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Post by Cindy on Jun 19, 2024 10:34:44 GMT -5
Eva requested we do a study about the things we're having to deal with today. That seemed like a very good idea to me as well. Everyone is welcome to join us here. Hopefully we'll be able to start this thread tomorrow. I'm just getting it ready for us now.
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383 
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Post by fearnot on Jun 19, 2024 17:57:44 GMT -5
I will check back tomorrow :)
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Post by Cindy on Jun 20, 2024 10:30:44 GMT -5
Let's start with these scriptures since they tell us exactly what kind of people we're dealing with today: “But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God— having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with them.” (2 Timothy 3:1–5) This scripture is like a list of characteristics that will get worse and worse as time goes on until finally it will be so bad that Jesus takes His church out of the world and then starts His judgment against the sins of the unsaved.
The very first characteristic is that the unsaved will be lovers of themselves. That's what the world calls self esteem. God says that instead of self esteem we're to have God esteem. We're to realize that we really aren't all that great, but that God IS great. Starting in Genesis and going through every single book of the Bible right on to Revelation, the Bible teaches us that we are to give up living for self and instead live for God. The Bible views self love as sin and as something Jesus came to save us from. Yes, Jesus literally came to save us from ourselves! Sadly this was well known by almost everyone many generations ago. That's why Satan got men to start "psychology" and everything that goes along with it. Secular therapists, school teachers, and many parents teach their children to be proud of themselves and that they can do anything they want to. Instead, the Bible says we're to realize just how evil we really are. The world says to love yourself, put yourself first, etc, but God tells us the opposite. God says to love Him above all, including our self, and then to love others, and to put our self last.
“The LORD smelled the pleasing aroma and said in his heart: “Never again will I curse the ground because of man, even though every inclination of his heart is evil from childhood. And never again will I destroy all living creatures, as I have done.” (Genesis 8:21)
“The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure. Who can understand it?” (Jeremiah 17:9)
“This is the evil in everything that happens under the sun: The same destiny overtakes all. The hearts of men, moreover, are full of evil and there is madness in their hearts while they live, and afterward they join the dead.” (Ecclesiastes 9:3)
“You may say to yourself, “My power and the strength of my hands have produced this wealth for me.” But remember the LORD your God, for it is he who gives you the ability to produce wealth, and so confirms his covenant, which he swore to your forefathers, as it is today.” (Deuteronomy 8:17–18)
“He who trusts in himself is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom is kept safe.” (Proverbs 28:26)
“And he died for all, that those who live should no longer live for themselves but for him who died for them and was raised again.” (2 Corinthians 5:15)
“Jesus replied: “ ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”” (Matthew 22:37–40) When Jesus said to love others as ourselves, He wasn't giving us a thumbs up to self love, He was saying that the sinful way we love our self, is how we should love others instead of our self.
“Then Jesus said to his disciples, “If anyone would come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross and follow me.” (Matthew 16:24)
“Not that we are competent in ourselves to claim anything for ourselves, but our competence comes from God.” (2 Corinthians 3:5)
“Nobody should seek his own good, but the good of others.” (1 Corinthians 10:24)
“For where you have envy and selfish ambition, there you find disorder and every evil practice.” (James 3:16) Renowned eighteenth–century theologian Jonathan Edwards said the following about the effect of the Fall on man: "Sin, like some powerful astringent, contracted his soul to the very small dimensions of selfishness; and God was forsaken, and fellow–creatures forsaken, and man retired within himself, and became totally governed by narrow and selfish principles and feelings. Self–love became absolute master of his soul, and the more noble and spiritual principles of his being took wings and flew away." Edwards’s analysis certainly agrees with what James is saying: man is self–centered (cf. James 3:14, 16). Where self–centeredness exists, there will be negative results. MacArthur Look at Genesis when Eve at the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. The sin wasn't just eating the fruit, she ate it because of a love of self over any love of God. That's what Adam did as well when he chose Eve over God. He put himself and his desires over the commands and over God's love of Him.
Sin inverts love for God, which in turn becomes idolatry, and inverts love for neighbor, which becomes exploitation of others. Instead of worshiping God, our inclination is to worship anything else but God. Idolatry is not the ceasing of worship. Rather, it is misdirected worship, and at the core of idolatry is self-worship.
We can see in our society how this love for self has grown and love for God and other people has continued to go from 2nd place to the very bottom of people's lists. Love for self causes things like divorce, child abuse, child neglect, sex trafficking, pornography, homosexuality, slavery, rape, greed, robbery, shoplifting, stealing, anger, brawling, protesting, hate, bullying, kidnapping, perverts, liars, slander, idolatry and so on.
For more information about this, there are a number of very good articles about this in the Psychology forum. Here are a couple of them for anyone interested:
The Biblical View of Self-Image
How should a Christian view self-esteem? |
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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Post by fearnot on Jun 20, 2024 13:27:21 GMT -5
Thank you Cindy!!!
We are seeing all of the things the Bible said,
in fact, getting worse and worse.
Being proud of yourself,
is one of the many new basic principals,
being taught in school!
Another often repeated mantra, is:
You can be anything you want to be!
Well NO you cannot be anything you want to be!
But many absurd things
are being brainwashed in children in schools today...
So going along with:
You can be anything you want...
If you are a girl, you can be a boy if you want
and if you are a boy, you can be a girl if you want!
But what is also happening is this boastful pride,
also goes along with violence
and more and more teachers are being attacked in schools.
Just try taking away one of the kid's cell phones for an hour!
Did I mention it is now considered okay,
to copy your classmate's answers during a test?
So cheating is now okay in school.
Schools today are teaching:
Woe to those who call
evil good, and good evil;
Who substitute
darkness for light
and light for darkness;
Who substitute
bitter for sweet
and sweet for bitter!
Isaiah 5:20
And the adults it produces
Are we surprised they prize partying?
Without God in their lives, they live like this:
party hearty:
Instead, there is gaiety and gladness,
Killing of cattle and slaughtering of sheep,
Eating of meat
and drinking of wine:
“Let us eat and drink,
for tomorrow we may die.”
Isaiah 22:13
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Post by evafromgreece on Jun 21, 2024 0:30:12 GMT -5
Hello!
God led you in some great verses! Thank you for this post.
Basically, since secular psychology was brought up. Psychologist tend to say that our actions dont really have consequences , and we are not to be accountable of our actions, but just to accept that “we are just humans” and accept ourselves. Any other approach is considered a thing of the past, since we are in 2024… We need to be alerted , it’s easy to be mislead.
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Post by Cindy on Jun 21, 2024 9:19:35 GMT -5
Yes, I agree with both of you! Please feel free to continue to talk about each scripture or portion of scripture, after I have, that way we will have a very good understanding of what it's all about. So let's go on to the next one: “But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God— having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with them.” (2 Timothy 3:1–5) Lovers of money... so what's so bad about that? Jesus tells us that if we put making money or saving money as the most important thing in our life, we will wind up in Hell, for we cannot serve two masters. ““No one can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and Money.” (Matthew 6:24) If money and the things it will buy us is what we treasure most, then again, we will wind up in Hell. Jesus tells us not to store up treasures here on earth, but instead to store up treasure for ourselves in heaven. (Matthew 6:19–21) How do we do that though? We can't exactly deposit money in a bank in Heaven! No, but we can make a difference is the lives of other people with our money. We can give money to those who need it. (note that I said "give" not "loan"). When we see someone in need or learn of someone in need, we can do whatever we can to help meet that need. We should not hold on tightly to our belongings or our money in this life. If someone else needs something we have, give it to them. That's what Jesus tells us to do. That way we're storing up treasure in Heaven. God gives us money so we can survive in this life, but also so we can help other people survive. “If anyone has material possessions and sees his brother in need but has no pity on him, how can the love of God be in him? Dear children, let us not love with words or tongue but with actions and in truth.” (1 John 3:17–18) “He who has been stealing must steal no longer, but must work, doing something useful with his own hands, that he may have something to share with those in need.” (Ephesians 4:28) “Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back. Do to others as you would have them do to you.” (Luke 6:30–31) We have to decide what we have more faith in, God or the money He gives us the ability to earn. We are servants of Christ and therefore are stewards of all He gives us in this life. He expects us to make wise decisions and not waste the things He gives us.
Having established what God wants us to do, we can now look and see why God hates it when the unsaved love money. They use money to make more money and it doesn't bother them in the least if they use dishonest means to get more money. They might even be slightly dishonest, like getting a job as a telemarketer for some company that lies to people to get their money. Sadly when they see a family member in need, they say they can't help, and if they can't help family, they certainly can't help anyone else! That's the opposite of the way Jesus wants us to be. They see beautiful homes and think they have to have one (or more) like it, only better of course. When they finally get one, they decide that's not enough, that they need a couple more like it in order to prove how much more wealth they have than others. Basically, living for money proves that they not only love money but they also love themselves over everyone and everything else. That's the real reason they won't help others and why they're spending every minute trying to make more money.
They also use their money to "have fun". Or should I say they waste it? They use their money to gamble in a number of ways, to buy booze and party food, and enormous amounts to decorate for their party. They hire people to serve the booze and food, but do they pay them decent wages? Not usually. They look down on lowly servants and aren't interested in even knowing their names much less knowing if they might need help in some way. About them God says: “He boasts of the cravings of his heart; he blesses the greedy and reviles the LORD.” (Psalm 10:3) Jesus warns us though: “Then he said to them, “Watch out! Be on your guard against all kinds of greed; a man’s life does not consist in the abundance of his possessions.”” (Luke 12:15) One of the many reasons people want lots of money is because they think their money will give them a good and happy life. They soon find out it doesn't work that way. But they're so sure it will, they just think they just need more and more and then they'll be happy.
God's ways are always the opposite of the world's ways. God wants us to give, not keep. The more we give, the more we will get. The world tells us to get and keep getting. It also tells us to spend money we don't have yet. (credit). The world says to take any short cuts we can to get what we want. Those short cuts tend to be dishonest. The world is constantly admonishing us to get the newest, the best, the better, the improved; it's playing to our greed, and the unsaved today fall for it.
We just need to remember what God has for us in Heaven is so amazing that we can't even begin to comprehend it in this life. So now when I see a beautiful home, instead of wishing I could have one like it, I think that it's really just a shack in comparison to what the Lord has prepared for me! I think that same thing about anything I see that I used to want, and now I don't want them anymore.
“One man gives freely, yet gains even more; another withholds unduly, but comes to poverty. A generous man will prosper; he who refreshes others will himself be refreshed. People curse the man who hoards grain, but blessing crowns him who is willing to sell. He who seeks good finds goodwill, but evil comes to him who searches for it. Whoever trusts in his riches will fall, but the righteous will thrive like a green leaf.” (Proverbs 11:24–28)
I'm sure you guys can do a better job on this one. I'm afraid I was half asleep as I was up most of last night.
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anna
Trials
Posts: 1,995
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Post by anna on Jun 21, 2024 9:43:58 GMT -5
When I lived in St Augustine where people would walk along the water front and talk to others, there was this one man I remember because of what he said which was about his girlfriend who he had decided to break up with and he said the reason why was because she was a psychologist and she herself needed a psychologist after listening to people's problems.I know that now days psychologist say that actions don't really have consequences, I don't know how many years now that they have had this attitude.
Psalms 9:8-10 says, He shall judge the world in righteousness, And He shall administer judgment for the peoples in uprightness. The LORD also will be a refuge for the oppressed, A refuge in times of trouble. And those who know Your name will put their trust in You; For You, LORD, have not forsaken those who seek You.
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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Post by fearnot on Jun 21, 2024 10:57:10 GMT -5
Some people think, if they have enough money,
it will buy them respect,
and
people will 'love' them,
and they will be admired, etc.
But they are deceived...
Yes, they may 'accumulate' a lot of people,
who wish to use them for things/gifts,
material items, food, entertainment etc. etc.
But money does not 'really' buy respect or love...
it is a bait and switch con...
of the devil:
To your face people may bow and flatter you,
but in their hearts and behind your back,
they may think you are a fool, an idiot, etc.
They are using you...
they almost certainly do not 'love' you,
or respect you.
You cannot buy godly character!
The leech has two daughters,
“Give,” “Give.”...
Proverbs 30:15
I was thinking about leeches,
they bite and feed off your blood,
but one bite is not enough,
they will always need 'more'..
Being bitten by greed,
you are never satisfied.
a big house and fancy car, etc.
only cries, for a mansion and a fleet of cars,
then a castle and a fleet of private jets,
and then several castles and an island,
and on and on it goes.
And how do some gain wealth to boost their self-image?
One way, ( out of many hurtful ways)
is like Cindy said,
when you throw a lavish party,
you disrespect the help, and pay them very poorly!
Behold, the wages of the laborers who mowed your fields,
which you kept back by fraud,
are crying out against you,
and the cries of the harvesters
have reached the ears of the Lord of hosts.
James 5:4
What does God say about robbing the poor
Do not rob the poor, because he is poor,
or crush the afflicted at the gate,
for the Lord will plead their cause
and rob of life those who rob them.
Proverbs 22:22-23
also Jesus said:
And he said to them,
“Take care, and be on your guard against all covetousness,
for one's life does not consist
in the abundance of his possessions.”
Luke 12:15
Plus
And He ( Jesus) said to His disciples,
“For this reason I say to you, do not worry about your life,
as to what you will eat; nor for your body,
as to what you will put on.
For life is more than food,
and the body more than clothing.
Luke 12:22,23
and
29 And do not seek what you will eat
and what you will drink,
and do not keep worrying.
30 For all these things the nations of the world eagerly seek;
but your Father knows that you need these things.
31 But seek His kingdom,
and these things will be added to you.
Luke 12:29-31
No matter how magnificent your places are
in time, they will rot...
I loved what Cindy said concerning having a spectacular house
or the greatest castle,
they are a run down shack,
compared to God's Heaven and eternity.
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anna
Trials
Posts: 1,995
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Post by anna on Jun 22, 2024 10:42:04 GMT -5
Eva, Cindy wrote this in chat.
Please tell Eva that I'll have to do more on her Bible Study tomorrow. I meant to do it today, but overslept....
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Post by evafromgreece on Jun 23, 2024 1:49:21 GMT -5
Eva, Cindy wrote this in chat.
Please tell Eva that I'll have to do more on her Bible Study tomorrow. I meant to do it today, but overslept....
ok no worries |
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Post by evafromgreece on Jun 23, 2024 2:09:37 GMT -5
To be honest , I was recently thinking about the love of people about money. Was trying to understand and it does not make much sense. I was listening to a podcast on how celebrities in Greece become members of the EU parliament , because of the monthly salary a member of the EU parliament is earning , that is more than the prime minister himself, its around 25,000 euros per month, without counting the extra benefits, such us expenses for travelling, bills, cost of having an office and employees and more. And I was thinking that this amount of money per month is useless for an average person. I am not sure if this amount of money per month can be spent somehow. I dont remember myself being jealous of someone's money. Maybe when I was a teenager when I was brainwashed and thinking that possessions make you fit in and to be accepted and happy. But honestly, now it just does not make any sense , I am struggling on understanding why money is so important. And lets say I could have more, I would like to up to a point that I would cover my needs more easily, or lets say also to be able to travel to get to know more places and educate myself learning more history and the way of life of different people, but other than that I really cannot understand. I cannot understand people , they cannot understand me and thats more or less how it goes  |
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Post by Cindy on Jun 23, 2024 8:31:31 GMT -5
Eva, the main reason we don't love money is because we are saved and the Lord dwells within us. As long as we study our Bible daily, the Lord prevents us from getting involved in many different sins. It's our choice though. For example, if you saw something you really, really wanted and allowed your thoughts to dwell on that thing until you coveted it, then you would open yourself to the sin of loving money as it could buy you what you wanted so badly. It's the same way with any other sin. God uses His Word to grow our faith, and prevent a lot of sin. this scripture helps explain it: “His divine power has given us everything we need for life and godliness through our knowledge of Him who called us by his own glory and goodness. Through these He has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature and escape the corruption in the world caused by evil desires.” (2 Peter 1:3–4) He give us what we need to keep away from sin through our knowledge of Christ, which we gain as we study His Word, because Jesus is the Word. (John 1:1-4)
Lets look at the next two sins mentioned in the list: “People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy,” (2 Timothy 3:2)
One of the first scriptures that brought to my mind was this one: “Why should I fear when evil days come, when wicked deceivers surround me— those who trust in their wealth and boast of their great riches?” (Psalm 49:5–6) See how boasting is connected to the love of money? Jude 16 shows us it's also connected to the love of self. They are not only proud of themselves, Isaiah 3:9 says they are proud of their sins too. Boasting and being proud goes right back to what the world is literally teaching children to do - to love themselves, to be proud of themselves. Pride and boasting, and love of self is the opposite of the way Jesus wants us to live. He wants us to love others and tells us what that love should look like in 1 Corinthians 13:4–7. “Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, ... .” He also showed us what that kind of love looks like by His life. Another interesting connection with pride is violence. It seems that it's the proud people who are also violent, and we're certainly seeing a lot of that today too!
Everything we have is given to us by God. Even though we think we "earn" our money, the Lord gave us the ability to do that. He gives us intelligence, and all kinds of different talents we can develop and use. We don't have anything at all that was not given to us by God, therefore we have nothing we can truly boast about or be proud about. Unless we want to be proud of our sin nature and sins. That's the only thing that we did for ourselves and the only thing that God did not give us. That's why we see people today literally boasting about their sins!
I'm sure Barbara and others can say more about this, so I'll leave this topic for them to say more on.
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anna
Trials
Posts: 1,995
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Post by anna on Jun 23, 2024 10:36:48 GMT -5
I think money is important to many people because the people are single minded concentrated on only one aim or purpose.
Right now there are thieves in New York city causing the stores to close down and go out of business because enough of them are single minded to steal, in Harlem Target just closed down and now people are concerned that Costco might end up closing down, though Costco is set up better and more of a challenge to thieves, I think people are worried and wait to see...
It seems to me that I see a change in that when I was younger truth was still seen as good, more of a path of being honorable and more of a path to redemption, now I don't see society that way anymore, I don't know if that is true or not, maybe it is just me getting older.
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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Post by fearnot on Jun 24, 2024 9:25:58 GMT -5
Boastful and proud....
Boy if those two are not the cornerstone of today!!!!
We are having a whole MONTH devoted to
PRIDE!!!!
The fear of the Lord is hatred of evil.
Pride and arrogance
and the way of evil and perverted speech
I hate.
Proverbs 8:13
so many verses so little time haha
For all that is in the world—the desires of the flesh
and the desires of the eyes
and pride of life—
is not from the Father but is from the world.
1 John 2:16
So mainly those into pride are those who do not believe in God
In the pride of his face
the wicked does not seek him;
all his thoughts are,
“There is no God.”
Psalm 10:4
Certainly some people have some amazing skills...
and these are 'gifts' from God,
People ought to be grateful, thanking God,
and giving Him the credit...
Not taking credit for themselves.
But today, the biggest emphasis
in being proud of one's sins!!!
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Post by evafromgreece on Jun 24, 2024 14:37:19 GMT -5
It’s interesting , because I have not thought about this this way before. Pride is a sin , but I have never considered that people are proud about their sins. And that makes me see this in a different perspective
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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Post by fearnot on Jun 28, 2024 10:01:29 GMT -5
It really seems to me that Satan has changed human beliefs,
so that they not only affirm the 'direct opposite',
of what God calls
good and evil
but they now 'demand'
everyone else 'must' also!!!
What was Satan's downfall?
His 'pride':
"Woe unto them that call evil good,
and good evil;
that put darkness for light,
and light for darkness;
that put bitter for sweet,
and sweet for bitter!"
Isaiah 5:20
I don't know about Greece,
but here in the US
we are supposed to be celebrating
a whole month of PRIDE!!!
Pride in:
The exact opposite of what God has decreed and demanded...
out of love....
because sin...
( all sins)
is/are death.
We are to affirm and cheer people
on their way to Hell.
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Post by Cindy on Jun 28, 2024 10:23:40 GMT -5
I'm so sorry! I haven't had time to think lately. My son's house is getting closer to being sold so the lawyers and the real estate broker are calling. In fact, I have to go see the lawyer today to sign yet more papers. Plus I'm having some pretty bad health problems and Bruce has been having constant migraines daily, which isn't helping any either. So that's why I haven't been able to continue this lately. But I'll keep trying!
The next ones on the list are "abusive and disobedient to parents". Abusive is also translated at blasphemers in other versions. Both are accurate translations of the word, but I think in this case it would have been better if they had translated it as "using abusive language". We see this all the time now. It always shocks me when I hear the younger generation talking about other people, because they do in fact often say abusive things about them. People often associate blaspheming with something we do toward God, which is true, but it can also be something we do toward others. BLASPHEMY is the transliteration of a Greek word meaning literally “to speak harm.” Here is an example of someone using blasphemy against another person, in this case Moses: “Then they secretly persuaded some men to say, “We have heard Stephen speak words of blasphemy against Moses and against God.”” (Acts 6:11) In this next verse, the word that is translated "slander" or "evil speaking" is actually the word for blasphemy: “Get rid of all bitterness, rage and anger, brawling and slander, along with every form of malice.” (Ephesians 4:31) this shows it can be against anyone or anything. I'm sure you can all share all kinds of examples of people speaking evil about others. I know that people have spoken evil about me any number of times in the last few years. We see it daily in the news about everyone now too. We also see our God and King blasphemed regularly. That really hurts! What else to we see or hear about being blasphemed, or spoken evil about? God's Word is one I've heard of, and another big one we hear constantly now is the Jews. Any time anyone speaks evil about another person it angers our God, even if the words are true. That's something most people don't realize, because I've often heard people defend their harsh words by saying, "well, it's true!" Speaking about Leviticus 19:16-17 Spurgeon says: "Whether the report be true or false, we are by this precept of God’s Word forbidden to spread it. The reputations of the Lord’s people should be very precious in our sight, and we should count it shame to help the devil to dishonour the Church and the name of the Lord. We may ourselves one of these dark days need forbearance and silence from our brethren, let us render it cheerfully to those who require it now. Be this our family rule, and our personal bond—SPEAK EVIL OF NO MAN."
Yet now days it seems that people can't wait to slander another.
Next on the list is being disobedient to parents. Since I've been studying Genesis again lately, I'm reminded of Noah's son Ham who at the least disrespected his father, or else sinned against him some way. What he did isn't as important as the realization that this shows that God had taught mankind to obey and respect their parents from the very beginning. In speaking of the end times Micah also tells us: “For a son dishonors his father, a daughter rises up against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law— a man’s enemies are the members of his own household.” (Micah 7:6) Proverbs says: ““There are those who curse their fathers and do not bless their mothers; those who are pure in their own eyes and yet are not cleansed of their filth;” (Proverbs 30:11–12) God didn't make many things a capital offense, but this was one of them! ““Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death.” (Exodus 21:17) The NET Bible translates it as anyone who treats their mother or father disgracefully. The NLT translates it as anyone who dishonors their father or mother. We see this constantly today in all kinds of ways. I'll have to let you guys give examples of this if you'd like to though, as I've got to get ready to go. We should remember however that how a child treats their parents is so important to God that He made it a capital offense. By the way, one other thing we should remember is that God is not just speaking about young children. This applies to us no matter how old we are!
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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Post by fearnot on Jun 28, 2024 11:49:36 GMT -5
Boy I totally agree!!!
It 'seems' like,
in some ways,
the internet, has allowed people to take off the veil,
and show the true depravity of the human sin nature.
Since we are not standing in front of a person,
when typing on the internet, and not
yelling all manner of hurtful and abusive words,
to someone's face,
the internet has made it a ton 'easier' to say anything hurtful.
Yes, people do ( and did in the past)
yell at each other face to face,
but it did deter a lot of people.
In fact, it seems if you are to be:
'cool' or 'bad'
( bad is now considered 'good')
you are almost 'required'
to swear and hurl abusive language.
In fact, in movies, rap songs, etc.
they would almost never sell,
if there were a lack of shocking verbal abuse.
But more than that,
it is now the norm
to use words that at one time
would never be said:
in 'polite' company
in front of women
in front of children
etc.
But none of that holds for today,
everybody is treated to mean, abusive, foul words...
There is now often a serious lack of
compassionate, loving, gentle, kind, words!
They are hardly ever spoken!
I remember hearing about
the totally 'shocking' word that
Clark Gable used in the movie:
'Gone with the Wind:
He actually said the word:
Damn!
Up to that point,
a 'gentleman'
( what is that???)
would never, ever, say that word,
in front of a lady!!!
But it was more than just 'shocking'...
it really was considered by many people
who saw and loved the movie:
as 'freeing'
as FINALLY...
a freedom to
express oneself!!
( note the word 'self'
you...yourself,
now. longer is caring about the other person,
who has to hear
your freedom to use vile words!
Today we find it hard to believe
that there was such a to-do over one word!
But really,
what did Satan also do,
with the 'freeing'
in that movie with that word:
Damn?
Well, the real Biblical meaning of being:
'damned'
( as in going to Hell forever)
was lost...
And was turned into:
I DON"T CARE!!!!
Satan has taken every one of God's
compassionate, loving commands, systems, provisions etc.
and turned them on their heads.
So, for example,
the family was to be a 'safe' place.
Now it has become,
or is in the process of becoming:
that children are to belong to the community,
the government,
the schools,etc.
And children often no longer respect their parents...
even IF they have very good parents.
Oh, there are still some people,and/or children,
who do not fit this mold,
but it has become the norm, in many societies...
to reach for the lowest and crude level as possible....
whatever is anti-God is cool.
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Post by Cindy on Jun 29, 2024 11:10:38 GMT -5
That's so true Barbara! My father was an old time gentleman. He never used any bad language in front of a woman or child and wouldn't allow anyone else to do so either. He and my mom raised me to be a lady and ladies don't use that kind of language. Apparently we don't have many ladies in the world today.
Let's look at the last two descriptions in verse two today: “People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy,” (2 Timothy 3:2) Ungrateful....that's a BIG one and we see it constantly today and I'm afraid that we're often guilty of it ourselves at times. At least I am. That's why I have a sign in my kitchen that says "An attitude of gratitude makes what we have enough". I've repeated that to myself a lot!!! The world teaches us to be unsatisfied with what we have. We buy a new phone and shortly afterward we start seeing commercials for the "new improved version" and of course we want it. If we get that one, again we'll see commercials for one that's "even better" or "the best!" and we want that one instead. No matter what we buy, there will always be something that the world will tell us is new, improved, or better than what we got and try and make us desire it. That's what Satan did to Eve too. Let me share how Weirsbe explains it: He's speaking about these scriptures: “Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For everything in the world—the cravings of sinful man, the lust of his eyes and the boasting of what he has and does—comes not from the Father but from the world.” (1 John 2:15–16) John points out that the world system uses three devices to trap Christians: the lust (desire) of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life (1 John 2:16). These same devices trapped Eve back in the Garden: “And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food [the lust of the flesh], and that it was pleasant to the eyes [the lust of the eyes], and a tree to be desired to make one wise [the pride of life], she took of the fruit” (Gen. 3:6).
Looking at those three ways Satan operates to make us want more of the world, we can see that these are all part of loving yourself, loving money, and being proud and some of the other characteristics as well. Satan wants us to be dissatisfied with our jobs, with our relationships, (especially with our marriages!) with our children, with our homes, vehicles, and all our belongings. If we're dissatisfied, wanting more, wanting better, newer, etc. than we can know that we've fallen for Satan's program. Realizing that is a good thing though! Because then we can confess our sin and repent of it, knowing the Lord will forgive us and help us to be satisfied with what He has blessed us with, and knowing that if we need something, He will be our provision for it. After we've confessed and repented, then we can start taking those ungrateful thoughts captive and replace them with thanksgiving for what we have.
I want to share other ways the word for "unholy" is also translated as: profane, irreligious, impious, and wicked. When the Bible uses the term holy it's speaking of something or someone that's been separated from the world (which is evil) to God who is pure and untouched by evil. Everyone who is saved has been made "holy". We have been separated out of the world and now belong to our God. He calls us to conform to His Word. “Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will.” (Romans 12:2) So we start off being unholy, are separated out of the world to a Holy, Holy, Holy God, and we are becoming Holy as He is. (see also Ephesians 1:4; Ephesians 4:22–24, Colossians 3:12) That makes sense as He dwells within us and because He is now our Father and children tend to become more and more like their parents. Therefore it stands to reason that the rest of the world would be "unholy" for they are becoming more and more like their parent, Satan. “You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.” (John 8:44)
Let's look at what becoming more unholy looks like. Remember the other ways it can be translated: profane, irreligious, impious, and wicked. That's what we're seeing today and people are becoming more profane, more irreligious, more impious, and more wicked daily! You see, it's very easy to become more unholy, but it takes work to become more holy. They are becoming more like Satan. He lies, he's ungrateful. How could he want "more" when he was the highest angel and the most beautiful one, who was allowed to be the closest to God! But instead of being grateful for how God created him, he wanted more. He wanted to be god himself! He's a murderer. He doesn't just literally kill people, he also likes to kill our dreams, our plans, our marriages, our relationships, etc. While everything he says is a lie, we don't realize it because he covers his lies up with just enough truth to get our attention. (Like he did with Eve). He is full of hate. “Anyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life in him.” (1 John 3:15) We see a LOT of hate in the world today, that's for sure! He's the opposite of all that God is. God is good, Satan is evil. God is love, Satan is hate. God is order, Satan is disorder, chaos. God is joy, Satan is depression. God is peace, Satan is anxiety, fear. And so on.
I know you guys can come up with even more ways of showing the things that Satan represents. it's good to know what they are so we can watch for them in our lives (like being ungrateful) and then make our thoughts obedient to Christ.
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anna
Trials
Posts: 1,995
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Post by anna on Jun 29, 2024 18:29:10 GMT -5
Having read psalm 62. I think of David son Absalom as being abusive and disobedient to parents, the heartbreak of David when his son led a rebellion against him, he walked up Mount Olivet and wept as he went up, he had his head covered and he was barefoot. Absalom marching into Jerusalem, it was choose Absalom or choose David. As David fled from the city barefoot and weeping there stood Shimei a Benjamite still loyal to the former king Saul, from a heart of bitter hatred for David, he threw stones and cursed as David fled. I heard it said today we are not what we experience in this life, like David going through this experience yet he sings a song of salvation. Psalm 62:1 Psalm 62:5, well all of Psalm 62.
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Post by Cindy on Jun 30, 2024 10:59:34 GMT -5
Yes, that story always reminds me of the love of a parent for their child, even though the child has chosen to go the wrong way. And I love the part of the story where the guy curses David, because David's response to that taught me so much!!! it showed me that God is really in control of quite literally everything. That seems to be something that David and the people of his time understood much better than we do. We tend to think we're the ones in control. Even after we learn that God is, we still like to think that at least some things are in our control. This is one of the things that I had to keep reminding myself of when people were stealing from my son and after he died, from me. The other interesting thing this shows too is that when something we consider bad happens (like being cursed) it doesn't mean that God is mad at us or that we've done something wrong. Thanks for reminding me of all that Marlene! For anyone not familiar with the story, let me share the part where David is cursed. (keep in mind that he is the King and that cursing the king is treason).
“Then Abishai son of Zeruiah said to the king, “Why should this dead dog curse my lord the king? Let me go over and cut off his head.” But the king said, “What do you and I have in common, you sons of Zeruiah? If he is cursing because the LORD said to him, ‘Curse David,’ who can ask, ‘Why do you do this?’ ” David then said to Abishai and all his officials, “My son, who is of my own flesh, is trying to take my life. How much more, then, this Benjamite! Leave him alone; let him curse, for the LORD has told him to. It may be that the LORD will see my distress and repay me with good for the cursing I am receiving today.”” (2 Samuel 16:9–12)
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Post by evafromgreece on Jul 1, 2024 13:37:11 GMT -5
I'm so sorry! I haven't had time to think lately. My son's house is getting closer to being sold so the lawyers and the real estate broker are calling. In fact, I have to go see the lawyer today to sign yet more papers. Plus I'm having some pretty bad health problems and Bruce has been having constant migraines daily, which isn't helping any either. So that's why I haven't been able to continue this lately. But I'll keep trying!
Don't worry Cindy. Keep strong ! The Lord is our strenght! I am struggling also, seems like covid left me the "long covid" thing. Sometimes its hard to keep my eyes open and most of the times I feel exhausted with no reason. |
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Post by evafromgreece on Jul 1, 2024 13:55:01 GMT -5
"Whether the report be true or false, we are by this precept of God’s Word forbidden to spread it. The reputations of the Lord’s people should be very precious in our sight, and we should count it shame to help the devil to dishonour the Church and the name of the Lord. We may ourselves one of these dark days need forbearance and silence from our brethren, let us render it cheerfully to those who require it now. Be this our family rule, and our personal bond—SPEAK EVIL OF NO MAN."
When I was following the Bible study plan in order to ready the whole Bible (even though it took me 2 full years), I noticed that God was replying through His Word with the specific chapters I was reading at this day. Sometimes I was late in the plan, but each time the verses was an answer. Now the same is happening. My words are not yet clean, its getting better than before, way better, but I need with the help of our Lord to get rid of evil talking. There is no excuse on this and I desperately need our Lord to help me on this. So please pray for me . |
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Post by Cindy on Jul 2, 2024 11:07:12 GMT -5
Eva, I just read something that might help you. It said the way to get rid of a bad habit was not to concentrate of the bad thing you want to get rid of, but instead to concentrate on something good to replace it with. In this case that something good, reminds me of what my mother used to have me do. She told me that I should always say something nice about everyone, especially if I didn't like them or they didn't like me. Only it has to be true and said with love. Not always easy but a great exercise!
OK, we're now on Verse 3 where Paul continues to list what people will be like during this age. “without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good,” (2 Timothy 3:3) Let's start with "without love" and "unforgiving", since those go together well. Without love has also been translated in other versions as: without natural affection, heartless, lack of normal affection for their families, unfeeling, hardhearted, callous, and inhuman.
"Without natural affection" leads us right into what's going on today: people pretending to be a different sex and "loving" someone that is the same biological sex that they are. I put loving in quotations because they don't really love that other person. They're simply play acting. It's no different than the way little children play house. Only they've brought their playacting to a whole new level. I probably shouldn't call it play acting because that puts a too benign meaning on what they're doing. They know what they're doing. They are fully aware of what sex they really are, and that their partner is. The reason I say they don't really love the other person is simply because they're operating out of a lie. Everything they're doing takes after Satan. Love on the other hand comes from God. They can't truly love their partner because they don't know what love is, because they don't know the truth and don't know God. They can however play the part, and can play the part well! They are also often hateful toward their partners family, since often the family can't accept what's going on. Keep in mind too that another translation of that word is "heartless". You can't be heartless and love someone. Nor can you love someone and be "unfeeling, hardhearted, callous and inhuman". Even the translation of "lack of normal affection for their families" shows these other characteristics.
There's another way to look at this too. While they don't really love anyone, they do hate other people, LOTS of other people. Consider the people who today who clap and celebrate when terrorists torture or kill babies, children, the elderly and even animals. I never, ever thought something like that would happen in this country, but it sure has now. The reason it's happening is because these folks have no love for others, only for themselves. For everyone else they only feel hate.
Now let's look at unforgiving. Other versions translate this word as: implacable, irreconcilable, trucebreakers, uncooperative, unappeasable, and without peace. Implacable means that they're not capable of being appeased; they're merciless, ruthless. Sounds a lot like the folks that cheer on the terrorists doesn't it? Next is irreconcilable. They don't want to get back together with a person that they've decided has done them wrong. They don't want to because they never cared about that person in the first place. Next is "trucebreakers". Someone who breaks a truce, is someone who can't be trusted, they're someone who will lie when they think it serves their purpose. Again we see a characteristic of their father, Satan. Next is Uncooperative. Again this simply shows they want nothing to do with making peace and forgiving another person. The next one is unappeasable. The definition of this word takes us back to another one, "implacable". They can't be satisfied. Nothing that is done or said will satisfy them enough to consider forgiving someone. The final translation is "without peace". Sadly that too is accurate. Without love and forgiveness, you can't have peace within yourself or peace with others. All of these definitions remind me of the terrorists who are even now making war against Israel, and those who applaud them. And they are probably the worst case of people like this, but there are others who may not seem quite as bad, at least not outwardly.
I've noticed that a great many families have been broken up. Not just be divorce, but by the adult children wanting nothing to do with the parents who love them. There are a lot of parents today that are wondering what in the world they did wrong, and what happened to the loving children they had, because those loving children are no longer loving, instead they gradually became filled with hate and lies instead. And now they don't want anything to do with their parents. Another thing I've noticed with people like this is that they also become very self righteous. As far as they're concerned, they can do no wrong.
When we get tangled up with people like that, what are we to do? We're to forgive them, and whenever possible do something nice to help them. If we hear that the need something and we have it, we should get it to them somehow. We should let them know we forgive them and that we are praying for them. We have to let go of the hurt, forgive, and attempt to help them whenever possible; and also tell them we've forgiven them and that we're praying for them. We can't make them reconcile with us, that's all up to them and God. All we can do is our part and leave the rest of it to the Lord.
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Post by evafromgreece on Jul 2, 2024 15:10:55 GMT -5
Regarding the fact that people tend to want more and more and never be satisfied, this is related also with the lust for money.
For example a company seeks to make people “want” their product. So they make people want it , its not a need but they want it because they saw it…
The company- the people behind it- make money and the people who consume they want more and more of something they do not need. Vicious cycle of evil. Humans are played by devil to lust things they do no need and to lose their happiness
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fearnot
Living With Pain
Posts: 8,383
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Post by fearnot on Jul 3, 2024 11:10:25 GMT -5
EVA:
I think they want 'things',
because they are empty for what they need.
They need the true, and fulfilling love, of their Creator,
who loved them so much, He died for them....
But they don't and won't accept that love,
so they see some shiny thing...
and think, if they only had that
they would be happy...
Finally they get it,
and it 'seems' like
that does the 'trick',
they are 'happy'...or awhile!
Only it is a 'trick'
actually from Satan...
and the filling up,
does not last,
( because it is not true love'
it is not love at all...
and they discover, they are still empty.
But then they see something else,
some other 'thing'...
For what will it profit a man
if he gains the whole world
and forfeits his soul?
Or what shall a man give
in return for his soul?
Matthew 16:26
And
For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evils.
It is through this craving
that some have wandered away from the faith
and pierced themselves with many pangs.
1 Timothy 6:10
Plus
Riches do not profit in the day of wrath,
but righteousness delivers from death.
Proverbs 11:4
And
“Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth,
where moth and rust destroy
and where thieves break in and steal,
but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven,
where neither moth nor rust destroys
and where thieves do not break in and steal.
For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.
Matthew 6:19-21
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Post by Cindy on Jul 4, 2024 11:00:47 GMT -5
My back and legs are really hurting today, I'm going to have to try and do the next part tomorrow, God willing. Sorry about that....
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Post by Cindy on Jul 5, 2024 10:40:47 GMT -5
“without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good,” (2 Timothy 3:3)
Before we go to the next two, I'd like to add something that I think I forgot on the last one. "Without love" or "without natural affection" is all about Romans 1:26-32. That kind of life is accepted as a way of life, just as it has been in the world today. The gay crowd, sex out of bounds from God’s limits, is accepted by much of society. We have seen God's Word proven true. Those who don't obey God go from bad to worse and celebrate everything that's the opposite of what God commands. Or another way of saying it is that they celebrate and live Satan's ways.
The next two characteristics are "slanderous" and "without self control". Let's first look at other ways the word "slanderous" is translated: "false accusers, trucebreakers, troublemakers, malicious gossips, and they will tell lies about people." One thing I find very interesting about it is what the word is in the original language: "diaboloi" which is also the term for Satan in Hebrew or Devil in Greek. These people are out to hurt others. It might be so they can make themselves look good or make themselves feel better, or any number of other reasons. But they won't be telling little white lies (also a sin) but these will be big lies that will cause a lot of hurt. It brings to mind on line bullying, where kids try and get other kids to kill themselves. Then comes "without self control" which has also been translated as: "intemperate, (which means excessive, immoderate, inordinate, overindulgent, unrestrained, untempered, drunken; gluttonous) incontinent (lacking self-restraint), of unsubdued passions, profligates (completely given up to dissipation and licentiousness), intemperate and loose in morals and conduct, uncontrolled, degenerate, they will not control what they say and do, nor allow anyone to control them." It means “no power” or “restraint” over oneself. Senseless killings and atrocious sex crimes, and the horrible things the terrorists have been doing give evidence to this today.All of which gives a very good description of what we see in people that are not saved today. They also point to the Romans 1:26-32 way of life. (I'll post those scriptures at the end.)
Remember that verse 1 says: “But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days.” (2 Timothy 3:1) The word "terrible" in verse 1 means “difficult,” “hard to deal with,” or “dangerous.” It is the same Greek word used to describe the demoniac in Matthew 8:28 and translated either: “exceedingly fierce, so violent, exceedingly violent, or exceedingly dangerous."
Ok, here's the scriptures from Romans which also describes things today:
“Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion. Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done. They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; they are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless. Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.” (Romans 1:26–32)
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Post by evafromgreece on Jul 5, 2024 15:19:29 GMT -5
“It may be that the LORD will see my distress and repay me with good for the cursing I am receiving today.”” (2 Samuel 16:9–12)
Also to add that we tend to forget -at least I do- that God turns trials into blessings. A lot of times I found my self think "this is why God allowed this to happen"... |
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Post by evafromgreece on Jul 5, 2024 15:51:06 GMT -5
Eva, I just read something that might help you. It said the way to get rid of a bad habit was not to concentrate of the bad thing you want to get rid of, but instead to concentrate on something good to replace it with. In this case that something good, reminds me of what my mother used to have me do. She told me that I should always say something nice about everyone, especially if I didn't like them or they didn't like me. Only it has to be true and said with love. Not always easy but a great exercise!
OK, we're now on Verse 3 where Paul continues to list what people will be like during this age. “without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good,” (2 Timothy 3:3) Let's start with "without love" and "unforgiving", since those go together well. Without love has also been translated in other versions as: without natural affection, heartless, lack of normal affection for their families, unfeeling, hardhearted, callous, and inhuman.
"Without natural affection" leads us right into what's going on today: people pretending to be a different sex and "loving" someone that is the same biological sex that they are. I put loving in quotations because they don't really love that other person. They're simply play acting. It's no different than the way little children play house. Only they've brought their playacting to a whole new level. I probably shouldn't call it play acting because that puts a too benign meaning on what they're doing. They know what they're doing. They are fully aware of what sex they really are, and that their partner is. The reason I say they don't really love the other person is simply because they're operating out of a lie. Everything they're doing takes after Satan. Love on the other hand comes from God. They can't truly love their partner because they don't know what love is, because they don't know the truth and don't know God. They can however play the part, and can play the part well! They are also often hateful toward their partners family, since often the family can't accept what's going on. Keep in mind too that another translation of that word is "heartless". You can't be heartless and love someone. Nor can you love someone and be "unfeeling, hardhearted, callous and inhuman". Even the translation of "lack of normal affection for their families" shows these other characteristics.
I will keep this advice Cindy and I will apply this. Thank you Basically while I was reading this post, I was thinking about the laws of my country. If this was posted in a Greek website, explaining this the biblical way, it would be considered hate speech and racist. Even by just saying in public that being with a person of the same sex is not natural, it would be considered against the anti racist law, even if you do not have any intention to harm these people. Do you have these kind of laws in US ? |
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