deal with persecution, if you get the chance...pray and rely on the Holy Spirit ( and have had daily study Word). Then we will be more than conquerors ( even if we die, God will use or words to plant a seed).
Peter points out they were suffering for doing a good thing, but even more it was because of the Lord, who they rejected as the cornerstone!
and then, verse 12:
"Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved."
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,397
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Post by fearnot on Nov 21, 2018 12:42:32 GMT -5
Thank you Cindy!! And have a wonderful Thanks-Giving day :-)
I am of course still praying for Bruce and you.
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,397
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Post by fearnot on Nov 21, 2018 14:01:05 GMT -5
Acts4: 13-22
I couldn't help but think that in an evil way, the devil has weaved at that time, and perhaps,
even more so now,
a diabolical trap.
To many people, you are only worthy to be listen to, if, you have a college education, and the more degrees you have, the more you are to be honored and listened to.
However.... often, universities
( or as in Peter and John's day formal rabbinic training)
is mostly spent in learning satan's lies.
Nevertheless, this trap does not stop God!!
Because ,like King David, who said in Psalm 119, that he had "more understanding than all my teachers", being filled with the Holy Spirit, so did Peter and John.
In fact, the learned men who put them on trial, recognize them as having been with Jesus ( and no man has ever spoke as God the Son , nor ever will).
Indeed, I would so love that people would see that in my conversation.
Yet, this is an encouragement for those of us who feel they are not trained enough, or because they don't have a bunch of PHD's, and so therefore, they are not qualified to speak to anyone about Jesus, the Bible etc.
NOT so....
just look at Peter and John...
fisherman, with great extraordinary impact.....
because their source, their power, etc. came from God.
The learned men had another problem....there was a healed man standing there, and thousands upon thousands knew it!!
Soooo they could not deny it.
They definitely do not want this to continue spreading, so they try to impose a gag order....telling (ummm maybe more like a threat?),
Peter and John they can go free, but.....don't tell, especially..... do not speak of Jesus!!!
Basically end your preaching also.
Wow! We are dealing with this in our own country....certainly do not speak of Jesus in the classroom, nor in the work place, nor in government building, nor here or there.....
so maybe we can learn something here about how we should handle such threats ( not that we should disrupt work), but perhaps at lunch,
and is school not a place to deal with ideas...
if children can learn other 'religions', on the basis of studying 'cultures'.....
then Christianity ought to be included, not be the only one excluded.
I think this is the main point for me concerning this issue:
to be a man pleaser and be 'safe" ,
or, to love the Lord with all my heart, mind etc.
the answer is in verse 19
v. 19 ""Whether it is right in the sight of God to give heed to you rather than to God..."
The answer to me is pretty clear....not man, but God.
I am not saying it is always easy tho
( fear is my middle name)....
but it is getting easier. ( as I see how sinful mankind is, and myself)
It is getting less popular ( was it ever?),
certainly less and less safe,
but it has never changed....it is the absolute truth and true love.
And a final point on the miracle, this was not a man who had a temporary loss of being able to walk, like some injury that lasted awhile...no, it had been from birth and had lasted 40 plus years!!
so even tho satan knows that we humans are often ( or maybe even mostly) weak and fearful people,
so does God....
and He can and will equip us, strengthen us, give us His power etc.
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,397
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Post by fearnot on Nov 22, 2018 13:12:59 GMT -5
Acts 4: 23-31
The first thing Peter and John do, having been released, is to go to other believers and tell them exactly what happened.
It seems the problem of potential 'fake' news, is not a new thing!
Nor did they edit out the 'scary' parts.
I just can't resist mentioning, how sad it is, that young folks today in college, are being programmed ( it seems?) to be so weak, unable to handle anything scary....
I just saw yesterday that at some college, professors got a memo, never to use caps because it is so scary to students!!
The kids already have 'safe' rooms, and many places don't allow 'clapping'....it also is too scary, you are just to gently wave your hands.....
and I thought ,I was the worst scared coward in the whole world!!!
Well to love God and put Him first, often means you will be in major scary trouble with men.
Well, what lesson in this is for me or others easily scared?
As the persecution is getting worse, the group of believers pray and praise God, who is infinitely powerful, He is the Creator of everything!!
It is also helpful to see they prayed based mostly on the Word of God. I know I am often guilty of just asking for things ( even good things) in my own or secular words...
not that that is wrong or bad, or that I HAVE to follow some set of rules to pray...
However, I do think, it would be good for me to include waaaay more of God's Word, thank Him more often, and praise Him more, when I pray .....and this passage is one example of that.
In their prayer, they look to God's Word (psalm 2), where persecution is stated and foretold, as the gentiles 'rage' etc. As Jesus experienced this rage, we should not be surprised when it happens to us.
ALL people are responsible for Jesus death on the Cross,
but it was also God's plan.
The believer's point out ( to the Lord in their prayer), the threats,
and then, petition God that they might have boldness ( the opposite of fear).....(basically for courage).
Another good example for me and a prayer I could pray.
Then there was a shaking (earthquake), and they were filled with the Holy Spirit and their petition for boldness was granted!!!
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,397
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Post by fearnot on Nov 23, 2018 13:26:47 GMT -5
Acts 4: 32-37
it seems like for a short time, they were all believers, and no non-believers were mixed in. As a result of all belonging to the Lord, the did not hang onto 'things' but out of love for each other were willing to give whatever was needed to those in need.
This generosity was not forced ( like in some governments, politics it was not socialism, Marxism, or communism ) but came from hearts and souls of Christian love. the believers didn't claim exclusive rights to their things.
The apostles did not preach about a dead Savior but an alive one.
They cared for and about each other, and brought their possession to the apostles who would then distribute to who had need.
I think it interesting that another way to give, is like Barnabas (which translated means Son of Encouragement) ...by being encouraging.
Since I do not have a lot of 'stuff'....but I can grow more as an encourager.
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,397
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Post by fearnot on Nov 24, 2018 14:45:39 GMT -5
Acts 5:1-11
Ananias and Sapphira
We go from the generous sharing of believers, now to a not so generous sharing, coupled with the sin of lying, to man, and more so....to God!!!
Barnabas had sold a tract of land generously given to the church and so Ananias and his wife did also.....but with a big difference.
I speculate maybe they wanted to look as good as Barnabas, but, in fact, did not have the same generous spirit as Barnabas.
However, neither Barnabas, nor Ananias and his wife, HAD to sell and give all the money to the church.
This was not some sort of rule being enforced !!
Still, I think at one time or another we have all struggled with wanting to be liked, look good to men, are filled with pride, and so on.
However, its what we do with those thoughts,
and feelings....
shall we tell lies, in order to be praised?
And by doing that,
we are putting men, above our God.
The thing is, Ananias and his wife, could have given whatever amount they wanted from the sale, or given nothing at all,
and there would have been no problem with that....
but...
( it may have been, they had pledged or vowed, to give all of the proceeds of the sale.) In any case they do lie ( both of them). Its the lying that is the issue...why lie?
But tho they were punished by God for lying, it's important to note, that did not mean they were not saved born again believers.
The lesson is that, even as believers, when we sin, we have to know there are consequences...
maybe even death.
Yes, we are still saved,
but look at the cost...
sin is never worth it.
I noticed tho that satan played a part in this. We should never underestimate our enemy....he can slither into the church, just as easily as the world.
This also points out, how love of self ,love of money, and pride can be used by satan ( and we agree to it)
to sin.
we might find ourselves struggling with money trying to control us ( out of fear or greed) and be a god.
I think some people might have trouble with the 'cost' meted out to Ananias and his wife. Someone might think,
well... yes, what they did was wrong, but their lie was not life-threatening...so death??
If this were to be God's judgement on church people today we would be going to a lot of funerals!!
I am thinking that perhaps since this was the beginning of the church, people had to realize a sin has serious consequences...
If left unpunished, then to lie to God in order to make yourself look good, may have been considered 'no big deal',
that if God really didn't care if Ananias and his wife could do it and God seemingly did not care....well anybody could.
God often does let such sins go....for a time anyways.
but... in this case, it was a lesson in what God 'really' thinks and the lesson is still clear to us to this very day....
If God had let the lies go that day without this example, to all believers, just imagine how worse it could have gotten quickly...
and really, in the end, t lies do 'kill' in the end.
It makes me think of how unbelievers point to the fact that tho God had told Adam and Eve they would die, if ,they ate from the tree of knowledge and 'EVIL'....
they did NOT fall down dead in their bodies that very day....
no, they did not physically fall down dead that very day....
but, they did die that day spiritually
and
they did start dying that day physically...
until they were dead.
Only by His mercy did God let them live awhile, but death WAS the result.
so this was an example and a lesson for the believers in that church in its infancy, and even for believers today.
They wanted to be known as: oh so spiritual...by (greed) lying.
By punishing them, it may have kept the Lord from punishing a lot more people, for a time.
Lest anyone think this way a 'story' or a fable....
Notice the detail about the exact time...3 hours when Sapphira, the wife comes in...
maybe to get her pat on the back and praise also?
It's also important that the world know that Christians are held to a 'higher standard'...
( but NOT that they lose their salvation when they sin).
And we need to know...that we cannot fool God....even if nobody had ever known....God would have.
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,397
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Post by fearnot on Nov 25, 2018 19:51:38 GMT -5
Acts 5: 12-16
Many Signs and Wonders Done
I am thinking it could be important to note the signs and wonders were done by the apostles, not the general body of believers (and only for a time, while the church was getting started....which is not to say that God does not still do miracles etc.).
it's kind of interesting that the general public was not eager to join, yet held them in high esteem!! As opposed to today, when many churches try to have 'rock' music, picnics, games with prizes, etc. anything to draw in as many people from the 'world' ,by getting as close to the world, so they will feel comfortable .
Today the church tries to cater to the world and don't really get many true converts, a lot of fair weather, sorts who hang out for awhile. but easy believism doesn't usually make true converts....
whereas this church, sort of repelled and scared people, and yet, grew with many converts added daily. Also all who asked were healed by the apostles, those physically sick, and those demonically oppressed.
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,397
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Post by fearnot on Nov 26, 2018 13:29:46 GMT -5
Acts 5: 17-26
The high priest and the Sadducees were filled with jealousy. I think many people have struggle with this sin, but in one way, it's like thinking God made a mistake....someone is better than you, so you are worthless, but God could use each person, because we are all unique.....however the Sadducees were filled with anger ( even hatred) and envy....they wanted all the praise and glory of the people. They wanted to be rid of the apostles and so they put them in prison.
Again we note the apostles did not resist. Tho we may not or may face prison for our faith, we should try not to be surprised by some strong negative reaction. Actually, I am more surprised when there is not!!
But then an angel sets them free. We cannot count on this to happen, if ever. Still, I am convinced my life was saved once by a similar thing.
Nevertheless, that did not mean they could give up the fight for souls and run and hid and be safe somewhere...instead they were told to go and preach the gospel in the temple ( I worded it with my own words).
When the high priest and his associates sent orders to the prison house for the apostles to be brought to them, the prison guards could not find them, for the angel had set them free.
What God had done left the High priest and his cohorts perplexed, because after all these were professional guards, and they do not lose 12 men!!!
They were sadly perplexed, but not persuaded and/or convicted.
Anyway, someone came and told the High priest and all that the apostles were preaching again!! Sooo the captain and his men, without violence because they were fearful....not of God it seems, but of men (perhaps they feared they would be stoned).
If I must fear anything, I need to 'fear' God and not men!
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Post by Cindy on Nov 27, 2018 11:20:47 GMT -5
Thank you Cindy!! And have a wonderful Thanks-Giving day :-)
I am of course still praying for Bruce and you. Acts4: 13-22
I couldn't help but think that in an evil way, the devil has weaved at that time, and perhaps,
even more so now,
a diabolical trap.
To many people, you are only worthy to be listen to, if, you have a college education, and the more degrees you have, the more you are to be honored and listened to.
However.... often, universities
( or as in Peter and John's day formal rabbinic training)
is mostly spent in learning satan's lies.
Nevertheless, this trap does not stop God!!
Because ,like King David, who said in Psalm 119, that he had "more understanding than all my teachers", being filled with the Holy Spirit, so did Peter and John.
In fact, the learned men who put them on trial, recognize them as having been with Jesus ( and no man has ever spoke as God the Son , nor ever will).
Indeed, I would so love that people would see that in my conversation.
Yet, this is an encouragement for those of us who feel they are not trained enough, or because they don't have a bunch of PHD's, and so therefore, they are not qualified to speak to anyone about Jesus, the Bible etc.
NOT so....
just look at Peter and John...
fisherman, with great extraordinary impact.....
because their source, their power, etc. came from God.
The learned men had another problem....there was a healed man standing there, and thousands upon thousands knew it!!
Soooo they could not deny it.
They definitely do not want this to continue spreading, so they try to impose a gag order....telling (ummm maybe more like a threat?),
Peter and John they can go free, but.....don't tell, especially..... do not speak of Jesus!!!
Basically end your preaching also.
Wow! We are dealing with this in our own country....certainly do not speak of Jesus in the classroom, nor in the work place, nor in government building, nor here or there.....
so maybe we can learn something here about how we should handle such threats ( not that we should disrupt work), but perhaps at lunch,
and is school not a place to deal with ideas...
if children can learn other 'religions', on the basis of studying 'cultures'.....
then Christianity ought to be included, not be the only one excluded.
I think this is the main point for me concerning this issue:
to be a man pleaser and be 'safe" ,
or, to love the Lord with all my heart, mind etc.
the answer is in verse 19
v. 19 ""Whether it is right in the sight of God to give heed to you rather than to God..."
The answer to me is pretty clear....not man, but God.
I am not saying it is always easy tho
( fear is my middle name)....
but it is getting easier. ( as I see how sinful mankind is, and myself)
It is getting less popular ( was it ever?),
certainly less and less safe,
but it has never changed....it is the absolute truth and true love.
And a final point on the miracle, this was not a man who had a temporary loss of being able to walk, like some injury that lasted awhile...no, it had been from birth and had lasted 40 plus years!!
so even tho satan knows that we humans are often ( or maybe even mostly) weak and fearful people,
so does God....
and He can and will equip us, strengthen us, give us His power etc.
Other than that one slip, well said! Acts 4: 23-31
The first thing Peter and John do, having been released, is to go to other believers and tell them exactly what happened.
It seems the problem of potential 'fake' news, is not a new thing!
Nor did they edit out the 'scary' parts.
I just can't resist mentioning, how sad it is, that young folks today in college, are being programmed ( it seems?) to be so weak, unable to handle anything scary....
I just saw yesterday that at some college, professors got a memo, never to use caps because it is so scary to students!!
The kids already have 'safe' rooms, and many places don't allow 'clapping'....it also is too scary, you are just to gently wave your hands.....
and I thought ,I was the worst scared coward in the whole world!!!
Well to love God and put Him first, often means you will be in major scary trouble with men.
Well, what lesson in this is for me or others easily scared?
As the persecution is getting worse, the group of believers pray and praise God, who is infinitely powerful, He is the Creator of everything!!
It is also helpful to see they prayed based mostly on the Word of God. I know I am often guilty of just asking for things ( even good things) in my own or secular words...
not that that is wrong or bad, or that I HAVE to follow some set of rules to pray...
However, I do think, it would be good for me to include waaaay more of God's Word, thank Him more often, and praise Him more, when I pray .....and this passage is one example of that.
In their prayer, they look to God's Word (psalm 2), where persecution is stated and foretold, as the gentiles 'rage' etc. As Jesus experienced this rage, we should not be surprised when it happens to us.
ALL people are responsible for Jesus death on the Cross,
but it was also God's plan.
The believer's point out ( to the Lord in their prayer), the threats,
and then, petition God that they might have boldness ( the opposite of fear).....(basically for courage).
Another good example for me and a prayer I could pray.
Then there was a shaking (earthquake), and they were filled with the Holy Spirit and their petition for boldness was granted!!!
Acts 4: 32-37
it seems like for a short time, they were all believers, and no non-believers were mixed in. As a result of all belonging to the Lord, the did not hang onto 'things' but out of love for each other were willing to give whatever was needed to those in need.
This generosity was not forced ( like in some governments, politics it was not socialism, Marxism, or communism ) but came from hearts and souls of Christian love. the believers didn't claim exclusive rights to their things.
The apostles did not preach about a dead Savior but an alive one.
They cared for and about each other, and brought their possession to the apostles who would then distribute to who had need.
I think it interesting that another way to give, is like Barnabas (which translated means Son of Encouragement) ...by being encouraging.
Since I do not have a lot of 'stuff'....but I can grow more as an encourager.
Acts 5:1-11
Ananias and Sapphira
We go from the generous sharing of believers, now to a not so generous sharing, coupled with the sin of lying, to man, and more so....to God!!!
Barnabas had sold a tract of land generously given to the church and so Ananias and his wife did also.....but with a big difference.
I speculate maybe they wanted to look as good as Barnabas, but, in fact, did not have the same generous spirit as Barnabas.
However, neither Barnabas, nor Ananias and his wife, HAD to sell and give all the money to the church.
This was not some sort of rule being enforced !!
Still, I think at one time or another we have all struggled with wanting to be liked, look good to men, are filled with pride, and so on.
However, its what we do with those thoughts,
and feelings....
shall we tell lies, in order to be praised?
And by doing that,
we are putting men, above our God.
The thing is, Ananias and his wife, could have given whatever amount they wanted from the sale, or given nothing at all,
and there would have been no problem with that....
but...
( it may have been, they had pledged or vowed, to give all of the proceeds of the sale.) In any case they do lie ( both of them). Its the lying that is the issue...why lie?
But tho they were punished by God for lying, it's important to note, that did not mean they were not saved born again believers.
The lesson is that, even as believers, when we sin, we have to know there are consequences...
maybe even death.
Yes, we are still saved,
but look at the cost...
sin is never worth it.
I noticed tho that satan played a part in this. We should never underestimate our enemy....he can slither into the church, just as easily as the world.
This also points out, how love of self ,love of money, and pride can be used by satan ( and we agree to it)
to sin.
we might find ourselves struggling with money trying to control us ( out of fear or greed) and be a god.
I think some people might have trouble with the 'cost' meted out to Ananias and his wife. Someone might think,
well... yes, what they did was wrong, but their lie was not life-threatening...so death??
If this were to be God's judgement on church people today we would be going to a lot of funerals!!
I am thinking that perhaps since this was the beginning of the church, people had to realize a sin has serious consequences...
If left unpunished, then to lie to God in order to make yourself look good, may have been considered 'no big deal',
that if God really didn't care if Ananias and his wife could do it and God seemingly did not care....well anybody could.
God often does let such sins go....for a time anyways.
but... in this case, it was a lesson in what God 'really' thinks and the lesson is still clear to us to this very day....
If God had let the lies go that day without this example, to all believers, just imagine how worse it could have gotten quickly...
and really, in the end, t lies do 'kill' in the end.
It makes me think of how unbelievers point to the fact that tho God had told Adam and Eve they would die, if ,they ate from the tree of knowledge and 'EVIL'....
they did NOT fall down dead in their bodies that very day....
no, they did not physically fall down dead that very day....
but, they did die that day spiritually
and
they did start dying that day physically...
until they were dead.
Only by His mercy did God let them live awhile, but death WAS the result.
so this was an example and a lesson for the believers in that church in its infancy, and even for believers today.
They wanted to be known as: oh so spiritual...by (greed) lying.
By punishing them, it may have kept the Lord from punishing a lot more people, for a time.
Lest anyone think this way a 'story' or a fable....
Notice the detail about the exact time...3 hours when Sapphira, the wife comes in...
maybe to get her pat on the back and praise also?
It's also important that the world know that Christians are held to a 'higher standard'...
( but NOT that they lose their salvation when they sin).
And we need to know...that we cannot fool God....even if nobody had ever known....God would have.
Acts 5: 12-16
Many Signs and Wonders Done
I am thinking it could be important to note the signs and wonders were done by the apostles, not the general body of believers (and only for a time, while the church was getting started....which is not to say that God does not still do miracles etc.).
it's kind of interesting that the general public was not eager to join, yet held them in high esteem!! As opposed to today, when many churches try to have 'rock' music, picnics, games with prizes, etc. anything to draw in as many people from the 'world' ,by getting as close to the world, so they will feel comfortable .
Today the church tries to cater to the world and don't really get many true converts, a lot of fair weather, sorts who hang out for awhile. but easy believism doesn't usually make true converts....
whereas this church, sort of repelled and scared people, and yet, grew with many converts added daily. Also all who asked were healed by the apostles, those physically sick, and those demonically oppressed.
Acts 5: 17-26
The high priest and the Sadducees were filled with jealousy. I think many people have struggle with this sin, but in one way, it's like thinking God made a mistake....someone is better than you, so you are worthless, but God could use each person, because we are all unique.....however the Sadducees were filled with anger ( even hatred) and envy....they wanted all the praise and glory of the people. They wanted to be rid of the apostles and so they put them in prison.
Again we note the apostles did not resist. Tho we may not or may face prison for our faith, we should try not to be surprised by some strong negative reaction. Actually, I am more surprised when there is not!!
But then an angel sets them free. We cannot count on this to happen, if ever. Still, I am convinced my life was saved once by a similar thing.
Nevertheless, that did not mean they could give up the fight for souls and run and hid and be safe somewhere...instead they were told to go and preach the gospel in the temple ( I worded it with my own words).
When the high priest and his associates sent orders to the prison house for the apostles to be brought to them, the prison guards could not find them, for the angel had set them free.
What God had done left the High priest and his cohorts perplexed, because after all these were professional guards, and they do not lose 12 men!!!
They were sadly perplexed, but not persuaded and/or convicted.
Anyway, someone came and told the High priest and all that the apostles were preaching again!! Sooo the captain and his men, without violence because they were fearful....not of God it seems, but of men (perhaps they feared they would be stoned).
If I must fear anything, I need to 'fear' God and not men!
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,397
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Post by fearnot on Nov 27, 2018 13:58:49 GMT -5
Awwww!!! That was truly an compliment and an encouragement when you said: "Gee, you sound like me LOL"
Ummmm not quite....
but working and studying the Bible with you for how many years now? has had an impact on me!!!
and, even I, do think, I have grown....
but I don't really think its possible for me to sound quite like you, because you have such a head start....
in that you read and study the Bible for years and years.... not just an 1/2 hour or even as much as 2 hours a day,
but mostly you did 6 hours or even more, a day!!
Still, I will not belittle what God has done in my life and also what He has done by bringing you into my life.
Do you remember how I even came to FH? I was on RR bemoaning and feeling sorry for myself as a mentally ill, abuse little waif LOL
Anyway, you kindly invited me to FH where we could talk about how badly abused I was in the pain forum.
I recently watched a couple of sermons by Dr. John MacArthur about 'social justice' now taking over in many Christian churches.
He said, its not that people have not been abused, because of race, or sex, or social status etc etc etc.
In fact, he said, almost everyone has.....
I am thinking, even the rich white kid could have had a very hard life....
tho most other people others might look at them,
and think:
oh the 'poor baby...NOT!!!
and yet...
even the rich white kid may have been completely ignored by their jet setting parents, abused by their care takers who hate them because their parents are so wealthy so they take it out on the kids for years etc. so that actually the caretakers who absolutely hate them with a passion are the rich kids only real parents.
and so ,they may have a sense they are worthless, despicable, not worthy of living, because their parents see only them a few times a year,
even then, maybe the parents are rich... but basically physically and emotionally abusive alcoholics, who do not give their children any good moral education,
in fact, or rather, just the opposite....
they teach values like:
smack everyone down who gets in your way, buy people off to get your way, lie and rip people off big time, you have enough money to feed your addictions be it sex, drugs, materialism etc.
On the other hand, many poor actually have at least one parent who loves them, they may have a close loving family, and are taught some godly character, tho the world may treat them like nobodies.
Anyway, back to MacArthur, most ( if not all) people have had trouble, pain, hurts, even abuse, of some sort in their life,
but to promote victim-hood, to stay in the past and rehash over and over your ( maybe justified) grievances...will not help....
wallowing in our pain, and wearing our victim badge with 'pride' does us no good....
we have to forgive because Jesus forgave us and so on.
And you helped me so greatly with just that!
I still on a rare occasion remember some hurt from the past, but you taught me how to take my thoughts captive, and to pray for those who hurt me etc.
And, you have kept me accountable for daily Bible study!!! etc.
So yeah, I have come a long way.....thank you!!!
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,397
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Post by fearnot on Nov 27, 2018 15:22:41 GMT -5
Acts 5:27-32
This could almost be titled: Here we go again!!!
First the apostles preach, get before the high Jewish leaders, get throw in jail, and angel lets them out, they preach again and now are back in front of council!!
Nevertheless, this is another 'opportunity' to witness!!
It's hard to think that way, because so many of us ( or at least I ) tend to think of bad things or hardships etc. as time to wallow in a pity party....
the glass 1/2 empty theory.
However, with God, it may indeed be a glass full....a chance to either be more compassionate to others as a result of your own painful experiences, or,
in cases like this,
a chance to witness.
Someone from the high council said: we gave you strict orders ....
( hummmmmm did they ,so soon ,forget the apostles reply the 1st time?)
The high council use words like:
'this name'
and '
this man's blood'.....
apparently not even willing to say out loud, the name.... Jesus.
They go on to say: "And yet you have filled Jerusalem with your teaching"
If I had been there, I might have thought to myself....
wow! really? Thank you for telling me that,
what a nice compliment...
that was so ,my goal!!
I wonder if they were feeling a bit guilty ( because, in fact, they were guilty, as all men are)
and
on if some level, they were even afraid,
when they mention:
(you) intend to bring this man's blood upon us
Sometimes its important to say a great truth over and over again.
So Peter, restates what he said to them the first time:
"we MUST obey God rather than men!!!"
And this is super important for me to hear again and again!!!
We are to obey our authorities, and be law abiding citizens.....
unless....
they ask us to deny God and/or to sin.
Even IF...
it means we will be killed for making God our priority.
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Post by Cindy on Nov 28, 2018 12:12:07 GMT -5
Awwww!!! That was truly an compliment and an encouragement when you said: "Gee, you sound like me LOL"
Ummmm not quite....
but working and studying the Bible with you for how many years now? has had an impact on me!!!
and, even I, do think, I have grown....
but I don't really think its possible for me to sound quite like you, because you have such a head start....
in that you read and study the Bible for years and years.... not just an 1/2 hour or even as much as 2 hours a day,
but mostly you did 6 hours or even more, a day!!
Still, I will not belittle what God has done in my life and also what He has done by bringing you into my life.
Do you remember how I even came to FH? I was on RR bemoaning and feeling sorry for myself as a mentally ill, abuse little waif LOL
Anyway, you kindly invited me to FH where we could talk about how badly abused I was in the pain forum.
I recently watched a couple of sermons by Dr. John MacArthur about 'social justice' now taking over in many Christian churches.
He said, its not that people have not been abused, because of race, or sex, or social status etc etc etc.
In fact, he said, almost everyone has.....
I am thinking, even the rich white kid could have had a very hard life....
tho most other people others might look at them,
and think:
oh the 'poor baby...NOT!!!
and yet...
even the rich white kid may have been completely ignored by their jet setting parents, abused by their care takers who hate them because their parents are so wealthy so they take it out on the kids for years etc. so that actually the caretakers who absolutely hate them with a passion are the rich kids only real parents.
and so ,they may have a sense they are worthless, despicable, not worthy of living, because their parents see only them a few times a year,
even then, maybe the parents are rich... but basically physically and emotionally abusive alcoholics, who do not give their children any good moral education,
in fact, or rather, just the opposite....
they teach values like:
smack everyone down who gets in your way, buy people off to get your way, lie and rip people off big time, you have enough money to feed your addictions be it sex, drugs, materialism etc.
On the other hand, many poor actually have at least one parent who loves them, they may have a close loving family, and are taught some godly character, tho the world may treat them like nobodies.
Anyway, back to MacArthur, most ( if not all) people have had trouble, pain, hurts, even abuse, of some sort in their life,
but to promote victim-hood, to stay in the past and rehash over and over your ( maybe justified) grievances...will not help....
wallowing in our pain, and wearing our victim badge with 'pride' does us no good....
we have to forgive because Jesus forgave us and so on.
And you helped me so greatly with just that!
I still on a rare occasion remember some hurt from the past, but you taught me how to take my thoughts captive, and to pray for those who hurt me etc.
And, you have kept me accountable for daily Bible study!!! etc.
So yeah, I have come a long way.....thank you!!!  Yes, I remember when we met and you came to FH. You've grown so very much since then, and so have I! Isn't that awesome?   Acts 5:27-32
This could almost be titled: Here we go again!!!
First the apostles preach, get before the high Jewish leaders, get throw in jail, and angel lets them out, they preach again and now are back in front of council!!
Nevertheless, this is another 'opportunity' to witness!!
It's hard to think that way, because so many of us ( or at least I ) tend to think of bad things or hardships etc. as time to wallow in a pity party....
the glass 1/2 empty theory.
However, with God, it may indeed be a glass full....a chance to either be more compassionate to others as a result of your own painful experiences, or,
in cases like this,
a chance to witness.
Someone from the high council said: we gave you strict orders ....
( hummmmmm did they ,so soon ,forget the apostles reply the 1st time?)
The high council use words like:
'this name'
and '
this man's blood'.....
apparently not even willing to say out loud, the name.... Jesus.
They go on to say: "And yet you have filled Jerusalem with your teaching"
If I had been there, I might have thought to myself....
wow! really? Thank you for telling me that,
what a nice compliment...
that was so ,my goal!!
I wonder if they were feeling a bit guilty ( because, in fact, they were guilty, as all men are)
and
on if some level, they were even afraid,
when they mention:
(you) intend to bring this man's blood upon us
Sometimes its important to say a great truth over and over again.
So Peter, restates what he said to them the first time:
"we MUST obey God rather than men!!!"
And this is super important for me to hear again and again!!!
We are to obey our authorities, and be law abiding citizens.....
unless....
they ask us to deny God and/or to sin.
Even IF...
it means we will be killed for making God our priority.
“But a Pharisee named Gamaliel, a teacher of the law, who was honored by all the people, stood up in the Sanhedrin and ordered that the men be put outside for a little while.” (Acts 5:34) Seeing the name Gamaliel, reminded me that he was Paul's teacher and was respected as the highest teacher in Israel, both them and in later generations. Let me share what some books say about him:
Son of Simon and grandson of Hillel (according to later, but doubtful, tradition), Gamaliel was a doctor of the law and a member of the Sanhedrin. Representing the liberal wing of the *PHARISEES, the school of Hillel, as opposed to that of Shammai.
Paul acknowledged him as his teacher (Acts 22:3), and he was held in such high honour that he was designated ‘Rabban’ (‘our teacher’), a higher title than ‘Rabbi’ (‘my teacher’). ““I am a Jew, born in Tarsus of Cilicia, but brought up in this city. Under Gamaliel I was thoroughly trained in the law of our fathers and was just as zealous for God as any of you are today.” (Acts 22:3)
The Mishnah (Soṭa 9. 15) says, ‘Since Rabban Gamaliel the Elder died there has been no more reverence for the Law, and purity and abstinence died out at the same time.’ As we might expect from this reputation among the Jews, there is no evidence, despite early suggestions (e.g. Clementine Recognitions), that he ever became a Christian. New Bible dictionary
In rabbinic literature Gamaliel is identified as Gamaliel I or the Elder, who flourished in the mid-first century. Harper’s Bible dictionary
I was trying to learn more about the schools of Hillel and Shammai and found this about them:
Key to understanding Deuteronomy 24:1–4 is the definition of “something indecent.” It probably did not mean adultery, since that was subject to the penalty of death (Deut. 22:22), or premarital intercourse with another man (Deut. 22:20–21), since that carried the same penalty. The precise meaning of the phrase is unknown and was subject to some debate even during the time of Christ. The conservative rabbinical school of Shammai understood “something indecent” to mean a major sexual offense. The liberal rabbinical school of Hillel taught that it referred to anything displeasing to the husband, including something as trivial as spoiling his food. The apparent purpose of this law was to prevent frivolous divorce and to protect a woman who was divorced by her husband. The passage in no way encourages divorce; instead, it regulates the consequences of divorce. Christian ethics in plain language
Matthew 19:7–9 why did Moses say in the law that a man could give his wife a written notice of divorce and send her away? Given the apparent prevalence of divorce in that day, Jesus’ argument for the permanence of marriage understandably concerned the Pharisees. Their response to Jesus pits Deut 24:1 against Gen 1–2, evidently still with the motive of trapping Jesus (19:3). Their understanding of Deut 24:1 appears to have been similar to the liberal view of the school of Hillel. Rather than the NLT’s “could give,” their response is more lit. “Why did Moses command to … send her away?” and shows that they understood Moses as commanding divorce. Jesus would not accept this view. His citation of Gen 1–2 places the creation narrative in Genesis over the legislation of Deut 24. God’s original purpose for marriage overrides the Mosaic concession for human sin. Cornerstone biblical commentary
The Hillel-Shammai debate was certainly in the minds of the Pharisees when they asked the Lord if a Jew could divorce his wife for any cause (Matt 19:3). The school of Hillel interpreted the words עֶרְוַת־דָּבָר in Deut 24:1 more leniently by disjoining the words and making them read “uncleanness, or anything else.” Naturally this interpretation, like the evangelical Protestant view today, enjoyed more popularity than that advanced by the more strict school of Shammai, which allowed divorce only for some immodesty, shamelessness, lewdness, or adultery. By asking the Lord to take sides on this question, the Pharisees hoped to lessen his popularity with the people, whichever side he took. However, the Lord’s response did not deal with the particulars of Deuteronomy 24 at all, but rather with God’s original intention for marriage and with an action which would result in one or the other party being involved in committing adultery. The Pharisees were preoccupied with establishing grounds for divorce (and doing the same today is similar to Pharisaism); our Lord was concerned about the indissolubility of marriage. Dr. Ryrie's Articles
This shows us more about Paul before he was converted and possibly why God chose him!
At the Feet of Gamaliel.—It was no mean ambition that Saul’s parents had for him to receive his theological education in Jerusalem. That city was the goal of Jews all over the world. Here was concentrated the history of the nation. Every hill and every valley teemed with holy associations. Saul had learned the outlines of that story, and he was coming to his own when he came to the Holy City. He was probably, according to Jewish custom, about thirteen when he came to school in Jerusalem, so that he could speak of his being “brought up” there (Acts 22:3). One cannot help thinking of the brief visit of the boy Jesus to the temple at the age of twelve. Each was full of zest in the problems of his people and his time. Saul probably did not astonish his teachers by the penetration of his questions and his answers in the same measure that Jesus did, but one cannot doubt the keenness of his interest in the new world that he had now entered. ...
This grandson of Hillel was the glory of the law and it meant much for Saul to come under his influence. His school (called the school of Hillel) was more liberal in some fine points than the rival rabbinical theological school of Shammai (contemporary of Hillel). For one thing Gamaliel was willing to read the Greek authors, and his pupil Paul will later show some knowledge of Greek literature. To be sure, Paul says, that he was “instructed according to the strict manner of the law of our fathers” (Acts 22:3), but he explains this later when he remarks: “After the straitest sect of our religion, I lived a Pharisee” (26:5). He does not say that he was brought up in the more rigid of the Pharisaic schools. From the non-Pharisaic view, however, it was strict enough. Robertson, A. T. (1909). Epochs in the life of Paul: A study of development in Paul's career
In reference to the ritual of baptism itself, we find from later Jewish sources that immersion is required for “God fearers” who convert to Judaism. In m. Pesach 8.8 the rabbinic schools of Hillel and Shammai debate the issue of proselyte water purification and the Passover meal. Immersion represents a change in ritual status, ensuring that the cleansed person does not impose uncleanness on others (compare b. Yebam. 46a). The Lexham Bible Dictionary
Edersheim, who wrote in 1896, has a lot about both schools. I'll have to read that!
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,397
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Post by fearnot on Nov 28, 2018 12:41:23 GMT -5
Wow! Thank you for all the info on Paul and Gamaliel. I was a bit surprised to learn that Gamaliel was more 'liberal' tho.
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,397
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Post by fearnot on Nov 28, 2018 14:58:26 GMT -5
Acts 5: 33-42
So, instead of hearing the truth and being converted, the council members decide they should kill the apostles.
It is interesting that God used Gamaliel
( a non-believer in Jesus, and as you pointed out the teacher of Paul)
to basically save the apostles from death....
Most of the men were Sadducees, but he was a Pharisees
( and they usually did not get along)....
yet, in this case, the men were persuaded by his words.
He tells the to be careful!!!
He gives several examples of men who had gathered followers but came to nothing, they failed and/or the leaders died.
He says if this ( the belief in Jesus) is 'just' of men, it will also fail like the others ones he mentioned did,
but.....
if it was of God,
then they would not be able to overthrow it anyway.
Of course, there are many flourishing 'religions' this very day, by men only,
( tho they will ultimately fail)
However, it is true, that God's plans WILL succeed!!
I know by now, I should not be surprised by the violence of those who hate Jesus and his followers,
but truthfully, I still am!
So the men of the council, take Gamaliel's advise,
but they flog the apostles,
and then,
once again... commanded them, not to speak about Jesus.
The super interesting thing to me, is tho the apostles had to be in great pain,
instead of slinking off, and having a pity party...
they...
rejoiced!!!
why???
"That they had been considered worthy to suffer shame for His name"
No matter how we suffer,
if we don't expect it,
we will have a hard time rejoicing
and also
to be considered 'worthy' to suffer...for Jesus sake.
It is still hard for me to wrap my mind around the fact that persecution is a blessing.....IF, it is because of Jesus
( not if it is because of something I have don, that deserves it).
However, I am understanding that persecution is a joy and a blessing,
more than I used to....
which was basically... not at all.
Now I know, at least intellectually, Jesus is worth anything...even terrible physical pain...
I am just not big on pain,
but I 'wan't to be able to suffer and rejoice for Him,
if He should call for me too.
Not only that but to know.... it IS a privilege!!!
And I am thinking, when or if the time ever came, Jesus Himself would then, provide the strength and Joy...at that time.
But what else did the apostles do?
Oh right.....
they went right back teaching and preaching!!!!!
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Post by Cindy on Nov 29, 2018 11:46:06 GMT -5
Wow! Thank you for all the info on Paul and Gamaliel. I was a bit surprised to learn that Gamaliel was more 'liberal' tho. Acts 5: 33-42
So, instead of hearing the truth and being converted, the council members decide they should kill the apostles.
It is interesting that God used Gamaliel
( a non-believer in Jesus, and as you pointed out the teacher of Paul)
to basically save the apostles from death....
Most of the men were Sadducees, but he was a Pharisees
( and they usually did not get along)....
yet, in this case, the men were persuaded by his words.
He tells the to be careful!!!
He gives several examples of men who had gathered followers but came to nothing, they failed and/or the leaders died.
He says if this ( the belief in Jesus) is 'just' of men, it will also fail like the others ones he mentioned did,
but.....
if it was of God,
then they would not be able to overthrow it anyway.
Of course, there are many flourishing 'religions' this very day, by men only,
( tho they will ultimately fail)
However, it is true, that God's plans WILL succeed!!
I know by now, I should not be surprised by the violence of those who hate Jesus and his followers,
but truthfully, I still am!
So the men of the council, take Gamaliel's advise,
but they flog the apostles,
and then,
once again... commanded them, not to speak about Jesus.
The super interesting thing to me, is tho the apostles had to be in great pain,
instead of slinking off, and having a pity party...
they...
rejoiced!!!
why???
"That they had been considered worthy to suffer shame for His name"
No matter how we suffer,
if we don't expect it,
we will have a hard time rejoicing
and also
to be considered 'worthy' to suffer...for Jesus sake.
It is still hard for me to wrap my mind around the fact that persecution is a blessing.....IF, it is because of Jesus
( not if it is because of something I have don, that deserves it).
However, I am understanding that persecution is a joy and a blessing,
more than I used to....
which was basically... not at all.
Now I know, at least intellectually, Jesus is worth anything...even terrible physical pain...
I am just not big on pain,
but I 'wan't to be able to suffer and rejoice for Him,
if He should call for me too.
Not only that but to know.... it IS a privilege!!!
And I am thinking, when or if the time ever came, Jesus Himself would then, provide the strength and Joy...at that time.
But what else did the apostles do?
Oh right.....
they went right back teaching and preaching!!!!!
Guess what? There's another Imperishable Beauty lesson! I thought it was done, but it's not, lol. I went ahead and posted it for you. Not sure how you want to deal with it, but I'll leave it up to you.....
fresh-hope.com/thread/4401/imperishable-beauty-study-biblical-womanhood?page=5&scrollTo=22813
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,397
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Post by fearnot on Nov 29, 2018 12:38:13 GMT -5
Ok let's do it and then come back to Acts?
It is a bit harder for me, cuz, I keep misreading, or not answering every question etc.
but even so it is good for me.
sooooooo :-)
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Post by Cindy on Nov 30, 2018 9:45:22 GMT -5
Ok let's do it and then come back to Acts?
It is a bit harder for me, cuz, I keep misreading, or not answering every question etc.
but even so it is good for me.
sooooooo :-) |
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,397
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Post by fearnot on Jan 8, 2019 14:11:06 GMT -5
I am guessing she may post the new study soon, but today I will go back to acts :-)
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,397
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Post by fearnot on Jan 8, 2019 14:55:15 GMT -5
Acts 6:1-7
There was a complaint because widows were being neglected ( maybe in part because the church was growing so rapidly).
In any case, the apostles said they needed to continue preaching the Word and prayer
( because that was what they were called to do, not because serving was a 'lower' service),
So the solution was to pick 7 believers men with good character.
Of the 7 chosen, was Phillip ( 1st missionary) and Stephen (1st martyr).
Then they were prayed over.
And the church continued to grow.
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Yes, I remember when we met and you came to FH. You've grown so very much since then, and so have I! Isn't that awesome? 
!!
